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(CBS Atlanta)   An Atlanta school teacher had a very good reason for her part in the test cheating scandal. They were "dumb as hell"   (atlanta.cbslocal.com) divider line 85
    More: Obvious, Atlanta, CBS Atlanta, scandals, cheats  
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9455 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2012 at 9:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-29 09:22:41 AM
i say smart as fark
 
2012-08-29 09:23:09 AM
Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?
 
2012-08-29 09:27:25 AM
Well, we're grading teachers on the ability to pass kids, and those kids are going home into an environment where education generally isn't viewed as being important. Often times educational achievement and success is denigrated as "acting white." Then, when you actually fail the kids for not knowing the material, your job is put at risk and you're lambasted by parents whose interest in education stops as soon as their kids leave the house for the day.

So, while I'm not defending the teachers, we have to realize that education of our kids is a partnership between teachers and parents - the former can't take the place of the latter.
 
2012-08-29 09:27:59 AM
Not to get too serious in a fark thread but there isn't much wrong with American schools (though not flawless)...The problem is American parenting. Daytime TV topics make me ill.

/Too early to start drinking? Continuing the cycle.
 
2012-08-29 09:29:06 AM

MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


Teachers don't make kids smart, they can only hope to pass along knowledge. There are stupid people who are educated and smart people who are uneducated. If people of any level of intelligence don't want to learn then they end up uneducated and that's not the teacher's fault.
 
2012-08-29 09:29:23 AM
fc02.deviantart.net

/hotter n' hell
 
2012-08-29 09:29:45 AM
Dumb kids? Maybe.

Lazy teacher. Absolutely!
 
2012-08-29 09:30:48 AM

MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


While the teachers may suck at getting the attention of the kids in new and interesting ways, their jobs are made more difficult by absentee parenting and a culture that glamorizes ignorance and fashion over hard work and education.
 
2012-08-29 09:31:23 AM
From TFA:


The tribunal deliberated for just one hour before handing down a guilty verdict. Smith had been charged with willful neglect and immorality, and she subsequently lost her job.


WTH? For enabling cheating on tests? Since it just went to "the tribunal" these were not criminal charges, but geez. 

(Obviously enabling cheating is not okay but the charges seem a little dramatic.)
 
2012-08-29 09:32:19 AM

MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


BadChipmunk: Well, we're grading teachers on the ability to pass kids, and those kids are going home into an environment where education generally isn't viewed as being important. Often times educational achievement and success is denigrated as "acting white." Then, when you actually fail the kids for not knowing the material, your job is put at risk and you're lambasted by parents whose interest in education stops as soon as their kids leave the house for the day.

So, while I'm not defending the teachers, we have to realize that education of our kids is a partnership between teachers and parents - the former can't take the place of the latter.


juddcc: Not to get too serious in a fark thread but there isn't much wrong with American schools (though not flawless)...The problem is American parenting. Daytime TV topics make me ill.

/Too early to start drinking? Continuing the cycle.



All that needs to be said.
 
2012-08-29 09:32:49 AM
FTA: The tribunal deliberated for just one hour before handing down a guilty verdict. Smith had been charged with willful neglect and immorality, and she subsequently lost her job.

I didn't know that was an offense. I'm screwed.
 
2012-08-29 09:32:52 AM
Some of the smarter people I've met are from Georgia. They just sound dumb. It's like their secret weapon or something.
 
2012-08-29 09:33:20 AM
She got ratted about by a guy named Schajuan. Having to live with that name may be punishment enough.
 
2012-08-29 09:33:43 AM

jaybeezey: MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?

While the teachers may suck at getting the attention of the kids in new and interesting ways, their jobs are made more difficult by absentee parenting and a culture that glamorizes ignorance and fashion over hard work and education.


Fully agreed. I just didn't want to get in trouble for typing "Well, if the Nike Air Lebrons fit...". I just don't need the stress this early in the morning.
 
2012-08-29 09:34:19 AM
Kids don't go to school to learn, they go to get good grades. Cheating should be celebrated as an efficient use of time and resources.
 
