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(CTNow)   Disney Princesses: Classic Fairy Tales Or Gender Stereotypes?   (ctnow.com) divider line 379
    More: Amusing, Disney Princess, gender stereotypes, Disney, George Takei, Sleeping Beauty, Aladdin, princess, Brothers Grimm  
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13565 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2012 at 3:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-27 07:38:38 PM  
Bored people problems. Get a farking job.

/ or, boring people problems
// not sure
 
2012-08-27 07:39:34 PM  
Not Disney, but I like Chel from "The Road to El Dorado." There is a Stephen Lynch song that adequately sums up my feelings.
 
2012-08-27 07:39:36 PM  

SphericalTime: Merida from Brave is an awesome example, her storyline was basically, "You don't need a man to do awesome stuff and control your own destiny. " I loved the fact that she didn't even have a love interest.


This.
 
2012-08-27 07:41:26 PM  
Other non-Disney princesses
t0.gstatic.com
blog.blockbuster.com
th03.deviantart.net
moonprincess.com
 
2012-08-27 07:43:10 PM  

Oznog:

Ever read the original Grimm's Fairy Tales? They've got some truly horrific things going on in them. There seems to be a notably different tone, to prepare kids for nightmares of reality. The kind of thing stories now have sterilized out of them.


Yes :) I have read a few of them. I feel disappointed by the show on tv. However, "Once Upon a Time" is interesting and dark.

I come from an Indo-Hindu background and love the creepy, evil tales of the Lords and Devils of Hinduism. Not as dark as Grimm, but still more "real" than Disney and many stories made for children.
 
2012-08-27 07:44:21 PM  

jst3p: TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:


This has been my experience.

Fat bastard, wife is HOOOOTTTTTT
 
2012-08-27 07:44:53 PM  

WhippingBoy: Dreamless: WhippingBoy:
You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.
Disney cartoons portray talking animals. We'd better put a stop to this lest children grow up and spend all their time trying to get the family dog to talk.

Surely you are not equating the obviously magical elements of the story with the ostensibly realistic ones?

fark, it bothers me when they anthropomorphize the animals in stereotypical ways too.

Obviously magical vs. ostensibly real? I'm not sure my 6-year old daughter is mature enough to make a distinction between the two in every single case.
Perhaps you shouldn't watch children's media any more. You seem to be having quite a difficult time with it.


Really? Because my four-year old nephew understands that some things are not real. Maybe your daughter had the misfortune of inheriting your obtuseness.
 
2012-08-27 07:45:11 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: jst3p: TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:

This has been my experience.

Fat bastard, wife is HOOOOTTTTTT


I may have heard wrong, but didn't they wind up divorcing at the end of the series?
 
2012-08-27 07:50:56 PM  

texdent: The Stealth Hippopotamus: jst3p: TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:

This has been my experience.

Fat bastard, wife is HOOOOTTTTTT

I may have heard wrong, but didn't they wind up divorcing at the end of the series?


Stealth Hippo and his wife are real people, not just characters in a show there for your enjoyment!
 
2012-08-27 07:52:30 PM  

Dreamless: WhippingBoy: Dreamless: WhippingBoy:
You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.
Disney cartoons portray talking animals. We'd better put a stop to this lest children grow up and spend all their time trying to get the family dog to talk.

Surely you are not equating the obviously magical elements of the story with the ostensibly realistic ones?

fark, it bothers me when they anthropomorphize the animals in stereotypical ways too.

Obviously magical vs. ostensibly real? I'm not sure my 6-year old daughter is mature enough to make a distinction between the two in every single case.
Perhaps you shouldn't watch children's media any more. You seem to be having quite a difficult time with it.

Really? Because my four-year old nephew understands that some things are not real. Maybe your daughter had the misfortune of inheriting your obtuseness.


My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.
 
2012-08-27 07:55:25 PM  
funny-scenes.com
 
2012-08-27 07:55:35 PM  

WhippingBoy: My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.


That is good. Better still if she hasn't internalized any of that nonsense.
 
2012-08-27 07:56:53 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Stealth Hippo and his wife are real people, not just characters in a show there for your enjoyment!


Whoa there big fella. I can be. I'm a whore, I'm just not a cheap whore.
 
