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(Boulder Daily Camera)   Boulder physics professor wants to cancel classes if a student has a concealed weapons permit, saying it would dampen classroom debate. Because everyone knows gunfights often break out during physics debates   (dailycamera.com) divider line 164
    More: Dumbass, concealed weapons, Daily Camera, physics professor, Colorado Supreme Court, students, professors  
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3510 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 6:11 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-25 04:20:22 PM
"The physics professor -- who has said he simply wants his students to feel safe to engage in discussions that could become controversial -- reiterated that the presence of guns in his classroom "would destroy the learning environment."

I would love to know what this guy is teaching!
 
2012-08-25 04:24:56 PM
Ok class, today let's discuss high velocity assault weapons and accuracy

caughtinthemiddleman.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-25 04:35:51 PM

hackhix: "The physics professor -- who has said he simply wants his students to feel safe to engage in discussions that could become controversial -- reiterated that the presence of guns in his classroom "would destroy the learning environment."

I would love to know what this guy is teaching!


Ballistics?
 
2012-08-25 04:41:48 PM
"...and then during discussion, Tyffiney started arguing for 26 dimension string theory. Prof. Peterson had already told the biatch 3 times that it doesn't account for massless fermions, so I had to draw on the biatch so she'd shut up."
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-08-25 04:43:38 PM
Back in my freshman year of college, I was in one of my many English classes, and we were discussing this short story/poem about young women and beauty.

Something about how "one little comment will send me over the edge, into anorexia or worse" or something like that. A typical "white woman in her early 20s problem" poem.

I made a comment about "If one little comment can send her into the extreme of anorexia or worse, how is she going to deal with criticism later in life?"

Then this girl (this class had a 3:1 female to male ratio) said "Obviously, you aren't a female".

To which I replied "Obviously I'm not. What gave it away?"

Now, if she had a concealed weapon, she would have shot me dead. SHOT ME DEAD. And people would have applauded.

That is how intense English poetry discussions are.
 
2012-08-25 04:48:02 PM
If someone is carrying concealed, how's he going to know?
 
2012-08-25 04:49:37 PM
"...Then Prof. Peterson got up in my face and said 'You idiot, bosons are massless!'. Last month, I would have punched his ass out, but last week he told us if we were carrying he was going to carry too and he's been open carrying a 45 with a 17 round magazine so I just sat down. He shot Tyffiney in the kneecap and then we started our in class exercises on gauge theory."
 
2012-08-25 04:56:43 PM
I used to teach college biology, we used to have spirited debates regarding evolution vs. creationism. Not that it would ever devolve into gunplay, but I certainly wouldn't want a firearm in class.
 
2012-08-25 05:07:40 PM
Well, I'd suspect that he might mention that the universe is older than 6000 years, which for some students, is worth a shootin'.

My job is worse (I teach evolution; also a class on sex - always lots of calmness there).

I too would not want a firearm in class (have had them in class, have had an armed student threaten another student - about both an opinion and about his own cheating; cops ultimately dealt with it; not a safe learning environment).

Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.
 
2012-08-25 05:07:40 PM
Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.
 
2012-08-25 05:08:49 PM

namegoeshere: If someone is carrying concealed, how's he going to know?


I'm picturing myself with one of those metal detector wands the TSA uses.
 
2012-08-25 05:12:25 PM

Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.


Well, some very anal people attend school. They might not like the fact that you confused course and coarse. Would they shoot you over it? It's a lot like road rage, and here, there are road rage shootings almost weekly. They would occur with or without permits.
 
2012-08-25 05:57:14 PM
He's got it backwards- the classroom needs more guns, not less. Gun-saturated environments keep everyone on level ground, so no one has an advantage. This type of gun saturation is the reason there is never any violence inside gangs.
 
2012-08-25 06:13:55 PM
Jeez, in physics, I learned how to build a hovercraft cheaply. If there was a gun in class, our teacher would take us to the rifle range and show off Newton's laws.
 
2012-08-25 06:15:07 PM
Sure he can refuse to teach. The university can refuse to pay him a paycheck or benefits too and should if he refuses.

/ guns make him feeeeel icky
// yucky, yucky guns, ooooooh
 
2012-08-25 06:15:55 PM

namegoeshere: If someone is carrying concealed, how's he going to know?


As I am actually going to CU, this whole thing makes me laugh. If it's concealed, who knows it's there?

Engineering students don't care. As long at it doesn't mess with their homework time.
 
2012-08-25 06:16:31 PM
There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.
 
2012-08-25 06:17:21 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: I too would not want a firearm in class (have had them in class, have had an armed student threaten another student - about both an opinion and about his own cheating; cops ultimately dealt with it; not a safe learning environment).


At which university where licensed students are permitted to carry firearms on campus did this incident occur?
 
2012-08-25 06:17:42 PM
I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.
 
2012-08-25 06:18:26 PM

Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.


But if another Cho shows up, you'll have an Old WestTM shootout with lots of innocents killed in the crossfire, as opposed to simply getting lined up and executed. Sure they'll be just as dead, but it's better that the nutter executes them than someone accidentally get shot in the crossfire.

/ or something like that that I learnt on ABC
 
2012-08-25 06:18:37 PM

Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.


Opposition to allowing licensed individuals to legally carry concealed firearms through a "shall-issue" based permit system is a faith-based measure. Supporting data, while convenient if available, is ultimately secondary to what opponents "know in their hearts" to be true.
 
2012-08-25 06:18:50 PM

the_innkeeper: namegoeshere: If someone is carrying concealed, how's he going to know?

As I am actually going to CU, this whole thing makes me laugh. If it's concealed, who knows it's there?

Engineering students don't care. As long at it doesn't mess with their homework time.


side, the engineer will just make a sentry gun anyhow
 
2012-08-25 06:19:05 PM
Speaking as someone who had a fight break out in his college physics course, I'm getting a kick out of this headline subby.

/Apparently one guy hassled another guy's date at the Brownian dance
 
2012-08-25 06:19:26 PM

namegoeshere: If someone is carrying concealed, how's he going to know?


The professor is actually...
scifipulse.net

/he smells gun oil.
 
2012-08-25 06:22:17 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: What the hell is boulder physics?


img594.imageshack.us

It's taught in the Fashion Department. Has to do with development of new, stronger clothing materials.
 
2012-08-25 06:23:31 PM
You stupid farking people deserve this bullshiat.
 
2012-08-25 06:24:56 PM

Nick Nostril: Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.

But if another Cho shows up, you'll have an Old WestTM shootout with lots of innocents killed in the crossfire, as opposed to simply getting lined up and executed. Sure they'll be just as dead, but it's better that the nutter executes them than someone accidentally get shot in the crossfire.

/ or something like that that I learnt on ABC


Yes, this is why we should leave those things to the police, so that no innocent bystanders get hurt.
 
2012-08-25 06:25:13 PM

Nick Nostril: Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.

But if another Cho shows up, you'll have an Old WestTM shootout with lots of innocents killed in the crossfire, as opposed to simply getting lined up and executed. Sure they'll be just as dead, but it's better that the nutter executes them than someone accidentally get shot in the crossfire.

/ or something like that that I learnt on ABC


I am unaware of any ABC news report that concluded as you have stated. I am aware of an ABC news report that indicated that a shooter who has been informed in advance of the identity of a single armed student who has undertaken no firearms usage training will be able to target and shoot that armed student, thus proving that an armed civilian will never, under any circumstances, be able to stop an armed attacker.
 
2012-08-25 06:25:22 PM

People_are_Idiots: Jeez, in physics, I learned how to build a hovercraft cheaply


Did you fill it with eels?
 
2012-08-25 06:26:38 PM
Gun nut thread! These can be as good as poop threads.
 
