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(CTNow)   Disney Princesses: Classic Fairy Tales Or Gender Stereotypes?   (ctnow.com) divider line 379
    More: Amusing, Disney Princess, gender stereotypes, Disney, George Takei, Sleeping Beauty, Aladdin, princess, Brothers Grimm  
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13561 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2012 at 3:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-28 08:17:00 AM
Came in to point out that basically all the princes and/or people pretending to be princes are useless prettyboys who lucked into their fortune through sheer happenstance (usually of birth, even more random with Aladdin) and never accomplish anything on their own merits either.

But I see it's more or less been covered already.

//Mulan was nice in that not only the heroine, but the love interest actually accomplished things through, like, work and talent.
//I'm fine with the love interest always being portrayed as arbitrarily attractive, assumably a children's movie is going to be from the perspective of the protagonist.
 
2012-08-28 08:20:09 AM
Crappy Stereotyping.
Sells like hotcakes.
 
2012-08-28 08:33:11 AM
Twisted Eye:
Rapunzel was absolutely independent and strong! ...UNTIL the very moments when it came time for her to be saved by the Male Love Interest, then she was completely powerless, every single time.

Let's see... after they left the tower (where she had initially subdued him and knocked him out a couple of times), Rapunzel ended up rescuing Flynn at the tavern (from the thugs), rescued him at the dam (by snagging his wrist and saving him from the horse), rescued him underwater (using her hair to light the way), rescued him from being arrested by the horse by talking the horse out of it for a day, and rescued him at the tower at the end by sacrificing her own freedom.

Flynn rescued her... once, at the very end, by cutting her hair, with an extra half-point for trying to give up the crown in order to get rid of his former partners (failed). This is in addition to his major duties in the film - as a tour guide to lead her to the nearby kingdom.

Admit it - you never actually saw the movie, did you?
 
2012-08-28 09:12:35 AM
Feh
 
2012-08-28 09:46:34 AM

Nuclear Monk: As a dad, at least humor keeps the princess thing within reason.

[a1.s6img.com image 600x531]


I agree

25.media.tumblr.com

http://amymebberson.tumblr.com/tagged/Pocket%20Princesses
 
2012-08-28 10:16:17 AM

bunner: The Whore Of Mensa: Feminists want all women to be fulfilled and supported and equal, no matter WHAT life they choose.

Men want that, too. It's called "crossing your fingers and doing your best." They don't really put a gender assignment to it because it seems a bit silly to define it what way. If one waits for somebody *else* to do all that for them, though, they may have missed "equality" when perusing the Websters. It's a crapshoot and men don't have as many "options" handed to them as women seem to think


Why does it come as a surprise to people that women want ... what men want?

There aren't two categories, "people" and "women" -- just one: "people." Some of those people are men. Some are women. Some are something else, if we want to go that route. But they're all people.

The problem with "crossing your fingers and doing your best" is that there have been numerous legal barriers, and are still numerous social barriers, to doing exactly that.

Things are, much legally, better than they used to be. I don't think the laws of the state of Pennsylvania forbid women to work in various jobs, such as welders, anymore, but there used to be a list of jobs I couldn't even apply for because I'm female. Yes, a printed list. I've read it. Women are allowed to have names now; if my mother had married today, she'd be Jane Smith, not just Mrs. John Smith. Home Depot got royally sued and will now hire women for any job they're qualified for, rather than telling a female applicant "we only hire women as cashiers, not for the floor" (and that in an era when most of the men working at Home Depot couldn't tell a nail from a screw from their own gluteus maximus). And girls are not prohibited from taking shop class (do schools even still have shop classes, with all those evil nasty saws and drills and things?) no matter how much they want to. Legally, it's better. There are few cases, and growing fewer, where the sex of a person determines their status under the law; it used to be many, even most. No matter what the fatuous twits getting their lace panties in a bunch over the etymology of a word might think, that's enormous progress.

