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(Sports Illustrated)   Butthurt ex-Penn State profs are butthurt   ( sportsillustrated.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Penn State, NCAA, Tim Curley, Mike McQueary, NCAA sanctions, graduate assistant, Joe Paterno, Jerry Sandusky  
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3426 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Aug 2012 at 11:00 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-08-29 07:49:59 AM  
Boo Hoo
 
2012-08-29 08:20:37 AM  
If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.
 
2012-08-29 10:11:03 AM  
Thats funny, I bet the 10 year old boys Sandusky was raping in the ass were kind of "butt hurt" too.
And Penn State's senior administration knew about it and covered it up for 15 years.
 
2012-08-29 11:02:50 AM  
I'm still waiting for the "Sandusky boy brothel" to be revealed.
 
2012-08-29 11:05:58 AM  

Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.


and we are done here.
 
2012-08-29 11:06:03 AM  
This can't be real.

Are these people serious?

Can't be. This has to be some internet fiction.
 
2012-08-29 11:06:06 AM  
Tough call. If I'd been a prof there for twenty years, didn't give two shiats about football (and let's face it, there's tons of profs like that at every school) and knew damn well I gave players no preferential treatment I would probably be pissed and want to say something about it. Then again if I were a prof I'd probably be pretty smart and realize that the public sentiment was against any kind of defense in this matter and I'd realize I was just pissing into the wind anyway.
 
2012-08-29 11:06:33 AM  
You said butthurt twice.

/You must like butthurt.
 
2012-08-29 11:20:53 AM  

Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.


Also considering the NCAA had the votes needed to drop a 4 year death sentence on PSU football, trying to pick a fight with the NCAA seems ill advised.
 
2012-08-29 11:22:45 AM  
If they wanted to advertise that the faculty isn't too bright, that is one way to do it. So if you were weighing the 2 sides of the coin: Hmmmm. Academic accreditation or the scandal? Well, despite the scandal, at least the king's ransom I'm paying for a sheepskin must represent the nurturing of a staff of ivy tower elitists who can bestow upon me the good fortune of being offered a high paying career as soon as I get out, right? Right?
*crickets*
 
2012-08-29 11:23:39 AM  

JohnBigBootay: Tough call. If I'd been a prof there for twenty years, didn't give two shiats about football (and let's face it, there's tons of profs like that at every school) and knew damn well I gave players no preferential treatment I would probably be pissed and want to say something about it. Then again if I were a prof I'd probably be pretty smart and realize that the public sentiment was against any kind of defense in this matter and I'd realize I was just pissing into the wind anyway.


If I was an innocent professor, I'd want sanctions that didn't affect academics. I'm not a sympathizer; I think Sanduskey should rot in jail along with anyone else who knew about his actions. I think that basing sanctions off the Freeh report which didn't interview key witnesses at the request of the prosecution is shady as hell. I know it's not a trial, but the defense should get to say their part, or the NCAA should at least make their evidence available.

Elfich: Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.

and we are done here.


No, we aren't. Any true PSU supporter would want all the facts to come out so that the guilty can be punished but the innocent can continue educating how they are supposed to. Only a PSU football program supporter should be against a deeper investigation.
 
2012-08-29 11:25:13 AM  

Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.


You do realize that the Freed Report did not show any on field violations, which is the only thing the NCAA can legislate. It also didn't take into account the charity where a the majority of crimes were have rumored to take place. You also can't seem to grasp the idea that while those connected to Penn State are outraged at the actions profiled in the Freed Report, they are also insulted at the insinuation that the entire PSU school is filled with people who support pedophiles.

It's almost as if guilt by association is the hallmark of ignorant people who feed off the outrage such associations infer.
 
2012-08-29 11:27:03 AM  
"Not only are these assertions about the Penn State culture unproven, but we declare them to be false," the statement said. The signers include former engineering professors Richard G. Cunningham, who led the faculty senate in 1967-68, and Jean Landa Pytel, who led the group in 2010-2011.

Oh really? And you declare that on the basis of your exhaustive investigation which involved knee-jerk reactions and pulling things out of your ass?

Sounds like a pack of quality educators right there.
 
2012-08-29 11:30:55 AM  

Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.


as i'm not a psu supporter i would probably enjoy this. then maybe the ncaa could do the right thing and drop the death penalty on these ass-clowns.
 
2012-08-29 11:36:15 AM  

WTF Indeed: they are also insulted at the insinuation that the entire PSU school is filled with people who support pedophiles.


Maybe if they weren't screaming loudly about how the treatment of said pedophiles and the people who protected them is unfair, they wouldn't have that problem.
 
2012-08-29 11:37:35 AM  
The faculty leaders took special issue with the NCAA, saying it jumped to conclusions in finding the school had a long history of putting football over academics. The former teachers said they had hundreds of years of collective experience at Penn State and had never been asked to change grades for athletes or approve of phantom courses or majors.


"Well yeah PSU covered up a child molester and let it continue for at least 10 years but probably a lot longer so the football program wouldn't look bad but WE DIDNT CHANGE ANY GRADES OKAY?!??!?"

Good argument you guys got goin on there. Shame if somethin happened to it.
 
2012-08-29 11:38:32 AM  
Fark this "adjective noun is adjective" meme.

/and Penn State
 
2012-08-29 11:39:58 AM  

lacrossestar83: Fark this "adjective noun is adjective" meme.

/and Penn State


Shiatty memes are shiatty.
 
2012-08-29 11:41:59 AM  
FTA: Freeh defended his work Tuesday in an interview with The Associated Press. Addressing specific criticism that his team did not interview Mike McQueary and other key witnesses, Freeh said his team respected requests by state prosecutors to rely on their grand jury testimony. McQueary is the graduate assistant who saw Sandusky, a former assistant football coach, in the shower with a boy in 2001.
"We did not interview him; that was at the request of the attorney general," Freeh said. "Some of the people we normally would have interviewed, we were asked by the prosecutors not to do so."

