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(Daily Mail)   SEAL Team Six member claims that contrary to reports, Bin Laden put up no fight. "In all of my deployments, we routinely saw this phenomenon. The higher up the food chain the targeted individual was, the bigger a pussy he was"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 265
    More: Interesting, Osama bin Laden, the pentagon, U.S. Special Operations Command, suicide vest, military secret, third floor, September 11 attacks, Director of National Intelligence  
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12764 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2012 at 9:43 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-29 11:46:55 AM  

Magorn: I'd take anything this guy says with a serious grain of salt. He's good enough to be on the elite SEAL team six, but too stupid to understand the documents he signed when getting his security clearance about anything he writes needing to be cleared in a pre-publication review? Though I dobt OBama would allow the DOJ to prosecute this guy, he basically just committed a federal felony that can get you up to ten years in jail, but, much more unforigvably may have risked exposing the other members of his "boat" to make a buck. Putting yourself before your team is an unforgiveable sin in the SEAL world


If anything I'd imagine this is a plan of some propaganda department. He's probably just following their orders.
 
2012-08-29 11:48:53 AM  
I'm also amused that anybody thinks that anybody in America who doesn't hate Obama gives a shiat what Bin Laden was doing when he was killed.

As far as most people are concerned, Bin Laden was killed 10 years too late. And that's it.

If anybody has a reason to be mad about the mission, it's the Pakistani government, because it made them look like the corrupt, incompetent, unreliable "allies" that they really are.
 
2012-08-29 11:49:06 AM  
The Republicans are really grasping at straws when they try to portray Obama as having taken credit for killing OBL, denying credit to the Seals who were actually there. What was he supposed to do, exactly? Book a timeslot on television to give a speech along the lines of "Osama bin Laden has been killed by brave Navy Seals. Although I authorized it, I am a terrible president and a coward, and all credit should go to the Seals and the previous president, George W. Bush. I humbly resign in disgrace. Also John Kerry faked injuries to win his Purple Hearts, because he knew he would run for president some day. In fact, there have never been any war heroes who were Democrats, ever."

Because if that's what they're waiting for, you might almost think they were irrational people.
 
2012-08-29 11:51:25 AM  

clyph: Obama ran as a progressive; as president he's been a moderate conservative. That hasn't escaped people's notice. They'll still vote for him the second time around because a moderate conservative is better than a reactionary one most people have the political acumen of lemmings and are easily manipulated by simplistic rhetoric and empty promises.


FTFY.

/Applies equally to (R) and (D) voters
 
2012-08-29 11:52:15 AM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: I joined the biggest, most heavily funded, technologically efficient, fighting force in the world. Obviously that means I'm a badass.

Have you ever met one of these guys? They aren't badass because of the service they joined - plenty of us joined the same service, and aren't nearly as hard core as they are. They are bad ass because they have an unbelievable willpower, ability to take the harshest of punishments and environments and still keep moving forward, and incredibly disciplined minds. If SF didn't exist, they'd likely be badass at something else.

I hope he understands the guys behind computers that set the whole thing up and made sure he knew the situation are just as bad ass as he is.

I've been behind those computers. I am proud of my service. We weren't nearly as badass as the operators on the ground.


I've known several (retired). Without the full military might behind them, they are just like you and me.
 
2012-08-29 11:54:48 AM  

soy_bomb: [www.pjmedia.com image 500x729]
Obama killed Osama. Seal Team 6 was there just to observe and learn.

/Biden was piloting the stealth blackhawk


Sorry he doesn't match up with your "White House jet-pilot war hero" image of W. now He was a hero.
 
2012-08-29 11:55:31 AM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: I joined the biggest, most heavily funded, technologically efficient, fighting force in the world. Obviously that means I'm a badass.

