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(Washington Post)   The US Navy tried to start a war with Iran and didn't tell anyone, including the President   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 138
    More: Scary, U.S. Navy, Iran, Iran-Iraq War, vice admirals, territorial claim, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Council, George H. W. Bush  
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27072 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 8:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



138 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-08-25 01:47:53 PM  
Thanks for this, subby. Excellent article.
 
2012-08-25 02:24:31 PM  
Who will guard the guards?
 
2012-08-25 02:58:52 PM  
That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.
 
2012-08-25 02:59:32 PM  
FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)
 
2012-08-25 05:23:29 PM  
Todd understands her story sounds improbable

It sounds about par for the course to me.
 
2012-08-25 05:27:01 PM  
How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Also 3 carriers (2 aircraft and 1 LHD) will quite simply NEVER sneak up on anyone unannounced.
 
2012-08-25 05:40:27 PM  
Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab,

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-25 05:57:32 PM  
Sounds like the Navy. They get a little to used to operating out there all by themselves.
 
2012-08-25 06:40:47 PM  
The Navy has more to risk than any branch of the service in a war with Iran - at least in the opening day while they are in range of all of Iran's anti-ship missiles.

I can see this woman getting upset with her bosses' policies. I can see her not liking them. I can see her strongly disagreeing with them and wishing that her bosses would change their minds. That is all very believable.

Can I see some admirals trying to instigate a war with Iran at that time? Not so much. The article seems to overlay her opinion of what could happen and used that opinion to describe the intentions of people that did not comment on this story - other than to say "That's BS".
 
2012-08-25 08:50:42 PM  
The War on Whistleblowers continues.
 
2012-08-25 08:51:13 PM  
I thought it was the Air Force that was full of crazy Christian end-timers?
 
2012-08-25 08:52:46 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-08-25 08:52:54 PM  
FTA: According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.

To Todd, it was like something straight out of "Seven Days in May," the 1964 political thriller about a right-wing U.S. military coup. A retired senior naval officer familiar with Cosgriff's thinking said the deployment plan was not intended to be provocative.


i253.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-25 08:56:21 PM  
Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab, the diplomatically sensitive and economically crucial waterway dividing Iraq and Iran.


...So, and frat boy with a four wheeler wanted to go tearing across the nerds lawn?
 
2012-08-25 08:56:42 PM  

miss diminutive: I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


They're government employees. There are good ones and idiot ones. You generally don't hear about the good ones, unless they're doing something awesome. When you hear about the bad ones...
 
2012-08-25 08:56:56 PM  
Forward he cried
from the rear
and the front rank died.
 
2012-08-25 08:57:49 PM  

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


Either that; or they have one big red button labeled WAR.


/ push the button!!
 
2012-08-25 08:57:57 PM  
isn't the strait as well as the majority of the gulf littered with mines that Iran so conveniently placed there back in the 1980 war with Iraq? Or did we manage to get the majority of them cleaned up post Iraq-Iran war?
 
2012-08-25 08:58:14 PM  
One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Also 3 carriers (2 aircraft and 1 LHD) will quite simply NEVER sneak up on anyone unannounced.


Much like Gallows Humor, it's all in the context whether it's provocative or not. Real life trolling has much larger consequences.

The plan to do this on the part of the US Navy, to put it in a prospective you can easily relate to, is like going to the politics tab and posting a well-thought out "Just Asking Questions" post on the legitimacy of Obama's citizenship as the first or second post on a green-lit thread, and then setting back and watching the Whargarbl fly.
 
2012-08-25 08:59:11 PM  

One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


While I get how Iran could feel this is a provocative act, the US Navy has a habit of doing these freedom of navigation cruises in controversial waters.

Thing is, either those waters are free for the navigation of all, as international waters are supposed to be, or they are not. If they are not, you might as well cede them to the nation who might start something. If they are, then you can sail there at will without so much as a by-your-leave. That's what freedom of navigation means.

Cruising like this is indeed daring the other guy to start something- are they willing to start a war to back up their claim? Sometimes, like with Libya and their Line of Death BS, they'll call the bluff and shoot. Sometimes they just let it go, essentially ceding the claim.

I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

If your neighbor puts a shed half on your land, you HAVE to contest it. If you don't, your land is pretty much now his. Enlarge the scale to geopolitics, and there you are. Your neighbor might be a crazy bastard who will want to fight you because you called a lawyer about it, but damn... does that mean you let it go?
 
2012-08-25 08:59:53 PM  
I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.
 
2012-08-25 09:00:01 PM  
Three carriers off the coast of Iran wouldn't have been the start of the war. It would have been the end of it.

It isn't hard for America to win battles against almost anyone on the Earth. It's winning the peace that is impossible.
 
2012-08-25 09:01:05 PM  
After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?
 
2012-08-25 09:03:06 PM  
I've read better organized stories by Clancy imitators. Or, the god-forsaken ghost writer that he has working for him now.
 
2012-08-25 09:04:18 PM  
Strange article, the Iran thing doesn't seem to be at all connected to her losing her job- that has to do with romantic attachments and dodgy regimes. She comes from DC aristocracy, and half the story is about her bio?

