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(Jerusalem Post)   Israeli court rules Israel not at fault in 2003 killing by Israeli military of non-Israeli activist Rachel Corrie   (jpost.com) divider line 88
    More: Followup, Rachel Corrie, Israelis, IDF, bulldozers, diplomacies, court ruling  
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2942 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2012 at 6:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-28 03:11:03 AM  
10 votes:
I don't know what surveillance tapes Israel has that they are supposedly keeping back, and I don't know if they had external observers in communication with the bulldozer operator,

But if this was in the US and it was a FARK headline of "Family of girl playing in construction site when heavily armored hard to see out of bulldozer strikes her loses lawsuit" most of us would be calling the girl a dumbass and telling the family something similar.

Most of us learned not to play in construction sites around bulldozers or stand in the blind spots of cars or trucks.

Just because you're a protester doesn't magically impart immunity to you.
2012-08-28 07:19:18 AM  
7 votes:
For all the goofy farksticks out there she was standing on a dirt embankment in front of the bulldozer, the bulldozer moved forward, causing the embankment to collapse. She fell and her foot became stuck in the dirt. Over her screams and the protestations of the bystanders the bulldozer ran her over, gravely wounding her. Then the operator put it in reverse and backed over her, killing her.

You cannot justify this conduct. Do not try. She was trying to make a stand for what she believed in, agree or disagree she should have been arrested and detained. Not murdered. End of story, Israeli apologists need to get a grip.
2012-08-28 07:42:14 AM  
5 votes:
See, the death of innocents is always a tragedy. However:

When you go out and associate yourself with a group like the ISM, you are not an innocent.
When you go out in order to protest the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and try to physically prevent acts necessary for the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and put yourself in physical danger after being told repeatedly for hours to move out of the way while protecting said tunnels, you are not an innocent.

Rachel Corrie was not innocent. This is not Rachel Corrie in Gaza:
www.kabobfest.com

This is Rachel Corrie in Gaza.
www.thejc.com

There she was, burning an American flag with stars of david on it. She was someone who believed that Jews controlled America, someone who hated America, and someone who supported terrorists who oppress human rights of those around them (as clearly seen by the Hamas rule in Gaza) and are responsible for the death of hundreds of Israeli civilians.

She was actively engaged in helping terrorists smuggle weapons to kill Jews.

She supported a group who has an avowed goal of genocide against Jews, enshrined in its charter.

She was not an innocent.


The ISM are a group who openly declare that they support 'violent struggle' and consider terrorist acts by groups such as Hamas as legitimate. Their members have often been caught collaborating with Hamas, smuggling messages by using their status as international protesters to get them across, they have shielded terrorists in their offices to prevent arrests by the IDF, they have formed human shields around tunnels that are used to smuggle weapons to kill innocents, and in certain cases, they have even shielded and drove around terrorists who then blew themselves up, such as the case of Mike's Place suicide bombing. Oh, and that was not too long before they were laying wraiths with these two guys in Gaza on the spot where Rachel Corrie died.

Here are a few ISM members chilling with their friends:
i139.photobucket.com

There are many valid groups that are there to genuinely try and advance the rights of the Arab residents of Gaza or Judea and Samaria. This is not an innocent group.


The IDF was not in the area to do anything nefarious, they were there in order to destroy tunnels that were used to smuggle weapons and other materials used to kill civilians. She was trying to prevent the IDF from doing that.

This is not what innocents do.

However, none of that would justify murdering her. And this is not what happened.

What happened, and was caught on camera, is simply this:

an IDF officer testified that Corrie and other activists had spent "hours" trying to block the bulldozers under his command. On that day, they were only clearing "vegetation and rubble", and no houses were slated for demolition. He went on to say that it was "a war zone where Palestinian militants used abandoned homes as firing positions" and exploited foreign activists for cover. He shouted over a megaphone for the activists to leave, tried to use tear gas to disperse them and moved his troops several times. "To my regret, after the eighth time, (Corrie) hid behind an earth embankment. The D9 operator didn't see her. She thought he saw her," he said. An operational log submitted to the court showed that the officer reported a grenade thrown at his troops about 40 minutes before Corrie's death.[29]

It is sad that she died, but she put herself in danger. She hid herself from the view of the D9, which incidentally doesn't have a great view of its surrounding
www.israeli-weapons.com

This is because they have to be heavily armored in order to deflects attacks by snipers.

She hid in a ditch where she couldn't be seen by the driver, and she was not killed by being ran over, but rather a slab of concrete hit her. She died of subsequent injuries. A death that could have been avoided, had she been treated immediately, rather than left to lie around by her ISM friends and her handlers. She was more useful as a martyr, after all.

Unedited footage (because the ISM loves to edit it and try to make it look intentional) is available, as well as the transmissions from the cockpit. It is very clear that this was not intentional, that he did not see her and that's how she died.
www.think-israel.org

She was behind that mound, and she died because she played chicken for hours with a bulldozer in a military zone. Something that ISM members are trained to do, and routinely engage in.

She was not innocent, and she died through her own decisions.
2012-08-28 06:38:16 AM  
4 votes:
Wait, wait.

She knelt infront of a Caterpiller D10 Armored Bulldozer blade? A piece of equipment that is as tall as a tractor-trailer, and blocks the vision of the operator?

What did she expect to happen? He would magically use his X-ray Vision to see her, and stop?

Sounds like a Darwin Award candidate. Had this happened in the US, you people would be mocking her relentlessly. But, since this is Israel, no examination of the matter is to be had. Clearly, they had just finished plotting their takeover for the rest of the world, and needed a blood sacrifice to appease Moses.
2012-08-28 03:43:30 AM  
4 votes:
i.imgur.com
2012-08-28 03:39:31 AM  
4 votes:

RoyBatty: I don't know what surveillance tapes Israel has that they are supposedly keeping back, and I don't know if they had external observers in communication with the bulldozer operator,

But if this was in the US and it was a FARK headline of "Family of girl playing in construction site when heavily armored hard to see out of bulldozer strikes her loses lawsuit" most of us would be calling the girl a dumbass and telling the family something similar.

Most of us learned not to play in construction sites around bulldozers or stand in the blind spots of cars or trucks.

Just because you're a protester doesn't magically impart immunity to you.


Except she wasnt at a "construction site", she was at the home of a Palestinian family where she was a guest. That bulldozer wasnt there to build something it was there to destroy that families home.

