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(Boulder Daily Camera)   Boulder physics professor wants to cancel classes if a student has a concealed weapons permit, saying it would dampen classroom debate. Because everyone knows gunfights often break out during physics debates   (dailycamera.com) divider line 164
    More: Dumbass, concealed weapons, Daily Camera, physics professor, Colorado Supreme Court, students, professors  
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3506 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 6:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-25 09:41:26 PM

rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?


THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.
 
2012-08-25 09:43:31 PM
A gun would help with the "shooting at a monkey" example.
 
2012-08-25 09:45:33 PM

Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.


Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"
 
2012-08-25 09:51:09 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"


As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.
 
2012-08-25 09:53:30 PM

People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.


Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, everyone straps a bomb on their chest and we try to have a civil conversation? I don't think so.
 
2012-08-25 09:56:32 PM

Spirit Hammer: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.


Interesting. I would have thought you could lose your concealed-carry permit for that.
 
2012-08-25 09:58:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"


It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.
 
2012-08-25 10:03:46 PM

MisterMook: People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.

Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The ans ...


Interesting philosophy, if a bit naive.
I carry a gun, because cops are too heavy.
There are people in this world who will hurt or kill you, and your loved ones.
You can take responsibility for their safety on yourself, or give it to others.
You have made your choice, and I hope it works for you.
Mine works for me.
 
2012-08-25 10:06:22 PM

fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.


Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.
 
2012-08-25 10:08:01 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.

Interesting. I would have thought you could lose your concealed-carry permit for that.


Possibly,but it is "concealed" meaning not shown until needed. To date, it has never been needed, and hopefully never will. But, like a fire extinguisher, or a life insurance policy, If I need it, I have it.
 
2012-08-25 10:12:17 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.

Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Again, it depends on the state. In Texas, it's a felony. In Kansas, it's a misdemeanor with a $50 fine the first time. Generally, if you're in a state where signs have the force of law, it carries a similar penalty to trespassing and you will eventually lose your permit. In states where signs do not, you won't.
 
2012-08-25 10:14:25 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.

Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


If those signs magically stopped bad guys from carrying guns, then I would agree. However it seems that criminals don't obey laws, or signs, either.
Go figure.
 
2012-08-25 10:17:03 PM

MBK: Back in my freshman year of college, I was in one of my many English classes, and we were discussing this short story/poem about young women and beauty.

Something about how "one little comment will send me over the edge, into anorexia or worse" or something like that. A typical "white woman in her early 20s problem" poem.

I made a comment about "If one little comment can send her into the extreme of anorexia or worse, how is she going to deal with criticism later in life?"

Then this girl (this class had a 3:1 female to male ratio) said "Obviously, you aren't a female".

To which I replied "Obviously I'm not. What gave it away?"

Now, if she had a concealed weapon, she would have shot me dead. SHOT ME DEAD. And people would have applauded.

That is how intense English poetry discussions are.


God, I hated those uptight biatches.
 
2012-08-25 10:19:12 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?
 
2012-08-25 10:27:30 PM
Going to be now.
'night farkers.
It's been fun.
 
2012-08-25 10:28:07 PM
Crap.
"BED"
 
2012-08-25 10:33:12 PM
Guns put an end to debate. That is, in fact, the whole point of guns. And that is the point the perfesser is making.

Besides, if you feel the need to carry a gun to class, why don't you be bootstrappy and get into a better school?

It's not worth 1000 accidental shooting for one mass murderer to get taken out by a hero.
 
2012-08-25 10:38:04 PM

wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?


If it requires a permit, it's not a right.
 
2012-08-25 10:59:53 PM
I had a girlfriend I lived with for 11 years. She is a sheriff's deputy in Southern California. I would not allow her to bring here service weapon in the house, it stayed in garage in her car. She hated carrying concealed off duty. She didn't want to be a cop off duty, and we certainly felt very safe in ou community. She did carry pepper spray when she carried a bag.
 
2012-08-25 11:08:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?

If it requires a permit, it's not a right.


