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(Huffington Post)   Virginia decides to intertwine standardized testing and race in a way that could never ever be considered controversial   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 129
    More: Fail, secretary of education, No Child Left Behind, state legislators, Congressional Black Caucus, Virginia  
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5671 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Aug 2012 at 2:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-25 12:47:28 PM  
Attractive and Successful Standards of Learning?
 
2012-08-25 01:02:57 PM  
/Facepalm

This is insanely idiotic

Letter to VA governor from black caucus
 
2012-08-25 01:03:48 PM  

cman: /Facepalm

This is insanely idiotic

Letter to VA governor from black caucus


Before anyone gets the wrong idea of my post, I was referring to the policy as idiotic, not the letter from the black caucus.
 
2012-08-25 02:12:45 PM  

Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.

"The ones in the lower grades, if they don't feel like they can do math, they'll give up," Smith told Virginian-Pilot columnist Roger Chelsey, "And some parents say, 'I can't do math, either.'"

And why the hell is "I can't do math" any more socially acceptable than saying "I can't do reading"?
Pardon me while I wander off to collapse into an incoherent rage, now.
 
2012-08-25 02:25:46 PM  
"Please be assured that the McDonnell administration does not hold a student of a particular race or income level, or those of any other subgroup, to a different standard," Fornash wrote in a three-page letter explaining the changed standards.

Forgot to include: ...because all students are equal, but some students are more equal than others.
 
2012-08-25 02:46:55 PM  

abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.


They hint at it every day by comments such as "those welfare bums just need to work harder".
 
2012-08-25 03:00:52 PM  
I wonder how much Romney knows about algebra, calculus, physics, or chemistry.
 
2012-08-25 03:01:26 PM  
I feel bad for the dumb Asian kids. They've just given them a death sentence.
 
2012-08-25 03:02:57 PM  
I hate our Governor. So very, very much.

/Well, alright, hate's a worthless emotion. But I do *detest* him.
 
2012-08-25 03:04:10 PM  

farkityfarker: I wonder how much Romney knows about algebra, calculus, physics, or chemistry.


If Joseph Smith didn't need 'em, neither does he!
 
2012-08-25 03:05:11 PM  

Felgraf: I hate our Governor. So very, very much.

/Well, alright, hate's a worthless emotion. But I do *detest* him.


The sad part is that in comparison to Tim Kaine, McDonnell isn't that bad.
 
TKM
2012-08-25 03:06:15 PM  
A- is still a Chinese F, right?
 
2012-08-25 03:08:10 PM  
They probably felt this was a more honest way to gig standardized testing than just plain answer changing cheating. This highlights more flaws than just the policy in question.
 
2012-08-25 03:08:44 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Felgraf: I hate our Governor. So very, very much.

/Well, alright, hate's a worthless emotion. But I do *detest* him.

The sad part is that in comparison to Tim Kaine, McDonnell isn't that bad.


I admit that I was not here for much of Kaine's tenure (grad student), but did Kaine do as much stupid and just farking tone-deaf/racist stuff?

Like Confederate Remembrance month?
 
2012-08-25 03:08:56 PM  
Wait, I thought this was affirmative action... we're not for this anymore? I missed the memo!
 
2012-08-25 03:09:04 PM  
A controversial education plan in Virginia? That's unpossible!

In Virginia, segregation academies were part of a policy of massive resistance declared by U.S. Senator Harry F. Byrd, Sr., to unite other white Virginian politicians and leaders in taking action to prevent school desegregation after the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision in 1954.

In 1956, the Virginia General Assembly passed a series of laws known as the Stanley plan to implement massive resistance. One of these laws created a program of "tuition grants" which could be given to students so they could attend a private school of their choice. In practice, this meant support of all-white schools that appeared as a response to forced integration, and these newly formed schools became known as the "segregation academies."

Warren County was planning for integration of its only high school, Warren County High School, but the school was closed by the Governor in the Fall of 1958 in the name of massive resistance. Education continued in private and church facilities for that school year. By the Fall of 1959, segregated John S. Mosby Academy (1-12) was constructed and opened, a public high school for black students was built and opened (Criser High School), and WCHS reopened with a significantly reduced white student population and 22 black students. Criser operated until 1966 and Mosby operated through the 1968-69 school year.

