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(CTNow)   Disney Princesses: Classic Fairy Tales Or Gender Stereotypes?   (ctnow.com) divider line 151
    More: Amusing, Disney Princess, gender stereotypes, Disney, George Takei, Sleeping Beauty, Aladdin, princess, Brothers Grimm  
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13561 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2012 at 3:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-27 02:50:06 PM
9 votes:

brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.


disney-blog.com

Nope.
2012-08-28 10:16:17 AM
7 votes:

bunner: The Whore Of Mensa: Feminists want all women to be fulfilled and supported and equal, no matter WHAT life they choose.

Men want that, too. It's called "crossing your fingers and doing your best." They don't really put a gender assignment to it because it seems a bit silly to define it what way. If one waits for somebody *else* to do all that for them, though, they may have missed "equality" when perusing the Websters. It's a crapshoot and men don't have as many "options" handed to them as women seem to think


Why does it come as a surprise to people that women want ... what men want?

There aren't two categories, "people" and "women" -- just one: "people." Some of those people are men. Some are women. Some are something else, if we want to go that route. But they're all people.

The problem with "crossing your fingers and doing your best" is that there have been numerous legal barriers, and are still numerous social barriers, to doing exactly that.

Things are, much legally, better than they used to be. I don't think the laws of the state of Pennsylvania forbid women to work in various jobs, such as welders, anymore, but there used to be a list of jobs I couldn't even apply for because I'm female. Yes, a printed list. I've read it. Women are allowed to have names now; if my mother had married today, she'd be Jane Smith, not just Mrs. John Smith. Home Depot got royally sued and will now hire women for any job they're qualified for, rather than telling a female applicant "we only hire women as cashiers, not for the floor" (and that in an era when most of the men working at Home Depot couldn't tell a nail from a screw from their own gluteus maximus). And girls are not prohibited from taking shop class (do schools even still have shop classes, with all those evil nasty saws and drills and things?) no matter how much they want to. Legally, it's better. There are few cases, and growing fewer, where the sex of a person determines their status under the law; it used to be many, even most. No matter what the fatuous twits getting their lace panties in a bunch over the etymology of a word might think, that's enormous progress.

Socially, it's slowly getting there. It isn't there yet. The fact that we're having this discussion at all shows some of the progress. To some extent within my lifetime, and certainly within my parents' lifetimes, there would be no point to it: equality wasn't even in the equation. For most people, talking about it would be like talking about a color nobody had ever seen. As people of my generation, the kind of people who were told by their company's home office that they would be fired if they didn't put the real (male) manager on the phone ... and they were the (newly hired) manager! ... grow old and die, and nobody has ever experienced genuine discrimination, the problem will be lesser still. But the problem hasn't gone away completely, not yet, and the reason is simple:

Folks who put everyone into two categories, "people" and "women".

Yes, there are people who think women shouldn't have equal rights just because we're women. And there are also people who think women should have special privileges just because we're women. They're both wrong. It's the same kind of thinking in two different wrappers. The same kind of wrong thinking. The same division of everyone into two categories: "people" and "women".

And for anyone who thinks "all women" this or "all men" that, let me remind you that we're talking about overlapping bell curves. For instance, on the average, men are stronger than women. Despite this, I can beat my brother-in-law arm wrestling, because we're on different spots on our respective bell curves. He is more different in height, weight, strength, etc., from some of his male family members than he is from me. Bell curves. I'm a bit above average on mine, and he's a bit below average on his. Remember that the average person has one ball and one tit and 1.7 kids. Averages are meaningless outside a statistical environment; when you're dealing actual real people, it's individuals that count.

I'm not "women"; I'm Worldwalker. That's all I've ever wanted to be: myself. Good at what I'm good at, bad at what I'm bad at, and defined by my interests and my abilities, not by my plumbing.
2012-08-27 12:54:04 PM
7 votes:
Are you kidding me?

Of course the Disney universe is based off of stereotyping.

I loooooooove Disney movies but there's some insane stuff in the films. Remember Beauty and the Beast? If you love your absuive boyfriend enough - you can turn your beast into a man, too. He locked her in a room, was physically aggressive, withheld meals, and threatened to murder her father unless she obeyed.
2012-08-27 06:29:05 PM
6 votes:
I'd be more upset with Reality TV then Disney.

These Disney movies are just simple cartoons.

How about the outrage at stupid arse reality shows like 16 and Pregnant, My Sweet 16, The Kardashians BS (whatever their shows are called), Jersey Shore, etc...

Those are "realistic" women setting (in my opinion) a VERY bad example. But stupid people want to be outraged by Disney.

Sweet Baby Jebuz.....
2012-08-27 05:11:55 PM
6 votes:
t0.gstatic.comwww.northarc.comswordofelysium.files.wordpress.comwww.weirdasianews.com

Go to Studio Ghibli for better-written female characters. Who do NOT set out as "marrying a prince" as their ultimate goal in life. "Getting the boy" is never the point of the plot.

Nor do they fit the mold for an Action Girl, although they do contain elements of it at times.

Action Girl is like Laura Croft, where they're just taking an action hero role and adapting it to a female character, and assuming that's somehow feminist. Often we get a Faux Action Girl who we're TOLD is "badass" through dialogue and other characters' reactions, but never actually kills anyone or does anything especially hardcore or morally questionable. Your standard fantasy female "warrior".

Reason #3 of #1000 why Ghibli is SO much better than Disney.
2012-08-27 03:52:04 PM
6 votes:
I'm pretty sure every Disney princess that ever was could beat the daylights out of the female leads from both Twilight and 50 Shades at the same time, standing on one high heel and singing a delightful song with a chorus of drunk hedgehogs.
2012-08-27 01:06:14 PM
6 votes:
They are stereotypes, subby, but they are the best kind of stereotype. They present us with an idealized template of something pristine and untarnished, a lingering reminder of a perfection and purity that, while impossible to experience, can serve as the stuff of dreams. My great fear is that someday there may be people -- cynical, jaded people, empty people with dark place holes where the souls should be -- who will attempt to pervert these shining examples of femininity, who will twist their innocence and goodness into the most vile, sick, degrading type of "internet porn," which some reports say is proliferating with disturbing rapidity in the internet's darker corners. I hope it never comes to that.
2012-08-27 01:00:58 PM
6 votes:
I don't think the men fare all that better either.

Jacked up, physically abusive, narcissistic douchebag:
images.zap2it.com

Possessive, over-protective tyrant:
t1.gstatic.com

Self-entitled, self-centered, lazy hipster:
media.giantbomb.com

Power-hungry, self-hating, perverted religious fanatic.
images2.fanpop.com

These idiots:
reocities.com

Granted, some of those are villains. But their traits are typically masculine.
2012-08-27 04:57:00 PM
5 votes:
My sister is a nice, normal housewife.

Her and her husband both worked until they could afford a house and then she quit her job to stay home with the kids, who are quite well adjusted, and she now does child care for a woman near her home and has for years.

She's bright, honest, kind, can stomp my ass at chess and can take the balls off a gnat with a semi-automatic pistol at about 30 yards.

I know, a she's supposed to be a traitor to her gender or the "movement", but, see what she did was - and this is important - she did as she f*cking well pleased and pursued the life she wanted with the person she loves. And if that isn't feminism, y'all have lost the plot. She also managed to do this after sitting through many Walt Disney cartoons. I suppose the trick is to not be so pigsh*t thick that you allow animated films to dictate your world view.
2012-08-27 03:16:45 PM
5 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

[disney-blog.com image 550x302]

Nope.


Wasn't Sleeping Beauty's mom still alive too? The whole kingdom was just put to sleep wasn't it?
2012-08-27 02:13:23 PM
5 votes:

brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.


I have stopped going to Disney movies for that very reason. I'm just tired of the characters I identify most with being killed off every damn time. My daughter knows how I feel about this and told me I had to see Brave. Being turned into a bear is definitely a step above dying in a dramatically relevant fashion. And - as a metaphor for going through menopause - it's hard to argue with.
2012-08-27 01:10:28 PM
5 votes:

SphericalTime: However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.


And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

But, yeah, Brave was definitely a departure from the Disney formula and more relatable to a LOT of kids. "See, Mom's really just looking out for you and does love you. Please don't turn her into a bear."
2012-08-27 01:04:42 PM
5 votes:
This just in cartoons tend use broad stereotyped characterizations in much the same way that pantomimes and puppet shows have done for centuries. Film at 11
2012-08-27 12:49:43 PM
5 votes:
They've been mostly gender stereotypes (and I'm kind of surprised that the author of article is just realizing that). Disney found a formula and bought into it wholeheartedly: take a classic fairy tale and make the central focus a love story (if it wasn't already). And, with that formula, the princesses were mostly objects to be rescued.

However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.
2012-08-27 06:21:22 PM
4 votes:
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Since we're doing non-Disney princesses too, I figured Celestia was pretty obligatory. And she has Disney-like trappings she's very un-Disney in many ways...she's one of the most powerful beings in her world, the head of state, hads no male counterpart or love interest, and is wise and learned and accomplished...and she's not even human so the beauty standard doesn't really apply.
2012-08-27 05:06:01 PM
4 votes:

HalEmmerich: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

Fark Peter Jackson.