Have you ever met one of these guys? They aren't badass because of the service they joined - plenty of us joined the same service, and aren't nearly as hard core as they are. They are bad ass because they have an unbelievable willpower, ability to take the harshest of punishments and environments and still keep moving forward, and incredibly disciplined minds. If SF didn't exist, they'd likely be badass at something else.

I hope he understands the guys behind computers that set the whole thing up and made sure he knew the situation are just as bad ass as he is.

I've been behind those computers. I am proud of my service. We weren't nearly as badass as the operators on the ground.


Also, could they do what you did? Without you they would be dead in those situations.
 
2012-08-29 11:55:46 AM  

Shadune: Dear SEAL Team 6 members:
Please kindly go back to doing your awesome job and STFU.


+1. I choked.
 
2012-08-29 11:56:52 AM  

spacelord321: I've known several (retired). Without the full military might behind them, they are just like you and me.


We're going to have to agree to disagree. Everyone has more or less of various traits, and the SEALs I've met and/or worked with all seem to be on the high end of the bell curve when it comes to physical prowess, metal toughness, and willpower. Are they human? Absolutely. Are they better at the requirements of their job than 99% of the rest of humanity would be if they attempted it? Absolutely.
 
2012-08-29 12:00:51 PM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: I've known several (retired). Without the full military might behind them, they are just like you and me.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Everyone has more or less of various traits, and the SEALs I've met and/or worked with all seem to be on the high end of the bell curve when it comes to physical prowess, metal toughness, and willpower. Are they human? Absolutely. Are they better at the requirements of their job than 99% of the rest of humanity would be if they attempted it? Absolutely.


You need to get out more, and meet more of humanity. But, as you said, we will agree to disagree.
 
2012-08-29 12:02:02 PM  

spacelord321: Also, could they do what you did? Without you they would be dead in those situations.


Could they? Depends which job we're talking about. My seagoing job was on a sub - every SEAL I've met has stated unequivocally that they would go crazy stuck in a metal tube underwater for that length of time. My shore tours have, in one fashion or another, been behind a computer in a support role, sometimes for them. Could they do that job? Yeah, we even had a retired SEAL working with us. He'd have much preferred being back in the field, though.

And I don't know that I have the hubris to say that they'd have been dead without me. In the earlier days of SpecWar, they didn't have nearly the support structure they do now, and they still got the job done. Now they just do it more efficiently, more quickly, and with cooler toys.
 
2012-08-29 12:02:53 PM  

clevershark: As for Bin Laden, well, why would he even bother fighting back? He knew the guys in black were there to kill him, period. If the US "buried him at sea" just to get rid of the body, you can bet your ass that there were NO plans for OBL to be alive at the end of the operation. This was an assassination from the start.


Yeah, but you say that like it's wrong or something
 
2012-08-29 12:05:02 PM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: Also, could they do what you did? Without you they would be dead in those situations.

Could they? Depends which job we're talking about. My seagoing job was on a sub - every SEAL I've met has stated unequivocally that they would go crazy stuck in a metal tube underwater for that length of time. My shore tours have, in one fashion or another, been behind a computer in a support role, sometimes for them. Could they do that job? Yeah, we even had a retired SEAL working with us. He'd have much preferred being back in the field, though.

And I don't know that I have the hubris to say that they'd have been dead without me. In the earlier days of SpecWar, they didn't have nearly the support structure they do now, and they still got the job done. Now they just do it more efficiently, more quickly, and with cooler toys.


They didn't always get the job done. I would bet that many of times they died. Whole team.
 
2012-08-29 12:06:05 PM  

spacelord321: You need to get out more, and meet more of humanity. But, as you said, we will agree to disagree.


I've met plenty, thanks. I've also spent the last 6 years or so doing support work for various SF groups, so I've met a lot of them. I am a pretty proud person, but they are definitely a breed apart.
 
2012-08-29 12:07:14 PM  
I have an acquaintance who's a SEAL and this is nothing new. He was telling me last year (well before this story out) that all of the higher-ups in Al-Qaida in the Taliban that he's had to "deal with" have shiated and pissed themselves silly and rolled up into a ball when cornered.
 