2012-08-27 07:57:59 PM  
Don't worry. If you spoon feed your little girl every possible post-feminist party like ever, over and over, until she can recite with the properly affected sneer and she STILL grows up to be a mommy and learns to bake cookies, don't worry. You didn't fail. She just started thinking for herself. Ditto for astronaut. : )
 
2012-08-27 07:58:49 PM  
party LINE *never took typing*
 
2012-08-27 07:59:28 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I May Be Crazy But...: Stealth Hippo and his wife are real people, not just characters in a show there for your enjoyment!

Whoa there big fella. I can be. I'm a whore, I'm just not a cheap whore.


Then I think it's time for some negotiation!
 
2012-08-27 08:01:27 PM  

bunner: Don't worry. If you spoon feed your little girl every possible post-feminist party like ever, over and over, until she can recite with the properly affected sneer and she STILL grows up to be a mommy and learns to bake cookies, don't worry. You didn't fail. She just started thinking for herself. Ditto for astronaut. : )


If she wants to bake cookies, good for her. It's nice to have options.
 
2012-08-27 08:03:53 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Classic fairy tales ARE gender stereotypes, in case nobody ever noticed before.


THIS

And the tale of of useless, unwanted youngest children.
 
2012-08-27 08:06:27 PM  

bunner: The Whore Of Mensa: She responds, no, that's okay, I'm going to go home to my village and do nothing with my life.*

Yep. That's the message for girls that I'm NOT crazy about.

Isn't that what feminism was about? Doing what you please with your life even if others think it's not important?


You can do anything you want, as long as it's not be a homebody, I guess.
 
2012-08-27 08:07:50 PM  

Oznog: jst3p: Masterstuff: So Brave was an Original idea? As in wasn't directly related to some fairy tale?

I said that I would only watch Disney movies if it had an original story... looks like i'll have to find this in one of the theaters that show old movies around here.

Isn't Toy Story original? I hope so because those are pretty cool movies.

NOTHING is "original" if you look at it hard enough. Star Wars is a typical "Hero's Journey" layout. Its concept for space battles was copying WWII nosecam footage, which wasn't well-known at the time because The History Channel wouldn't start airing every known frame of it in a continuous loop for another 20 years. The trench scene was a pretty shameless ripoff of an obscure WWII movie called Dambusters, like shot-for-shot. There's some video online of how Indiana Jones was a ripoff of an old black-and-white adventure movie, again, so shot-for-shot it's nearly plagiarized.


I assume by blackandwhite adventure movie, you meant to say panel for panel from a Scrooge McDuck comic.
 
2012-08-27 08:11:24 PM  
Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.
 
2012-08-27 08:15:33 PM  

Dreamless: WhippingBoy: My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.

That is good. Better still if she hasn't internalized any of that nonsense.


Christ, are you for real? I feel sorry for you if this is what your life is like...
 
2012-08-27 08:16:00 PM  
See, here's the malarkey. Here's the con. Here's the "pick up that flag and march to the sea or you are a traitor!" BS. - "You can't bake cookies AND be an astronaut!" Yes, you can.
 
2012-08-27 08:20:16 PM  
No one's mentioned Henry Giroux yet?

The Mouse That Roared: Disney and the End of Innocence

I think parents are more aware now than they used to be about monitoring what their kids watch (and talking about it with them), and Disney has gotten a little less stereotypey in its character creation over the past decade or so, but childlike innocence (however dishonest that idea may be) is a commodity that Disney has packaged and sold for decades.
 
2012-08-27 08:22:44 PM  

WhippingBoy: Dreamless: WhippingBoy: My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.

That is good. Better still if she hasn't internalized any of that nonsense.

Christ, are you for real? I feel sorry for you if this is what your life is like...


I would ask if you were for real, but I know already that you have trollish tendencies. Is everything really face-value for you? Are all humans perfectly self-interested cognitive agents? Do you not believe in an unconscious mind? Do you not think that subtle messages can have affects on greater society? Do you not appreciate nuance? Are you utterly dependent on ad hominem attacks?

You would seek to deride me for my persistence, but I'm not arguing with myself, am I?
 