This has less to do with the Navy and provoking Iran than paranoid counter-intel types. It happens a the farking time.
 
2012-08-25 09:04:28 PM  
Reading this whole thing - it appears she was an young opportunistic whorish shiatheel who ratted out her boss when things were not going her way. Sucks to be you. $200 fine. Do not pass go.
 
2012-08-25 09:05:23 PM  
...all the time
 
2012-08-25 09:05:28 PM  

Hobodeluxe: I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.


I can totally see Cheney and Rumsfeld starting a war with Iran and then trying to spin Obama as the crazy, warmongering bastard who started it.
 
2012-08-25 09:07:11 PM  

NutWrench: Hobodeluxe: I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.

I can totally see Cheney and Rumsfeld starting a war with Iran and then trying to spin Obama as the crazy, warmongering bastard who started it.


this was 2007
 
2012-08-25 09:07:12 PM  
Some hysterical woman said what?
 
2012-08-25 09:08:11 PM  
DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.
 
2012-08-25 09:09:25 PM  
FTA:

On the doorstep was a man who introduced himself as "Bill Phelps, a consular officer from the American Embassy."

He explained to Todd and her husband that Chinese hackers had been compromising U.S. passports, and he was warning ex-pat Americans about it. He was at the H's. Could he see her papers, please?

"Mine begins with T," she said. "My name is Todd." She nodded at her husband, Charles. "He's an H."

The man appeared flustered. "Oh, wait, let me think," she recalled him saying. "R, S, T. ... Oh, yeah, T's were compromised, too."


Rookie mistake, with a rookie recovery. My flabber was gasted when I read that part. Some mighty fine intelligence work there.

/the rest was pretty unbelievable as well
 
2012-08-25 09:09:48 PM  
No, I would say some of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld's toadies in the Defense Department were told to start a war with Iran and told not to let the State Department find out what was going to happen.

Just like much of what went on in Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
2012-08-25 09:11:02 PM  

DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?


Julius and Ethel?
 
2012-08-25 09:12:35 PM  
while I was reading this I felt a huge boner from the guys who support wikileaks hitting the floor beneath me. the maneuver happened anyways and nothing occurred. It seemed like a BS story with about a million flowery words for a person that probably got told a story through gossip and decided to be an american hero. Ever heard of the secretary who got too much information and crapped in the punch bowl of their bosses?
 
2012-08-25 09:12:49 PM  
Does anyone know what that article was about? I got bogged down in all the adjectives about her modeling career and her handsome Aussie boyfriend.

And pretty much, honey, you did the right thing; but mess with the bull, you're getting the horns sooner or later. Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.
 
2012-08-25 09:13:47 PM  
I just 'love' how the article devolves into her life story of being a model in Georgetown and being 'tall, brash and sexy' and able to 'stand up to men'.

Her credibility ended right there.
 
2012-08-25 09:15:23 PM  
WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.
 
2012-08-25 09:16:05 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.


Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.
 
2012-08-25 09:17:49 PM  
fark Bush so hard.
 
2012-08-25 09:18:50 PM  

Dr.Zom: I thought it was the Air Force that was full of crazy Christian end-timers?


And Fark's 'Anti-Christian Brigade' is heard from yet once again.

Farking allah, if you people were as suspect about those farking Muslim fanatics who actually declare they want to start a Holy War as you are about benign Christians your opinions would garner a little more respect.

As it is your knee-jerk (and I stress the 'jerk' aspect) anti-Christian comments are boring and juvenile.
 
2012-08-25 09:19:15 PM  
Again?
 
2012-08-25 09:20:05 PM  

douchebag/hater: I just 'love' how the article devolves into her life story of being a model in Georgetown and being 'tall, brash and sexy' and able to 'stand up to men'.

Her credibility ended right there.


Yeah.. I just skipped that and looked for Cosgriff's name to show up again. "Just the facts mame."
 
2012-08-25 09:20:53 PM  

DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this.


Name three.
 
2012-08-25 09:21:40 PM  

T-Servo: Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.

Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.


Was that before or after the handsome Aussie boyfriend? Goddamn, I couldn't wade through all the fluff to find the actual story.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:02 PM  

MeinRS6: The Navy has more to risk than any branch of the service in a war with Iran - at least in the opening day while they are in range of all of Iran's anti-ship missiles.

I can see this woman getting upset with her bosses' policies. I can see her not liking them. I can see her strongly disagreeing with them and wishing that her bosses would change their minds. That is all very believable.

Can I see some admirals trying to instigate a war with Iran at that time? Not so much. The article seems to overlay her opinion of what could happen and used that opinion to describe the intentions of people that did not comment on this story - other than to say "That's BS".


So much this.

I am not saying this isn't possible, but as another Farker pointed out, you don't exactly sneak aircraft carriers around.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:19 PM  

BronyMedic: DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.


He actually went to Congress seeking authority to do so, seriously undermining the President of The United States
 
2012-08-25 09:25:22 PM  
U.S. Central Command ... was itching to push the Iranians,

Military is designed to face threats and react to them aggressively. The Iranians have been perceived as threats for a long time. It's natural for Admirals and Generals to view them so. It's right for their elected overseers to set their agendas. The elected officials should be setting the agenda.
 
