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(Washington Post)   The US Navy tried to start a war with Iran and didn't tell anyone, including the President   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 138
    More: Scary, U.S. Navy, Iran, Iran-Iraq War, vice admirals, territorial claim, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Council, George H. W. Bush  
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27059 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 8:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-25 01:47:53 PM
Thanks for this, subby. Excellent article.
 
2012-08-25 02:24:31 PM
Who will guard the guards?
 
2012-08-25 02:58:52 PM
That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.
 
2012-08-25 02:59:32 PM
FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)
 
2012-08-25 05:23:29 PM
Todd understands her story sounds improbable

It sounds about par for the course to me.
 
2012-08-25 05:27:01 PM
How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Also 3 carriers (2 aircraft and 1 LHD) will quite simply NEVER sneak up on anyone unannounced.
 
2012-08-25 05:40:27 PM
Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab,

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-25 05:57:32 PM
Sounds like the Navy. They get a little to used to operating out there all by themselves.
 
2012-08-25 06:40:47 PM
The Navy has more to risk than any branch of the service in a war with Iran - at least in the opening day while they are in range of all of Iran's anti-ship missiles.

I can see this woman getting upset with her bosses' policies. I can see her not liking them. I can see her strongly disagreeing with them and wishing that her bosses would change their minds. That is all very believable.

Can I see some admirals trying to instigate a war with Iran at that time? Not so much. The article seems to overlay her opinion of what could happen and used that opinion to describe the intentions of people that did not comment on this story - other than to say "That's BS".
 
2012-08-25 08:50:42 PM
The War on Whistleblowers continues.
 
2012-08-25 08:51:13 PM
I thought it was the Air Force that was full of crazy Christian end-timers?
 
2012-08-25 08:52:46 PM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-08-25 08:52:54 PM
FTA: According to Todd and another witness, Cosgriff's idea, presented in a series of staff meetings, was to sail three "big decks," as aircraft carriers are known, through the Strait of Hormuz - to put a virtual armada, unannounced, on Iran's doorstep. No advance notice, even to Saudi Arabia and other gulf allies. Not only that, they said, Cosgriff ordered his staff to keep the State Department in the dark, too.

To Todd, it was like something straight out of "Seven Days in May," the 1964 political thriller about a right-wing U.S. military coup. A retired senior naval officer familiar with Cosgriff's thinking said the deployment plan was not intended to be provocative.


i253.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-25 08:56:21 PM
Two people who were there said Cosgriff mused in a staff meeting one day that he'd like to steam a Navy frigate up the Shatt al Arab, the diplomatically sensitive and economically crucial waterway dividing Iraq and Iran.


...So, and frat boy with a four wheeler wanted to go tearing across the nerds lawn?
 
2012-08-25 08:56:42 PM

miss diminutive: I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


They're government employees. There are good ones and idiot ones. You generally don't hear about the good ones, unless they're doing something awesome. When you hear about the bad ones...
 
2012-08-25 08:56:56 PM
Forward he cried
from the rear
and the front rank died.
 
2012-08-25 08:57:49 PM

miss diminutive: That whole thing was like reading a bad Tom Clancy novel.

I'm just surprised that so many agencies and military branches sound like they're being staffed by complete imbeciles.


Either that; or they have one big red button labeled WAR.


/ push the button!!
 
2012-08-25 08:57:57 PM
isn't the strait as well as the majority of the gulf littered with mines that Iran so conveniently placed there back in the 1980 war with Iraq? Or did we manage to get the majority of them cleaned up post Iraq-Iran war?
 
2012-08-25 08:58:14 PM
One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


Also 3 carriers (2 aircraft and 1 LHD) will quite simply NEVER sneak up on anyone unannounced.


Much like Gallows Humor, it's all in the context whether it's provocative or not. Real life trolling has much larger consequences.

The plan to do this on the part of the US Navy, to put it in a prospective you can easily relate to, is like going to the politics tab and posting a well-thought out "Just Asking Questions" post on the legitimacy of Obama's citizenship as the first or second post on a green-lit thread, and then setting back and watching the Whargarbl fly.
 
2012-08-25 08:59:11 PM

One Bad Apple: How does freedom of navigation in international waters start a war ?