/I was going to suggest Eowyn out of Tolkien if you're looking for a female role model, but I guess outside the 'I am no man' bit she's no better, what with the whole 'Aragorn doesn't like me so I want to go die in battle' business..or was that part more Jackson nonsense?
//I have some rereading to do.StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghostshis fellow rangers and the freed people from the coastal cities in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.

Eowyn's big moment was all farked up because they couldn't just stick with the order of events from the books. And hell, other than the fact it's someone flying the banner of the king that shows up she doesn't even really get outshone, killing the witch king basically broke the back of the army, it was largely cleanup work after that.

/my memory of the books may be a bit fuzzy and muddled by the movies
//I think I'm due for a re-reading


In the parts of Tolkein that never made it into the published trilogy, there's a whole backstory about Eowyn and Eomer and why she was so distraught. Turns out the brother and sister were the children of Theoden's sister and a warrior who died young; Eowyn passionately loved her cousin, Theoden's son, who had been killed at the Battle of the Fords of Isen...so she latched onto Aragorn as the next best thing. It also explains why she turned to Faramir later--he was much closer to her cousin, personality-wise.

As for why she killed the Witch-King, there had been a prophecy ages before that he would not die "by the hand of man," so it was very important that she ride secretly into battle. She had gone to protect the only thing she had left, her adoptive father, and was the only one not being driven by the known prophecies that everyone else was following.

All these things a LoTR nerd has to know...
2012-08-27 04:15:52 PM
4 votes:

CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]


This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.
2012-08-27 04:10:44 PM
4 votes:
Classic fairy tales ARE gender stereotypes, in case nobody ever noticed before.
2012-08-27 04:09:26 PM
4 votes:
Well I for one would appreciate more realistic kids movies where the characters look like regular people and are focused on for their intelligence, wit and abilities.
I grew up on all that Disney princess crap and felt completely inferior as a tomgirl stuck in a boyish body with buck teeth and bad skin. I could get caught up in the dream of finding Mr. Wonderful one day only to have reality set in and realize that was for the petite pretty girls, not for a homely kid like me. Imagination and fantasy is fine but making kids feel like they will never measure up is just not cool. I would have been so much better off with movies where every girl didn't look beyond perfect and whose happy ending didn't always include Mr. Wonderful coming to "rescue" her. I also think boys deserve the same.
2012-08-27 03:57:39 PM
4 votes:
It's not really fair to call Brave a Disney flick. It's Pixar. Pixar has the stones to tell Disney to piss off and GTFO their writing, and the industry clout to just up and walk if Disney doesn't listen. Heck, they did that, and were wildly succesful on their own.

Tangled was a marginal step forward (Princess' mother still alive), but it still suffers a TON from "princess needs a man to accomplish anything". And he's no better; the one saving grace is that he's not attractive AND good-hearted AND wealthy, just two of the three. A marginal step up from Aladdin who was the same two, but faked the third to try and get the girl.


Seriously, don't point at Brave and say "Disney's getting better!" That was all Pixar. Pixar's never had that issue.
2012-08-27 03:52:57 PM
4 votes:
Better than the guys version.

1) be rich and good looking
2) be rich and good looking
3) be rich and good looking cursed to be ugly until good looking again
4) be rich and good looking
5) pretend to be rich and good looking
6) be rich and good looking

Quick, name the movies!
2012-08-28 01:11:16 AM
3 votes:

Dhusk: Since we're doing non-Disney princesses too, I figured Celestia was pretty obligatory. And she has Disney-like trappings she's very un-Disney in many ways...she's one of the most powerful beings in her world, the head of state, hads no male counterpart or love interest, and is wise and learned and accomplished...and she's not even human so the beauty standard doesn't really apply.


Any of the main characters are worthy role models- two (Rarity and Applejack) are successful small business people, two (Pinkie and RBD) are dedicated employees, one (Twilight) is a diligent student, and the last a trustworthy public servant (Fluttershy). All do their jobs of their own free will, choose what they love, do it exceedingly well, and enjoy it.

One of the things I notice is how girls are never taught to embrace their jobs - they "have" to do them. Either to provide for others or themselves, but never because they care, even if it is something uninspiring. It's part of the old thing - men have careers, women have jobs. Women are expected to do their jobs, but the jobs are not central to them and they can leave them anytime, to have a baby or something. The old joke about women have lots of life choices related to marriage and work; men go to work, or penitentiary. Not so for the Mane 6, all of them love their jobs. And while some are more concerned with partners then others, they all treat their jobs as something central to them.

Once again, proving the brilliance of Lauren Faust. She took pastel colored ponies (themselves a Freudian symbol of girls looking for stable masculine images) and made them a reasonably positive third-wave feminist icons.
2012-08-27 08:27:14 PM
3 votes:
A Disney Princess must satisfy the following requirements:
1. Be a princess
2. Be in a Disney movie

Fact: Disney is the US distributor for Princess Mononoke
Assertion: Princess Mononoke is a Disney movie. Says so right at the start

Fact: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a princess. Says so right in the movie title.

Conclusion: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a Disney Princess.

images.paraorkut.com
This is San. She's just fished a bullet from her mother's shoulder.

With her teeth.

San does not hide from her adversary in the forest with seven men of subaverage height and questionable motives. Sanwill use the forest to mount a guerilla campaign to kill any of her adversary's retainers who venture out of the safety of the stronghold.

San does not suffer the abuses of petty step-siblings. Her siblings are two meter tall white wolves. They do what San says. Or else.

San does not judge her worth based on her marriageability, political connections or her relative attractiveness. San judges her worth based on her body count.

San does not wait passively for her prince to save her. San infiltrates a heavily armed compound and attacks her adversary at close range with a knife.

San will not alter who she is for her man. San would rather returned to her devastated homeland and attempt to rebuild than forget who she is and follow him as an obedient wife.

San could take all the other Disney princesses herself. At once. Including Jasmine's tiger.

San. The Princess Disney doesn't want to talk about.
2012-08-27 06:51:28 PM
3 votes:
Wake me up when womynists feminists I-hate-my-vagina-ists start talking to real women about how life actually is instead of their make-believe world ruled by the Phallocracy with its Cock-Man Oppressors.
2012-08-27 06:20:07 PM
3 votes:

bunner: My sister is a nice, normal housewife.

Her and her husband both worked until they could afford a house and then she quit her job to stay home with the kids, who are quite well adjusted, and she now does child care for a woman near her home and has for years.

She's bright, honest, kind, can stomp my ass at chess and can take the balls off a gnat with a semi-automatic pistol at about 30 yards.

I know, a she's supposed to be a traitor to her gender or the "movement", but, see what she did was - and this is important - she did as she f*cking well pleased and pursued the life she wanted with the person she loves. And if that isn't feminism, y'all have lost the plot. She also managed to do this after sitting through many Walt Disney cartoons. I suppose the trick is to not be so pigsh*t thick that you allow animated films to dictate your world view.


The entire point of feminism is making sure women have all the same choices and opportunities men have. Your sister is a great example of feminism in action because she was given the choice to work or to be a stay at home mom. Several male Farkers are stay at home dads because their wives make more than they did, and it made sense economically. 50 (or even 30) years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. Hell, when my parents bought their first house in 1970, the bank refused to use my mom's income because she might get pregnant and lose her job.

Feminism is about choice.
2012-08-27 05:45:59 PM
3 votes:
Imagine that 100+yr old stories don't meat up to 21st century standards.
2012-08-27 04:19:27 PM
3 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com
2012-08-27 04:11:14 PM
3 votes:
Belle was independent, smart, and liked to read books.

The other listed princesses in that article sucked.
2012-08-27 04:06:55 PM
3 votes:
They should rename Beauty and the Beast "Disney presents: Stockholm Syndrome"
2012-08-27 04:04:54 PM
3 votes:

glass_ibis: brigid_fitch: ThatGuyGreg: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

[disney-blog.com image 550x302]

Nope.

Which Disney movie is that? I must have missed one.

Tangled


Tiana from "Princess and the Frog" and Mulan both have their mothers still, too, if not already mentioned.
2012-08-27 03:59:27 PM
3 votes:
Fark Disney.

3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-08-27 03:55:11 PM
3 votes:

fireclown: miss diminutive: I don't think the men fare all that better either.

Thanks for pointing that out. People tend to forget that young guys are affected by the stereotyping as well.


According to Disney, to get a girl you need to be rich, handsome, and charming. You don't even need a name.
2012-08-27 03:17:49 PM
3 votes:
Then there's the original Rapunzel story, where she gets pregnant, and the wicked witch kicks her out of the tower to starve in the desert. It's quite the Republican response to sex ed.
2012-08-27 02:25:21 PM
3 votes:

quickdraw: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

I have stopped going to Disney movies for that very reason. I'm just tired of the characters I identify most with being killed off every damn time. My daughter knows how I feel about this and told me I had to see Brave. Being turned into a bear is definitely a step above dying in a dramatically relevant fashion. And - as a metaphor for going through menopause - it's hard to argue with.


I annoy the crap out of my wife by pointing out how seriously farked up most of the princess's home lives are. None of them had a normal childhood, most are missing one or both parents.

Who are Snow White's parents? Why is she a princess and what is her relationship with the queen?
Where is Ariel's mother?
Why didn't the good fairies wait one more day to return Aurora to her parents, thus voiding the curse?
Why didn't Cinderella just knock on the Prince's door and say, "I'm the one you're in love with"?

