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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   We understand these are difficult times. But please stop stealing the copper cables from our DOT cameras, we kind of need them   (ajc.com) divider line 44
    More: Dumbass, Georgia DOT, Mark McKinnon, Sandy Springs, copper thieves, Fulton County, Channel 2 Action News, Chattahoochee River, cops  
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4497 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2012 at 7:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-08-29 07:45:58 AM  
Someone stole the webpage too.
 
2012-08-29 07:46:12 AM  
They don't really need them.
 
2012-08-29 07:53:03 AM  
subbby, why not hero tag? i hate traffic cameras
 
2012-08-29 07:53:38 AM  
Meth sure does embolden people don't it?

Some clowns managed to steal quite a length of wiring from the transit train outside Seattle. This takes some planning.
 
2012-08-29 07:55:11 AM  
The thefts also cause projects to be delayed, waste taxpayer money and are dangerous to the thieves, McKinnon said

The thefts... are dangerous.

Cu shouldn't thieve, because the thefts are dangerous.
 
2012-08-29 07:57:57 AM  

unholyblackmage: subbby, why not hero tag? i hate traffic cameras


These are not red light or speed cameras, these are the ones they use to monitor traffic.
 
2012-08-29 08:00:01 AM  

unholyblackmage: subbby, why not hero tag? i hate traffic cameras


I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them. (But I realize those cams aren't what the article is about.)
 
2012-08-29 08:01:36 AM  

ieerto: The thefts... are dangerous.

Cu shouldn't thieve, because the thefts are dangerous.


What, you don't remember the plethora of stories about copper thieves who don't bother with insulated gloves and boots, and are found later as crispy critters?
 
2012-08-29 08:02:34 AM  
Commercial building contractors are having to hire security guards to patrol their construction sites to keep thieves from stealing the wiring from unfinished buildings around here. Abandoned homes are often being broken into and the walls ripped apart so thieves can steal the wiring and copper pipe. The scrap dealers are being told by the police not to accept large amounts of copper from non-contractors, but the thefts continue anyway.
 
2012-08-29 08:02:59 AM  

farkityfarker: I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them.


Cops are effective. If you have cops, who are witnesses to the entire situation, they can do a good job of stopping and ticketing speeders and light-runners. Just another possibility.
 
2012-08-29 08:06:08 AM  

stevarooni: farkityfarker: I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them.

Cops are effective. If you have cops, who are witnesses to the entire situation, they can do a good job of stopping and ticketing speeders and light-runners. Just another possibility.


It's impossible for cops to see and ticket more than a tiny fraction of speeders and red light runners. Speeders and light runners know this, so they figure the risk is worth taking.

We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.
 
2012-08-29 08:10:03 AM  

Bendal: Commercial building contractors are having to hire security guards to patrol their construction sites to keep thieves from stealing the wiring from unfinished buildings around here. Abandoned homes are often being broken into and the walls ripped apart so thieves can steal the wiring and copper pipe. The scrap dealers are being told by the police not to accept large amounts of copper from non-contractors, but the thefts continue anyway.


So this is basically the only time Americans recycle?
 
2012-08-29 08:10:19 AM  

farkityfarker: We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.


What good is a camera for somebody who "Frenches" their tag, or just completely removes it, and puts on a "Lost Tag" sign?
 
2012-08-29 08:16:56 AM  
Just how much is that wire worth?

I can't imagine that it's worth the trouble that some of these people (thieves) are going through for it..
 
2012-08-29 08:17:03 AM  

farkityfarker: stevarooni: farkityfarker: I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them.

Cops are effective. If you have cops, who are witnesses to the entire situation, they can do a good job of stopping and ticketing speeders and light-runners. Just another possibility.

It's impossible for cops to see and ticket more than a tiny fraction of speeders and red light runners. Speeders and light runners know this, so they figure the risk is worth taking.

We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.


We saw some guy blow through a red light at twice the speed limit recently. LOL, he blew right past a cop car.
 
2012-08-29 08:17:24 AM  
I don't understand your question.