Weren't some of the early issues from the state AG office? Like they had evidence and didn't pursue prosecution? So we want to fully rely on a report wherein the scope of the investigation is limited by a party that was involved in the scandal? It doesn't seem odd that people with state power had ties to Second Mile and may have influenced the decision. Nope, it's all about football.
 
2012-08-29 11:51:38 AM  

qorkfiend: Maybe if they weren't screaming loudly about how the treatment of said pedophiles and the people who protected them is unfair, they wouldn't have that problem.


Again, the professors were complaining about the NCAA sanctions against the school. The NCAA's focus is solely on-field play and the violations of their rules about who can play. Even members of the Freeh group said their report had nothing in it that should lead the NCAA to levee sanctions against the program. What the NCAA did was play the PR game, they took an investigation that wasn't their own and did not investigate violations of their rules and used it to levee sanctions against a school.

A proper NCAA investigation that results in sanctions takes months to years. The NCAA took a calculated risk that if they did a proper investigation as ordered by their bylaws they could spend months and find no NCAA violations that merited the sanctions the public demanded. Instead it chose a path that gave the public what it wanted, but left it open to the stories like the one here.

Basically, the NCAA reenacted the scene in Blazing Saddles where the governor is told of the bombing of Rock Ridge.

"We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!"
 
2012-08-29 11:56:13 AM  
Amazing how these wonderful intellectuals get angry about it now. I'm sorry, did the news of the penalties just hit them?

In addition, referring to the Freeh report as a report "based on scant evidence", just shows that every one of them chose to keep their heads in the sand and not actually read the damn thing.

// Thanks for coming
 
2012-08-29 11:56:31 AM  
Richard G. Cunningham

Where's Potsie?
 
2012-08-29 12:01:44 PM  

WTF Indeed: qorkfiend: Maybe if they weren't screaming loudly about how the treatment of said pedophiles and the people who protected them is unfair, they wouldn't have that problem.

Again, the professors were complaining about the NCAA sanctions against the school. The NCAA's focus is solely on-field play and the violations of their rules about who can play. Even members of the Freeh group said their report had nothing in it that should lead the NCAA to levee sanctions against the program. What the NCAA did was play the PR game, they took an investigation that wasn't their own and did not investigate violations of their rules and used it to levee sanctions against a school.


Yup.

The whole "We're fining you $60 million but you cannot take it out of athletics" thing is BS and shows the NCAA doesn't care about academics at all (but we all knew that already).

That's what the profs are pissed about.
 
2012-08-29 12:03:43 PM  
I saw a fantastic bit on ESPN regarding Penn State Football, and how the only 9 players "abandoned ship", and how the team is pulling together through this tough tragedy.

It brought a tear to my ear to think of these brave students, so bravely weathering this terrible ordeal they have had to go through. I thought to myself, "Thank God these kids have the University to selflessly look after them. They're learning some valuable lessons here."
 
2012-08-29 12:15:49 PM  
img.gawkerassets.com
 
2012-08-29 12:25:18 PM  
"We stand very strongly behind our report," Freeh said.
 
2012-08-29 12:30:53 PM  

skrame: JohnBigBootay: Tough call. If I'd been a prof there for twenty years, didn't give two shiats about football (and let's face it, there's tons of profs like that at every school) and knew damn well I gave players no preferential treatment I would probably be pissed and want to say something about it. Then again if I were a prof I'd probably be pretty smart and realize that the public sentiment was against any kind of defense in this matter and I'd realize I was just pissing into the wind anyway.

If I was an innocent professor, I'd want sanctions that didn't affect academics. I'm not a sympathizer; I think Sanduskey should rot in jail along with anyone else who knew about his actions. I think that basing sanctions off the Freeh report which didn't interview key witnesses at the request of the prosecution is shady as hell. I know it's not a trial, but the defense should get to say their part, or the NCAA should at least make their evidence available.

The Freeh Report WAS the defense saying their part.

 
2012-08-29 12:31:28 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: [img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]


You stay classy, Buckeye fans.
 
2012-08-29 12:33:34 PM  

born_yesterday: I saw a fantastic bit on ESPN regarding Penn State Football, and how the only 9 players "abandoned ship", and how the team is pulling together through this tough tragedy.

It brought a tear to my ear to think of these brave students, so bravely weathering this terrible ordeal they have had to go through. I thought to myself, "Thank God these kids have the University to selflessly look after them. They're learning some valuable lessons here."


I can't imagine what those lessons might be. How to destroy your own future in order to support the shell of a football team that institutionally condoned child rape?
 
2012-08-29 12:33:50 PM  

meanmutton: antidisestablishmentarianism: [img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

You stay classy, Buckeye fans.


I dunno. I thought it was funny.

/psu alum
 
2012-08-29 12:36:48 PM  

Meatschool: meanmutton: antidisestablishmentarianism: [img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

You stay classy, Buckeye fans.

I dunno. I thought it was funny.

/psu alum


I'm sure this is just the beginning of the trend, not that I condone it.
 
2012-08-29 12:37:29 PM  
In other words, they are just starting to figure out what recent Penn State graduates are learning every day now - any mention of Penn State on your resume/CV is poison. Hiring managers, like your humble poster here, are seeing 20 to 30 resumes for good paying jobs in this economy. The cut from say 20 down to the 3 that we're actually going to interview is not a long process. Even trivial issues like a misspelled word can get your resume sent to the bottom of the pile. Associated with a discredited institution? Plonk. Bottom of the pile.
 
2012-08-29 12:39:45 PM  
I bet Lasaga and Hiroshi Ohmoto sogned on to the complaint too.
 
2012-08-29 12:57:02 PM  

crazytrain: In other words, they are just starting to figure out what recent Penn State graduates are learning every day now - any mention of Penn State on your resume/CV is poison. Hiring managers, like your humble poster here, are seeing 20 to 30 resumes for good paying jobs in this economy. The cut from say 20 down to the 3 that we're actually going to interview is not a long process. Even trivial issues like a misspelled word can get your resume sent to the bottom of the pile. Associated with a discredited institution? favorited!. Bottom of the pile.