Socially, it's slowly getting there. It isn't there yet. The fact that we're having this discussion at all shows some of the progress. To some extent within my lifetime, and certainly within my parents' lifetimes, there would be no point to it: equality wasn't even in the equation. For most people, talking about it would be like talking about a color nobody had ever seen. As people of my generation, the kind of people who were told by their company's home office that they would be fired if they didn't put the real (male) manager on the phone ... and they were the (newly hired) manager! ... grow old and die, and nobody has ever experienced genuine discrimination, the problem will be lesser still. But the problem hasn't gone away completely, not yet, and the reason is simple:

Folks who put everyone into two categories, "people" and "women".

Yes, there are people who think women shouldn't have equal rights just because we're women. And there are also people who think women should have special privileges just because we're women. They're both wrong. It's the same kind of thinking in two different wrappers. The same kind of wrong thinking. The same division of everyone into two categories: "people" and "women".

And for anyone who thinks "all women" this or "all men" that, let me remind you that we're talking about overlapping bell curves. For instance, on the average, men are stronger than women. Despite this, I can beat my brother-in-law arm wrestling, because we're on different spots on our respective bell curves. He is more different in height, weight, strength, etc., from some of his male family members than he is from me. Bell curves. I'm a bit above average on mine, and he's a bit below average on his. Remember that the average person has one ball and one tit and 1.7 kids. Averages are meaningless outside a statistical environment; when you're dealing actual real people, it's individuals that count.

I'm not "women"; I'm Worldwalker. That's all I've ever wanted to be: myself. Good at what I'm good at, bad at what I'm bad at, and defined by my interests and my abilities, not by my plumbing.
 
2012-08-28 11:04:11 AM

Twisted Eye: FTA: The modern Rapunzel of "Tangled" is independent, clever and funny.

No, no, and no, what? The character was at least as stereotyped as the others. Rapunzel was absolutely independent and strong! ...UNTIL the very moments when it came time for her to be saved by the Male Love Interest, then she was completely powerless, every single time. But hey! She's strong and independent, because she can hit a guy with a frying pan! ...Yes, a frying pan. TO THE KITCHEN, GIRL!

And oh my god the Pop Country stylings in the music, ow ow ow holy shhhwait that's got nothing to do with the topic. Uh I liked the horse though!


Wrong. As I said earlier, you got the movie & character wrong. Scroll up for why.
 
2012-08-28 11:57:53 AM
My daughter likes the new Tinkerbell direct to DVD movies. I'm ok with that. She's a fairy that has a non-traditional skill set and is reasonably responsible for herself in her many adventures.

Plus, I really like that little firefly... he's got moxy.

The princess crap... she's not so interested... thank the FSM.
 
2012-08-28 11:58:30 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 500x333]

Or something else completely?


I, too, read Reddit.

/and that was a pic saved so quickly my mouse caught fire
 
2012-08-28 12:00:21 PM

Cymbal: StaleCoffee: CygnusDarius: Fark Disney.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x370]

This is why I hate peter jackson.

Princess 1: Elf that sits around being inspiration-grade pretty.

Princess 2: Parents die at 7, learns to ride a horse and stab shiat, kills the second most badass guy in the armies of shadowevilwhatever with a surprise lolz, at the same time avenging her adoptive fathers death and only gets outshone when the guy she fell in love with but turned her down shows up with an army of ghosts in pirate ships.

Arwen was not Princess 2.

To be fair, Princess 1 had DSLs, so I think they match up pretty evenly.


Plus, at the time of LOTR, Arwen was over 2700 years old. We don't know what she did in her life that was bad-ass.
 
2012-08-28 12:19:59 PM

This text is now purple: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

Aurora's mother never dies.


You'd have to watch movies catering to minorities, but aren't Mulan and Tiana's mothers both alive?
 
2012-08-28 12:56:00 PM

solaufein: Classic fairy tales, mostly:

Princess - Year of origin (mostly) followed by source in parentheses.

Snow White - 1812-1864 (Bros Grimm)
Cinderella - 1697 (Charles Perrault and older myths)
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) - 1697 (Charles Perrault and Bros Grimm)
Ariel - 1837 (Hans Christian Anderson)
Belle - 1740 (Gabrielle-Suzanne Babot de Villeneuve)
Jasmine - 9th Century (Ancient Middle East)
Pocahontas - 1613 (loosely History based)
Mulan - between 1368 and 1644 (ancient Chinese legend of Hua Mulan - 386 to 534 A.D)
Tiana - 1812-1864 Bros Grimm / E.D Baker's 2002 novel "The Frog Princess"
Rapunzel - 1698 (French tale and Bros Grimm)
Merida - 2012 (Original)

source: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Princess and http://www.wikipedia.org/ 

Only two really don't fit. Tiana (if you go with the 2002 origin) and Merida.