When faced with an order to integrate, Prince Edward County closed its entire school system in September 1959 rather than integrate. The county kept its entire school system closed until 1964. Many white students were able to get educated at the newly-created Prince Edward Academy, which operated as the de facto school system, enrolling K-12 students at a number of facilities throughout the county. Even after the re-opening of the public schools, the Academy remained segregated, losing its tax-exempt status in 1978.

Although on January 19, 1959, the Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals struck down the linchpin of the Massive Resistance laws, the one closing schools about to be integrated,[8] individual state tuition grants to parents allowed them to fund the segregation academies. It was not until 1964 that the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed Virginia's tuition grants to private education where the public schools had been closed, such as in Prince Edward County.[9] This decision was effectively the end of the Massive Resistance movement within state governments, and it dealt the segregation academies a fatal blow. Other later rulings put their tax exemption status in jeopardy if they practiced racial discrimination.

Link
 
2012-08-25 03:10:52 PM  

abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.
"The ones in the lower grades, if they don't feel like they can do math, they'll give up," Smith told Virginian-Pilot columnist Roger Chelsey, "And some parents say, 'I can't do math, either.'"
And why the hell is "I can't do math" any more socially acceptable than saying "I can't do reading"?
Pardon me while I wander off to collapse into an incoherent rage, now.


I feel what you are feeling.
 
2012-08-25 03:11:48 PM  

HighOnCraic: A controversial education plan in Virginia? That's unpossible!

In Virginia, segregation academies were part of a policy of massive resistance declared by U.S. Senator Harry F. Byrd, Sr., to unite other white Virginian politicians and leaders in taking action to prevent school desegregation after the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision in 1954.

In 1956, the Virginia General Assembly passed a series of laws known as the Stanley plan to implement massive resistance. One of these laws created a program of "tuition grants" which could be given to students so they could attend a private school of their choice. In practice, this meant support of all-white schools that appeared as a response to forced integration, and these newly formed schools became known as the "segregation academies."

Warren County was planning for integration of its only high school, Warren County High School, but the school was closed by the Governor in the Fall of 1958 in the name of massive resistance. Education continued in private and church facilities for that school year. By the Fall of 1959, segregated John S. Mosby Academy (1-12) was constructed and opened, a public high school for black students was built and opened (Criser High School), and WCHS reopened with a significantly reduced white student population and 22 black students. Criser operated until 1966 and Mosby operated through the 1968-69 school year.

When faced with an order to integrate, Prince Edward County closed its entire school system in September 1959 rather than integrate. The county kept its entire school system closed until 1964. Many white students were able to get educated at the newly-created Prince Edward Academy, which operated as the de facto school system, enrolling K-12 students at a number of facilities throughout the county. Even after the re-opening of the public schools, the Academy remained segregated, losing its tax-exempt status in 1978.

Although on January 19, 1959, the Virginia Supreme C ...


My Fiance's parents had to go to DC to get married, as miscegnation was still illegal in Virginia when they did so.
 
2012-08-25 03:12:14 PM  

Felgraf: FirstNationalBastard: Felgraf: I hate our Governor. So very, very much.

/Well, alright, hate's a worthless emotion. But I do *detest* him.

The sad part is that in comparison to Tim Kaine, McDonnell isn't that bad.

I admit that I was not here for much of Kaine's tenure (grad student), but did Kaine do as much stupid and just farking tone-deaf/racist stuff?

Like Confederate Remembrance month?


Kaine did plenty of stupid, and left the state good and broke. However, he didn't do the borderline racist or woman hating stuff McDonnell does.

Both suck as Governors, but Kaine sucked more.
 
2012-08-25 03:15:17 PM  

abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.
"The ones in the lower grades, if they don't feel like they can do math, they'll give up," Smith told Virginian-Pilot columnist Roger Chelsey, "And some parents say, 'I can't do math, either.'"
And why the hell is "I can't do math" any more socially acceptable than saying "I can't do reading"?
Pardon me while I wander off to collapse into an incoherent rage, now.