2012-08-27 08:27:14 PM  
A Disney Princess must satisfy the following requirements:
1. Be a princess
2. Be in a Disney movie

Fact: Disney is the US distributor for Princess Mononoke
Assertion: Princess Mononoke is a Disney movie. Says so right at the start

Fact: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a princess. Says so right in the movie title.

Conclusion: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a Disney Princess.

images.paraorkut.com
This is San. She's just fished a bullet from her mother's shoulder.

With her teeth.

San does not hide from her adversary in the forest with seven men of subaverage height and questionable motives. Sanwill use the forest to mount a guerilla campaign to kill any of her adversary's retainers who venture out of the safety of the stronghold.

San does not suffer the abuses of petty step-siblings. Her siblings are two meter tall white wolves. They do what San says. Or else.

San does not judge her worth based on her marriageability, political connections or her relative attractiveness. San judges her worth based on her body count.

San does not wait passively for her prince to save her. San infiltrates a heavily armed compound and attacks her adversary at close range with a knife.

San will not alter who she is for her man. San would rather returned to her devastated homeland and attempt to rebuild than forget who she is and follow him as an obedient wife.

San could take all the other Disney princesses herself. At once. Including Jasmine's tiger.

San. The Princess Disney doesn't want to talk about.
 
2012-08-27 08:28:26 PM  
This whole world is based on stereotypes. It goes way beyond just gender roles. The fact companies market to the worlds preconceived notions shouldn't be misconstrued as they created them. These things have been around long before cartoons. Yes, Virginia, life existed before the internets.
 
2012-08-27 08:30:22 PM  
My parents raised me and my brothers the same way. We had legos and hot wheels and stuffed animals, and a few dolls handed down by my mom. I was never much a girl to play with dolls. I ran around riding bikes, playing tag, and generally discovering interesting things outdoors most of the time anyways. I never got read any cute, sweet fairy tales. Instead, at age 4,my mom played me (record player) the no holds barred version of Baba Yaga. Because what 4 year old doesn't want to think there's an iron tooth witch faster than the air with a taste for human flesh?
 
2012-08-27 08:31:18 PM  
We just bought another Disney dress yesterday bringing the total to four. Merida, Snow White, Belle and now Rapunzel.

My girl says it's a Princess's job to wear pretty dresses. How could I argue with that?
 
2012-08-27 08:40:24 PM  

RsquaredW: Better than the guys version.

1) be rich and good looking
2) be rich and good looking
3) be rich and good looking cursed to be ugly until good looking again
4) be rich and good looking
5) pretend to be rich and good looking
6) be rich and good looking
7) be as be swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire; mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

Quick, name the movies!


FTFY
 
2012-08-27 08:41:32 PM  

T.M.S.: We just bought another Disney dress yesterday bringing the total to four. Merida, Snow White, Belle and now Rapunzel.

My girl says it's a Princess's job to wear pretty dresses. How could I argue with that?


Clearly you are raising a slave to fashion and she is doomed to become nothing more than a dull housewife with no ambition or drive of her own, you evil patriarchal oppressor.

The bigger question is whether her Princess Barbie dolls are clad or unclad. My niece has a toy box full of Princess Barbies, every one naked as the day they came out of the mold. All this about Barbie being a bad role model is only true if all little girls grow up to become nudists, I guess.
 
2012-08-27 08:46:57 PM  

Bontesla: Are you kidding me?

Of course the Disney universe is based off of stereotyping.

I loooooooove Disney movies but there's some insane stuff in the films. Remember Beauty and the Beast? If you love your absuive boyfriend enough - you can turn your beast into a man, too. He locked her in a room, was physically aggressive, withheld meals, and threatened to murder her father unless she obeyed.


Mmm ... I do love a bad boy!
 
2012-08-27 08:51:29 PM  

Gyrfalcon: T.M.S.: We just bought another Disney dress yesterday bringing the total to four. Merida, Snow White, Belle and now Rapunzel.

My girl says it's a Princess's job to wear pretty dresses. How could I argue with that?

Clearly you are raising a slave to fashion and she is doomed to become nothing more than a dull housewife with no ambition or drive of her own, you evil patriarchal oppressor.