If you're referring to someone who drives without a license plate, or a stolen one, they are taking a big risk by doing it. The penalty for that is enormous.
 
2012-08-29 08:30:47 AM  

farkityfarker: unholyblackmage: subbby, why not hero tag? i hate traffic cameras

I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them. (But I realize those cams aren't what the article is about.)


I hate how they turn a 50mph road into a 30mph road as everyone overbrakes. I also hate watching as the 50mph drivers behind me approach my now near stationary car.

I295 just as you enter DC near the Naval Research Labs. If you've driven there you've seen the effect.
 
2012-08-29 08:33:02 AM  

farkityfarker: We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.


Deterrence doesn't require that, though. One Cop patrolling and periodically pulling over people will have a deterrence effect over a much larger area than a single, fixed-position camera.
 
2012-08-29 08:36:11 AM  

farkityfarker: stevarooni: farkityfarker: I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them.

Cops are effective. If you have cops, who are witnesses to the entire situation, they can do a good job of stopping and ticketing speeders and light-runners. Just another possibility.

It's impossible for cops to see and ticket more than a tiny fraction of speeders and red light runners. Speeders and light runners know this, so they figure the risk is worth taking.

We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.


That's the point. The laws weren't written with 100% automated enforcement in mind.

Many places actually ban the cameras because of the huge quality of life decrease that these things cause. Let alone the fact that the penalties are hideously regressive.
 
2012-08-29 08:36:25 AM  
Sooooo sooooooooooo conflicted.

Do I want more Big Brother or do I want to look away from the crime of stealing?
 
2012-08-29 08:40:11 AM  
FWIW: The cameras in the article are not to catch speeders they are to monitor congestion along with speed sensors in the road they help those of us who live in this traffic nightmare figure out who late we are going to be.

Atlanta Real-time Traffic
 
2012-08-29 08:51:08 AM  

stevarooni: ieerto: The thefts... are dangerous.

Cu shouldn't thieve, because the thefts are dangerous.

What, you don't remember the plethora of stories about copper thieves who don't bother with insulated gloves and boots, and are found later as crispy critters?


That is what is known as a self correcting problem though....
 
2012-08-29 08:53:11 AM  
Nothing is worse for the economy than these idiots. They will do $10,000 worth of damage to get $27 worth of copper out of the walls.
 
2012-08-29 08:53:44 AM  

kim jong-un: farkityfarker: unholyblackmage: subbby, why not hero tag? i hate traffic cameras

I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them. (But I realize those cams aren't what the article is about.)

I hate how they turn a 50mph road into a 30mph road as everyone overbrakes. I also hate watching as the 50mph drivers behind me approach my now near stationary car.

I295 just as you enter DC near the Naval Research Labs. If you've driven there you've seen the effect.


It's not the fault of the cameras that people are retarded. As far as I'm aware, you have to be going at least 10 mph over the limit to be ticketed in most cases.

stevarooni: farkityfarker: We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.

Deterrence doesn't require that, though. One Cop patrolling and periodically pulling over people will have a deterrence effect over a much larger area than a single, fixed-position camera.


No, the cameras pretty much shut down the violations. When people know there is a 100% chance of being caught instead of a tiny chance, it alters their behavior.

kim jong-un: farkityfarker: stevarooni: farkityfarker: I love them. Only effective way to make people stop speeding and running red lights. Which is exactly why the serial speeders and red light runners hate them.

Cops are effective. If you have cops, who are witnesses to the entire situation, they can do a good job of stopping and ticketing speeders and light-runners. Just another possibility.

It's impossible for cops to see and ticket more than a tiny fraction of speeders and red light runners. Speeders and light runners know this, so they figure the risk is worth taking.

We would have to have 50 cops stationed at each intersection to make the risk of getting caught a deterrence, and even then they wouldn't have the 100% success rate at nailing the violators that the cams do.

That's the point. The laws weren't written with 100% automated enforcement in mind.

Many places actually ban the cameras because of the huge quality of life decrease that these things cause. Let alone the fact that the penalties are hideously regressive.