2012-08-25 06:28:14 PM
I lived in Boulder for three years - the professors there would cancel a class if a caterpillar was stepped on.
 
2012-08-25 06:29:11 PM
Does this professor have a concealed pussy permit? 'Cause he needs one.
 
2012-08-25 06:29:25 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: What the hell is boulder physics?


fc05.deviantart.net
 
2012-08-25 06:30:25 PM
I don't the professor is necessarily wrong. Lots of people have short fuses, and are easily offended by small shiat. Whether someone has a concealed weapons permit isn't really the point. If someone is carrying a gun around, I would ask myself why they feel the need to. How do I know that this person is reasonable, and not likely to go off the deep end If I say something about his mother, or about how much I hate the Cowboys, or whether tea partiers are a lunatic fringe group unworthy of respect?
 
2012-08-25 06:31:14 PM

the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.


Do you need to carry a large liability insurance policy? Why do you feel the need to carry a gun to school?
 
2012-08-25 06:31:28 PM
Guns skew results.. If Schrodinger's cat was packing, do you think Schrodinger would have ever got him into the box? No way! He would have had to stuff that mouthy coont Tyffiney in there and everybody would hear her and know she was still alive. Experiment ruined.
 
2012-08-25 06:31:38 PM
Ironically - Boulder is the home of the first Promise Keepers conference. While walking down the road with two women that I worked with we were stopped by two "promise keepers" who started asking us questions. One of them didn't like the answers that one of the women was giving and asked "what does your husband say about this?". She responded "she doesn't have a problem" and grabbed the other woman and kissed her. They literally dropped to the cement and started praying.

/I like to imagine they broke their knees when they did that
 
2012-08-25 06:31:53 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark:
Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.


I don't think you really understand the purpose of the permit.

/I'll cut you some slack since you've taught college. Evidently, you don't have what it takes to cut it in the real world.
 
2012-08-25 06:34:03 PM
Newtonian thoeries do not work at the subatomic level!! String theory is flawed!!! Cover me! BANG! BANG! BANG!
 
2012-08-25 06:34:46 PM

Dimensio: Nick Nostril: Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.

But if another Cho shows up, you'll have an Old WestTM shootout with lots of innocents killed in the crossfire, as opposed to simply getting lined up and executed. Sure they'll be just as dead, but it's better that the nutter executes them than someone accidentally get shot in the crossfire.

/ or something like that that I learnt on ABC

I am unaware of any ABC news report that concluded as you have stated. I am aware of an ABC news report that indicated that a shooter who has been informed in advance of the identity of a single armed student who has undertaken no firearms usage training will be able to target and shoot that armed student, thus proving that an armed civilian will never, under any circumstances, be able to stop an armed attacker.


That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

// I kept screaming; let's try this with an equally untrained shooter and give them zero knowledge that anyone in the classroom might be carrying concealed. Now, let's watch what happens....
 
2012-08-25 06:35:56 PM

hackhix: Ok class, today let's discuss high velocity assault weapons and accuracy

[caughtinthemiddleman.files.wordpress.com image 454x338]


Wait, why would someone put a long-range scope on a short-barreled Galil? That makes no sense.
 
2012-08-25 06:36:09 PM
Hmmm... Debate, physics, science... I guess a chemistry vs physics joke might work.

www.webelements.com
 
2012-08-25 06:41:43 PM

Harry_Seldon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Do you need to carry a large liability insurance policy? Why do you feel the need to carry a gun to school?


Depends on the campus. Nice little liberal arts college in its own community in what passes for the middle of nowhere in the Northeast? Probably don't need to.

University in a bad neighborhood in a major city, especially if you have an early morning or night class? You bet I'm as armed as I legally can be.
 
2012-08-25 06:42:01 PM

Dimensio: Nick Nostril: Callous: Well none of the bloodbaths over parking spaces and road rage that the anti-gunners predicted occurred when concealed carry was legalized in all but 1 state. None of the bloodbaths the anti-gunners predicted happened when concealed carry in bars was legalized. So clearly they can't be wrong and there will be bloodbaths in the classroom over coarse material now that concealed carry has been legalized there.

But if another Cho shows up, you'll have an Old WestTM shootout with lots of innocents killed in the crossfire, as opposed to simply getting lined up and executed. Sure they'll be just as dead, but it's better that the nutter executes them than someone accidentally get shot in the crossfire.

/ or something like that that I learnt on ABC

I am unaware of any ABC news report that concluded as you have stated. I am aware of an ABC news report that indicated that a shooter who has been informed in advance of the identity of a single armed student who has undertaken no firearms usage training will be able to target and shoot that armed student, thus proving that an armed civilian will never, under any circumstances, be able to stop an armed attacker.


That is why I refuse to wear my "I am carrying a concealed weapon" sandwich board when I leave my house. I bet that throws off ABC's "findings".
 
2012-08-25 06:43:13 PM
Guns don't kill people, Physics kills people.
 
2012-08-25 06:45:02 PM
www.infobarrel.com

Actually, if you try to argue electron flow as the "correct" direction for the arrow in a circuit with an engineer, there WILL be a fight with any and all weapons within arm's reach.
 
2012-08-25 06:47:55 PM
i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-25 06:49:51 PM

State_College_Arsonist: hackhix: Ok class, today let's discuss high velocity assault weapons and accuracy

[caughtinthemiddleman.files.wordpress.com image 454x338]

Wait, why would someone put a long-range scope on a short-barreled Galil? That makes no sense.


Because it's tacticool.
 
2012-08-25 06:50:13 PM

Albert911emt: If someone is carrying a gun around, I would ask myself why they feel the need to.


To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
 
2012-08-25 06:50:43 PM
It is a good thing people don't really cling to guns and religion in this country. Otherwise, this professor's concerns would be totally baseless.
 
2012-08-25 06:54:46 PM
i151.photobucket.com

More often than you think.
 
2012-08-25 06:55:03 PM
Physics is just applied math.
 
2012-08-25 06:57:05 PM

Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.


Math is applied logic.
 
2012-08-25 07:02:42 PM
www.shardcore.org
 
2012-08-25 07:02:52 PM
The sad thing is that the right-wing nut jobs will be mentally incapable of seeing the cognitive disconnect between saying a pharmacist should not be legally required to dispense "morning after" pills and saying that a college professor should be legally required to be in the presence of armed students.
 
2012-08-25 07:05:00 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.


math is applied philo..oh I give up, someone post the relevant XKCD comic of pureness and let's move along.

/gun control is being able to hit your target.
 
2012-08-25 07:05:01 PM

Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.


Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-08-25 07:06:47 PM
hackhix

Ok class, today let's discuss high velocity assault weapons and accuracy

caughtinthemiddleman.files.wordpress.com

No box for NY pd?
 
2012-08-25 07:06:59 PM

remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

// I kept screaming; let's try this with an equally untrained shooter and give them zero knowledge that anyone in the classroom might be carrying concealed. Now, let's watch what happens....


That video has been around forever. It was made by an anti-gun group to show, well, precisely what they wanted it to show. They just managed to get it on TV when the Aurora shooting happened. I'll even let them have their contrived situation so long as I get to designate my own trained CCW: Rob Leatham a man that can draw and put six rounds on six 8-inch targets in less than 3 seconds.

Ya he's the best in the world, so what? If they can stack it with their guy, I want to stack it with mine :).
 
2012-08-25 07:07:13 PM

Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]


damn, your fast, one second and you provided. Bravo.
 
2012-08-25 07:08:07 PM

Hyjamon: Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]

damn, your fast, one second and you provided. Bravo.


You should ask my wife about it.
 
2012-08-25 07:12:19 PM
A school should be able to dictate its own firearms policy.

