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(The Age (Melbourne))   Humans who invest in the stock markets are losing out big-time to robots. No, this isn't a story about Mitt Romney   (theage.com.au) divider line 28
    More: Interesting, Australian Stock Exchange, news agencies, robots, Knight Capital  
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2679 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Aug 2012 at 9:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-28 08:17:33 PM
Short AAPL in Q1 2013 and make money off the robots.
 
2012-08-28 08:41:30 PM
How to make money in the market:

1. Buy blue chip growth stocks on a regular basis. If the market dives, buy double.
2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.
3. Profit.
 
2012-08-28 09:27:59 PM
Can we shut this worthless pile of scam down already? A sophisticated system for doing nothing but taking money out of the hands of plebs and transferring it to the wealthy. Financial markets are completely unnecessary in a modern society. Arguably they were always unnecessary.
 
2012-08-28 09:28:47 PM
no shiat.

The industry calls "customers" that use trading gimmicks like eTrade "Dumb Money". They offer the gateway, charge fee's on top, and make a killing on their bad decisions and tears. It's fleecing the gamblers, and not even paying for their cheap drinks.

If you're not investing through an institutional investor, or have enough money and clout for a personal investment manager; you're playing a losing game and just making someone else rich.
 
2012-08-28 09:29:16 PM

Marcus Aurelius: How to make money in the market:

1. Buy blue chip growth stocks on a regular basis. If the market dives, buy double.
2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.
3. Profit.


Like Warren Buffet does...except they don't have to be blue chip.
Only underrated....but an established brand that will continue to be purchased.
 
2012-08-28 09:29:19 PM

Marcus Aurelius: How to make money in the market:

2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.


Ahh yes, the ostrich approach. That totally worked wonders in 2008. "But I thought my 401k was safe!"

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-28 09:30:58 PM
A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.
 
2012-08-28 09:33:33 PM
 
2012-08-28 09:35:30 PM
SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

Better and easier; apply a $0.001 tax per share on positions not held for more than 12 hours.
 
2012-08-28 09:37:25 PM
TyrantII: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

Better and easier; apply a $0.001 tax per share on positions not held for more than 12 hours.


Also was going to say, Wallstreet and London just got done putting in a multi-billion dollar fiber pipe between NYC and London to shave off 10ms in trading, so don't count on it happening anytime soon. There's trillions to be made over quadrillion's of trades in the next decade.
 
2012-08-28 09:38:12 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.


What if they open a bunch of accounts?

I think a transaction tax would be the key. Not too large, shield retirement accounts and other conservative style investments. Maybe no tax on stocks owned for more than a year.
 
2012-08-28 09:55:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: How to make money in the market:

1. Buy blue chip growth stocks on a regular basis. If the market dives, buy double.
2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.
3. Profit.


That is at the heart of my strategy. I buy blue chips that pay dividends when the market dips. I have also had success with long term trades. Right now, I am expecting a correction. The recent runup in the Dow without the corresponding uptick in the economy combined with the likelihood of no QE III suggests to me the market will regress over the next 2 months.
 
2012-08-28 09:56:46 PM

ceebeecates4: Marcus Aurelius: How to make money in the market:

2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.

Ahh yes, the ostrich approach. That totally worked wonders in 2008. "But I thought my 401k was safe!"

[i47.tinypic.com image 512x384]


thanks a lot Obama
vote Romney and that won't happen again
 
2012-08-28 10:36:13 PM
I read an article on the same subject last week. It was better written and more engaging, imho

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/ff_wallstreet_trading/
 
2012-08-28 10:49:22 PM
TAX EVERY TRANSACTION.
 
2012-08-28 10:51:07 PM
www.movie-roulette.com

/approves
 
2012-08-28 10:55:16 PM

TyrantII: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

Better and easier; apply a $0.001 tax per share on positions not held for more than 12 hours.


What about a requirement to take physical possession of a commodity before it can be sold again?
 
2012-08-28 11:01:32 PM
Smeggy Smurf: TyrantII: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

Better and easier; apply a $0.001 tax per share on positions not held for more than 12 hours.

What about a requirement to take physical possession of a commodity before it can be sold again?


They require it upon contract settlement, so whoever gets stuck with it, literally gets stuck with it. Not sure how it be possible per trade though. I'm not even sure if HFT is allowed much in the commodities markets, never been involved with them. Not my area...
 
2012-08-28 11:12:29 PM

Smeggy Smurf: TyrantII: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

Better and easier; apply a $0.001 tax per share on positions not held for more than 12 hours.

What about a requirement to take physical possession of a commodity before it can be sold again?


not really practical to move and store them all personally. If you wanted to purchase one corn future where would you put 5000 bushels of corn? But it does remind me of this...

