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(Science Daily)   Adolescent pot use shown to leave lasting, like, stuff and all   (sciencedaily.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, photos, Institute of Psychiatry, development studies, shortages, teenagers, marijuana  
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9272 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2012 at 8:27 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-27 05:05:15 PM  
- The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?
 
2012-08-27 05:11:55 PM  

namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?


Especially for actual adults?
 
2012-08-27 05:19:24 PM  
Good thing I didn't start until I was 17.
 
2012-08-27 05:56:43 PM  
What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.
 
2012-08-27 06:04:23 PM  
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
 
2012-08-27 06:08:03 PM  

FloydA: The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do


No wonder you don't see teenagers smoking cigarettes.
 
2012-08-27 06:19:01 PM  
I agree with these findings, as I started smoking dope at 14 and quit when I was 21. There's no way I'm as smart now as I was when I was 13.
 
2012-08-27 06:37:50 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: I agree with these findings, as I started smoking dope at 14 and quit when I was 21.


That's like, 20 years man.
 
2012-08-27 06:41:52 PM  
Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.
 
2012-08-27 06:44:00 PM  
Good thing my adolescent IQ was around 150.
 
2012-08-27 06:46:25 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: FloydA: The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do

No wonder you don't see teenagers smoking cigarettes.


It was a hell of a lot harder to get cigarettes in high school than it was to get pot (or any other illegal substance for that matter).
 
2012-08-27 06:48:26 PM  
Adolescent's use of everything is shown to leave lasting stuff. EVERYTHING
 
2012-08-27 06:49:59 PM  
So keep on popping that methylphenidate and anti-depressants, kids!
 
2012-08-27 06:51:00 PM  
Dumb.
 
2012-08-27 06:52:29 PM  

scottydoesntknow: It was a hell of a lot harder to get cigarettes in high school than it was to get pot (or any other illegal substance for that matter).


No wonder I never saw any of the kids in my high school smoking every single day.
 
2012-08-27 06:57:48 PM  
Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.
 
2012-08-27 06:59:58 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: scottydoesntknow: It was a hell of a lot harder to get cigarettes in high school than it was to get pot (or any other illegal substance for that matter).

No wonder I never saw any of the kids in my high school smoking every single day.


What kind of point are you trying to make? Of course some will get a hold of cigarettes (and booze), but I've never known a single dealer to turn away business based on age or lack of ID.
 
2012-08-27 07:21:20 PM  

scottydoesntknow: What kind of point are you trying to make? Of course some will get a hold of cigarettes (and booze), but I've never known a single dealer to turn away business based on age or lack of ID.


We got booze just about every weekend. And cases of beer (and during one phase, cases of 40's) are big and relatively heavy. Not super easy to sneak around. You could balance an equal supply of weed on your head.

My point? There are plenty of good arguments for legalizing marijuana; less access for teens ain't one of them.
 
2012-08-27 07:42:32 PM  
I remember reading that smoking pot reduced testosterone and sex drive.  So I spent my teen years smoking joints in between bouts of flogging my wang into a state of bloody callouses, praying to god that it would eventually actually work.
 
2012-08-27 07:46:32 PM  
I don't know seriously if weed made me less intelligent. How could I? Maybe this is as smart as I was going to get, which sucks. I'm right in that zone where I'm not some ultra-genius who can think through any problem, but I am also "blessed" with enough self-awareness and self-analytical thinking that I second-guess myself, and don't seem to breeze through life like some of the less intelligent people I know.

I think it is possible weed dampened my enthusiasm for things and impaired my social abilities. Then again, I might have turned out to be somewhat shy and introverted anyway. IQ tests are pseudo-science anyway, IMO.
 
2012-08-27 07:49:51 PM  

IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.


If I did smoke, which I would never admit to on a public forum, I would completely agree with you.

I'm just speaking hydroponically, of course.
 
2012-08-27 07:51:43 PM  
That's just like, your opinion, man.
 
2012-08-27 08:02:51 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?

Especially for actual adults?


FTA: "Study subjects who didn't take up pot until they were adults with fully-formed brains did not show similar mental declines."

Another article mentioned that study subjects who started smoking pot during college and later quit had their mental faculties return to nearly their previous levels after a year.

Recent research suggests that the brain is not fully developed until the mid-20s.

If you want to trade a few IQ points and other mental faculties for relief of migraines and other maladies, go ahead. I understand perfectly.

But don't deny that a developing brain is more vulnerable to chemical damage than a mature, stable one. You'll end up sounding like creationists.
 
2012-08-27 08:33:48 PM  
As does 98.7% of the shiat we ingest from our environment, including plastics, btw. Way to over-control the .0whatever%, jackhats.
 
2012-08-27 08:33:55 PM  
Sweet. If I had smoked pot regularly for the last quarter century, which I haven't done of course, I would have started at 23.

/ off to the gym in 23 minutes. Really!
 
2012-08-27 08:35:31 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


I do love you, secretly. ;)
 
2012-08-27 08:35:46 PM  
The results appear online Aug. 27 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

I always giggle when I see the acronym for PNAS
 
2012-08-27 08:35:56 PM  

I LEARNED IT FROM YOU!

 
2012-08-27 08:36:27 PM  
Well. that helps explain President Obama.
 
2012-08-27 08:36:59 PM  
Weed makes me paranoid and hungry, so much so, I can't enjoy it.
 
2012-08-27 08:37:07 PM  
i84.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-27 08:39:10 PM  
every day all day for most of the past 22 years and I'm doing just okey-dokey, smokey
 
2012-08-27 08:39:32 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I want an ice pop


I hate when the banana flavor is the same color as the pineapple. Usually, the greens are harsh and somewhat fruity, and the reds are some passion punch bullshiat, but the yellows, man. Those yellows in the tropical assorted fruit flavors can be either banana or pineapple, which I save for daiquiri, and by daiquiri, I mean add rum or tequila and let them mellow yellow in the glass. Don't add ice, because the ice is in the freezy pop, man. Anyway, don't you hate it when the kids get into your stash of freezy pops?
 
2012-08-27 08:39:48 PM  
I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)
 
2012-08-27 08:40:00 PM  
LOL WUT?
 
2012-08-27 08:40:06 PM  

namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?


It's also been established that depression makes you stupid.

Can't imagine why someone would become a habitual, dependent user of a numbing agent.
 
2012-08-27 08:40:10 PM  
www.skeptic.com

And you'll, like, marvel at the stars and shiat. STARS, man... we're all, like, MADE of them. hehehehe.... whoa.
 
2012-08-27 08:40:20 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-27 08:40:53 PM  
this shiat the kids smoke today is like a sticky green lobotomy
 
2012-08-27 08:41:23 PM  

Indubitably: I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)


Do you think Mastercharge will buy this ad from me?
 
2012-08-27 08:42:07 PM  

namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?


They can't do those, it's illegal.
 
2012-08-27 08:43:15 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


cdn.uproxx.com
 
2012-08-27 08:44:23 PM  
profile.ak.fbcdn.net

// linked... totally linked!
 
2012-08-27 08:44:29 PM  

Indubitably: I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)


indeed it will be the gnarliest!
 
2012-08-27 08:44:34 PM  

mysticcat: Good thing my adolescent IQ was around 150.


If that's true you must have graduated to shooting black tar heroin into your eyeballs to explain a drop this dramatic.
 
2012-08-27 08:44:54 PM  

Point02GPA: Well. that helps explain President Obama.


the guy who graduated summa from Harvard Law? Ya, that devil weed sure did a number on him
 
2012-08-27 08:46:36 PM  
See? I could have been a genius, but instead, I'm just a...SubGenius.
 
2012-08-27 08:47:35 PM  
In addition to making them, their clothes, their rooms, etc. smell like dog shiat?? Sucks for them.
 
2012-08-27 08:47:44 PM  
I imagine any activity that you did obsessively at the expense of time spent challenging yourself academically would lead to an erosion of IQ scores. Especially a developing adolescent mind. You could have the same actual intelligence at 13 that you do at 21 and would score lower at 21 because of how the testing is done. Spending every day in a stupor during a period where your potential for gaining brain power is the greatest is just bad policy regardless. That said, only 8 points? Probably worth it.
 
2012-08-27 08:48:31 PM  

IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.


you are not alone. in fact, i am kind of glad that the guys that made 'road trip' made the weed smoking guy the way they did instead of some skanky wanna-be hippy type that never listens to anything besides marley's legend. it allows him to deal with all kinds of anxiety and other bs that a lot of people might try to drown out with prescription drugs.

/i could teach japanese to a monkey if i knew how to relate the material
 
2012-08-27 08:48:37 PM  

IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.


Like Ed said, I would never smoke pot. But if I did, hypothetically, it would be because I'd found it to be an excellent cure for insomnia. Hypothetically.
 
2012-08-27 08:50:34 PM  
Disclaimer: I am a square from a suburb of Provo Utah. I have never partaken. I'm pretty sure i couldn't recognize the smell if it got blown in my face. But i don't see the point of the war on drugs. We've clearly lost, and we're making it worse.
 
2012-08-27 08:50:51 PM  

divgradcurl: IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.

you are not alone. in fact, i am kind of glad that the guys that made 'road trip' made the weed smoking guy the way they did instead of some skanky wanna-be hippy type that never listens to anything besides marley's legend. it allows him to deal with all kinds of anxiety and other bs that a lot of people might try to drown out with prescription drugs.

/i could teach japanese to a monkey if i knew how to relate the material


*symbol-symbol, symbol*
 
2012-08-27 08:51:44 PM  

Asa Phelps: Disclaimer: I am a square from a suburb of Provo Utah. I have never partaken. I'm pretty sure i couldn't recognize the smell if it got blown in my face. But i don't see the point of the war on drugs. We've clearly lost, and we're making it worse.


So...
 
2012-08-27 08:52:12 PM  

Indubitably: I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)



Alternative: Ecstasy.

/Or possibly cyanide
 
2012-08-27 08:52:45 PM  
Betcha it's still better in the long term than teenage binge drinking.
 
2012-08-27 08:54:24 PM  
This is why you don't start smoking everyday until your 30s.
 
2012-08-27 08:55:07 PM  
The study is effectively correct, but puts its conclusions in misleading terms.

Chronic daily use of cannabis will indeed cause detrimental effects over time. So will alcohol, tobacco, and just about any other substance.

On the other hand, casual intermittent sporadic use has never been shown to be harmful, therefore persons who wish to use this product recreationally should use it only at intermittent intervals to avoid the danger of adverse side effects. Chronic incessant daily use has been determined to cause adverse effects and should be avoided.
 
2012-08-27 08:55:21 PM  
I save all the ice pop plastics and put them on the dishwasher rack's pegs, and sanitize them.
When they are dry, I fill them with fresh picked fruit form the berry patch saturated in sugar and refreeze with a paper clip on the curled top. Each summer yields a better mix.
Add honey or real maple syrup for YMMV.
 
2012-08-27 08:56:27 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

Ready for school, dude.
 
2012-08-27 08:58:52 PM  
Madeline Meier, a post-doctoral researcher at Duke University, which totally sucks.
 
2012-08-27 08:59:20 PM  
Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,

Did they find that sheep were left dissatisfied and sexually unfulfilled?
 
2012-08-27 09:02:21 PM  
Only eight points? I'm fine with that.
 
2012-08-27 09:02:25 PM  

IronJelly: My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.


And you'd know this how?

An 8 point drop in IQ is not something an individual would often notice, but it's definitely something that would show up in large-scale tests. Heavy adolescent weed consumption probably didn't move you from average to retard. More likely, it just moved you from average to slightly less-average.

I get it, you like weed and are loathe to admit it has detrimental, permanent effects on your mental ability. Sucks, but sometimes the truth hurts. Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.
 
2012-08-27 09:03:09 PM  

Amos Quito: Indubitably: I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)


Alternative: Ecstasy.

/Or possibly cyanide


Nope, AQ, unless detrimental effects such as paralyzation are addressed, I stand by my original prescript...i want love for all living, not death; live on.
 
2012-08-27 09:03:22 PM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


Yeah, because underaged kids never drink or smoke or find ways to get alcohol and cigarettes. This will decrease drug use for sure.
 
2012-08-27 09:04:56 PM  

divgradcurl: IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.

you are not alone. in fact, i am kind of glad that the guys that made 'road trip' made the weed smoking guy the way they did instead of some skanky wanna-be hippy type that never listens to anything besides marley's legend. it allows him to deal with all kinds of anxiety and other bs that a lot of people might try to drown out with prescription drugs.

/i could teach japanese to a monkey if i knew how to relate the material


Started smoking pot at 14 quit at 19, started smoking again at 31 to alleviate back problems and anxiety issues. Never felt better, racking up a 4.0 every semester as I work on my Grad degree.

I still don't condone kids using drugs then again I don't condone standardized testing, but it still happens.
 
2012-08-27 09:05:36 PM  

MBooda: Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,

Did they find that sheep were left dissatisfied and sexually unfulfilled?


Do you worry about the size of your penis?
 
2012-08-27 09:06:11 PM  

Indubitably: MBooda: Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,

Did they find that sheep were left dissatisfied and sexually unfulfilled?

Do you worry about the size of your penis?


I don't.
 
2012-08-27 09:06:33 PM  
Damn, if I didn't smoke all that weed in high school I might have ended up smarter and decided not to go to med school. 

/marijuana's bad...mmmkay
 
2012-08-27 09:07:00 PM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


Don't be talkin' all common sense n sh*t.
 
2012-08-27 09:07:12 PM  
img1.fark.net like when you're 14 and she sticks her hand right down inside your drawers.

/that's just like my opinion, maaaaan
//nice to see miss diminutive followin' me into threads before I get there
 
2012-08-27 09:07:54 PM  

medius: this shiat the kids smoke today is like a sticky green lobotomy


LOL I found my son's stash a few years back. Holy hell- a half dozen juicy squishy moist buds. They didn't have shiat like that back in the day.

