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(Huffington Post)   Influential Catholic Priest: "Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 277
    More: Sick, Father Benedict Groeschel, Catholic priest, sex crimes, National Catholic Register, Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Archdiocese of New York  
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9801 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 12:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 01:55:37 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Here's the thing. None of those moral codes couldn't have been created without all the supernatural trappings involved. There are all social constructs invented by man for man to create functional societies. Problem with religion is all the baggage that comes with it that has been used not to enforce moral codes, but to tyrannize people well beyond the boundaries of any simple morality. Granted that's not the only problem with it, but most of the problems in one way or another come back to creating excuses to wield unreasonable power over other people.

See, that's always been the core purpose of organized religion. Power. People who fail to see that are willfully obtuse, tragically naive, or just simply ignorant of history.

But since no moral code requires supernatural thinking to be valid and conducive to civilization, then why bother tacking on the useless and potentially abusive cargo?

And while religion certainly has ties to philosophy, and philosophy was certainly the beginning of scientific thought, it is no longer needed. Superstition might have seeded the roots of rational thinking as mankind first tried to comprehend the workings of nature, it was certainly our first adolescent attempt at doing so, but we've grown beyond it and have blossomed into the tree of science and reason which actually get results.

See, I won't deny that religion did serve a function, but I state clearly that we have better tools now, and it has become obsolete, so much so that it now serves all too often as an impediment to progress rather than a catalyst.

Take for instance stem cell research. A possible panacea of medical knowledge that could ultimately save inestimable lives. Held back and fought time and again by theistic thinking and sentiment.

I would ask you what's better, using the research to find cures for disease, or allowing a family member to die of a possibly curable disease because "It's god's will."


Nicely said.

Most of the laws in Leviticus actually make a great deal of sense IF you recall they were formalized among a nomadic people attempting to survive in a land of agricultural cultures. And among a warrior culture trying to survive amidst city-states that were much better armed and equipped than the nomads. For instance, nomads need to maximize their birth rate, because agricultural people can have more kids and raise more of them to adulthood--therefore, all sexual relations must be set up to increase the people in the tribe. Hence, no gay sex (no babies), no abortion (kills babies), men can have multiple wives but no adultery (lets one man keep several women pregnant all the time). A lot of the other laws are similar.

Today, of course, we don't need to do that; but as long as people read the Bible for its prose, we're going to keep having dumb arguments about abortion and homosexuality.
 
2012-08-30 01:56:34 AM  

libranoelrose: Is this the thread about assholes?


Yes, goodness it is.
 
2012-08-30 01:57:41 AM  

dbubb: Agent Smiths Laugh: Agent Smiths Laugh

Ok, we're actually much closer than I first might have thougt.


All's fair. Not like you could've known the contents of my mind until I said something.

jso2897: cookiefleck: jso2897: cookiefleck: I've said it before.. all FARK atheists seem really miserable. Like their life goal is to prove someone wrong.

Sounds like you are pretty selective in who you talk to and base your opinions on. Something I've noticed about Fark is that like attracts like. The extremist assholes all end up arguing with each other, and characterizing the "other side" as being the (similar to themselves) assholes they choose to talk to.

You being human and not the grand poobah of knowledge should also understand there's another side to faith.

I have no opinions about what "sides" faith possesses. As far as I am concerned, you can believe whatever you want - and if you have the decency to keep it to yourself, and not try to force it on me, we'll get along famously.


That is precisely, functionally, how I operate. I don't care, however, if they try to share their beliefs. It can be interesting to listen to sometimes. I just care if they try to force me to conform to them in whatever way.

I may think a religious person deluded and irrational, but as long as they do not harm others with it, they can have at it. Cross that line though, and I will react caustically.

It's not like I'm not deluded and irrational about some things. Hell, I like broccoli.

I just don't force others to eat it.
 
2012-08-30 01:59:14 AM  

cookiefleck: libranoelrose: Is this the thread about assholes?