Disney stories are lousy with plot holes.

/of course they are
//just think it's funny
2012-08-27 12:57:17 PM
3 votes:
Then there is the one where 7 guys live with one woman.

But what a woman!
img856.imageshack.us
2012-08-28 08:33:11 AM
2 votes:
Twisted Eye:
Rapunzel was absolutely independent and strong! ...UNTIL the very moments when it came time for her to be saved by the Male Love Interest, then she was completely powerless, every single time.

Let's see... after they left the tower (where she had initially subdued him and knocked him out a couple of times), Rapunzel ended up rescuing Flynn at the tavern (from the thugs), rescued him at the dam (by snagging his wrist and saving him from the horse), rescued him underwater (using her hair to light the way), rescued him from being arrested by the horse by talking the horse out of it for a day, and rescued him at the tower at the end by sacrificing her own freedom.

Flynn rescued her... once, at the very end, by cutting her hair, with an extra half-point for trying to give up the crown in order to get rid of his former partners (failed). This is in addition to his major duties in the film - as a tour guide to lead her to the nearby kingdom.

Admit it - you never actually saw the movie, did you?
2012-08-28 02:21:13 AM
2 votes:
The stories themselves aren't really a problem. As long as you also read your little girl books like Ramona the Brave and Otherwise Known as Sheila the Great.

But the level of princess mania/worship particularly in the US has gotten to sick, weird levels. It seems to be all princess, all the time. I do find that... disturbing. Probably aggravated by a lot of dead-inside soccer moms who hated working and also regret being mothers so are projecting their wish fulfilment on their kids.

I cannot stand Disney. But then I also can't stand Warner Bros. Something about the schmaltzy corporate Americana makes me want to rip my eyes out. If I accidentally come across some I HAVE to turn it off or change the channel, it is that grating. The voices, the lame tired jokes, the stupid slapstick - it almost feels physically painful.

/Some kind of weird misphonia, I guess
2012-08-27 10:55:49 PM
2 votes:
I really liked Disney movies. Sure I had my cynic stage of "Disney sux Spawn rulz, dude" during my early teen ages, but I really liked them when I was a kid. Specially Sleeping Beauty.

And honestly, it was because the Fairy Godmothers are tons of fun and Maleficent was a kickass villain (yeah, her motivation was kinda vain, but... fark you biatch, she can turn herself into a dragon!!!). So yeah, the movie was tons of fun. Screw the princess, the real protagonists are the Godmothers.

Also, I always gave another reading to the whole Belle and the Beast dynamic. I always saw it as Belle falling in love with the Beast AFTER he stopped being abusive emo jerk

Yeah, he redeemed himself for her, but she didn't did the whole "Oh wow, a troubled bad boy... how sexy" nor the "My love can change him" crap. He pulled his shiat together and proved being a better person and a good guy, THEN she fell for him. I never really saw it as Stockholm Syndrome. I could see the counter argument of viewing women as merely reward for good conduct and all the bashing against the Nice Guy archetype if the point of view of Belle wasn't shown also.

I can understand the complains about gender issues, specially directed towards the classic princesses (Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty). After all, those (barely) characters aren't even the main focus of their own movies and none of them have a really distinct characterization. They pretty much stand around and look pretty while much more interesting characters steal the movie (Again, the Godmothers on Sleeping Beauty are tons of fun). Thing is, those movies are product of their time and their source material.

Now, the new ones (from Little Mermaid onward... well, except for Pocahontas) are much more round characters, they are the actual focus of their movies and are (in my opinion) much more interesting, specially compared with the Classic ones. I'm not saying that the gender issues aren't there, and that Disney could not deliver a much more round, complex and deep character as a Disney Princess. But there are much more interesting female characters outside the Princess franchise. Yeah, I cheat including Pixar, but Disney distributes their movies under their brand.

/The Bledchel test, while interesting, doesn't mean anything really.
/Sex and the City passes, if I'm not wrong.
2012-08-27 10:41:20 PM
2 votes:
How do you know those Disney princess movies aren't just appealing to little girls who like that kind of thing in the first place? I watched all those movies growing up but the princess characters never really appealed to me nor influenced any of my behavior as a child. Also, who says it's wrong for a little girl to want to grow up to be beautiful and marry a rich man, like that that's a bad thing? You'd be a big ol' liar if you told me good looking women didn't have an advantage over ugly ones.
2012-08-27 10:33:30 PM
2 votes:
I find it interesting that all these Disney movies revolve around princesses, with the adult queen (if there happens to be one in the story) as a villian.

Aren't the princesses going to grow up to be Queens? Queens have Important Sh*t To DoTM, like running countries when their King bites it fighting dragons or runs off to the Crusades.

I guess royal council meetings about crop reports aren't very fairy-tale friendly.
2012-08-27 09:30:47 PM
2 votes:

texdent: Tinkerbell 
[collegecandy.files.wordpress.com image 322x322]


1.bp.blogspot.com

Tinkerbell had hips.
2012-08-27 09:11:24 PM
2 votes:

Dreamless: WhippingBoy: Dreamless: WhippingBoy: My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.

That is good. Better still if she hasn't internalized any of that nonsense.

Christ, are you for real? I feel sorry for you if this is what your life is like...

I would ask if you were for real, but I know already that you have trollish tendencies. Is everything really face-value for you? Are all humans perfectly self-interested cognitive agents? Do you not believe in an unconscious mind? Do you not think that subtle messages can have affects on greater society? Do you not appreciate nuance? Are you utterly dependent on ad hominem attacks?

You would seek to deride me for my persistence, but I'm not arguing with myself, am I?


I feel sorry for you because every experience and special moment you'll ever have will first need to be passed through your feminist lens to make sure it's appropriate and subscribes to your own limited world view.
2012-08-27 08:20:16 PM
2 votes:
No one's mentioned Henry Giroux yet?

The Mouse That Roared: Disney and the End of Innocence

I think parents are more aware now than they used to be about monitoring what their kids watch (and talking about it with them), and Disney has gotten a little less stereotypey in its character creation over the past decade or so, but childlike innocence (however dishonest that idea may be) is a commodity that Disney has packaged and sold for decades.
2012-08-27 08:11:24 PM
2 votes:
Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.
2012-08-27 07:43:10 PM
2 votes:

Oznog:

Ever read the original Grimm's Fairy Tales? They've got some truly horrific things going on in them. There seems to be a notably different tone, to prepare kids for nightmares of reality. The kind of thing stories now have sterilized out of them.


Yes :) I have read a few of them. I feel disappointed by the show on tv. However, "Once Upon a Time" is interesting and dark.

I come from an Indo-Hindu background and love the creepy, evil tales of the Lords and Devils of Hinduism. Not as dark as Grimm, but still more "real" than Disney and many stories made for children.
2012-08-27 07:41:26 PM
2 votes:
Other non-Disney princesses
t0.gstatic.com
blog.blockbuster.com
th03.deviantart.net
moonprincess.com
2012-08-27 07:15:52 PM
2 votes:

brigid_fitch: SphericalTime: However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.

And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

But, yeah, Brave was definitely a departure from the Disney formula and more relatable to a LOT of kids. "See, Mom's really just looking out for you and does love you. Please don't turn her into a bear."


imgs.mi9.com

I always thought it was MAJOR weird that her only explanation was "well, when I was a little girl, a witch put a spell on me", and it'd be broken somehow by a proper kiss, which is an unusual condition to leave in a form of harm thrown at someone. And left it at that. It's odd, it's the whole premise for her character and necessary to explain her character, but it's an absurdly vague backstory. And the audience just suspended questioning there, I think assuming that it would be explained more further on, then forgetting about it. Until IIRC they started patching that canon hole in later movies.

Not to say Shrek wasn't a great movie. Just weird that you can say "a wizard did it" and not be obligated to explain it for real.
2012-08-27 06:59:27 PM
2 votes:
Belle

i216.photobucket.com

/rule 34?
2012-08-27 06:43:56 PM
2 votes:

Oznog: You can point out many chick flicks have a preponderance of female-female conversation, but that's chick flicks. It doesn't work well in sci-fi/fantasy/action.


That's because those are guy flicks.

See also: action movies
2012-08-27 06:38:33 PM
2 votes:

jst3p: Mike Chewbacca: The entire point of feminism is making sure women have all the same choices and opportunities men have.

They have more choices. Opportunity is debatable.


And that's why there's still a feminist movement. That, and the fact that the GOP wants to tun the clock back to 1951.
2012-08-27 06:23:58 PM
2 votes:
The way people should look at "fairy tales" is from the "tale" perspective. Disney princesses lead a cushy life with their primary stress associated to their dependence on the (crappy) men of their life. The "tale" part is that very rarely are men found putting women in these situations and even rarer are women willingly putting themselves in the "fairy tale" role. Most of us have had the experience of struggle in our childhood and want our children to learn problem solving skills adequate for later survival. These movies should be presented to children as an "impossible" story....and girls should be taught that these movies do not have a happy ending because women who continue to be dependent upon a man can face many of the discomforts they faces prior to their "fairy tale ending" if and when the fairy tale ends.
2012-08-27 06:17:24 PM
2 votes:

Oznog: Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies. Seriously. Almost none. Or, IF they do, it's solely to muse upon the riddle of how a male character can be so handsome and awesome. Sometimes it's because of the Smurfette Principle of only having one woman in the key cast, but then you have a movie like X-Men First Class with a number of "powerful" female characters, but they never speak to one another on-camera. Statistically odd, there definitely seems to be an unwritten law here that women talking together turns off an audience.