2012-08-25 09:25:45 PM  

Overfiend: I am not saying this isn't possible, but as another Farker pointed out, you don't exactly sneak aircraft carriers around.


Yeah, sealed orders don't exist.
 
2012-08-25 09:27:46 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)


I'm gonna go with "Kafkaesque".
 
2012-08-25 09:28:31 PM  

Maul555: WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.


Agreed. Two things jumped out at me. The first was the sending the frigate into the area between Iraq and Iran. That was done after the Iranians captured the crew of a British patrol boat and held them. This would have merely been a middle finger in response to that. Send an Arleigh Burke out with the message of "try to capture this". That was more in the vein of continuing the pissing match, not starting a war.

The second one was the three flatdecks in the Gulf. It happened a week after Cosgriff planned it and no one went to war. All the big decks really do is taunt the Iranians to take potshots at them. They don't really increase the capability of the Gulf region given how many airfields we have there.

Sounds more like she got busted for improper business dealings in Sudan (well Cabelly did) and she's trying to make herself sound better by talking about how she stopped a war. Sounds better than I'm living in Australia to duck the FBI and continued unpleasant questions.

/the minute Cosgiff cut orders to move 2 carriers people upstairs would notice, it wouldn't shock me to discover some other Admiral who was more politically aware jerked Cosgiff up short long before this woman ever called anyone
 
2012-08-25 09:28:56 PM  
I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!
 
2012-08-25 09:29:25 PM  

Gyrfalcon: T-Servo: Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.

Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.

Was that before or after the handsome Aussie boyfriend? Goddamn, I couldn't wade through all the fluff to find the actual story.


I think it came after her Egyptian Abba-soundtracked chauffeured scuba trip.

/yeesh, gamble so recklessly with spooks, she was bound to get burned
//not defending the Navy's cowboys, but she also takes credit for stopping war with Iran?
 
2012-08-25 09:32:27 PM  
For the past year, the air had been electric with reports of impending U.S. or Israeli attacks on Iran. If this maneuver were carried out, Todd and others feared, the Iranians would freak out. At the least, they'd cancel a critical diplomatic meeting coming up with U.S. officials.

Oh no, they might have cancelled a critical diplomatic meeting that didn't accomplish anything! Someone call the UN and have them write a sternly written letter about this! The article tries hard to make this sound serious, but fails.
 
2012-08-25 09:33:58 PM  

Jon H: I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-25 09:34:35 PM  
They also did this type of thing in the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification to get us into Vietnam, too. fark the Military and their unquenchable thirst for blood.
 
2012-08-25 09:38:29 PM  

detritus: They also did this type of thing in the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification to get us into Vietnam, too. fark the Military and their unquenchable thirst for blood.


there's also Operation Northwoods
 
2012-08-25 09:39:34 PM  

Maul555: WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.


Well, to be fair they did seek comment from the other side. If they're not going to comment of course the article would be one sided.
 
2012-08-25 09:41:49 PM  
Id have enjoyed TFA far more if there was less bio about the lady, kinda lost me when they got into seemingly unimportant parts of her past/lineage, etc.
 
2012-08-25 09:46:02 PM  
I like the incongruity of the facts have with the purported intentions the author tries to proscribe to the bush administration.

Previous 5th Fleet commanders had resisted various ploys by Bush administration hawks to threaten the Tehran regime.

the author asserts that the bush administration tried to get the navy to threaten Iran, but claims the navy wasn't having it. a pretty outrageous claim, but no quotes are provided, and there is no reference at all about how the author is aware of this amazing fact. this was apparently back when the bush administration was simply trying to keep Iraq in one piece and sending 50k additional troops to that hell hole. ok let's keep going.

But in spring 2007, a new commander arrived with an ambitious program to show the Iranians who was boss in the Persian Gulf.

well hell, sounds like according to the author back during the height of the Iraqi surge the bush administration finally got what it wanted, a complaint admiral that was willing to try to start a war with Iran at maybe the most inopportune moment in U.S. history.
so what did this new admiral do?

According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.


wtf, the evil admiral wants to keep the evil bush administration in the dark about his plan to bring 3 carriers to the mulah's beachs? why would he want to hide this information from what would surely be a grateful and rewarding president? even though the u.s. was bogged down in Iraq, the author claims the bush administration wanted war and was pushing the navy to start it, without even offering one example, yet the author also claims the Admiral was worried about the administration finding out. so which is it?

When Cosgriff instructed Todd and other staff not to tell the State Department about his plan to marshal the big decks (two aircraft carriers, an amphibious helicopter assault carrier and five supporting warships) that May in 2007, Todd said, it was just too much. She immediately called a family friend at the State Department's Iran desk. Her contact alerted superiors, according to sources familiar with events, and Cosgriff was told to stand down, at least until the critical conference with the Iranians was over...
Cosgriff was furious about "the [expletive] storm" coming down on him from Washington because of the leak, according to Todd and another staff member.
 
2012-08-25 09:46:49 PM  

PsyLord: FTA: According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.