No, this policy won't stop someone from bringing a gun to campus or shooting people. But it turns out that many people don't want to be reminded, constantly, that hey there could be guns around.
 
2012-08-25 07:13:32 PM
Bazinga!
 
2012-08-25 07:15:02 PM

Oznog: [www.infobarrel.com image 499x348]

Actually, if you try to argue electron flow as the "correct" direction for the arrow in a circuit with an engineer, there WILL be a fight with any and all weapons within arm's reach.


I thought we were talking about REAL scientists here, not engineers.
 
2012-08-25 07:23:51 PM

phildonnia: [www.shardcore.org image 540x537]


Came in here to make sure Tycho Brahe was covered. Good job.
 
2012-08-25 07:23:58 PM

Albert911emt: I don't the professor is necessarily wrong. Lots of people have short fuses, and are easily offended by small shiat. Whether someone has a concealed weapons permit isn't really the point. If someone is carrying a gun around, I would ask myself why they feel the need to. How do I know that this person is reasonable, and not likely to go off the deep end If I say something about his mother, or about how much I hate the Cowboys, or whether tea partiers are a lunatic fringe group unworthy of respect?


It's funny, but a guy in my Con Law class would have likely caught a bullet one day when he started telling a female professor and a room full of female students OUR reasons for wanting abortions (during a Roe v. Wade discussion).

This might not be a bad thing, really; pre-empt the "F*CK YOU AND YOUR STUPID OPINIONS BLAM BLAM BLAM!" response so many people seem to have nowadays.
 
2012-08-25 07:24:52 PM
A college chancellor telling the faculty that they are going to do the job they signed up for if they expect to continue working and getting paid, while leaving their own little personal agendas at home where they belong?!

What is this I don't even...
 
2012-08-25 07:25:47 PM

TheOther: I thought we were talking about REAL scientists here, not engineers.


...
 
2012-08-25 07:26:14 PM
sounds like professer needs an education...
 
2012-08-25 07:28:26 PM

the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.


Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.
 
2012-08-25 07:31:11 PM

Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.


I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.
 
2012-08-25 07:34:09 PM

Spirit Hammer: Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.

I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.


If you have extinguishers in every room of the house...yeah, I'd say that's an irrational response to fear of fire.
 
2012-08-25 07:40:22 PM

Gyrfalcon: Spirit Hammer: Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.

I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.

If you have extinguishers in every room of the house...yeah, I'd say that's an irrational response to fear of fire.


Had a house fire once, and lost everything including 3 pets and a family friend who was trapped upstairs.
Lots of burning takes place between the call for help and the arrival of the FD.
 
2012-08-25 07:42:19 PM
I'd love to surround myself with law-abiding concealed weapon carriers, so that I wouldn't need to carry a gun. Kinda like the anti-vaxxers who rely on "herd immunity."
 
2012-08-25 07:48:55 PM

Oznog: [www.infobarrel.com image 499x348]

Actually, if you try to argue electron flow as the "correct" direction for the arrow in a circuit with an engineer, there WILL be a fight with any and all weapons within arm's reach.


Mmmm..... Tron flow vs. hole flow debate. Who cares as long as the things in the middle work.
 
2012-08-25 07:55:06 PM

LIGAFF: "...and then during discussion, Tyffiney started arguing for 26 dimension string theory. Prof. Peterson had already told the biatch 3 times that it doesn't account for massless fermions, so I had to draw on the biatch so she'd shut up."


I laughed out loud.
 
2012-08-25 07:56:22 PM
As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.
 
2012-08-25 07:59:46 PM

remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!


The Secret Service has the best trained gunman in the world and even they couldn't stop Reagan from being shot. All this bullshiat about more guns being the answer just shows how stupid the entire conservative movement has become. REAGAN WAS STILL SHOT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PROTECTED BY HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS. That a fact.. The rest is bullshiat.
 
2012-08-25 08:03:15 PM

Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]


sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-25 08:03:17 PM

sycraft: remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

// I kept screaming; let's try this with an equally untrained shooter and give them zero knowledge that anyone in the classroom might be carrying concealed. Now, let's watch what happens....

That video has been around forever. It was made by an anti-gun group to show, well, precisely what they wanted it to show. They just managed to get it on TV when the Aurora shooting happened. I'll even let them have their contrived situation so long as I get to designate my own trained CCW: Rob Leatham a man that can draw and put six rounds on six 8-inch targets in less than 3 seconds.

Ya he's the best in the world, so what? If they can stack it with their guy, I want to stack it with mine :).


Damn that guys incredible.
 
2012-08-25 08:07:31 PM

fastbow: Harry_Seldon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Do you need to carry a large liability insurance policy? Why do you feel the need to carry a gun to school?

Depends on the campus. Nice little liberal arts college in its own community in what passes for the middle of nowhere in the Northeast? Probably don't need to.

University in a bad neighborhood in a major city, especially if you have an early morning or night class? You bet I'm as armed as I legally can be.


On the other hand if guns weren't allowed on campus, and students were searched and denied entry for carrying weapons, then you wouldn't need a gun to listen to a lecture.

I don't want anyone with a gun besides a cop inside anywhere I'm at. I don't know any of you and I don't trust any of you, and no one should be forced to arm themselves to feel safe just because some jackass feels paranoid in the philosophy class. Maybe I should strap some bombs to my chest as a fail safe for heading to the grocery store?
 
2012-08-25 08:11:12 PM

Intoxoman: Damn that guys incredible.


As I said, the best in the world. If there's a better pistoleer I've never seen them. Won many, many championships. Also, a very nice guy in general which makes him so much more likable. Very friendly and almost too humble.

But hey, they want to set up a contrived test, I bet he could beat the test.
 
2012-08-25 08:13:07 PM
reiterated that the presence of guns in his classroom "would destroy the learning environment."

Maybe this would be a learning opportunity for you and your liberal friends to see how a citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment Right will not just start shooting people and will argue a point based on the facts and not his feelings!
 
2012-08-25 08:17:26 PM

draa: remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

The Secret Service has the best trained gunman in the world and even they couldn't stop Reagan from being shot. All this bullshiat about more guns being the answer just shows how stupid the entire conservative movement has become. REAGAN WAS STILL SHOT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PROTECTED BY HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS. That a fact.. The rest is bullshiat.


Hinkley was an insane gunman focused on killing Regan, and was willing to die to get it done, and he was shut down, almost instantly.
On the other hand, the Aurora gunman got off over 116 shots, injuring 58 and killing 12 and he was unopposed.
Someone shooting back might have changed that. Sure it was dark, but HE could see to shoot, so why assume that no one else could?
 
2012-08-25 08:19:33 PM
At the University of Iowa, a phyics student shot up the campus and killed several physics professors.
 
2012-08-25 08:21:45 PM
If you get to wear a concealed weapon to class, then I'll have to wear body armor because I don't trust anyone with a handgun who I do not know well. I have met waaaay too many jackasses with handgun permits to ever assume that anyone with a carry permit knows what they're doing.
 
2012-08-25 08:24:39 PM

Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]


Bingo. Nailed it. That's exactly what I was fishing for ^^
 
2012-08-25 08:42:29 PM
hackhix

Smartest
Funniest
2012-08-25 04:20:22 PM
"The physics professor -- who has said he simply wants his students to feel safe to engage in discussions that could become controversial -- reiterated that the presence of guns in his classroom "would destroy the learning environment."

I would love to know what this guy is teaching!


I have to go with the prof on this.
I have to believe it's distracting to heatedly debate someone who's packing heat
 
2012-08-25 08:43:21 PM

Krieghund: People_are_Idiots: Jeez, in physics, I learned how to build a hovercraft cheaply

Did you fill it with eels?


... you want matches?
 
