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(Nature)   Calorie restriction doesn't improve lifespan. Probably. It's not clear. What do we look like, scientists?   (nature.com) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, calorie restriction, gene expression, nematodes, sucrose, fish oils, zygosity, calories, stress response  
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1153 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Aug 2012 at 7:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-29 05:43:52 PM  
25 years to learn that eating less calories does not equal better for you? They could have either asked one of us resident nutrition experts on Fark, or just thought about it for a moment.
 
2012-08-29 07:15:35 PM  
I would love to see the metrics for the speed and magnitude of this story going viral in the online, self-diagnosed Fatbromyalgia communities.
 
2012-08-29 07:27:12 PM  
Gee, I wonder who this thread might be baiting.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

Or did he finally get a timeout?
 
2012-08-29 07:31:32 PM  
"When we began these studies, the dogma was that a calorie is a calorie," Ingram says. "I think it's clear that the types of calories the monkeys ate made a profound difference."


What? Is this guy an idiot? No one has ever said "a calorie is a calorie" is true when it comes to NUTRITION. People say that when referring to weight loss, not lifespan and general health.

they fed the control group a huge amount of sugar, and they're shocked that they didn't get the same amount of nutrients as the other group. what the hell.
 
2012-08-29 07:33:22 PM  
I figure I'll live longer if I don't worry about contradictory reports on what causes one to live longer or shorter lives, and just do what I enjoy so what time I have is worthwhile.

/Drinker
//Very occasional smoker (pipes, not cigarettes)
///In all things moderation, including moderation itself
 
2012-08-29 07:37:52 PM  
You mean I should eat just enough? not to much or to little? I should eat a balanced diet too?

THANKS SCIENCE! I COULD NEVER HAVE FIGURED THAT OUT!
 
2012-08-29 07:38:52 PM  
Whatever, I'm getting cheese fries.
 
2012-08-29 07:39:52 PM  
No, I just feels like it does.
 
2012-08-29 07:41:06 PM  

fluffy2097: You mean I should eat just enough? not to much or to little? I should eat a balanced diet too?

THANKS SCIENCE! I COULD NEVER HAVE FIGURED THAT OUT!


Realistically, most people couldn't and won't believe the science either. What they want is to be able eat whatever, whenever and take a pill to fix their lardashes.
 
2012-08-29 07:58:29 PM  

natazha: Realistically, most people couldn't and won't believe the science either. What they want is to be able eat whatever, whenever and take a pill to fix their lardashes.


Well, I want them to have that too. There would be a dramatic increase in the sexable population.

I vaguely thought about doing the reduced calorie thing in college, but it just seemed like a completely miserable way to live. Always hungry, no beer, ect.

What I dont understand is why they even bothered with the study in the first place with the animals on such different diets. That seems like a pretty big variable.
 
2012-08-29 08:02:48 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: natazha: Realistically, most people couldn't and won't believe the science either. What they want is to be able eat whatever, whenever and take a pill to fix their lardashes.

Well, I want them to have that too. There would be a dramatic increase in the sexable population.

I vaguely thought about doing the reduced calorie thing in college, but it just seemed like a completely miserable way to live. Always hungry, no beer, ect.

What I dont understand is why they even bothered with the study in the first place with the animals on such different diets. That seems like a pretty big variable.


I don't think they did. There were 2 different studies going on that had radically different diets between them, but I think within each study the diets were similar, just less for the experimental groups. Unless I mis-read.
 
2012-08-29 08:06:02 PM  

MrJesus: Gee, I wonder who this thread might be baiting.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

Or did he finally get a timeout?


Subby here. No idea who you're talking about. I just chuckled because, when talking about humans, the tone took a shift towards, "We have no idea." Nature is funny sometimes.

/A greenlight? For me?
//Be gentle. It's been a while.
 
2012-08-29 08:15:09 PM  

MrJesus: Gee, I wonder who this thread might be baiting.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

Or did he finally get a timeout?


I think you need to go on a Fark reduction diet. You'll live longer. Join me, do not be afraid.
 