As soon as I saw the witch and her hut in Brave, I immediately thought of Baba Jaga. Very little correlation (old woman in a hut with magical abilities that guides the hero) but, it felt unoriginal nonetheless.
 
2012-08-28 01:03:59 PM

Slow To Return: This text is now purple: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

Aurora's mother never dies.

You'd have to watch movies catering to minorities, but aren't Mulan and Tiana's mothers both alive?


Yeah, but nobody knows who their fathers are...
 
2012-08-28 01:07:06 PM

Falcon Hunter: solaufein: Classic fairy tales, mostly:

Princess - Year of origin (mostly) followed by source in parentheses.

Snow White - 1812-1864 (Bros Grimm)
Cinderella - 1697 (Charles Perrault and older myths)
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) - 1697 (Charles Perrault and Bros Grimm)
Ariel - 1837 (Hans Christian Anderson)
Belle - 1740 (Gabrielle-Suzanne Babot de Villeneuve)
Jasmine - 9th Century (Ancient Middle East)
Pocahontas - 1613 (loosely History based)
Mulan - between 1368 and 1644 (ancient Chinese legend of Hua Mulan - 386 to 534 A.D)
Tiana - 1812-1864 Bros Grimm / E.D Baker's 2002 novel "The Frog Princess"
Rapunzel - 1698 (French tale and Bros Grimm)
Merida - 2012 (Original)

source: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Princess and http://www.wikipedia.org/ 

Only two really don't fit. Tiana (if you go with the 2002 origin) and Merida.

As soon as I saw the witch and her hut in Brave, I immediately thought of Baba Jaga. Very little correlation (old woman in a hut with magical abilities that guides the hero) but, it felt unoriginal nonetheless.


So how is Mulan a princess?
 
2012-08-28 01:43:33 PM

sid244: Nuclear Monk: As a dad, at least humor keeps the princess thing within reason.

[a1.s6img.com image 600x531]

[thewebgangsta.com image 500x422]


Tink has quite the rack...
 
2012-08-28 01:52:05 PM

peterthx: So how is Mulan a princess?


My guess is that the use of the term "princess" is meant to be interchangeable for the female lead character in one of their mainstream films. Also, when you go to the Disney wiki for princesses she is listed there. If you want to use the royal terminology only, be my guest. But under those standards (until the end of the films in most cases): Snow White does not qualify, Belle does not qualify, Mulan does not qualify, and Tiana does not qualify. Makes for a somewhat boring list. But again, I'm just using what Disney recognizes as their "princesses".
 
2012-08-28 02:00:36 PM

Falcon Hunter: As soon as I saw the witch and her hut in Brave, I immediately thought of Baba Jaga. Very little correlation (old woman in a hut with magical abilities that guides the hero) but, it felt unoriginal nonetheless.


I can see where that impression might come from, but upon looking at the information on Baba Yaga/Jaga/Roga/Rota/etc., I think the closest similarities are that "The Witch" is old and looks like crone/hag, as well as she acts as (from the wikipedia entry): "her role is in supplying the hero (sometimes unwillingly) with something necessary to further his quest." Aside from that, IMHO, not many other similarities are there.
 
2012-08-28 02:11:50 PM

El Dudereno: jst3p: WhippingBoy: You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.

TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:

I am that overweight guy with a hot wife. I do dumb stuff sometimes too, but she always forgives me.

/getting a kick, etc.


"HOmer didn't u eat the forbidden doughnut"??
www.acmearchivesdirect.com
 
2012-08-28 02:32:48 PM

WhippingBoy: Slow To Return: This text is now purple: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

Aurora's mother never dies.

You'd have to watch movies catering to minorities, but aren't Mulan and Tiana's mothers both alive?

Yeah, but nobody knows who their fathers are...


What? Protecting her father was Mulan's entire reason for going into the army, you twit.
 
2012-08-28 02:44:03 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: WhippingBoy: Slow To Return: This text is now purple: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

Aurora's mother never dies.