While I get how Iran could feel this is a provocative act, the US Navy has a habit of doing these freedom of navigation cruises in controversial waters.

Thing is, either those waters are free for the navigation of all, as international waters are supposed to be, or they are not. If they are not, you might as well cede them to the nation who might start something. If they are, then you can sail there at will without so much as a by-your-leave. That's what freedom of navigation means.

Cruising like this is indeed daring the other guy to start something- are they willing to start a war to back up their claim? Sometimes, like with Libya and their Line of Death BS, they'll call the bluff and shoot. Sometimes they just let it go, essentially ceding the claim.

I'm not sure I'd do this with a bunch of carriers at one time, but still, I have a hard time getting my ire up about the US Navy sailing in international waters. If they don't, the waters essentially cannot be viewed as that anymore... you've given them up in practice, if not officially.

If your neighbor puts a shed half on your land, you HAVE to contest it. If you don't, your land is pretty much now his. Enlarge the scale to geopolitics, and there you are. Your neighbor might be a crazy bastard who will want to fight you because you called a lawyer about it, but damn... does that mean you let it go?
 
2012-08-25 08:59:53 PM
I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.
 
2012-08-25 09:00:01 PM
Three carriers off the coast of Iran wouldn't have been the start of the war. It would have been the end of it.

It isn't hard for America to win battles against almost anyone on the Earth. It's winning the peace that is impossible.
 
2012-08-25 09:01:05 PM
After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?
 
2012-08-25 09:03:06 PM
I've read better organized stories by Clancy imitators. Or, the god-forsaken ghost writer that he has working for him now.
 
2012-08-25 09:04:18 PM
Strange article, the Iran thing doesn't seem to be at all connected to her losing her job- that has to do with romantic attachments and dodgy regimes. She comes from DC aristocracy, and half the story is about her bio?

This has less to do with the Navy and provoking Iran than paranoid counter-intel types. It happens a the farking time.
 
2012-08-25 09:04:28 PM
Reading this whole thing - it appears she was an young opportunistic whorish shiatheel who ratted out her boss when things were not going her way. Sucks to be you. $200 fine. Do not pass go.
 
2012-08-25 09:05:23 PM
...all the time
 
2012-08-25 09:05:28 PM

Hobodeluxe: I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.


I can totally see Cheney and Rumsfeld starting a war with Iran and then trying to spin Obama as the crazy, warmongering bastard who started it.
 
2012-08-25 09:07:11 PM

NutWrench: Hobodeluxe: I'll bet Cheney and his PNAC directed Fallon to covertly pull this off if he could. They couldn't have anyone outside their inner circle in on it but Id bet dollars to donuts Cheney and Rummy knew.

I can totally see Cheney and Rumsfeld starting a war with Iran and then trying to spin Obama as the crazy, warmongering bastard who started it.


this was 2007
 
2012-08-25 09:07:12 PM
Some hysterical woman said what?
 
2012-08-25 09:08:11 PM
DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.
 
2012-08-25 09:09:25 PM
FTA:

On the doorstep was a man who introduced himself as "Bill Phelps, a consular officer from the American Embassy."

He explained to Todd and her husband that Chinese hackers had been compromising U.S. passports, and he was warning ex-pat Americans about it. He was at the H's. Could he see her papers, please?

"Mine begins with T," she said. "My name is Todd." She nodded at her husband, Charles. "He's an H."

The man appeared flustered. "Oh, wait, let me think," she recalled him saying. "R, S, T. ... Oh, yeah, T's were compromised, too."


Rookie mistake, with a rookie recovery. My flabber was gasted when I read that part. Some mighty fine intelligence work there.

/the rest was pretty unbelievable as well
 
2012-08-25 09:09:48 PM
No, I would say some of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld's toadies in the Defense Department were told to start a war with Iran and told not to let the State Department find out what was going to happen.

Just like much of what went on in Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
2012-08-25 09:11:02 PM

DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?


Julius and Ethel?
 
2012-08-25 09:12:35 PM
while I was reading this I felt a huge boner from the guys who support wikileaks hitting the floor beneath me. the maneuver happened anyways and nothing occurred. It seemed like a BS story with about a million flowery words for a person that probably got told a story through gossip and decided to be an american hero. Ever heard of the secretary who got too much information and crapped in the punch bowl of their bosses?
 