I feel kind of ashamed I never noticed this before, interesting point. Does Zombie Strippers count? I mean, I know that's not traditional sci-fi but they do have a lot of conversations that involve killing and eating people.

Jeez. Ripley and Vasquez never really had a conversation, did they.

Gyrfalcon: Anyhoo, the point was that NONE of that showed up in the movie; all her story got shoved aside with the idea she was just there to be a secondary love-interest.


I'm just going to defy the gods of the Internet and amiably agree with this.
2012-08-27 06:06:14 PM
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Classic fairy tales ARE gender stereotypes, in case nobody ever noticed before.


Uh, no, they aren't.

Gyrfalcon: HalEmmerich: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

Fark Peter Jackson.

/I was going to suggest Eowyn out of Tolkien if you're looking for a female role model, but I guess outside the 'I am no man' bit she's no better, what with the whole 'Aragorn doesn't like me so I want to go die in battle' business..or was that part more Jackson nonsense?
//I have some rereading to do.StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghostshis fellow rangers and the freed people from the coastal cities in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.

Eowyn's big moment was all farked up because they couldn't just stick with the order of events from the books. And hell, other than the fact it's someone flying the banner of the king that shows up she doesn't even really get outshone, killing the witch king basically broke the back of the army, it was largely cleanup work after that.

/my memory of the books may be a bit fuzzy and muddled by the movies
//I think I'm due for a re-reading

In the parts of Tolkein that never made it into the published trilogy, there's a whole backstory about Eowyn and Eomer and why she was so distraught. Turns out the brother and sister were the children of Theoden's sister and a warrior who died young; Eowyn passionately loved her cousin, Theoden's son, who had been killed at the Battle of the Fords of Isen...so she latched onto Aragorn as the next best thing. It also explains why she turned to Faramir later--he was much closer to her cousin, personality-wise.

As for why she killed the Witch-Ki ...


Galadriel? She's the only remanent of the Noldor of the first age and the keeper of the Ring of Adamant.

There are literally dozens of powerful women in the Tolkien legendarium, why focus on the LotR. Luthien, Melian, the Sun.

/it was Glofindel's prophecy about the Witch King. love glorfindel!
2012-08-27 05:39:38 PM
2 votes:

Oznog: Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies. Seriously. Almost none.


This is a common misconception. In fact, more than half of mainstream movies pass the Bechdel Test

The perception that most movies don't is basically a trick of memory.
2012-08-27 05:35:51 PM
2 votes:
As a youth counselor, I dealt with a kid just like that. Her mom was a middle-school, high-school, and college cheerleader, then a cheerleader instructor in college. Her kid was thoroughly convinced that if she just looked pretty enough, and could cheerlead, she would attract a guy who would give her money and gifts, and she would never have to worry about anything ever again. I informed her that she would not be pretty forever, and the guy was never a guarantee, so it might be wise to learn some lucrative skills she could practice on her own. She sort of snorted and dismissed me, and she was in fourth grade. I'd love to see her life when she's 40.
2012-08-27 05:05:39 PM
2 votes:

SphericalTime: They've been mostly gender stereotypes (and I'm kind of surprised that the author of article is just realizing that). Disney found a formula and bought into it wholeheartedly: take a classic fairy tale and make the central focus a love story (if it wasn't already). And, with that formula, the princesses were mostly objects to be rescued.

However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.


It would have been better if the suitors were viable love interests. Then her choosing none would be a real choice of her own.

As they framed it, even the most meek and accepting girl would have not wanted the choices laid before her.


Ie if you give a person filet and tenderloin as q choice, choosing neither is a much bigger deal than if the options were shoe leather and pig ear.
2012-08-27 04:47:43 PM
2 votes:

SinisterDexter: Gyrfalcon: Nevermind that Princess 1 barely figured in LoTR except as someone Aragorn wanted to marry; and Princess 2 not only wasn't a princess, she was actively suicidal and wanted to die in battle because she had so little in her life...Movies that try to throw girls in to the mix when they weren't there to start with usually fail miserably, at least on the gender-equality level.

Are you suggesting Jackson et al should not have changed Arwen and Eowyn? I can't tell.


I'm suggesting that they were drastically changed to put women into the storyline. Arwen wasn't even a character in the books, except when she showed up at the end to wed Aragorn. And Eowyn's tale was much different from what Jackson made of it. Her whole impetus for acting as she did was glossed over in the movie to make it "Oh, she loves Aragorn because we need SOME kind of love triangle to make it interesting."

Sometimes you don't need to paste a romance/female lead into a story, if the story is compelling enough. This idea that you have to have a woman character roughly equivalent to the male lead because you're being sexist otherwise is just asinine. It's gotten to where nobody can tell a story anymore, seems like, without worrying who they're going to offend and adjusting the story accordingly.
2012-08-27 04:39:45 PM
2 votes:

zippythechimp: God Is My Co-Pirate: Then there's the original Rapunzel story, where she gets pregnant, and the wicked witch kicks her out of the tower to starve in the desert. It's quite the Republican response to sex ed.

Really?


Yup. The prince "visits" Rapunzel every day while the witch is out. Eventually she can't hide the pregnancy any more. The witch cuts off her hair and kicks her out into the wilderness. The prince comes back to the tower, climbs the braid as usual, and when he gets to the top, the witch leans out and pushes him off. He falls into a thorn bush, which blinds him, and spends years crippled and wandering the wilderness. Years later, he hears a familiar song and goes towards it; it's Rapunzel, who by this point has had twins. She falls into his arms crying, her tears heal his eyesight, and they live happily ever after. It's a messed up sex ed story.
2012-08-27 04:27:19 PM
2 votes:

StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.


You're forgetting the scene pictured, where she draws off the enemy by herself to save the others.
2012-08-27 04:26:35 PM
2 votes:
I've been seeing that picture floating around the Net for years. But yeah, to some degree, the Disney Princesses are about gender stereotypes. Considering the source material, this should come as no surprise.

What is surprising is how much those stereotypes are softened as compared to the original tales. The original Little Mermaid, for example, is rewarded not with her man, but with a lifetime of serving others through which she might be able to forge a soul for herself. In comparison with stuff like that, Disney seems downright progressive.
2012-08-27 04:26:25 PM
2 votes:
So we should deprive children the movies they may love and have no desire to know about hidden meanings that they really don't understand?
2012-08-27 04:21:56 PM
2 votes:

StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.


Nevermind that Princess 1 barely figured in LoTR except as someone Aragorn wanted to marry; and Princess 2 not only wasn't a princess, she was actively suicidal and wanted to die in battle because she had so little in her life.

Movies that try to throw girls in to the mix when they weren't there to start with usually fail miserably, at least on the gender-equality level.
2012-08-27 04:19:46 PM
2 votes:

Drubell: Belle was independent, smart, and liked to read books.

The other listed princesses in that article sucked.


Belle was an incredible role model for the exact reasons you said.
2012-08-27 04:08:43 PM
2 votes:
Disney Princesses: Classic Fairy Tales Or Gender Sterotypes and stuff little girls really like
2012-08-27 04:04:23 PM
2 votes:

brigid_fitch: SphericalTime: However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.

And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

But, yeah, Brave was definitely a departure from the Disney formula and more relatable to a LOT of kids. "See, Mom's really just looking out for you and does love you. Please don't turn her into a bear."


www.fromscreentotheme.com

*eyebrow*
2012-08-27 03:58:43 PM
2 votes:
blog.pigtailpals.com
First princess that was worth a damn
2012-08-27 03:50:37 PM
2 votes:
What princesses look like
trend911.com
www.blogcdn.com

What an evil queen looks like
blog.zap2it.com
2012-08-27 03:00:12 PM
2 votes:

quickdraw: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

I have stopped going to Disney movies for that very reason. I'm just tired of the characters I identify most with being killed off every damn time. My daughter knows how I feel about this and told me I had to see Brave. Being turned into a bear is definitely a step above dying in a dramatically relevant fashion. And - as a metaphor for going through menopause - it's hard to argue with.


Dont most children's stories revolve around kids learning to cope in the absence of adults/authority figures? Seems to be a major theme.
2012-08-27 02:30:26 PM
2 votes:
Classic fairy tales, mostly:

Princess - Year of origin (mostly) followed by source in parentheses.

Snow White - 1812-1864 (Bros Grimm)
Cinderella - 1697 (Charles Perrault and older myths)
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) - 1697 (Charles Perrault and Bros Grimm)
Ariel - 1837 (Hans Christian Anderson)
Belle - 1740 (Gabrielle-Suzanne Babot de Villeneuve)
Jasmine - 9th Century (Ancient Middle East)
Pocahontas - 1613 (loosely History based)
Mulan - between 1368 and 1644 (ancient Chinese legend of Hua Mulan - 386 to 534 A.D)
Tiana - 1812-1864 Bros Grimm / E.D Baker's 2002 novel "The Frog Princess"
Rapunzel - 1698 (French tale and Bros Grimm)
Merida - 2012 (Original)

source: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Princess and http://www.wikipedia.org/ 

Only two really don't fit. Tiana (if you go with the 2002 origin) and Merida.
2012-08-27 12:52:26 PM
2 votes:

Gunny Highway: [static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

I am sure someone has a problem with her too.