To Todd, it was like something straight out of "Seven Days in May," the 1964 political thriller about a right-wing U.S. military coup. A retired senior naval officer familiar with Cosgriff's thinking said the deployment plan was not intended to be provocative.

[i253.photobucket.com image 274x238]


Maybe it's me, but if 3 aircraft carriers showed up in the Gulf, it's not a "virtual armada" - it's a real-life physical armada.

/Literally, the use of figurative colloquialism drive me crazy.
//So THERE, slashies.
 
2012-08-25 09:48:08 PM  
Mandrake, this is General Ripper. Do you recognize my voice?
 
2012-08-25 09:51:27 PM  
That story really should have ended at page 1. Yikes.
 
2012-08-25 09:52:42 PM  

Oznog: BarkingUnicorn: FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)

I'm gonna go with "Kafkaesque".


I'd say closer to Pynchonian.
 
2012-08-25 09:53:28 PM  
I'm calling BS on this whole story. There's no way she was a model.
 
2012-08-25 09:53:49 PM  

Oznog: BarkingUnicorn: FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)

I'm gonna go with "Kafkaesque".


You'll need to check with Brigadier Arthur Parker Schmitt... 

i218.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-25 09:57:30 PM  
Just get to war with Iran already and shut up about it. The U.S. is like that drama queen that annoys the hell out of everyone. Please, just shut up.
 
2012-08-25 09:58:28 PM  
i was thinking that some powerful medicine will stop this type of thought process
 
2012-08-25 10:02:18 PM  
Trust no one. And stay out of black oil puddles.
 
2012-08-25 10:03:33 PM  
payvand.com  

cdn2.thinkbynumbers.org 

www.kavehfarrokh.com
 
2012-08-25 10:07:51 PM  

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


I wouldn't call them imbeciles, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck....

The real reason it seems so prevalent is that people in these positions have usually been in them for a very long career and begin to lose perspective and the inability to approach things with a fresh even mind (tunnel vision). Basically the whole "if all you have is a hammer, after a while everything starts to look like a nail"

I would like to see more military (Pentagon) oversight, and even more so for our civilian police forces. But then you get into a tricky game of mucking up the system with enough red tape that it can't do it's job when it needs to act quickly. There must certainly be a middle ground and I'm sure we can do better than this (provided we have all the facts here)
 
2012-08-25 10:10:00 PM  
In light of this, I now think about the USS Vincennes firing a missile at Iran Air Flight 655.
 
2012-08-25 10:12:19 PM  
So she went outside her chain of command to report what she thought was an attempt to start a war. That alone should have had her arrested and fired.

What is this I don't even
 
2012-08-25 10:15:12 PM  
I for one would like to see a successful military coup in the U.S. sort of like like Syria.
Americans killing Americans.
Called it the 2nd. U.S. Civil War. Anything to jarred the average American from their American Idol, Toddlers ^ Tiaras lives.
Americans have forgotten what it is to live in a war torn country.
Americans are apathy toward the rest of the world.
 
2012-08-25 10:16:02 PM  
Shes probably just the victim of one of the unwritten rules of intel circles and has been blackballed:

Don't pretend you don't know what sanctions the guy whos peenering your orifices is breaking, you're in the intel business for chrissakes.
 
2012-08-25 10:18:03 PM  

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: I for one would like to see a successful military coup in the U.S. sort of like like Syria.
Americans killing Americans.
Called it the 2nd. U.S. Civil War. Anything to jarred the average American from their American Idol, Toddlers ^ Tiaras lives.
Americans have forgotten what it is to live in a war torn country.
Americans are apathy toward the rest of the world.


You are a BASTARD. >:-(
 
2012-08-25 10:21:18 PM  
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to read something that indicates individuals may have been working behind the scenes with crass motives of profiteering from war.
www.hongpong.com
 
2012-08-25 10:22:47 PM  
HempHead: -

i.imgur.com

So you're not going to give Iran any credit for killing Americans over the years? Not even the Marines in Lebanon?

Do you even recognize that the Iranians are the biggest state sponsors of global islamic terrorism?
 
2012-08-25 10:39:05 PM  

MeinRS6: So you're not going to give Iran any credit for killing Americans over the years? Not even the Marines in Lebanon?


www.newsmaxstore.com
 
2012-08-25 10:43:19 PM  

Captain Steroid: WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: I for one would like to see a successful military coup in the U.S. sort of like like Syria.
Americans killing Americans.
Called it the 2nd. U.S. Civil War. Anything to jarred the average American from their American Idol, Toddlers ^ Tiaras lives.
Americans have forgotten what it is to live in a war torn country.
Americans are apathy toward the rest of the world.

You are a BASTARD. >:-(


The truth hurts doesn't it?
 
2012-08-25 10:50:24 PM  
BTW, this is what her baby-daddy Cabelly was up to in Sudan. If he was accused of handing over sensitive US information to Sudan, it's not exactly a surprise that Todd's security clearance was pulled. And in a job like that, a contractor is persona non grata without a clearance. 

I assume there is much more to the story than meets the eye.
 
2012-08-25 10:59:00 PM  
iheartscotch

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.

Either that; or they have one big red button labeled WAR.


/ push the button!! 