2012-08-29 09:34:37 AM

MCStymie: Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


I live in an upper middle class town which has had high preforming schools for a generation or more. As a result people who want better education for their children move here creating a culture supportive of education. The k-8 school has to break open house into 2 nights because the turn out is so large there isn't enough parking.

A friend of mine teaches about 20 minutes from my town in an old mill town where the mills have long since closed. Many of his students don't have a consistent adult in their lives or even a regular place to live. On open house nights in his school he is happy to have a handful of parents show up at all.

My friends school is failing while mine is doing well. You only have kids for six hours a day if they show up so support at home is key.
 
2012-08-29 09:34:44 AM
So she wasn't able to reeeech those keeeeds?
 
2012-08-29 09:35:25 AM
Indefinite antecedent, subby. That, or misplaced quotation marks.
 
2012-08-29 09:36:15 AM

MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


Humans exist along a bell-curve of knowledge. No matter how well they are taught or how poorly, there will still be a group that simply cannot achieve at whatever level is considered "adequate", unless we dumb down "adequate" to the point where it's meaningless.

Part of the problem is inadequate schooling. A larger part is inadequate parental support. Another part is peer reinforcement of school failure as "cool". And yes, race is tied in quite intimately with all of this, which is why we get the demographic differences we do in evaluating ability.

The solution is to adequately teach, provide teachers who are highly skilled and who use proven techniques. Then provide resources for any student who is struggling, so that NOBODY who really wants to try is left out. And then relax and realize that no matter what you do, some of the kids are going to be dumb as hell. This nonsense about making all of our kids above average is a symptom of our math inabilities. Can't happen. Not possible. The only way to make 'em all equal is to refuse to measure 'em in the first place. And that's probably a bad idea.
 
2012-08-29 09:36:50 AM
Nothing that all the successful people in the real world aren't already participating in.


... Also the article says "reportedly gave students the illegal assistance ". It's not illegal, it's against policy, there is a difference (mostly the whole, cops showing up with a warrant difference).
 
2012-08-29 09:40:30 AM
"Your kids are dumb as hell".... Isn't that like calling the pot calling the kettle black? No pun intended.
 
2012-08-29 09:42:11 AM

MCStymie: jaybeezey: MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?

While the teachers may suck at getting the attention of the kids in new and interesting ways, their jobs are made more difficult by absentee parenting and a culture that glamorizes ignorance and fashion over hard work and education.

Fully agreed. I just didn't want to get in trouble for typing "Well, if the Nike Air Lebrons fit...". I just don't need the stress this early in the morning.


oh no you d'int.
 
2012-08-29 09:42:41 AM
An elementary math test? Of course the kids are dumb.

Threadjack:

I will not lambast elementary teachers because they sure as hell have a full plate with getting the young ones learning how to read and write and use the bathroom etc. But let's face it, many of them are elementary teachers because they suck at math. They are being asked to teach math that they themselves don't understand. My daughter came home last year (6th grade) talking about powers. She was very proud to share with me that 20 = 1.

Well, okay kiddo, WHY? Of course they were just TOLD this little tidbit of information. Not a clue as to the reasoning behind it.

The solution is to get math specialists in every elementary school to work directly with the kids. It's not enough to teach the elementary teachers themselves. I was part of a program once where we taught eled teachers 7th and 8th grade math for the purpose of getting them a certification to teach at that level. Some of them were literally in tears, it was such a depressing thing to see. 

/Threadjack
 
2012-08-29 09:42:46 AM

dahmers love zombie: The solution is to adequately teach, provide teachers who are highly skilled and who use proven techniques. Then provide resources for any student who is struggling, so that NOBODY who really wants to try is left out.


Yeah but all that shiat costs money. It's much cheaper to give poorer areas underpaid teachers and no educational resources and then biatch that the entire public school system is a failure and teachers all suck.
 
2012-08-29 09:44:09 AM
Sorry....I meant... isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black? More coffee needed.
 
2012-08-29 09:44:31 AM

BadChipmunk: Well, we're grading teachers on the ability to pass kids, and those kids are going home into an environment where education generally isn't viewed as being important. Often times educational achievement and success is denigrated as "acting white." Then, when you actually fail the kids for not knowing the material, your job is put at risk and you're lambasted by parents whose interest in education stops as soon as their kids leave the house for the day.


