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(BBC-US)   For downloading and distributing 31 songs when he was 16 years old, file-sharer ordered by judge to pay $675,000.00   (bbc.com) divider line 327
    More: Asinine, Joel Tenenbaum, federalisms, new trial  
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14411 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2012 at 12:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-25 05:33:50 AM
Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.
 
2012-08-25 07:10:04 AM

Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

 
2012-08-25 07:49:23 AM

ginandbacon: Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

 
2012-08-25 08:34:48 AM
I'm sure Hilary Rosen's toasting the results. Celebrate with her, the RIAA has curb-stomped a file downloader. The starved record labels coffers will soon overflow with the tears of ten thousand copyright infringers.
 
2012-08-25 08:39:57 AM

Barfmaker: ginandbacon: Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

 
2012-08-25 08:40:34 AM
In court Mr Tenenbaum had admitted to file-sharing around 800 songs.

"I used the computer. I uploaded, I downloaded music," he said.


He should be glad that the RIAA didn't go after him for millions of $$$.
 
2012-08-25 08:55:59 AM
And how do they think he'll ever come up with that kind of money?

Actual criminals seldom pay restitution so I don't follow why this kid has to pay for the imagined loss at issue here.
 
2012-08-25 08:57:47 AM

edmo: And how do they think he'll ever come up with that kind of money?

Actual criminals seldom pay restitution so I don't follow why this kid has to pay for the imagined loss at issue here.


Can it be discharged through bankruptcy court? He's young, his credit would recover from that.
 
2012-08-25 08:59:04 AM
That seems wildly disproportionate...
He should give them $39.99 and tell them to go record something worth paying for.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-25 09:09:12 AM
$21774 per song. Sounds fair.
 
2012-08-25 09:13:20 AM
What the farkity fark fark...this is mob-with-torches-and-pitchforks levels of injustice
 
2012-08-25 09:17:24 AM
In the past he has refused to take donations from supporters keen to help with the fine.

"This lawsuit was against me. This is my verdict," he wrote on his blog.


No, its bigger than you. The chilling effect is intended for everyone. Take some money and lawyer up, bro. Appeal time.
 
2012-08-25 09:22:21 AM

Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.


The case has been reviewed by multiple courts and an appeal was turned down by the Supreme Court.

// You seem to think that the concept of fairness is encoded in the legal system somewhere.
 
2012-08-25 09:39:32 AM

notmtwain: Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

The case has been reviewed by multiple courts and an appeal was turned down by the Supreme Court.

// You seem to think that the concept of fairness is encoded in the legal system somewhere.


I never said, suggested, or implied that.
 
2012-08-25 09:40:16 AM

notmtwain: The case has been reviewed by multiple courts and an appeal was turned down by the Supreme Court.


ugh.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-25 09:46:51 AM

notmtwain: Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

The case has been reviewed by multiple courts and an appeal was turned down by the Supreme Court.

// You seem to think that the concept of fairness is encoded in the legal system somewhere.


The whole lawmakers having to run for election thing was supposed to take care of that. Unfortunately, the founding fathers had never heard of lobbyists.
 
2012-08-25 10:37:27 AM
why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?
 
2012-08-25 10:38:44 AM

Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?


Because home of the free?
 
2012-08-25 10:45:29 AM

RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?

Because home of the free?


i'm sure there's some legal wibbely wobbley timey wimey stuff that says you can apply US law to a UK citizen for doing things in the UK and make it all square...but I have to ask: what would the GOP (and tea party) think if say...Russia or China....could prosecute US citizens for breaking Chinese or Russian laws for their actions here in the US and then fine or imprison US citizens in foreign jails...? do you think they'd stand for that sort of thing?
 
2012-08-25 10:48:20 AM

EvilEgg: edmo: And how do they think he'll ever come up with that kind of money?

Actual criminals seldom pay restitution so I don't follow why this kid has to pay for the imagined loss at issue here.

Can it be discharged through bankruptcy court? He's young, his credit would recover from that.


No, judgements can't be discharged in bankruptcy. They can garnish every paycheck he ever earns, and every bank account he ever opens.
 
2012-08-25 10:50:03 AM
Meh, bankruptcy. Have to live with his parents for a while but at least they won't get squat.
 
2012-08-25 10:52:02 AM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?