I wish I had a csb but the hubby works for the FAA and I have professional licenses I want to keep. We didn't smoke it but I sent it to a good home where it would be loved and cared for.

If I would have smoked what was in that bag, they would have found me drooling in a corner a week later.
 
2012-08-27 09:08:00 PM  
pcdn.500px.net
Love the secondhand smoke.
 
jvl
2012-08-27 09:08:59 PM  

Oznog: And you'll, like, marvel at the stars and shiat. STARS, man... we're all, like, MADE of them. hehehehe.... whoa.


When discussing Carl Sagan's use of marijuana, it is important to point out that you are not Carl Farking Sagan and should not attempt to draw conclusions from his use.
 
2012-08-27 09:09:45 PM  
sample bias
 
2012-08-27 09:09:45 PM  

mekki: FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.

Yeah, because underaged kids never drink or smoke or find ways to get alcohol and cigarettes. This will decrease drug use for sure.


Good thing that's not the case. Because if it were, it'd totally prove that it was easier for teens to get booze and cigs than it is for them to get weed.

/I'm not entirely sure which way the sarcasm is even going anymore
//to be more clear, my actual point is "it's easier for teens to get pot than booze" != "it's hard for teens to get booze".
 
2012-08-27 09:10:07 PM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: MBooda: Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,

Did they find that sheep were left dissatisfied and sexually unfulfilled?

Do you worry about the size of your penis?

I don't.


What is the point of the penis?

To impart genetic materials to impregnate a female of your desired genetic pairing, no?

Oh, the sex part?

A good man can use his penis to make women stalk him.

This has happened to me more than once.

Twice, in fact.

It isn't pleasant, actually.

Penis.

;)
 
2012-08-27 09:10:25 PM  
So couldn't this just be a difference between the IQ tests for 13 year olds and 18 year olds?
 
2012-08-27 09:10:44 PM  
So people lose a few IQ points in exchange for being able to cope with life's lemons and enjoying life's lemonade just that much more?

I'd say it's a fair trade. Besides, people should have the right to do whatever the fark they want.
 
2012-08-27 09:11:03 PM  
This is like wow, like you know like life changing. Like dude OMG. Like should I have not done that?

Bullshait!
 
2012-08-27 09:11:50 PM  
"Marijuana is not harmless, particularly for adolescents," and "Quitting pot did not appear to reverse the loss either", said lead researcher Madeline Meier. Anybody else notice she said nothing about correlation != causation? Agenda, have 1 she might.
 
2012-08-27 09:11:58 PM  

Rasraf Mekerk: Damn, if I didn't smoke all that weed in high school I might have ended up smarter and decided not to go to med school. 

/marijuana's bad...mmmkay


That weed ruined your life.

/nurse- just as bad.
 
2012-08-27 09:12:39 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: FloydA: The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do

No wonder you don't see teenagers smoking cigarettes.


A lot of teens get their smokes from their parents.

Sometimes for Christmas.

Smoke up, Johnny!


/did I stutter?
 
2012-08-27 09:12:42 PM  
Decrease in IQ? Of course. It is the only explanation for why pot heads seem to think that legalization would increase tax revenue.

Even the Choom Gang knew that it affects IQ.
 
2012-08-27 09:12:47 PM  

jvl: Oznog: And you'll, like, marvel at the stars and shiat. STARS, man... we're all, like, MADE of them. hehehehe.... whoa.

When discussing Carl Sagan's use of marijuana, it is important to point out that you are not Carl Farking Sagan and should not attempt to draw conclusions from his use.


Dude, I had teh munchies so bad I smothered like this whole pile of star stuff with queso and hot sauce. That shiat was dank!
 
2012-08-27 09:13:48 PM  

Indubitably: What is the point of the penis?


does your penis come to a point? does it come to a head? when it comes to head, is the point to come?

the penis, pointing the way ahead

/come again?
 
2012-08-27 09:14:15 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


The mysteries of the universe cannot be explained

tis a thing of beauty Ninja
 
2012-08-27 09:15:34 PM  
Personally, my long term memory is shot to bits. Others I know have had the same effect.
 
2012-08-27 09:16:01 PM  

medius: Indubitably: What is the point of the penis?

does your penis come to a point? does it come to a head? when it comes to head, is the point to come?

the penis, pointing the way ahead

/come again?


er/...
 
2012-08-27 09:16:12 PM  
I believe this. I noticed a mental change in myself, the way I process information, my memory, etc. after quitting. I was never a pothead, but I smoked at least once a week or more from 13-17ish. It was quite a struggle that first year after quitting. My short term memory was shot and I found it more difficult to concentrate and organize my thoughts. These are problems I still have and I really don't remember having the same problems prior to smoking. Of course it could have also been the acid, but that was only like 10 times (lol I know how devastating that crap can be). I wish I could take at least the last part back :/. I certainly wouldn't mind having a more coherent line of thinking with the ability to concentrate and organize my thoughts and absorb information more easily. I guess I'll never know if it was the weed or if I'm just stupid. I usually just say I'm dumb, but maybe weed can be my scapegoat and now I can be a victim! It's not my fault I smoked that weed and it made me stupid, I was just stupid to do that! Wait what?

/incoherent
 
2012-08-27 09:16:18 PM  

medius: Indubitably: What is the point of the penis?

does your penis come to a point? does it come to a head? when it comes to head, is the point to come?

the penis, pointing the way ahead

/come again?


Realize:Legalize.

End the prohibition.
 
2012-08-27 09:16:44 PM  

We're gonna need a lot more stupid people if we're ever gonna get to...

img855.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-27 09:17:17 PM  
I'm totally pro-legalization, but the responses from stoners to these studies is always hilarious. "Hey man, that's like, so not true. Pot cures my fibromyalgia and increases my brain function, dude."

Just be honest pot-heads, being high feels awesome. That's all the justification you need. Stop trying to rationalize that it's just miracle drug, it makes you look like a kinda dumb burn-out.
 
2012-08-27 09:18:00 PM  

spamdog: Personally, my long term memory is shot to bits. Others I know have had the same effect.


So is mine and I havent smoked in 25 years. You are just farking old- sorry.

God, I miss weed. I think I ended up in the same state without it- might as well have enjoyed life.
 
2012-08-27 09:18:39 PM  
Yeah, but what's the IQ hit from adolescent binge drinking?

Or binge drinking at any age, for that matter?

Can we have a comparison study of the effects of legal drugs in large quantities, compared to illegal drugs in similar quantities?

Can I be on that study, testing for the illicit side?
 
2012-08-27 09:21:06 PM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?
 
2012-08-27 09:21:37 PM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: MBooda: Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,


A good man can use his penis to make women stalk him.

This has happened to me more than once.

Twice, in fact.

It isn't pleasant, actually.

Penis.

;)


No more drugs for that man.
 
2012-08-27 09:22:02 PM  

IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.


You're not.

I get terrible insomnia/headaches and frequently have trouble in verbal conversations because I have a very, VERY active brain. Thoughts are complex and race a mile a minute and are usually very loud, making it nearly impossible to do things that normal people take for granted, like relaxing or meditating or committing to moments and experiences. It's like having a thousand voices shouting about a thousand different things in unison, and trying to pick one out of the din.

About the only thing that slows my thought processes down to a normal, human rate is cannabis (especially strong indicas). Without it, I can't pick a single thought or idea out of the rushing torrent. But with it, I can pick an idea or topic and stick with it. With it, I can calm my mind enough that I can actually enjoy life around me instead of constantly analyzing it. With it, I can have blissful, undisturbed sleep.

I really need to get my NM MMJ card soon. I'm getting exhausted again and the headaches are getting worse.
 
2012-08-27 09:22:09 PM  
I gotta laugh. Fark provides abundant proof of John Kenneth Galbraith's observation: when confronted with a choice between changing their minds or proving it isn't necessary to do so, most people immediately get busy on the proof.

Enjoy your buzzes.
 
2012-08-27 09:23:25 PM  

Mithiwithi: mekki: FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.

Yeah, because underaged kids never drink or smoke or find ways to get alcohol and cigarettes. This will decrease drug use for sure.

Good thing that's not the case. Because if it were, it'd totally prove that it was easier for teens to get booze and cigs than it is for them to get weed.

/I'm not entirely sure which way the sarcasm is even going anymore
//to be more clear, my actual point is "it's easier for teens to get pot than booze" != "it's hard for teens to get booze".


If you think it's hard for teens to get booze then you've been around some really dumb, lazy teens. No one I knew had any problem getting booze. That's what older siblings, older relatives, older friends and "cool" parents were for.
 
2012-08-27 09:23:49 PM  
Umfufu:Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?


They'll just be selling less weed. There will still be plenty of crack and meth to sell!
 
2012-08-27 09:23:51 PM  

Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?


Yes I do. Do you see people selling booze and cigarettes on the street?

forum.stratovarius.com
 
2012-08-27 09:24:23 PM  

RandomRandom: Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.



and who the fark would want this? i take it you don't enjoy any coffee or other kinds of stimulants to get you going in the morning? humans have an innate desire to change their perceptions of the world. this occurs whether you have access to drugs or not. why do you think choking/oxygen deprivation games are so popular amongst kids?
 
2012-08-27 09:26:39 PM  

divgradcurl: RandomRandom: Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.


and who the fark would want this? i take it you don't enjoy any coffee or other kinds of stimulants to get you going in the morning? humans have an innate desire to change their perceptions of the world. this occurs whether you have access to drugs or not. why do you think choking/oxygen deprivation games are so popular amongst kids?


In the fitness/gym world, we have something called "bro science." This seems like "stoner science."
 
2012-08-27 09:28:37 PM  

nmemkha: Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?

Yes I do. Do you see people selling booze and cigarettes on the street?

[forum.stratovarius.com image 491x379]


I DO NOT EVER WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN. Phillip Morris would totally fark over weed spraying it with the nastiest shiat they can find. Glass pipe, nice juicy bud, that's the way it should be. Fark P.M.!
 
2012-08-27 09:30:26 PM  

GentlemanJ: See? I could have been a genius, but instead, I'm just a...SubGenius.


Nobody was looking. Do it again.
 
2012-08-27 09:31:03 PM  
IQ tests are lame anyway. You spend your time smoking and weed and watching cartoons instead of doing sudoku, and your brain gets lazy instead of forming the kinds of habits you need to do well on an IQ test. Somebody who did nothing but watch porn all day over the same period would probably see the same drop in "performance." Doesn't mean anything.
 
2012-08-27 09:31:17 PM  
in america adults cannot smoke a cigarette in most bars, restaurants or places of employment. i don't expect maryjane laws to get lax coast to coast anytime soon.

worried about the children? i'd worry too except there are so many alcoholics, drug abusers, wife/husband/child beaters, mentally ill, undereducated, ignorant, redneck, unemployed, republican, democrat, and religion mind-farked people having and raising these children that it really doesn't matter a crap. we have a country full of trash, amen.
 
2012-08-27 09:32:25 PM  
What?
 
2012-08-27 09:32:45 PM  
because, man, squirrels the indubitable pocket ninja

It's a watchword round here
 
2012-08-27 09:33:28 PM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


It's pretty easy to get alcohol when you're a kid. A lot easier than weed, actually, for most people. You walk to the fridge and grab a beer, or walk to the liquor cabinet and grab a bottle of jack, or walk to the wine rack and grab a bottle of wine. Don't even need to leave the house.

And, no, access to black market pot all of the sudden won't disappear if drugs are legalized. The difference between drinkable alcohol, today's smokeable tobacco, and smokeable marijuana is pretty vast as far as cultivation and preparation goes. You need orders of magnitude less labor and investment to grow marijuana than to make drinkable alcohol or tobacco
 
2012-08-27 09:35:34 PM  
Well, I'm not sure one could argue they smoke pot and are intelligent when they're choosing to partake in something that is illegal and could screw their life up if caught. At the very least you're lacking common sense which is almost par with being stupid.
 
2012-08-27 09:36:15 PM  
I hate this idea of IQ being a static number that will remain the same for the rest of your life barring external factors (like marijuana use). Your IQ is like your weight. It fluctuates as you develop and age.
 
2012-08-27 09:39:07 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: divgradcurl: RandomRandom: Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.


and who the fark would want this? i take it you don't enjoy any coffee or other kinds of stimulants to get you going in the morning? humans have an innate desire to change their perceptions of the world. this occurs whether you have access to drugs or not. why do you think choking/oxygen deprivation games are so popular amongst kids?

In the fitness/gym world, we have something called "bro science." This seems like "stoner science."


heh. i would never take anything anybody says about science in places like /fit/ or misc seriously, however, you would be partially correct that this is sort of "stoner reasoning" i read this argument in either "from chocolate to morphine" or the "the natural mind." both books by a alternative medicine doctor named andrew weil. the argument seemed convincing and has stayed with when thinking about how we handle different substances and how they affect our minds/perceptions.
 
2012-08-27 09:39:13 PM  
Thinking in my own regard, honestly, I'd have to agree. Somewhere in my youth I simply lost the ability to understand math. Algebra-Trig it started and then pre-calc was it. Done. Couldn't get it. And at one time math seemed so easy but I remember I just hit a wall mentally. Exactly around the time I started finding weed more enjoyable and available. However, I also around that time discovered I had a fair knack for writing, playing and creating music, and even a spark of artistic talents. Not exactly intelligent stuff, at least measurable. So to math's loss was music's gain.

/ such as it was
 
Oak
2012-08-27 09:39:24 PM  
I agree: you probably shouldn't smoke pot until you're 18. I smoked it twice before I was 18, but I don't consider myself any kind of role model. I didn't start smoking more enthusiastically until I was older than 18; I advocate waiting.

But it still oughta be treated by the law more like alcohol than heroin.
 
2012-08-27 09:41:16 PM  

trappedspirit: GentlemanJ: See? I could have been a genius, but instead, I'm just a...SubGenius.

Nobody was looking. Do it again.