FTA: "Judge Gershon invokes "combatant activities" exception, says US activist who was killed by IDF bulldozer in Gaza could have avoided dangerous situation."

By this reasoning Israel could also avoid Katusha rockets if they'd just move Sderot
2012-08-28 04:26:10 PM  
3 votes:

depmode98: sucks that she thought protecting the house of a terrorist was more important than living



Are you saying the house was owned by an Israeli Zionist?

www.thepeoplesvoice.org

King David Hotel Bombing - Single deadliest act of terrorism ever committed in Israel / Palestine.

Details

Date: July 22, 1946
Number Killed: 91
Number Injured: 46
Terrorist Organization: Irgun (Zionist)
Mastermind: Menachem Begin (with Yitzhak Shamir)


Culprits apprehended? Yes
Culprits tried? No (celebrated)

Sentences imposed:

Begin: Elected Prime Minister of Israel
Shamir: Elected Prime Minister of Israel (twice)


Yep, ol Israel sure hates those terrorists
2012-08-28 08:54:18 AM  
3 votes:

fatalvenom: You post all this like she did something wrong.


She obviously is anti-semitic because she's pro palestinian, therefore she did something wrong.

With tats, there's no middle ground -- if you don't agree with him, you're antisemitic.

Just because you don't want the wanton destruction between two clashing cultures and you support the underdog, does not mean you hate the other one...
2012-08-28 08:48:04 AM  
3 votes:

Tatsuma: mrexcess: Funny, now you have concern for the facts and for the use of ad hominem. Just a minute ago, you were labeling a dead peace activist an America hating terrorist supporter.

Your scales are unbalanced, sir.

She was burning an American flag with stars of david, declared America was ZOG and supported Hamas.

ISM aren't peace activists, they support violent actions by Hamas. They say so openly


As opposed to peacefully bulldozing people homes?
2012-08-28 07:28:38 AM  
3 votes:
encrypted-tbn3.google.com


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
2012-08-28 07:24:30 AM  
3 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: I've worked around heavy equipment all my professional life. Their line of site can be very poor at times, much less an "armored" version like shown in the picture.

It's generally not a good idea to get in front of them period, much less at a distance under 50'.


For reference here is a picture I took during reserve training a couple of years ago of the type of armored bulldozer in question.

I'm in the IDF Combat Engineers Corps, and the bulldozer drivers are one of our units. We usually have a few when we do big maneuvers. Way back when in Basic or Advanced training we got to operate one. They are BIG Motherfarkers, and yes, sight lines suck.
lh4.googleusercontent.com
2012-08-28 04:41:11 AM  
3 votes:
The whole thing over there is just tragedy piled on tragedy.
2012-08-28 04:33:09 AM  
3 votes:

RoyBatty: And if you're protesting the inhumane actions of a government that you detest by placing your body on the line, well, .... well there's a logic flaw there.


Yeah, I cant argue that. She took that risk. And in a way I admire her passion. I dont have it. I've never put my life on the line for anything, let alone a belief.

I rate her action on par with the Tiananmen square standoff -well, except the Chinese are not Israelis and she was not as successful.
2012-08-28 04:02:19 AM  
3 votes:

RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 441x232]


What if "HERE" is your yard where your family lived for 5 generations?
2012-08-28 06:17:27 PM  
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Uncle Tractor: So it doesn't matter to you waht Israel ever does it will always be a plot to get back Jewish land and any deal they ever makeis just a ruse.

There is one thing Israel can do: Officially state that Gaza and the WB are part of Israel and grant the people who live there (arab and otherwise) full rights as israeli citizens.

There are many things they could do. They could equally declare the land Israel and the people there invading combatants.



Ever notice the similarities between Gnawzi Yermany and Xionist Xrael?

The ideology, the xenophobic racism, the vicious expansionism?

Weird, huh?
2012-08-28 05:03:14 PM  
2 votes:
Step away for a day and look at all the bullshiat being slung around. "Industrial accident"? Pshaw. That's when Larry accidentally cuts his thumb off making a bird house or a planter. When there's an operator with a bulldozer trying to destroy someone's home and someone get's killed because the operator's in too much of a rush to destroy shiat that he can't take the time to make sure the person standing in front of him isn't going to end up underneath his several ton piece of machinery, that's at least criminally negligent homicide.

For the rest of the idiots that decried her politics, great. I'm not 100% on the Palestinian bandwagon either (or even 50% for that matter), but when Tats expresses his opinions we don't run him over. She took a stand, if Israel wanted her out of the way they could have forcibly removed her...instead they farking killed her.

It's still indefensible.
2012-08-28 02:42:19 PM  
2 votes:
This stupid case wasted a LOT of valuable time for the poor Israeli courts.

They knew damn well that they were going to tell the plaintiffs tu STFU and GTFO from the beginning - why the show trial?

Fortunately this type of thing is less likely to happen in the future, as the Israelis have take steps to ensure that Untermenschen will no longer be clogging up their courts.


New regulation may bar migrants, Palestinians from filing lawsuits in Israeli courts
Regulations require that anyone filing a suit in an Israeli court provide an Israeli ID number or foreign passport number.

By Tomer Zarchin 01:04 06.08.12

Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman has signed on regulations that require plaintiffs to cite their Israeli ID numbers or foreign passport numbers on the documents they file. Although the ministry said the cases of individuals such as migrant workers, Palestinian residents of the territories and stateless individuals who have no passport will be referred to a registrar or judge, civil rights activists say the new...


[END QUOTE]


Want to read more? Subscribe, you filthy dog.


/But we're not racist
//Or anything like that
///Only democracy in the Middle East 

////We are
2012-08-28 09:38:29 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: SkunkWerks: Both of which are protected forms of free speech and not terrorism of any kind. Not on their own.

... that's not what makes her a supporter of terrorism.

Being an ISM member and preventing the IDF from destroying tunnels used to smuggle weapons does.

First one only means she hates America and Jews (only anti-semites believe the ZOG drivel)


How many wheels are on your goalposts anyways?
2012-08-28 09:10:51 AM  
2 votes:
Tatsuma
She was burning an American flag with stars of david

Burning even a fully American flag would not inherently make one a hater of America. An American burning an American flag with Stars of David is much more reasonably interpreted as strong repudiation of America's policies towards Israel.

declared America was ZOG

I think some citations and context would be relevant here.

and supported Hamas.