Pretty much puts teachers into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

And this is why pay should not be linked to results, for educators.
 
2012-08-29 09:44:33 AM

juddcc: Not to get too serious in a fark thread but there isn't much wrong with American schools (though not flawless)...The problem is American parenting. Daytime TV topics make me ill..


Spot on. There are weak teachers of course - but many parents have all but abandoned ANY responsibility for the education of their kids.
 
2012-08-29 09:45:46 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Kids don't go to school to learn, they go to get good grades. Cheating should be celebrated as an efficient use of time and resources.


Well, I won't back the "celebrating" part, but, yeah, kids today go to school to get good grades. It's nothing more than a certificate.

It's like the current scandal at UNC over athletes taking no-show classes and getting As in them. What's the problem? Isn't the purpose of college to get out and get a good job and make money? These guys will go to the NFL or the NBA and make tons of cash. So what if they can't read - they are making bux delux! Another success story! And if they kick back, er, give back to the school, even better!

The main purpose of public schools is the keep the little chumps off the streets during the daytime. If someone wants their kid to learn how to read and use rational thinking skills, they can either teach them at home or send them to private schools. Taught both my kids how to read BEFORE they started public schools, then made sure they were in AP from the start. If I thought they had a teacher who was an idiot or a slacker, I was in the principal's office asking for a transfer.
 
2012-08-29 09:46:10 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Some of the smarter people I've met are from Georgia. They just sound dumb. It's like their secret weapon or something.


Statistically Georgia has as many smart people per population as anywhere else. The smart ones simply learn to act dumb to get by in redneck-ville to blend in.
 
2012-08-29 09:47:09 AM

HartRend: Nothing that all the successful people in the real world aren't already participating in.


... Also the article says "reportedly gave students the illegal assistance ". It's not illegal, it's against policy, there is a difference (mostly the whole, cops showing up with a warrant difference).


You assume people doing illegal things are arrested and prosecuted. Wall Street would like some words with you. I believe those words are, "Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyahhh Nyah!"

HotWingConspiracy: Kids don't go to school to learn, they go to get good grades. Cheating should be celebrated as an efficient use of time and resources.


Amen!
 
2012-08-29 09:50:03 AM

juddcc: Not to get too serious in a fark thread but there isn't much wrong with American schools (though not flawless)...The problem is American parenting. Daytime TV topics make me ill.

/Too early to start drinking? Continuing the cycle.


But neither my Life-Partner nor myself are willing to put our careers on hold. That's why we stuck little Braeden in daycare when he was six months old. Everyone's doing it, so it must be right.
 
2012-08-29 09:51:47 AM

Cheron: MCStymie: Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?

I live in an upper middle class town which has had high preforming schools for a generation or more. As a result people who want better education for their children move here creating a culture supportive of education. The k-8 school has to break open house into 2 nights because the turn out is so large there isn't enough parking.

A friend of mine teaches about 20 minutes from my town in an old mill town where the mills have long since closed. Many of his students don't have a consistent adult in their lives or even a regular place to live. On open house nights in his school he is happy to have a handful of parents show up at all.

My friends school is failing while mine is doing well. You only have kids for six hours a day if they show up so support at home is key.


Oh so much this, and it baffles me that so few people acknowledge it. I suspect the problem is that it's politically inconvenient for everyone

For the liberal side, you have to admit that throwing money at schools really doesn't help as much as you might think. Better teachers and conditions do make a difference, but the effects don't scale that much, especially with kids who have no role models and no real hope for anything.

For the conservative side, you have to admit that vouchers for private school/charter schools and the like really don't help much either- you're simply filtering out the kids who have parents who don't care about their education. (Of course, you then get to point out how the public schools are failing, so that's a bonus)
 
2012-08-29 09:52:45 AM

BadChipmunk: Well, we're grading teachers on the ability to pass kids, and those kids are going home into an environment where education generally isn't viewed as being important. Often times educational achievement and success is denigrated as "acting white." Then, when you actually fail the kids for not knowing the material, your job is put at risk and you're lambasted by parents whose interest in education stops as soon as their kids leave the house for the day.

So, while I'm not defending the teachers, we have to realize that education of our kids is a partnership between teachers and parents - the former can't take the place of the latter.