Because home of the free?

i'm sure there's some legal wibbely wobbley timey wimey stuff that says you can apply US law to a UK citizen for doing things in the UK and make it all square...but I have to ask: what would the GOP (and tea party) think if say...Russia or China....could prosecute US citizens for breaking Chinese or Russian laws for their actions here in the US and then fine or imprison US citizens in foreign jails...? do you think they'd stand for that sort of thing?


Not sure about the UK but in Australia, who has basis of law on the UK system, you can certainly look to US law for direction. US law doesn't apply here though.

I'd imagine it's the same in the UK.
 
2012-08-25 10:57:49 AM

Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?


Joel Tenenbaum (born December 25, 1983) is from Providence, Rhode Island
British citizen from RI?
 
2012-08-25 11:01:44 AM
It would be kind of funny if the judge reduced the award to $62.
 
2012-08-25 11:03:18 AM
As long as we keep going after these terrible pirates like this, the scourge of illegal file sharing will soon be wiped out.

Just like illegal drugs.
 
2012-08-25 11:06:41 AM
You've got to be pretty unlucky to be the one that gets this judgement against you when the entire planet is downloading music. So he's got that going for him.
 
2012-08-25 11:18:41 AM
Honestly, if you're going to sue, then sue for the cost of the CD and maybe the court costs, but not the millions of dollars.

The Courts are nothing but the gestapo of the corporations
 
2012-08-25 11:21:21 AM
Even if I grant any sort of damages are justified here, here's what I think they should be: How much do those 800 songs cost on iTunes or any other online sevice? $800, maybe around $1K if some of them cost $1.29?

There's your damages. This bullshiat of having the law allow upwards of $100K in damages for every song shared is ludicrous and absolutely excessive punishment.
 
2012-08-25 11:25:13 AM

Bontesla: notmtwain: Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.

The case has been reviewed by multiple courts and an appeal was turned down by the Supreme Court.

// You seem to think that the concept of fairness is encoded in the legal system somewhere.

I never said, suggested, or implied that.


True, however by stating that this was an injustice, you implied a judgement based on reason.

// Sorry for assuming that reason was involved.
 
2012-08-25 11:25:23 AM
Complete tracklist based on the official court documents:

01 - Incubus - New Skin
02 - Green Day - Minority
03 - Outkast - Wheelz of Steel
04 - Incubus - Pardon Me
05 - Nirvana - Come As You Are

06 - Green Day - When I Come Around
07 - Green Day - Nice Guys Finish Last
08 - Nirvana - Heart Shaped Box
09 - Nine Inch Nails - The Perfect Drug
10 - Blink 182 - Adam's Song
11 - Limp Bizkit - Rearranged
12 - Limp Bizkit - Leech
13 - Linkin Park - Crawling Hybrid
14 - Deftones - Be Quiet And Drive
15 - The Fugees - Killing Me Softly
16 - Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication
17 - Red Hot Chili Peppers - By The Way
18 - Red Hot Chili Peppers - My Friends
19 - Beck - Loser
20 - Eminem - My Name Is
21 - Eminem - Drug Ballad
22 - Eminem - Cleaning Out My Closet
23 - Beastie Boys - (You Gotta) Fight for Your Right (To Party)
24 - The Ramones - The KKK Took My Baby Away
25 - Monster Magnet - Look To Your Orb For The Warning
26 - Aerosmith - Pink
27 - OutKast - Rosa Parks
28 - Rage Against The Machine - Guerrilla Radio
29 - Goo Goo Dolls - Iris
30 - Aerosmith - Water Song/Janie's Got A Gun
 
2012-08-25 11:30:26 AM

sno man: Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?

Joel Tenenbaum (born December 25, 1983) is from Providence, Rhode Island
British citizen from RI?


I wonder if we've got a long form birth certificate for him....
 
2012-08-25 11:52:37 AM

Weaver95: do you think they'd stand for that sort of thing?


Yes, if it's a "crime" they don't agree with.
 
2012-08-25 11:53:33 AM

keithgabryelski: Complete tracklist based on the official court documents:


I wouldn't pay $6.75 for that album.
 
2012-08-25 11:55:29 AM

Weaver95: sno man: Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?

Joel Tenenbaum (born December 25, 1983) is from Providence, Rhode Island
British citizen from RI?

I wonder if we've got a long form birth certificate for him....


It'd be fake anyway, I can tell by the pixels.
 