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-25 11:00:54 PM  

detritus: They also did this type of thing in the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification to get us into Vietnam, too. fark the Military and their unquenchable thirst for blood.

money and power.

better more truthier less dramaticer
 
2012-08-25 11:03:55 PM  

jimmyjackfunk: isn't the strait as well as the majority of the gulf littered with mines that Iran so conveniently placed there back in the 1980 war with Iraq? Or did we manage to get the majority of them cleaned up post Iraq-Iran war?


We didn't. Would be a real shame if a US ship hit a mine and sank. That sort of thing could lead to a war.
 
2012-08-25 11:07:56 PM  

kapaso: Again?


Exactly what I came here to say.
 
2012-08-25 11:08:08 PM  
Wow, what an extremely long article about a typical pompous DC drama queen. It's amazing the DOD hired her in the first place.
 
2012-08-25 11:10:38 PM  

One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Well, it depends on if one side doesnt agree that freedom of navigation applies to the water in question.
 
2012-08-25 11:11:18 PM  

NephilimNexus: jimmyjackfunk: isn't the strait as well as the majority of the gulf littered with mines that Iran so conveniently placed there back in the 1980 war with Iraq? Or did we manage to get the majority of them cleaned up post Iraq-Iran war?

We didn't. Would be a real shame if a US ship hit a mine and sank. That sort of thing could lead to a war.


i couldn't remember if the minesweepers did their job (assuming all they did was clear the strait to allow commerce and if there were any deep inside Iranian territorial waters they left them there. figure something like that it wouldn't be to hard to sneak some out into the water with fast boats under the cover of darkness in an attempt to disable or sink a vessel regardless of what flag they were flying.
 
2012-08-25 11:30:19 PM  

T-Servo: Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.

Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.


Yah... that's sounding like your typical "the police busted so and so for wearing a pink shirt." Well, wearing a pink shirt, while carrying 10 pounds of pot and brandishing an AR-15 rifle through a school yard.

/And how does who she farked have any bearing on the story...
//...except to paint her as an adulterer as well as oppertunist
 
2012-08-25 11:36:15 PM  

ha-ha-guy:
Agreed. Two things jumped out at me. The first was the sending the frigate into the area between Iraq and Iran. That was done after the Iranians captured the crew of a British patrol boat and held them. This would have merely been a middle finger in response to that. Send an Arleigh Burke out with the message of "try to capture this". That was more in the vein of continuing the pissing match, not starting a war.


Point of order. An Arleigh Burke is a Destroyer, not a Frigate. Frigates have about half the crew, a quarter the weapons, and run on one propeller. Given the time period, most likely a Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate.
 
2012-08-25 11:39:20 PM  
According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.

And the sudden movement of THREE big decks would not be noticed by our National Command structure, Allies, regional players, and news media?

Absolute HORSEshiat!
 
2012-08-25 11:43:16 PM  
I'm not an Obamaphile. But it IS an election year. What are the odds an organisation is suggesting the President has lost control, or the faith and "special trust and confidence" of the the military?

ABSOLUTE CRAP.
 
2012-08-25 11:44:16 PM  
Look, it's an interesting article and all, but I really need to know how I can use this against my political opponents before I can make an informed opinion.
 
2012-08-25 11:45:14 PM  

HempHead: cdn2.thinkbynumbers.org



That's some good trolling right there.
 
2012-08-25 11:45:55 PM  
The biographical parts of her personal story made her seem just as dirty as the men she opposed.
I guess if it's true that she helped avoid a war, then she's less evil than them and deserves a high five.
 
2012-08-25 11:59:04 PM  
"Or was hers a classic Washington tale of a strong woman slapped down for standing up to powerful men? "Sisterhood" wasn't a word that came easily to Todd's lips, but now she felt a kinship to Valerie Plame, the CIA operative outed by Bush officials because her diplomat husband challenged their case for invading Iraq."

Except that that is unadulterated bullshiat. Plame was revealed by Richard Armitage, who was known as a moron who tended to reveal classified information just to show how cool/smart/connected he was.

I know it doesn't fit the narrative of a complex White House conspiracy that was built up in the media before Armitage finally came clean, though, so our intrepid reporter ignores history and perpetuates a lie.
 
2012-08-26 12:00:51 AM  

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


Then watch the first Seven Days in May, an excellent film and is really scary thinking this could happen....
 
2012-08-26 12:04:36 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: fark Bush so hard.


Yeah damn him for taking a stand against advisors wanting him to start a war with Iran.
 
2012-08-26 12:09:30 AM  

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


A really good book is "the myth of competence"
 
2012-08-26 12:11:46 AM  
Can someone tell me how a successful intelligence analyst fall for the "Oh sure I'll leave my wife for you, baby." ?
 
2012-08-26 12:12:39 AM  
Who knew a hard hitting article like this could be found in the Lifestyle Section.

Bright, brash, tall and sexy - she had modeling jobs between Berkeley and Georgetown - she seemed destined for a promising career. But she also revealed an early penchant for intrigue.

From there on, her life would seem to unfold as if it were an episode of "Alias" or "Covert Affairs." One time, "I hired a car and driver and drove across the Sinai from Cairo to the Israeli border, with Abba blaring on the stereo and feeling rather like Priscilla, Queen of the Desert," she recalled. Destination: Eliat, on the Red Sea. Mission: scuba diving.