I'll go a bit farther even.

The teacher's jobs are on the line for factors outside their control. Furthermore, they know many teachers will cheat, this ends up being a severe penalty for being honest. The system is being horribly unfair to them, is it surprising that many respond in kind?
 
2012-08-29 09:53:31 AM
Smith had been charged with willful neglect and immorality,

That's a crime now? Somebody call the SWAT team. Between K street and Capitol Hill we could damn near fill an entire prison. We'll hit Wall Street on our way back.
 
2012-08-29 09:55:21 AM

MCStymie: Someone has to take the plunge...Okay, if the kids are "dumb as hell," doesn't that mean the teacher has failed, too? Parents? Contemporary culture?


You don't beat the dog that was never trained to not shiat in the house, you beat those who were responsible for teaching it properly as a puppy.

A lot of parents don't give a shiat, and school officials' hands are tied and aren't allowed to instill discipline.

Some kids don't have a snowball's chance in hell, and that's very sad.
 
2012-08-29 09:59:49 AM

mod3072: Smith had been charged with willful neglect and immorality,

That's a crime now? Somebody call the SWAT team. Between K street and Capitol Hill we could damn near fill an entire prison. We'll hit Wall Street on our way back.


Beat me to it. Between the pedo priests and Congress, it would be mighty big prison.
 
2012-08-29 10:01:48 AM

Glockenspiel Hero: For the liberal side, you have to admit that throwing money at schools really doesn't help as much as you might think. Better teachers and conditions do make a difference, but the effects don't scale that much, especially with kids who have no role models and no real hope for anything.


The problem is that when you throw money at schools, very little of that translates down to the teachers and the students. Most goes to the district administration. Think of it as the same as the "trickle-down" plan - the wealth stays with those who control the purse strings. Put tight limits on administrative pay and you'll see schools improve as the money goes to the students.
 
2012-08-29 10:04:10 AM
CSB time:

My sister teaches Kindergarten in a North Georgia public school (less than 2% white student body) and one of the little Hispanic girls this year keeps pulling her pants down and taking a dump on the playground.

As much as the African-American culture is called to the carpet for apathetic indifference to education, the Latino problem is much, much worse in my opinion. My sister's had half of her class come to school one year (mind you these are 6-year-olds) having never been shown how to hold a crayon/pencil.
 
2012-08-29 10:08:44 AM
And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.
 
2012-08-29 10:10:43 AM
Anyone see the Won't Back Down trailer? Maggie Gyllenhaal plays a parent at the end of her ropes with ineffectual teachers and bureaucracies and goes out and starts her ol' dang ol' school and the children start learnding with a little love and understanding. Based on a true story with vouchers and schools in New England? Anyway, I saw that trailer and thought, it's nice that she's taking an interest in her kid's life, but it comes off as being an extreme helicopter parent.

I remember on the Wire that most parents didn't care about their kids in school and it was good Mr. Prez who was the only one who looked out for them. I'm on the side that this is primarily a parenting issue as they have more rights and responsibilities to the child than the teacher does, especially in this litigious environment.

But ultimately it's two overworked groups pitted against each other while other people make money. Same as it ever was.
 
2012-08-29 10:15:51 AM

ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.


Where does that money go?
 
2012-08-29 10:19:13 AM
This is what happens when performance and funding are linked. What testing _should_ be doing is simply identifying which students have met the desired outcomes, and which students have not. And then you look at that later group and determine what supports are needed to get them where they need to be. Reducing supports, instructional time, resources, probably won't be the right answer there, but for some reason the non-educators in charge of education seem to think that using less gets you more.
 
2012-08-29 10:19:42 AM

Optimus Primate: juddcc: Not to get too serious in a fark thread but there isn't much wrong with American schools (though not flawless)...The problem is American parenting. Daytime TV topics make me ill..

Spot on. There are weak teachers of course - but many parents have all but abandoned ANY responsibility for the education of their kids.


This is true.

AdmirableSnackbar: ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.

Where does that money go?


Well who do you think administers these school districts? They won't "manage" themselves you know.
 
2012-08-29 10:21:14 AM

AdmirableSnackbar: ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.

Where does that money go?