The bigger question is whether her Princess Barbie dolls are clad or unclad. My niece has a toy box full of Princess Barbies, every one naked as the day they came out of the mold. All this about Barbie being a bad role model is only true if all little girls grow up to become nudists, I guess.


No interest in Barbie. Only 3. But if she did have one I figure it would resemble what Frank Zappa termed "Snot Woman".
 
2012-08-27 08:54:56 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: crzybtch: Well I for one would appreciate more realistic kids movies where the characters look like regular people and are focused on for their intelligence, wit and abilities.
I grew up on all that Disney princess crap and felt completely inferior as a tomgirl stuck in a boyish body with buck teeth and bad skin. I could get caught up in the dream of finding Mr. Wonderful one day only to have reality set in and realize that was for the petite pretty girls, not for a homely kid like me. Imagination and fantasy is fine but making kids feel like they will never measure up is just not cool. I would have been so much better off with movies where every girl didn't look beyond perfect and whose happy ending didn't always include Mr. Wonderful coming to "rescue" her. I also think boys deserve the same.

Disney tried....


[freeimagesarchive.com image 349x372]
Tink


[www.virginmedia.com image 431x300]
The chick on the left


[www.demotivationalposters.org image 640x484]
Eilonwy

So.. out of three tomboys who can kick ass in their own right, only one is human :\ :( They got better in the 90s with making female characters who could stand up for themselves and weren't just waiting for Mr. Right.


I must be really farkin old because I have no idea who the last one was? But I did like the animal characters...and Tink is cool, but she just made me mad that I couldn't fly! And well that I could never have her tiny waist and big boobs. (Hate to admit that at 50 I still wish I could fly...lol....well and a tiny waist and big boobs wouldn't hurt)
 
2012-08-27 08:56:20 PM  

Oznog: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x326]

Had better female characters than Tolkien.


I don't care how many people say "Your Highness" was stupid, I still love it.
 
2012-08-27 08:56:53 PM  

jst3p: WhippingBoy: You may not have noticed, but popular children's media tends of have unrealistic portrayals of everyone and everything.

TV has taught me I can be an overweight white guy who constantly lies to my hot smart wife but she will always forgive me:


I am that overweight guy with a hot wife. I do dumb stuff sometimes too, but she always forgives me.

/getting a kick, etc.
 
2012-08-27 08:57:12 PM  

waffle299: A Disney Princess must satisfy the following requirements:
1. Be a princess
2. Be in a Disney movie

Fact: Disney is the US distributor for Princess Mononoke
Assertion: Princess Mononoke is a Disney movie. Says so right at the start

Fact: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a princess. Says so right in the movie title.

Conclusion: San, the Princess Mononoke, is a Disney Princess.

[images.paraorkut.com image 500x702]
This is San. She's just fished a bullet from her mother's shoulder.

With her teeth.

San does not hide from her adversary in the forest with seven men of subaverage height and questionable motives. Sanwill use the forest to mount a guerilla campaign to kill any of her adversary's retainers who venture out of the safety of the stronghold.

San does not suffer the abuses of petty step-siblings. Her siblings are two meter tall white wolves. They do what San says. Or else.

San does not judge her worth based on her marriageability, political connections or her relative attractiveness. San judges her worth based on her body count.

San does not wait passively for her prince to save her. San infiltrates a heavily armed compound and attacks her adversary at close range with a knife.

San will not alter who she is for her man. San would rather returned to her devastated homeland and attempt to rebuild than forget who she is and follow him as an obedient wife.

San could take all the other Disney princesses herself. At once. Including Jasmine's tiger.

San. The Princess Disney doesn't want to talk about.


Pretty sure Disney didn't write the story, come up with the storyline, etc.
 
2012-08-27 08:57:41 PM  
Tinkerbell 
collegecandy.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-27 09:02:19 PM  

T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.


No, I want to be the Witch Queen with an entire castle of handsome peasant men at my disposal.

They'd look so cute in their loincloths and collars.
 
2012-08-27 09:11:24 PM  

Dreamless: WhippingBoy: Dreamless: WhippingBoy: My daughter understands that the "gender roles" portrayed in Disney cartoons are not real.

That is good. Better still if she hasn't internalized any of that nonsense.

