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(Washington Post)   The US Navy tried to start a war with Iran and didn't tell anyone, including the President   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 37
    More: Scary, U.S. Navy, Iran, Iran-Iraq War, vice admirals, territorial claim, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Council, George H. W. Bush  
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27059 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 8:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-25 06:40:47 PM
4 votes:
The Navy has more to risk than any branch of the service in a war with Iran - at least in the opening day while they are in range of all of Iran's anti-ship missiles.

I can see this woman getting upset with her bosses' policies. I can see her not liking them. I can see her strongly disagreeing with them and wishing that her bosses would change their minds. That is all very believable.

Can I see some admirals trying to instigate a war with Iran at that time? Not so much. The article seems to overlay her opinion of what could happen and used that opinion to describe the intentions of people that did not comment on this story - other than to say "That's BS".
2012-08-25 01:47:53 PM
4 votes:
Thanks for this, subby. Excellent article.
2012-08-25 09:28:31 PM
3 votes:

Maul555: WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.


Agreed. Two things jumped out at me. The first was the sending the frigate into the area between Iraq and Iran. That was done after the Iranians captured the crew of a British patrol boat and held them. This would have merely been a middle finger in response to that. Send an Arleigh Burke out with the message of "try to capture this". That was more in the vein of continuing the pissing match, not starting a war.

The second one was the three flatdecks in the Gulf. It happened a week after Cosgriff planned it and no one went to war. All the big decks really do is taunt the Iranians to take potshots at them. They don't really increase the capability of the Gulf region given how many airfields we have there.

Sounds more like she got busted for improper business dealings in Sudan (well Cabelly did) and she's trying to make herself sound better by talking about how she stopped a war. Sounds better than I'm living in Australia to duck the FBI and continued unpleasant questions.

/the minute Cosgiff cut orders to move 2 carriers people upstairs would notice, it wouldn't shock me to discover some other Admiral who was more politically aware jerked Cosgiff up short long before this woman ever called anyone
2012-08-25 09:04:28 PM
3 votes:
Reading this whole thing - it appears she was an young opportunistic whorish shiatheel who ratted out her boss when things were not going her way. Sucks to be you. $200 fine. Do not pass go.
2012-08-25 08:56:42 PM
3 votes:

miss diminutive: I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


They're government employees. There are good ones and idiot ones. You generally don't hear about the good ones, unless they're doing something awesome. When you hear about the bad ones...
2012-08-25 08:50:42 PM
3 votes:
The War on Whistleblowers continues.
2012-08-25 05:23:29 PM
3 votes:
Todd understands her story sounds improbable

It sounds about par for the course to me.
2012-08-25 09:38:29 PM
2 votes:

detritus: They also did this type of thing in the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification to get us into Vietnam, too. fark the Military and their unquenchable thirst for blood.


there's also Operation Northwoods
2012-08-25 09:34:35 PM
2 votes:
They also did this type of thing in the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification to get us into Vietnam, too. fark the Military and their unquenchable thirst for blood.
2012-08-25 09:13:47 PM
2 votes:
I just 'love' how the article devolves into her life story of being a model in Georgetown and being 'tall, brash and sexy' and able to 'stand up to men'.

Her credibility ended right there.
2012-08-25 09:05:28 PM
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.


I can totally see Cheney and Rumsfeld starting a war with Iran and then trying to spin Obama as the crazy, warmongering bastard who started it.
2012-08-25 08:59:53 PM
2 votes:
I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.
2012-08-25 08:56:21 PM
2 votes:
Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab, the diplomatically sensitive and economically crucial waterway dividing Iraq and Iran.


...So, and frat boy with a four wheeler wanted to go tearing across the nerds lawn?
2012-08-25 02:58:52 PM
2 votes:
That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.
2012-08-25 02:24:31 PM
2 votes:
Who will guard the guards?
2012-08-26 12:11:46 AM
1 votes:
Can someone tell me how a successful intelligence analyst fall for the "Oh sure I'll leave my wife for you, baby." ?
2012-08-25 11:36:15 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy:
Agreed. Two things jumped out at me. The first was the sending the frigate into the area between Iraq and Iran. That was done after the Iranians captured the crew of a British patrol boat and held them. This would have merely been a middle finger in response to that. Send an Arleigh Burke out with the message of "try to capture this". That was more in the vein of continuing the pissing match, not starting a war.


Point of order. An Arleigh Burke is a Destroyer, not a Frigate. Frigates have about half the crew, a quarter the weapons, and run on one propeller. Given the time period, most likely a Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate.
2012-08-25 11:03:55 PM
1 votes:

jimmyjackfunk: isn't the strait as well as the majority of the gulf littered with mines that Iran so conveniently placed there back in the 1980 war with Iraq? Or did we manage to get the majority of them cleaned up post Iraq-Iran war?