2012-08-29 12:07:48 PM  

BillCo: It's good to know that the White House didn't let the facts get in the way of a good story. 

Obamarambo?


thepoliticalcarnival.net
 
2012-08-29 12:10:04 PM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: Also, could they do what you did? Without you they would be dead in those situations.

Could they? Depends which job we're talking about. My seagoing job was on a sub - every SEAL I've met has stated unequivocally that they would go crazy stuck in a metal tube underwater for that length of time. My shore tours have, in one fashion or another, been behind a computer in a support role, sometimes for them. Could they do that job? Yeah, we even had a retired SEAL working with us. He'd have much preferred being back in the field, though.

And I don't know that I have the hubris to say that they'd have been dead without me. In the earlier days of SpecWar, they didn't have nearly the support structure they do now, and they still got the job done. Now they just do it more efficiently, more quickly, and with cooler toys.


Didn't you know cloud computing killed bin laden? eleventy!
 
2012-08-29 12:10:25 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: What's amusing to me is how, according to some people, if a leader (the president, for example) authorizes a military action and it fails, he gets almost all the blame (like the failed hostage rescue mission Jimmy Carter got the blame for in 1980), but if it succeeds, he's not supposed to get any credit for it.

Unless, of course, he dresses up in a flight suit and struts onto an aircraft carrier in front of a gigantic banner that says "Mission Accomplished." Then he's cool.

If the Bin Laden mission had failed, we'd still be hearing about how Obama farked it up and gave aid and comfort to the enemy. Congress probably would have initiated treason charges against him or some ridiculous shiat like that.

I bet they hate him more for the success than they ever would have if it had failed. A failed mission they would have been able to use in their PR for decades. But a success? Worthless to them, politically.

Not that any of them has the balls to admit it.


The problem is that national security is the one thing Republicans used to be able to trust they could win support on and it's just not happening anymore. As of CNN's polling on Sunday Obama has a 7 point lead over Romney on both who they trust more on matters of national security (51-44) and who they trust more to fight terrorism (50-43). The only issues with a bigger gap were gay/lesbian rights (59-33 Obama), illegal immigration (52-42 Romney), abortion (53-40 Obama), and the budget deficit (52-42 Romney). All the other big stuff was in the margin of error (welfare, energy, health care, Medicare, and taxes lean Obama; the economy in general leans Romney).

This election will not be won or lost on defense issues, but they need to nip this in the bud. If people start thinking a Democratic president may not be inherently terrible at foreign policy future election cycles may be at stake.
 
2012-08-29 12:11:48 PM  

calm like a bomb: Oh, just farking go away. Nobody respects anything you have to say. Personally I think you're a sock puppet for a modmin, since you always post once at the beginning of a thread and then pussy out.


My question is this.

Is BillCo just a deeply demented right wing dittohead with enough free time to Weeners in any thread where he has even a chance of sniping at Obama? Or is he just the worst and least funny troll on teh intrawebs??
 
2012-08-29 12:14:38 PM  

trappedspirit: clevershark: As for Bin Laden, well, why would he even bother fighting back? He knew the guys in black were there to kill him, period. If the US "buried him at sea" just to get rid of the body, you can bet your ass that there were NO plans for OBL to be alive at the end of the operation. This was an assassination from the start.
Yeah, but you say that like it's wrong or something


I'd never heard a story that OBL "fought back" or anything of that stripe. I always thought it was pretty much a slam dunk operation: They came in, found him upstairs, and blew him away before he had time to react.

And who farking cares if Biden told lame jokes? Are you not entertained, Seal Team Six? Who cares?
 
2012-08-29 12:15:19 PM  

Shadune: Dear SEAL Team 6 members:
Please kindly go back to doing your awesome job and STFU.


Exactly... It wasn't Bush's policies that led them there to kill him.
 