You are, of course, aware that judging an applicant's ability based upon how a few people (not directly involved in the kid's education) handled Sandusky, not the quality of the academic program from which they graduated, doesn't make you a good hiring manager, right? It just makes you an asshole.
 
2012-08-29 12:59:57 PM  

Meatschool: crazytrain: In other words, they are just starting to figure out what recent Penn State graduates are learning every day now - any mention of Penn State on your resume/CV is poison. Hiring managers, like your humble poster here, are seeing 20 to 30 resumes for good paying jobs in this economy. The cut from say 20 down to the 3 that we're actually going to interview is not a long process. Even trivial issues like a misspelled word can get your resume sent to the bottom of the pile. Associated with a discredited institution? favorited!. Bottom of the pile.

You are, of course, aware that judging an applicant's ability based upon how a few people (not directly involved in the kid's education) handled Sandusky, not the quality of the academic program from which they graduated, doesn't make you a good hiring manager, right? It just makes you an asshole.


Agreed. This is the first time i think a PSUer could claim they are being unfairly punished. Hoping it is a troll.
 
2012-08-29 01:01:23 PM  
Crazytrain, please allow me to add the that if you were simply commenting on a potential trend in hiring, and not your hiring practices specifically, I apologize for calling you an asshole.
 
2012-08-29 01:01:36 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.

Also considering the NCAA had the votes needed to drop a 4 year death sentence on PSU football, trying to pick a fight with the NCAA seems ill advised.


The NCAA would not only lose the ensuing lawsuit, that kind of thing may well break them entirely.

Meatschool: You are, of course, aware that judging an applicant's ability based upon how a few people (not directly involved in the kid's education) handled Sandusky, not the quality of the academic program from which they graduated, doesn't make you a good hiring manager, right? It just makes you an asshole.


This is true, but most people, including most Farkers, just want to see the PSU football program go down. They don't give a rat's ass about actually punishing those responsible.
 
2012-08-29 01:12:02 PM  

WTF Indeed: Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.

You do realize that the Freed Report did not show any on field violations, which is the only thing the NCAA can legislate.


Completely false.

ANYTHING (whether on the field or not) associated with Intercollegiate Athletics the NCAA has a charter agreed to by the NCAA member institutions to Legislate, Investigate, Enforce, etc. The Universities give the NCAA this power...not the other way around.

Recruitment violations, Educational eligibilty, Institutional control, improper student/athlete benefits, etc...these are all policed by the NCAA and are not "on field violations".

/Continue making up more stuff
//And being a jackass
 
2012-08-29 01:13:01 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: Meatschool: meanmutton: antidisestablishmentarianism: [img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

You stay classy, Buckeye fans.

I dunno. I thought it was funny.

/psu alum

I'm sure this is just the beginning of the trend, not that I condone it.


Well you can't be absolutely sure if it's a trend or not, but if it is be sure to wait until you tell someone.
 
2012-08-29 01:30:19 PM  

Coach_J: WTF Indeed: Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.

You do realize that the Freed Report did not show any on field violations, which is the only thing the NCAA can legislate.

Completely false.

ANYTHING (whether on the field or not) associated with Intercollegiate Athletics the NCAA has a charter agreed to by the NCAA member institutions to Legislate, Investigate, Enforce, etc. The Universities give the NCAA this power...not the other way around.

Recruitment violations, Educational eligibilty, Institutional control, improper student/athlete benefits, etc...these are all policed by the NCAA and are not "on field violations".

/Continue making up more stuff
//And being a jackass


Naw, let them run with that.

Forget that 4-year death penalty crap and boot PSU from the NCAA completely.

Justification: none of us want your sex offender school, facilities, students or faculty around our schools, facilities, students, and faculty.
 
2012-08-29 01:35:38 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Tough call. If I'd been a prof there for twenty years, didn't give two shiats about football (and let's face it, there's tons of profs like that at every school) and knew damn well I gave players no preferential treatment I would probably be pissed and want to say something about it. Then again if I were a prof I'd probably be pretty smart and realize that the public sentiment was against any kind of defense in this matter and I'd realize I was just pissing into the wind anyway.

--

Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world - "No, you move."


--some pedophile enabler
 
2012-08-29 01:37:23 PM  
From the comments

Let's be clear....it's not Sandusky;'s acts that caused the sanctions...it's the Penn State administrative organization that didn't stop it. Sandusky had his day. He's in jail (hopefully becoming an all-star wide receiver) for the rest of his life. The next issue is the way the entire Penn State community handled the problem. And that was wrong. And if you support their actions, you fall into that catagory, too. Please look at the facts.

One of the most rational comments on the subject I have heard, except for the prison rape part.

WTF Indeed: Babwa Wawa: If I were a PSU supporter, the last thing I'd want is a deeper investigation into the Sandusky mess.

You do realize that the Freed Report did not show any on field violations, which is the only thing the NCAA can legislate. It also didn't take into account the charity where a the majority of crimes were have rumored to take place. You also can't seem to grasp the idea that while those connected to Penn State are outraged at the actions profiled in the Freed Report, they are also insulted at the insinuation that the entire PSU school is filled with people who support pedophiles.

It's almost as if guilt by association is the hallmark of ignorant people who feed off the outrage such associations infer.


Actually the NCAA can legislate lack of institutional control. I think turning a blind eye to a member of your football program raping little boys, or a person who acted as an emissary for your to your program and used the facilities to rape little boys and lure victims, to protect the program constitutes a lack of institutional control. Don't you think so? 

And another thing, nobody is claiming that PSU is a school filled with people that support child rape. People can support the sanctions against the school and not think that everybody that ever attended or worked for PSU supports child rape. That is something that you PSU apologist that don't think anything should happen to the school even though the administration was complacent in covering up the rape can't understand.
 