Yes, goodness it is.


I figured I could post that in either of the two blurry links I am seeing through the beer goggles and it would be correct. :P*
 
2012-08-30 02:00:52 AM  
Abox:

I've always said closet gays never know what's going to give them away; same goes for closet pedophiles apparently. 


Pedophilia:

pedophilia (usually uncountable; plural pedophilias)

Noun:

1. Sexual or erotic feelings or desires directed by adults and late adolescents towards children; particularly, in psychiatry, a paraphilia consisting of a primary adult sexual attraction to prepubescent children. [from 20th c.]

2. Sexual acts committed by adults with prepubescent children.


Puberty:

Noun

puberty (uncountable)

1. the age at which a person is first capable of sexual reproduction


In this case it's the definition is easy to prove: have the "14, 16, 18" year old guy jerk off into a beaker, then put some of the ejaculate under a microscope and look for "tadpoles." If there are sperm swimming around then the priest cannot engage in pedophilia with him. (Unless the priest is the prepube, but I think canon law rules that out in the first place.)

It's easy to know what you're talking about once you know what the words you use mean.
 
2012-08-30 02:02:40 AM  

namegoeshere: Pressed for clarification, the New York State-based religious leader explained that kids looking for father figures might be drawn to priests to fill a hole.

THEY DIDN'T MEAN LITERALLY!


Dear god. Hot tea in my nose and all over my laptop.
That was such a poor choice of words, or was it?
 
2012-08-30 02:02:47 AM  

libranoelrose: cookiefleck: libranoelrose: Is this the thread about assholes?

Yes, goodness it is.

I figured I could post that in either of the two blurry links I am seeing through the beer goggles and it would be correct. :P*


Go to bed, sweetheart.
 
2012-08-30 02:06:19 AM  

libranoelrose: Is this the thread about assholes?


Careful. There was a time that questions like that would summon Rugbyjock.

Gyrfalcon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Here's the thing. None of those moral codes couldn't have been created without all the supernatural trappings involved. There are all social constructs invented by man for man to create functional societies. Problem with religion is all the baggage that comes with it that has been used not to enforce moral codes, but to tyrannize people well beyond the boundaries of any simple morality. Granted that's not the only problem with it, but most of the problems in one way or another come back to creating excuses to wield unreasonable power over other people.

See, that's always been the core purpose of organized religion. Power. People who fail to see that are willfully obtuse, tragically naive, or just simply ignorant of history.

But since no moral code requires supernatural thinking to be valid and conducive to civilization, then why bother tacking on the useless and potentially abusive cargo?

And while religion certainly has ties to philosophy, and philosophy was certainly the beginning of scientific thought, it is no longer needed. Superstition might have seeded the roots of rational thinking as mankind first tried to comprehend the workings of nature, it was certainly our first adolescent attempt at doing so, but we've grown beyond it and have blossomed into the tree of science and reason which actually get results.

See, I won't deny that religion did serve a function, but I state clearly that we have better tools now, and it has become obsolete, so much so that it now serves all too often as an impediment to progress rather than a catalyst.

Take for instance stem cell research. A possible panacea of medical knowledge that could ultimately save inestimable lives. Held back and fought time and again by theistic thinking and sentiment.

I would ask you what's better, using the research to find cures for disease, or allowing a family member to die of a possibly curable disease because "It's god's will."

Nicely said.

Most of the laws in Leviticu ...


Thanks. In hindsight I would correct some poor composition in it, but I figure I got my point across regardless of shabby writing.

Besides, I'm drunk.
 
2012-08-30 02:08:32 AM  

AbbeySomeone: namegoeshere: Pressed for clarification, the New York State-based religious leader explained that kids looking for father figures might be drawn to priests to fill a hole.

THEY DIDN'T MEAN LITERALLY!

Dear god. Hot tea in my nose and all over my laptop.
That was such a poor choice of words, or was it?