2012-08-29 12:16:21 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Uisce Beatha: SEAL ≠ soldier
SEAL = sailor

FFS

yeah, that pisses me off too. I also hate it when people use "soldier" when talking about a member of the Marine Core


I was soldering on my marine core mercruiser battery the other day at the harbour. Some sailer came up from under the boat, said his scube tank was out and asked for some air, man.
 
2012-08-29 12:16:51 PM  

soy_bomb: calm like a bomb: rpl: Wow. SEAL member, writer, session bass player. Is there anything Matt Bissonette can't do?

Keep his farking mouth shut, evidently.

You are welcome to try to shut it for him.


Speak when spoken to, douchenozzle.
 
2012-08-29 12:18:52 PM  
Magnus: "I don't know anyone on the right that isn't happy that OBL is dead"

Yes, they're fine with him being dead. They just never want to talk about it, or give Obama credit for following through with what the previous administration gave up on, or talk about how this whole situation was basically proof that at least some portion of Pakistan's military or intelligence agency was sitting on the guy and thus McCain's policies would have also failed to bring him down, even if he found the motivation to pursue OBL again.

They just want to talk about the propriety of "politicizing" such a thing. As if there's a politician alive who didn't or wouldn't politicize any popular military action, regardless of propriety. It's the old partisan two-step: where you give a pass to your team and hold the other guys to a higher standard.

There aren't many things that "both sides do" in objective reality. But this is definitely one of them.
 
2012-08-29 12:20:35 PM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: You need to get out more, and meet more of humanity. But, as you said, we will agree to disagree.

I've met plenty, thanks. I've also spent the last 6 years or so doing support work for various SF groups, so I've met a lot of them. I am a pretty proud person, but they are definitely a breed apart.


Ok. No offense intended. Got a little carried away with the common vernacular.

That said, I have spent time with many of martial artists who I'm certain would give any SEAL an even fight. I've also met many a straight up badass criminals that never back down, and never have to. Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight. The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill, and the absence of the most heavily funded backup support known to man.
 
2012-08-29 12:21:35 PM  

granulorhoek: Way to put country first, douche.


Exactly. This jack-hole is going against the Navy SEAL tradition of keeping you farkin mouth shut.

Furthermore, he is OBVIOUSLY a partisan who is trying to help the Republicans.

* Bissonnette writes disparagingly that none of the SEALs were fans of President Barack Obama and knew that his administration would take credit for ordering the May 2011 raid

(way to respect the commander in chief there skippy. )

* He says Biden told 'lame jokes' no one understood, reminding him of 'someone's drunken uncle at Christmas dinner.'

(sounds relevant to the Bin Laden raid and politically impartial to me, asshat)

* the book did not undergo the formal review required by the Pentagon for works published by former or current Defense Department employees

(so screw the country and screw the rules, you want to cash in and take a few cheap shots at the BLAH person in the whitehouse, right?)

Yeah, this guy sounds like a real American Hero to me. I bet the other SEALS on the team would like to kick his ass right about now.
 
2012-08-29 12:23:34 PM  

greggm59: No matter how it happened, I'm just glad that the evil bastard got what he deserved. It's good knowing that his last moments were spent looking at the muzzle of a SEAL's weapon.


Yeah. Hooray for death squads.
 
2012-08-29 12:26:31 PM  

mekki: A book that is coming out just in time during a major election to discredit Obama on one of his biggest achievements as a leader? No, this doesn't smell at all. I am sure the book is 100% unbiased fact.


Didn't GW start this whole thing? How is it Obama gets credit? Kinda like the hostages in Iran, Reagan takes credit for all of Carters ground work.

I thought going to Aardvarkistan was bad when GW was prez, but is ok now with Barry O?

Is orange purple now too?
 
2012-08-29 12:27:25 PM  
Shut the hell up. It was very brave of Obama to go into a terrorist compound and kill the leader. He's a goddamn war hero!
 
