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(io9)   Bill Nye: "Creationism is not Appropriate for Children"   (io9.com) divider line 118
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3860 clicks; posted to Video » on 27 Aug 2012 at 11:48 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-27 11:45:12 AM  
Love that guy.
 
2012-08-27 11:48:48 AM  
Ironic?

::sigh::
 
2012-08-27 11:50:43 AM  
If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.

Seeing as most witches are just slightly less annoying than vegans, I am kind of on the fence about that.
 
2012-08-27 11:51:09 AM  
Yeah, don't really get the tag. How is this ironic again? it's a scientist speaking his mind, in a very expected way.
 
2012-08-27 11:53:28 AM  

dickkead: Yeah, don't really get the tag. How is this ironic again? it's a scientist speaking his mind, in a very expected way.


I don't know maybe because those that argue for creationism have the reasoning skills and intellectual honesty of children?
 
2012-08-27 11:59:22 AM  

mr_bunny: If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.


img705.imageshack.us

I don't see a down side.
 
2012-08-27 12:09:17 PM  

Slam Dunkz: dickkead: Yeah, don't really get the tag. How is this ironic again? it's a scientist speaking his mind, in a very expected way.

I don't know maybe because those that argue for creationism have the reasoning skills and intellectual honesty of children?


I think it's because creationism, and religion in general, only survives if you persuade children of its truth before they have a solid logical foundation. If Nye got his way, no one would believe it in a few generations.
 
2012-08-27 12:11:49 PM  

Snapper Carr: mr_bunny: If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.

[img705.imageshack.us image 500x371]

I don't see a down side.


That is the prettier side of the bell curve, to be sure.
 
2012-08-27 12:15:10 PM  

mr_bunny: If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.

Seeing as most witches are just slightly less annoying than vegans, I am kind of on the fence about that.


Actually, it wasn't just Christianity.

Pythagoras felt that certain concepts of mathematics weren't meant for "common knowledge", for example, and consider even Democritus, who was what, 300 years before Christianity?

Much of what was "discovered" by Omar Khayyám was also shunned in the Islamic world, although you could argue that was more due to his poetry than his math.

Anyway, I agree with Bill 100%... We can't allow this mysticism such a foothold in public education. Any publicly funded educational institution which teaches any of this mythology as 'fact' or even something to consider should have its federal funding yanked. It's in clear violation of the First Amendment.
 
2012-08-27 12:16:14 PM  
Also, you don't want scientists to interrupt your bible studies classes, so conversely don't interrupt a science class with your bible studies.

It's only fair. Because then pirates and noodles, if not.

/I have seen classes where the two mix very well. The science behind temple tricks and miracles, but those were voluntary.
 
2012-08-27 12:16:16 PM  

unchellmatt: mr_bunny: If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.

Seeing as most witches are just slightly less annoying than vegans, I am kind of on the fence about that.

Actually, it wasn't just Christianity.

Pythagoras felt that certain concepts of mathematics weren't meant for "common knowledge", for example, and consider even Democritus, who was what, 300 years before Christianity?

Much of what was "discovered" by Omar Khayyám was also shunned in the Islamic world, although you could argue that was more due to his poetry than his math.

Anyway, I agree with Bill 100%... We can't allow this mysticism such a foothold in public education. Any publicly funded educational institution which teaches any of this mythology as 'fact' or even something to consider should have its federal funding yanked. It's in clear violation of the First Amendment.


Yet you completely gloss over the witch plague that the Catholic church saved mankind from.
 
2012-08-27 12:17:27 PM  
he's right; teaching creationism to the young is tantamount to child abuse.
 
2012-08-27 12:19:53 PM  
deGrasse Tyson / Nye 2012!
 
2012-08-27 12:20:27 PM  

mr_bunny: Yet you completely gloss over the witch plague that the Catholic church saved mankind from.


Hey, I've run across plenty of Wiccans and they're annoyingness, so the Church gets credit from me for jack shiat.
 
2012-08-27 12:21:29 PM  
It's so since that we can land robots on other planets while back on Earth creationism and anti-vacc loons run wild.
 
2012-08-27 12:22:17 PM  

mr_bunny: If it were not for Christianity we would have flying cars and cities on the Moon, but the world would be over run with witchcraft.


I'm okay with that.

Just as long as we keep separation of Coven and State.
 
2012-08-27 12:22:50 PM  

mr_bunny:

Yet you completely gloss over the witch plague that the Catholic church saved mankind from.


That wasn't glossing over. That was willfully ignoring something that didn't exist, M'laddo. Certainly Christianity was better than the previous superstitions around Europe, but one can hardly call that some sort of "plague", nor did the Catholic church save us from one. I'm rather curious as to what "plague" you're referring to, since I have yet to hear of one. However, certainly I'm open to correction, of course.
 