Ouch.

I almost have to think it was deliberate, or the most artful Freudian slip of the year.
 
2012-08-30 02:10:06 AM  

The One True TheDavid: The My Little Pony Killer: St_Francis_P: The My Little Pony Killer: Any Fark Christians here to speak out against this guy? No?

Would you settle for an agnostic saint?

Good enough for me. I'm just noting that this is a really good thread for the usual "I'm a Christian, but this guy totally disgusts me" crowd to make an appearance.

I'm an atheist, and I don't give a damn. In the first place it is possible that "[in a] lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer." I seduced a few older men when I was a teenager; they weren't Catholic priests but then I moved in a very non-Catholic world. And whatever grave hormonal disorders some Farkers might suffer from, most of us guys stopped being little boys before we got to be "14. 16, [or] 18."

Should priests be mindful of their vows and not partake with a sexually developed person of either sex, regardless of who's the seducer? Yes, of course: vows, like other promises, should be kept whever possible; if you don't mean to keep it or can't try very hard to then don't make the vow. But I'm not going to get very upset about "abuse" of somebody who in most of the world is old enough to get married and in most cases is mature enough to knock females up.

If it's okay for your average "14, 16, 18" year guy old to consensually fark a buxom "hottie" teacher then it's also okay for him to consensually get it on with a Catholic priest. Even if the priest is male too.


While I agree with you about teenage boys being horny and capable of consent, a Priest is also capable of a tremendous mind f*cking as well. It does seem that most of the boys that are raped by these religious figures are 10 and under. That is a whole different ball game.
 
2012-08-30 02:15:53 AM  
Heretic says what?

4.bp.blogspot.com

/God Inc. needs new management
 
2012-08-30 02:17:08 AM  
One of PSUs old pedophiles, Lasaga, made this statement to the cops once they finally stopped hom and all his years of stalling in court and shenanigans to avoid prison had reached their end.

``I never understood until recently, after a year and a half of therapy, that my letting the child do what the child wanted to do was my desire to relive my own adolescence,''
 
2012-08-30 02:17:18 AM  

Bocasio: Heretic says what?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x225]

/God Inc. needs new management


BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
 
2012-08-30 02:19:40 AM  
I. was. SO. hoping. this. would. be. a. stupid. exaggeration. by. subby.
But no, he really said that.
 
2012-08-30 02:20:03 AM  
I don't know if it acceptable to plug a blog on fark, but....

the majority of a/theist tennis matches on Fark all have one thing in common and that is the old testament. The frustration i get from reading this fallacious banter has bothered me so much, I have actually put down my fly rod and biatched to nobody on the intertubes. So far, I have only attacked one side; there is more to come. Link
 
2012-08-30 02:22:45 AM  

mikaloyd: One of PSUs old pedophiles, Lasaga, made this statement to the cops once they finally stopped hom and all his years of stalling in court and shenanigans to avoid prison had reached their end.

``I never understood until recently, after a year and a half of therapy, that my letting the child do what the child wanted to do was my desire to relive my own adolescence,''


Even that's a load of crap.

He was horny and he acted on it with a child. End of story.
 
2012-08-30 02:28:20 AM  

cookiefleck: libranoelrose: cookiefleck: libranoelrose: Is this the thread about assholes?

Yes, goodness it is.

I figured I could post that in either of the two blurry links I am seeing through the beer goggles and it would be correct. :P*

Go to bed, sweetheart.


Hell no!

I just got off work a few hours ago!
 
2012-08-30 02:31:30 AM  
The only reason the Catholic church gets away with this sort of thing is because the people who tithe enable it. Quit supporting and excusing their behavior, quit giving them money, and they'll correct the problem. I might be wrong about this, but I think they care more about money than they do farking little boys.

/"Can't have morality without church!" my ass
//If that's the case, I don't want your farking morality
 
2012-08-30 02:36:38 AM  
Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer.