Sorry, meant to post the great and holy Dobbshead of Glory, but got distracted. This would not have happened were I on weed.

i1094.photobucket.com

dv-ous: IQ tests are lame anyway. You spend your time smoking and weed and watching cartoons instead of doing sudoku, and your brain gets lazy instead of forming the kinds of habits you need to do well on an IQ test. Somebody who did nothing but watch porn all day over the same period would probably see the same drop in "performance." Doesn't mean anything.


I freaking LOVE Sudoku when stoned. Also any kind of brain-training or memory enhancement programs. My best Ars Memorativa work happens while baked. Heheh- arse.
 
2012-08-27 09:41:21 PM  
Its science man. Like global warming.
 
2012-08-27 09:42:31 PM  

GentlemanJ: See? I could have been a genius, but instead, I'm just a...SubGenius.


Slack for you!
Slack for me!
You should join us,
or don't, and Fark off
 
2012-08-27 09:43:13 PM  

bhcompy: FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.

It's pretty easy to get alcohol when you're a kid. A lot easier than weed, actually, for most people. You walk to the fridge and grab a beer, or walk to the liquor cabinet and grab a bottle of jack, or walk to the wine rack and grab a bottle of wine. Don't even need to leave the house.

And, no, access to black market pot all of the sudden won't disappear if drugs are legalized. The difference between drinkable alcohol, today's smokeable tobacco, and smokeable marijuana is pretty vast as far as cultivation and preparation goes. You need orders of magnitude less labor and investment to grow marijuana than to make drinkable alcohol or tobacco


Why do people believe this tripe? Weed is just as labor intensive as tobacco and booze. Actually, making moonshine is way easier and faster.

Also, if alcohol was that easy to get then your parents were to blame, not an inanimate object.

/the kids are alright
 
2012-08-27 09:44:10 PM  

LamOtter: Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: MBooda: Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders,


A good man can use his penis to make women stalk him.

This has happened to me more than once.

Twice, in fact.

It isn't pleasant, actually.

Penis.

;)

No more drugs for that man.


Seriously?

Your penis decrys.
 
2012-08-27 09:47:53 PM  

lewismarktwo: Why do people believe this tripe? Weed is just as labor intensive as tobacco and booze. Actually, making moonshine is way easier and faster.


Because uneducated folks think you just plant a seed and out pops a plant and you put the plant in a pipe and smoke it.

Few people other than growers realize what a fickle plant it is to grow properly, or how sensitive it is to pests, or how labor intensive trimming is, or how long it takes to dry and cure buds to have an actual smokeable product that's worth a damn.
 
2012-08-27 09:51:43 PM  
Yeahhhhhh....here comes this old argument.

I'm 43 and smoked pot in my teens like my life depended on it. Now, I'm the software development architect for a major company. I've forgotten more about programming than most people know.

My brain work fine. It work. Yes. Fine it work...
 
2012-08-27 09:52:07 PM  
I think this is pretty common sense, kids should be kept away from all street drugs, and alcohol too. Also, this study was funded by the government. It's not like the government has a vested interest in demonizing the effects of cannabis.

"The study was published online Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It was funded with governmental grants from the United States and Britain, and a foundation in Zurich."
 
2012-08-27 09:52:43 PM  
Growin' lotsa bloomers is hard; cannabis is easy. Do you think the plant would go ahead and make its imbibers dumb if doing so would effect its survival?
 
2012-08-27 09:53:17 PM  

drayno76: nmemkha: Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?

Yes I do. Do you see people selling booze and cigarettes on the street?

[forum.stratovarius.com image 491x379]

I DO NOT EVER WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN. Phillip Morris would totally fark over weed spraying it with the nastiest shiat they can find. Glass pipe, nice juicy bud, that's the way it should be. Fark P.M.!


The point is, my smelly hippie friend, that legalization will bring in Big Business(tm) and that will lead to lobbying that will lead to the opening of legal channels and harsh crackdowns on illegal ones. Sure Big Tobacco will try and sell their processed poison, but I suspect mom-pot shops will open everywhere as entrepreneurs cater to a boutique market.
 
2012-08-27 09:53:37 PM  

vudukungfu: Pocket Ninja: I want an ice pop

I hate when the banana flavor is the same color as the pineapple. Usually, the greens are harsh and somewhat fruity, and the reds are some passion punch bullshiat, but the yellows, man. Those yellows in the tropical assorted fruit flavors can be either banana or pineapple, which I save for daiquiri, and by daiquiri, I mean add rum or tequila and let them mellow yellow in the glass. Don't add ice, because the ice is in the freezy pop, man. Anyway, don't you hate it when the kids get into your stash of freezy pops?


I've done my best to keep out of this but now the two of you have forced my hand.

First of all, there is a distinct difference in the shade of yellow when differentiating between the pineapple pop and it's lessor known cousin, the banana pop- the former having a washed out yellowish tint which can easily be confused for another common flavor: lemon-- and the latter which is a rich yellow tone that could only be attributed to the banana pop.

Secondly, you'd have cullinary manners of a freaking barbarian that would allow such a discussion such as this to come up. Do you really know of any company that would so foolishly include pops of similar color but completely different flavors to be distributed in the same carton to the general public? Of course not. Then why then would you be vexed by two different flavors similar in color encased in that yellow and brown stained, frost encrusteded hole you call a freezer? That's right, my friend, left-overs from times gone by- the dreaded second , third, forth generational remains of yellow popsicles gone by.

This is no way to treat a pop. Give them dignified depature they've truly earned. Peel off that soiled protective paper coat, drop them in the sink, shower them with luke warm water, and give them back to the Earth from whence they came.

PS. Ya don't know shiat from shinola, kiddies: the red pops are usually chemically enhanced cherry flavored and not an exotic mix of tropical fruit juices yo've been led by that ring in your collective noses to believe they are.
 
2012-08-27 09:56:26 PM  
I smoke pot daily (I have early stage Parkinson's) and I am able to work as a freelance software developer and juggle multiple projects while meeting my deadlines.

I hope the "Hippie Pot Smoking Loser" stereotype dies with the Boomers.
 
2012-08-27 09:57:16 PM  

scottydoesntknow: What kind of point are you trying to make? Of course some will get a hold of cigarettes (and booze), but I've never known a single dealer to turn away business based on age or lack of ID.


I think the point is that this claim that legalizing marijuana will make it harder for teens to get it is total, absolute, uncut bullshiat.

Virtually everyone in middle/high school can find at least one or two people over 18 to buy them cigarettes, and there's no shortage of stories about 13-20 year olds drinking on a regular basis.

Nearly everyone I knew in high school had zero issues getting cigarettes and only mild difficulty finding alcohol. EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND, someone threw a party or had a gathering and there was plenty of alcohol (usually beer) available.

To say that marijuana will be just as accessible is actually just fine by me as I see it as a healthier alternative to alcohol, and far, far less addicting then cigarettes.

But to pretend that alcohol and cigarettes are actually hard to get, that marijuana is easier to get, and that legalizing marijuana will actually make it harder to get is the kind of stuff people say when they're baked out of their mind.
 
2012-08-27 09:57:36 PM  

divgradcurl: and who the fark would want this? i take it you don't enjoy any coffee or other kinds of stimulants to get you going in the morning? humans have an innate desire to change their perceptions of the world. this occurs whether you have access to drugs or not. why do you think choking/oxygen deprivation games are so popular amongst kids?


Caffeine doesn't drop average IQ by 8 points, or any points. If it did, I wouldn't use it, neither would a lot of people.

It's not exactly surprising that heavy weed use lowers IQ. Anyone spending time with heavy weed users has had abundant anecdotal evidence of their diminished mental ability. This study just confirms these long-time suspicions.

Weed users should be aware of the risks and not live in denial. There are provable disease risks from smoking weed, not as bad as cigarettes, but not nothing either. My doctor says that all of the young lung cancer patients he sees are heavy weed users, anecdotal, I know. These IQ risks are now provable and are not a small issue. Actions have consequences, wow, surprise.

/Don't smoke, but am absolutely in favor of totally legalized weed. Not de-criminalized, LEGALIZED, heavily taxed, and after this study, definitely age-restricted.
 
2012-08-27 10:01:06 PM  

lewismarktwo: Why do people believe this tripe? Weed is just as labor intensive as tobacco and booze. Actually, making moonshine is way easier and faster.



Ive personally made wine and grown plenty of weed, and never found either very labor intensive at all. Cannabis growth is more about paying attention than doing any actual labor, unless you're inexperienced, or running some kind of indoor state of the art hydro system and light rigs. Otherwise you put a plant in the ground and provide it with water and nutrients at the appropriate times, clone at the appropriate time, and pay your neighbors minimum wage to do all that trimming at the end.

I looked into it and beer brewing seems 10x as confusing, or at least has more potential for failure. You can do so many things wrong when trying to brew beer. Cannabis is a hardy ass weed that grows itself as long as you dont fakr it all up.
 
2012-08-27 10:01:28 PM  

Three-Fifty: In addition to making them, their clothes, their rooms, etc. smell like dog shiat?? Sucks for them.


I think you may have dog shiat on your upper lip...man.
 
2012-08-27 10:05:42 PM  
I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Can you repeat that?
 
2012-08-27 10:09:03 PM  

nmemkha: Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?

Yes I do. Do you see people selling booze and cigarettes on the street?



Look at it this way...how much do you think the government will sell pot for? (any medicinal guys want to enlighten us as to how much the prescription stuff runs?) Cheaper than a drug dealer can grow it in his basement? Cheaper than a kid can raise a pot plant in his room? How much actual processing is involved in taking pot from a plant to a sell-able product?

Cigarettes in NYC are $10.00+ a pack...how many folks actually buy their cigarettes in NYC?
 
2012-08-27 10:10:13 PM  

divgradcurl: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: divgradcurl: RandomRandom: Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.


and who the fark would want this? i take it you don't enjoy any coffee or other kinds of stimulants to get you going in the morning? humans have an innate desire to change their perceptions of the world. this occurs whether you have access to drugs or not. why do you think choking/oxygen deprivation games are so popular amongst kids?

In the fitness/gym world, we have something called "bro science." This seems like "stoner science."

heh. i would never take anything anybody says about science in places like /fit/ or misc seriously, however, you would be partially correct that this is sort of "stoner reasoning" i read this argument in either "from chocolate to morphine" or the "the natural mind." both books by a alternative medicine doctor named andrew weil. the argument seemed convincing and has stayed with when thinking about how we handle different substances and how they affect our minds/perceptions.


Yeah, I get it. I definitely have done enough "perception altering." In fact, I've done so much that I actually am planning a long stretch of stone sobriety and I'm actually very excited about it.
 
2012-08-27 10:13:17 PM  

nmemkha: The point is, my smelly hippie friend, that legalization will bring in Big Business(tm) and that will lead to lobbying that will lead to the opening of legal channels and harsh crackdowns on illegal ones. Sure Big Tobacco will try and sell their processed poison, but I suspect mom-pot shops will open everywhere as entrepreneurs cater to a boutique market.


You're wrong, but for the wrong reasons. They wouldn't need to crack down on small producers, they would just price them out of the market.

If weed were produced by Big Tobacco, their pricing would absolutely destroy the existing producers. Consider that tobacco cigarettes (pre-tax) cost only few cents to produce. A few years ago, it was under 3 cents per smoke.

Weed cigarettes would actually be cheaper to produce than finished cigarette tobacco. Sure, high-quality weed is cloned, but cigarette tobacco is packed with ingredients that are not tobacco, chocolate is a big one. These extra ingredients and processing required for most cigarette tobacco would not be necessary for weed cigarettes. This suggests that the production costs of industrially produced joints would be as low or lower than that of tobacco smokes.

At most, an industrially produced joint would probably cost a nickel to make. Add 2000% tax and it brings the price all the way up to $1. One dollar per joint for high quality, reliable, fresh, consistent, weed. Local weed vendors can compete against that? I don't think so.

Big Tobacco would DESTROY the illicit marketplace, overnight. The illicit market's problem is that secrecy costs, secrecy costs a lot. Illicit production of anything has massive overhead costs. Illicit farms, illicit farmers, illicit funding, illicit fertilizer, illicit workers, illicit payroll, illicit transportation, illicit sales force. People doing illicit work demand higher salaries. All that secrecy makes selling illicit products in a legal world completely unworkable.

When legalization happens, the current pot growers and sellers will be out of business overnight, forever.

/don't smoke, but am fully in favor of total legalization, not de-criminalization, legalization
 
2012-08-27 10:14:56 PM  

RandomRandom: IronJelly: My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

And you'd know this how?

An 8 point drop in IQ is not something an individual would often notice, but it's definitely something that would show up in large-scale tests. Heavy adolescent weed consumption probably didn't move you from average to retard. More likely, it just moved you from average to slightly less-average.

I get it, you like weed and are loathe to admit it has detrimental, permanent effects on your mental ability. Sucks, but sometimes the truth hurts. Weed isn't as harmful as alcohol, but it's not nearly as harmless as a stone sober existence.


I disagree, and this may come as a major shock to you. But I dont smoke pot, I dont even drink. I have at least at least a few times in my past, most people do. Frankly the stone cold sober portions of our society scare the ever loving farking shiat out of me. People who frankly have never done ANYTHING, not a drink not a smoke not a single puff, hell some havent ever or promise to never have a blow-job, ever. These people are farking frightening and are not to be trusted. Are you like that? Have you ever, promise to never do....anything impure? People like that, theres something seriously unnatural about them.
vananne.com
Forget bath salt abusers, farking purist will eat your liver and say grace before they do. Not right in the head.
 
2012-08-27 10:25:00 PM  

orclover: People who frankly have never done ANYTHING, not a drink not a smoke not a single puff, Are you like that? Have you ever, promise to never do....anything impure? People like that, theres something seriously unnatural about them.


You are absolutely not describing me. I used to smoke, used to drink frequently.

I just don't feel I need it any longer, especially alcohol. I greatly prefer not feeling like a turd in the morning to any benefit alcohol provides the night before, though I still have a beer with friends from time to time.