It can still be a right, just one that's been infringed upon.
 
2012-08-25 11:16:37 PM

Spirit Hammer: Gyrfalcon: Spirit Hammer: Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.

I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.

If you have extinguishers in every room of the house...yeah, I'd say that's an irrational response to fear of fire.

Had a house fire once, and lost everything including 3 pets and a family friend who was trapped upstairs.
Lots of burning takes place between the call for help and the arrival of the FD.


But I'm not sure why you only have one in each room and not two. What if the fire is on the opposite side of the room from where you are? I sure hope you have at least equipped all of your non-first floor windows with escape ladders that can be rolled out when needed.
 
2012-08-25 11:20:21 PM

SapperInTexas: Texas Concealed Handgun holder here. Here's food for thought, although granted it's one piece of anecdotal data. This is my response to everyone who thinks every argument will escalate into a gunfight.

I've found that when I'm carrying, I stay calmer, more alert, and less likely to go flying off the handle. Maybe it's because I know the TX legal system that will back me up if it turns out I was justified in pulling my gun, but also that I will be drawn and quartered in the courts if they can prove that I drew my pistol unprovoked.

Maybe it's something about not jumping to anger and escalating straight to deadly force, because there's no way to easily de-escalate that kind of situation once you've introduced the gun. It really is the last resort, and there's no 'take-backs' or 'do-overs'. I take that very seriously.

The fact is the laws for crimes committed while carrying a concealed weapon, especially as a permit holder, are more stringent and the punishments more severe. I take my freedom very seriously, and make a conscious effort to stay that way by behaving in a civil and responsible manner.

It's kind of a hard concept to put into words, but maybe I can oversimplify by saying that my pistol reminds me not to be a jackass.


That may all be true, or it may be a little like your buddy swearing he drives better after he's had a few.
 
2012-08-25 11:21:59 PM

MisterMook: People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.

Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The ans ...


If you have a penis, you're a potential criminal. You can rape someone, flash someone, molest someone. If you have a car, you're a potential criminal. You can run someone over, drive drunk, speed. If you have a pocketknife, you're a potential criminal. You can stab someone, slash someone's tires, break into a locker.

See, I can make stupid generalizations too.
 
2012-08-25 11:22:58 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.


www.pilbarageology.com.au

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick
 
2012-08-25 11:24:52 PM

wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?

If it requires a permit, it's not a right.

It can still be a right, just one that's been infringed upon.


OK, I dodged your question. Honestly, I think carrying a weapon in public should be a privilege, and the qualifications should be high. The 2nd Amendment is outdated.
 
2012-08-25 11:29:38 PM

Spirit Hammer: draa: remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

The Secret Service has the best trained gunman in the world and even they couldn't stop Reagan from being shot. All this bullshiat about more guns being the answer just shows how stupid the entire conservative movement has become. REAGAN WAS STILL SHOT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PROTECTED BY HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS. That a fact.. The rest is bullshiat.

Hinkley was an insane gunman focused on killing Regan, and was willing to die to get it done, and he was shut down, almost instantly.
On the other hand, the Aurora gunman got off over 116 shots, injuring 58 and killing 12 and he was unopposed.
Someone shooting back might have changed that. Sure it was dark, but HE could see to shoot, so why assume that no one else could?


Because teargas, asshole.

Don't you think, with all the concealed permits that are around, that if carrying made people so much safer, we'd hear stories about a random gun carrying stopping a disaster or massacre or robbery or what have you more than once every never?
 
2012-08-25 11:31:50 PM
I know I feel safe when a paranoid gun nut is close by.
 
2012-08-25 11:32:04 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Anybody who defies them is a nut case who shouldn't be allowed to own a salad-shooter, let alone a gun.
 
2012-08-25 11:32:13 PM

platedlizard: HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.

[www.pilbarageology.com.au image 417x703]

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick


William Buckland would approve.

//too obscure?
 
2012-08-25 11:33:18 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Prank Call of Cthulhu: As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.