Easily one of the gayest Disney stories of all time. Shang starts to fall in love with Ping long before it's revealed that he is actually a she. And when he does find out, look at the disappointment on his face! Seriously, Li Shang loves the cock.
2012-08-27 12:33:01 PM
2 votes:
static.guim.co.uk

I am sure someone has a problem with her too.
2012-08-28 08:17:00 AM
1 votes:
Came in to point out that basically all the princes and/or people pretending to be princes are useless prettyboys who lucked into their fortune through sheer happenstance (usually of birth, even more random with Aladdin) and never accomplish anything on their own merits either.

But I see it's more or less been covered already.

//Mulan was nice in that not only the heroine, but the love interest actually accomplished things through, like, work and talent.
//I'm fine with the love interest always being portrayed as arbitrarily attractive, assumably a children's movie is going to be from the perspective of the protagonist.
2012-08-28 07:07:06 AM
1 votes:

Oznog: jst3p: Masterstuff: So Brave was an Original idea? As in wasn't directly related to some fairy tale?

I said that I would only watch Disney movies if it had an original story... looks like i'll have to find this in one of the theaters that show old movies around here.

Isn't Toy Story original? I hope so because those are pretty cool movies.

NOTHING is "original" if you look at it hard enough. Star Wars is a typical "Hero's Journey" layout. Its concept for space battles was copying WWII nosecam footage, which wasn't well-known at the time because The History Channel wouldn't start airing every known frame of it in a continuous loop for another 20 years. The trench scene was a pretty shameless ripoff of an obscure WWII movie called Dambusters, like shot-for-shot. There's some video online of how Indiana Jones was a ripoff of an old black-and-white adventure movie, again, so shot-for-shot it's nearly plagiarized.


Speaking of copypasta:

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com

24.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com

Disney loves ripping off 20 year old anime.
2012-08-27 11:21:30 PM
1 votes:
One more thing,

The Whore Of Mensa: Feminists want all women to be fulfilled and supported and equal


So which is it? Fulfilled and supported or equal? Cause equal doesn't mean a pillow under your ass. It means get the same sized shovel. : )
2012-08-27 11:16:28 PM
1 votes:

The Whore Of Mensa: Feminists want all women to be fulfilled and supported and equal, no matter WHAT life they choose.


Men want that, too. It's called "crossing your fingers and doing your best." They don't really put a gender assignment to it because it seems a bit silly to define it what way. If one waits for somebody *else* to do all that for them, though, they may have missed "equality" when perusing the Websters. It's a crapshoot and men don't have as many "options" handed to them as women seem to think
2012-08-27 11:12:15 PM
1 votes:

The Whore Of Mensa: well, in the movie it was established that she didn't want to be like the other girls in her village. She didn't want to get married off, but she didn't seem to know WHAT she wanted to do. So... if the Emperor of China offers you a job in that situation, and you say... naaah... kind of a let-down for the character.


Maybe she still didn't know what she wanted to do. She probably was just written that way. : )
2012-08-27 11:06:30 PM
1 votes:

bunner: The Whore Of Mensa: She responds, no, that's okay, I'm going to go home to my village and do nothing with my life.*

Yep. That's the message for girls that I'm NOT crazy about.

Isn't that what feminism was about? Doing what you please with your life even if others think it's not important?


well, in the movie it was established that she didn't want to be like the other girls in her village. She didn't want to get married off, but she didn't seem to know WHAT she wanted to do. So... if the Emperor of China offers you a job in that situation, and you say... naaah... kind of a let-down for the character.

and, as a feminist-- feminism does not exist to attack "traditional" female roles. Feminists want all women to be fulfilled and supported and equal, no matter WHAT life they choose. Sometimes that message gets lost, and I should have stated that more clearly earlier. I'm just saying, Mulan seemed opposed to "traditional life" as a character-- it was an about-face to change tacts at the end just to give the traditional Disney ending.

And here I am arguing the feminist impulses of a cartoon character on fark. Tragic. I'm going to bed.
2012-08-27 10:50:02 PM
1 votes:

Mog32Kupo: This thread has entertained me all day.

Sure, Disney teaches Prince Charming

(The Hasbro comment end game was clutch)

But all the women I go after aren't looking for their Charming... Just a rich Asshole.

So...I dunno, I don't have a conclusion.


Like I've seen many do before, you're going after the wrong women.
2012-08-27 09:58:29 PM
1 votes:

Thorak: Tangled was a marginal step forward (Princess' mother still alive), but it still suffers a TON from "princess needs a man to accomplish anything". And he's no better; the one saving grace is that he's not attractive AND good-hearted AND wealthy, just two of the three. A marginal step up from Aladdin who was the same two, but faked the third to try and get the girl.


What version of Tangled were you watching? Rapunzel was the competent one and the one continually moving the plot forward, despite Flynn's constant fark-ups and general incompetence.
2012-08-27 09:38:46 PM
1 votes:

RsquaredW: Better than the guys version.

1) be rich and good looking
2) be rich and good looking
3) be rich and good looking cursed to be ugly until good looking again
4) be rich and good looking
5) pretend to be rich and good looking
6) be rich and good looking

Quick, name the movies!


www.impactlab.net
2012-08-27 09:29:10 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: MBooda: The Sound of Music,

Wasn't that about a no talent nun, with the liberal arts finesse to sing songs, and play guitar, and babbysit, who married a rich guy and have like 8 kids with out having to actually have sex?
*PRINCESS*


Ah but she talks with the Mother Superior! And usually, about something other than Capt. von Trapp! Passes the Bechdel Test!
2012-08-27 09:24:49 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: feel sorry for you because every experience and special moment you'll ever have will first need to be passed through your feminist lens to make sure it's appropriate and subscribes to your own limited world view.


I thought when you had to make sure that every single thing you did has to pass approval of a world view that was taught to you, that that was being oppressed. I guess it's different if it's taught to you by other women.
2012-08-27 09:19:36 PM
1 votes:

Oznog:
Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies.


Boy, if she liked Alien, she probably loved the climactic scene in Aliens. A brave knight saves a young maiden from a hideous dragon...and all three...the knight, the maiden and the dragon...are female. Only two men even peripherally involved, and both are incapacitated...one isn't even technically a man.

/and I guess she likes The Sound of Music, Black Narcissus and every other movie set in a convent
2012-08-27 09:18:48 PM
1 votes:

T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.


Yeeeeaaaaah, not so much.

/"It's the lionesses' job to do the hunting."
2012-08-27 09:02:19 PM
1 votes:

T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.


No, I want to be the Witch Queen with an entire castle of handsome peasant men at my disposal.

They'd look so cute in their loincloths and collars.
2012-08-27 08:54:56 PM
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: crzybtch: Well I for one would appreciate more realistic kids movies where the characters look like regular people and are focused on for their intelligence, wit and abilities.
I grew up on all that Disney princess crap and felt completely inferior as a tomgirl stuck in a boyish body with buck teeth and bad skin. I could get caught up in the dream of finding Mr. Wonderful one day only to have reality set in and realize that was for the petite pretty girls, not for a homely kid like me. Imagination and fantasy is fine but making kids feel like they will never measure up is just not cool. I would have been so much better off with movies where every girl didn't look beyond perfect and whose happy ending didn't always include Mr. Wonderful coming to "rescue" her. I also think boys deserve the same.

Disney tried....


[freeimagesarchive.com image 349x372]
Tink


[www.virginmedia.com image 431x300]
The chick on the left


[www.demotivationalposters.org image 640x484]
Eilonwy

So.. out of three tomboys who can kick ass in their own right, only one is human :\ :( They got better in the 90s with making female characters who could stand up for themselves and weren't just waiting for Mr. Right.


I must be really farkin old because I have no idea who the last one was? But I did like the animal characters...and Tink is cool, but she just made me mad that I couldn't fly! And well that I could never have her tiny waist and big boobs. (Hate to admit that at 50 I still wish I could fly...lol....well and a tiny waist and big boobs wouldn't hurt)
2012-08-27 08:31:18 PM
1 votes:
We just bought another Disney dress yesterday bringing the total to four. Merida, Snow White, Belle and now Rapunzel.

My girl says it's a Princess's job to wear pretty dresses. How could I argue with that?
2012-08-27 08:03:53 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Classic fairy tales ARE gender stereotypes, in case nobody ever noticed before.


THIS

And the tale of of useless, unwanted youngest children.
2012-08-27 08:01:27 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Don't worry. If you spoon feed your little girl every possible post-feminist party like ever, over and over, until she can recite with the properly affected sneer and she STILL grows up to be a mommy and learns to bake cookies, don't worry. You didn't fail. She just started thinking for herself. Ditto for astronaut. : )


If she wants to bake cookies, good for her. It's nice to have options.
2012-08-27 07:55:25 PM
1 votes:
funny-scenes.com
2012-08-27 07:39:34 PM
1 votes:
Not Disney, but I like Chel from "The Road to El Dorado." There is a Stephen Lynch song that adequately sums up my feelings.
2012-08-27 07:38:38 PM
1 votes:
Bored people problems. Get a farking job.