Bottom line, I'm over it and don't miss it, not even a little.

/As I said above, I'm fully in favor of total legalization, though I'm completely against decriminalization. Decriminalization supports drug kingpins, legalization puts the kingpins out of business.
 
2012-08-27 10:28:16 PM  
StuffAnAll sounds like a new fark drug.
 
2012-08-27 10:30:02 PM  

D_Evans45: lewismarktwo: Why do people believe this tripe? Weed is just as labor intensive as tobacco and booze. Actually, making moonshine is way easier and faster.


Ive personally made wine and grown plenty of weed, and never found either very labor intensive at all. Cannabis growth is more about paying attention than doing any actual labor, unless you're inexperienced, or running some kind of indoor state of the art hydro system and light rigs. Otherwise you put a plant in the ground and provide it with water and nutrients at the appropriate times, clone at the appropriate time, and pay your neighbors minimum wage to do all that trimming at the end.

I looked into it and beer brewing seems 10x as confusing, or at least has more potential for failure. You can do so many things wrong when trying to brew beer. Cannabis is a hardy ass weed that grows itself as long as you dont fakr it all up.


I said 'just as' labor intensive. Beer is a pain in the dick to get right, but moonshine is as easy as boiling water.

As for paying your neighbors to trim it... why would you need to do that if it's so easy and fast?

/wished I liked moonshine..
 
2012-08-27 10:32:15 PM  

radarlove: IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.

You're not.

I get terrible insomnia/headaches and frequently have trouble in verbal conversations because I have a very, VERY active brain. Thoughts are complex and race a mile a minute and are usually very loud, making it nearly impossible to do things that normal people take for granted, like relaxing or meditating or committing to moments and experiences. It's like having a thousand voices shouting about a thousand different things in unison, and trying to pick one out of the din.

About the only thing that slows my thought processes down to a normal, human rate is cannabis (especially strong indicas). Without it, I can't pick a single thought or idea out of the rushing torrent. But with it, I can pick an idea or topic and stick with it. With it, I can calm my mind enough that I can actually enjoy life around me instead of constantly analyzing it. With it, I can have blissful, undisturbed sleep.

I really need to get my NM MMJ card soon. I'm getting exhausted again and the headaches are getting worse.


Same here, although getting blitzed does help.

Of course, then there's the hangover...

/would like MMJ card as well
 
2012-08-27 10:32:26 PM  

RandomRandom: nmemkha: The point is, my smelly hippie friend, that legalization will bring in Big Business(tm) and that will lead to lobbying that will lead to the opening of legal channels and harsh crackdowns on illegal ones. Sure Big Tobacco will try and sell their processed poison, but I suspect mom-pot shops will open everywhere as entrepreneurs cater to a boutique market.

You're wrong, but for the wrong reasons. They wouldn't need to crack down on small producers, they would just price them out of the market.

If weed were produced by Big Tobacco, their pricing would absolutely destroy the existing producers. Consider that tobacco cigarettes (pre-tax) cost only few cents to produce. A few years ago, it was under 3 cents per smoke.

Weed cigarettes would actually be cheaper to produce than finished cigarette tobacco. Sure, high-quality weed is cloned, but cigarette tobacco is packed with ingredients that are not tobacco, chocolate is a big one. These extra ingredients and processing required for most cigarette tobacco would not be necessary for weed cigarettes. This suggests that the production costs of industrially produced joints would be as low or lower than that of tobacco smokes.

At most, an industrially produced joint would probably cost a nickel to make. Add 2000% tax and it brings the price all the way up to $1. One dollar per joint for high quality, reliable, fresh, consistent, weed. Local weed vendors can compete against that? I don't think so.

Big Tobacco would DESTROY the illicit marketplace, overnight. The illicit market's problem is that secrecy costs, secrecy costs a lot. Illicit production of anything has massive overhead costs. Illicit farms, illicit farmers, illicit funding, illicit fertilizer, illicit workers, illicit payroll, illicit transportation, illicit sales force. People doing illicit work demand higher salaries. All that secrecy makes selling illicit products in a legal world completely unworkable.

When legalization happens, the ...


Ummm...couple of nice points...BUT...can you get arrested for driving under the influence of cigarettes? I imagine the taxes alone on pot cigarettes sets up a price that could be beaten illicitly. There would have to be whole infrastructure, or greatly enhanced the current infrastructure, just to enforce this aspect. Several states have agencies to enforce liquor and cigarettes, and adding pot just adds that much more. Driving Under the Influence takes a serious jump. Not only will drunk drivers be on the road, but stoned drivers as well, or even both.
 
2012-08-27 10:38:47 PM  

Umfufu: RandomRandom: nmemkha: ...

When legalization happens, the ...

Ummm...couple of nice points...BUT...can you get arrested for driving under the influence of cigarettes? I imagine the taxes alone on pot cigarettes sets up a price that could be beaten illicitly. There would have to be whole infrastructure, or greatly enhanced the current infrastructure, just to enforce this aspect. Several states have agencies to enforce liquor and cigarettes, and adding pot just adds that much more. Driving Under the Influence takes a serious jump. Not only will drunk drivers be on the road, but stoned drivers as well, or even both.


I hate to break it to you but...
 
2012-08-27 10:39:10 PM  

Umfufu: Look at it this way...how much do you think the government will sell pot for? (any medicinal guys want to enlighten us as to how much the prescription stuff runs?) Cheaper than a drug dealer can grow it in his basement? Cheaper than a kid can raise a pot plant in his room? How much actual processing is involved in taking pot from a plant to a sell-able product? Cigarettes in NYC are $10.00+ a pack...how many folks actually buy their cigarettes in NYC?



Weed prices in the shops are roughly the same prices on the street, though many places are more expensive. Apparently people are willing to pay more at a medical dispensary then on the corner for Paco Drugdealer's illicit wares. Id even say, fairly recently, dispensary pricing has forced street dealers to lower prices to compete. I can get an ounce of tasty weed on the street for $200, while I'll likely be paying $300+ at the shop.

However, weed shop culture has evolved so much that I go to the weed shop to socialize now, as much as fulfill my cannabis needs. I go on my lunch break with my buddies almost every day now, talk with the beautiful budtenders (weed shops make a point of hiring attractive young ladies), hit the blunt they're passing around in the shop, and choose an edible to blast off with later. Good music and atmosphere, attractive young people, it's a scene you'll find in a drug dealer's garage/basement. Ill pay a little more at my shop for this experience.
 
2012-08-27 10:40:54 PM  

lewismarktwo: As for paying your neighbors to trim it... why would you need to do that if it's so easy and fast?



You've never had a big outdoor harvest, have you? A few hours of that shiat is enough to give fit young men carpal tunnel symptoms.
 
2012-08-27 10:42:13 PM  
lh6.ggpht.com
 
2012-08-27 10:42:55 PM  

D_Evans45: lewismarktwo: As for paying your neighbors to trim it... why would you need to do that if it's so easy and fast?


You've never had a big outdoor harvest, have you? A few hours of that shiat is enough to give fit young men carpal tunnel symptoms.


Ok, now I'm confused. I haven't even smoked in a couple weeks. I thought my IQ was supposed to go back up! I have a feeling we're in agreement and just don't know it.
 
2012-08-27 10:46:48 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time ... /i>

Why is there not a "The Collected Wisdom of Pocket Ninja" book?

If there is ever an audio book, it would have to be read by Jeremy Irons.

 
2012-08-27 10:47:46 PM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


You and your common sense better be careful, that sorta thinking can get you in a lot of trouble.
 
2012-08-27 10:48:38 PM  
Your opinion man, that's just well, like.
 
2012-08-27 10:49:28 PM  
The first 5 or so results for "trimming sucks" on google are cannabis related, and echo my sentiments about trimming buds, and seem to end with "get some buddies to help."

"My fingers hurt. I've been trimming for 5 hours off and on and still yet to finish one plant. Wet weight all trimmed up so far is over 6oz so i'm expecting at least to zips from this one, i think i will do just one more tonight, ...but fark that right now.:

"It makes my fingers cramp and sore plus its just a pain to do it."

"...bottom line..trimming (sux) is my least favorite part of growing. I used to trim like I was entering a poodle in an akc dog show..now, unless I am really (rarely) in the mood I don't bother trimming the sweetleaf from buds..I don't think the sweetleaf declines enough to warrant the time and effort trimming....opinions?"
 
2012-08-27 10:51:14 PM  

Indubitably: I just had a brilliant idea.

Just brilliant.

All religios/lawbies must imbibe LSD/psilocybin immediately.

Politics in twenty four hours: priceless.

;)


I've said that for years.
 
2012-08-27 10:51:17 PM  

lewismarktwo: I have a feeling we're in agreement and just don't know it.



More than likely, my apologies if so. I had a bhang bar and a couple kinds of wax earlier.
 
2012-08-27 10:54:00 PM  

jackiepaper: Point02GPA: Well. that helps explain President Obama.

the guy who graduated summa from Harvard Law? Ya, that devil weed sure did a number on him


You may have mis-read my post. I was trying to give "The Pres" props for knowing when to quit being "Berry", and having the drive to become "The son of his father's dreams".

Sorry I wasn't more clear on my props.

/larry
 
2012-08-27 10:55:54 PM  

Umfufu: Ummm...couple of nice points...BUT...can you get arrested for driving under the influence of cigarettes? I imagine the taxes alone on pot cigarettes sets up a price that could be beaten illicitly. There would have to be whole infrastructure, or greatly enhanced the current infrastructure, just to enforce this aspect. Several states have agencies to enforce liquor and cigarettes, and adding pot just adds that much more. Driving Under the Influence takes a serious jump. Not only will drunk drivers be on the road, but stoned drivers as well, or even both.


No, the taxes would not make illicit products competitive.

Based on current cigarette costs, the actual cost of an industrially produced joint would probably be at most - 5 cents each. Five Cents, and that's on the high end. My guess it that it would probably only cost half of that, 2.5 cents - or less. Weed is easy to grow, cheap to grow and much easier and cheaper to process than cigarette tobacco.

So the tobacco company mark up their product 100%, to 5 cents per joint. even at a farking massive 2000% tax rate you'd get a One Dollar joint. Add in state and local taxes, move it up to 4000% tax - 4000 PERCENT - and you get a $2 joint. Not just a $2 joint, but a high quality, reliable, fresh, additive free, consistent, joint. Each brand, exactly the same, every single time.

The illicit vendors would be destroyed.

As for DUI, there are already tests to determine levels of drug impairment. OTC drug abuse is far worse problem in that regard. Breathalyzers aren't perfect. Were weed legalized, you can be sure the market would respond with an abundance of new testing apparatus for law enforcement.
 
2012-08-27 10:56:17 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


===========

Kim Deal is a Fark member?
 
2012-08-27 10:57:17 PM  
www.420magazine.com
 
2012-08-27 10:57:42 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


That was farkin brilliant :)
 
2012-08-27 11:01:08 PM  
Why do people [esp. non smokers] assume all pot smokers just sit and watch shiatty tv?

Myself, I enjoy a good hike, a stimulating documentary, sex with my gf, painting, reading books, going dancing, playing with my 3yo niece and reading to her, teaching her about the world and nature....not watching the idiot box....and I love all of these even more on weed.
Not to mention it works far better for my slipped discs in the lower back than vicodin [seriously fark that shiat].

I was recently hit by a truck while walking...shattered my tibula and fibula. As soon as I got home from a week of intensive care and physical therapy, I stopped taking the Vic's and smoked my weed. Recovered in slightly under the expected 3months...I'm up walking, working, hiking, etc again...doc was amazed...and maybe the fact that I work out daily and take a 5 mile walk each day helped speed the recovery up..but I honestly believe the mj was beneficial as well...my pysch evaluation came back with flying colors..so smoking weed for the past decade didn't seem to affect THAT either...
 
2012-08-27 11:01:29 PM  
Will read the thread after I post...

A bit scary for me as I started tokin' at ten...When I started college at thirty eight I took many tests including IQ tests tested out at 124, I graduated with a 3.999 GPA.

To think I could have been at 132.. I'm rather ambivalent about this. It could have helped me, yet I adored college, studied hard, did well, had/have a small core of real friends. I love what I do, things are hard and getting harder. But I've done without more things most people could imagine and have survived and thrived in spite of adversity.

I would probably be in a better spot financially but you play the hand your dealt I guess.
 
2012-08-27 11:04:02 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Studies like this just piss me off, mainly because I'm looking in the freezer for some ice pops and the box is in there with a tear in its side from that time i went to grab it by the lip and it tore because the bag of frozen chicken legs was sort of on top of it even though I couldn't tell at first and so when i pulled the bag it tore and a couple of ice pops fell out on the floor and my dog got two of them and ran outside. She doesn't have a dog door but she tore the screen and my friend judy said I'd better fix it because, man, squirrels. Can you imagine how a squirrel would be in a house? Running around all frantic and hopping on stuff. I heard once that squirrels can make noise but I've never heard one do anything but scamper, and that's not really noise if you think about that's just their claws on tree bark. Squirrel claw. Squirrel Claw. Squirrelclaw. That would make an awesome name for a superhero or something, maybe not a superhero but like a super power, like the guy can make his hand take the shape of a squirrel's claw and scamper up a building. Like spiderman, but not a spider, you know? Man, I want an ice pop.


SQUIRRELCLAW!! YEAA!!

That would make a fantastic meme.

You're good man. Real good.
 
2012-08-27 11:09:15 PM  
Have to check with Jim Anchower to see what his thoughts on this study are.
 
2012-08-27 11:09:52 PM  

OK So Amuse Me: I took many tests including IQ tests tested out at 124, To think I could have been at 132


If you're so smart, why haven't you realized that an average 8 point drop for a person of average IQ - 100, is a rather more dramatic decrease that you may have suffered?