2012-08-25 08:50:14 PM

MisterMook: University in a bad neighborhood in a major city, especially if you have an early morning or night class? You bet I'm as armed as I legally can be.

On the other hand if guns weren't allowed on campus, and students were searched and denied entry for carrying weapons, then you wouldn't need a gun to listen to a lecture.

I don't want anyone with a gun besides a cop inside anywhere I'm at. I don't know any of you and I don't trust any of you, and no one should be forced to arm themselves to feel safe just because some jackass feels paranoid in the philosophy class. Maybe I should strap some bombs to my chest as a fail safe for heading to the grocery store?



I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.
 
2012-08-25 08:51:12 PM

dstrick44: hackhix

Smartest
Funniest
2012-08-25 04:20:22 PM
"The physics professor -- who has said he simply wants his students to feel safe to engage in discussions that could become controversial -- reiterated that the presence of guns in his classroom "would destroy the learning environment."

I would love to know what this guy is teaching!

I have to go with the prof on this.
I have to believe it's distracting to heatedly debate someone who's packing heat


You're projecting.
Most of us can heatedly debate something without resorting to violence.
That includes stabbing with pens, pencils, hitting with book-bags, fists or whatever.
 
2012-08-25 08:55:28 PM

Spirit Hammer: Sure it was dark, but HE could see to shoot, so why assume that no one else could?


Every single person in that room was the gunman's target. It didn't matter how well he could see to shoot, he was firing into a crowd and any bullet that hit flesh was a good shot in his mind.

For someone returning fire, their target would be a single person, in a dark room, surrounded by dozens and dozens of other people, all of them starting to panic, with the flickering lights and loud sounds of the movie still going, and the air filling with teargas (making their eyes water like sonsabiches and their breathing extremely difficult).

But sure, go ahead and conflate the two.
 
2012-08-25 08:59:13 PM
Hey professor, keep your political beliefs out of the classroom.
 
2012-08-25 09:03:24 PM
What kind of physics does this crying wimpbag teach? Feathers and milk? Hoe much milk can you have if you ate 5 cocokies? If each feather weighted 0.9 grams, how many Newtons, ohh, Newton, that adorable man.
 
2012-08-25 09:03:45 PM

Lachwen: Spirit Hammer: Sure it was dark, but HE could see to shoot, so why assume that no one else could?

Every single person in that room was the gunman's target. It didn't matter how well he could see to shoot, he was firing into a crowd and any bullet that hit flesh was a good shot in his mind.

For someone returning fire, their target would be a single person, in a dark room, surrounded by dozens and dozens of other people, all of them starting to panic, with the flickering lights and loud sounds of the movie still going, and the air filling with teargas (making their eyes water like sonsabiches and their breathing extremely difficult).

But sure, go ahead and conflate the two.


Well, from various accounts, he entered from a door at the front of the theater, and I would imagine (since I wasn't there) that people would be moving away from him and not surrounding him. In fact, I would assume that he was a lone figure in the front of the theater, and the only one firing. Hunting people that were hiding under seats, etc.
You may be resigned to your position of needing others to defend you, but some of us are not.
 
2012-08-25 09:14:26 PM

Spirit Hammer: Gyrfalcon: Spirit Hammer: Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.

I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.

If you have extinguishers in every room of the house...yeah, I'd say that's an irrational response to fear of fire.

Had a house fire once, and lost everything including 3 pets and a family friend who was trapped upstairs.
Lots of burning takes place between the call for help and the arrival of the FD.


OK, I can respect that.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:23 PM
afraid of a kid with a gun? why? I bet they have an entire building or two full of chemists.
 
2012-08-25 09:24:46 PM
Texas Concealed Handgun holder here. Here's food for thought, although granted it's one piece of anecdotal data. This is my response to everyone who thinks every argument will escalate into a gunfight.

I've found that when I'm carrying, I stay calmer, more alert, and less likely to go flying off the handle. Maybe it's because I know the TX legal system that will back me up if it turns out I was justified in pulling my gun, but also that I will be drawn and quartered in the courts if they can prove that I drew my pistol unprovoked.

Maybe it's something about not jumping to anger and escalating straight to deadly force, because there's no way to easily de-escalate that kind of situation once you've introduced the gun. It really is the last resort, and there's no 'take-backs' or 'do-overs'. I take that very seriously.

The fact is the laws for crimes committed while carrying a concealed weapon, especially as a permit holder, are more stringent and the punishments more severe. I take my freedom very seriously, and make a conscious effort to stay that way by behaving in a civil and responsible manner.

It's kind of a hard concept to put into words, but maybe I can oversimplify by saying that my pistol reminds me not to be a jackass.
 
2012-08-25 09:31:29 PM
The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?
 
2012-08-25 09:38:02 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.


This, surely, is the Boulder faculty's real fear. I wouldn't want a gun anywhere on campus while I was handing back test scores or grades.
 
2012-08-25 09:41:26 PM

rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?


THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.
 
2012-08-25 09:43:31 PM
A gun would help with the "shooting at a monkey" example.
 
2012-08-25 09:45:33 PM

Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.


Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"
 
2012-08-25 09:51:09 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"


As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.
 
2012-08-25 09:53:30 PM

People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.


Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, everyone straps a bomb on their chest and we try to have a civil conversation? I don't think so.
 
2012-08-25 09:56:32 PM

Spirit Hammer: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.


Interesting. I would have thought you could lose your concealed-carry permit for that.
 
2012-08-25 09:58:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"


It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.
 
2012-08-25 10:03:46 PM

MisterMook: People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.

Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The ans ...


Interesting philosophy, if a bit naive.
I carry a gun, because cops are too heavy.
There are people in this world who will hurt or kill you, and your loved ones.
You can take responsibility for their safety on yourself, or give it to others.
You have made your choice, and I hope it works for you.
Mine works for me.
 
2012-08-25 10:06:22 PM

fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.


Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.
 
2012-08-25 10:08:01 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

As much as it requires me to obey home-made Stop signs in parking lots.
If ever required to use a weapon in such a place, the "sign" will be the least of my concerns.

Interesting. I would have thought you could lose your concealed-carry permit for that.


Possibly,but it is "concealed" meaning not shown until needed. To date, it has never been needed, and hopefully never will. But, like a fire extinguisher, or a life insurance policy, If I need it, I have it.
 
2012-08-25 10:12:17 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.

Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Again, it depends on the state. In Texas, it's a felony. In Kansas, it's a misdemeanor with a $50 fine the first time. Generally, if you're in a state where signs have the force of law, it carries a similar penalty to trespassing and you will eventually lose your permit. In states where signs do not, you won't.
 
2012-08-25 10:14:25 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.

Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


If those signs magically stopped bad guys from carrying guns, then I would agree. However it seems that criminals don't obey laws, or signs, either.
Go figure.
 
2012-08-25 10:17:03 PM

MBK: Back in my freshman year of college, I was in one of my many English classes, and we were discussing this short story/poem about young women and beauty.

Something about how "one little comment will send me over the edge, into anorexia or worse" or something like that. A typical "white woman in her early 20s problem" poem.

I made a comment about "If one little comment can send her into the extreme of anorexia or worse, how is she going to deal with criticism later in life?"

Then this girl (this class had a 3:1 female to male ratio) said "Obviously, you aren't a female".

To which I replied "Obviously I'm not. What gave it away?"

Now, if she had a concealed weapon, she would have shot me dead. SHOT ME DEAD. And people would have applauded.

That is how intense English poetry discussions are.


God, I hated those uptight biatches.
 
2012-08-25 10:19:12 PM

BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?
 
2012-08-25 10:27:30 PM
Going to be now.
'night farkers.
It's been fun.
 