Christ, are you for real? I feel sorry for you if this is what your life is like...

I would ask if you were for real, but I know already that you have trollish tendencies. Is everything really face-value for you? Are all humans perfectly self-interested cognitive agents? Do you not believe in an unconscious mind? Do you not think that subtle messages can have affects on greater society? Do you not appreciate nuance? Are you utterly dependent on ad hominem attacks?

You would seek to deride me for my persistence, but I'm not arguing with myself, am I?


I feel sorry for you because every experience and special moment you'll ever have will first need to be passed through your feminist lens to make sure it's appropriate and subscribes to your own limited world view.
 
2012-08-27 09:18:48 PM  

T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.


Yeeeeaaaaah, not so much.

/"It's the lionesses' job to do the hunting."
 
2012-08-27 09:19:36 PM  

Oznog:
Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies.


Boy, if she liked Alien, she probably loved the climactic scene in Aliens. A brave knight saves a young maiden from a hideous dragon...and all three...the knight, the maiden and the dragon...are female. Only two men even peripherally involved, and both are incapacitated...one isn't even technically a man.

/and I guess she likes The Sound of Music, Black Narcissus and every other movie set in a convent
 
2012-08-27 09:23:33 PM  
There is not pleasing the ballbusters, so don't bother trying.
 
2012-08-27 09:24:19 PM  

MBooda: The Sound of Music,


Wasn't that about a no talent nun, with the liberal arts finesse to sing songs, and play guitar, and babbysit, who married a rich guy and have like 8 kids with out having to actually have sex?
*PRINCESS*
 
2012-08-27 09:24:49 PM  

WhippingBoy: feel sorry for you because every experience and special moment you'll ever have will first need to be passed through your feminist lens to make sure it's appropriate and subscribes to your own limited world view.


I thought when you had to make sure that every single thing you did has to pass approval of a world view that was taught to you, that that was being oppressed. I guess it's different if it's taught to you by other women.
 
2012-08-27 09:26:25 PM  

ronaprhys: San. The Princess Disney doesn't want to talk about.

Pretty sure Disney didn't write the story, come up with the storyline, etc.


Pretty sure that does not matter in the least to people who pick the DVD up off the dedicated Disney section, or get it from the Disney Channel. They wouldn't even touch it if it were not a Disney flick

/Why yes, I do hate Disney with every fiber of my being
//But not for what you think. It's for what they did to the Pinnochio Blu-ray.
 
2012-08-27 09:29:10 PM  

vudukungfu: MBooda: The Sound of Music,

Wasn't that about a no talent nun, with the liberal arts finesse to sing songs, and play guitar, and babbysit, who married a rich guy and have like 8 kids with out having to actually have sex?
*PRINCESS*


Ah but she talks with the Mother Superior! And usually, about something other than Capt. von Trapp! Passes the Bechdel Test!
 
2012-08-27 09:30:47 PM  

texdent: Tinkerbell 
[collegecandy.files.wordpress.com image 322x322]


1.bp.blogspot.com

Tinkerbell had hips.
 
2012-08-27 09:32:23 PM  

MBooda: Oznog:
Bechdel Test notes the problem, that two women talking almost NEVER occurs in movies.

Boy, if she liked Alien, she probably loved the climactic scene in Aliens. A brave knight saves a young maiden from a hideous dragon...and all three...the knight, the maiden and the dragon...are female. Only two men even peripherally involved, and both are incapacitated...one isn't even technically a man.

/and I guess she likes The Sound of Music, Black Narcissus and every other movie set in a convent


If I ever have the opportunity to write a movie (which I won't), I'd like to troll with one of the following
1) Have two women discuss the Bechdel test
2) Have the only scene that would pass muster be them talking about "The President" with no pronouns used for said office the entire film. This way, anyone who claims it fails the Bechdel Test is projecting traditional gender role stereotypes in direct conflict with the ideas they claim to hold.

The goal of #2 obviously being to watch Tumblr implode.
 
2012-08-27 09:36:50 PM  

T.rex: Newsflash, every girl in the world wants a Prince Charming to come take care of her.... It has nothing to do with Disney. Its called genetics. Same types of roles exist in the animal kingdom.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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