2012-08-27 12:24:06 PM  

dickkead: Yeah, don't really get the tag. How is this ironic again? it's a scientist speaking his mind, in a very expected way.


Sorry guys, submitted while I was un-caffinated & still half asleep.. my bad.
 
2012-08-27 12:25:56 PM  
The internet isn't appropriate for children either, but that is where the science guy's main presence is (when it isn't up Ed Begley's ass).
So what is his point? Only talk about what is appropriate? Pretend that other views don't exist? That isn't education, that is indoctrination, and is just as bad as teaching something with no scientific validity at all.
i.imgur.com
Sit-N-Spin, Sanford. You may know science, but you don't know dick about raising and educating kids.
 
2012-08-27 12:30:30 PM  

unchellmatt: mr_bunny:

Yet you completely gloss over the witch plague that the Catholic church saved mankind from.

That wasn't glossing over. That was willfully ignoring something that didn't exist, M'laddo. Certainly Christianity was better than the previous superstitions around Europe, but one can hardly call that some sort of "plague", nor did the Catholic church save us from one. I'm rather curious as to what "plague" you're referring to, since I have yet to hear of one. However, certainly I'm open to correction, of course.


Perhaps this will help clear it up for you....
 
2012-08-27 12:34:32 PM  

Balchinian: Pretend that other views don't exist?


If those views are wrong, yeah, as in completely rooted in superstition, ignorance and wholesale rejection of science and reason, yeah, no point in exposing a young mind to them.

Creationism is just religion by another name. It's not science, scientists don't look at the world and just say "a wizard in the sky made it that way!".

It's not a valid alternative to evolution, and it is misleading and intellectually fraudulent to present it as such.
 
2012-08-27 12:37:21 PM  
Does anybody else think in the semi-profile second shot of Bill he looks kind-a Abe Lincoln like?
 
2012-08-27 12:39:24 PM  
Playing devil's advocate (not subby):

Because Bill Nye is the spokesman for the science faithful and not a real scientist?
 
2012-08-27 12:40:26 PM  
I am also quite sick of hearing this oft repeated lie about how other celestial bodies do not revolved around Earth.

I watch the stars every night and they are revolving around us. Those liars should be burned alive.
 
2012-08-27 12:40:29 PM  
SHOW IT TO ME
i1105.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-27 12:41:50 PM  

Balchinian: The internet isn't appropriate for children either, but that is where the science guy's main presence is (when it isn't up Ed Begley's ass).
So what is his point? Only talk about what is appropriate? Pretend that other views don't exist? That isn't education, that is indoctrination, and is just as bad as teaching something with no scientific validity at all.
[i.imgur.com image 75x80]
Sit-N-Spin, Sanford. You may know science, but you don't know dick about raising and educating kids.


i105.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-27 12:43:16 PM  
creationism should be reserved for the super devoted like that whole xenu-volcano-dc9 thing is with scientology... like, you're super indoctrinated - here's our crackpot theory for the beginning of time... ya know, leave the rest of us folks out of this stuff
 
2012-08-27 12:43:47 PM  

Joe Peanut: deGrasse Tyson / Nye 2012!


Be still my beating heart!
 
2012-08-27 12:45:09 PM  

Pawn takes the King: dickkead: Yeah, don't really get the tag. How is this ironic again? it's a scientist speaking his mind, in a very expected way.

Sorry guys, submitted while I was un-caffinated & still half asleep.. my bad.


You're forgiven, only because I'm glad I got to see the video.
 
2012-08-27 12:45:39 PM  

Balchinian: The internet isn't appropriate for children either, but that is where the science guy's main presence is (when it isn't up Ed Begley's ass).
So what is his point? Only talk about what is appropriate? Pretend that other views don't exist? That isn't education, that is indoctrination, and is just as bad as teaching something with no scientific validity at all.

Sit-N-Spin, Sanford. You may know science, but you don't know dick about raising and educating kids.


So, science should be responsible for religious doctrination?
 
2012-08-27 12:47:00 PM  

Mr.Tangent: SHOW IT TO ME


Wtf is wrong with you!!! I almost spit coffee all over my work station.
 
2012-08-27 12:59:18 PM  

Silverstaff: Balchinian: Pretend that other views don't exist?

If those views are wrong, yeah, as in completely rooted in superstition, ignorance and wholesale rejection of science and reason, yeah, no point in exposing a young mind to them.

Creationism is just religion by another name. It's not science, scientists don't look at the world and just say "a wizard in the sky made it that way!".