2012-08-25 10:28:07 PM
Crap.
"BED"
 
2012-08-25 10:33:12 PM
Guns put an end to debate. That is, in fact, the whole point of guns. And that is the point the perfesser is making.

Besides, if you feel the need to carry a gun to class, why don't you be bootstrappy and get into a better school?

It's not worth 1000 accidental shooting for one mass murderer to get taken out by a hero.
 
2012-08-25 10:38:04 PM

wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?


If it requires a permit, it's not a right.
 
2012-08-25 10:59:53 PM
I had a girlfriend I lived with for 11 years. She is a sheriff's deputy in Southern California. I would not allow her to bring here service weapon in the house, it stayed in garage in her car. She hated carrying concealed off duty. She didn't want to be a cop off duty, and we certainly felt very safe in ou community. She did carry pepper spray when she carried a bag.
 
2012-08-25 11:08:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?

If it requires a permit, it's not a right.


It can still be a right, just one that's been infringed upon.
 
2012-08-25 11:16:37 PM

Spirit Hammer: Gyrfalcon: Spirit Hammer: Karma Chameleon: the_chief: I carried every day in class, and I never killed anybody.

Being paranoid 24-7 must really be exhausting.

I have fire extinguishers in nearly every room in my house. I must be Terrified of fire.

If you have extinguishers in every room of the house...yeah, I'd say that's an irrational response to fear of fire.

Had a house fire once, and lost everything including 3 pets and a family friend who was trapped upstairs.
Lots of burning takes place between the call for help and the arrival of the FD.


But I'm not sure why you only have one in each room and not two. What if the fire is on the opposite side of the room from where you are? I sure hope you have at least equipped all of your non-first floor windows with escape ladders that can be rolled out when needed.
 
2012-08-25 11:20:21 PM

SapperInTexas: Texas Concealed Handgun holder here. Here's food for thought, although granted it's one piece of anecdotal data. This is my response to everyone who thinks every argument will escalate into a gunfight.

I've found that when I'm carrying, I stay calmer, more alert, and less likely to go flying off the handle. Maybe it's because I know the TX legal system that will back me up if it turns out I was justified in pulling my gun, but also that I will be drawn and quartered in the courts if they can prove that I drew my pistol unprovoked.

Maybe it's something about not jumping to anger and escalating straight to deadly force, because there's no way to easily de-escalate that kind of situation once you've introduced the gun. It really is the last resort, and there's no 'take-backs' or 'do-overs'. I take that very seriously.

The fact is the laws for crimes committed while carrying a concealed weapon, especially as a permit holder, are more stringent and the punishments more severe. I take my freedom very seriously, and make a conscious effort to stay that way by behaving in a civil and responsible manner.

It's kind of a hard concept to put into words, but maybe I can oversimplify by saying that my pistol reminds me not to be a jackass.


That may all be true, or it may be a little like your buddy swearing he drives better after he's had a few.
 
2012-08-25 11:21:59 PM

MisterMook: People_are_Idiots: I personally would rather have someone who not only paid but went through the training course for concealed carry than someone who is carrying a gun illegally, shooting up the place. Just ask The people at Virginia Tech.

Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The ans ...


If you have a penis, you're a potential criminal. You can rape someone, flash someone, molest someone. If you have a car, you're a potential criminal. You can run someone over, drive drunk, speed. If you have a pocketknife, you're a potential criminal. You can stab someone, slash someone's tires, break into a locker.

See, I can make stupid generalizations too.
 
2012-08-25 11:22:58 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.


www.pilbarageology.com.au

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick
 
2012-08-25 11:24:52 PM

wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?

If it requires a permit, it's not a right.

It can still be a right, just one that's been infringed upon.


OK, I dodged your question. Honestly, I think carrying a weapon in public should be a privilege, and the qualifications should be high. The 2nd Amendment is outdated.
 
2012-08-25 11:29:38 PM

Spirit Hammer: draa: remus: That was breathtakingly funny to watch the report. So, you're saying that a professionally trained shooter with exact knowledge of who is armed in the classroom is somehow able to shoot them before they can draw? Really? Amazing!

The Secret Service has the best trained gunman in the world and even they couldn't stop Reagan from being shot. All this bullshiat about more guns being the answer just shows how stupid the entire conservative movement has become. REAGAN WAS STILL SHOT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PROTECTED BY HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS. That a fact.. The rest is bullshiat.

Hinkley was an insane gunman focused on killing Regan, and was willing to die to get it done, and he was shut down, almost instantly.
On the other hand, the Aurora gunman got off over 116 shots, injuring 58 and killing 12 and he was unopposed.
Someone shooting back might have changed that. Sure it was dark, but HE could see to shoot, so why assume that no one else could?


Because teargas, asshole.

Don't you think, with all the concealed permits that are around, that if carrying made people so much safer, we'd hear stories about a random gun carrying stopping a disaster or massacre or robbery or what have you more than once every never?
 
2012-08-25 11:31:50 PM
I know I feel safe when a paranoid gun nut is close by.
 
2012-08-25 11:32:04 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.


Anybody who defies them is a nut case who shouldn't be allowed to own a salad-shooter, let alone a gun.
 
2012-08-25 11:32:13 PM

platedlizard: HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.

[www.pilbarageology.com.au image 417x703]

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick


William Buckland would approve.

//too obscure?
 
2012-08-25 11:33:18 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Prank Call of Cthulhu: As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.

This, surely, is the Boulder faculty's real fear. I wouldn't want a gun anywhere on campus while I was handing back test scores or grades.


As someone who just finished grad school there and knows a bunch of factory, this is a whole heck of a lot of it.

Sure, a rule isn't going to stop someone who is set on a premeditated massacre. But no faculty wants to be thinking "gee, which students are carrying?" when passing back papers, or having a discussion that could maybe rub a few kids the wrong way.

If you want to discuss grades, you are required by FERPA to meet the student in person, in private. Or at least, you can't talk over email. I failed a student who then wanted to meet to discuss why he failed. I remember being slightly worried about having to meet with him alone when I didn't know him very well and who knows how upset he was. If I were still there, I'd be slightly more worried.

A school should be able to say "no guns here." If the state of Colorado wants to tell CU they must allow concealed carry, they should chip in more than 3% of the school's budget.
 
2012-08-25 11:35:31 PM

Novart: I know I feel safe when a paranoid gun nut is close by.


Me too. Nothing allows me to go about my day confident in my safety like knowing a hundred million morons who watched too many Die Hard movies are allowed to pack heat.
 
2012-08-25 11:37:52 PM

Dafatone: BarkingUnicorn: Prank Call of Cthulhu: As a physics undergraduate at University of Iowa in the early '90s, I have personal experience with at least one physics debate that ended in a gunfight. Well, maybe not so much a physics debate as a "I'm mad I didn't get an award debate." So I can kind of see where this guy is coming from.

This, surely, is the Boulder faculty's real fear. I wouldn't want a gun anywhere on campus while I was handing back test scores or grades.

As someone who just finished grad school there and knows a bunch of factory, this is a whole heck of a lot of it.

Sure, a rule isn't going to stop someone who is set on a premeditated massacre. But no faculty wants to be thinking "gee, which students are carrying?" when passing back papers, or having a discussion that could maybe rub a few kids the wrong way.

If you want to discuss grades, you are required by FERPA to meet the student in person, in private. Or at least, you can't talk over email. I failed a student who then wanted to meet to discuss why he failed. I remember being slightly worried about having to meet with him alone when I didn't know him very well and who knows how upset he was. If I were still there, I'd be slightly more worried.

A school should be able to say "no guns here." If the state of Colorado wants to tell CU they must allow concealed carry, they should chip in more than 3% of the school's budget.