And here, as well.

ISM aren't peace activists, they support violent actions by Hamas.

And here.

CrispFlows
To be fair, he did provide proof.

Disagree. What he's done is provide, essentially, "opposition research". The picture it presents isn't accurate with respect to her beliefs and was never intended to be. Reading Rachel's actual writings makes this pretty clear... she wasn't someone who hated America, although she hated the way our government sometimes works, some of our policies, and some of the views of her countrymen (as we all mostly do). She wasn't some bloodthirsty supporter of terrorism - in fact she was an extremely gentle person who very much did NOT support people walking into malls or onto school buses and slaughtering innocents, or people tearing down the homes of innocent families.

liam76
ISM, which Corrie was a member of, supports "armed struggle" as a right of Palestenians.

Armed struggle is a right of any oppressed minority. That isn't to say it's a good idea, or that violence generally is beneficial, or that the specific types of violence employed by Palestinian groups in the past have been morally justified, but it's just ridiculous to suggest that a violently oppressed people don't have the right to resist their oppressors with the same level of force being used to oppress them. I come from a country that only exists because of a violent revolution against an occupying foreign power, how could I deny that? Come to that, how could Israel supporters deny that? Israel is well known for funding armed opposition movements in nations like Iran, despite their employment of tactics not very different from those of Hamas.
2012-08-28 09:07:15 AM  
2 votes:

liam76: ISM, which Corrie was a member of, supports "armed struggle" as a right of Palestenians.


It is their right, what's the problem?
2012-08-28 08:53:06 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: Well listen to her speak or look at her burning American flags


Both of which are protected forms of free speech and not terrorism of any kind. Not on their own.
2012-08-28 08:50:11 AM  
2 votes:
I've operated similar equipment in the Army (Essayons!). In that situation it would be clear to me that someone is going to get hurt or killed. They're just beggiing for it. It should have been abundantly clear to Israeli commanders that not standing down operations would most likely lead to this outcome. Likewise, it should have been abundantly clear to the leaders of the protest action that to not stand down THEIR operation would lead to this outcome. BOTH sides should have known death or dismemberment was a likely outcome. NEITHER side stood down operations.

FWIW as someone who has wrangled these big beasts, the fact that she climbed up on the rubble in front of the blade.... well that was just suicidal. Those machines jerk, yank, shift with the ground under them. There's a hundred ways somebody can get killed around heavy earth movers. Either she was too naive to understand this, or, she was just plain nuts.
2012-08-28 08:46:52 AM  
2 votes:

fusillade762: Placing yourself in front of heavy machinery never ends well.


That man fought his own government for equality and freedom. Rachel was a U.S. hating fearmonger. I'm willing to own up to our right wing whackjobs like Todd Akin and his derp; but you guys have to admit to some of yours on the left. And Rachel Corrie was about as extremist left as you can get.
2012-08-28 08:23:08 AM  
2 votes:

mrexcess: Whenever Tatsuma starts in on one of his 3 page long posts, you know you're being fed some bullshiat.


He has these things ready for cut and paste. Gots to get paid.
2012-08-28 08:17:33 AM  
2 votes:
Whenever Tatsuma starts in on one of his 3 page long posts, you know you're being fed some bullshiat.
2012-08-28 08:07:54 AM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: SkunkWerks: The only source for either of these versions is Fark Commenters...

I have provided a picture, and pointed out you could see the video on youtube and other places.


You provided what amounts to a Daily Mail article- which is to say, slanted in it's narrative, mostly comprised of pictures to wow (and possibly confuse) readers whose last great achievement in literature was a pop-up book. Incidentally it's a tried-and-true approach. National Geographic pretty much pioneered it. You also have a pretty clear bias, if I may observe.

As for videos, well, you'll excuse me if I judiciously avoid questions from co-workers about just what the hell it is I am watching. Perhaps later. But on the subject of video- I do note that this article points to video of the occurrence that- though it appeared in TV documentaries of the incident- it's strangely disappeared since and the IDF denies it's existence.

For now, I've been skimming the Wikipedia article, which indicates numerous conflicting eyewitness accounts on just what the hell happened there. You'll have to pardon me if I remain unmoved.
2012-08-28 07:26:26 AM  
2 votes:

jaybeezey: You do something deemed illegal in your country and tell me just how long that property remains private.


What did those palestinians do that was illegal? Own land in the zionist living space?
2012-08-28 07:22:21 AM  
2 votes:
It's true, it was Corries fault that Israel bulldozes people's homes and farms as part of their calculated land grab.
2012-08-28 07:20:17 AM  
2 votes:
The people who deliberately murdered Rachel Corrie are now lying about it?

Shocked, I'm shocked.
2012-08-28 06:38:36 AM  
2 votes:

SkunkWerks: RoyBatty: well there's a logic flaw there.

[photos1.blogger.com image 576x432]


She really should have gone to the pub for a few pints of bitter
2012-08-28 06:22:45 AM  
2 votes:

RoyBatty: well there's a logic flaw there.


photos1.blogger.com
2012-08-28 06:19:15 AM  
2 votes:
Placing yourself in front of heavy machinery never ends well.

graphics8.nytimes.com
2012-08-28 05:11:25 AM  
2 votes:

Frederick: I rate her action on par with the Tiananmen square standoff


That's where I disagree. Those men and women were Chinese citizens in China. Rachel was just, well...a butinski. I kind of blame her parents. There's video of her at ten years old making some kind of speech against world hunger. She kept repeating how she "cared". Later on she got interested in the Palestinian thing. She also use to appear in front of her food co-op handing out pro Palestinian flyers.From her wiki page:

After flying to Israel on January 22, 2003, Corrie underwent a two-day training course at ISM West Bank headquarters, before heading to Rafah to participate in ISM demonstrations.[6][8] During her training, Corrie studied tactics of direct action. Basic rules about avoiding harm were given, which a later article on the Corrie incident summarized as: "Wear fluorescent jackets. Don't run. Don't frighten the army. Try to communicate by megaphone. Make your presence known."[8] On January 27, 2003, Corrie and William Hewitt (also from Olympia), traveled to the Erez checkpoint and entered the Gaza Strip.[8]

So presto, decked out in her keffiyeh scarf she waltzes into a combat zone, i.e. the Gaza Strip, after two days of training. The locals thought her group was crazy and were a little suspicious of them. According to Wiki that made Rachel and the other protesters want to become more engaged and active in stopping the demolitions of housing. After all, she really cared so she had to prove that to the locals.