2012-08-29 01:37:35 PM  

crazytrain: In other words, they are just starting to figure out what recent Penn State graduates are learning every day now - any mention of Penn State on your resume/CV is poison. Hiring managers, like your humble poster here, are seeing 20 to 30 resumes for good paying jobs in this economy. The cut from say 20 down to the 3 that we're actually going to interview is not a long process. Even trivial issues like a misspelled word can get your resume sent to the bottom of the pile. Associated with a discredited institution? favorited!. Bottom of the pile.


That's a win/win. Who would want to work for a company with hiring practices that capricious anyway? The management & HR are most likely totally incompetent through and through.
 
2012-08-29 01:38:16 PM  

you have pee hands: Who would want to work for a company with hiring practices that capricious anyway?


Someone who needs a job.
 
2012-08-29 01:43:38 PM  
images.wikia.com

'Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?'
 
2012-08-29 01:57:03 PM  
Another thread that's great for farkying dipshiats.

I admittedly live in State College. I want to see the total truth come out even if it is sickening. I believe the administrators who failed to act should be prosecuted. I believe that Joe did what was legally required but completely whiffed on his moral obligations - even if, as claimed, he didn't really understand what he was being told he should have demanded someone look into the issue completely because he had the power to do that. (I find that excuse thin - he was planning to become an attorney before coming to work for Rip Engle so he was not an idiot)

What I do not agree with is punishing the current players as there was NO competitive advantage gained. Don't give me the "damaged reputation" argument. Had Sandusky been kicked off campus entirely and investigated (and prosecuted) in 2001 no one would have thought anything more about it even though there were apparently properly investigated allegations from 1998 because those allegations *were* investigated by law enforcement. It is almost as though the dipshiats in charge didn't learn anything from Watergate OR the Catholic Church. (And further lacked the moral fiber to protect children above all else)
 
2012-08-29 02:01:18 PM  

slykens1: Another thread that's great for farkying dipshiats.

I admittedly live in State College. I want to see the total truth come out even if it is sickening. I believe the administrators who failed to act should be prosecuted. I believe that Joe did what was legally required but completely whiffed on his moral obligations - even if, as claimed, he didn't really understand what he was being told he should have demanded someone look into the issue completely because he had the power to do that. (I find that excuse thin - he was planning to become an attorney before coming to work for Rip Engle so he was not an idiot)

What I do not agree with is punishing the current players as there was NO competitive advantage gained. Don't give me the "damaged reputation" argument. Had Sandusky been kicked off campus entirely and investigated (and prosecuted) in 2001 no one would have thought anything more about it even though there were apparently properly investigated allegations from 1998 because those allegations *were* investigated by law enforcement. It is almost as though the dipshiats in charge didn't learn anything from Watergate OR the Catholic Church. (And further lacked the moral fiber to protect children above all else)


This isn't snarky, but what do you think is an appropriate punishment? I don't get why we never hear this complaint when schools lose scholarships for smaller violations, but i hear non-stop now how the players shouldn't be hurt for something they didn't do?
 
2012-08-29 02:03:27 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: [img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]


At least they spelled it right, unlike LSU
 
2012-08-29 02:05:25 PM  

Dr_luckyz: I don't get why we never hear this complaint when schools lose scholarships for smaller violations,


You obviously don't actually read those threads or pay attention to any of the coverage of those incidents.
 
2012-08-29 02:10:37 PM  

slykens1: Another thread that's great for farkying dipshiats.

I admittedly live in State College. I want to see the total truth come out even if it is sickening. I believe the administrators who failed to act should be prosecuted. I believe that Joe did what was legally required but completely whiffed on his moral obligations - even if, as claimed, he didn't really understand what he was being told he should have demanded someone look into the issue completely because he had the power to do that. (I find that excuse thin - he was planning to become an attorney before coming to work for Rip Engle so he was not an idiot)

What I do not agree with is punishing the current players as there was NO competitive advantage gained. Don't give me the "damaged reputation" argument. Had Sandusky been kicked off campus entirely and investigated (and prosecuted) in 2001 no one would have thought anything more about it even though there were apparently properly investigated allegations from 1998 because those allegations *were* investigated by law enforcement. It is almost as though the dipshiats in charge didn't learn anything from Watergate OR the Catholic Church. (And further lacked the moral fiber to protect children above all else)


How can you punish a program without punishing the student-athletes? You can't. How can you punish the athletic department and insulate the academic programs from financial liability? You can't. This is what you sign up to when you create an academic institution that contains an athletic program so big that it becomes the focal point of the university. In the Freeh report it even states that they didn't report Sandusky because of a culture that wanted to protect the reputation of the program and university as a whole no matter the cost. It's nice to see that these professors and yourself are proving that report to be true.
 
2012-08-29 02:13:27 PM  

Dr_luckyz: This isn't snarky, but what do you think is an appropriate punishment? I don't get why we never hear this complaint when schools lose scholarships for smaller violations, but i hear non-stop now how the players shouldn't be hurt for something they didn't do?


I don't have a problem with the vacated wins - it's an FU to Joe but so be it. He farked up.

I don't have a problem with the $60 million fine - on the basis some good comes of it.

I don't have a problem with probation - Penn State has never had a compliance problem in regards to athletics so I'm not concerned about future violations of NCAA bylaws.

I don't believe that I have a big problem with the scholarship reductions - this is the most punishing part. It certainly will hurt.

I do have a problem with the bowl ban - on the basis I would have required bowl money to go along with the fine - ie the school could not benefit financially from participating but the current players would have the opportunity to go.

I do have a problem with the immediate transfer offer - seems like a perversion of "amateur" athletics to have opposing schools coaches crawling all over town and campus trying to poach players. 

I do believe the NCAA should have conducted its own investigation even if they came to the same conclusions. I do believe the NCAA should have followed its established procedures in handing down sanctions. And I do believe that if I were negotiating and a four year death penalty was threatened I'd tell them to fark off and I'd see them in court. The last thing the NCAA wants is judicial review of its powers.
 