This, surely, is the Boulder faculty's real fear. I wouldn't want a gun anywhere on campus while I was handing back test scores or grades.


As someone who just finished grad school there and knows a bunch of factory, this is a whole heck of a lot of it.

Sure, a rule isn't going to stop someone who is set on a premeditated massacre. But no faculty wants to be thinking "gee, which students are carrying?" when passing back papers, or having a discussion that could maybe rub a few kids the wrong way.

If you want to discuss grades, you are required by FERPA to meet the student in person, in private. Or at least, you can't talk over email. I failed a student who then wanted to meet to discuss why he failed. I remember being slightly worried about having to meet with him alone when I didn't know him very well and who knows how upset he was. If I were still there, I'd be slightly more worried.

A school should be able to say "no guns here." If the state of Colorado wants to tell CU they must allow concealed carry, they should chip in more than 3% of the school's budget.
 
2012-08-25 11:35:31 PM

Novart: I know I feel safe when a paranoid gun nut is close by.


Me too. Nothing allows me to go about my day confident in my safety like knowing a hundred million morons who watched too many Die Hard movies are allowed to pack heat.
 
2012-08-25 11:37:52 PM

Dafatone: BarkingUnicorn: Prank Call of Cthulhu: As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.

This, surely, is the Boulder faculty's real fear. I wouldn't want a gun anywhere on campus while I was handing back test scores or grades.

As someone who just finished grad school there and knows a bunch of factory, this is a whole heck of a lot of it.

Sure, a rule isn't going to stop someone who is set on a premeditated massacre. But no faculty wants to be thinking "gee, which students are carrying?" when passing back papers, or having a discussion that could maybe rub a few kids the wrong way.

If you want to discuss grades, you are required by FERPA to meet the student in person, in private. Or at least, you can't talk over email. I failed a student who then wanted to meet to discuss why he failed. I remember being slightly worried about having to meet with him alone when I didn't know him very well and who knows how upset he was. If I were still there, I'd be slightly more worried.

A school should be able to say "no guns here." If the state of Colorado wants to tell CU they must allow concealed carry, they should chip in more than 3% of the school's budget.


Does FERPA permit a sheet of bullet-resistant glass between teacher and student?
 
2012-08-25 11:42:14 PM

RickyWilliams'sBong: Me too. Nothing allows me to go about my day confident in my safety like knowing a hundred million morons who watched too many Die Hard movies are allowed to pack heat.


Look up the statistics - even in "wacky" places like Texas, the concealed-carry permit holders are vastly under-represented in all categories of felonies, both violent and non-violent (neglecting, of course, the laws which it's impossible for a non-CHL holder to break in the first place).

http://concealedguns.procon.org/sourcefiles/sturdevant.pdf
 
2012-08-25 11:44:17 PM

Harry_Seldon: platedlizard: HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.

[www.pilbarageology.com.au image 417x703]

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick

William Buckland would approve.

//too obscure?

Where shall we our great Professor inter
That in peace may rest his bones?
If we hew him a rocky sepulchre
He'll rise and break the stones
And examine each stratum that lies around
For he's quite in his element underground

 
2012-08-25 11:57:03 PM

MisterMook: The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot.


A story about an "idiot" who carried a firearm to "defend himself".
 
2012-08-26 12:10:09 AM
Government employees with government issued weapons = (1) perp shot, (9) innocent wounded

Granny with shotgun against three perps = no fatalities and three arrests

Professor must the guy in the Bozo wig, midriff t-shirt and mascara running into bicycle racers on Flagstaff Hill today during the Pro Challenge Stage 6.
 
2012-08-26 12:44:58 AM

SapperInTexas: Texas Concealed Handgun holder here. Here's food for thought, although granted it's one piece of anecdotal data. This is my response to everyone who thinks every argument will escalate into a gunfight.

I've found that when I'm carrying, I stay calmer, more alert, and less likely to go flying off the handle. Maybe it's because I know the TX legal system that will back me up if it turns out I was justified in pulling my gun, but also that I will be drawn and quartered in the courts if they can prove that I drew my pistol unprovoked.