I have no doubt that some of the Palestinians welcomed her death as it brought in the press where otherwise nothing of the thousands of other deaths would do so. So Rachel was a blip on the radar, soon to be pretty much a nonevent in a decades old fight. It won't change the tide of events no matter how many websites, plays, or documentaries are made. I put her right up there with that John Walker Lindh dork. You want to go play where the spears are flying don't come crying to me when you get stuck.
2012-08-28 04:22:13 AM  
2 votes:

RoyBatty: Frederick: RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 441x232]

What if "HERE" is your yard where your family lived for 5 generations?

I disagree with many of the Israeli policies.

But my main point is, don't stand in front of bulldozers, especially heavily armored bulldozers.

And if you're protesting the inhumane actions of a government that you detest by placing your body on the line, well, .... well there's a logic flaw there.


According to Wikipedia she was actually kneeling in front of the bulldozer immediately before this happened. I'm not familiar with this other than what I just read in the article and on her Wikipedia page but just based on that I don't see how you can come to a solid conclusion as to fault without choosing sides - either Israel is evil and they killed her on purpose or Israel would never do that and it was just a horrible accident. 

Oh, and since this is Fark, it seems I should post this:

www.ericthered.net
2012-08-30 06:35:45 PM  
1 votes:

liam76: Amos Quito: The goal was a racist State for Xews - various locations were considered - Canada, Iraq, Libya, Australia... GALVESTON - which kind of shoots down your excuse that the Xios had valid claim to the land as it was the ancestral homeland of the Jews, doesn't it liam76?

Or was Galveston part of the "Promised Land"?

Keep lying, lad. It's fun to watch

I didn't say they had a valid claim due to ti being an "ancestral home". I point out the pockets of jews who always lived there as an example of peopel like tractor's double standard as to what makes land jewish or arab.

And the goal was a state where they wouldn;t be persecuted, but to you a land where jews aren't persecuted must be racist.



Zionist Israel is definitively racist.

And let's look at whether your alleged goal of Zionism has been achieved: Is Israel "persecuted"?

Are the Jews of Israel safe? Because it seems to me that they have been in a constant "existential fight" from day one, that they can't point to ONE neighbor in the region without saying "they're trying to kill us!".

Some success story.

What the Zionists HAVE succeeded in doing is rounding up nearly half of the world's Jewish population into an area the size of New Jersey - and surrounded by neighboring countries teeming with enemies, old and new.

www.gearfuse.com

So what do you say, liam76? Is Zionism / Israel really "good for the Jews"?
2012-08-30 06:29:02 PM  
1 votes:

liam76: I guess I missed the part of the Oslo accords where lobbing rockets was OK.


It's right next to the part where it says it's OK to build colonies all over the WB.

Also odd that you think forcing people to remove trees that, under the Oslo Accord, they didn't have permission to plant is proof that Israel wants to remove all Arabs from WB, Gaza and Israel. Despite Israeli arabs having voting rights, place on the supreme court, political parties, and offers of land swaps with Palestenians and pull-out from Gaza.

The Oslo accords are stone dead. Nobody cares about them anymore. Well, except when they're used as an excuse for israeli asshattery.

As for the rights of israeli-arabs... what do you think will happen to those rights when their numbers become large enough for their votes to become politically relevant? When the arab voters of Israel can stop the israeli wrongdoings?

What happens when that time comes?

Just for once in your life, try to give me an honest answer.

Also odd that you dismiss Palestenians celebrating people who kill Israel civlians and electing a group that has removing the jews as their goal being proof "one state" would lead to civil war.

is a double standard.


It's only natural to celebrate when your oppressors get hurt. Europeans did the same thing whenever germans got hurt during WWII. As for Hamas, they're just in Gaza. They'd be wiped out in a single-state election. So would the extremists on the jewish side. The moderates would be able to work together.

You're an extremist yourself, of course (or a particularly tenacious troll), so you might not be able to grok the paragraph above.
2012-08-29 11:34:38 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: There is one thing Israel can do: Officially state that Gaza and the WB are part of Israel and grant the people who live there (arab and otherwise) full rights as israeli citizens.


Odd how you think when Israel gives land back, make peace with Egypt, gives its arab citizens rights it is all an evil plot to get all the land, that can onlybe disproven by a single state. But when Arabs elect a group that has removing all the jews from Israel as its stated goal then they really don't mean it and they will ive in peace with jews if there is one state.

Amos Quito: Ever notice the similarities between Gnawzi Yermany and Xionist Xrael?

The ideology, the xenophobic racism, the vicious expansionism?


Under Nazi Germany German Jews were all removed from them country adn millions of them were killed and they took over numerous countreis in wars they started, and only "returned land" when they were defeated.

Under Israel Israli Arabs gained the right to vote and enjoy a higher HDI and legal freedoms than any of the surrounding states. They have also given land back to Nations they were involved in wars with and moved out of Gaza.

So, no.


Uncle Tractor: Private ownership does not make land "jewish" or "arab" or anything else.


I didn't say private ownership.

I am pointing out how you think jews living there for thousands of years doesn't make it Jewish, but arabs living there for a few hundred makes it Arab, but there is no double standard.

Uncle Tractor: No, the one-state solution is the only civilized outcome left


Only if you take a civil war as "civilized". But Jews Israelis will be killed so I am sure you are fine with it.
2012-08-28 04:52:03 PM  
1 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com
2012-08-28 02:58:23 PM  
1 votes:
She was a good dhimmi
2012-08-28 02:09:34 PM  
1 votes:

Happy Hours: either Israel is evil and they killed her on purpose or Israel would never do that and it was just a horrible accident. 


I see it as Pancakes and the guy in the bulldozer were basically playing "Chicken". Pancakes won.

/Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
//Darwin in Action.
2012-08-28 01:16:21 PM  
1 votes:
Corrie was a fool, this was an accident - but it's the same sort of accident as mistakenly shooting a teller while robbing a bank - the crime here was Israel bulldozing houses and stealing land. Period.
2012-08-28 12:54:34 PM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: RoyBatty:
But if this was in the US and it was a FARK headline of "Family of girl playing in construction site when heavily armored hard to see out of bulldozer strikes her loses lawsuit" most of us would be calling the girl a dumbass and telling the family something similar.