You'd have to watch movies catering to minorities, but aren't Mulan and Tiana's mothers both alive?

Yeah, but nobody knows who their fathers are...

What? Protecting her father was Mulan's entire reason for going into the army, you twit.


--> Joke


--> Your Head
 
2012-08-28 04:02:26 PM
The old fairy tales were written to give hope to children who had no hope. Their society was static: a kid's parents were either serfs or nobles, so the only upwardly-mobile way that a girl could escape a lifetime of drugdery was for some knight or prince to whisk her away (in that era of instability, there were plenty of armed men on horseback). Bloody murder, rape, robbery and pillage were common then, so figured into these stories. Little girls grew up hoping/thinking that "somehow things will get better", and little boys aspired to heroics. It worked then.
 
2012-08-28 04:13:49 PM

WhippingBoy: Keizer_Ghidorah: WhippingBoy: Slow To Return: This text is now purple: brigid_fitch: And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

Aurora's mother never dies.

You'd have to watch movies catering to minorities, but aren't Mulan and Tiana's mothers both alive?

Yeah, but nobody knows who their fathers are...

What? Protecting her father was Mulan's entire reason for going into the army, you twit.

--> Joke


--> Your Head


Yo mama!

/never leave a straight line lay.
 
2012-08-28 07:06:44 PM

Moonk: sid244: Nuclear Monk: As a dad, at least humor keeps the princess thing within reason.

[a1.s6img.com image 600x531]

[thewebgangsta.com image 500x422]

sunuva...., shoulda refreshed first


Great minds think alike.
 
2012-08-28 10:07:56 PM
What, no one's posted the prince charming / insatiable whore comic yet? 

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-29 10:09:28 AM

jst3p: Masterstuff: So Brave was an Original idea? As in wasn't directly related to some fairy tale?

I said that I would only watch Disney movies if it had an original story... looks like i'll have to find this in one of the theaters that show old movies around here.

Isn't Toy Story original? I hope so because those are pretty cool movies.


No, sadly it wasn't. It was actually based on a true story, but the real story had dildos and other assorted sex toys, so Disney had to clean it up a bit for the kids.
 
2012-08-30 04:20:38 PM

Oznog: brigid_fitch: SphericalTime: However, some of their recent princesses are great symbols. Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.

And the first Disney Princess whose mother is still alive.

But, yeah, Brave was definitely a departure from the Disney formula and more relatable to a LOT of kids. "See, Mom's really just looking out for you and does love you. Please don't turn her into a bear."

[imgs.mi9.com image 850x637]

I always thought it was MAJOR weird that her only explanation was "well, when I was a little girl, a witch put a spell on me", and it'd be broken somehow by a proper kiss, which is an unusual condition to leave in a form of harm thrown at someone. And left it at that. It's odd, it's the whole premise for her character and necessary to explain her character, but it's an absurdly vague backstory. And the audience just suspended questioning there, I think assuming that it would be explained more further on, then forgetting about it. Until IIRC they started patching that canon hole in later movies.

Not to say Shrek wasn't a great movie. Just weird that you can say "a wizard did it" and not be obligated to explain it for real.


I disagreed with the ending of Shrek. I enjoyed the message through the movie that people (well, you know) from different backgrounds could be together. Of course, when she turns Ogre, the message changes to "it's better if you're the same." I'm not the first guy to yell racism, but that was a downer of a message in a movie.
 
2012-08-30 06:37:58 PM

Oznog: I always thought it was MAJOR weird that her only explanation was "well, when I was a little girl, a witch put a spell on me",


Screamin' Jay approves.
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-30 06:41:41 PM

Mike Chewbacca: T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.

Yeeeeaaaaah, not so much.

/"It's the lionesses' job to do the hunting."


I'm aware of lions, but my point is that genetic roles exist in the animal kingdom. In primates (humans included), its one way... In the cat word, its another way... but its roles nevertheless, not stereotypes.
 
2012-08-30 07:59:41 PM

Mike Chewbacca: T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.

Yeeeeaaaaah, not so much.

/"It's the lionesses' job to do the hunting."


Has anyone mentioned that Nala & Simba are probably half-siblings?

/ewwww
 
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