2012-08-29 12:28:26 PM  

greggm59: No matter how it happened, I'm just glad that the evil bastard got what he deserved. It's good knowing that his last moments were spent looking at the muzzle of a SEAL's weapon.


Good and evil don't really exist. Those are man made notions to justify emotional and or idiolized wants and needs.
 
2012-08-29 12:28:26 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: The SEAL doesn't seem realistic to me. It is not that leaders are pussies. it is that leaders expect to be treated like leaders or statesmen. You see, if Bin Laden was white and leading white people, the leaders of the enemy would be treated as respected politicians (like Slobodan Milosevic, or other white politicians have been treated by the USA in the past, when they promote genocide and terrorism).

I bet that what the SEAL member saw was the leadership of the other side, being surprised at the extent of racism. Bin Laden expected to be captured and treated like a military or political leader. Instead he was treated like non-whites throughout the history of European imperialism. Just another bunch of Hottentots and Aboriginees to be pacified.

I actually am very glad that the SEAL team killed Bin Laden. What I am annoyed with is the traditional double standard of the American State Department, that allows stuff like the Serbian genocide to occur because they coddle maniacs who have white enough skin, while they treat non-white terrorists appropriately. Doesn't the SEAL in this article have any self-awareness at all?


Good points all around, to answer your question- who knows? Not part of a SEAL's job, questioning why.

And bullies are always pussies.
They try to build up a hierarchy of syncophants to do their dirty work.
Some bullies just have more money/more power than others.
 
2012-08-29 12:29:38 PM  

spacelord321: They didn't always get the job done. I would bet that many of times they died. Whole team.


[Citation needed] - oh, wait, I can do that for you:

Vietnam- SEAL involvement from 1963 to 1973 (cite). Total casualties, 46 (cite)

Afghanistan- 2001 to 2012. Total casualties, 50 (cite - set service to U.S. Navy - oddly, there are two entries for the Navy, so some addition is required)

Pretty equivalent. Granted, it isn't an apples to apples comparison, warfare has evolved, and so has their mission and how we employ them. But to say they died more frequently in the past isn't really true

/Sorry that took so long
//Connection speed here sucks
 
2012-08-29 12:31:32 PM  

calm like a bomb: BillCo: It's good to know that the White House didn't let the facts get in the way of a good story. 

Obamarambo?

Oh, just farking go away. Nobody respects anything you have to say. Personally I think you're a sock puppet for a modmin, since you always post once at the beginning of a thread and then pussy out.


Like a boss.
 
2012-08-29 12:33:00 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del:
yeah, that pisses me off too. I also hate it when people use "soldier" when talking about a member of the Marine Core


A marine is a soldier who serves in the navy. There is nothing to say that everyone in a navy is a sailor. Ours has a lot of pilots as well.
 
2012-08-29 12:35:44 PM  

Lumpmoose: So this is the article:

Bin Laden apparently was hit in the head when he looked out of his bedroom door into the top-floor hallway of his compound as SEALs rushed up a narrow stairwell in his direction.
...
He said: 'We were less than five steps from getting to the top when I heard suppressed shots. BOP. BOP. I couldn't tell from my position if the rounds hit the target or not. The man disappeared into the dark room.'
...
Owen writes that as bin Laden lay dying, he and another commando 'trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds. The bullets tore into him, slamming his body into the floor until he was motionless.'

And this is Wikipedia, which would presumably be a pretty standard summary of the "reports" that subby is referring to:

Bin Laden peered over the third floor ledge at the Americans advancing up the stairs, as a SEAL shot him once in the head. Bin Laden ducked back into his bedroom and the SEALs followed, only to find him crumpled on the floor in a pool of blood with a hole visible on the right side of his head and two women wailing over his body. One of them, Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah, screamed at the SEALs in Arabic and motioned as if she were about to charge. One of the SEALs shot her in the leg, then grabbed both women and shoved them aside. The other SEALS shot bin Laden's still twitching body several times until he lay motionless.

