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(MSNBC)   China has finally produced far more cheap, toxic crap than it can possibly sell   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 22
    More: Unlikely, economic slowdown, United States, finished goods, toy stores, iron ores, Premier Wen Jiabao, franchisee, East China  
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2729 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Aug 2012 at 2:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-24 01:19:45 PM
I see this as both good and bad. The good is we have stopped buying so much crap we don't need. The bad of course, is we don't need that large of an economy to fail and drag us under...
 
2012-08-24 02:51:20 PM
Yay, more cheap stuff for me to buy on Meritline!
 
2012-08-24 02:59:17 PM

truthseeker2083: I see this as both good and bad. The good is we have stopped buying so much crap we don't need. The bad of course, is we don't need that large of an economy to fail and drag us under...


Drag us under? Shirley you jest!? Any attack made by the Chinese against the US economy would be a useless gesture, no matter how much sovereign debt they have obtained. The Unites States is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it!

/with apologies to Admiral Motti
//not afraid of our Chinese overlords
///China 2012 = Japan 1990
 
2012-08-24 03:01:24 PM
Oh yeah, I was going to add...

////Brazil OTOH
 
2012-08-24 03:11:21 PM
China has a problem that they have no farking clue what to do now that they can no longer artificially grow their economy. The Euro zone crises is slowing the global economy at the same time the US economy is slowing and it looks like another recession is going to happen.
 
2012-08-24 03:15:31 PM

Slaves2Darkness: China has a problem that they have no farking clue what to do now that they can no longer artificially grow their economy. The Euro zone crises is slowing the global economy at the same time the US economy is slowing and it looks like another recession is going to happen.


It's almost like the whole foundation of our economic system is flawed.
 
2012-08-24 03:29:44 PM

GranoblasticMan: Slaves2Darkness: China has a problem that they have no farking clue what to do now that they can no longer artificially grow their economy. The Euro zone crises is slowing the global economy at the same time the US economy is slowing and it looks like another recession is going to happen.

It's almost like the whole foundation of our economic system is flawed.


Pfffft. Let it ride!
 
2012-08-24 03:36:31 PM
The Little Red Book 1947: The comrades throughout the Party must take all this fully into account and be prepared to overcome all difficulties with an indomitable will and in a planned way. The reactionary forces and we both have difficulties. But the difficulties of the reactionary forces are insurmountable because they are forces on the verge of death and have no future. Our difficulties can be overcome because we are new and rising forces and have a bright future.

China Automobile Dealers Association 2012: "We call on manufacturers to be highly concerned about dealer inventories, and to take timely and effective measures to actively digest inventory, especially taking into account the financial strain on distributors, as manufacturers have to provide the necessary financing support to help dealers ride out the storm,"

Welcome to the future guys!
 
2012-08-24 03:38:30 PM

GranoblasticMan: Slaves2Darkness: China has a problem that they have no farking clue what to do now that they can no longer artificially grow their economy. The Euro zone crises is slowing the global economy at the same time the US economy is slowing and it looks like another recession is going to happen.

It's almost like the whole foundation of our economic system is flawed.


I wouldn't go that far. Economic systems go through corrections. With huge bubbles, it takes a lot of time to unwind. There are still flaws with what people do (e.g. Investing in products nobody understands that are evaluated using models not designed for them), but things still work.

I think the problemis mainly one of expectations. When the great recession started, there were economists saying it'll take a decade to recover. We've still got some years to go, and it won't matter much who is in charge or which policies are in place. That's not to say there aren't things that will soften the situation for people and encourage growth of which creating a more certain regulatory and taxation environment would help greatly; it's just that it'll still take as long as it takes to unwind bad decisions from before this started.
 
2012-08-24 03:53:00 PM
FTA: "The severity of China's inventory overhang has been carefully masked by the blocking or adjusting of economic data by the Chinese government - all part of an effort to prop up confidence in the economy among business managers and investors. "

So, they've been taking economic advice from us, eh?
 
2012-08-24 04:08:20 PM

AcademGreen: GranoblasticMan: Slaves2Darkness: China has a problem that they have no farking clue what to do now that they can no longer artificially grow their economy. The Euro zone crises is slowing the global economy at the same time the US economy is slowing and it looks like another recession is going to happen.

It's almost like the whole foundation of our economic system is flawed.

I wouldn't go that far. Economic systems go through corrections. With huge bubbles, it takes a lot of time to unwind. There are still flaws with what people do (e.g. Investing in products nobody understands that are evaluated using models not designed for them), but things still work.

I think the problemis mainly one of expectations. When the great recession started, there were economists saying it'll take a decade to recover. We've still got some years to go, and it won't matter much who is in charge or which policies are in place. That's not to say there aren't things that will soften the situation for people and encourage growth of which creating a more certain regulatory and taxation environment would help greatly; it's just that it'll still take as long as it takes to unwind bad decisions from before this started.