2012-08-29 02:18:53 PM  

Negligible: How can you punish a program without punishing the student-athletes? You can't. How can you punish the athletic department and insulate the academic programs from financial liability? You can't. This is what you sign up to when you create an academic institution that contains an athletic program so big that it becomes the focal point of the university. In the Freeh report it even states that they didn't report Sandusky because of a culture that wanted to protect the reputation of the program and university as a whole no matter the cost. It's nice to see that these professors and yourself are proving that report to be true.


Since nuance doesn't seem to be your strong suit I'll explain it a little clearer.

The student athletes who are present today did not gain any advantage as a result of the inaction of the administration. You can punish the program without punishing the athletes present today through monetary fines and reductions of FUTURE scholarships.

Further, if you had some semblance of reading comprehension, you would have found that I am all for full disclosure and believe that the best course of action in 2001 would have been to report Sandusky to law enforcement and kick him off campus - but you are right about one thing, not only would it have been the right thing to do but it would have preserved the standing and reputation of the university as there would not have been a cover up.
 
2012-08-29 02:23:38 PM  

slykens1: I do have a problem with the immediate transfer offer - seems like a perversion of "amateur" athletics to have opposing schools coaches crawling all over town and campus trying to poach players.


If we're going to pile on the NCAA for punishing the current students and student-athletes (which they always do, let's face it), then it's only fair if they did not grant immediate transfer status to PSU players then they'd be called out as assholes for that as well.

Plus, everything the NCAA has done over the past decade has seemed like a perversion of amateur athletics, honestly.
 
2012-08-29 02:24:59 PM  

slykens1: I don't have a problem with the $60 million fine - on the basis some good comes of it.


The problem with the $60m fine is the mandate that it can't come from the Athletic department. Which is basically the NCAA saying, "You need to pay money to satisfy us, but it can't hurt anything that helps keep our own payroll going."
 
2012-08-29 02:30:39 PM  

Killer Cars: Plus, everything the NCAA has done over the past decade has seemed like a perversion of amateur athletics, honestly.


The NCAA's primary goal is to serve as a AAA club for the NFL and NBA. Same with any Div I school's athletic department.

Academics and anything related to what a institute of higher education is actually for is a far distant second.

On the grade change comment, I figure that's a shot at North Carolina.
 
2012-08-29 02:30:40 PM  

slykens1: I do have a problem with the immediate transfer offer - seems like a perversion of "amateur" athletics to have opposing schools coaches crawling all over town and campus trying to poach players.


transfer without penalties should always be allowed when a school is punished by the ncaa (it usually is) or if the coach leaves. actually fark conditions, it should just always be allowed. penn state doesn't own those players. if they want to go to school elsewhere, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
 
2012-08-29 02:32:45 PM  

slykens1: Further, if you had some semblance of reading comprehension, you would have found that I am all for full disclosure and believe that the best course of action in 2001 would have been to report Sandusky to law enforcement and kick him off campus - but you are right about one thing, not only would it have been the right thing to do but it would have preserved the standing and reputation of the university as there would not have been a cover up.


Which seems all too obvious, especially for bureaucrats and people who otherwise don't have much affiliation with the football program. So, we have two differing schools of thought: One of which believes that Joe Paterno had so much power that he stopped state agencies from investigating accusations in the '90s, that he got Sandusky emeritus status after he fired him, and that he ensured that the other people involved wouldn't tell the cops. The other one believes that the actual scandal probably extends beyond Penn State and probably doesn't have anything to do with football - rather involves people who donated to Sandusky's "charity" and had ties to PSU who also held high-level state positions.

What's weird is that the people that blame Paterno accuse the other people of elevating him to godlike, when their opinion seems to be that he was.
 
2012-08-29 02:34:09 PM  

TheOther: Forget that 4-year death penalty crap and boot PSU from the NCAA completely.


You know, I've been wondering about that: what if the NCAA had just simply said, "Penn State is no longer an NCAA member school. PSU athletic programs are no longer entitled to the benefits of NCAA membership."? Could the NCAA sanction programs that scheduled games against PSU, or would that be a violation of anti-trust laws? Could they say, "You can play against PSU, but we won't count those games; it will be just like you had an open date on your calendar."?

And if the NCAA threw out Penn State, could PSU be the foundation of a new, "rogue", college athletic organization? Could PSU go to some of the other schools that have had problems with the NCAA and say, "Hey, come join us. Our regulations are much looser. You can pay players. You can offer more scholarships. Etc."?
 
2012-08-29 02:41:09 PM  

Unauthorized Bratwurst: You know, I've been wondering about that: what if the NCAA had just simply said, "Penn State is no longer an NCAA member school. PSU athletic programs are no longer entitled to the benefits of NCAA membership."? Could the NCAA sanction programs that scheduled games against PSU, or would that be a violation of anti-trust laws? Could they say, "You can play against PSU, but we won't count those games; it will be just like you had an open date on your calendar."?


As an NCAA member you are not generally permitted to play non-members competitively.

Had this been the NCAA's action there would have been anti-trust litigation brought against the NCAA that likely would have completely neutered it.

Remember, the NCAA lost an anti-trust lawsuit in 1984 in regards to TV rights. I'm pretty comfortable another anti-trust lawsuit would have the same result which is why I believe the NCAA structured the sanctions as a consent decree void of appeals.
 
2012-08-29 02:49:54 PM  

Spade: slykens1: I don't have a problem with the $60 million fine - on the basis some good comes of it.

The problem with the $60m fine is the mandate that it can't come from the Athletic department. Which is basically the NCAA saying, "You need to pay money to satisfy us, but it can't hurt anything that helps keep our own payroll going."


I think the reason for that mandate was to prevent PSU from shutting down umpteen other sports to pay the fine, which would screw over the kids in those programs. I'd say that interferes with the NCAA's revenue stream too, but I doubt they make that much on Penn State basketball or wrestling.
 
2012-08-29 03:06:23 PM  

Meatschool: Spade: slykens1: I don't have a problem with the $60 million fine - on the basis some good comes of it.