Fark, I am disappoint. This thread should be littered with attention whore pics by now.
 
2012-08-26 12:15:38 AM  

BronyMedic: DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.


Umm... I was talking about the Germans we executed.
 
2012-08-26 12:17:23 AM  

Jon H: I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!


Exactly.

Too many people here think that if we are 'just nice' to countries that hate us and the West everything will be okay.

And far too many here think that peace is the absence of war. It isn't.

There are real threats in the world and the Farkers biatching about this are the same ones that would be biatching and pointing fingers if the military wasn't prepared. The only response they deserve is 'STFU' and the let the adults get on with things.

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Winston Churchill.
 
2012-08-26 12:30:23 AM  

akula: I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.


Would you draw the same conclusion if Iranian warships sailed within 32 miles of the US coastline? Would that act be "not provocative?"
 
2012-08-26 12:37:23 AM  

douchebag/hater: Jon H: I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!

Exactly.

Too many people here think that if we are 'just nice' to countries that hate us and the West everything will be okay.

And far too many here think that peace is the absence of war. It isn't.

There are real threats in the world and the Farkers biatching about this are the same ones that would be biatching and pointing fingers if the military wasn't prepared. The only response they deserve is 'STFU' and the let the adults get on with things."


So those are the only two options in your world? I'm glad you're not the one running anything, whether you think you're an adult or not.
 
2012-08-26 12:38:35 AM  
DrPainMD: Umm... I was talking about the Germans we executed.

No, we did not. We executed them for running a program of mass human experimentation, mass genocide, and for not only being complacent with practices of warfare that would have made even the most barbaric hun blush, but for making murder, slavery, rape, and mayhem the official practice of the German Heer and SS during the Nazi Regime Era.

If you're going to pull a Godwin, you need to research what kind of claim you're making first.
 
2012-08-26 12:43:50 AM  

miss diminutive: I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


Why is that?
 
2012-08-26 12:55:34 AM  

midigod: akula: I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

Would you draw the same conclusion if Iranian warships sailed within 32 miles of the US coastline? Would that act be "not provocative?"


So you got a GED in navigation? 12 miles for sure and 24 miles for environmental, sanitary and customs\immigration controls. Anything beyond that and, unless they are fishing or pulling minerals out of the water (that's 200 miles), they are free to go up and down the coast all year long. They may have an escort some or even all of the time but they won't be stopped or hindered from making passage.
 
2012-08-26 12:59:45 AM  

midigod: akula: I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

Would you draw the same conclusion if Iranian warships sailed within 32 miles of the US coastline? Would that act be "not provocative?"


Russian subs and bombers have been playing chicken with US airspace/waters recently. Should we declare war? What should we do?
 
2012-08-26 01:13:31 AM  
Giltric: midigod: akula: I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

Would you draw the same conclusion if Iranian warships sailed within 32 miles of the US coastline? Would that act be "not provocative?"

Russian subs and bombers have been playing chicken with US airspace/waters recentlyFor the last 60 years.. Should we declare war? What should we do?
 

Fixed that for you. Russian and American ships and planes trying to troll eachother are a proud tradition of our nations.
 
2012-08-26 01:37:06 AM  
Sounds like she wasn't really found out for blowing the whistle, more like Adm. Cosgriff wanted to distance himself from anything involving the fallout from Cabelly's involvement in illegal dealings in Sudan (which brings up the possibility that one of his advising consultants is setting up something similar in Bahrain). Maybe he had a distaste for her but kept her around because he still felt she was an asset, and the mystery $30K she received from Cabelly while she was stationed in Bahrain under Adm. Cosgriff made the Admiral suspicious that she might be up to no good and that was the nail in the coffin.

That sounds more like the Occam's razor version of this story.
 
2012-08-26 01:46:08 AM  

JohnAnnArbor: "Or was hers a classic Washington tale of a strong woman slapped down for standing up to powerful men? "Sisterhood" wasn't a word that came easily to Todd's lips, but now she felt a kinship to Valerie Plame, the CIA operative outed by Bush officials because her diplomat husband challenged their case for invading Iraq."

Except that that is unadulterated bullshiat. Plame was revealed by Richard Armitage, who was known as a moron who tended to reveal classified information just to show how cool/smart/connected he was.

I know it doesn't fit the narrative of a complex White House conspiracy that was built up in the media before Armitage finally came clean, though, so our intrepid reporter ignores history and perpetuates a lie.


hahaha, well in the article she says that she goes through the Coast to Coast AM truther version of conspiracy theories about how it happened. It seems more like she had a baby with the wrong rich dude and his giving her $30K "for an operation," seems pretty suspicious. The lesson here is don't have an affair with someone that's making money by trading with terrorists, take a cash payment while at your post and expect to keep a security clearance job within the US government.

/BTW did anyone else find it odd that they didn't tell us what the operation that she needed was?

conspiracytheory2.com
 
2012-08-26 02:41:40 AM  

Stingy Alpha Wolf King Dude: Who will guard the guards?