How is a grown woman standing in front of a person's HOME, wearing a bright orange vest and reflective tape, with a megaphone, in any way comparable to a child playing in a construction site?

You're rationalizing murder with a total bullsh*t analogy.

You're right, we would feel sympathy with the little girl, whereas Corrie was just acting stupidly after having been trained stupidly by a bunch of assholes longing for her death in order to make an international scene.


You're moving the goalposts. Who gives a f*ck about some out-of-context quotes by some organizational spokespeople? Bottom line: she was trying to prevent a human being's house from being unjustly leveled, in such a way that made it impossible NOT to see her, and she was murdered. But you want to hold everyone but the perps accountable. Nice.

Meanwhile, the Kent State Massacre was entirely the fault of the hippie organizers, right? Jackass.
2012-08-28 12:48:16 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: BronyMedic: Tatsuma, I'm not anti-Israel by any means, but they are by no means perfect either. Criticizing the Government of Israel for acting like the Honey Badger, and Not giving a fark, does not make one an anti-semite. When you accuse people who have demonstrated no behavior or statements antisemetic of being that because they criticize the course of your Government, you Are NOT Helping.

Please show me where I did that in this thread tyia


Tatsuma, you've done it in the past, if not here. One tactic I've seen you employ is to use the logic that anti-semites like to knock on Israel, thus anyone knocking Israel should question the company they share such opinions with, lest they be labeled an anti-Semite.
2012-08-28 12:44:12 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Happy Hours: My eyesight isn't that great, but those just look like regular stars to me.

I am fairly sure that those were stars of david, because she also made comments about america being ZOG and she was protesting the invasion of Iraq at the behest of Israel by the ZOG American government


You're fairly sure because of a bunch of stuff OTHER than what you can see with your own eyes? Par for the course, Tatsuma, par for the course. You have gone so far off the deep end that you are now willing to ignore what you see in favor of what you believe. Look at that photo. That doesn't even look like an American flag, but I'll pretend she's just a sh*tty craftsman. But no, those stars have 5 points, clearly. They are not Stars of David. There is no "pretty sure"...they aren't. Look at them. Use your goddamned eyes. I mean holy sh*t, really? REALLY?
2012-08-28 12:38:09 PM  
1 votes:

Happy Hours: Tatsuma: There she was, burning an American flag with stars of david on it

My eyesight isn't that great, but those just look like regular stars to me.

That's still a pretty farked up thing for an American to do with a bunch of Palestinians though.


Perhaps. Not remotely as farked up as the actions she was protesting against, though. In fact, the void of that range of acceptability between the two is so broad as to make Tatsuma's mentioning of it utterly laughable.

Tatsuma:
When you go out and associate yourself with a group like the ISM, you are not an innocent. Derpity derpity derp.


Ah yes, guilt my association. Congrats, Tatsuma, you just used the very logic that Islamist terrorists use to justify killing Israeli civilians. Way to be part of the problem, you unbelievably ridiculous asshole.
2012-08-28 12:31:32 PM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty:
But if this was in the US and it was a FARK headline of "Family of girl playing in construction site when heavily armored hard to see out of bulldozer strikes her loses lawsuit" most of us would be calling the girl a dumbass and telling the family something similar.


How is a grown woman standing in front of a person's HOME, wearing a bright orange vest and reflective tape, with a megaphone, in any way comparable to a child playing in a construction site?

You're rationalizing murder with a total bullsh*t analogy.
2012-08-28 11:58:40 AM  
1 votes:
KellyX
Would America not offering any money or military aid stop it? No.

Demolition of innocent peoples' homes in occupied territory is actually a really, really serious breach of international law. In a great many instances including this one, we are the only thing standing between Israel and the ire of the international community. I think it's fair to say that this position confers both some degree of responsibility, and some degree of leverage.

Now I'm not naive... taking too strong a stand against Israel could lead them closer to an alliance with one of our foes, calibration is always a part of the diplomacy game. I support a (healthier) US/Israel strategic partnership. But the fact is that in respect to Israeli behavior in the occupied territories, the US holds many more carrots and sticks than it has ever chosen to utilize.
2012-08-28 11:08:04 AM  
1 votes:

jrw8778: For all the goofy farksticks out there she was standing on a dirt embankment in front of the bulldozer, the bulldozer moved forward, causing the embankment to collapse. She fell and her foot became stuck in the dirt. Over her screams and the protestations of the bystanders the bulldozer ran her over, gravely wounding her. Then the operator put it in reverse and backed over her, killing her.

You cannot justify this conduct. Do not try. She was trying to make a stand for what she believed in, agree or disagree she should have been arrested and detained. Not murdered. End of story, Israeli apologists need to get a grip.


She wasn't MURDERED you idiot. It was an accident. The guy driving the bulldozer wasn't some highly trained Mossad officer with evil intentions, he was probably some 19 year old Combat Engineer draftee who had been told to go bulldoze something. He was in a hot, armored box, with crappy visibility (where there wasn't armored plate blocking his view, he probably had 3 inches of scratched up bullet proof glass), and an unmuffled engine that would keep him from hearing anything that was going on outside. And I'm sure he didn't care at all about the idiots outside, he was just trying to do his job well enough to keep his Sergeant off his ass, and maybe get a pass for the weekend so he could go home and bang little Susie Rottencrotch, or whatever the Israeli equivalent is.

This girl was on top of a berm that he was trying to bulldoze. He probably looked down at his controls for a second when he hit it, and wen he looked up, she was gone. He probably assumed she had some sort of brain in her head and had gotten down and out of the way of the multi-ton piece of equipment.

As for the protesters screaming and waving their arms to get him to stop? I'm willing to bet they'd been doing that ALL DAMN DAY. Why would he care any more about at that moment than he did for the other 8 hours they had been screaming at him, and odds on, he couldn't hear them anyway.

And the 'dozer "ran her over, gravely wounding her. Then the operator put it in reverse and backed over her, killing her". Or, you could say "the bulldozer operator, not seeing her, and ignoring the screaming unwashed hippies who were trying to annoy him yet again, drove forward into the berm again, then backed up to hit it one more time, when he realized he'd accidentally run over someone, and probably feels like shait about it."