It's not a valid alternative to evolution, and it is misleading and intellectually fraudulent to present it as such.


But my point is that you can't not mention it at all and call what you are doing education. Whether it is valid or not, it is a widely held belief and kids are going to be exposed to it. Best to present it to them along with everything else in a teaching environment, where you are hopefully also teaching them how to tell the difference between something that is empirically verifiable and something that is not. One of the interesting things I see when looking at Christian schools is that most of them make a point of teaching both creationism and evolution. The kids end up understanding the foundations of both, regardless of what they end up believing in the end. That seems to me to be a more complete education than one which prevents kids from understanding a particular belief and its foundational principles, even if those principles are not scientific.

Look, you have to provide kids with knowledge of bad science in order to help them be able to identify good science more readily. You can't just pretend bad science doesn't exist. This is no different. You have to teach it. It is something that scientists have to deal with every day, and to pretend it isn't an issue is to cover up the truth rather than to teach the truth. That, to me, is not education any more than a Christian school which only teaches creationism is education.
 
2012-08-27 01:03:56 PM  
Oddly enough, I grew up in a traditional, Christian household and never once was taught that science was all lies compared to the bible. While this video interview is getting a lot of billing as "Bill Nye Rips Christianity" and whatnot, his real focus is very important and more subtle: while there is nothing inherently wrong with raising children with religion, there is a major problem with hinging that religious upbringing with an explicit and diametric opposition to scientific study and understanding.

It is pretty hard to form a generation of scientists, engineers, and other technological pioneers if the basic structure of the scientific method, as well as so much of the major bodies of scientific theory are off-limits. It is one thing for a child to be ignorant and then learn about something; there is quite another when a child is exposed to a new subject but is compelled to dismiss it because it is a sin to even consider the scientific matter... one that will damn them to hell eternally.

That is just a giant anchor around the necks of the youth of such families, in terms of their participation in the modern world.
 
2012-08-27 01:04:30 PM  

Balchinian: You may know science, but you don't know dick about raising and educating kids.


WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!?!?

Really, dude. Give it a rest. You're really only proving Nye's point for him.
 
2012-08-27 01:07:49 PM  

Balchinian: You have to teach it.


You don't have to teach every wrong idea to teach how society moves past wrong ideas. You certainly don't need to add scientific credibility to non-scientific fiction by teaching it as workable theory, especially when the non-scientific fiction necessarily invalidates many scientifically rigorous fields of study (geology, anthropology, astrophysics, immunology, biology...).
 
2012-08-27 01:08:52 PM  

Balchinian:
Look, you have to provide kids with knowledge of bad science in order to help them be able to identify good science more readily. You can't just pretend bad science doesn't exist. This is no different. You have to teach it. It is something that scientists have to deal with every day, and to pretend it isn't an issue is to cover up the truth rather than to teach the truth. That, to me, is not education any more than a Christian school which only teaches creationism is education.


So in order to teach people about something you must also teach them all the things it is not? Unless you are just talking about Christian Creationism, which makes you weirdly centered on a specific story while ignoring literally thousands of others. There is enough to teach just teaching the things that are true without having to teach all the things that are not.
 
2012-08-27 01:08:54 PM  
It's not enough to teach kids that science is right.
Teach them that religion is wrong.

\yeah, that'll go over well.
 
2012-08-27 01:25:07 PM  
I can see what Balchinian is saying.

Philosophy and History cannot be studied effectively without learning about religion in the process. We had religious superstitions long before we had science. If one wishes to be a proper scholar, one need to understand what religion is, its role in history, along with benefits it provided and the harm it caused.

/may not be a bad idea in a country where majority of the population is religious
 
2012-08-27 01:25:34 PM  
Why can't we be like the world of Westeros and just kill those who appose or threaten us? Dead (wo)men tell no tales.

/lost in a book fantasy reality
//I'll get over it
 
2012-08-27 01:26:59 PM  

mr_bunny: unchellmatt: mr_bunny:

Yet you completely gloss over the witch plague that the Catholic church saved mankind from.

That wasn't glossing over. That was willfully ignoring something that didn't exist, M'laddo. Certainly Christianity was better than the previous superstitions around Europe, but one can hardly call that some sort of "plague", nor did the Catholic church save us from one. I'm rather curious as to what "plague" you're referring to, since I have yet to hear of one. However, certainly I'm open to correction, of course.

Perhaps this will help clear it up for you....


DOH! I gleefully stand corrected.

This is aimed at me:

web.mit.edu
 
2012-08-27 01:29:08 PM  

Kuta: It's not enough to teach kids that science is right.
Teach them that religion is wrong.

\yeah, that'll go over well.