So traffic laws were written with the belief that it's OK if 99% of people disregard them, and it causes a huge decrease of life quality if most people aren't allowed to speed and run red lights most of the time?

Makes sense.
 
2012-08-29 08:55:43 AM  
Did Freeway Jimmy make parole?
 
2012-08-29 08:56:58 AM  
They'll steal anything that isn't nailed down.

If they can pry it loose, then it wasn't nailed down properly.
 
2012-08-29 08:59:08 AM  

Pribar: stevarooni: ieerto: The thefts... are dangerous.

Cu shouldn't thieve, because the thefts are dangerous.

What, you don't remember the plethora of stories about copper thieves who don't bother with insulated gloves and boots, and are found later as crispy critters?

That is what is known as a self correcting problem though....


Meh. Ripping out 220, 221 (whatever it takes) makes crispy kritters. But a webcam on a 24-volt bus only helps kick in the ketamine buzz.
 
2012-08-29 09:25:17 AM  
The bums used to steal the copper out of the streetlights on the Downtown Connector. The city spent $$$ getting the lights working again, and the bums stole the copper again.

If you want to risk life and limb across 10 lanes of traffic to pull wire out of a live streetlamp, let Darwin be your guide.
 
2012-08-29 09:39:42 AM  
On one hand government controlled cameras are swiftly taking us into the terrifying 1984esque future, on the other hand meth heads are generally irredeemable drains on society. I'm not sure who to root for on this one.

Maybe the gov could switch to solar powered wireless cameras? Then the junkie would steal the panel but at least there would be a lot of cheap solar panels on the market and I could use some....
 
2012-08-29 09:40:59 AM  

farkityfarker: No, the cameras pretty much shut down the violations. When people know there is a 100% chance of being caught instead of a tiny chance, it alters their behavior.


...creating other problems, such as a sizable increase in rear-end collisions. Then there's the questionable justice of ticketing something when they may well not have committed the crime; they're just guilty of owning a car that went through a red light.

Regardless, this story isn't about a red-light camera or speed camera, but a traffic camera...which are pretty handy for keeping tabs on traffic congestion and the progress of emergency vehicles. Not that I'm keen for a surveillance society, but traffic cameras are pretty tame.
 
2012-08-29 09:43:25 AM  

kim jong-un: Let alone the fact that the penalties are hideously regressive.


Remember, penalties and fees are not taxes!
 
2012-08-29 09:59:03 AM  

stevarooni: ...creating other problems, such as a sizable increase in rear-end collisions. Then there's the questionable justice of ticketing something when they may well not have committed the crime; they're just guilty of owning a car that went through a red light.


Please stop pulling up this tired old shiat.

If people are getting rear ended at intersections with cameras (which I highly doubt) it's because of the idiots trying to run red lights behind people who stop for them.

Which is just another argument for red light cameras. It gets such idiots citations, higher insurance, and eventually off the road.
 
2012-08-29 10:04:46 AM  
FTFA: "Someone could get themselves killed doing something like that," he said.

One can only hope.
 
2012-08-29 10:17:01 AM  

farkityfarker: Please stop pulling up this tired old shiat.

If people are getting rear ended at intersections with cameras (which I highly doubt) it's because of the idiots trying to run red lights behind people who stop for them.

Which is just another argument for red light cameras. It gets such idiots citations, higher insurance, and eventually off the road.


In Washington D.C. (WashingtonPost.com):
----
But a Washington Post analysis of crash statistics shows that the number of accidents has gone up at intersections with the cameras. The increase is the same or worse than at traffic signals without the devices.

Three outside traffic specialists independently reviewed the data and said they were surprised by the results. Their conclusion: The cameras do not appear to be making any difference in preventing injuries or collisions.

"The data are very clear," said Dick Raub, a traffic consultant and a former senior researcher at Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety. "They are not performing any better than intersections without cameras."