This was an industrial accident, just because the guy running the bulldozer was doing something you disapprove of, it doesn't make it murder. Accidents happen.
2012-08-28 10:22:05 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: ...how does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?


You speak as if this were an imperative action. Is it fair to say the only people for whom this was a "need" were the primary beneficiaries, and even there it's only a matter of perception? In any case, to answer your question more directly...

Short Answer: One doesn't.

Longer Answer: It's not wise, and it's almost certain to result in bloodshed given the circumstances. Keep in mind that colonial powers had been jerking around mid-eastern peoples for something going on a century by this time. Common wisdom of the time yet to depart had it that this was just standard operating procedure.

But like Manifest Destiny, and other colonial mindsets, the base supposition is nearly always that the people you're jerking around are in some way less entitled to (or deserving of) the land than you- the prospectively homesteading people- are. The situation you have today is the inheritance of that, for the most part.

Perhaps if it had been a different era, the matter could have been handled in a less inequitable, more respectful way, but at some level, you'd have to at least respect that the people who were already there had been there for something going on five centuries, perhaps more, and that's a pretty solid investment of time.

"Homeland" is a pretty subjective term, you have to admit. I've lived in my home town for going on 30 years, does that make it any less a place I sentimentally identify as "my homeland" simply because ten generations of my family grew up here? How about a hundred generations? Do I qualify yet?

Not that I think Jews are any less deserving of a "homeland" than anyone else. In fact, it's exactly because I think this. Life is sometimes unfair like that. And if that sounds like a cop-out, well, wish-fulfillment just isn't part of how I roll. Particularly not where fulfilling one party's wish means this. At some point my practical nature wins out.

Uncle Tractor: Everything critical of Israel is antisemitism. The word no longer has any meaning. It's just marklar at this point.


Eh, while I agree that it's become a sort of "wolf" cry in it's abundance in this day and age, I have to disagree on one rather significant basis. Words that have no meaning don't see much use in a language. It has a meaning. It's diluted perhaps, very bastardized, and certainly not what you or I might like it to be, but it has a meaning.
2012-08-28 10:03:54 AM  
1 votes:

Red Shirt Blues: Frederick: I rate her action on par with the Tiananmen square standoff

That's where I disagree. Those men and women were Chinese citizens in China. Rachel was just, well...a butinski.


If the death in this case was a Palestinian instead, nobody would care. It wouldn't make any press.
2012-08-28 09:47:09 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: Population and land are two different things. Not that there's any point in trying to explain anything to you.

There was land that were exclusively jewish.


No. There was land that was privately owned by jews. Not the same thing.

There was land that were exclusivley arab.

No. There was land that was privately owned by arabs. Not the same thing.

There was mixed land.

...where the majority of the population was arab.

There was empty land.

The terra nullius argument again. Old-school european colonialists love that one.

Say, parts of present-day Israel are currently empty. Does that mean that arabs can move in and declare a new state there?

But according to you all the land was Arab. Yep, you aren't an anti semite at all.

90% of the population was arab. That makes it arab land.

"Anti-semitic?" That term no longer has any meaning.
2012-08-28 09:40:58 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: There was land that were exclusively jewish.
There was land that were exclusivley arab.
There was mixed land.
There was empty land.

But according to you all the land was Arab. Yep, you aren't an anti semite at all.



From someone who makes a point of sitting on a fence on the whole Israel/Palestine matter, I'm not sure that the land being only 90% Arabic constitutes a tacit denial of 10% Israeli ownership. Ignorance/simplification are still perfectly valid explanations. It's still fair to say, for instance, that it was "mostly Arabic" land.

This really becomes a kinda important observation when you think about what happens with any majority-occupancy demographic whom you suddenly displace, and in particular when you do the displacement without what many might say constitutes "just cause".

I also don't find this "omission" particularly damning evidence of Anti-Semitism on his part. It just feels like nitpicking.
2012-08-28 09:40:22 AM  
1 votes:

mrexcess: Tatsuma
She was burning an American flag with stars of david


In all fairness, the stars look like simple stars meant to be drawn fast with one stroke each, that's how kids in elementary and pre-school drew them.

That flag isn't exactly a facsimile of the real flag and looks to be done as fast as possible with the least amount of effort possible. *shrugs*
2012-08-28 09:17:46 AM  
1 votes:

mrexcess: Tatsuma
No house was demolished that day.

Quoting from Wikipedia:

"On March 16, 2003, an IDF operation in the land between the Rafah refugee camp and the border with Egypt was engaged in demolition of Palestinian houses in Rafah.[22] Corrie was part of a group of seven ISM activists (three British and four US) attempting to disrupt the actions of Israeli bulldozers"


I suspect he will go edit the wikipedia so it conforms to its narrative
2012-08-28 09:14:24 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: Uncle Tractor: ...Says the guy who accuses all critics of Israel of being "anti-semites"

No, just critics of Israel who have double standards that they can't explain. Or people like yourself that claim all of present day Isreal was arab land in 1910, despite it being 10% jewish.


Population and land are two different things. Not that there's any point in trying to explain anything to you.
2012-08-28 09:13:44 AM  
1 votes:

Gunslinger013: SkunkWerks: Gunslinger013: Let me ask you this. What would you do if a foreign military was bulldozing houses in your neighborhood every other day? Sew a farking prayer quilt? Send them a letter asking them to stop?

Well, you'd take the trouble to head to your local planning office, obviously. Where you'd have to go down to the cellar to find the plans. The lights will have probably gone, so bringing a torch is advisable, also, mind the stairs, they might be a bit punky. But surely you'll find the plans at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet in a room with a sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard".

I googled this but I still don't get the reference. I will give you +1 lolz though.

:)


Not the first Hitchhikers' Guide Reference here. Likely it won't be the last. Honestly it's the only thing worth reading the thread for.
2012-08-28 09:07:28 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: Uncle Tractor: What did those palestinians do that was illegal? Own land in the zionist living space?

Dig tunnels into Egypt to smuggle arms.


Sez who? The IDF? Not that it really matters, because:

You do realize that Israel pulled out of Gaza, right?

Then why were they demolishing homes in Gaza? For that matter, if Israel has pulled out of Gaza, what business of theirs is it if the people of Gaza decide to dig tunnels? (to smuggle arms etc)

How exacly was that zionist living space? Even when they had settlements Rafah wasn't one of them.