2012-08-29 08:16:16 PM  
MrJesus:

Gee, I wonder who this thread might be baiting.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

Or did he finally get a timeout?


You mean the guy who shows up in every space thread to scream how (insert space-related engineering problem) is impossible, yet alters his life in hopes of some biological system benefit that doesn't even have a coherent theory behind it?

I don't expect he'll post.
 
2012-08-29 08:17:15 PM  
Well I'll be darned!
 
2012-08-29 08:27:22 PM  
It may or may not improve lifespan but it certainly improves the quality of life.
 
2012-08-29 08:29:56 PM  
Unlike the engineering problems of space exploration, the problem with longevity research is much the same as cancer research... You could almost substitute the one term for the other in this comic:

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-29 08:34:21 PM  

traylor: It may or may not improve lifespan but it certainly improves the quality of life.


If severely limiting my food intake "improves" my "quality" of life, I'll pass. No beer, no Bacon, no steak, no ice cream, &c. Fark that. Moderation is OK, gastronomic masochism is not.
 
2012-08-29 08:40:43 PM  

maxheck: yet alters his life in hopes of some biological system benefit that doesn't even have a coherent theory behind it?


Who says I do any such thing? The amount of conjecture you guys have about me is ... actually kind of cool. Now if only you could muster as much energy to analyze your own preconceptions, we might get a dialogue going.
 
2012-08-29 08:58:44 PM  
Quantum Apostrophe:

maxheck: yet alters his life in hopes of some biological system benefit that doesn't even have a coherent theory behind it?

Who says I do any such thing? The amount of conjecture you guys have about me is ... actually kind of cool. Now if only you could muster as much energy to analyze your own preconceptions, we might get a dialogue going.


It seems you recently removed the bit from your publicly available profile where you were practicing caloric restriction as part of your longevity nuttery.

One wonders how recently...
 
2012-08-29 09:03:18 PM  
Captivity kills equally ?
 
2012-08-29 09:23:08 PM  

maxheck: Quantum Apostrophe:

maxheck: yet alters his life in hopes of some biological system benefit that doesn't even have a coherent theory behind it?

Who says I do any such thing? The amount of conjecture you guys have about me is ... actually kind of cool. Now if only you could muster as much energy to analyze your own preconceptions, we might get a dialogue going.

It seems you recently removed the bit from your publicly available profile where you were practicing caloric restriction as part of your longevity nuttery.

One wonders how recently...


My profile has said:

" It's about caloric restriction. Not my favorite life extension strategy; I *like* eating, and I can eat an impressive amount of crap, too. (new window)"

For several YEARS now. Well, except the bolding. I put that there in case you're slow to catch on. I didn't SAY you are slow, just that IN CASE you are slow.

But nice try at trying to find a flaw in my arguments.

I really expected more from you guys.

I'm very sad now. Here I thought you guys had organized yourselves into an anti-Quantum resistance movement.

One imagines a meeting of scrawny, sickly-pale pimply uber-dorks congregating in some lonely basement with space posters everywhere... Crying softly into your neckbeards while clutching your copy of The Millennial Project, because the bad bad man made fun or your sci-fi baloney. 

One further imagines the outcome of such a meeting, that all you need to do is believe harder to make the space Santa Claus appear.
 
2012-08-29 09:51:55 PM  

generalDisdain: I would love to see the metrics for the speed and magnitude of this story going viral in the online, self-diagnosed Fatbromyalgia communities.


You're way too late. This exploded all over the high-fat, low-carb Atkinish/Paleo blogs and forums the moment it came out. I've been reading about it all day.

Quantum Apostrophe: Who says I do any such thing? The amount of conjecture you guys have about me is ... actually kind of cool. Now if only you could muster as much energy to analyze your own preconceptions, we might get a dialogue going.

I'm very sad now. Here I thought you guys had organized yourselves into an anti-Quantum resistance movement.


Okay, I must be missing part of the story, 'cuz I didn't realize there was an anti-QA quora on Fark.