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-26 02:44:17 AM  
Hey! I remember that show.

hot  dilo7031.files.wordpress.com 

and totally relevant.
 
2012-08-26 02:54:51 AM  

pedobearapproved: Sounds like she wasn't really found out for blowing the whistle, more like Adm. Cosgriff wanted to distance himself from anything involving the fallout from Cabelly's involvement in illegal dealings in Sudan (which brings up the possibility that one of his advising consultants is setting up something similar in Bahrain). Maybe he had a distaste for her but kept her around because he still felt she was an asset, and the mystery $30K she received from Cabelly while she was stationed in Bahrain under Adm. Cosgriff made the Admiral suspicious that she might be up to no good and that was the nail in the coffin.

That sounds more like the Occam's razor version of this story.


I was going to say much the same, but thank you, kind sir, for your preemtive, and acute summary.
 
2012-08-26 03:32:22 AM  
Preposterous? It had happened before, off North Vietnam in 1964. In the Tonkin Gulf incident, a Navy captain claimed a communist attack on his ship. President Lyndon Johnson swiftly ordered the bombing of North Vietnam, touching off a wider war that turned the country upside down and left more than 58,000 U.S. servicemen dead

Yeah, good thing nobody else died in 'nam. I hate reporting like this.

/USA USA USA
 
2012-08-26 06:22:35 AM  

midigod: akula: I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

Would you draw the same conclusion if Iranian warships sailed within 32 miles of the US coastline? Would that act be "not provocative?"


Actually, I would. We have a blue water Navy that has the capabilities to project power. If Iran could cobble together a ship to get that far it'd only be for one reason..a one-way trip.

There are a lot of problems with this story, least of all there is NO way a 2 carrier battlegroup with an I'm assuming a Wasp class LHD could go anywhere without about 100 higher-ups approving those orders. And even if that COULD happen, this is a story (besides how apparently easy she was) about how she prevented a war. Ok, that waterway is absolutely covered with surface radar. A carrier isn't stealthy, it'll show up more than a skank at a frat party. There would've been no surprise.

If you believe this story, you've never served.

/Air Force I admit, but I did joint duty at the largest waste of office space in the world.
 
2012-08-26 07:40:07 AM  

tmonsta: Can someone tell me how a successful intelligence analyst fall for the "Oh sure I'll leave my wife for you, baby." ?


Seeing as how she got canned, I wouldn't really call her successful.

Beaver Knievel: And the sudden movement of THREE big decks would not be noticed by our National Command structure, Allies, regional players, and news media?


THIS!

Their movement in planned out year in advance. The guy isn't going to sneak them over there without the state Dept knowing about it.
 
2012-08-26 07:55:43 AM  
Carrie Fisher had a real job?

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-26 09:18:39 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: U.S. Central Command ... was itching to push the Iranians,

Military is designed to face threats and react to them aggressively. The Iranians have been perceived as threats for a long time. It's natural for Admirals and Generals to view them so. It's right for their elected overseers to set their agendas. The elected officials should be setting the agenda.


They arent being paid to have views.
 
2012-08-26 10:32:21 AM  

socoloco: They arent being paid to have views.


Sure they are. Who do you think draws up contingency plans for various scenarios/defense? CPAs and MBAs?

Maybe thats why we suck at winning wars....the wrong peoples views are being promoted above those who have actually rolled around in the mud and the blood.
 
2012-08-26 11:16:45 AM  

RoyBatty: Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab,

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x220]


Don't forget the three Big Decks.
 
2012-08-26 11:17:18 AM  

Junzi Nicuzn: FTA:

On the doorstep was a man who introduced himself as "Bill Phelps, a consular officer from the American Embassy."

He explained to Todd and her husband that Chinese hackers had been compromising U.S. passports, and he was warning ex-pat Americans about it. He was at the H's. Could he see her papers, please?

"Mine begins with T," she said. "My name is Todd." She nodded at her husband, Charles. "He's an H."

The man appeared flustered. "Oh, wait, let me think," she recalled him saying. "R, S, T. ... Oh, yeah, T's were compromised, too."

Rookie mistake, with a rookie recovery. My flabber was gasted when I read that part. Some mighty fine intelligence work there.

/the rest was pretty unbelievable as well


That sounded like a scam from the offset. I'm amazed she didn't laugh in his face.

/If this is standard FBI procedures, I can't wait for them to meet the ME generation.
 
2012-08-26 11:23:27 AM  

DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?


Starting a war = cool

Informing others that a war is about to be provoked = treason

Not that I would take advice about criminal law from someone with what sounds like the BTK Killer's web moniker...
 
2012-08-26 11:28:58 AM  

BronyMedic: DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.


I think the general was relieved for writing to congressmen and telling them what a deechbag his boss the President was. Oh, and for being the OIC over two of the USA's biggest military defeats, within six months of each other. And for talking about nuking the Chinese in China without orders, and thereby starting World War III.
 
2012-08-26 11:38:20 AM  

Jon H: I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!