The problem with the $60m fine is the mandate that it can't come from the Athletic department. Which is basically the NCAA saying, "You need to pay money to satisfy us, but it can't hurt anything that helps keep our own payroll going."

I think the reason for that mandate was to prevent PSU from shutting down umpteen other sports to pay the fine, which would screw over the kids in those programs. I'd say that interferes with the NCAA's revenue stream too, but I doubt they make that much on Penn State basketball or wrestling.


Which then says that those "umpteen other sports" are still more important in the NCAA's eyes than any academic program that might see its budget impacted by the fine. Which shows the importance the NCAA places on academics (this can also be seen at North Carolina).
 
2012-08-29 03:09:23 PM  

Spade: Which shows the importance the NCAA places on academics (this can also be seen at North Carolina).


Good point.
 
2012-08-29 03:12:59 PM  

Meatschool: Spade: Which shows the importance the NCAA places on academics (this can also be seen at North Carolina).

Good point.


So the National Collegiate Athletics Association is primarily concerned with governing athletics?
 
2012-08-29 03:24:56 PM  

mikaloyd: I bet Lasaga and Hiroshi Ohmoto sogned on to the complaint too.


I'm sure they had the full support of Neisworth.

You know PSU faculty, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

static.thecia.com.au
 
2012-08-29 03:27:26 PM  

IAmRight: Meatschool: Spade: Which shows the importance the NCAA places on academics (this can also be seen at North Carolina).

Good point.

So the National Collegiate Athletics Association is primarily concerned with governing athletics?


Of course they are, but certainly they must be considering academics at some point... else it wouldn't matter what grades the students have at all, would it? (Unless I'm mistaken and academic eligibility, etc is determined entirely by the member school and not the NCAA, in which case never mind).
 
2012-08-29 03:33:24 PM  

IAmRight: Meatschool: Spade: Which shows the importance the NCAA places on academics (this can also be seen at North Carolina).

Good point.

So the National Collegiate Athletics Association is primarily concerned with governing athletics?


If they're totally unconnected with academics, the primary purpose of a college or university, then they shouldn't be affiliated with colleges at all.

Which is what I'd like, personally. But I'm also a fan of banning athletic scholarships.
 
2012-08-29 03:34:09 PM  
It's funny how few people understand that "Organizations" are punished monitarily all of the time for the actions of individuals in them. Join the real world. Penn St. got what it deserved from the NCAA and the law suits will likely give the victims some type of large monetary settlement too...Good for them.

And since the President of the University was involved in the cover up, then it actually reaches outside of the Athletic Deparment itself...No one outside of Penn St employees made this more of an issue than it should have been had it been squashed initially.
 
2012-08-29 03:34:24 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism:
img.gawkerassets.com


We already knew tOSU fans liked to get buggered.

This is not a surprise.
 
2012-08-29 03:47:45 PM  

LesserEvil: antidisestablishmentarianism:
[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

We already knew tOSU fans liked to get buggered.

This is not a surprise.


Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?
 
2012-08-29 03:55:37 PM  

Spade: If they're totally unconnected with academics, the primary purpose of a college or university, then they shouldn't be affiliated with colleges at all.


There are no 40,000-member institutions with one singular purpose, and to propose elimination of everything not working toward one particular goal.
 
2012-08-29 03:56:01 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Tough call. If I'd been a prof there for twenty years, didn't give two shiats about football (and let's face it, there's tons of profs like that at every school) and knew damn well I gave players no preferential treatment I would probably be pissed and want to say something about it. Then again if I were a prof I'd probably be pretty smart and realize that the public sentiment was against any kind of defense in this matter and I'd realize I was just pissing into the wind anyway.


If I was a prof I'd be thankful that they didn't investigate the entire school's administration, faculty, and staff after Sandusky, Lasaga, and Neisworth.

/seriously, PSU, you need to STFU and just go away for a while
 
2012-08-29 03:58:01 PM  

IAmRight: Spade: If they're totally unconnected with academics, the primary purpose of a college or university, then they shouldn't be affiliated with colleges at all.

There are no 40,000-member institutions with one singular purpose, and to propose elimination of everything not working toward one particular goal.


Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

www.hotel-online.com

/PSU got a wrist slap only because it was a university
 
2012-08-29 04:01:06 PM  

beta_plus: Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

www.hotel-online.com

/PSU got a wrist slap only because it was a university


If PSU goes out of business because students stop applying your analogy will improve.

I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
2012-08-29 04:08:48 PM  

beta_plus: Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

[www.hotel-online.com image 225x105]


I'm supposed to tell them that in a large organization, there are many different facets of the business with many different jobs? Or were you meaning to quote another post?

In any case, no agency forced AA to close their doors. The people lost their jobs because no one wanted to hire the organization, which meant there was no money to pay anyone. People still want to go to PSU, so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

/not that relevancy or thought really has anything to do with most of the "punish MOAR" crowd
 
2012-08-29 04:12:10 PM  

IAmRight: beta_plus: Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

[www.hotel-online.com image 225x105]

I'm supposed to tell them that in a large organization, there are many different facets of the business with many different jobs? Or were you meaning to quote another post?

In any case, no agency forced AA to close their doors. The people lost their jobs because no one wanted to hire the organization, which meant there was no money to pay anyone. People still want to go to PSU, so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

/not that relevancy or thought really has anything to do with most of the "punish MOAR" crowd


Who is forcing PSU to close it's doors?
 
2012-08-29 04:15:42 PM  

IAmRight: In any case, no agency forced AA to close their doors. The people lost their jobs because no one wanted to hire the organization, which meant there was no money to pay anyone. People still want to go to PSU, so your comparison is completely irrelevant.


A lot of the people probably didn't even lose their jobs. Big parts of the company were parted out and sold to other companies to wash the stink off and kept operating more or less as before.
 
2012-08-29 04:20:04 PM  

beta_plus: LesserEvil: antidisestablishmentarianism:
[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

We already knew tOSU fans liked to get buggered.