One imagines a meeting of scrawny, sickly-pale pimply uber-dorks congregating in some lonely basement with space posters everywhere... Crying softly into your neckbeards while clutching your copy of The Millennial Project, because the bad bad man made fun or your sci-fi baloney. 

One further imagines the outcome of such a meeting, that all you need to do is believe harder to make the space Santa Claus appear.


STOP MIXING MEMES!!! THIS BELONGS OVER ON THE SPACE ELEVATOR THREAD!!!

i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-08-29 10:34:38 PM  
If clogged arteries, a ruined liver, and generally overdivided cells don't kill you, the vast amount of chemicals in the environment will, man-made or otherwise. Hell, the stray cosmic ray that killed you probably already struck.

Best just to enjoy that pizza and know the guy next to you, who ate nothing but trail mix and water and lived another 10 years longer, died all the same.
 
2012-08-29 10:57:28 PM  

ThreadSinger: If clogged arteries, a ruined liver, and generally overdivided cells don't kill you, the vast amount of chemicals in the environment will, man-made or otherwise. Hell, the stray cosmic ray that killed you probably already struck.

Best just to enjoy that pizza and know the guy next to you, who ate nothing but trail mix and water and lived another 10 years longer, died all the same.


Eating unhealthy food (or too much food) makes what life you get far worse.

Yeah, other people get to indulge in pizza and beer on weekends, but I don't find myself wheezing when I have to walk from my parking space to my office, and I don't find myself in a sugar coma at 3:00 every day. The high I get from a brief workout is more fun than the high one gets from sugar, and I feel better between highs. Eating for pleasure tends to result in feeling far, far worse when you haven't had your fix.

That's another thing about food, too. The less you make a habit of eating, the less you feel hungry. (Obviously, there are limits to this, but the limits are far below what any overweight person thinks they are.) Being free of junk food is like being free of caffeine; you don't have a extra need ditating how you live your life.


Indulging in junk food only temporarily improves your quality of life. Ditching (or just eatng it on rare occasions) it makes you feel better overall.
 
2012-08-29 11:31:55 PM  
Quantum Apostrophe:

I'm very sad now. Here I thought you guys had organized yourselves into an anti-Quantum resistance movement.

One imagines a meeting of scrawny, sickly-pale pimply uber-dorks congregating in some lonely basement with space posters everywhere... Crying softly into your neckbeards while clutching your copy of The Millennial Project, because the bad bad man made fun or your sci-fi baloney.

One further imagines the outcome of such a meeting, that all you need to do is believe harder to make the space Santa Claus appear.


With a plaintive cry of "we won't live long enough to see it happen?"

Seriously, I have to wonder why you piss all over the place in any space thread. Is it taking away from your fantasies of living forever? Is it some sort of religious blasphemy? I mean... Why? What's the harm to you?
 
2012-08-30 12:18:05 AM  
I recall Aubrey de Grey had something to say in his book Ending Aging along the lines of "sure, calorie restriction can add six months to a mouse's life, and it'll add around six months to a human's as well." He called it as totally not worthwhile several years ago.

There is so much more worthwhile health research (and drug R&D incentive reform...) that can be done. Meanwhile, we're stupid not to be harvesting the trillions of terawatts of solar power the sun puts out in addition to what hits the tiny surface of our own dust speck of a planet. Let's build a space mirror factory on the moon, dammit. And use it to power protein-folding supercomputers so we can unravel the chemical mysteries of living forever. And maybe while we're at it build antimatter-producing particle accelerators the size of planetary orbits so we can travel to other stars.
 
2012-08-30 12:46:22 AM  

Christian Bale: "When we began these studies, the dogma was that a calorie is a calorie," Ingram says. "I think it's clear that the types of calories the monkeys ate made a profound difference."


What? Is this guy an idiot? No one has ever said "a calorie is a calorie" is true when it comes to NUTRITION. People say that when referring to weight loss, not lifespan and general health.

they fed the control group a huge amount of sugar, and they're shocked that they didn't get the same amount of nutrients as the other group. what the hell.