----

Traffic construction is often made to accommodate drivers who shouldn't do certain things when they drive, but are still expected to. Drivers should keep enough distance between cars so that they have adequate space to stop without hitting the car in front of 'em, but that simply doesn't happen, so civil engineers will erect warning signs ahead of stoplights soon after a hill, so that drivers have extra time to slow down. The psychology of red light cameras seems to be that people will slam their brakes for these stoplights when the yellow light first glows.
 
2012-08-29 10:22:24 AM  
I doubt it. You are arguing that people should run red lights to avoid being rear ended.

At the same time, T-bone accidents are far more devastating than rear end ones are.
 
2012-08-29 10:35:51 AM  

farkityfarker: I doubt it. You are arguing that people should run red lights to avoid being rear ended.

At the same time, T-bone accidents are far more devastating than rear end ones are.


Red light cameras do not deter the situations which result in tbone collisions.

Those situations are caused be people missing the fact that the light is red.
 
2012-08-29 10:37:20 AM  
"Having those cameras operable is important," McKinnon said. "That's what helps your average motorist get to work every day, that we're able to see what's going on out there."

please elaborate...seems like I was getting to work before the cameras exactly as I do now

how about instead of wasting millions on cameras capturing the roads, BUILD SOME FREAKING ROADS!
 
2012-08-29 11:10:11 AM  

farkityfarker: I doubt it. You are arguing that people should run red lights to avoid being rear ended.

At the same time, T-bone accidents are far more devastating than rear end ones are.


People SHOULD be able to correctly estimate their own speed, and whether they can safely proceed through the yellow light. Red light cameras tend to presume that everyone should always stop, all the time, and are often timed for that (often illegally). People then compound the problem by being overly cautious and afraid because of the fear of inappropriate enforcement, and hurt themselves and others.

The rules work when everyone operates as selfishly as possible within the letter of the law. Being overly cautious, or overly nice to people is just as disruptive as being overly aggressive.
 
2012-08-29 12:47:23 PM  
why not just pay these thieves more??
 
2012-08-29 01:53:08 PM  

ericroane: "Having those cameras operable is important," McKinnon said. "That's what helps your average motorist get to work every day, that we're able to see what's going on out there."

please elaborate...seems like I was getting to work before the cameras exactly as I do now

how about instead of wasting millions on cameras capturing the roads, BUILD SOME FREAKING ROADS!


The cameras are monitored for accidents and unusual traffic build-ups. The agents can then notify police to head to the scene, dispatch the necessary maintenance/clean-up crew or assistance vehicles (if they have those in GDOT) quickly to get the scene cleared up that much faster, ensuring the shortest amount of traffic delays possible. (I don't have the statistics handy but it made a signifigant difference when they installed them in NY.)
 
2012-08-29 02:16:06 PM  

farkityfarker: Which is just another argument for red light cameras. It gets such idiots citations, higher insurance, and eventually off the road.


The only problem with your theory is that cameras haven't stopped speeders/red light runners, raised their insurance rates, gotten them off the road, or made the roads any safer. They haven't really even put a dent in the problem. So, yeah, awesome idea there Sparky, but it doesn't actually reflect reality.
 
2012-08-29 03:35:11 PM  
t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-30 08:33:39 PM  
There's lots and lots of copper in the ground underneath those AM towers.

Make sure when you're finished pulling the copper out that you grab that tower nice and tight.

/pay no attention to the fence and the "High Voltage" signs.
 
2012-09-01 06:43:26 PM  

ieerto: Pribar: stevarooni: ieerto: The thefts... are dangerous.

Cu shouldn't thieve, because the thefts are dangerous.

What, you don't remember the plethora of stories about copper thieves who don't bother with insulated gloves and boots, and are found later as crispy critters?

That is what is known as a self correcting problem though....

Meh. Ripping out 220, 221 (whatever it takes) makes crispy kritters. But a webcam on a 24-volt bus only helps kick in the ketamine buzz.



I was referring to the thieves that stole the high voltage lines, however if you designed the cameras with floating grounds it could really deter (or at least fatally surprise) any thief that cut into the line.
 
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