Not to be bitter, but based upon personal experience in other school boards, that money goes to out-of-school administrators, flavour-of-the-year educational consultants, new policy and directive design and implementation (an annual thing, it seems), and random bits of technology that are given to teachers and school staff without explanation or support.
 
2012-08-29 10:21:30 AM

AdmirableSnackbar: ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.

Where does that money go?


My suggestion for an answer? Go to the school district website. Select the tab or page for administration. Start to count the number of people who have job titles with more than three words. Bonus points for people with titles like "Assistant Associate of" or "Adjunct Associate of" under their names. Special rule: the words "Diversity" or "Equity" can be counted twice.

Prediction: if you can use your public info law to find out their salary, I'll bet each and every one of those folks makes - at a minimum - 2x what the average teacher makes.
 
2012-08-29 10:22:47 AM

Kurohone: AdmirableSnackbar: ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.

Where does that money go?

Not to be bitter, but based upon personal experience in other school boards, that money goes to out-of-school administrators, flavour-of-the-year educational consultants, new policy and directive design and implementation (an annual thing, it seems), and random bits of technology that are given to teachers and school staff without explanation or support.


That's exactly what I've seen as well.
 
2012-08-29 10:23:17 AM
Sometimes I don't know what to think.
My daughter is a senior in high school. Her schedule was a hot mess.
After a lot of emails back and forth, we got it figured out.
She's taking 2 classes at the local university.
If I hadn't paid attention, or didn't care, she'd be in Home Ec. and art, rather than college Algebra and Biology.
School staff is overwhelmed with the number of students.
Parents need to pick up the slack or their kids will get left behind.
 
2012-08-29 10:27:12 AM

OldManDownDRoad: AdmirableSnackbar: ManRay: And the best part about the whole scandal is the City of Atlanta spends more $$ per student than other school systems in the metro area, and still can't turn out better students than they do.

Where does that money go?

My suggestion for an answer? Go to the school district website. Select the tab or page for administration. Start to count the number of people who have job titles with more than three words. Bonus points for people with titles like "Assistant Associate of" or "Adjunct Associate of" under their names. Special rule: the words "Diversity" or "Equity" can be counted twice.

Prediction: if you can use your public info law to find out their salary, I'll bet each and every one of those folks makes - at a minimum - 2x what the average teacher makes.


Yup, often its 3x or more. Never understood that the reward for passion in your field and to impart that on 20,30, maybe 35 middle schoolers is a puny wage and a 10 year old car where getting a business degree and a minor in psych can get you a cushy job dreaming up ideas to turn a buck into a dollar fifty gets you a new car every year, great healthcare, and relative ease.

But, Oh, I forgot. We're in America where the Job Creator is king and their every whim must be catered to. Why can't we put the Life Enrichers on similar pedestals?
 
2012-08-29 10:32:18 AM

dr.zaeus: CSB time:

My sister teaches Kindergarten in a North Georgia public school (less than 2% white student body) and one of the little Hispanic girls this year keeps pulling her pants down and taking a dump on the playground.

As much as the African-American culture is called to the carpet for apathetic indifference to education, the Latino problem is much, much worse in my opinion. My sister's had half of her class come to school one year (mind you these are 6-year-olds) having never been shown how to hold a crayon/pencil.


A lot of this has to do with their jobs.

We have an odd mix in my school district- we're primarily a college/tourist town, so you get quite a few students with parents who are very serious about education.

But it's a small town and the rest of the district is farm fields, with a lot of migrant labor. Ask our school superintendent sometime about the struggles they have merely getting a stable address to send mail to, or how to get a student to do homework when there are 8 people living in 3 rooms. English skills are variable, parents very rarely have the time or energy to do much help at all, and luxuries like a lot of books, art supplies or the other things preschool kids need simply don't exist.

As for the little girl? She probably doesn't have indoor plumbing. Not uncommon.
 
2012-08-29 10:33:41 AM

MindStalker: Statistically Georgia has as many smart people per population as anywhere else. The smart ones simply learn to act dumb to get by in redneck-ville to blend in.


Most people in redneck-ville are dumb, but statistically they're like everywhere else?

Your logic teacher should be charged with immorality.
 
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