Creationism is wrong. Although creationism is an exclusively sectarian religious belief, is not the same thing as "religion." It is possible for a person to be religious without being a creationist. If you, personally, require a literal interpretation of Genesis (which is the foundation of creationism) in order for you to consider your religion valid, I'm sorry for you, but you are mistaken. Most religious people do not interpret Genesis literally, and therefore have no problem acknowledging the validity of modern science. If I was a religious person, I would not be happy at your attempt to tar all believers with the brush of creationism.

But I'm not a believer, so I'll leave that particular critique to others.
 
2012-08-27 01:47:06 PM  

pdv37: I can see what Balchinian is saying.

Philosophy and History cannot be studied effectively without learning about religion in the process. We had religious superstitions long before we had science. If one wishes to be a proper scholar, one need to understand what religion is, its role in history, along with benefits it provided and the harm it caused.


The problem is that the argument isn't "Should we teach kids creationism?", but "Should we teach kids creationism in the science classroom as an acceptable alternate theory?" And even then, what Nye was talking about was specifically teaching children that evolution is wrong and creationism is right before they have the chance to intellectually approach either.

You're simply biting on concern trolling by thinking he has any kind of a point.
 
2012-08-27 01:48:51 PM  

pdv37: I can see what Balchinian is saying.

Philosophy and History cannot be studied effectively without learning about religion in the process. We had religious superstitions long before we had science. If one wishes to be a proper scholar, one need to understand what religion is, its role in history, along with benefits it provided and the harm it caused.

/may not be a bad idea in a country where majority of the population is religious


Exactly.
 
2012-08-27 02:19:08 PM  

Slam Dunkz: I don't know maybe because those that argue for creationism have the reasoning skills and intellectual honesty of children?


No. Kids, as far as I can tell, are far more intellectually honest and curious than the usual vocal creationist crowd. They're inexperienced, but generally quite willing to re-evaluate their conclusions based on new facts, especially when you get their attention by letting them run up against the flaws in their prior reasoning.

I was so proud of my group of 6th graders last year. We were talking about the UN's declaration of human rights as it applies to kids. During the discussion, I let them see photos of the Greensboro sit-in, and that iconic water fountain photo. They were, to a person, utterly shocked that this level of bullying (how the class saw it; so very proud) was even possible, let alone permitted.

They demonstrated excellent reasoning (reductionist, but they really got down to the heart of the matter) throughout that discussion.
 
2012-08-27 02:28:21 PM  
i53.photobucket.com
i53.photobucket.com 

A few pictures from the Shambhala Ranch and Nelson, 2 weeks in heaven with no worries and high heat. yum!
 
2012-08-27 02:36:00 PM  

Balchinian:
Look, you have to provide kids with knowledge of bad science in order to help them be able to identify good science more readily. You can't just pretend bad science doesn't exist. This is no different. You have to teach it. It is something that scientists have to deal with every day, and to pretend it isn't an issue is to cover up the truth rather than to teach the truth. That, to me, is not education any more than a Christian school which only teaches creationism is education.


Should we teach the kids bad mathematics as well?
 
2012-08-27 04:16:17 PM  

lunkhed: Should we teach the kids bad mathematics as well?


I sometimes do, partially so kids can see what happens when bad math falls apart, partially so they can see how math (particularly stats) can be abused to persuade them to do things not in their interests, and partially to keep them on their toes. (I don't let them leave the lesson without the 'punchline' in any case.)
 
2012-08-27 04:17:31 PM  

Balchinian: Pretend that other views don't exist?


Not all views are equally valid. Teaching Creationism is child abuse.
 
2012-08-27 04:19:22 PM  
Teaching macro evolution is fact is like looking at a 1000 piece puzzle with 995 pieces missing. Not only can't you explain how the puzzle got there, but without the picture on the box, you would not know what the end result is supposed to be.
 
2012-08-27 04:27:47 PM  

Balchinian: The internet isn't appropriate for children either, but that is where the science guy's main presence is (when it isn't up Ed Begley's ass).
So what is his point? Only talk about what is appropriate? Pretend that other views don't exist? That isn't education, that is indoctrination, and is just as bad as teaching something with no scientific validity at all.


I'll give you a hint, listen to me carefully.

There are no other views.

That evolution happens is not even up for debate. That micro and macro evolution happen are not even up for debate. We have mountains, and mountains, and mountains of evidence to support the fact that evolution does happen.

How it happens is the "Theory of Evolution", which includes natural selection and genetic variation and a host of other things. If you'd like to propose a scientifically testable alternative theory that will stand up to the brutality of scientific examination and error checking then there's a laundry list of awards waiting for you if you survive that gauntlet.
 
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