Laypersons should never watch either sausage or science being made. It's disturbing.
 
2012-08-30 01:14:07 AM  

ChubbyTiger: traylor: It may or may not improve lifespan but it certainly improves the quality of life.

If severely limiting my food intake "improves" my "quality" of life, I'll pass. No beer, no Bacon, no steak, no ice cream, &c. Fark that. Moderation is OK, gastronomic masochism is not.


you can have all those things, just so far as you don't pig out on them constantly.

hell.. my wife's diet has bacon as an almost ever-present feature and she is loosing weight. weight gain/loss is all about calories in v calories out (and for some people with metabolic disregulations the macros matter)

nutrition is about macros and micros.

you need both.. but both are easy to manage with a modicum of self control. and avoiding items that are really immensely calorie dense - and instead eating something else you like that is really tasty, but more filling.
 
2012-08-30 02:23:59 AM  

Kazan: ChubbyTiger: traylor: It may or may not improve lifespan but it certainly improves the quality of life.

If severely limiting my food intake "improves" my "quality" of life, I'll pass. No beer, no Bacon, no steak, no ice cream, &c. Fark that. Moderation is OK, gastronomic masochism is not.

you can have all those things, just so far as you don't pig out on them constantly.

hell.. my wife's diet has bacon as an almost ever-present feature and she is loosing weight. weight gain/loss is all about calories in v calories out (and for some people with metabolic disregulations the macros matter)

nutrition is about macros and micros.

you need both.. but both are easy to manage with a modicum of self control. and avoiding items that are really immensely calorie dense - and instead eating something else you like that is really tasty, but more filling.


Upon which poor bastard?
 
2012-08-30 03:20:43 AM  
In the UK the BBC science programme Horizon did a show about what diet can do, and covered caloric restriction. It was called Eat, Fast and Live Longer, if you're interested, but the point that made it seem worthwhile to me wasn't the fact that it might extend your life, but that it improves your health and quality of life whilst living. They had a caloric restrictor measure up against the host and the differences were remarkable. Of course that in and of itself is a useless metric because there are a million variables that could be at work there, but the reasoning they put behind the idea of it, suggested ideas of how it might be working, seemed to make sense to me. Are these also out the window? Is any improvement in healthiness down to other factors, or might the diet still play a part there? And why am I asking you? Let me ask Nature.
 
2012-08-30 05:51:05 AM  

maxheck: Quantum Apostrophe:

I'm very sad now. Here I thought you guys had organized yourselves into an anti-Quantum resistance movement.

One imagines a meeting of scrawny, sickly-pale pimply uber-dorks congregating in some lonely basement with space posters everywhere... Crying softly into your neckbeards while clutching your copy of The Millennial Project, because the bad bad man made fun or your sci-fi baloney.

One further imagines the outcome of such a meeting, that all you need to do is believe harder to make the space Santa Claus appear.

With a plaintive cry of "we won't live long enough to see it happen?"

Seriously, I have to wonder why you piss all over the place in any space thread. Is it taking away from your fantasies of living forever? Is it some sort of religious blasphemy? I mean... Why? What's the harm to you?


I have quantums posts highlighted in grey 5 as `dismissive earth bound twat` and give them no further thought.
 
2012-08-30 01:15:54 PM  
Stop it! We're scientists, not people who can examine every variable and phenomenon to determine an accurate understanding of a specific event.
 
2012-08-30 01:18:12 PM  

miniflea: ///In all things moderation, including moderation itself


Ah, but do you moderate your moderation of moderation? That's where it gets tricky...
 
2012-08-30 06:30:05 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: I can eat an impressive amount of crap, too.


Do you really want to advertise that fact?
 
2012-08-31 09:28:21 AM  

treesloth: miniflea: ///In all things moderation, including moderation itself

Ah, but do you moderate your moderation of moderation? That's where it gets tricky...


excess in moderation, not moderation to excess.
 
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