/ or, boring people problems
// not sure
2012-08-27 07:26:46 PM
1 votes:

DayDreamingD: The way people should look at "fairy tales" is from the "tale" perspective. Disney princesses lead a cushy life with their primary stress associated to their dependence on the (crappy) men of their life. The "tale" part is that very rarely are men found putting women in these situations and even rarer are women willingly putting themselves in the "fairy tale" role. Most of us have had the experience of struggle in our childhood and want our children to learn problem solving skills adequate for later survival. These movies should be presented to children as an "impossible" story....and girls should be taught that these movies do not have a happy ending because women who continue to be dependent upon a man can face many of the discomforts they faces prior to their "fairy tale ending" if and when the fairy tale ends.


Ever read the original Grimm's Fairy Tales? They've got some truly horrific things going on in them. There seems to be a notably different tone, to prepare kids for nightmares of reality. The kind of thing stories now have sterilized out of them.
2012-08-27 07:25:06 PM
1 votes:

Dreamless: WhippingBoy:
You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.
Disney cartoons portray talking animals. We'd better put a stop to this lest children grow up and spend all their time trying to get the family dog to talk.

Surely you are not equating the obviously magical elements of the story with the ostensibly realistic ones?

fark, it bothers me when they anthropomorphize the animals in stereotypical ways too.


Obviously magical vs. ostensibly real? I'm not sure my 6-year old daughter is mature enough to make a distinction between the two in every single case.
Perhaps you shouldn't watch children's media any more. You seem to be having quite a difficult time with it.
2012-08-27 07:21:38 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:


And those are bothersome too.
2012-08-27 06:58:26 PM
1 votes:
Ariel

i216.photobucket.com
2012-08-27 06:58:03 PM
1 votes:

brigid_fitch: SphericalTime: However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.

And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.


Probably already noted, but Mulan's mother was alive.

Mulan, the most ignored Disney character and animated movie in recent times for some reason, but one of the best.
2012-08-27 06:57:42 PM
1 votes:
Snow White

i216.photobucket.com
2012-08-27 06:55:38 PM
1 votes:

The Whore Of Mensa: She responds, no, that's okay, I'm going to go home to my village and do nothing with my life.*

Yep. That's the message for girls that I'm NOT crazy about.


Isn't that what feminism was about? Doing what you please with your life even if others think it's not important?
2012-08-27 06:55:05 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: StaleCoffee: Oznog: Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies. Seriously. Almost none. Or, IF they do, it's solely to muse upon the riddle of how a male character can be so handsome and awesome. Sometimes it's because of the Smurfette Principle of only having one woman in the key cast, but then you have a movie like X-Men First Class with a number of "powerful" female characters, but they never speak to one another on-camera. Statistically odd, there definitely seems to be an unwritten law here that women talking together turns off an audience.

I feel kind of ashamed I never noticed this before, interesting point. Does Zombie Strippers count? I mean, I know that's not traditional sci-fi but they do have a lot of conversations that involve killing and eating people.

Jeez. Ripley and Vasquez never really had a conversation, did they.

Gyrfalcon: Anyhoo, the point was that NONE of that showed up in the movie; all her story got shoved aside with the idea she was just there to be a secondary love-interest.

I'm just going to defy the gods of the Internet and amiably agree with this.

Not familiar with Zombie Strippers. Of course a LACK of a Bechdel scene doesn't mean it's inherently full of weak female characters, nor the converse. It's just... "curious" that there's so little female-female dialogue, and when it DOES occur, it's so often to ponder a male character and nothing else. A plot may involve a woman, a man, and an external major conflict to drive the plot- but rarely will the woman talk to another woman about the conflict they face, or to build up a character, give a backstory, whatever- it's usually about her relationship with the man. It just works that way, and there ain't much else to it

Like I say, it's often necessitated by the Smurfette Principle- only one woman in the cast. So it's just an incidental consequence there, except it only extends the question to "why can there be only one woman in a plot??" ...


I'd argue it is because women and men have different native conversational styles due to the differences in our brains. Men are pretty straight forward and a lot of their thinking follows A-B-C logic, women are more complex and tend to think more in terms of relationships and emotional context, and to a certain extent their conversational style is more personalized because of that making writing female dialogue more difficult. Hell, I'm a writer and a lot of my female characters come off as Action Girls or other stereotypes even with me working at it. Of course I do write scifi so...
2012-08-27 06:53:12 PM
1 votes:

Gunny Highway: [static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

I am sure someone has a problem with her too.


I love Mulan, and there are some great messages for girls in the movie. Mulan succeeds in the military not by becoming a man, but by relying on her own talents (for instance, she solves the arrow puzzle with brains, not brawn). Yeah, yeah, cheesy, I know. And, yes, that is a good message for boys, too, but, whatever.

The thing that drives me crazy is that at the end of the movie, she's saved China from the Mongols, and the Emperor offers her a job on his council. She responds, no, that's okay, I'm going to go home to my village and do nothing with my life.*

Yep. That's the message for girls that I'm NOT crazy about.


*or something similar
2012-08-27 06:51:36 PM
1 votes:

Dreamless: WhippingBoy: Marshal805: I'm a youngster. So I'm gonna ask: Was this an issue in the 70's Feminist movement?

No, they were fighting for actual important things.

You're right. There's nothing important about how women are portrayed in popular children's media.


You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.
Disney cartoons portray talking animals. We'd better put a stop to this lest children grow up and spend all their time trying to get the family dog to talk.
2012-08-27 06:49:37 PM
1 votes:

Mike Chewbacca: Your sister is a great example of feminism in action because she was given the choice to work or to be a stay at home mom.


Actually, as a political construct, my sister wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with "feminism". She has no use for ostensibly urgent social engineering. She's too busy living her own life and as far as being given things, she always made her own decisions and made damn sure her family wall agreed, and when they didn't, compromise was the answer. I'm pretty sure that THAT is not only the gist of feminism, but life as an adult. I see your point, but mine was that if you need cartoons, magazines or weekly "you go grrrrl" sessions to run your own life, you probably don't. Feminism was a great and overdue and useful movement in it's day. Now, it's just another multi-billion dollar industry and a coat peg for marketing wankers. And for shame on that. The only problem with most successful "movements" is that they tend to keep complaining and demanding things long after their goals are achieved. I'll give a damn about the tattered remains of Western feminism when they set up shop in countries where women really are treated like chattel and stop pissing and moaning about cartoons in smirky op ed pieces.
2012-08-27 06:46:37 PM
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: Oznog: Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies. Seriously. Almost none. Or, IF they do, it's solely to muse upon the riddle of how a male character can be so handsome and awesome. Sometimes it's because of the Smurfette Principle of only having one woman in the key cast, but then you have a movie like X-Men First Class with a number of "powerful" female characters, but they never speak to one another on-camera. Statistically odd, there definitely seems to be an unwritten law here that women talking together turns off an audience.

I feel kind of ashamed I never noticed this before, interesting point. Does Zombie Strippers count? I mean, I know that's not traditional sci-fi but they do have a lot of conversations that involve killing and eating people.

Jeez. Ripley and Vasquez never really had a conversation, did they.

Gyrfalcon: Anyhoo, the point was that NONE of that showed up in the movie; all her story got shoved aside with the idea she was just there to be a secondary love-interest.

I'm just going to defy the gods of the Internet and amiably agree with this.


Not familiar with Zombie Strippers. Of course a LACK of a Bechdel scene doesn't mean it's inherently full of weak female characters, nor the converse. It's just... "curious" that there's so little female-female dialogue, and when it DOES occur, it's so often to ponder a male character and nothing else. A plot may involve a woman, a man, and an external major conflict to drive the plot- but rarely will the woman talk to another woman about the conflict they face, or to build up a character, give a backstory, whatever- it's usually about her relationship with the man. It just works that way, and there ain't much else to it

Like I say, it's often necessitated by the Smurfette Principle- only one woman in the cast. So it's just an incidental consequence there, except it only extends the question to "why can there be only one woman in a plot??" But it's apparently deeper, because there are so many movies with multiple female characters who never converse. Or, at best, it's a minimum- or, as mentioned, only conversing about a man.

Evidently there's a real turn-off of "women talking", and if you DO do it, you'd better cast yourself as a chick flick or it just won't sell. That's my theory.
2012-08-27 06:35:17 PM
1 votes:

Dhusk: [images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 850x850]

Since we're doing non-Disney princesses too, I figured Celestia was pretty obligatory. And she has Disney-like trappings she's very un-Disney in many ways...she's one of the most powerful beings in her world, the head of state, hads no male counterpart or love interest, and is wise and learned and accomplished...and she's not even human so the beauty standard doesn't really apply.


I second this motion, and would add Princess Luna in the mix as well, though for different reasons.
2012-08-27 06:34:37 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Marshal805: I'm a youngster. So I'm gonna ask: Was this an issue in the 70's Feminist movement?

No, they were fighting for actual important things.


You're right. There's nothing important about how women are portrayed in popular children's media.
2012-08-27 06:11:20 PM
1 votes:
www.asatru.ru

/ not disney, but still a fairy tale... basically, if you don't mind the 19th century update
2012-08-27 06:09:40 PM
1 votes:

degenerate-afro: Okay, so people need good female role models from Disney. How about a single mother and business owner who is in charge of everything that happens around her?


Yay for dropping images, let's try again.