Does FERPA permit a sheet of bullet-resistant glass between teacher and student?
 
2012-08-25 11:42:14 PM

RickyWilliams'sBong: Me too. Nothing allows me to go about my day confident in my safety like knowing a hundred million morons who watched too many Die Hard movies are allowed to pack heat.


Look up the statistics - even in "wacky" places like Texas, the concealed-carry permit holders are vastly under-represented in all categories of felonies, both violent and non-violent (neglecting, of course, the laws which it's impossible for a non-CHL holder to break in the first place).

http://concealedguns.procon.org/sourcefiles/sturdevant.pdf
 
2012-08-25 11:44:17 PM

Harry_Seldon: platedlizard: HotIgneous Intruder: There were physical fights among geologists in the early days of plate tectonics.

[www.pilbarageology.com.au image 417x703]

This is a geology pick. Used in a fight it is no laughing matter.

/was out digging up a mammoth today so am getting a kick

William Buckland would approve.

//too obscure?

Where shall we our great Professor inter
That in peace may rest his bones?
If we hew him a rocky sepulchre
He'll rise and break the stones
And examine each stratum that lies around
For he's quite in his element underground

 
2012-08-25 11:57:03 PM

MisterMook: The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot.


A story about an "idiot" who carried a firearm to "defend himself".
 
2012-08-26 12:10:09 AM
Government employees with government issued weapons = (1) perp shot, (9) innocent wounded

Granny with shotgun against three perps = no fatalities and three arrests

Professor must the guy in the Bozo wig, midriff t-shirt and mascara running into bicycle racers on Flagstaff Hill today during the Pro Challenge Stage 6.
 
2012-08-26 12:44:58 AM

SapperInTexas: Texas Concealed Handgun holder here. Here's food for thought, although granted it's one piece of anecdotal data. This is my response to everyone who thinks every argument will escalate into a gunfight.

I've found that when I'm carrying, I stay calmer, more alert, and less likely to go flying off the handle. Maybe it's because I know the TX legal system that will back me up if it turns out I was justified in pulling my gun, but also that I will be drawn and quartered in the courts if they can prove that I drew my pistol unprovoked.

Maybe it's something about not jumping to anger and escalating straight to deadly force, because there's no way to easily de-escalate that kind of situation once you've introduced the gun. It really is the last resort, and there's no 'take-backs' or 'do-overs'. I take that very seriously.

The fact is the laws for crimes committed while carrying a concealed weapon, especially as a permit holder, are more stringent and the punishments more severe. I take my freedom very seriously, and make a conscious effort to stay that way by behaving in a civil and responsible manner.

It's kind of a hard concept to put into words, but maybe I can oversimplify by saying that my pistol reminds me not to be a jackass.


I agree. I have an Unrestricted Carry permit in New York, which is extremely difficult to get. Just getting the Target/Hunting permit was a PITA enough, but you have to prove a need to carry concealed here. When I'm carrying, When I'm carrying, I definitely am on my best behavior, because acting the fool gets that permit taken away, often permanently. I've had a lot of training, and practice regularly, because if I ever have to use it, it had better be clear-cut.

As for carrying on campus, this is a double-edged sword. Someone posted earlier that it would depend on the school itself, contrasting between a smaller facility in a low-crime area versus a larger campus in a more active area. In some ways, the opposite might be true. People are people no matter where they study, and a hothead with an agenda could just as easily be in the sleepy cowtown college as well as the urban university. In the latter, there is a higher probability they would have either a campus police force or be close enough for the metro force to respond, while the former may have nothing more than a receptionist and a janitor with a Mag-Lite (my old school at night). Which one would you feel safer at?

I'm not saying that CCW holders are THE solution to mass killers, but they should at least be considered a small part. More important would be for the powers-that-be to follow up on complaints and concerns about persons displaying dangerous behaviors, and not be so concerned about getting sued because they felt there was a possible threat. If it's legal for a student to carry a weapon concealed, then the professor should honor his contract regarding holding classes, period.
 
2012-08-26 01:31:49 AM
"Because everyone knows gunfights often break out during physics debates"

All well and good, but I'm pretty sure that gunfights never break out during physics debates with no guns in the classroom. Last I checked, "never" > "not often."
 
2012-08-26 02:12:16 AM

Eponymous: Atypical Person Reading Fark:
Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.

I don't think you really understand the purpose of the permit.

/I'll cut you some slack since you've taught college. Evidently, you don't have what it takes to cut it in the real world.


Why, are concealed carry permit holders legally obligated to carry a firearm at all times?
 
2012-08-26 03:50:21 AM

Gordon Bennett: Eponymous: Atypical Person Reading Fark:
Permits - fine, actual firearms, no.

I don't think you really understand the purpose of the permit.

/I'll cut you some slack since you've taught college. Evidently, you don't have what it takes to cut it in the real world.

Why, are concealed carry permit holders legally obligated to carry a firearm at all times?


No, apparently Atypical Person Reading Fark doesn't seem to understand that the whole point of the permit is to allow one to carry a gun, if you can have a permit but not a gun than the permit is pointless.

Although some states require that if you have a permit that you carry the permit at all times, even if you are not carrying a firearm.
 
2012-08-26 06:18:04 AM

redlegrick: As for carrying on campus, this is a double-edged sword. Someone posted earlier that it would depend on the school itself, contrasting between a smaller facility in a low-crime area versus a larger campus in a more active area. In some ways, the opposite might be t ...


The thing that always confuses me about "no carry on campus" is why people think it would be such a problem, if it isn't a problem for the larger city. After all, many states have CCW permits. People can and do have those permits (and some presumably carry) not just in rural areas, but big cities. Phoenix, Denver, Houston, Philadelphia, Jacksonville, all are in states with shall-issue CCWs. This means you have people carrying guns in places with lots of other people like malls, grocery stores, and so on. There are not mass shooting all the time by these CCW holders (look at the media frenzy on shootings, you'd know if there were).

Why then do we assume that campus would be the one place this would be different? That is what I don't get about the hysteria. This idea that somehow university is this special place where tempers flare to epic proportions seen nowhere else and people would kill each other left and right if they had guns.

Working for a university, I just don't buy it. Heck we have far LESS violent crime than the rest of the city. Biggest crimes on campus, by far, are bike theft, under age drinking (shocker), and marijuana use (another shocker). We do not have tons of fist fights breaking out all the time, they are quite rare in fact.

Also perhaps people don't know but universities, at least all the ones I've seen, have no security to keep guns off campus. It isn't like some high schools where they have metal detectors and search people. The campus I work on is about 400 acres in size (between the main campus and ancillary areas). There is no border, no barrier, you just walk, bike, or drive on and off at your pleasure, no security. The "no guns" rule is one that is on your honor to obey, nobody checks.

I just don't get the big deal people make of it. If you truly feel scared by the idea of guns on campus by CCW holders, then you probably would want to move out of the state that grants shall-issue CCWs because there are people with guns in other places around you, you just don't know it.
 
2012-08-26 06:55:47 AM

RickyWilliams'sBong: Molavian: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Kumana Wanalaia: Cpl.D: Physics is just applied math.

Math is applied logic.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x308]

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x252]


i hate you
/BS econ
//still laughing
 
2012-08-26 07:41:59 AM

MisterMook: Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, ever ...



Well, how bout I give you a choice?

www.common-sense-politics.org
 
2012-08-26 09:42:00 AM
Boulder, CO - last outpost of the USSR....
 
2012-08-26 09:44:10 AM
Here in Atlanta we have stories about the students at Georgia Tech being victims of violent crime once or twice a month. Why? Maybe because the thugs from the housing projects next door KNOW that their victims are unarmed. It's not rocket science people.
 
2012-08-26 10:40:06 AM
Hey, I have an idea!