Lord forbid the priest take the high road.
 
2012-08-30 02:48:15 AM  
Kids come on to old guys all the time.

They're dangerous as f*ck, actually.

/just say no.
 
2012-08-30 02:54:18 AM  

knightmike: Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer.

Lord forbid the priest take the high road.


Spare the rod?
 
2012-08-30 02:54:43 AM  
david_gaithersburg

Yes, because there are absolute NO republicans in NY or the northeast.
But that is beside the point. The point is most conservatives/GOPers have some nasty beast in the closet that they feed and nurture while they think no one is looking no matter where they happen to live. SO, basically, yes.
 
2012-08-30 02:54:54 AM  

knightmike: Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer.

Lord forbid the priest take the high road.


i think they prefer taking the dirt road
 
2012-08-30 03:09:19 AM  
www.dezinfo.net 
Is/was he a member of the Archdiocesan Youth Commission?
 
2012-08-30 03:14:09 AM  
Has anyone pointed out that his quotes could just as easily been said by a NAMBLA spokesman? That's profoundly creepy.

Like hearing Neil deGrassie Tyson talking about "legitimate rape".

Sounds like probable cause for an investigation to me...
 
2012-08-30 03:15:32 AM  

cookiefleck: I've said it before.. all FARK atheists seem really miserable. Like their life goal is to prove someone wrong.


Tch. I'd say that was useless bait, but a ton of people bit.

Gyrfalcon: The second thing that must be done is equally intensive and mandatory treatment for the victims. As children, they are more amenable to change, and yet right now, they get the same treatment as their offenders, ironically. "Let their parents take them home and get them help," knowing it is unlikely ever to happen. Instead, kids who are victims MUST receive treatment, on the public dime if necessary, and in their homes or a separate school location. This cannot be an option, or brushed aside with the idea that they're so young, they'll get over it. They won't, and a certain percentage will go on to commit the same kinds of crimes. (And the ones who don't offend will still carry the guilt and scars for the remainder of their lives)


This (and everything around it) is FAR more interesting and productive. Is there much public discussion of treatment of victims right now? Beyond the old "color angry pictures at a shrink's office" type thing?
 
2012-08-30 03:22:42 AM  

grinnel: I don't know if it acceptable to plug a blog on fark, but....

the majority of a/theist tennis matches on Fark all have one thing in common and that is the old testament. The frustration i get from reading this fallacious banter has bothered me so much, I have actually put down my fly rod and biatched to nobody on the intertubes. So far, I have only attacked one side; there is more to come. Link


I was with you up to this: "The theory of evolution is to all intents and purposes universally accepted."

I don't think something is (more or less) universally accepted when there are policy changes and challenges currently underway RIGHT NOW to promote an entirely different theory. I can accept the idea that quite a few Christians (and Catholics) think other than they speak. This happens all the time (which brings me to a bunch of great Russian jokes). But when one sees actual political effect, then I don't think you can fairly state that it doesn't count.
 
2012-08-30 03:31:55 AM  
Well, this is swell.
Watched the RNC and now this.

It's definitely time to go to bed and let my mind recover from evil of this magnitude.
Thank you, and I did build that may GOD BLESS AMERICA!
 
2012-08-30 03:33:30 AM  
I'm uncomfortable with pretending that such a thing is impossible. It probably has happened that way at least once. Problem is, in context it's victim blaming. The Catholic Church has had hundreds of these scandals, and most of the time they're by priests who are themselves repeat offenders.

I get circling the wagons and defending your own from the outside. But there comes a point when you have to acknowledge that your organization has deep-seated issues that demand a serious internal response. You can always tell when they're being half-hearted about it when all their public statements seem not to get why everyone is mad. Like this one.
 
2012-08-30 03:34:47 AM  

Aidan:
I don't think something is (more or less) universally accepted when there are policy changes and challenges currently underway RIGHT NOW to promote an entirely different theory


Those aren't members of the real Group A, that's Group B.
 