2012-08-25 11:58:57 AM

EvilEgg: Can it be discharged through bankruptcy court? He's young, his credit would recover from that.



No.  But he's probably judgement proof.  And I think fines (at least in the US) go away after 10 years.  They can garnish his wages to a certain point, and put leins on his property (though he probably doesn't have any).
 
Maybe a real lawyer can clarify more.
 
2012-08-25 12:08:07 PM

Bontesla: Yeah, by the way, this is what injustice looks like.


I know. In a perfect world he'd suffer as much pain as he caused in others--in this case, by being drawn and quartered after a night trapped in a cage with sexually frustrated walruses. But that's not how the system works. I take some comfort in the knowledge that he will surely burn in hell for what he did to... um... Linkin Park.
 
2012-08-25 12:18:12 PM

Party Boy: In the past he has refused to take donations from supporters keen to help with the fine.

"This lawsuit was against me. This is my verdict," he wrote on his blog.


No, its bigger than you. The chilling effect is intended for everyone. Take some money and lawyer up, bro. Appeal time.


Yes, he should appeal, which is to say he should let some activist lawyers use his name for the lawsuits they were going to bring anyway, assuming his case is the best one for that. But it may very well be that for ticky-tack technical legal reasons, some other guy's illegal downloading case is the one that has exactly the right combination of factors to blow up the law. It's not like there's any shortage of them out there.

Meanwhile, he's not taking donations because the fine is bigger than any amount he could possibly raise, which means that his donors would just be giving their money directly to the labels for no reason. This has been going on since he was 16, and he's 25 now. I'm guessing his lawyers made it very clear to him that under no circumstances should he acquire any net worth whatsoever until this was resolved.
 
2012-08-25 12:25:22 PM
Let this be a lesson for all of you: no one gives a shiat if you download MP3's illegally; it is when you are uploading them do they really give a shiat.
 
2012-08-25 12:30:44 PM
Or you can go on Rhapsody/Crapster and download them legally... then have a program that breaks the DRM

/Just sayin'
 
2012-08-25 12:31:23 PM

Trance750: Or you can go on Rhapsody/Crapster and download them legally... then have a program that breaks the DRM

/Just sayin'


Spotify is awesome
 
2012-08-25 12:34:13 PM

cman: Trance750: Or you can go on Rhapsody/Crapster and download them legally... then have a program that breaks the DRM

/Just sayin'

Spotify is awesome


I wouldn't know anything about that. No, nothing at all

/whistles
 
2012-08-25 12:44:41 PM
The amount is excessive and almost certainly will be reduced upon appeal.

The message is clear, however. Do not freaking do this or you run the risk of this kind of outcome. Stop whining about your non right to take what is not yours to take under the law, and either work to change the law or shut up.

Seriously, stop whining about this.
 
2012-08-25 12:58:02 PM

sno man: Weaver95: why is a US court putting a british citizen on trial for 'crimes' allegedly committed in another country?

Joel Tenenbaum (born December 25, 1983) is from Providence, Rhode Island
British citizen from RI?


Well, you know, the British media seldom bothers reporting on U. S. citizens. So it's an understandable assumption.
 
2012-08-25 01:01:20 PM
 
2012-08-25 01:02:44 PM
They'l never catch me.

i0.kym-cdn.com 

/yes, I screwed up my previous post. I suck at posting. In my defense, the coffee does nothing.
 
2012-08-25 01:02:47 PM

cman: Trance750: Or you can go on Rhapsody/Crapster and download them legally... then have a program that breaks the DRM

/Just sayin'

Spotify is awesome


There's plenty that do the same without a shiatty facebook requirement.

/fark facebook
 
2012-08-25 01:03:33 PM
Was he found guilty because he downloaded the songs, or because he shared them (allowed others to download from him)?
 
2012-08-25 01:05:37 PM

bronyaur1: The amount is excessive and almost certainly will be reduced upon appeal.


Appeals are all over. Trial judge reduced award to $67,500. Appellate court reinstated $675K. Supreme Court refused to hear further appeal. Now request for retrial has been rejected.

He's done.
 
2012-08-25 01:05:49 PM
Yes.... but will he take donations now? :P
 
2012-08-25 01:06:12 PM

keithgabryelski: 01 - Incubus - New Skin


From a great album. Not such a great single.
 
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