Where's the discrepancy?


What you just quoted comes directly from the book in question, not the original report.
 
2012-08-29 12:35:52 PM  

trappedspirit: clevershark: As for Bin Laden, well, why would he even bother fighting back? He knew the guys in black were there to kill him, period. If the US "buried him at sea" just to get rid of the body, you can bet your ass that there were NO plans for OBL to be alive at the end of the operation. This was an assassination from the start.

Yeah, but you say that like it's wrong or something


What happens when the assassins accuse the assassins?
 
2012-08-29 12:35:59 PM  

torusXL: Boudica's War Tampon: hugram: greggm59: No matter how it happened, I'm just glad that the evil bastard got what he deserved. It's good knowing that his last moments were spent looking at the muzzle of a SEAL's weapon.

QFT...

What I still find puzzling is why certain people from the Right don't seem too happy that OBL is in fact dead.

That attitude comes directly from their leaders:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Who knows the extent to why public comments were said like this. Possibly it was to keep it quiet that in fact Osama was in the process of being hunted down. If you blab that you are in fact hunting for someone and they hear about it, they'll be more cautious and then it'll be harder to catch them.


Actually, that was my opinion all along. I was willing to give the Bushies the benefit of the doubt about being smart enough to say you weren't hunting for him anymore. I'm not sure when OBL moved into his compound in Pakistan but I like to think he got sloppy because he felt he wasn't being hunted by the Bush team. Then when Obama came in, he was kind of stuck.
 
2012-08-29 12:36:24 PM  

farkityfarker: Am I the only one who's getting sick and tired of hearing about the Navy SEALs?


No you are not. I presume the worship of them as superhuman beings comes from people whose Tom Clancy collections are unreadable because dried semen has stuck the pages together.
 
2012-08-29 12:39:01 PM  

spacelord321: That said, I have spent time with many of martial artists who I'm certain would give any SEAL an even fight. I've also met many a straight up badass criminals that never back down, and never have to. Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight. The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill, and the absence of the most heavily funded backup support known to man.


FTA: The higher up the food chain the targeted individual was, the bigger a pussy he was

Or, the FARK corollary:
i243.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-29 12:41:04 PM  
Propaganda works, when you repeat it enough.
 
2012-08-29 12:41:38 PM  

spacelord321: Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight.


I'm a redneck hunter, and a decent shot, and my job before this one was testing weapons and things we put on weapons for SF, so I like to think I am decent with a rifle at least. Every time I have gone head to head with an SF guy, though, they have beaten me. (The last time it was with an Army SFC, and he only beat me by one shot. So close, dammit)

The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill

Eh, their relationship with authority is complicated - if their respect is earned, they will follow authority to hell and back. If it isn't, they could give a shiat about someone who thinks they are in charge. I'll agree with their ability to accept their requirement to take life. It just doesn't seem to bother them. I will still say that there is more to it than just those traits, though.
 
2012-08-29 12:42:21 PM  

special20: Did Obama take credit - explicitly take credit - for the action taken against Bin Laden?


Um... yes.
 
2012-08-29 12:44:01 PM  
 
2012-08-29 12:44:17 PM  

spacelord321: Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: You need to get out more, and meet more of humanity. But, as you said, we will agree to disagree.

I've met plenty, thanks. I've also spent the last 6 years or so doing support work for various SF groups, so I've met a lot of them. I am a pretty proud person, but they are definitely a breed apart.

Ok. No offense intended. Got a little carried away with the common vernacular.

That said, I have spent time with many of martial artists who I'm certain would give any SEAL an even fight. I've also met many a straight up badass criminals that never back down, and never have to. Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight. The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill, and the absence of the most heavily funded backup support known to man.


Yep, SEALS are only as good as the helicopter gunships or artillery supporting them, LOL. It's funny how a Fark libtard will never, ever, EVER show any respect for ANYONE in the military. If it's one thing that cowards despise, it's anyone with balls.
 