I got this in school when I (and my parents) begged for help in Math. There just aren't the same resources for math as for reading because, wait for it, math is hard and it's ok not to be good at it, especially since I'm a girl. Never mind that had I been as disabled in reading, I'd be in special classes, given more attention, more time to take tests, be given more tools, etc. It still pisses me off today. Now I'm almost thirty and couldn't give change without a register or do basic math without a calculator. Luckily, it turns out that you really don't need most of that harder stuff, but I would have liked to have the option. I wanted to be an astronaut. :(
 
2012-08-25 03:17:19 PM  

gadian: math is hard and it's ok not to be good at it, especially since I'm a girl.


This is an attitude that pisses me the fark off. =(. I really think it discourages a lot of girls from the hard sciences-a strong math foundation at an early age is really important, and I want to smack the hell out of people that do that.

Math is hard *BECAUSE IT IS HARD*, not because of the student's gender!

/Also I am peeved that you did not get the help you needed. =(
 
2012-08-25 03:19:00 PM  

GilRuiz1: Wait, I thought this was affirmative action... we're not for this anymore? I missed the memo!


Yes, lowering expectations is exactly what Affirmative Action is all about....

/eyeroll
 
2012-08-25 03:21:18 PM  

cman: cman: /Facepalm

This is insanely idiotic

Letter to VA governor from black caucus

Before anyone gets the wrong idea of my post, I was referring to the policy as idiotic, not the letter from the black caucus.


Not to worry. This is Fark.

Someone will be along shortly to accuse you of being a secret Klan member who wants to re-enslave Africans in order to return to a Konstitutional Khristian Republican Kountry

You really didn't need to paint a bulls-eye for them, they would have found it anyway.
 
2012-08-25 03:22:27 PM  

TKM: A- is still a Chinese F, right?


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-08-25 03:27:44 PM  
So white kids learn about Jebus Freakin christ and non-whites learn about how to make products in private prisons for mere pennies an hour?

/Republicans: Putting undesirables to work, one new prison at a time.
 
2012-08-25 03:30:22 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I feel bad for the dumb Asian kids. They've just given them a death sentence.


No, it's not like affirmative action. It's not actually harder for the Asian students to pass, a higher percentage of them just have to pass for the school to be considered "acceptable." The policy is still moronic for reasons anyone with a brain can see.
 
2012-08-25 03:31:40 PM  

tomWright: cman: cman: /Facepalm

This is insanely idiotic

Letter to VA governor from black caucus

Before anyone gets the wrong idea of my post, I was referring to the policy as idiotic, not the letter from the black caucus.

Not to worry. This is Fark.

Someone will be along shortly to accuse you of being a secret Klan member who wants to re-enslave Africans in order to return to a Konstitutional Khristian Republican Kountry

You really didn't need to paint a bulls-eye for them, they would have found it anyway.


You sound oppressed.
 
2012-08-25 03:40:56 PM  

abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.
"The ones in the lower grades, if they don't feel like they can do math, they'll give up," Smith told Virginian-Pilot columnist Roger Chelsey, "And some parents say, 'I can't do math, either.'"
And why the hell is "I can't do math" any more socially acceptable than saying "I can't do reading"?
Pardon me while I wander off to collapse into an incoherent rage, now.


So very much this. I have a niece who teaches in Ohio's Meth Country. 100% of her classes are white, but many of the kids have some sort of issues, and almost all of the kids with issues come from poorer families. It's not just lack of money. Often mommy is not living with daddy. There's always at least a couple of kids who have a parent in jail. Many parents are not invested in their children's education, and my niece often brings morning snacks like granola bars and yogurt because kids come to school without breakfast, Some kids go through an Ohio winter without proper winter clothing. And these kids do not test well compared to the kids whose parents are middle class.
 
2012-08-25 03:47:54 PM  
Ahhh, math. How I hate you, yet you are my primary tool of work, so I must be good at it.
 
2012-08-25 03:48:27 PM  
christ, sounds like democratic policies taken to their logical conclusion.
 
2012-08-25 03:51:19 PM  

relcec: christ, sounds like democratic policies taken to their logical conclusion.


Did you skip over the link to the letter from Democratic lawmakers protesting this decision?
 
2012-08-25 03:53:12 PM  

HighOnCraic: You sound oppressed.


Just cynically realistic. Which is pretty much the same thing so why quibble?
 
2012-08-25 03:55:10 PM  

tomWright: HighOnCraic: You sound oppressed.

Just cynically realistic. Which is pretty much the same thing so why quibble?


Wow, you white guys sure have it rough. Is there a fund I can donate to?
 