Jawohl das stimmt! Let us push the limit for Fuhrer and Reich!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0GpUgYOEs
 
2012-08-26 11:48:06 AM  

Captain Steroid: WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: I for one would like to see a successful military coup in the U.S. sort of like like Syria.
Americans killing Americans.
Called it the 2nd. U.S. Civil War. Anything to jarred the average American from their American Idol, Toddlers ^ Tiaras lives.
Americans have forgotten what it is to live in a war torn country.
Americans are apathy toward the rest of the world.

You are a BASTARD. >:-(


So? Most Southern males fantasize about fighting in the Confederate army, or being a hillbilly American Arkan.
 
2012-08-26 11:56:52 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Wow, what an extremely long article about a typical pompous DC drama queen. It's amazing the DOD hired her in the first place.


Thank geaawd that drama queens don't get very far in the US military.

http://www.myspace.com/docredfield/photos/54511822#{%22ImageId%22%3A5 4 511822}
 
2012-08-26 12:04:08 PM  

MeinRS6: HempHead: -

[i.imgur.com image 850x283]

So you're not going to give Iran any credit for killing Americans over the years? Not even the Marines in Lebanon?

Do you even recognize that the Iranians are the biggest state sponsors of global islamic terrorism?


He also ignores the fact that it was a misidentified target and they made numerous radio contact attempts before they fired.
 
2012-08-26 12:05:34 PM  

douchebag/hater: Jon H: I'd rather have people pushing the limit than those who want to submit and apologize for everything.

/ex-navy here!

Exactly.

Too many people here think that if we are 'just nice' to countries that hate us and the West everything will be okay.

And far too many here think that peace is the absence of war. It isn't.

There are real threats in the world and the Farkers biatching about this are the same ones that would be biatching and pointing fingers if the military wasn't prepared. The only response they deserve is 'STFU' and the let the adults get on with things.

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Winston Churchill.


So this is the land of the freedums, but the 99.5% who are civvies need to STFU and let Sluggo get his war on at civvie's expense? Nuh uh. Civvie needs to secure freedom by defunding or jailing the military rogue operators. Most societies fall due to domestic folly, not foreign invasion. The US's General Ripper types are a good case in point.
 
2012-08-26 01:10:25 PM  

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


Contradicting a superior in the military is known as a "career-limiting action," so it would be more surprising to me if they weren't all staffed by imbeciles. They self-select for sycophants and psychopaths, there's not much room for the wise leader who asks what he might have overlooked before taking action.
 
2012-08-26 01:49:11 PM  

foxyshadis: miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.

Contradicting a superior in the military is known as a "career-limiting action," so it would be more surprising to me if they weren't all staffed by imbeciles. They self-select for sycophants and psychopaths, there's not much room for the wise leader who asks what he might have overlooked before taking action.


This is beyond stupid. Officers and higher grade NCO's in the military are better educated than the average civilian, and while yes, being insubordinate is "career-limiting" every billet I had was populated by thoughtful, reasonable people. One thing any officer looking for career advancement wants is someone to point out possible pitfalls of their actions. It only takes one mistake to end their advancement. The military hate in this thread is astounding.

/unless you're a troll, in which case 10/10.
 
2012-08-26 04:19:06 PM  

X_Legend: The military hate in this thread is astounding.


Really? This is Fark, ya know.
 
2012-08-26 05:10:17 PM  

X_Legend: foxyshadis: miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.

Contradicting a superior in the military is known as a "career-limiting action," so it would be more surprising to me if they weren't all staffed by imbeciles. They self-select for sycophants and psychopaths, there's not much room for the wise leader who asks what he might have overlooked before taking action.

This is beyond stupid. Officers and higher grade NCO's in the military are better educated than the average civilian, and while yes, being insubordinate is "career-limiting" every billet I had was populated by thoughtful, reasonable people. One thing any officer looking for career advancement wants is someone to point out possible pitfalls of their actions. It only takes one mistake to end their advancement. The military hate in this thread is astounding.

/unless you're a troll, in which case 10/10.


You must have been pretty lucky in your assignments then, or maybe the branch you were in wasn't as bad. During my 6 years in the Air Force, I saw a lot of people promoted more for their ability to kiss ass than actually doing anything relevant to either their normal work or the mission at hand. Of course I was in a nice behind the lines support job, so I can't speak for the SPs or other areas.
 
2012-08-26 08:19:10 PM  
Uh, the woman worked for an Enron associate, Global Crossing.

That caps her credibility at 15%.
 
2012-08-26 08:23:58 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: BronyMedic: DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.

I think the general was relieved for writing to congressmen and telling them what a deechbag his boss the President was. Oh, and for being the OIC over two of the USA's biggest military defeats, within six months of each other. And for talking about nuking the Chinese in China without orders, and thereby starting World War III.


MacArthur? He never did get around to explaining that $500,000 he took out of the Phillipines, and forgot to declare on his taxes...

FDR apparently knew about it, and was holding the info in case Mac. Ever got into politics, since he was Republican. Dunno if Truman ever got told...FDR didn't keep him in the loop 100% , apparently.
 
2012-08-26 11:11:50 PM  
A stitch in time saves nine.

Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.--J.R.R. Tolkien

We may be about to witness the nine stitches.

To reiterate, there are no guarantees in life.
 
2012-08-27 10:43:29 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
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