We didn't. Would be a real shame if a US ship hit a mine and sank. That sort of thing could lead to a war.
2012-08-25 10:50:24 PM
1 votes:
BTW, this is what her baby-daddy Cabelly was up to in Sudan. If he was accused of handing over sensitive US information to Sudan, it's not exactly a surprise that Todd's security clearance was pulled. And in a job like that, a contractor is persona non grata without a clearance. 

I assume there is much more to the story than meets the eye.
2012-08-25 10:22:47 PM
1 votes:
HempHead: -

i.imgur.com

So you're not going to give Iran any credit for killing Americans over the years? Not even the Marines in Lebanon?

Do you even recognize that the Iranians are the biggest state sponsors of global islamic terrorism?
2012-08-25 10:10:00 PM
1 votes:
In light of this, I now think about the USS Vincennes firing a missile at Iran Air Flight 655.
2012-08-25 10:07:51 PM
1 votes:

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


I wouldn't call them imbeciles, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck....

The real reason it seems so prevalent is that people in these positions have usually been in them for a very long career and begin to lose perspective and the inability to approach things with a fresh even mind (tunnel vision). Basically the whole "if all you have is a hammer, after a while everything starts to look like a nail"

I would like to see more military (Pentagon) oversight, and even more so for our civilian police forces. But then you get into a tricky game of mucking up the system with enough red tape that it can't do it's job when it needs to act quickly. There must certainly be a middle ground and I'm sure we can do better than this (provided we have all the facts here)
2012-08-25 09:52:42 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: BarkingUnicorn: FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)

I'm gonna go with "Kafkaesque".


I'd say closer to Pynchonian.
2012-08-25 09:41:49 PM
1 votes:
Id have enjoyed TFA far more if there was less bio about the lady, kinda lost me when they got into seemingly unimportant parts of her past/lineage, etc.
2012-08-25 09:39:34 PM
1 votes:

Maul555: WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.


Well, to be fair they did seek comment from the other side. If they're not going to comment of course the article would be one sided.
2012-08-25 09:32:27 PM
1 votes:
For the past year, the air had been electric with reports of impending U.S. or Israeli attacks on Iran. If this maneuver were carried out, Todd and others feared, the Iranians would freak out. At the least, they'd cancel a critical diplomatic meeting coming up with U.S. officials.

Oh no, they might have cancelled a critical diplomatic meeting that didn't accomplish anything! Someone call the UN and have them write a sternly written letter about this! The article tries hard to make this sound serious, but fails.
2012-08-25 09:16:05 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.


Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.
2012-08-25 09:15:23 PM
1 votes:
WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.
2012-08-25 09:12:35 PM
1 votes:
while I was reading this I felt a huge boner from the guys who support wikileaks hitting the floor beneath me. the maneuver happened anyways and nothing occurred. It seemed like a BS story with about a million flowery words for a person that probably got told a story through gossip and decided to be an american hero. Ever heard of the secretary who got too much information and crapped in the punch bowl of their bosses?
2012-08-25 09:09:48 PM
1 votes:
No, I would say some of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld's toadies in the Defense Department were told to start a war with Iran and told not to let the State Department find out what was going to happen.

Just like much of what went on in Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan.
2012-08-25 09:04:18 PM
1 votes:
Strange article, the Iran thing doesn't seem to be at all connected to her losing her job- that has to do with romantic attachments and dodgy regimes. She comes from DC aristocracy, and half the story is about her bio?

This has less to do with the Navy and provoking Iran than paranoid counter-intel types. It happens a the farking time.
2012-08-25 09:01:05 PM
1 votes:
After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?
2012-08-25 08:58:14 PM
1 votes:
One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Also 3 carriers (2 aircraft and 1 LHD) will quite simply NEVER sneak up on anyone unannounced.


Much like Gallows Humor, it's all in the context whether it's provocative or not. Real life trolling has much larger consequences.

The plan to do this on the part of the US Navy, to put it in a prospective you can easily relate to, is like going to the politics tab and posting a well-thought out "Just Asking Questions" post on the legitimacy of Obama's citizenship as the first or second post on a green-lit thread, and then setting back and watching the Whargarbl fly.
2012-08-25 08:56:56 PM
1 votes:
Forward he cried
from the rear
and the front rank died.
2012-08-25 08:52:54 PM
1 votes:
FTA: According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.

To Todd, it was like something straight out of "Seven Days in May," the 1964 political thriller about a right-wing U.S. military coup. A retired senior naval officer familiar with Cosgriff's thinking said the deployment plan was not intended to be provocative.


i253.photobucket.com
2012-08-25 08:52:46 PM
1 votes:
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
2012-08-25 05:57:32 PM
1 votes:
Sounds like the Navy. They get a little to used to operating out there all by themselves.
 
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