For the average person, it could bring the potential for a substantial decrease in mental acuity.  Even worse, for those innately at the limits of the competency barrier, this could result in a debilitating IQ loss.
 
2012-08-27 11:13:04 PM  

sparkeyjames: StuffAnAll sounds like a new fark drug.


Stuffinole
Stephinaliumide bicitrate

"That's too bad that that happened, but maybe we can chill out later. I'll be here, just enjoying this. Hope it all goes alright. I'm here for ya, man. We got nachos."

 
2012-08-27 11:15:48 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm totally pro-legalization, but the responses from stoners to these studies is always hilarious. "Hey man, that's like, so not true. Pot cures my fibromyalgia and increases my brain function, dude."

Just be honest pot-heads, being high feels awesome. That's all the justification you need. Stop trying to rationalize that it's just miracle drug, it makes you look like a kinda dumb burn-out.


It does feel awesome, it can either give me energy and motivation to deal with life, housework, etc, or help me relax so i can sleep at night. If that doesn't make it a wonderdrug, what does?
 
2012-08-27 11:18:50 PM  

apres_ski_god: Have to check with Jim Anchower to see what his thoughts on this study are.


For some unknown reason, when I read Anchower, my eyes tear up.
 
2012-08-27 11:20:26 PM  

The Ghost of Tom Ace: So people lose a few IQ points in exchange for being able to cope with life's lemons and enjoying life's lemonade just that much more?

I'd say it's a fair trade. Besides, people should have the right to do whatever the fark they want.


I smoke weed to help keep me from burning life's house down. With the lemons.
 
2012-08-27 11:22:47 PM  

mekki: FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.

Yeah, because underaged kids never drink or smoke or find ways to get alcohol and cigarettes. This will decrease drug use for sure.


They steal liquor and beer from their parents' refrigerators and cabinets, and pay older siblings and classmates who are legal to buy them smokes. Plus, there are any number of parents who gladly allow their kids to drink and smoke because thank god they're not doing drugs.

Legalize pot, and you'll see a drop in pot smoking but I suspect a great increase in booze and alcohol.
 
2012-08-27 11:26:10 PM  

dopekitty74: If that doesn't make it a wonderdrug, what does?


It enlarges the size of your breasts, I hear.*I can't say I've seen visual evidence of this myself ;-)

*IF you're a guy
 
2012-08-27 11:36:16 PM  

IronJelly: Seriously?

I use pot for this exact effect, and I have been since I discovered it at 14 years old. Smoking is the ONLY way I have found to get my brain to shut up. It cures my migraines faster than Excedrin, and it relaxes my mind enough that I can actually fall asleep or watch non intellectual TV (for example, I can't stand Family Guy unless I'm baked). My IQ might maybe be lower while I am under the influence, but it certainly doesn't stay that way.

I can't possibly be the only one to use it for this purpose. I thought for like 6 years after I started that this was what it's for.


Def helped me get a good night of sleep. brain dont stop either..
 
2012-08-27 11:40:35 PM  

UsikFark: dopekitty74: If that doesn't make it a wonderdrug, what does?

It enlarges the size of your breasts, I hear.*I can't say I've seen visual evidence of this myself ;-)

*IF you're a guy


It may also work on women :)

/started toking at 15, 40F
 
2012-08-27 11:48:24 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Just be honest pot-heads, being high feels awesome. That's all the justification you need. Stop trying to rationalize that it's just miracle drug, it makes you look like a kinda dumb burn-out.


Exactly.

And when real science proves real consequences, don't deny them, just weigh the benefits versus the costs.

Is pot worth being a little dumber? Is heavy put use worth a substantial increase in respiratory diseases? An occasional smoke (once weekly or less) doesn't seem to carry substantial respiratory risks, but heavy smoking? Yeah, it does seem to. Some studies have indicated a substantial risk of lung cancer among heavy smokers. Doctors I know say the only young lung cancer patients they see are heavy pot smokers. (yeah, completely anecdotal, but still, CANCER, ugh).
 
2012-08-27 11:48:25 PM  

dopekitty74: UsikFark: dopekitty74: If that doesn't make it a wonderdrug, what does?

It enlarges the size of your breasts, I hear.*I can't say I've seen visual evidence of this myself ;-)

*IF you're a guy

It may also work on women :)

/started toking at 15, 40F


*bows to queen of breasts.*
 
2012-08-27 11:53:20 PM  
Thought I would have found this in a Ric Romero thread.

Repetitive cognitive disruptions over time = dysfunction. Wow, I'm impressed. Go researchers! After that topic I would really like a political poll number or a Florida hurricane update.

Blagahhh!
 
2012-08-27 11:56:09 PM  
Suggestion: Take ANY mind altering substance -- legal, illegal -- do similar tests and see how many will do brain damage, among other things.

Especially in the 'legal' area.

Booze tears your arss up, but few biatch about that.

Take a group of kids from a heavily industrialized city and compare their tests with those from one with few industries. You'll find brain and organ damage in higher amounts among those who live in the heavily industrialized city -- along with traces of a LOT of heavy metals not found in the other group.
 
2012-08-28 12:15:05 AM  
Dude, it's not the 70s, man. Why don't you study the lasting effects of smoking crack or huffing daily? You might as well have studied the effects of wearing your spats too tight.
 
2012-08-28 12:24:20 AM  
Boudica's War Tampon~

Some recent studies suggest "Drive-Bys" may decrease IQ's.
 
2012-08-28 12:36:04 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: If you want to trade a few IQ points and other mental faculties for relief of migraines and other maladies, go ahead



Excercise sharpens the mind. How many IQ points are lost to sitting on your ass and watching stupid tv for hours?

Fish is brain food. How many IQ points are lost to not eating fish every day?

Jigsaw puzzles and card games such as poker may make the mind more alert. How many IQ points are lost to not doing jigsaw puzzles and playing cards daily?

Cruciferous vegetables have been proven to prevent cancer. How many deaths are due to not eating broccoli daily?

There oughta be a law to enforce all of these activities to enforce a 8 point gain...or else!
 
2012-08-28 12:37:44 AM  
FTFA: The decline in IQ among persistent cannabis users could not be explained by alcohol or other drug use or by having less education, Moffitt said.

Citation needed!
 
2012-08-28 12:39:30 AM  

Point02GPA: Boudica's War Tampon~

Some recent studies suggest "Drive-Bys" may decrease IQ's.


See? Modern statistics.

Thanks again for the free subscription. Very nice of you.
 
2012-08-28 12:51:15 AM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


I am sorry, but this just plain makes way too much sense and is way too straight forward... Change everything about this plan and then get back to us...
 
2012-08-28 12:52:40 AM  

RandomRandom: An occasional smoke (once weekly or less) doesn't seem to carry substantial respiratory risks


In fact, recent studies have shown that occasional pot use INCREASES respiratory function, and that social tokers breathe better and suffer from fewer respiratory problems than not only tobacco smokers, but even people who have never had a puff of anything at all.

/the more you know
 
2012-08-28 12:52:41 AM  

Indubitably: /i could teach japanese to a monkey if i knew how to relate the material

*symbol-symbol, symbol*


www.uniquely-portland-oregon.com
 
2012-08-28 12:54:54 AM  

WeenerGord: Indubitably: /i could teach japanese to a monkey if i knew how to relate the material

*symbol-symbol, symbol*

[www.uniquely-portland-oregon.com image 400x269]


That little dude looks soooooooo baked right now...
 
2012-08-28 12:59:56 AM  

Rik01: Suggestion: Take ANY mind altering substance -- legal, illegal -- do similar tests and see how many will do brain damage, among other things.

Especially in the 'legal' area.

Booze tears your arss up, but few biatch about that.



Perhaps you should cut down on butt-chugging.
 
2012-08-28 01:00:08 AM  
Science Daily is to science as Fox News is to news.
 
2012-08-28 01:01:23 AM  

jvl: Oznog: And you'll, like, marvel at the stars and shiat. STARS, man... we're all, like, MADE of them. hehehehe.... whoa.

When discussing Carl Sagan's use of marijuana, it is important to point out that you are not Carl Farking Sagan and should not attempt to draw conclusions from his use.



Maybe he's not a heavily dependent user since childhood from New Zealand, either.

You could lose 8 points of IQ just from having left school, and been stuck in a boring, dead end job for years, too.
 
2012-08-28 01:30:19 AM  

Rik01: Booze tears your arss up, but few biatch about that.


Few except the thousands of studies that show that frequent alcohol abuse is bad for your body and your social life. The difference is that alcoholics and most harder drug addicts will readily admit they know what they're doing isn't great for their long term prognosis.
 
2012-08-28 02:04:59 AM  
Remember kids, poke smot every day.
 
2012-08-28 02:19:24 AM  

radarlove: In fact, recent studies have shown that occasional pot use INCREASES respiratory function, and that social tokers breathe better and suffer from fewer respiratory problems than not only tobacco smokers, but even people who have never had a puff of anything at all.


True, there have been studies that indicated increased respiratory function for "occasional" users. They suspect it may have to do with frequent deep breathing involved in smoking up. This suggests that deep breathing exercises could accomplish the same result, that would be an interesting study.

Here's the key though, the studies defined "occasional use" as smoking once a week or less.

I'd bet that a lot of people who consider themselves to be "occasional users", are in fact heavy users. If that once-a-week smoke is a 4 hours of bong hits, yeah, that's not "occasional". Only smoking on weekends isn't occasional either, not by the definition of those studies.

Most smokers I know definitely qualify as medium to heavy users. Heavy users risk a variety of respiratory diseases, up to and including Lung Cancer.
 
2012-08-28 02:30:18 AM  

RandomRandom: radarlove: In fact, recent studies have shown that occasional pot use INCREASES respiratory function, and that social tokers breathe better and suffer from fewer respiratory problems than not only tobacco smokers, but even people who have never had a puff of anything at all.

True, there have been studies that indicated increased respiratory function for "occasional" users. They suspect it may have to do with frequent deep breathing involved in smoking up. This suggests that deep breathing exercises could accomplish the same result, that would be an interesting study.

Here's the key though, the studies defined "occasional use" as smoking once a week or less.

I'd bet that a lot of people who consider themselves to be "occasional users", are in fact heavy users. If that once-a-week smoke is a 4 hours of bong hits, yeah, that's not "occasional". Only smoking on weekends isn't occasional either, not by the definition of those studies.

Most smokers I know definitely qualify as medium to heavy users. Heavy users risk a variety of respiratory diseases, up to and including Lung Cancer.


You know, if they burn it with fire, which you are under no obligation to do. Vapes pay for themselves because they're so efficient I don't know why 'heavy' users wouldn't buy one.
 
2012-08-28 02:36:24 AM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


You sir are a moron. Kids get alcohol easier than just about anything else besides cigarettes. You at least have to know someone to get pot.

Locally our prosecutor says Heroin is the biggest factor in crime. Can you really tell me that legalizing heroin will mean the addicts have access to it without needing to commit crimes? Their habits are more than their federal checks can support by a long run. They will continue to use crime to obtain it.

The same goes for kids and Pot, if its legal then all you need is someone over 18 to buy it for you, which is a damn sight easier than finding someone who will sell a kid marijuana. And no i dont care that you know fifty people you can get a joint from in five minutes....all that establishes is that you are a stain on the civic underoos.

In any case drugs are in their heyday in this century. As soon as there is such a thing as nano-drones there will be trillions of them that have a hunger for the various drug plants. Then you can kiss em goodbye.

RandomRandom: radarlove: In fact, recent studies have shown that occasional pot use INCREASES respiratory function, and that social tokers breathe better and suffer from fewer respiratory problems than not only tobacco smokers, but even people who have never had a puff of anything at all.

True, there have been studies that indicated increased respiratory function for "occasional" users. They suspect it may have to do with frequent deep breathing involved in smoking up. This suggests that deep breathing exercises could accomplish the same result, that would be an interesting study.

Here's the key though, the studies defined "occasional use" as smoking once a week or less.

I'd bet that a lot of people who consider themselves to be "occasional users", are in fact heavy users. If that once-a-week smoke is a 4 hours of bong hits, yeah, that's not "occasional". Only smoking on weekends isn't occasional either, not by the definition of those studies.

Most smokers I know definitely qualify as medium to heavy users. Heavy users risk a variety of respiratory diseases, up to and including Lung Cancer.


You cant teach pot heads. They are convinced what they are doing is not wrong. And yes they are hurting their lungs, there is no such thing as a beneficial particulate introduced to the lungs in the same way as there are very very few harmless plant derived compounds that can be safely introduced to the blood stream. Most of the things we call plant derived medicines are actually toxins created by plants to keep us from eating them. They can be damn useful toxins, but I dont think MJ is on the list of things that are safe to convert to burned particulate and then introduce to your blood stream via inhaled particulates. Doing that with any whole natural material is probably a VERY bad idea from the standpoint of lung function and brain development.
 
2012-08-28 02:40:16 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?

Especially for actual adults?

FTA: "Study subjects who didn't take up pot until they were adults with fully-formed brains did not show similar mental declines."

Another article mentioned that study subjects who started smoking pot during college and later quit had their mental faculties return to nearly their previous levels after a year.

Recent research suggests that the brain is not fully developed until the mid-20s.

If you want to trade a few IQ points and other mental faculties for relief of migraines and other maladies, go ahead. I understand perfectly.

But don't deny that a developing brain is more vulnerable to chemical damage than a mature, stable one. You'll end up sounding like creationists.



Yeah, pretty much this.
Neurological impairment due to pot use has been shown to be relatively short term and reversible in adults, but I wouldn't doubt at all that the highly plastic brain of a teenager is susceptible to permanent damage from regularly futzing around with neurotransmitter-like cannabinoids.


FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


I'm not sure how much this would actually help, but it's readily available anyway so it certainly couldn't hurt.
While I don't smoke myself, I've always been for legalization. It isn't particularly harmful stuff, and there are so many benefits to legalization that it seems silly not to.
 