This is not a surprise.

Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?


No, I'm not into that sort of thing, myself. Just saying we already knew Buckeye fans liked that sort of thing. Something to do with their overpowering love of nuts.
 
2012-08-29 04:22:19 PM  

ongbok: Who is forcing PSU to close it's doors?


No one. No one said they were. But again, your side makes stupid comparisons, then acts as though pointing out how stupid those comparisons are is asserting something else. Nah, we're just saying you're stupid.
 
2012-08-29 04:24:15 PM  
Holy crap. Dr. Pytel was the Dean of the College of Engineering back when I was at PSU. Nice lady, too. She helped me through a lot of administrative issues. I can't believe she signed on to this nonsense. For one thing, the Freeh Report doesn't accuse Penn State of putting football above academics, just above the university's normal rules and, of course, the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the United States. For another, it looks like the fine won't hit Penn State's academic side. They're using the athletics reserve fund and capital maintenance budget to pay for it. So they'll have to hold off on some building renovations; boo friggin' hoo.
 
2012-08-29 04:43:40 PM  

IAmRight: ongbok: Who is forcing PSU to close it's doors?

No one. No one said they were. But again, your side makes stupid comparisons, then acts as though pointing out how stupid those comparisons are is asserting something else. Nah, we're just saying you're stupid.


We are stupid because we realize that when people in an organization makes decisions that causes an organization to break the law, that people that were never involved in those decisions are negatively impacted along with the ones that made the decisions?

See people like you are stupid because you want everything to go away no harm no foul because PSU football and the schools reputation will be effected. Then you are using the lie that the people want to punish PSU only because they are jealous of the success of the school and think everybody associated with the school supports child rape to hide the real reason why you don't want the school to be sanctioned.
 
2012-08-29 04:44:35 PM  

LesserEvil: beta_plus: LesserEvil: antidisestablishmentarianism:
[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

We already knew tOSU fans liked to get buggered.

This is not a surprise.

Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?

No, I'm not into that sort of thing, myself. Just saying we already knew Buckeye fans liked that sort of thing. Something to do with their overpowering love of nuts.


I don't think Sandusky's victims were into that sort of thing either.
 
2012-08-29 04:45:18 PM  

slykens1: Dr_luckyz: This isn't snarky, but what do you think is an appropriate punishment? I don't get why we never hear this complaint when schools lose scholarships for smaller violations, but i hear non-stop now how the players shouldn't be hurt for something they didn't do?

I don't have a problem with the vacated wins - it's an FU to Joe but so be it. He farked up.

I don't have a problem with the $60 million fine - on the basis some good comes of it.

I don't have a problem with probation - Penn State has never had a compliance problem in regards to athletics so I'm not concerned about future violations of NCAA bylaws.

I don't believe that I have a big problem with the scholarship reductions - this is the most punishing part. It certainly will hurt.

I do have a problem with the bowl ban - on the basis I would have required bowl money to go along with the fine - ie the school could not benefit financially from participating but the current players would have the opportunity to go.

I do have a problem with the immediate transfer offer - seems like a perversion of "amateur" athletics to have opposing schools coaches crawling all over town and campus trying to poach players. 

I do believe the NCAA should have conducted its own investigation even if they came to the same conclusions. I do believe the NCAA should have followed its established procedures in handing down sanctions. And I do believe that if I were negotiating and a four year death penalty was threatened I'd tell them to fark off and I'd see them in court. The last thing the NCAA wants is judicial review of its powers.


I don't understand how any of this makes any sense. You don't wan't the current players to be punished yet you're against the immediate transfer offer? You don't want the current players to be punished because they had nothing to do with it but you're okay with the past players having their victories and championships nullified even though they had nothing to do with it?

I don't think you get it, the football program is being punished. It is impossible to punish the football program at Penn State without also punishing the people who take part in the football program. So you punish the fark out of the football program and let players who had nothing to do with it leave if they want. That's how you achieve the goal you say you want. Instead, you're asking for the exact opposite. Force the players to stay, take away their scholarships and cut their playing budget by $12 million a year for 5 years. Man, you're kinda a dick.
 
2012-08-29 04:46:46 PM  

ongbok: See people like you are stupid because you want everything to go away no harm no foul because PSU football and the schools reputation will be effected.


Number of people that have said that: Zero.
 
2012-08-29 04:46:51 PM  

WTF Indeed: You also can't seem to grasp the idea that while those connected to Penn State are outraged at the actions profiled in the Freed Report, they are also insulted at the insinuation that the entire PSU school is filled with people who support pedophiles.


This.
 
2012-08-29 04:48:39 PM  

IAmRight: beta_plus: Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

[www.hotel-online.com image 225x105]

I'm supposed to tell them that in a large organization, there are many different facets of the business with many different jobs? Or were you meaning to quote another post?

In any case, no agency forced AA to close their doors. The people lost their jobs because no one wanted to hire the organization, which meant there was no money to pay anyone. People still want to go to PSU, so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

/not that relevancy or thought really has anything to do with most of the "punish MOAR" crowd


Their clients "voluntarily" left because AA had their legal ability to audit revoked, but let's not let troubling things like "facts" get in the way.

The simple fact is that if a corporation had done what PSU did in multiple departments you would be screaming for its destruction. You're only giving it a pass because it's a university.
 
2012-08-29 04:50:39 PM  

beta_plus: The simple fact is that if a corporation had done what PSU did in multiple departments you would be screaming for its destruction. You're only giving it a pass because it's a university.


Meh, not really. I'm fine with the people that knew (and didn't tell) doing jail time. I just don't have the bloodlust for vengeance that people seem to.
 
2012-08-29 05:28:06 PM  

IAmRight: ongbok: See people like you are stupid because you want everything to go away no harm no foul because PSU football and the schools reputation will be effected.

Number of people that have said that: Zero.


Did you read the rest of what I posted? If you did you would see that I said that this is why you don't want PSU punished, and to hide this you trot out all of these other ridiculous lies about why people want the school sanctioned.
 