Maybe it's something about not jumping to anger and escalating straight to deadly force, because there's no way to easily de-escalate that kind of situation once you've introduced the gun. It really is the last resort, and there's no 'take-backs' or 'do-overs'. I take that very seriously.

The fact is the laws for crimes committed while carrying a concealed weapon, especially as a permit holder, are more stringent and the punishments more severe. I take my freedom very seriously, and make a conscious effort to stay that way by behaving in a civil and responsible manner.

It's kind of a hard concept to put into words, but maybe I can oversimplify by saying that my pistol reminds me not to be a jackass.


I agree. I have an Unrestricted Carry permit in New York, which is extremely difficult to get. Just getting the Target/Hunting permit was a PITA enough, but you have to prove a need to carry concealed here. When I'm carrying, When I'm carrying, I definitely am on my best behavior, because acting the fool gets that permit taken away, often permanently. I've had a lot of training, and practice regularly, because if I ever have to use it, it had better be clear-cut.

As for carrying on campus, this is a double-edged sword. Someone posted earlier that it would depend on the school itself, contrasting between a smaller facility in a low-crime area versus a larger campus in a more active area. In some ways, the opposite might be true. People are people no matter where they study, and a hothead with an agenda could just as easily be in the sleepy cowtown college as well as the urban university. In the latter, there is a higher probability they would have either a campus police force or be close enough for the metro force to respond, while the former may have nothing more than a receptionist and a janitor with a Mag-Lite (my old school at night). Which one would you feel safer at?

I'm not saying that CCW holders are THE solution to mass killers, but they should at least be considered a small part. More important would be for the powers-that-be to follow up on complaints and concerns about persons displaying dangerous behaviors, and not be so concerned about getting sued because they felt there was a possible threat. If it's legal for a student to carry a weapon concealed, then the professor should honor his contract regarding holding classes, period.
 
2012-08-26 01:31:49 AM
"Because everyone knows gunfights often break out during physics debates"

All well and good, but I'm pretty sure that gunfights never break out during physics debates with no guns in the classroom. Last I checked, "never" > "not often."
 
2012-08-26 02:12:16 AM

Eponymous: Atypical Person Reading Fark:
Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.

I don't think you really understand the purpose of the permit.

/I'll cut you some slack since you've taught college. Evidently, you don't have what it takes to cut it in the real world.


Why, are concealed carry permit holders legally obligated to carry a firearm at all times?
 
2012-08-26 03:50:21 AM

Gordon Bennett: Eponymous: Atypical Person Reading Fark:
Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.

I don't think you really understand the purpose of the permit.

/I'll cut you some slack since you've taught college. Evidently, you don't have what it takes to cut it in the real world.

Why, are concealed carry permit holders legally obligated to carry a firearm at all times?


No, apparently Atypical Person Reading Fark doesn't seem to understand that the whole point of the permit is to allow one to carry a gun, if you can have a permit but not a gun than the permit is pointless.

Although some states require that if you have a permit that you carry the permit at all times, even if you are not carrying a firearm.
 
2012-08-26 06:18:04 AM

redlegrick: As for carrying on campus, this is a double-edged sword. Someone posted earlier that it would depend on the school itself, contrasting between a smaller facility in a low-crime area versus a larger campus in a more active area. In some ways, the opposite might be t ...


The thing that always confuses me about "no carry on campus" is why people think it would be such a problem, if it isn't a problem for the larger city. After all, many states have CCW permits. People can and do have those permits (and some presumably carry) not just in rural areas, but big cities. Phoenix, Denver, Houston, Philadelphia, Jacksonville, all are in states with shall-issue CCWs. This means you have people carrying guns in places with lots of other people like malls, grocery stores, and so on. There are not mass shooting all the time by these CCW holders (look at the media frenzy on shootings, you'd know if there were).

Why then do we assume that campus would be the one place this would be different? That is what I don't get about the hysteria. This idea that somehow university is this special place where tempers flare to epic proportions seen nowhere else and people would kill each other left and right if they had guns.