2012-08-28 02:47:03 AM  

lewismarktwo:

You know, if they burn it with fire, which you are under no obligation to do. Vapes pay for themselves because they're so efficient I don't know why 'heavy' users wouldn't buy one.


LOVE my vaporizer. Best money we ever spent. Uses less herb, too. And your vaped weed can be recycled. I'd much rather vape than smoke any day. VaporBrothers makes a damn fine box n' whip style one. Highly recommended. I even have an 18mm ground glass adapter for it that fits into my many bongs. So awesome! =)

RandomRandom: radarlove: In fact, recent studies have shown that occasional pot use INCREASES respiratory function, and that social tokers breathe better and suffer from fewer respiratory problems than not only tobacco smokers, but even people who have never had a puff of anything at all.

True, there have been studies that indicated increased respiratory function for "occasional" users. They suspect it may have to do with frequent deep breathing involved in smoking up. This suggests that deep breathing exercises could accomplish the same result, that would be an interesting study.

Here's the key though, the studies defined "occasional use" as smoking once a week or less.

I'd bet that a lot of people who consider themselves to be "occasional users", are in fact heavy users. If that once-a-week smoke is a 4 hours of bong hits, yeah, that's not "occasional". Only smoking on weekends isn't occasional either, not by the definition of those studies.

Most smokers I know definitely qualify as medium to heavy users. Heavy users risk a variety of respiratory diseases, up to and including Lung Cancer.


Yeah, I said occasional. I was very clear.

Though personally, I don't even mind the risks associated with heavy use. VERY heavy use.
 
2012-08-28 02:58:47 AM  
img834.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-28 03:07:50 AM  

archichris: Blah, blah, drugs are bad, mmkay?


You must be a blast at parties. Keep crusading against that devil weed, you totally don't sound like a raving religious fanatic. You might as well wrap yourself up in that security blanket of smugness and self-righteousness. Clinging onto it with that white-knuckled death grip must be exhausting.
 
2012-08-28 03:22:00 AM  

Boudica's War Tampon: Dude, it's not the 70s, man. Why don't you study the lasting effects of smoking crack or huffing daily? You might as well have studied the effects of wearing your spats too tight.


Bunyons and gout?
 
2012-08-28 04:19:06 AM  
ONE WORD Piracetam (pops)
 
2012-08-28 04:24:26 AM  
Don't condescend me, man.

media.entertainment.sky.com
 
2012-08-28 05:29:05 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: sample bias


Says the individual complaining about a large scale scientific study.
 
2012-08-28 05:33:13 AM  

Trashy_McKraut:
You must be a blast at parties. Keep crusading against that devil weed, you totally don't sound like a raving religious fanatic. You might as well wrap yourself up in that security blanket of smugness and self-righteousness. Clinging onto it with that white-knuckled death grip must be exhausting.


Have you ever heard pot advocates go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how it's harmless, helps them relax, doesn't affect their mental processes (yeah, and most drunks think they're witty), isn't addictive and how their lives revolve around getting and smoking the stuff? The words "crusading", "raving", "fanatic", "security blanket", "smugness" and "self-righteousness" could hardly be more appropriately used.
 
2012-08-28 05:34:36 AM  

D_Evans45: However, weed shop culture has evolved so much that I go to the weed shop to socialize now, as much as fulfill my cannabis needs. I go on my lunch break with my buddies almost every day now, talk with the beautiful budtenders (weed shops make a point of hiring attractive young ladies), hit the blunt they're passing around in the shop, and choose an edible to blast off with later. Good music and atmosphere, attractive young people, it's a scene you'll find in a drug dealer's garage/basement. Ill pay a little more at my shop for this experience.


Interesting. How do you feel about the legalisation-will-reduce-use and legalisation-will-reduce-prices arguments?
 
2012-08-28 08:02:50 AM  

fragMasterFlash: Remember kids, poke smot every day.


===================

I have for years. No evidence that it brained my damage.
 
2012-08-28 08:27:40 AM  

FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.


exactly. when i was in school it was much harder to get beer than pot. in fact if i needed pot now i'd probably have to ask a highschool kid.

beer reaks havoc on your developing brain as well...
 
2012-08-28 09:51:51 AM  
Alternate Headline: Study shows teenage pot use increases likelihood of rally spectating later in life.
 
2012-08-28 10:04:48 AM  

orbister: Trashy_McKraut:
You must be a blast at parties. Keep crusading against that devil weed, you totally don't sound like a raving religious fanatic. You might as well wrap yourself up in that security blanket of smugness and self-righteousness. Clinging onto it with that white-knuckled death grip must be exhausting.

Have you ever heard pot advocates go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how it's harmless, helps them relax, doesn't affect their mental processes (yeah, and most drunks think they're witty), isn't addictive and how their lives revolve around getting and smoking the stuff? The words "crusading", "raving", "fanatic", "security blanket", "smugness" and "self-righteousness" could hardly be more appropriately used.


Have you ever heard anti-pot advocates go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how it's harmful, increases your heart rate, reduces your mental processes (yeah, like it's their business what my IQ is), is an addictive substance, and how their lives revolve around telling others what they should or shouldn't do? The words "crusading," "raving", "fanatic", 'wet noodle", "smug" and "self-righteousness" could hardly be more appropriately used.
 
2012-08-28 10:27:53 AM  

IronJelly: Have you ever heard anti-pot advocates go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how it's harmful, increases your heart rate, reduces your mental processes (yeah, like it's their business what my IQ is), is an addictive substance, and how their lives revolve around telling others what they should or shouldn't do?


And those oncologists. Have you heard how they go on about carcinogens as if they were a bad thing? Interfering do-gooders. 

Incidentally, why has the greenlit thread on the original PNAS article disappeared?
 
2012-08-28 10:35:10 AM  

namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?


Doesn't matter. Its entirely plausible that the type of person that persistently uses pot from their teen years and doesn't quit might be a different demographic from other people, with the pot usage only being a symptom. In other words, if we're looking at losers, that they smoke pot might not have much to do with the loser-ness.

But I can give you a long term study! I started smoking pot in my 20's and did so for about 8 years, then quit for 20 years and started again last year to help with arthritis and back/foot pain. Looking at my social security earnings chart, it goes up like a rocket until I started smoking pot, flattens out for the entire time I used it, then takes off like a rocket again. So apparently it knocks your motivation out and prevents you from doing well at work. I'm imagining it would have an enhanced effect on a kid still in school, since all I had to do half the time at work was close the door and take a nap for two hours.

Since picking it back up again, I see another drop in motivation and accomplishment, but I'm old and retired now so who gives a %$@# ?

What I have found interesting is when fully stoned being able to vividly remember odds and ends from the last time I smoked pot, when I haven't had those recollections for decades. Seems like it re-opened an area of memory that's been pretty dormant for a while. And my recollection of random facts also improved dramatically. While stuff tended to fall out of my head eventually, if I don't think about it and just blurt out the first thing I think of when asked a question, its usually correct.

Medically, at a good dosage level its quite nice on inflammation and joint pain. I've had a few high dose edibles that made me so numb I think you could have performed surgery on me. It lowers my blood pressure a ridiculous amount. Between being able to get off my BP meds and being able to do stuff without pain, I managed to lose 70lbs. Yard work is way more fun when stoned, just leave the stuff with motors and sharp blades on the shelf...

We do have a laugh about the war on drugs and the evilness of marijuana. Clearly I'm a danger to the nation while sitting on my couch eating chips and watching old movies.

Just...don't mix pot and booze. Aggressive and stupid is a bad way to go through life, son.
 
2012-08-28 10:36:39 AM  
Oh and I forgot (what a surprise) but I sported a 155 IQ as a teenager, pre-pot. 157 and 158 after 8 years of regular use. So apparently this study started off with "How do we make pot look bad by making shiat up?" and went from there. IQ is apparently, in a sample size of one, not affected.
 
2012-08-28 10:53:06 AM  

Asa Phelps: namegoeshere: - The persistent, dependent use of marijuana before age 18 has been shown to cause lasting harm to a person's intelligence, attention and memory, according to an international research team.

Among a long-range study cohort of more than 1,000 New Zealanders, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years afterward showed an average decline in IQ of 8 points when their age 13 and age 38 IQ tests were compared.


So we're talking about the heaviest, long-term users here. Anyone got a study about the effects of recreational use?

It's also been established that depression makes you stupid.

Can't imagine why someone would become a habitual, dependent user of a numbing agent.


I agree, they aren't taking the top of the class and forcing them to smoke pot all day. They are talking 'stoners' that are smoking conically. At that point I don't know how much a drop in education can be attributed to pot use over simple atrophy.*
That said, there was a fraternity at an engineering college (similar to MIT) that was known as the pot heads, and they were one of the smarter groups of people. I'd like to see a study on that group of people, though again you don't have any control so it wouldn't be any more conclusive than the study from TFA.
www.phoenixrealm.com
 
2012-08-28 10:59:32 AM  

orbister: Trashy_McKraut:
You must be a blast at parties. Keep crusading against that devil weed, you totally don't sound like a raving religious fanatic. You might as well wrap yourself up in that security blanket of smugness and self-righteousness. Clinging onto it with that white-knuckled death grip must be exhausting.

Have you ever heard pot advocates go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how it's harmless, helps them relax, doesn't affect their mental processes (yeah, and most drunks think they're witty), isn't addictive and how their lives revolve around getting and smoking the stuff? The words "crusading", "raving", "fanatic", "security blanket", "smugness" and "self-righteousness" could hardly be more appropriately used.


As these threads detail from people talking about their own habits, it's a lifestyle for many of these people, and since it's their lifestyle they can't get away from it because changing lifestyles is farking hard.
 
2012-08-28 11:03:30 AM  

archichris: As soon as there is such a thing as nano-drones there will be trillions of them that have a hunger for the various drug plants. Then you can kiss em goodbye.


LOL bet you can kiss your flesh goodbye too when your nano-drones starts eating it off your bones.
 
2012-08-28 11:09:11 AM  

archichris: Locally our prosecutor says Heroin is the biggest factor in crime. Can you really tell me that legalizing heroin will mean the addicts have access to it without needing to commit crimes? Their habits are more than their federal checks can support by a long run. They will continue to use crime to obtain it.



Not if you legalize it and give it to them free under Medicare, which would be far, far cheaper than incarcerating them for decades. You really are stupid not to have seen this. Or maybe you are just angry at the sativa.
 
2012-08-28 11:09:23 AM  
Marijuana = bad

The End
 
2012-08-28 12:27:42 PM  

bhcompy: As these threads detail from people talking about their own habits, it's a lifestyle for many of these people, and since it's their lifestyle they can't get away from it because changing lifestyles is farking hard they are addicted.


De-euphemismificated that for you.
 
2012-08-28 01:39:52 PM  

Umfufu: FloydA: What's ironic is that these data will probably be used to try to support a "tough on drugs" stance, when in fact, the most effective way to reduce teenagers' access to pot would be to legalize it and treat it like alcohol or tobacco- no ID, no sale. The street corner pot dealers don't ask for ID, but shop clerks do. Legalize it for sale to adults and the profit will drop out of the bottom, so the criminal gangs won't sell it anymore. Immediately, teenagers' access to pot would be dramatically diminished.

Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?



Go away? No. Shrink in numbers? Definitely. Drug dealers engage in drug dealing because it is profitable. They aren't doing it just for fun, they are doing it because it makes money. If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.

This is basically the same problem that we dealt with during Prohibition. People are going to try to get high, no matter what laws are in place. When alcohol was illegal, production, distribution, and sale didn't stop, it just fell into the hands of criminal gangs. As soon as the Volstead Act was repealed, there was no more profit to be made running speakeasies and manufacturing bathtub gin. The customers preferred the legal bars and liquor stores because (A) they got a better quality product, (B) they were not going to be arrested for failure to pay tax on their booze, and (C) if a legal liquor store rips you off or their booze is poison, you can go to the cops. If a gang rips you off or poisons you, you're screwed.

The same thing will happen with pot. People will buy it from the legal distributors, and that will make it less profitable for the criminal gangs, and if there is one thing we know about crime gangs, they don't bother engaging in crimes that don't make a profit.

Personally, I don't smoke it because I don't really like it, but prohibition never works.
 
2012-08-28 01:49:25 PM  
I don't deny there are side-effects, but 8 points seems very specific for an IQ test...or more to the point, for such a specific conclusion to be drawn from said test(s).
Did the article mention a margin of error? I can't remember.

/no short term memory
 
2012-08-28 02:22:33 PM  
FACT: IQ tests not taken prior the ages of 13 tend to favor the test take 3-4 points, FACT: IQ tests taken after the afterthe age of 24 tend to dissfavor the test take 3-4 points.

Logical conclusion Cannabis thus has no real long term affect on IQ

Rational assumption: the people doing the research are competent.
Rational addendum: Thus the research people are aware of the previously mentioned age bias in IQ test.

Logical conclusion: The research people are purposefully using a know test bias to push an agenda and should be sent to the board for investigation and punishment.
 
2012-08-28 02:38:25 PM  
sigh i always ind the threads related to my profession way after they are no longer relevant..
 
2012-08-28 03:34:22 PM  

RandomRandom: My doctor says that all of the young lung cancer patients he sees are heavy weed users, anecdotal, I know.


You should probably get a different doctor, because he's obviously delusional. Kaiser-Permanente did a massive study and found no lung cancer risk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9328194

I'm dubious about this NZ study, for a number of reasons. For one, excessive use of any drug seems to indicate some sort of pathology in the subject. Many heavy adolescent users of drugs are attempting to self-medicate. An underlying mental illness can have a very serious effect on cognition.
 
2012-08-28 04:13:50 PM  

knobmaker: You should probably get a different doctor, because he's obviously delusional. Kaiser-Permanente did a massive study and found no lung cancer risk.


My doc's just fine, and there is real science backing his anecdotal findings.

There are studies which have shown definite lung cancer risk among heavy pot smokers. One study showed a 20x increase over non-smokers.
 