2012-08-29 05:39:01 PM  
The Penn State folks should count themselves lucky that the NCAA didn't have the guts to do the right thing and impose the death penalty. They have no standing whatsoever to complain, having already gotten off far too easy for blatantly unethical reasons.
 
2012-08-29 05:56:02 PM  

beta_plus: LesserEvil: beta_plus: LesserEvil: antidisestablishmentarianism:
[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x360]

We already knew tOSU fans liked to get buggered.

This is not a surprise.

Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?

No, I'm not into that sort of thing, myself. Just saying we already knew Buckeye fans liked that sort of thing. Something to do with their overpowering love of nuts.

I don't think Sandusky's victims were into that sort of thing either.


I don't think so either. I don't think any of his victims were Buckeye fans.
 
2012-08-29 06:22:56 PM  

IAmRight: beta_plus: The simple fact is that if a corporation had done what PSU did in multiple departments you would be screaming for its destruction. You're only giving it a pass because it's a university.

Meh, not really. I'm fine with the people that knew (and didn't tell) doing jail time. I just don't have the bloodlust for vengeance that people seem to.


It isn't bloodlust or vengeance though, it is a message to the organization and the other NCAA member organizations that if they cover up heinous crimes, they will be severely punished. Or to put it another way, they are setting a precedent.
 
2012-08-29 06:29:00 PM  
CNN SI is reporting that allllll those shiny trophies have to be returned

/ ohsnap.jpg
 
2012-08-29 07:31:23 PM  

WTF Indeed: You do realize that the Freed Report did not show any on field violations, which is the only thing the NCAA can legislate.


You do realize this is not true.
 
2012-08-29 09:14:29 PM  

LesserEvil: Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?

No, I'm not into that sort of thing, myself.


Are you suggesting that the victims were "into that sort of thing"?
 
2012-08-29 09:46:13 PM  

srhp29: LesserEvil: Wow, you sound butthurt. Did you have too many shower sessions with Sandusky?

No, I'm not into that sort of thing, myself.

Are you suggesting that the victims were "into that sort of thing"?


Nope, that's why they are "victims".

I do not believe any of the victims were Buckeye fans. What Sandusky did to those children was horrendous... and Penn State was LUCKY to get out of this without worse punishment. Their faculty needs to STFU and GBTW.

This whole comment stream started because of a tOSU fan shirt stating they'd rather shower with Sandusky than cheer for the Wolverines. I do not find that surprising, given how much they love nuts.

Please try and keep up, if you are going to inject yourself into a discussion.
 
2012-08-29 10:40:39 PM  

LesserEvil: inject yourself


LOL, given the context of the thread.
 
2012-08-29 11:40:39 PM  

lacrossestar83: Fark this "adjective noun is adjective" meme.

/and Penn State


Butthurt meme haters are butthurt, haters.

:-)
 
2012-08-29 11:46:33 PM  
i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-30 12:00:07 AM  

IAmRight: beta_plus: Tell that to the guys who used to work here:

[www.hotel-online.com image 225x105]

I'm supposed to tell them that in a large organization, there are many different facets of the business with many different jobs? Or were you meaning to quote another post?

In any case, no agency forced AA to close their doors. The people lost their jobs because no one wanted to hire the organization, which meant there was no money to pay anyone. People still want to go to PSU, so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

/not that relevancy or thought really has anything to do with most of the "punish MOAR" crowd


You used to come off as the devil's advocate, and now you're just a troll. Welcome to ignore!
 
2012-08-30 01:16:54 AM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: lacrossestar83: Fark this "adjective noun is adjective" meme.

/and Penn State

Butthurt meme haters are butthurt, haters.

:-)


[FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.jpg]
 
2012-08-30 09:43:15 AM  

LeafyGreens: You used to come off as the devil's advocate, and now you're just a troll. Welcome to ignore!


Someone I've never seen post is ignoring me! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
2012-08-30 02:41:22 PM  

LesserEvil: This whole comment stream started because of a tOSU fan shirt stating they'd rather shower with Sandusky than cheer for the Wolverines. I do not find that surprising, given how much they love nuts.


I showed that picture to some OSU fans and they thought that shirt was disgusting. Every team has its very own group of loser fans who think stuff like that is hilarious.
 
2012-08-30 03:22:47 PM  

srhp29: LesserEvil: This whole comment stream started because of a tOSU fan shirt stating they'd rather shower with Sandusky than cheer for the Wolverines. I do not find that surprising, given how much they love nuts.

I showed that picture to some OSU fans and they thought that shirt was disgusting. Every team has its very own group of loser fans who think stuff like that is hilarious.


In fairness I used "tOSU" instead of "OSU" - the kind of thing that matters to is a special sort of fan. Generally, those are the ones I'm talking about... the kind who have the complete "Dead Schembechlers" record collection and open every season throwing beer bottles at passing cars with Michigan plates.

If given a chance to shower Sandusky-style with Woody Hayes, they'd welcome it.
 
2012-08-30 05:59:44 PM  

LesserEvil: srhp29: LesserEvil: This whole comment stream started because of a tOSU fan shirt stating they'd rather shower with Sandusky than cheer for the Wolverines. I do not find that surprising, given how much they love nuts.

I showed that picture to some OSU fans and they thought that shirt was disgusting. Every team has its very own group of loser fans who think stuff like that is hilarious.

In fairness I used "tOSU" instead of "OSU" - the kind of thing that matters to is a special sort of fan. Generally, those are the ones I'm talking about... the kind who have the complete "Dead Schembechlers" record collection and open every season throwing beer bottles at passing cars with Michigan plates.

If given a chance to shower Sandusky-style with Woody Hayes, they'd welcome it.


I merely forgot the "t"...I usually put the lower case t in front as well.

There is being a fan...and there is being ridiculous. In the end, sports don't matter for shiat.

I'm a big fan of a lot of teams but their winning or losing has almost zero affect on my life.
 
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