2012-08-25 09:12:49 PM
Does anyone know what that article was about? I got bogged down in all the adjectives about her modeling career and her handsome Aussie boyfriend.

And pretty much, honey, you did the right thing; but mess with the bull, you're getting the horns sooner or later. Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.
 
2012-08-25 09:13:47 PM
I just 'love' how the article devolves into her life story of being a model in Georgetown and being 'tall, brash and sexy' and able to 'stand up to men'.

Her credibility ended right there.
 
2012-08-25 09:15:23 PM
WTF... This thing reads like a one sided puff piece for this lady. There are serious allegations being raised that need further investigation, but holy shiat.... The ass-kissing its too much... waaaay waaaay too much. It calls into question the credibility of the entire article.
 
2012-08-25 09:16:05 PM

Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.


Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.
 
2012-08-25 09:17:49 PM
fark Bush so hard.
 
2012-08-25 09:18:50 PM

Dr.Zom: I thought it was the Air Force that was full of crazy Christian end-timers?


And Fark's 'Anti-Christian Brigade' is heard from yet once again.

Farking allah, if you people were as suspect about those farking Muslim fanatics who actually declare they want to start a Holy War as you are about benign Christians your opinions would garner a little more respect.

As it is your knee-jerk (and I stress the 'jerk' aspect) anti-Christian comments are boring and juvenile.
 
2012-08-25 09:19:15 PM
Again?
 
2012-08-25 09:20:05 PM

douchebag/hater: I just 'love' how the article devolves into her life story of being a model in Georgetown and being 'tall, brash and sexy' and able to 'stand up to men'.

Her credibility ended right there.


Yeah.. I just skipped that and looked for Cosgriff's name to show up again. "Just the facts mame."
 
2012-08-25 09:20:53 PM

DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this.


Name three.
 
2012-08-25 09:21:40 PM

T-Servo: Gyrfalcon: Whistleblowing isn't good for your career plans.

Neither is accepting money from Sudanese-paid lobbyists with whom you've had an affair. CIs don't see that as cool.


Was that before or after the handsome Aussie boyfriend? Goddamn, I couldn't wade through all the fluff to find the actual story.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:02 PM

MeinRS6: The Navy has more to risk than any branch of the service in a war with Iran - at least in the opening day while they are in range of all of Iran's anti-ship missiles.

I can see this woman getting upset with her bosses' policies. I can see her not liking them. I can see her strongly disagreeing with them and wishing that her bosses would change their minds. That is all very believable.

Can I see some admirals trying to instigate a war with Iran at that time? Not so much. The article seems to overlay her opinion of what could happen and used that opinion to describe the intentions of people that did not comment on this story - other than to say "That's BS".


So much this.

I am not saying this isn't possible, but as another Farker pointed out, you don't exactly sneak aircraft carriers around.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:19 PM

BronyMedic: DrPainMD: After WW2, we executed people for crap like this. What happened to our nads and our sense of right and wrong?

We did? Who?

We executed a whole lot of GIs for Rape and Murder (most of them black, while the whites got lengthy prison terms), and one poor unlucky sod for Desertion, but I don't remember that happening.

We did ruin the career of a Five Star general because he wanted to nuke the Chinese in Northern Korea, though.


He actually went to Congress seeking authority to do so, seriously undermining the President of The United States
 
2012-08-25 09:25:22 PM
U.S. Central Command ... was itching to push the Iranians,

Military is designed to face threats and react to them aggressively. The Iranians have been perceived as threats for a long time. It's natural for Admirals and Generals to view them so. It's right for their elected overseers to set their agendas. The elected officials should be setting the agenda.
 
2012-08-25 09:25:45 PM

Overfiend: I am not saying this isn't possible, but as another Farker pointed out, you don't exactly sneak aircraft carriers around.


Yeah, sealed orders don't exist.
 
2012-08-25 09:27:46 PM

BarkingUnicorn: FTA: the Navy's Inspector General Hotline, which responded that it "will neither confirm, nor deny, receipt of your Hotline complaint via email of 28 Feb 2008."

How Orwellian... or Monty Pythian (Pythonian?)


I'm gonna go with "Kafkaesque".
 
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