2012-08-28 04:17:51 PM  

RandomRandom: knobmaker: You should probably get a different doctor, because he's obviously delusional. Kaiser-Permanente did a massive study and found no lung cancer risk.

My doc's just fine, and there is real science backing his anecdotal findings.

There are studies which have shown definite lung cancer risk among heavy pot smokers. One study showed a 20x increase over non-smokers.


Lol, no. Did your 'doctor' happen to mention they all smoked a pack of tobacco cigs a day too?
 
2012-08-28 04:18:19 PM  

Daeva: Logical conclusion: The research people are purposefully using a know test bias to push an agenda and should be sent to the board for investigation and punishment.


Or those doing the study corrected for that aberrance and you're engaging in wish-fulfillment.
 
2012-08-28 04:29:22 PM  

lewismarktwo: Lol, no. Did your 'doctor' happen to mention they all smoked a pack of tobacco cigs a day too?


Notice that I said YOUNG, heavy pot smokers. Young cigarette smokers rarely get lung cancer, it just doesn't present that early. Most of the young lung cancer patients he sees have been heavy pot smokers. As I said, anecdotal, but still, CANCER, ugh.

If you want to pick and choose which studies to believe, that's your call. The truth is that some studies indicate a real lung cancer risk, other do not. Not all the metrics in those studies were identical. If you want to look at it with rose colored glasses, one could say the jury is still out regarding a pot / lung cancer risk. A more reasonable conclusion would be that once-a-week users are probably not causing a lot of cancer risk, while the heaviest of pot smokers are probably putting themselves at serious risk of lung cancer.

While there is some small doubt about cancer risk, there is NO serious debate about heavy pot smoking causing severe respiratory disease. It isn't hard to see why. Regularly, and deeply breathing heavy particulates into your lungs isn't their preferred method of operation.
 
2012-08-28 04:40:13 PM  

RandomRandom: lewismarktwo: Lol, no. Did your 'doctor' happen to mention they all smoked a pack of tobacco cigs a day too?

Notice that I said YOUNG, heavy pot smokers. Young cigarette smokers rarely get lung cancer, it just doesn't present that early. Most of the young lung cancer patients he sees have been heavy pot smokers. As I said, anecdotal, but still, CANCER, ugh.

If you want to pick and choose which studies to believe, that's your call. The truth is that some studies indicate a real lung cancer risk, other do not. Not all the metrics in those studies were identical. If you want to look at it with rose colored glasses, one could say the jury is still out regarding a pot / lung cancer risk. A more reasonable conclusion would be that once-a-week users are probably not causing a lot of cancer risk, while the heaviest of pot smokers are probably putting themselves at serious risk of lung cancer.

While there is some small doubt about cancer risk, there is NO serious debate about heavy pot smoking causing severe respiratory disease. It isn't hard to see why. Regularly, and deeply breathing heavy particulates into your lungs isn't their preferred method of operation.


Why would weed present so soon when the proven carcinogen tobacco takes longer? Weed limits blood flow to capillaries starves the cancer out it.

Or are you trolling by talking about an oncologist who specializes in adolescent lung cancer and his patients are using cannabis to alleviate their nausea and pain?

Also, good jorb completely avoiding the use of edibles and vaporizers.
 
2012-08-28 04:44:44 PM  

Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?


Yes, Really!

The corner dealers would be out of business overnight if pot were legalized. OVERNIGHT.

I explained why above. http://www.fark.com/comments/7291635/78991353#c78991353

TL:DR, Big Tobacco could probably make a very good profit on FIVE CENT joints. (they sell Cigarettes for less) Mark it up with 4000% tax and this fresh, high quality, consistent, safe(er) joint would cost consumers $2.

Street corner dealers can't compete with that, neither can the medical dispensaries or the illicit growers who provide their stock. The illicit pot business would die overnight. The authorities wouldn't have to lift a finger, the market would do the job. 

How many speakeasies survived prohibition? Next to none. They either went legal (so were no longer a speak-easy) or they went under. Most of those currently in the weed business can't go legal. A few small growers would go legal and market their specialty products, legally, but most would go under. The street corner dealer would be out of the weed business, forever.
 
2012-08-28 04:45:36 PM  

RandomRandom: Daeva: Logical conclusion: The research people are purposefully using a know test bias to push an agenda and should be sent to the board for investigation and punishment.

Or those doing the study corrected for that aberrance and you're engaging in wish-fulfillment.


well.... i honestly neither considered, nor looked into that fact, so point you maybe because i am still not going to, which... is sort of a point to you.
 
2012-08-28 04:51:01 PM  

lewismarktwo: Or are you trolling by talking about an oncologist who specializes in adolescent lung cancer and his patients are using cannabis to alleviate their nausea and pain?

Also, good jorb completely avoiding the use of edibles and vaporizers.


No, the doc who told me this is a GP. He sees everybody, middle-school to rest home. He has told me that his existing youth patents who are diagonalized with lung cancer are invariably heavy pot smokers. He is not anti-weed, I know he used to smoke himself and is in favor of legalization.

I haven't seen a lot of studies discussing edibles, but I do know that most users don't regularly use edibles because it wastes too much pot. Slower high, less duration requiring more weed. It's more expensive and requires more work. Because of this, edibles and vaporizer users make up just a tiny percentage of pot users which is probably why there are so few studies.

/I'm completely in favor of total legalization, but I also think users should be fully aware of the risks. Head in the sand is no way to go through life son.
 
2012-08-28 04:53:27 PM  

RandomRandom: Umfufu: Ummm...does anyone think the corner dealers are going to go away if pot is legalized? Really?

Really?

Yes, Really!

The corner dealers would be out of business overnight if pot were legalized. OVERNIGHT.

I explained why above. http://www.fark.com/comments/7291635/78991353#c78991353

TL:DR, Big Tobacco could probably make a very good profit on FIVE CENT joints. (they sell Cigarettes for less) Mark it up with 4000% tax and this fresh, high quality, consistent, safe(er) joint would cost consumers $2.

Street corner dealers can't compete with that, neither can the medical dispensaries or the illicit growers who provide their stock. The illicit pot business would die overnight. The authorities wouldn't have to lift a finger, the market would do the job. 

How many speakeasies survived prohibition? Next to none. They either went legal (so were no longer a speak-easy) or they went under. Most of those currently in the weed business can't go legal. A few small growers would go legal and market their specialty products, legally, but most would go under. The street corner dealer would be out of the weed business, forever.


wtf are you talking about? why just last week i bought a gallon of methanol moonshine from a guy who then riddled our car with bullets from his tommy gun as we drove off
 
2012-08-28 04:56:11 PM  

RandomRandom: No, the doc who told me this is a GP. He sees everybody, middle-school to rest home. He has told me that his existing youth patents who are diagonalized with lung cancer are invariably heavy pot smokers. He is not anti-weed, I know he used to smoke himself and is in favor of legalization.


i don't believe that.

the studies don't really support it - at least not for lung cancer. what they do support is actually that people who smoke marijuana and tobacco are at a greater risk for developing cancer-like cells than users who smoke just one or the other.
 
2012-08-28 05:02:58 PM  

Pathman: i don't believe that.

the studies don't really support it - at least not for lung cancer. what they do support is actually that people who smoke marijuana and tobacco are at a greater risk for developing cancer-like cells than users who smoke just one or the other.


That's not true. There definitely are some studies which have shown a lung cancer risk. One study in particular displayed a 20x increase in lung cancer risk among heavy pot (not cigarette & pot) smokers.

You're right that there are other studies which have not shown this risk, though from what I read, these various studies haven't used the same metrics regarding definitions of use frequency, so they're tedious to compare. It would take one of those meta-studies to do a proper alignment.

Based on the available science, my guess is that heavy pot smokers are very likely putting themselves at increased risk of lung cancer. Once-a-week users? Not so much.
 
2012-08-28 05:35:21 PM  

FloydA: If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.


Yes, because corner dealers will be assiduous about paying state and federal taxes on it. That's why something like 80% of all (perfectly legal) hand-rolling tobacco in the UK is sold on the black market. Oh, wait. Oops.
 
2012-08-28 05:36:47 PM  

Daeva: FACT: IQ tests not taken prior the ages of 13 tend to favor the test take 3-4 points, FACT: IQ tests taken after the afterthe age of 24 tend to dissfavor the test take 3-4 points.

Logical conclusion Cannabis thus has no real long term affect on IQ

Rational assumption: the people doing the research are competent.
Rational addendum: Thus the research people are aware of the previously mentioned age bias in IQ test.

Logical conclusion: The research people are purposefully using a know test bias to push an agenda and should be sent to the board for investigation and punishment. have already allowed for this effect.

 
2012-08-28 05:48:44 PM  

orbister: FloydA: If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.

Yes, because corner dealers will be assiduous about paying state and federal taxes on it. That's why something like 80% of all (perfectly legal) hand-rolling tobacco in the UK is sold on the black market. Oh, wait. Oops.


Excessive taxation is akin to outright banning in that regard. Shocker.
 
2012-08-28 05:55:15 PM  

RandomRandom: but I do know that most users don't regularly use edibles because it wastes too much pot. Slower high, less duration requiring more weed. It's more expensive and requires more work.


Wow, you officially have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now.

Speaking as a professional in the MMJ community, I can assure you that half of the sales in our store were of edibles. Edibles produce a SLIGHTLY slower onset (20 minutes instead of two minutes), the effects last MUCH longer and are more pronounced, and most edibles are made from trim and kief, not buds, so your "requires more weed" argument goes right out the window. Same goes for it being more "expensive" as you are using your plant's waste products to make it. And as for hard work: if you can operate a crockpot, you can make high quality edibles right in your own home, with no more fuss than preparing cookies or a delicious pesto.

And there are plenty of studies done on vaporization. All of them show that when done properly not only does vaporization pose ZERO health risks, it does wonders for the respiratory system and provides all of the anti-tumorial benefits of cannaboids with absolutely none of the carcinogens or particulate matter.

And if neither of those work for you, there are also THC pills, suppositories, and transdermal patches.

Do not speak about things that you do not know anything about with a tone of authority. It makes you look like a fool.

RandomRandom: but still, CANCER, ugh.


At this point in the conversation, I'm farking praying for terminal cancer.
 
2012-08-28 05:58:57 PM  

radarlove:
Wow, you officially have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now.

Speaking as a professional in the MMJ community, I can assure you that half of the sales in our store were of edibles. Edibles produce a SLIGHTLY slower onset (20 minutes instead of two minutes), the effects last MUCH longer and are more pronounced, and most edibles are made from trim and kief, not buds, so your "requires more weed" argument goes right out the window. Same goes for it being more "expensive" as you are using your plant's waste products to make it. And as for hard work: if you can operate a crockpot, you can make high quality edibles right in your own home, with no more fuss than preparing cookies or a delicious pesto.

And there are plenty of studies done on vaporization. All of them show that when done properly not only does vaporization pose ZERO health risks, it does wonders for the respiratory system and provides all of the anti-tumorial benefits of cannaboids with absolutely none of the carcinogens or particulate matter.

And if neither of those work for you, there are also THC pills, suppositories, and transdermal patches.

Do not speak about things that you do not know anything about with a tone of authority. It makes you look like a fool..



This. I can't get edibles where I am, but I've tried them, and it is as you say. it takes longer to come into effect, but lasts quite a bit longer, and is definitely a bit stronger.

//I hate being in a small town sometimes.
 
2012-08-28 06:52:59 PM  

radarlove: Wow, you officially have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now.


Speaking as a professional in the MMJ community, I can assure you that half of the sales in our store were of edibles.
And there are plenty of studies done on vaporization. All of them show that when done properly not only does vaporization pose ZERO health risks, it does wonders for the respiratory system and provides all of the anti-tumorial benefits of cannaboids with absolutely none of the carcinogens or particulate matte

Give me a break.

You're suggesting that vaporization and edibles are even slightly as pervasive as smoked weed? My wild assed guess would be that they maybe, maybe make up 1% of usage, and that's probably on the high side.

Clearly, you live in the in the land of pot dispensaries. Your land is not like the rest of our land. Most of the US does not live in California. Most of the US does not have access to pot dispensaries or their specialty products. The vast majority of the US population doesn't have easy access to edible product unless they make them themselves. And vaporizers, not exactly common off campus. Even on campus, smoking is the prevalent method. I know a lot of pot users, all of them smoke, a few vaporize, and only on rare occasion do they use edibles.

As for vaporization and edibles having zero health risks, uh, wrong, You're in the pot selling business and clearly too close to this issue to make a fair-minded evaluation The New Zealand study that precipitated this post didn't discriminate regarding method of use, yet it found an 8 point IQ drop across the board. FYI, that study included 98% of the population born in that town for an entire year. I very much doubt the IQ drop came from respiratory distress, that only leaves the chemical effects of the product as a causal agent. As you point out, those effects are similarly present in smoked, edible and vaporized products.

As I said, I'm 100% in favor of total legalization (not decriminalization). Users should be aware of the risks. Suggesting there are no risks, especially given that you're a seller, that's shameful. I'll be ecstatic the day legalization comes. Funny thing though, it will definitely put you out of a job.
 
2012-08-28 07:21:51 PM  
Science Daily is like the National Enquirer of "science news". Not a reputable news source at all, frankly I'm sick of it being linked to constantly on here. And the daily mail, too. Fark quality really has gone downhill recently...
 
2012-08-28 07:48:22 PM  

RandomRandom: Give me a break.


I was. I'm not going to be as nice this time around.

RandomRandom: My wild assed guess would be that they maybe, maybe make up 1% of usage, and that's probably on the high side.


At least now you're admitting to making wild-assed guesses instead of claiming to be an authority on the subject.

RandomRandom: Most of the US does not live in California. Most of the US does not have access to pot dispensaries or their specialty products.


You are correct about that for the time being, though 17 states (not including District of Columbia) already have MMJ laws and legal dispensaries and with another seven states voting on it this year, we will be at damn near fifty percent of the nation. Never been to California.