Maybe this physics professor, who is clearly a genius, should consider canceling class if any student is flagged as a threat from a PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE.

You know, because PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILES document all sorts of things about individuals, vs. A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT.

This is farking stupid and so are the people who are so ignorant with their mocking of gun owners.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a republican, I'm not a democrat...I'm a freethinker who agrees with republicans on some things and democrats on other things, instead of swallowing everything my opinion leaders tell me to. You know, because anyone who has the stupidity to tell me one side is ALWAYS right 100% of the time is a blind chump. Ultimately republicans and democrats are 2 sides of the same coin and people who don't realize this have only themselves to blame for the state of our country.
 
2012-08-26 10:57:30 AM

People_are_Idiots: MisterMook: Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, ever ...


Well, how bout I give you a choice?


As a Liberal, I would want my daughter to have the condom. It is the fairest of the three. It allows the innocent rapist to get what he wants, my daughter to be safe, and helps me look good to my Conservative friends by reducing spending on police responses. An all around win-win-win. Of course since she make less than 250% of the poverty line, I would expect the government to buy it for her.
 
2012-08-26 01:53:54 PM

Dear Jerk: Besides, if you feel the need to carry a gun to class, why don't you be bootstrappy and get into a better school?


Because, currently, there is only about one person in the world who does the kind of research I am interested in. I am getting my PhD in his lab, in Detroit. I've had people try to mug and carjack me. I've been attacked by dogs.
We all make sacrifices, mine is doing my research in a shiatty part of town.

The Detroit police were proud to announce that they got their average response time to "priority" 911 calls down to under 30 minutes, and then they restricted what would be considered "priority" in the future so that they could try to trim the response time further. If somebody is only trying to break in, or has broken in and already hurt you, you are not a priority to the police anymore. People have died here waiting hours for 911 to send out the cops.

We are on our own, in a city that is ranked among the most violent places in the world year after year.
 
2012-08-26 02:10:49 PM

MisterMook: I don't want any cop with a gun inside anywhere I'm at. I don't know any of you and I don't trust any of you, and no one should be forced to disarm themselves to feel safe just because some jackass feels paranoid in the philosophy class.


Fixed that right up for you.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
.
slowfacts.files.wordpress.com
And yes, I have multiple of both guns shown in that second picture
 
2012-08-26 02:21:46 PM
So armed civilians add two more accidental deaths to an already flawed system. You must be so proud.
 
2012-08-26 02:24:44 PM

People_are_Idiots: MisterMook: Right, because guns on campus worked out so well there? How about the Green on Blue violence in Afghanistan, everyone involved is carrying an assault rifle or some sort of piece - how many people are being protected by guns there?

The bottom line is, if you're carrying a gun to "defend yourself" you're an idiot. I don't care if you've got a gun in the house. I don't care if you're hunting. But once everyone starts "defending themselves" with guns you're in a position of defensive escalation - either enough people don't carry to make your gun fetish worthwhile or everyone carries and the criminals start carrying bigger guns or shooting first. Unless you're wearing a badge, if you're carrying a gun you're a potential criminal. You can shoot me and my kids, the old lady across the street, the cops when they pull you over for a speeding ticket, anything - no one can know and no amount of "training" fixes that. You make your immediate environment less secure just by bringing your weapon into the area. If I'm teaching a class I don't want you carrying a gun for the same reasons I don't want everyone carrying a gun, regardless of any certificates or licenses. I'd rather take all the money you're spending on such things and reinvest them into better police, or maybe a more secure campus. Unless you're actually entering a war zone or it's part of your job as a police officer no amount of "unknown people carrying firearms" makes a place more safe.

Wearing your gun in public is as silly for a civilian as strapping a sword onto your back to go jogging. I don't care how afraid you are of jogging, the civilized answer isn't adding more weaponry into the situation. It just makes you look like an unhinged, paranoid threat to the peace. The answer for making a more peaceful society isn't "how much more weaponry can we insert into the situation before the violence stops," the only time that ever worked was as how it had a massive economical backlash in the Cold War. Again, ever ...


Well, how bout I give you a choice?


Well, first I think you should get treatment for your case of AIDS, then I'd teach my daughter to avoid asshole rapists like yourself.
 
2012-08-26 03:08:48 PM

MisterMook: So armed civilians add two more accidental deaths to an already flawed system. You must be so proud.


MisterMook: Well, first I think you should get treatment for your case of AIDS, then I'd teach my daughter to avoid asshole rapists like yourself.


Two obvious trolls in a row is too obvious, troll.
0/10
 
2012-08-26 03:31:55 PM

ThatGuyOverThere: Two obvious trolls in a row is too obvious, troll.
0/10

Oh, did I hurt your feelings? Maybe you'd like to take a couple shots at me with a gun? I mean, heavens forbid you actually have a real debate, right? Someone threatens my kids. Someone shows some graphics referring to twenty and thirty year old data points. Should I be afraid? You don't want to have a discussion now, when can I expect you to come at me with your guns, tough guy?
 
2012-08-26 04:53:49 PM

Spirit Hammer: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567: The point of CCW is the first letter: Concealed. These permits invariably require concealment. If it's unknown that the person is carrying, how can it have a dampening effect on anything?

THIS!
If I'm carrying concealed correctly, no one will know. that's why I ignore the signs in movie theaters, grocery stores etc that say no weapons.

Um, doesn't the law that permits you to carry a gun also say you must respect signs that say "no guns?"

It depends on the state. Federal law precludes places like the post office and schools, and state laws usually preclude certain buildings. But here in Texas, if you are not on a list, you have to have a very specifically dimensioned sign with very specific terminology placed at every public entrance. Other states have easier signage requirements. Other states say signs do not carry the weight of law.

Smells like politics.

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

If those signs magically stopped bad guys from carrying guns, then I would agree. However it seems that criminals don't obey laws, or signs, either.
Go figure.


Apparently not, since you've just admitted that you ignore the signs, and by doing so YOU are by definition a criminal.
 
2012-08-26 06:47:29 PM

MisterMook: So armed civilians add two more accidental deaths to an already flawed system. You must be so proud.


I am curious: for what reason do you advocate that civilians be denied an effective means of defendant against violent criminals? Are you able to demonstrate that shall-issue based concealed weapons permit systems produce demonstrable harm, or is your position based entirely upon your own irrational paranoia?
 
2012-08-26 07:30:14 PM

MisterMook: Oh, did I hurt your feelings? Maybe you'd like to take a couple shots at me with a gun? I mean, heavens forbid you actually have a real debate, right? ... You don't want to have a discussion now, when can I expect you to come at me with your guns, tough guy?


Why is it that you think your poor impulse control extends to everybody else? Statistically people with concealed carry licenses are about the least likely group you can find that would resort to violence. That's not 20 year old data, that's every year, in all the states that issue concealed carry licenses.
If you honestly think that the people who are proven to be the least violent will suddenly become violent when you and your family are around, maybe you should be looking at you and your family.
 
2012-08-26 07:41:25 PM

MisterMook:
Someone shows some graphics referring to twenty and thirty year old data points. Should I be afraid?


Actually I'm going to give you this point without contest.
The data IS outdated. In the last 20 years we have seen a rampant militarization of the nation's police forces. These "trained professionals" frequently storm the wrong houses and shoot innocent people and are rarely held accountable for the deaths. They shoot wildly and don't face the consequences of their lack of marksmanship the way the rest of us "laymen" do.

So tell me, why should I trust the police, who are 24 minutes away (Detroit times, as I am in Detroit) and only made to qualify their shooting skills annually to save me from a violent confrontation when I am at the range a few times a month making sure I can shoot my guns and land more than the 80% that police qualification requires?