Oh, I assume they're saving it for when the WB is araberrein. There wouldn't have been any colonies there to begin with if that wasn't the case.
2012-08-28 09:07:20 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: See, the death of innocents is always a tragedy. However:

When you go out and associate yourself with a group like the ISM, you are not an innocent.
When you go out in order to protest the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and try to physically prevent acts necessary for the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and put yourself in physical danger after being told repeatedly for hours to move out of the way while protecting said tunnels, you are not an innocent.

Rachel Corrie was not innocent. This is not Rachel Corrie in Gaza:
[www.kabobfest.com image 299x287]

This is Rachel Corrie in Gaza.
[www.thejc.com image 490x245]

There she was, burning an American flag with stars of david on it. She was someone who believed that Jews controlled America, someone who hated America, and someone who supported terrorists who oppress human rights of those around them (as clearly seen by the Hamas rule in Gaza) and are responsible for the death of hundreds of Israeli civilians.

She was actively engaged in helping terrorists smuggle weapons to kill Jews.

She supported a group who has an avowed goal of genocide against Jews, enshrined in its charter.

She was not an innocent.


The ISM are a group who openly declare that they support 'violent struggle' and consider terrorist acts by groups such as Hamas as legitimate. Their members have often been caught collaborating with Hamas, smuggling messages by using their status as international protesters to get them across, they have shielded terrorists in their offices to prevent arrests by the IDF, they have formed human shields around tunnels that are used to smuggle weapons to kill innocents, and in certain cases, they have even shielded and drove around terrorists who then blew themselves up, such as the case of Mike's Place suicide bombing. Oh, and that was not too long before they were laying wraiths with these two guys in G ...



Jesus Tits, who invited Netantyahu?
2012-08-28 09:01:47 AM  
1 votes:

liam76: Uncle Tractor: That's not a Holocaust denial; it's a simple question, and as far as I can tell from skimming through that thread, you didn't even try to answer. Probably because you couldn't.

He didn't just ask a question, he said "there appears to be a disconnect".


There was a disconnect in the facts as they had been presented him. That make him ask a question. You, in return, flew off the handle. As always.

No grown adult is that farking clueless that they can't even google a simple answer.

Then why didn't you google the simple answer for him? For that matter, why didn't you already know the answer?

Someone who makes a statement like that isn't looking for answers, they are trying to muddy the water.

...Says the guy who accuses all critics of Israel of being "anti-semites" ...
2012-08-28 08:54:34 AM  
1 votes:
Rachel Corrie was a girl who died while protesting the demolition of a family's home. It's that simple, basic fact that all the politics obscures, sometimes quite deliberately.

She wasn't there because she cared about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as some clash of civilizations in which she had to align herself, she wasn't on some crusade for her religion or nationalist agenda, she was there to draw attention to the fact that horrible stuff like that innocent family's house being torn down for no reason happens regularly in a conflict she felt some collective responsibility for. I don't wonder why that fact gets lost in the discussion, but I do lament it.
2012-08-28 08:48:07 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: mrexcess: Funny, now you have concern for the facts and for the use of ad hominem. Just a minute ago, you were labeling a dead peace activist an America hating terrorist supporter.

Your scales are unbalanced, sir.

She was burning an American flag with stars of david, declared America was ZOG and supported Hamas.

ISM aren't peace activists, they support violent actions by Hamas. They say so openly


So again, they're like Israeli settlers. They just support violent actions by the IDF instead.
2012-08-28 08:46:20 AM  
1 votes:
Tatsuma: Here are a few ISM members chilling with their friends:

Let me ask you this. What would you do if a foreign military was bulldozing houses in your neighborhood every other day? Sew a farking prayer quilt? Send them a letter asking them to stop?


When you go out in order to protest the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and try to physically prevent acts necessary for the demolition of tunnels used to smuggle weapons, you are not an innocent.
When you go out and put yourself in physical danger after being told repeatedly for hours to move out of the way while protecting said tunnels, you are not an innocent.


Anyone else bother to do a text search in the original article for the word 'tunnels'?

She was someone who believed that Jews controlled America

Tats - even you have to admit that American foreign policy goes to disproportionate amazing lengths to favor Israel. Something like this goes on long enough people get all tinfoil-hatty.

someone who hated America

You need to present some evidence of that or it looks like you're just name calling. She try to blow up a post office or something?

The ISM are a group who openly declare that they support 'violent struggle' and consider terrorist acts by groups such as Hamas as legitimate.

I will admit I am not widely read on the ISM. I don't know their particular history or practices. The Palestinian people and Israel are already in a violent struggle. Is the bulldozing of homes not a terrorist act? Don't come back with the 'magical weapons tunnel' crap either. Maybe it was a tunnel this time (the article doesn't specify) but it is common knowledge that the IDF bulldozes homes.

There are two sides to this issue. Presenting Israel as the innocent victim only acting in self defense falls somewhere between ignorant disingenuous.
2012-08-28 08:44:06 AM  
1 votes:

mrexcess: Tatsuma
Whenever mrexcess holds a position that can't be substantiated by fact, he just attacks the poster instead

Funny, now you have concern for the facts and for the use of ad hominem. Just a minute ago, you were labeling a dead peace activist an America hating terrorist supporter.

Your scales are unbalanced, sir.


To be fair, he did provide proof.
2012-08-28 08:43:21 AM  
1 votes:

mrexcess: Funny, now you have concern for the facts and for the use of ad hominem. Just a minute ago, you were labeling a dead peace activist an America hating terrorist supporter.

Your scales are unbalanced, sir.


She was burning an American flag with stars of david, declared America was ZOG and supported Hamas.

ISM aren't peace activists, they support violent actions by Hamas. They say so openly
2012-08-28 08:42:27 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: mrexcess: Whenever Tatsuma starts in on one of his 3 page long posts, you know you're being fed some bullshiat.

Whenever mrexcess holds a position that can't be substantiated by fact, he just attacks the poster instead


And whenever someone disagrees with your bullshiat you ignore them... point?
2012-08-28 08:40:36 AM  
1 votes:
Tatsuma
Whenever mrexcess holds a position that can't be substantiated by fact, he just attacks the poster instead

Funny, now you have concern for the facts and for the use of ad hominem. Just a minute ago, you were labeling a dead peace activist an America hating terrorist supporter.