2012-08-30 03:39:06 AM  

scottydoesntknow: In a recent interview with the National Catholic Register, Father Benedict Groeschel, of the conservative Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, said that teens act as seducers in some sexual abuse cases involving priests.

Something about Jesus in the desert, not giving into temptation, etc.


I seem to recall in some other threads some links to articles about pedophilia that said a lot of pedophiles talk about teens (or even younger children) "seducing" them. A delusion that children you're sexually attracted to are sexually attracted to YOU and are trying to get you to have sex with them sees to be part of pedophilia.
 
2012-08-30 03:58:36 AM  

cookiefleck: Arumat: cookiefleck: I've said it before.. all FARK atheists seem really miserable. Like their life goal is to prove someone wrong.

We're not miserable because our life goal is to prove someone wrong. We're miserable because no matter how many times we prove people wrong, they stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALAICAN'THEARYOU!".

Is it your job to prove someone wrong? Seriously, you're doing the very thing you hate bout your interpretation of Christianity


I'll admit he was probably trolling, so this is the last thing I'll say on the matter.
If I'm walking along, and see someone waving a sign that says "1+2=4" and advocating that the law should reflect their belief, am I not morally obligated to show them that they are wrong? Or would it be better to allow them to push to get their law passed, allow the law to do whatever damage it will, and then go through all the annoyance of getting it repealed?
 
2012-08-30 04:10:50 AM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Thanks. In hindsight I would correct some poor composition in it, but I figure I got my point across regardless of shabby writing.

Besides, I'm drunk.


You are astonishingly coherent and literate for being drunk. In the non-drunk real world, what are you, a PhD in Theology or something?

Seriously. I'd hate to be the undergrad who crosses minds with you on a good day.
 
2012-08-30 04:22:12 AM  
How could someone with a beard that cool be such a dumb arsehole?
 
2012-08-30 04:22:46 AM  

Tarheel_Madness: The My Little Pony Killer: Any Fark Christians here to speak out against this guy? No?

Even Jesus was betrayed by his own people, friend-o. The world is filled with ugly people, some hide behind politics, some shields and guns, and some behind a holy text. Christianity, Islam, paganism...they all have people that make the faith look bad. Is it right that the church hasn't taken a stronger stand against it? No, it's disgusting. But they don't represent all Christians, just like bin Laden didn't represent all Muslims.

/sad hearing about the abuse of children
//should there be a death penalty for it?


Actually, I'm pretty sure the "mother church" advertises itself as the representative of all "true Christians".
 
2012-08-30 04:23:23 AM  
Oh yeah, those hot priests. I bet the boys that don't get any are pleasuring themselves at night thinking about the sweet, sweet clergymen they saw during the day.

img1.fark.net, although with the right preparations.....

www.smbc-comics.com

Also, see: Link
 
2012-08-30 04:26:26 AM  

Aidan: I don't think something is (more or less) universally accepted when there are policy changes and challenges currently underway RIGHT NOW to promote an entirely different theory


Can you point me in the direction of this new theory? I have not yet ben educated on such matters.
-Thanks
 
2012-08-30 04:27:53 AM  

ciberido: scottydoesntknow: In a recent interview with the National Catholic Register, Father Benedict Groeschel, of the conservative Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, said that teens act as seducers in some sexual abuse cases involving priests.

Something about Jesus in the desert, not giving into temptation, etc.

I seem to recall in some other threads some links to articles about pedophilia that said a lot of pedophiles talk about teens (or even younger children) "seducing" them. A delusion that children you're sexually attracted to are sexually attracted to YOU and are trying to get you to have sex with them sees to be part of pedophilia.


This. I'm not sure if it's fantasy, rationalization, or something else. But I think someone who makes this claim should get life in prison - they are incapable either of resisting a child's "advances" or of seeing reality.
It's also pretty rare that someone will admit they used a kid as a sex toy, and the ones that do want to stay locked up.
 