2012-08-25 03:56:59 PM  
The reasoning behind the percentage goals are laughable. Based on precident? Yeah, the precident of melonin in the kid's skin. I would love to see how they categorize adopted kids.

How about taking early schooling into account. Set the test to find the bottom half of students in 9th grade. Then, retest two or three years later. If half of those kids have marketable skills in an educated workforce, then throw some money their way. If they dont, then throw some new teachers their way, and throw some infrastructure into the community.

I understand lofty goals are hard to reach, but lets not play limbo with graduation rates.
 
2012-08-25 03:59:38 PM  
It's not actually a terrible idea. Part of the problem with tying school dollars to performance is Simpson's Paradox - there can be other factors other than school quality that play larger roles in academic success.

For example, consider Urban School A. It serves a population of students that tend, on average, to pass a particular exam at a 20% rate. These teachers work very hard and get their population of students up to a 40% passing rate.

Now consider Private School B. It serves a population that tends, on average, to pass that same exam at an 80% rate. Their students, however, only pass the exam at a 60% rate.

Just by the numbers alone, you'd say Private School B is doing a better job - after all, their 60% rate is better than the 40% rate of Urban School A. However, in reality, Urban School A's numbers are twice as good as predicted, and Private School B's numbers are 25% lower than would be predicted, based on the population of students each serves. Urban School A is actually doing a better job than Private School B.

The problem with just using student scores to rate the quality of an educational facility is that the quality of the school is only one factor out of many - and not even the most important factor - that determines how successful the student will be. I went to a private high school that prided itself on how well its students did academically. The biggest secret to their success, though, was that they took only one out of four applicants, and they expelled anyone who didn't continue to meet their academic standards. Their students did very well because they only took students who would have done very well in any school, not because their instruction was substantially better than any other school.
 
2012-08-25 04:00:37 PM  
Virginia's new achievement standards have raised eyebrows.

Are you sure? They may have just plucked their real eyebrows and drawn in new ones really high on their forehead.
 
2012-08-25 04:02:02 PM  
As someone who lives in Virginia (shudder) and hates McDonnell and Cucinelli with passion, I have to say that I am surprised by the relative lack of controversy surrounding this latest stupidity. It is as if the Republicans in Virginia have sunk so low that a half-assed idea, poorly executed, is met with a sigh of relief.
 
2012-08-25 04:04:39 PM  

HighOnCraic: relcec: christ, sounds like democratic policies taken to their logical conclusion.

Did you skip over the link to the letter from Democratic lawmakers protesting this decision?



ok, so you are saying the same politicians who argue that if someone has a significant enough amount of melanin in their skin or a pair of ovaries then employers and schools should hire or admit them over more qualified candidates born of the wrong sex or skin color are being hypocritical in not supporting this ridiculousness.

you don't think you are adding anything to the conversation by pointing out democrats are craven hypocrites, do you?
 
2012-08-25 04:05:46 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: It's not actually a terrible idea. Part of the problem with tying school dollars to performance is Simpson's Paradox - there can be other factors other than school quality that play larger roles in academic success.

For example, consider Urban School A. It serves a population of students that tend, on average, to pass a particular exam at a 20% rate. These teachers work very hard and get their population of students up to a 40% passing rate.

Now consider Private School B. It serves a population that tends, on average, to pass that same exam at an 80% rate. Their students, however, only pass the exam at a 60% rate.

Just by the numbers alone, you'd say Private School B is doing a better job - after all, their 60% rate is better than the 40% rate of Urban School A. However, in reality, Urban School A's numbers are twice as good as predicted, and Private School B's numbers are 25% lower than would be predicted, based on the population of students each serves. Urban School A is actually doing a better job than Private School B.

The problem with just using student scores to rate the quality of an educational facility is that the quality of the school is only one factor out of many - and not even the most important factor - that determines how successful the student will be. I went to a private high school that prided itself on how well its students did academically. The biggest secret to their success, though, was that they took only one out of four applicants, and they expelled anyone who didn't continue to meet their academic standards. Their students did very well because they only took students who would have done very well in any school, not because their instruction was substantially better than any other school.



see, here's an idiot on your side who is willing to stand up for his f*cked up principles. good for you douchebag.
 
2012-08-25 04:06:05 PM  

abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is.