RandomRandom: The vast majority of the US population doesn't have easy access to edible product unless they make them themselves.


The vast majority of pot dealers have pot brownies for sale as well. As I said, edibles are made from the waste products of your plant, and incredibly easily at that. It is foolish to not use every part of said plant.

RandomRandom: And vaporizers, not exactly common off campus.


I wouldn't know, as I'm a bit too old at this point to be associating with college students outside of a business capacity. I will however tell you that every adult marijuana user I know owns a vaporizer. They are affordable, easy to use, and they make your product last longer, stretching out those pot-dollars. The world has moved on from combustion. Would you like to know how many of those people also use e-cigs?

RandomRandom: I know a lot of pot users, all of them smoke, a few vaporize, and only on rare occasion do they use edibles.


I know a lot more cannabis users than you. Many smoke on occasion. Most vaporize. Every one of them cooks their own edibles because it is SO DAMN EASY AND EFFECTIVE.

RandomRandom: You're in the pot selling business and clearly too close to this issue to make a fair-minded evaluation


Actually, I'm in the Medical Marijuana and Patient Advocacy businesses, and a good part of my job is staying on top of research and studies so that I can be sure that those people who come to me with cancer, multiple sclerosis, ALS, war-induced PTSD, and various autoimmune diseases get the maximum effect to treat their conditions without exacerbating them. I am responsible for the treatment progress of cannabis use for these people. They have placed their trust in me due to my diligence and expertise, and I take that very seriously.

RandomRandom: The New Zealand study that precipitated this post didn't discriminate regarding method of use, yet it found an 8 point IQ drop across the board.


No, it found an eight percent drop in teens. I do not sell cannabis to anyone under the age of 18, not only in accordance with state law but also in accordance with my own personal ethics. Children should not be using psychoactive substances of any type, in my opinion. That goes for not only marijuana, but cigarettes, alcohol, and caffeine as well. Childhood is supposed to be a time of growth, development, learning, and inspirational experiences. Children should not need the chemical crutches that adults do until infuriatingly ignorant people like you drive them to it later in life.

RandomRandom: Users should be aware of the risks.


I agree completely. I ensure that all of my clientele are well aware of the risks, and I get in writing that they will not operate a motor vehicle while under the influence of our products.

RandomRandom: Suggesting there are no risks, especially given that you're a seller, that's shameful.


Everything in life carries risks. Were I to claim otherwise, I would look as foolish as you do right now. What I said is that studies have shown that vaporization poses zero HEALTH risks.

RandomRandom: I'll be ecstatic the day legalization comes.


Me too. Our client base will explode, and I will finally be able to assist people without them going through government channels first.

RandomRandom: Funny thing though, it will definitely put you out of a job.


The legal sale of marijuana IS my job. I don't work out of some basement or on some streetcorner. I work in a retail setting. In a real storefront. In a commercial building. We pay our taxes. We follow employment laws and OSHA regulations. We abide by stricter state regulations than even casinos. We are a corporation within an industry. I regularly meet with state senators, attorneys, law enforcement agencies, and medical professionals in a business capacity. The National Geographic channel produced a critically acclaimed series in which one of our shops was featured prominently. We are serious business.

We are the existing commercial framework upon which legal marijuana sales will flourish.

Put us out of the job? Legal marijuana will bring our business to the masses.


I'm sorry that you felt the need to double down on the stupid. I don't like having to give intellectual smackdowns to people who don't know what they are talking about. Considering that your present foolishness has detracted from every other argument that you've made in this thread and destroyed your credibility, I highly suggest that you tuck tail and try to learn something from this experience. Don't ever again try to sound like an expert on things that you are completely uneducated on.
 
2012-08-28 08:25:41 PM  

orbister: FloydA: If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.

Yes, because corner dealers will be assiduous about paying state and federal taxes on it. That's why something like 80% of all (perfectly legal) hand-rolling tobacco in the UK is sold on the black market. Oh, wait. Oops.


that's another side of the same problem - that's nanny state silliness on the other level: still trying to regulate behaviour. they're doing it in new york too. and guess what - there is a huge and even violent tobacco black market.

in an elastic good it doesn't really matter who pays the tax - the burden is fairly equal on the consumer and the merchant. this becomes far less true as you move into inelastic goods - the burden shifts squarely onto the shoulders of the consumer. taxing the hell out of smokes on the hopes that people will smoke less is, in my opinion, far outside the scope of what government's role in our lives should be.
 
2012-08-28 08:27:26 PM  

lewismarktwo: orbister: FloydA: If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.

Yes, because corner dealers will be assiduous about paying state and federal taxes on it. That's why something like 80% of all (perfectly legal) hand-rolling tobacco in the UK is sold on the black market. Oh, wait. Oops.

Excessive taxation is akin to outright banning in that regard. Shocker.


exactly
 
2012-08-28 08:47:47 PM  

radarlove: Put us out of the job? Legal marijuana will bring our business to the masses.


You are completely delusional. That statement alone makes me question the credibility of everything else you've written. There is so much wrong with the rest of what you've written that I'm not going to bother to address each point. I will however address how wrong you are on the economics, I have very specific knowledge of this topic.

Have you ever researched the economics of Big Tobacco? I have.

The cost to produce a tobacco cigarette is pennies, PENNIES. The last analysis I saw measured the production cost at less than 3 cents per cigarette. Consider that the product used in cigarettes is highly processed and supplemented with expensive additives. Further, tobacco is no easier to grow than pot. Yes, high-quality pot is often cloned, but cigarette tobacco's extensive processing puts them at a no more than a cost equivalent. My guess has long been that the end production cost of industrially farmed pot would be substantially less than that of tobacco, but at worst it's equivalent.

Big Tobacco would eat your breakfast, lunch, and dinner. How? Were a legalization bill to reach the US Congress, big tobacco's lobbyists would write that bill. They would likely lobby for taxes to be scheduled as a percentage of wholesale cost. They would probably also lobby for very, very, very high taxes. I suspect they'd dangle the prospect of the huge tax revenues available were taxes to be set at 2000% to 4000%.

Their production cost per cigarette would be perhaps 3 cents, probably less, their wholesale price would be perhaps five cents. At a wholesale cost of five cents, their joints would cost one to two dollars. If your you dropped your prices to 50 cents per cigarette, the after tax cost would be ten to twenty dollars, per joint.

Can you sell joints for 5 cents, pre tax? Can your suppliers supply product at that price, pre tax? Of course not, only industrially scaled farms and industrially scaled production lines can reach those price points. You have access to neither. You have access to illicit farms, illicit product, illicit payrolls, illicit transportation. All of those illicit costs make your product completely unenviable in a legalized world. Even if you had access to legal farms, would they be scaled industrially? Not at first, not for awhile. What about mile-long cigarette factories capable of producing cigarettes for less than 3 cents? No, you wouldn't have access to that either.

Were Big Tobacco to start selling their product at Wal Mart and Costco for 1/20th to 1/40th your prices, could you continue to exist? Of course not.

You are a modern speak easy. Just as with the speakeasies of the twenties, most dispensaries would immediately go under. Some might try to rebrand themselves at "Coffee Houses", most would not, just as with speakeasies, the vast majority with very few exceptions would fail completely.
 
2012-08-28 09:46:12 PM  

RandomRandom: radarlove: Put us out of the job? Legal marijuana will bring our business to the masses.

You are completely delusional.


You just had to come back for more, didn't you? Foolish, foolish pride.

RandomRandom: I have very specific knowledge of this topic.


Please, do explain your qualifications. I'm curious, and I've already gone into detail on mine.

RandomRandom: Have you ever researched the economics of Big Tobacco?


Big Tobacco is not Big Cannabis. Tobacco growers and manufacturers are limited to one, maybe two dozen specific breeds of tobacco that they use in their products, each with different flavor profiles. There are over 14,000 different strains of cannabis, each with not only it's own unique flavor profile but it's own array of effects. Big Tobacco cannot simply produce one catch-all "cannabis cigarette" that does everything, because different people need different things. You wouldn't make an apple pie with Fiji apples, and you wouldn't treat stress with a high-strung sativa strain.

RandomRandom: Can you sell joints for 5 cents, pre tax?


Actually, we give them away free with purchase.

RandomRandom: Can your suppliers supply product at that price, pre tax?


State law says that we need to produce at least 75% of our product in-house. With the exception of edibles, we produce 100% of our product in-house.

RandomRandom: only industrially scaled farms


Which we own five of.

RandomRandom: and industrially scaled production lines


You have no idea how cannabis works...you seem to think that everybody out there purchases pre-rolled joints.

RandomRandom: You have access to illicit farms, illicit product, illicit payrolls, illicit transportation. All of those illicit costs make your product completely unenviable in a legalized world.


Again, you have no idea how this industry works. Every single thing we do, from every seed planted to every joint rolled, is monitored and tracked by the state. "From Seed to Sale," they call it. The system is set up that way, and it is a good system. Every year for every store we pay $10,000 in fees to the state for the privilege of being allowed to run our MMJ business. Not only do we pay our commercial taxes to the state and local communities, our employees all have their w4s and i9s and pay their taxes as well. Our transportation of material is far from illicit, as we have to file a manifest with all state law enforcement agencies any time we get on the road with product, detailing what we have, where we are taking it to and from, what we are driving, who is driving, and how long we will be on the road. The suppliers of our edibles are all subject to monthly inspections from the Department of Health, and as good business-owners we inspect their facilities ourselves at least twice yearly. We have very good relationships with all of our edibles suppliers.

RandomRandom: Even if you had access to legal farms, would they be scaled industrially?


We do, and they are. They are also under 24-hour state surveillance, in accordance with the law.

RandomRandom: What about mile-long cigarette factories capable of producing cigarettes for less than 3 cents?


Again, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that people buy joints. Practically nobody buys joints. That is why we give them away. Marijuana actually requires very little processing compared to tobacco.

RandomRandom: Were Big Tobacco to start selling their product at Wal Mart and Costco for 1/20th to 1/40th your prices, could you continue to exist? Of course not.


My tobacconist seems to do pretty well for himself.

RandomRandom: You are a modern speak easy. Just as with the speakeasies of the twenties, most dispensaries would immediately go under.


No, we are a legal commercial storefront with the infrastructure already in place to expand our business to meet demand. You seem to think that we're some kind of shady hole-in-the-wall operation that's ducking through the shadows to avoid the long arm of the law. We deal with the law and the politics of this industry every single day. I am speaking from experience here.

Your error here, besides your foolish pride that is making you want to "win" some argument instead of listening to and learning from someone with experience in this industry, is believing that the two industries are alike. I believe that you know how Big Tobacco works. But you have absolutely no idea how Big Cannabis does.

Fancy another go?
 
2012-08-28 09:54:01 PM  

RandomRandom: My doctor says that all of the young lung cancer patients he sees are heavy weed users


i bet all of the patients he sees that have been married for 50 years are losing their hair as well.
conclusion: marriage causes hair loss.
 
2012-08-28 10:03:49 PM  

RandomRandom: OK So Amuse Me: I took many tests including IQ tests tested out at 124, To think I could have been at 132

If you're so smart, why haven't you realized that an average 8 point drop for a person of average IQ - 100, is a rather more dramatic decrease that you may have suffered?

For the average person, it could bring the potential for a substantial decrease in mental acuity.  Even worse, for those innately at the limits of the competency barrier, this could result in a debilitating IQ loss.


Why do you just assume that I haven't? Believe me, with my upbringing I was more shocked to discover my IQ than you might believe. I knew I had common sense, street smarts and adaptability on my side, had to use those on a daily basis.

Perhaps there are some other factors involved also... If this test group is stationery enough to monitor for that prolonged a period that sort of suggests to me that they might have been a bunch of dead enders from the start.

Whereas I have traveled extensively, interacted with people from all over the world, had to adapt to various stressful and traumatic life changes and usually managed to land on my feet even though I twisted my ankle plenty of times.

I just know that this debate won't be decided on this one study, nor anytime in the near future.

Don't like cannabis?
Don't smoke it.
Also don't get migraines. (mine last on average, three debilitating days a go)
You might find weed helps kill it quicker.
 
2012-08-28 10:08:22 PM  

RandomRandom: Were Big Tobacco to start selling their product at Wal Mart and Costco for 1/20th to 1/40th your prices, could you continue to exist? Of course not.


You can buy cheap nasty coffee at a gas station, and yet somehow, Starbucks is booming.

Radar, don't waste your time on RanRan, he's obviously angry at the sativa and full of shiat. Good luck to you and your business and thanks for fighting the good fight.

I don't use any drugs, other than coffee, myself, but it is clear that marijuana is harmless, has health benefits, and may even be a cure for cancer, and it is also long past obvious that the drug war does far more harm than good.

Probably the only reason that marijuana is not yet legal is that the government fears being sued for wrongful incarceration by the millions of citizens harmed by the drug war.
 
2012-08-28 11:21:55 PM  

orbister: FloydA: If pot was legal for sale to people over 21, then it would be cheaper for people to buy it legally than to buy it on the black market, so fewer people would go to the corner dealers.

Yes, because corner dealers will be assiduous about paying state and federal taxes on it. That's why something like 80% of all (perfectly legal) hand-rolling tobacco in the UK is sold on the black market. Oh, wait. Oops.


I would like to respond to your points, but I really want to couch my reply in terms that are appropriate for my audience, so I have to ask you a few questions first. 1) Did your mother drink a lot when she was pregnant with you? 2) Are you the offspring of a brother/sister marriage? 3) Has the word "Thalidomide" been used a lot in your presence? 4) Are you currently being treated for an open head wound?

If you can reassure me on those four points, I will gladly explain why legitimate businessmen who pay taxes are less likely to be arrested and therefore more likely to make a profit than black marketeers. But you have to meet me half-way here. I'll answer your questions about my understanding of economics if you will answer my questions about your severe congenital and/or traumatic brain damage.

Fair?
 
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