2012-08-30 04:47:06 AM  

JerkyMeat: david_gaithersburg

Yes, because there are absolute NO republicans in NY or the northeast.
But that is beside the point. The point is most conservatives/GOPers have some nasty beast in the closet that they feed and nurture while they think no one is looking no matter where they happen to live. SO, basically, yes.


When "people" post like this is it because they have lost their ability to quote, or are they just not able to use the quote function?
 
2012-08-30 04:49:41 AM  
So, the priest is an Akin supporter?
 
2012-08-30 04:58:36 AM  

Generation_D: Times change, pal. We don't condone human slavery, or public floggings, or pubic dismemberment, vivisection or burning as executions any more either.


I think we could make an exception for these guys
 
2012-08-30 05:05:58 AM  
Here's a thread full of condemnations, furious calls for barbaric punishment, dogmatic claims, black-and-white attitudes, and herd thinking -- some of it the evident result of glossing over an entire page of text to find a line to justify it all. The people doing this are apparently atheists.

The interview itself is characterized by open-mindedness, reluctance to condemn, objectivity, forgoing of moral absolutes, and willingness to make concessions to human nature. This person is a Catholic priest.

It's quite a spectacle to see secular humanism transformed into the demon it was conceived to fight. Friedrich Nietzsche was right.
 
2012-08-30 05:10:57 AM  
This headline reminded me that my new memory needs settings.
 
2012-08-30 05:24:11 AM  
Lol FTA: "Fill a hole."

In Catholicism's defense, my Baptist children's minister is doin 20 for masturbating with kids.

In Christianity's defense,
 
2012-08-30 05:32:34 AM  
This guys sounds like he really "gets it" and that the catholic church is on the road to recovery, by filling one hole at a time.
 
2012-08-30 05:35:43 AM  

cookiefleck: Arumat: cookiefleck: I've said it before.. all FARK atheists seem really miserable. Like their life goal is to prove someone wrong.

We're not miserable because our life goal is to prove someone wrong. We're miserable because no matter how many times we prove people wrong, they stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALAICAN'THEARYOU!".

Is it your job to prove someone wrong? Seriously, you're doing the very thing you hate bout your interpretation of Christianity


Both sides are bad so become Catholic?
 
2012-08-30 05:40:54 AM  
Before I even read this thread, I'd like to offer this comment.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
*inhale*
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK


YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
 
2012-08-30 05:53:33 AM  

Coco LaFemme: Wall_of_Doodoo: Anybody else feeling kinda stompy and punchy right now?

Stompy, punchy, stabby, shooty, drowny, poisony, and electrocutey, actually. This is but one reason why I'm ever so glad I have nothing to do with the Catholic Church anymore.


Reading the thread now. I'm sure you're all impressed.

But this. Had I any wits about me concerning such matters, I'd have said all the things Ms.Coco said.

I especially liked poisony.
 
2012-08-30 05:54:40 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Any Fark Christians here to speak out against this guy? No?


Yo!

Sorry... running late. East Coast time, so I was sleeping.

WHAT THE FARK?

Uhm, someone needs to tell this genius that when Jesus said "love the children", he did not mean in that kind of manner.

/local Roman Catholic parish can't figure out why I stopped attending and donating time/money
//printing a copy of this article and returning it to them in my response
///found another parish, not RC, but good people who don't feel that their faith is the only option, or that it's a shield to justify their hypocrisy.
 
2012-08-30 06:00:53 AM  

LewDux: "If you go back 10 or 15 years ago with different sexual difficulties - except for rape or violence - it was very rarely brought as a civil crime. Nobody thought of it that way... And I'm inclined to think, on [a priest's] first offense, they should not go to jail because their intention was not committing a crime."


Now I have you farkied as blue3 "bad painting restoration jesus says have a seat over there"

Thanks. I needed that.
 
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