What you propose is like trying to rely on a tin-roofed shack in a valley to protect you from a hurricane's waters.
 
2012-08-26 08:02:01 PM
Oh, so the argument is "I'm a good one," it's all those "other" people carrying guns out there that people need to worry about. But basically the data presented amounts to more the two additional people dying that didn't have to from the cherry picked data for the blurb, and an old man who shot some teenagers. Plus some thirty year old police brutality statistics - which is a lot like making your point about the threat of lynchings and beheadings based off of 1930s southern US statistics and the French revolution.

If you don't carry a gun, then you can't shoot me. If you're carrying a gun I must consider you shooting me. Even if you're a trusted friend, because accidents and misunderstandings, because of bad days and shiatty aim. If you're a stranger? You might as well be a criminal. I'm teaching a class and ask you to leave because you're carrying a gun, you could be some unhinged gangbanger of the sort you're apparently expecting to meet over the pop quiz or what...you're someone "asserting his rights?" What happens if I flunk you because you're a moron? What happens if I tell you to your face that you're a moron? What if I don't even say it nicely, and it's the day you caught the wife cheating on you with your dog? I can't predict the ultimate reaches of human behavior, but beyond "trust me, I would never do that" the only way I know I won't get shot with you carrying a gun is to make sure you don't farking carry around me. Sure, maybe you're secretly Chuck Norris and you can also karate chop me dead, but that's more difficult than shooting me in the back while I'm running away to call the cops on you. Maybe you're a pirate-worthy knife fighter of the Bowie ilk, and it's still a lot easier to safely overcome you if you go nuts with that knife than the gun.

I fully support guns for hunting and home defense, especially as specifically indicated for rifles and shotguns. There's plenty of chest-thumping manliness there without worrying also about folks walking around town with pistols at their sides and trying to discern the law-abiding ones from the criminals. My theoretical daughter the other poster was attempting to rape for his point should avoid BOTH ARMED RAPISTS AND CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT CARRIERS because for all intents an purposes other than law enforcement your both the same people and must be treated as such. If your classes are that dangerous that you need a gun to feel safe on campus then your campus needs better security. It certainly doesn't need more guns, because that simply makes it less secure for everyone BUT the people with guns. And in a civilized society people shouldn't need to invest in tools to better kill people to learn math. Screw that, that's not civilized - that's a shiatty Hollywood movie, or a Third World Country.
 
2012-08-26 08:19:50 PM
Honestly? If you're afraid of the police, and you're afraid of the criminals, then you should probably stop wasting money on guns and move somewhere safer.

What you propose is like trying to rely on a tin-roofed shack in a valley to protect you from a hurricane's waters.

If you're in a valley and you're being hit by a hurricane you're probably safer from a hurricane's "waters" than anywhere else geographically speaking in the US. The wind too, though you should stay inside away from trees that are taller than you. The reason hurricanes flood is because the Gulf Coast is crazy flat. Even the really strong hurricanes pushing on inland really aren't much "hurricane" once they hit something you could define as a "valley." In any case, you're certainly not going to make the hurricane any better with a tornado thrown into the mix, even if it's "the good tornado." Adding more shiatty weather into the mix is just more shiatty weather, and adding more guns into a terrible neighborhood isn't improving them, it's just making for a shiattier neighborhood.

/Florida native
//I've lived in some dumps too, and I had a gun in the house in those dumps, but carrying a gun around is just asking for someone to misidentify you. Maybe you get mugged for not having the gun, but if someone mugs you and you're armed you're a target on three sides: Yourself, the cops, and the criminals - and that sticks whether or not someone's actually trying to criminalize you.
///Especially if your cops are "trigger-happy." Asserting your principles doesn't mean crap when the cops shoot you because they're afraid of you shooting them first.
 
2012-08-26 09:30:56 PM

MisterMook: I'm teaching a class and ask you to leave because you're carrying a gun, you could be some unhinged gangbanger of the sort you're apparently expecting to meet over the pop quiz or what...you're someone "asserting his rights?" ... If your classes are that dangerous that you need a gun to feel safe on campus then your campus needs better security.


Given the fact that shootings DO INDEED happen on campus, you must accept the fact that there actually are already guns there, usually ONLY in the hands of gangbangers and the unhinged. You can't stop that. Ever. I've been to a lot of colleges in a lot of places, I have never seen one that has what I would consider "good" security. At least my current building has a desk with a guard that is supposed to be checking IDs. The only one that does is the supervisor, when she's not on a cigarette break, or paying attention to her cell phone, or reading 50 shades of grey. I'm not generally one to say that one armed good guy will stop a spree, but I admit the possibility. I probably won't be that one though, because I'll be trying to keep my own neck bullet free. I enjoy running from confrontations, while armed, whenever possible. It has happened a few times and I'll be happy to do it again. I don't know about other CPL training courses, but the NRA course (disclosure, I do have the instructor cert) makes it a point to tell about the legal ramifications of shooting, and the section with the lawyer usually involves knowing how much it costs to defend your shooting. Because of that, not a lot of people are keen on having to shoot somebody.

Law enforcement rarely shows up within the first few minutes, which is really the only time a person with a CPL would be involved in such a situation, if at all. You can make all the gloom and doom scenarios you like, but students have already been carrying concealed pistols at about 100 colleges, and none of your predictions have panned out. However, a number of shootings have occurred at colleges that don't allow it. And in one recent situation, an unstable failing student chose to go shoot up a pistol-free movie theater instead of his college where they DID allow concealed carry. Make what you like of it.

As for my valley comment, perhaps "gulch" or "drainage ditch" would have been a better choice of word. I was hoping you would overlook it as soon as I clicked "add comment", but alas, no. Since we're on that level, you used "your" when you should have used "you're".
 
2012-08-27 05:00:06 PM

kingoomieiii: He's got it backwards- the classroom needs more guns, not less. Gun-saturated environments keep everyone on level ground, so no one has an advantage. This type of gun saturation is the reason there is never any violence inside gangs.


Really? You're gonna compare gang members to college students?
 
2012-08-27 09:21:19 PM

johnphantom: Really? You're gonna compare gang members to college students?


To be fair, it happens. Especially if the college students are gang members that got let in through athletic scholarships or overreaching diversity programs. Back at university of michigan, one of the study centers had a room where they ran sessions to help some of these attractive and successful students "catch up" to where a college freshman should be - you know, things like learning to use "you aren't" instead of "yous aint" and how to solve for "x" if 4+x=6.

I wouldn't have cared if they knew how to close the door or at least keep their voices down. Apparently, manners were not taught in those sessions.

Also, a couple of football players got in to an argument at a party around the corner from my apartment and wound up getting shot as they were cutting through my driveway. Given that I came up in a not-great area and spent a lot of time in Detroit, I was really hoping that I wouldn't need to check my car for bullet holes in Ann Arbor...
 
2012-08-28 11:44:23 PM

Dear Jerk: Guns put an end to debate. That is, in fact, the whole point of guns. And that is the point the perfesser is making.

Besides, if you feel the need to carry a gun to class, why don't you be bootstrappy and get into a better school?

It's not worth 1000 accidental shooting for one mass murderer to get taken out by a hero.


Finally! A rational point of view.
 
2012-08-28 11:47:28 PM

BarkingUnicorn: wellreadneck: BarkingUnicorn: fastbow: BarkingUnicorn: Spirit Hammer: rico567:

I think anyone who intentionally defies "no gun" signs should lose the privilege of carrying a gun in public.

Is carrying a gun in public a privilege or a right?

If it requires a permit, it's not a right.


A lot of times you don't have definitive proof until it go's to the SCOTUS.

Although the 2nd Amendment is pretty clear, "to keep and bear arms"
 
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