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
2012-08-27 06:08:28 PM
1 votes:
Okay, so people need good female role models from Disney. How about a single mother and business owner who is in charge of everything that happens around her?
2012-08-27 05:59:34 PM
1 votes:

Thorak: It's not really fair to call Brave a Disney flick. It's Pixar. Pixar has the stones to tell Disney to piss off and GTFO their writing, and the industry clout to just up and walk if Disney doesn't listen. Heck, they did that, and were wildly succesful on their own.

Tangled was a marginal step forward (Princess' mother still alive), but it still suffers a TON from "princess needs a man to accomplish anything". And he's no better; the one saving grace is that he's not attractive AND good-hearted AND wealthy, just two of the three. A marginal step up from Aladdin who was the same two, but faked the third to try and get the girl.


Seriously, don't point at Brave and say "Disney's getting better!" That was all Pixar. Pixar's never had that issue.


You didn't pay very good attention to Tangled. Rapunzel knocked Flynn Rider out and saved his ass (the bar, the dam & cave). He only saved her by cutting her hair and in the end it was her tears that resurrected him.

Rapunzel is very modern. Meridia's kind of spoiled & snotty.
2012-08-27 05:57:24 PM
1 votes:

Marshal805: I'm a youngster. So I'm gonna ask: Was this an issue in the 70's Feminist movement?


No, they were fighting for actual important things.
2012-08-27 05:49:51 PM
1 votes:

mjg: I'm OK with this.


img651.imageshack.us
img109.imageshack.us
img853.imageshack.us
img850.imageshack.us
2012-08-27 05:43:08 PM
1 votes:
If the cartoons you watched as a child determine how you live your life, you need help. My wife loved princess movies as a little kid. Owned all of them, had her room decorated with pictures of the girls in them, themed birthday parties, the whole nine yards. Right now she's an officer in the Army who has served two combat tours, with a CAB and jump wings tacked on. The only thing that you could really call "girly" about her is a love of the color purple, and the fact that she likes having long hair. My cousin grew up watching GI Joe, John Wayne movies, and playing varsity baseball and football. He grew up to be a gay investment banker married to a poet. Of course, he's also a right wing Republican on everything but gay rights.
2012-08-27 05:37:46 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: [t0.gstatic.com image 280x180][www.northarc.com image 850x536][swordofelysium.files.wordpress.com image 768x576][www.weirdasianews.com image 640x480]

Go to Studio Ghibli for better-written female characters. Who do NOT set out as "marrying a prince" as their ultimate goal in life. "Getting the boy" is never the point of the plot.

Nor do they fit the mold for an Action Girl, although they do contain elements of it at times.

Action Girl is like Laura Croft, where they're just taking an action hero role and adapting it to a female character, and assuming that's somehow feminist. Often we get a Faux Action Girl who we're TOLD is "badass" through dialogue and other characters' reactions, but never actually kills anyone or does anything especially hardcore or morally questionable. Your standard fantasy female "warrior".

Reason #3 of #1000 why Ghibli is SO much better farking overrated than Disney.


Fixed.
mjg
2012-08-27 05:36:57 PM
1 votes:
jirkavinse.files.wordpress.com

I'm OK with this.
2012-08-27 05:34:02 PM
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: Gyrfalcon: In the parts of Tolkein that never made it into the published trilogy, there's a whole backstory about Eowyn and Eomer and why she was so distraught. Turns out the brother and sister were the children of Theoden's sister and a warrior who died young; Eowyn passionately loved her cousin, Theoden's son, who had been killed at the Battle of the Fords of Isen...so she latched onto Aragorn as the next best thing. It also explains why she turned to Faramir later--he was much closer to her cousin, personality-wise.

Pretty sure that was all in Two Towers and Return of the King, and that's not why she fell for Aragorn, and Faramir went after her. I admit I haven't read it in years but the only other book I read by Tolkien besides the Hobbit was Silmarillion, and I'm fairly certain it isn't in that.


Some of it is in the Appendix; there's more in Unfinished Tales. I think that's where the whole story of Eowyn being in love with Theodred was given.

Anyhoo, the point was that NONE of that showed up in the movie; all her story got shoved aside with the idea she was just there to be a secondary love-interest.
2012-08-27 05:33:27 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: HalEmmerich: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

Fark Peter Jackson.

/I was going to suggest Eowyn out of Tolkien if you're looking for a female role model, but I guess outside the 'I am no man' bit she's no better, what with the whole 'Aragorn doesn't like me so I want to go die in battle' business..or was that part more Jackson nonsense?
//I have some rereading to do.StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghostshis fellow rangers and the freed people from the coastal cities in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.

Eowyn's big moment was all farked up because they couldn't just stick with the order of events from the books. And hell, other than the fact it's someone flying the banner of the king that shows up she doesn't even really get outshone, killing the witch king basically broke the back of the army, it was largely cleanup work after that.

/my memory of the books may be a bit fuzzy and muddled by the movies
//I think I'm due for a re-reading

In the parts of Tolkein that never made it into the published trilogy, there's a whole backstory about Eowyn and Eomer and why she was so distraught. Turns out the brother and sister were the children of Theoden's sister and a warrior who died young; Eowyn passionately loved her cousin, Theoden's son, who had been killed at the Battle of the Fords of Isen...so she latched onto Aragorn as the next best thing. It also explains why she turned to Faramir later--he was much closer to her cousin, personality-wise.

As for why she killed the Witch-Ki ...


Well, MOST sci-fi/fantasy writing has difficulty writing for women. In Star Trek TOS, we had Uhuru, who took messages and was basically the secretary, and bridge bunnies. It wasn't entirely by choice, though. The test pilot had Majel Barrett as Number One and commanded the crew when the Captain was away, but the networks deemed that as unlikely to be popular and canned Roddenberry's original idea.

Star Wars has TWO women in it. Your sister, and Mon Mothma, who has little to do with the plot. Although Leia IS a strong female character.

laceysfilms.files.wordpress.com
Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies. Seriously. Almost none. Or, IF they do, it's solely to muse upon the riddle of how a male character can be so handsome and awesome. Sometimes it's because of the Smurfette Principle of only having one woman in the key cast, but then you have a movie like X-Men First Class with a number of "powerful" female characters, but they never speak to one another on-camera. Statistically odd, there definitely seems to be an unwritten law here that women talking together turns off an audience.
2012-08-27 05:22:39 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: In the parts of Tolkein that never made it into the published trilogy, there's a whole backstory about Eowyn and Eomer and why she was so distraught. Turns out the brother and sister were the children of Theoden's sister and a warrior who died young; Eowyn passionately loved her cousin, Theoden's son, who had been killed at the Battle of the Fords of Isen...so she latched onto Aragorn as the next best thing. It also explains why she turned to Faramir later--he was much closer to her cousin, personality-wise.


Pretty sure that was all in Two Towers and Return of the King, and that's not why she fell for Aragorn, and Faramir went after her. I admit I haven't read it in years but the only other book I read by Tolkien besides the Hobbit was Silmarillion, and I'm fairly certain it isn't in that.
2012-08-27 05:22:24 PM
1 votes:

Cymbal: Then we'd turn to making reality porn.


img593.imageshack.us

half way there
2012-08-27 05:18:48 PM
1 votes:
This thread needs more hot cosplay chicks in Disney princess garb.
2012-08-27 05:16:01 PM
1 votes:

solaufein: Classic fairy tales, mostly:

Princess - Year of origin (mostly) followed by source in parentheses.

Snow White - 1812-1864 (Bros Grimm)
Cinderella - 1697 (Charles Perrault and older myths)
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) - 1697 (Charles Perrault and Bros Grimm)
Ariel - 1837 (Hans Christian Anderson)
Belle - 1740 (Gabrielle-Suzanne Babot de Villeneuve)
Jasmine - 9th Century (Ancient Middle East)
Pocahontas - 1613 (loosely History based)
Mulan - between 1368 and 1644 (ancient Chinese legend of Hua Mulan - 386 to 534 A.D)
Tiana - 1812-1864 Bros Grimm / E.D Baker's 2002 novel "The Frog Princess"
Rapunzel - 1698 (French tale and Bros Grimm)
Merida - 2012 (Original)

source: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Princess and http://www.wikipedia.org/ 

Only two really don't fit. Tiana (if you go with the 2002 origin) and Merida.


Of course the Disney versions have literally no resemblance to the original fairy tales. Didn't want to kids having nightmares by all the graphic violence, slaughter, rape, and nasty stuff that happen in them I am guessing.
2012-08-27 05:05:55 PM
1 votes:
All this outrage is a subtle (or not so subtle) form of shaming done by special interest groups in order to sway people to their ideology.
Do you let your little girl watch Disney Princess movies? Then you're a bad parent who seeks to oppress womyn everywhere!
2012-08-27 05:00:29 PM
1 votes:

skilbride: I had a challenge on my blog a couple weeks ago that everyone was too lazy to take up - but they should have. So I challenge you farkers!

Basically, I wanted people to rewrite Disney fairytales - for example, instead of Prince Charming marrying Sleeping Beauty - he gets arrested for date rape.

;)

Read other examples here


I think I'll pass.
2012-08-27 04:59:15 PM
1 votes:

bunner: I suppose the trick is to not be so pigsh*t thick that you allow animated films to dictate your world view.


my worldview is dictated by Wizards and I'll be dammed if'n I'm going to let the internet change that.
2012-08-27 04:57:02 PM
1 votes:

pedalphile: Pickled Pepper reminded me of another Disney 'princess' whose parents were still alive:

[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 180x129]

I hope the movie version of 'Peter and the Starcatchers' doesn't fark up the story line. First Peter plays the mother, then the daughter, and all the while has Tink on the side. There are perks to never growing up.