HAHAHA!! Delusional derp is my favorite kind. You probably really believe that too. BWAHAHAHAHA!!
 
2012-08-25 04:07:13 PM  
well that certainly sounds like a terrible idea
 
2012-08-25 04:10:55 PM  
The unfortunate reality is that african american and latino students do very poorly in all the STEM subjects. The 'moral' view, according to many, is that this strictly a matter of environment and opportunity, not one of potential. This is just wishful thinking, likely. That's not to say that genetics are the only thing here at play, surely environment is important. But the truth is probably something closer to a genes + environment combo.

But there is no escaping it: as far as genetics go, these races are less able to perform, generally, no matter what their environment. The gap between the races shrinks only a little when black/latino and white children attend the same schools. It is also true that the gap shrinks only a little when black/latino and white families have the same amount of schooling, the same income, and the same wealth. It's not racist, it's nature. They are generally less able, and the system should make allowances for that fact.
 
2012-08-25 04:12:42 PM  
I would guess that VA has different test expectation for various "retarded" groups such as downs, fetal-alcohol, autism etc. (that is if they are considered part of the school system - in many locations they are).

If so this just extends such a lower-expectation because of innate causes to essentially grading races as to how retarded they are.
 
2012-08-25 04:15:13 PM  
Why is this a problem for liberals? This is simply the ultimate conclusion of Affirmative Action. They're doing exactly what you demanded.

It's never enough for liberals. They just prefer being perpetually butt hurt.
 
2012-08-25 04:17:13 PM  

HighOnCraic: tomWright: HighOnCraic: You sound oppressed.

Just cynically realistic. Which is pretty much the same thing so why quibble?

Wow, you white guys sure have it rough. Is there a fund I can donate to?


Sure, the TF Sponsorship Bailout Fund. Just because you poor folks can't afford it is no reason you cannot support those of us too big for the FAIL tag.
 
2012-08-25 04:22:58 PM  

themindiswatching: abb3w: Race isn't the root problem. Poverty is. But there's no way a Republican can even hint at that.

They hint at it every day by comments such as "those welfare bums just need to work harder".


And they actually provide policies that work, such as the increased graduation rates among those in poverty who are given vouchers for school choice. Go to DC, New York, Indiana, and tell those parents who have been given the ability to put their children into better schools that you want to take that opportunity away because a teacher's union is more important. Democrats continue to block proven successful voucher programs because of their protection of teacher's unions. You can't point fingers when liberals are blocking one of the most successful education programs out there.
 
2012-08-25 04:26:23 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: It's not actually a terrible idea. Part of the problem with tying school dollars to performance is Simpson's Paradox - there can be other factors other than school quality that play larger roles in academic success.


That's not Simpson's paradox.

Simpson's paradox would be:

School A has two classes, A1 and A2. School B has two classes, B1 and B2.

A1 has a higher passing percentage than B1 and A2 has a higher passing percentage than B2. But in total, school A beats school B.

How? Say A1 has 9/10 students pass, B1 has 80/100, A2 has 10/100, and B2 has 0/10.

In total, A is 19/110 and B is 80/110. B beats A. But A1 beats B1 and A2 beats B2. That's Simpson's paradox.

What you described is "there are other factors."
 
2012-08-25 04:30:50 PM  
FTA: "To create new objectives, the state analyzed how students in every group did on math tests in 2011-2012 and on reading tests in 2010-2011. Groups that did better have higher goals and groups that did poorly have lower goals. The pass rates will increase every year for all groups, with a goal of cutting the achievement gap between lower- and higher-performing groups in half within six years, according to the state."

I don't have a problem with this. It tells the low-achievers, "Look, you're behind. We're going to beat the crap out of you to make you catch up."
 
2012-08-25 04:33:38 PM  
FTA: "Nothing is going to work for me if there is a differentiation being established for different groups of students," Locke said. "Whether that's race, socio-economic status or intellectual ability. If there is a differentiation, I have a problem with it."

Your problem is with the kids who exhibit differentiation, not with those who report it.

Ignoring reality seldom turns out well.
 
2012-08-25 04:37:57 PM  

MyRandomName: New York


New York is one of the highest-unionized states in the country, they have the Regents diploma which is one of the highest standards in the country. New York students are successful BECAUSE of this, not despite it. I know, because I graduated with a Regents with honors.
 
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