2012-08-29 12:45:46 PM  

Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: They didn't always get the job done. I would bet that many of times they died. Whole team.

[Citation needed] - oh, wait, I can do that for you:

Vietnam- SEAL involvement from 1963 to 1973 (cite). Total casualties, 46 (cite)

Afghanistan- 2001 to 2012. Total casualties, 50 (cite - set service to U.S. Navy - oddly, there are two entries for the Navy, so some addition is required)

Pretty equivalent. Granted, it isn't an apples to apples comparison, warfare has evolved, and so has their mission and how we employ them. But to say they died more frequently in the past isn't really true

/Sorry that took so long
//Connection speed here sucks


Ok. Good points all around. But now we are talkinG casualties inflicted and using that as a basis of individual toughness. I will counter that with the casualty infliction rate of afghani army/police turncoats against NATO troops.

I am discussing the individual toughness of said "sailors", not their toughness as a group, which is dependent on the teams behind/over/under the lines.
 
2012-08-29 12:47:22 PM  
I was way happier with our spec operators when they weren't so goddamned mouthy. These bastards should be made to sign lifetime NDA's.
 
2012-08-29 12:51:08 PM  

900RR: spacelord321: Uisce Beatha: spacelord321: You need to get out more, and meet more of humanity. But, as you said, we will agree to disagree.

I've met plenty, thanks. I've also spent the last 6 years or so doing support work for various SF groups, so I've met a lot of them. I am a pretty proud person, but they are definitely a breed apart.

Ok. No offense intended. Got a little carried away with the common vernacular.

That said, I have spent time with many of martial artists who I'm certain would give any SEAL an even fight. I've also met many a straight up badass criminals that never back down, and never have to. Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight. The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill, and the absence of the most heavily funded backup support known to man.

Yep, SEALS are only as good as the helicopter gunships or artillery supporting them, LOL. It's funny how a Fark libtard will never, ever, EVER show any respect for ANYONE in the military. If it's one thing that cowards despise, it's anyone with balls.


well, yeah, because no SEAL ever accomplished a mission without a room full of intel geeks and a gigantic mainframe computer system...
 
2012-08-29 12:54:43 PM  

spacelord321: I will counter that with the casualty infliction rate of afghani army/police turncoats against NATO troops.

I am discussing the individual toughness of said "sailors", not their toughness as a group, which is dependent on the teams behind/over/under the lines.


You are going to have to expand on that, because I don't understand what you are trying to say. I don't know how you would compare their "toughness" to others without a metric of some sort. Oh, and most blue-on-green (afghan army or police vs NATO troops) have not been directed at SEALs. A few against army SF, most against regular troops or NATO allies (which is a different issue, and for reasons not pertinent to this thread)

And, I think we've already gone over their toughness, or at least effectiveness with and without us REMFs - they get the job done with or without us, their effectiveness is helped by their support, but not dependent on it.
 
2012-08-29 12:55:27 PM  

spacelord321: That said, I have spent time with many of martial artists who I'm certain would give any SEAL an even fight. I've also met many a straight up badass criminals that never back down, and never have to. Also, I've met many of "redneck" (my words) hunters that could match them in a firefight. The only difference seems to be the disdain for authoritarianism or the lack of obligation to kill, and the absence of the most heavily funded backup support known to man.


assets.diylol.com

/I bet you wear one.
 
2012-08-29 12:57:55 PM  

Wittenberg Dropout: I was way happier with our spec operators when they weren't so goddamned mouthy. These bastards should be made to sign lifetime NDA's.


Anyone with a TS clearance signs an NDA when getting out. Whether it is enforced is another matter.

/It might just be guys with SCI
//One or the other - either way, it would apply to SOCOM guys
///Those things can be pages and pages long, I don't remember hardly anything that was in mine
 
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