Your scales are unbalanced, sir.
2012-08-28 08:39:02 AM  
1 votes:
I can't even bring myself to click on the article. Israel makes me sick. I am an American and I wish we would stop supporting that nation, at least until it makes some sort of attempt to comply with international law. What they're doing in Gaza is nothing less than an extermination, but unless you seek out the news for yourself, all Americans hear about is when some desperate moron blows himself up in a nightclub in Tel Aviv. I'm going to stop before I Godwin the hell out of this, but I will simply say that if Canada somehow was able to occupy my neighborhood and went to mow my shiat down, I would not be simply "Standing in the way." The driver is going to be blown up.
2012-08-28 08:19:13 AM  
1 votes:

mrexcess: Whenever Tatsuma starts in on one of his 3 page long posts, you know you're being fed some bullshiat.


Whenever mrexcess holds a position that can't be substantiated by fact, he just attacks the poster instead
2012-08-28 07:51:57 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: jaybeezey: You do something deemed illegal in your country and tell me just how long that property remains private.

What did those palestinians do that was illegal? Own land in the zionist living space?


Dig tunnels into Egypt to smuggle arms.

You do realize that Israel pulled out of Gaza, right? How exacly was that zionist living space? Even when they had settlements Rafah wasn't one of them.
2012-08-28 07:48:17 AM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Here are a few ISM members chilling with their friends:


Completely indistinguishable from settlers. Is that supposed to mean something?
2012-08-28 07:47:26 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Except she wasnt at a "construction site", she was at the home of a Palestinian family where she was a guest. That bulldozer wasnt there to build something it was there to destroy that families home.


Except that this lie has been debunked over and over and over again. Especially easy to know since, you know, no houses were destroyed and videos and pictures of the incident clearly shows that they weren't around houses.
2012-08-28 07:39:28 AM  
1 votes:
Fact: Israel is just as bad as anyone else. No better. No worse.

Fact: Standing in front of a piece of heavy machinery could get you killed on any job site in the world where no politics are involved. It's a farking dumb thing to do.
2012-08-28 07:39:06 AM  
1 votes:
Not the first time the IDF has killed Americans, nor the last.
2012-08-28 07:37:53 AM  
1 votes:

Witchyman: tjassen: Satanic_Hamster: I've worked around heavy equipment all my professional life. Their line of site can be very poor at times, much less an "armored" version like shown in the picture.

It's generally not a good idea to get in front of them period, much less at a distance under 50'.

For reference here is a picture I took during reserve training a couple of years ago of the type of armored bulldozer in question.

I'm in the IDF Combat Engineers Corps, and the bulldozer drivers are one of our units. We usually have a few when we do big maneuvers. Way back when in Basic or Advanced training we got to operate one. They are BIG Motherfarkers, and yes, sight lines suck.
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 640x480]

Posting this to put things in context obviously will make you be viewed as a racist and a misogynist.


I'm an Israeli and IDF veteran, so no matter what I say I'm racist and misogynistic, according to the rules of FARK Israel ThreadsTM. Not to mention a religious fanatic theocrat warmonger who controls the American government. And a Republican.

But then again, when has reality, facts or rational discourse ever got in the way of an Israel thread on Fark?
2012-08-28 07:36:47 AM  
1 votes:
"Hey everybody, stop shooting. I'm an American!"
2012-08-28 07:35:48 AM  
1 votes:
American foreign policy says that Israel is never at fault for anything anyway.
2012-08-28 07:34:46 AM  
1 votes:
Look, I'm gonna start swinging my arms around and walking toward you. It's not my fault when you get hit by my arms. Protesters are just stupid. As long as they are trying to defend something I oppose. Like the people living on the land I was given by edict 60 years ago that they and their ancestors lived on for millenia before that. I was also given weapons and material to "defend" "my" land. If they wanted the land more, they get something better than "human shields".
2012-08-28 07:31:52 AM  
1 votes:
FaRk YoU Israeli Court, judge, and military.

That is all.
2012-08-28 07:27:24 AM  
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: What did those palestinians do that was illegal? Own land in the zionist living space?


Be non-Jewish on a sunny day.
2012-08-28 07:26:38 AM  
1 votes:

tjassen: Satanic_Hamster: I've worked around heavy equipment all my professional life. Their line of site can be very poor at times, much less an "armored" version like shown in the picture.

It's generally not a good idea to get in front of them period, much less at a distance under 50'.

For reference here is a picture I took during reserve training a couple of years ago of the type of armored bulldozer in question.

I'm in the IDF Combat Engineers Corps, and the bulldozer drivers are one of our units. We usually have a few when we do big maneuvers. Way back when in Basic or Advanced training we got to operate one. They are BIG Motherfarkers, and yes, sight lines suck.
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 640x480]


Posting this to put things in context obviously will make you be viewed as a racist and a misogynist.
2012-08-28 07:06:53 AM  
1 votes:
I'd stand in front of a bulldozer, but I sure as shiat wouldn't clamber up the rotating pill of dirt that is being push along by it.
2012-08-28 07:01:44 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: The bulldozer and Corrie were on private property. What would you do if a bulldozer prepared to demolish your house?


I would probably move out of the way. But luckily I live in a country of laws where some native american can't bulldoze my house because he had an ancestor living there 1500 years ago.

Statute of limitations, Israel. Learn what it means.
2012-08-28 06:20:28 AM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: Placing yourself in front of heavy machinery never ends well.

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 395x234]


Just ask Arthur Dent.
2012-08-28 06:16:19 AM  
1 votes:
israel needs to diaf. after shipping their hot women here.
2012-08-28 04:06:54 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 441x232]

What if "HERE" is your yard where your family lived for 5 generations?


I disagree with many of the Israeli policies.

But my main point is, don't stand in front of bulldozers, especially heavily armored bulldozers.

And if you're protesting the inhumane actions of a government that you detest by placing your body on the line, well, .... well there's a logic flaw there.
2012-08-28 03:04:27 AM  
1 votes:

cman: How can an American citizen sue a sovereign nation?



Fixt. Not asking for how I could sue, I was asking for how a sovereign nation could be forced to defend itself in a court of law by a lowly American citizen
2012-08-28 03:02:47 AM  
1 votes:
How does an American citizen sue a sovereign nation?
2012-08-28 02:53:04 AM  
1 votes:
so much for a "jury of your peers" eh?
 
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