Working for a university, I just don't buy it. Heck we have far LESS violent crime than the rest of the city. Biggest crimes on campus, by far, are bike theft, under age drinking (shocker), and marijuana use (another shocker). We do not have tons of fist fights breaking out all the time, they are quite rare in fact.

Also perhaps people don't know but universities, at least all the ones I've seen, have no security to keep guns off campus. It isn't like some high schools where they have metal detectors and search people. The campus I work on is about 400 acres in size (between the main campus and ancillary areas). There is no border, no barrier, you just walk, bike, or drive on and off at your pleasure, no security. The "no guns" rule is one that is on your honor to obey, nobody checks.

I just don't get the big deal people make of it. If you truly feel scared by the idea of guns on campus by CCW holders, then you probably would want to move out of the state that grants shall-issue CCWs because there are people with guns in other places around you, you just don't know it.
 
2012-08-26 06:55:47 AM

RickyWilliams'sBong: Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x252]


i hate you
/BS econ
//still laughing
 
2012-08-26 07:41:59 AM

MisterMook: Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, ever ...



Well, how bout I give you a choice?

www.common-sense-politics.org
 
2012-08-26 09:42:00 AM
Boulder, CO - last outpost of the USSR....
 
2012-08-26 09:44:10 AM
Here in Atlanta we have stories about the students at Georgia Tech being victims of violent crime once or twice a month. Why? Maybe because the thugs from the housing projects next door KNOW that their victims are unarmed. It's not rocket science people.
 
2012-08-26 10:40:06 AM
Hey, I have an idea!

Maybe this physics professor, who is clearly a genius, should consider canceling class if any student is flagged as a threat from a PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE.

You know, because PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILES document all sorts of things about individuals, vs. A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT.

This is farking stupid and so are the people who are so ignorant with their mocking of gun owners.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a republican, I'm not a democrat...I'm a freethinker who agrees with republicans on some things and democrats on other things, instead of swallowing everything my opinion leaders tell me to. You know, because anyone who has the stupidity to tell me one side is ALWAYS right 100% of the time is a blind chump. Ultimately republicans and democrats are 2 sides of the same coin and people who don't realize this have only themselves to blame for the state of our country.
 
2012-08-26 10:57:30 AM

People_are_Idiots: MisterMook: Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, ever ...


Well, how bout I give you a choice?


As a Liberal, I would want my daughter to have the condom. It is the fairest of the three. It allows the innocent rapist to get what he wants, my daughter to be safe, and helps me look good to my Conservative friends by reducing spending on police responses. An all around win-win-win. Of course since she make less than 250% of the poverty line, I would expect the government to buy it for her.
 
2012-08-26 01:53:54 PM

Dear Jerk: Besides, if you feel the need to carry a gun to class, why don't you be bootstrappy and get into a better school?


Because, currently, there is only about one person in the world who does the kind of research I am interested in. I am getting my PhD in his lab, in Detroit. I've had people try to mug and carjack me. I've been attacked by dogs.
We all make sacrifices, mine is doing my research in a shiatty part of town.

The Detroit police were proud to announce that they got their average response time to "priority" 911 calls down to under 30 minutes, and then they restricted what would be considered "priority" in the future so that they could try to trim the response time further. If somebody is only trying to break in, or has broken in and already hurt you, you are not a priority to the police anymore. People have died here waiting hours for 911 to send out the cops.

We are on our own, in a city that is ranked among the most violent places in the world year after year.
 
2012-08-26 02:10:49 PM

MisterMook: I don't want any cop with a gun inside anywhere I'm at. I don't know any of you and I don't trust any of you, and no one should be forced to disarm themselves to feel safe just because some jackass feels paranoid in the philosophy class.


Fixed that right up for you.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
.
slowfacts.files.wordpress.com
And yes, I have multiple of both guns shown in that second picture
 
2012-08-26 02:21:46 PM
So armed civilians add two more accidental deaths to an already flawed system. You must be so proud.
 
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