My old econ teacher told us this story about his buddy who decided to get into futures. He had bought a few corn futures on a whim and then promptly forgot about them. Never thought about it again until the day he got a phone call from the local railroad that his load of corn was here and needed to be picked up...
 
2012-08-28 11:44:55 PM
FTFA:
''If you're not watching the market all day, you can put in an order for 10,000 shares and get just two, which we would never buy if that's what was on offer,'' Abernethy says.

Too bad they haven't discovered the fill-or-kill order on that side of the planet.
 
2012-08-28 11:49:52 PM

TyrantII: If you're not investing through an institutional investor, or have enough money and clout for a personal investment manager; you're playing a losing game and just making someone else rich.


Am I?

chart.finance.yahoo.com
 
2012-08-28 11:52:18 PM

Pumpernickel bread: The recent runup in the Dow without the corresponding uptick in the economy combined with the likelihood of no QE III suggests to me the market will regress over the next 2 months.


...um, haven't we known for quite a while that there were no females named Elizabeth in line for the throne any time soon?
 
2012-08-29 12:07:58 AM
Domo arigato
 
2012-08-29 01:30:35 AM
How about just trading stocks that aren't household names?

For fark's sake, houshold names like AAPL trade a bazillion shares a day, most of which is probably robot-vs-robot. And do you really think you know more about AAPL than the dozens of analysts who are already being paid millions of dollars a year to cover it? You're better off throwing a dart at a copy of the Wall Street Journal and going through the quotes section (do they even print quotes in newspapers these days?) and picking every name within a 1" radius of the place your dart hit, on every side of every page through which the dart pierced.

Of those, for every name that trades more than 100K and less than 10M shares per day, bring up a chart. Because those are the sorts of stocks where though your trade might get filled by a couple of HFT robots doing their duty as providers of liquidity, you can be reasonably confident that the stock isn't active enough to be worth being moved by other kind of algorithmic trader. (On moral grounds, I miss the days when I'd give my counterparty $12.50, knowing that some other counterparty would give me $12.50 back, but if the price of a world in which commisions can be less than $10, my counterparty and I are both willing to sacrifice our principles and give a liquidity-providing bot $1.00 of principal before we give each other $5.25.)

There's still room for the individual investor in this market; you just to dance between the towers. Sure, there's no way that you're ever gonna get far, but if "getting far" means being responsible for managing billions of dollars, that still leaves plenty of room underneath the radar, trading names that are just too small to make a fuss about.
 
2012-08-29 07:09:31 AM

MayoSlather: Arguably they were always unnecessary.


There was once a time when a company based in Amsterdam issued the first stocks. you gave them money and they used it to fund a trip to Asia to get spices. If they came back you could exchange your stock for a cut of the profit based on the percentage of the total cost of the trip you invested. If they didn't come back you were out of money. That was a very useful way of financing individual trips with stocks.

Nowadays you buy a stock, someone else (doesn't) want(s) that stock and therefore the stock changes in value regardless of what the company does. This is a bullshiat way of setting stock prices.
 
2012-08-29 07:45:20 AM

falcon176: ceebeecates4: Marcus Aurelius: How to make money in the market:

2. Put them away for at least five to ten years and don't give them a second thought.

Ahh yes, the ostrich approach. That totally worked wonders in 2008. "But I thought my 401k was safe!"

[i47.tinypic.com image 512x384]

thanks a lot Obama
vote Romney and that won't happen again


Just in case you AREN'T joking, I'll point out that you'd be blaming a man who wasn't even in office when things went to hell for problems that started with Clinton. You know, if you aren't joking.
 
2012-08-29 08:40:38 AM
In the early days of the New York Stock Exchange, brokers' fees were 1% of the stock purchase amount. So to buy $10,000 in a company's stock, you had to pay $100. That means you started out 1% down already and had to wait for at least that much gain before selling. A higher cost, yes, but it forced you to hold on to a stock longer.
 
2012-08-30 03:33:42 PM

Ed Willy: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: A common excuse is that high frequency trading would be too hard to stop. Bunch of bullsh*t...just set caps on trades from an account per time unit.

What if they open a bunch of accounts?

I think a transaction tax would be the key. Not too large, shield retirement accounts and other conservative style investments. Maybe no tax on stocks owned for more than a year.


Two things:

1) All investments held for more than a year are capital gains. Under that, it's income.
2) A 1 cent per trade tax. Avoid computers moving shares thousands of times to make just a buck.

The current market is like playing poker with 10 opponents and 9 of them are working for the house. Better yet, they don't know the cards from the dealer (that would be insider trading) but they can freely talk to each other about their cards (i.e. they can engineer stock runs).

The individual strategy of these "opponents" isn't for them to win, it's for you to lose, because as long as they just fleece you, they're ultimately ahead.
 
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