That's what bothers me. He had Tink. Why would he need anyone else? Yeah, I get it, he wants a Mom, someone to lead him and cuddle him and tell him it's going to be alright when he gets sick of being a Leader of Boys doing the leading and cuddling and telling his crew it's going to be alright, himself. Tink is so hardcore, though. She's his equal and more than his equal. But he can never fall in love with an equal. He can only fall in love with someone who.. what?
2012-08-27 04:52:22 PM
1 votes:
Pickled Pepper reminded me of another Disney 'princess' whose parents were still alive:

profile.ak.fbcdn.net

I hope the movie version of 'Peter and the Starcatchers' doesn't fark up the story line. First Peter plays the mother, then the daughter, and all the while has Tink on the side. There are perks to never growing up.
2012-08-27 04:50:03 PM
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.


And I can't believe Jackson left out that part about how Princess #2 promised Faramir that she would put aside her warrior ways and be a good housewife and make sandwiches.
2012-08-27 04:35:46 PM
1 votes:
murderburger.files.wordpress.com

Z0MG, THE CARTOONS ARE OPPRESSING MY WOMYNHOOD.!

They're cartoons.

c a r t o o n s .

Honest.
2012-08-27 04:35:02 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: The next Disney Princess is going to be an outraged, 300 pound lesbian named Glorioa (voiced by Rosie O'Donnell).

She will be fighting against the oppressive Hegemonic Patriarchy with the help of her magical friends:
- Kitsune, an outraged, trans-gendered POC who's into serious kink
- Mary-Ann, an outraged, bi-sexual (lesbian leaning) woman who constantly and deliberately puts her self into dangerous situations. Her wacky catchphrase is "stop blaming the victim"
- Loosey-Goosie, the outraged Slut Without Shame
- Jean Sixpack, a young, outraged character with no real convictions or mind of her own but who follows whatever the outraged Queen of Gender Studies tells her to believe without question

The movie will culminate with Gloria magically transforming into a trans-gendered man...

They're still working on a title, but it's scheduled for release in Christmas of 2013.


"Glory Whole"
2012-08-27 04:31:50 PM
1 votes:

LeroyBourne: So we should deprive children the movies they may love and have no desire to know about hidden meanings that they really don't understand?


When I was a wee lass, reading all the fairy tales, I never thought that they had all these hidden meanings. For instance, I never thought "Snow White" was about how a girl has to sit home and do the housework and then passively lie around waiting to be woken into womanhood blah blah blah. I thought that the message was that men didn't matter too much.

After all, Snow White got to run away from her mean mother, live in the forest with dwarves and animals and have a good time; while the Prince was just some guy who happened to ride by at the right time. ALL those stories were ABOUT the princess and her trials and tribulations; the Prince was mostly an afterthought, some poor schmuck who was in the right place at the right time. (Disney was the first one, in Sleeping Beauty who actually gave the poor Prince some kind of backstory and his own perils to face)

This was my earliest proof that some people just need to find things to be outraged over.
2012-08-27 04:31:05 PM
1 votes:
For fark's sake. Just lay off of Disney. Kids get it fine and they are more honest than any adult. Give it a rest PC police.
2012-08-27 04:27:33 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: I've often wondered... instead of complaining about what Disney does, why don't people make their own movies? That way, they can make the heroes/heroines whatever way they want them to be.


Because it would be half-assed and under-funded shiat that we'd all lose money on to the point of bankruptcy.

Then we'd turn to making reality porn.
2012-08-27 04:26:48 PM
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.


And she looked pretty badass in the Rankin & Bass version.
2012-08-27 04:23:00 PM
1 votes:
I've often wondered... instead of complaining about what Disney does, why don't people make their own movies? That way, they can make the heroes/heroines whatever way they want them to be.
2012-08-27 04:22:08 PM
1 votes:
StaleCoffee
This is why I hate peter jackson.
Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.


Well, he made her look pretty bad-ass in the first movie.
2012-08-27 04:20:04 PM
1 votes:

Masterstuff: So Brave was an Original idea? As in wasn't directly related to some fairy tale?


No, it's based on Queen Boadicea of ancient Britain. When she grows up she'll be flogged and raped and her daughters raped and eaten by Romans. Don't worry. Nothing good can come of her treacherous feminist ways.
2012-08-27 04:12:17 PM
1 votes:
Why must we continue to search for the deeper, ruinous meaning in everything? Can't we just relax, unplug, and continue viewing them as sex objects like decent people?

I mean, *really!*
2012-08-27 04:07:37 PM
1 votes:

brigid_fitch: ThatGuyGreg: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

[disney-blog.com image 550x302]

Nope.

Which Disney movie is that? I must have missed one.


Tangled. It's super cute, and the paper lantern sequence is gorgeous.
2012-08-27 04:04:57 PM
1 votes:

PsychoLaurie: Actually, Merida *does* have a love interest, as seen in the very last scene of the movie. It was subtle, but it was there.


Yeah, but the entire film didn't revolve around her and Mr. Love Interest. If anything, it was more a subversion of the movie about the princess finding the right love interest. She was finding herself and her place in the world, not a man... having found that, at the end she feels more comfortable with entertaining suitors.
2012-08-27 04:03:21 PM
1 votes:
I would so fark the ever living shiat out of Jasmine. But then I realize her real life counterpart would be wearing a burka and plotting to bomb my testicles off.

Kinda takes the fun out it.
2012-08-27 03:59:43 PM
1 votes:

Masterstuff: So Brave was an Original idea? As in wasn't directly related to some fairy tale?

I said that I would only watch Disney movies if it had an original story... looks like i'll have to find this in one of the theaters that show old movies around here.


Isn't Toy Story original? I hope so because those are pretty cool movies.
2012-08-27 03:59:43 PM
1 votes:

Thorak: It's not really fair to call Brave a Disney flick. It's Pixar. Pixar has the stones to tell Disney to piss off and GTFO their writing, and the industry clout to just up and walk if Disney doesn't listen. Heck, they did that, and were wildly succesful on their own.

Tangled was a marginal step forward (Princess' mother still alive), but it still suffers a TON from "princess needs a man to accomplish anything". And he's no better; the one saving grace is that he's not attractive AND good-hearted AND wealthy, just two of the three. A marginal step up from Aladdin who was the same two, but faked the third to try and get the girl.


Seriously, don't point at Brave and say "Disney's getting better!" That was all Pixar. Pixar's never had that issue.


Brave felt more like a Disney movie than a Pixar movie to me. I was thinking that even as I watched it. I think Disney had more influence than you assume.
2012-08-27 03:56:47 PM
1 votes:
Answer:

Over-analyzed and boring.
2012-08-27 03:55:03 PM
1 votes:

pudding7: Why didn't the good fairies wait one more day to return Aurora to her parents, thus voiding the curse?


Did you not notice that they were bumbling idiots?
2012-08-27 03:53:58 PM
1 votes:

brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.


Aurora's mother never dies.
2012-08-27 03:52:13 PM
1 votes:
They can't be both?
2012-08-27 03:51:36 PM
1 votes:

miss diminutive: I don't think the men fare all that better either.


Thanks for pointing that out. People tend to forget that young guys are affected by the stereotyping as well.
2012-08-27 03:47:13 PM
1 votes:
disney-clipart.com

Does the article say anything about Disney Duchesses?
2012-08-27 03:39:54 PM
1 votes:
Listen I am the individual upon which can see two sides of each issue and I will say to you this very much if you think about this Jasmine was the biatch and we can probably all have agreement that Snow White was the glutton. Also what was funny was the movie adaptation of this Snow White movie where Snow White was the investigator who was solving the murder and there was the person who was killed by the sleeping pills and the shy person was killed by being forced to attend the party and one was killed by being forced to do the inhalation of sneezing powder. And at the end of this movie what has happened is the woman who is Agent Snow White goes to the dock to find the head of the husband of she under this. Maybe I am having confusion upon two movies however.

Okay let us also think of the movie the Lady and the Tramp. Lady was certainly the biatch. I mean really she was this as she is the dog which is female LAUGHTER OL. But also she did the leading on of the Tramp so two strikes and she is out.

So yes it does appear of which the stereotypes are present. Perhaps Disney would do much better to work with someone who has known to do the gap bridging of different groups without the stereotypes. Prepare for the next movie of the Walt Disney Company:

Tyler Perry's Old Mutha Hubbard
2012-08-27 03:10:39 PM
1 votes:

pudding7: Who are Snow White's parents? Why is she a princess and what is her relationship with the queen?


Mother died in childbirth & father remarried. Then her father died, leaving her w/the evil queen.

Where is Ariel's mother?

Dead

Why didn't the good fairies wait one more day to return Aurora to her parents, thus voiding the curse?

Then it would have been a very short movie.

Why didn't Cinderella just knock on the Prince's door and say, "I'm the one you're in love with"?

Battered child syndrome.
2012-08-27 02:21:17 PM
1 votes:
I would have to say both... it's a sad day for a girl once she grows up and realizes there are no prince charmings or righteous knights on horseback... but then you see that cute guy at the mall and who cares, he's got some weed, man.
 
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