I mostly agree, but regulation and taxation has little to do with the sluggish US recovery. Our recession was so severe because consumers were finally forced to deleverage themselves en masse when it suddenly became impossible to refinance revolving debt into their mortgages. Productivity gains are keeping business profits very high even though revenues aren't much higher than 5 years ago. Which is great, otherwise things get really bad when everyone sees their 401(k) vanish.

Inflationary policy on the part of the Fed would help tremendously, so that wages would rise and debt payments would not take up as much household budget. But that ain't happening, quite the contrary. So we're stuck waiting for people to finish paying off Master Card. And waiting for enough Baby Boomers to retire so the rest of us are more in demand and can get a damn raise that outpaces inflation for once.

And both of those will take some years yet.
 
2012-08-24 04:13:01 PM
i blame Nixon
 
2012-08-24 04:23:55 PM
supply-side economics much?
 
2012-08-24 10:32:19 PM
Conservatives have been talking about China as being the model for unregulated capitalism for years now. Are they going to change their tune can blame the libs or are they going to admit that granting unfettered economic control to industry is a bad idea?
 
2012-08-24 11:46:32 PM
My employer has recently stopped ordering pre-fabbed granite countertops from China. We always had to fix them for our picky (rightly so) American customers. Cutting, and fabbing raw slab material from local suppliers now. This is the right way to ensure customer satisfaction, and as a custom fabricator i couldn't be happier. /China "blanks" always appeared as if they were fabbed by a drunken, blind, retarded village monkey/
 
2012-08-25 12:23:36 AM
I blame that f**ksh*t Reagan.
 
2012-08-25 04:20:48 AM

Ooba Tooba: My employer has recently stopped ordering pre-fabbed granite countertops from China. We always had to fix them for our picky (rightly so) American customers. Cutting, and fabbing raw slab material from local suppliers now. This is the right way to ensure customer satisfaction, and as a custom fabricator i couldn't be happier. /China "blanks" always appeared as if they were fabbed by a drunken, blind, retarded village monkey/


For the same price?

Stone isn't a big deal in China, you see it everywhere. On the street, in just about every building, the kitchen cabinets themselves are often made of stone, while for the counter top? Engineered stone is considered "better."

It's considered cheap stuff. So there's that.
 
2012-08-25 07:19:34 AM

sendtodave: Ooba Tooba: My employer has recently stopped ordering pre-fabbed granite countertops from China. We always had to fix them for our picky (rightly so) American customers. Cutting, and fabbing raw slab material from local suppliers now. This is the right way to ensure customer satisfaction, and as a custom fabricator i couldn't be happier. /China "blanks" always appeared as if they were fabbed by a drunken, blind, retarded village monkey/

For the same price?

Stone isn't a big deal in China, you see it everywhere. On the street, in just about every building, the kitchen cabinets themselves are often made of stone, while for the counter top? Engineered stone is considered "better."

It's considered cheap stuff. So there's that.


It appeared cheaper for awhile until you factored the wages, and shop cost of fixing the product. We broke even after all was said and done. A significant plus for us is there is usually enough material left from "slab formed" kitchens to get a few vanity tops out as well. The stone itself is also a better grade.
 
2012-08-25 07:41:56 AM
*engineered stone* hospitals and the like use it for sterile purposes (granite is porous) but in 10 years of doing this, i have seen only 1 or 2 staining issues, and never heard of someone becoming "sick" on account of their counters. From a Fabricators standpoint i loathe engineered stone because of the overwhelming stench of the bonding agents while you cut, and Fab it. I have worked with several different brands of the stuff, and have yet to see any that has nearly the visual "depth" of natural stone. For beauty, mother nature wins:)
 
2012-08-25 08:41:58 AM

StoneColdAtheist: ///China 2012 = Japan 1990


Um, no. If it looks that way, it's because you're listening to idiots whose only lesson they get from any sort of economic condition is that their own failure to achieve their impractical financial goals is some other country's fault.
 
2012-08-25 11:13:51 AM

dragonchild: StoneColdAtheist: ///China 2012 = Japan 1990

Um, no. If it looks that way, it's because you're listening to idiots whose only lesson they get from any sort of economic condition is that their own failure to achieve their impractical financial goals is some other country's fault.


You misinterpreted my literary graphic. I referred to fears China is somehow poised to "take over the world" economically, based on its incredible manufacturing prowess, similar to like fears expressed during the late 80's about Japan.

In fact, China is running into the same export growth wall Japan did, and no amount of internal infrastructural investment can make up the difference. China now faces even greater challenges than Japan did because it has brought nowhere near the same percentage of its population into the middle class economy. 700,000 million Chinese peasants are still living in abject poverty in the countryside with no hope of improving their lot in life.

Moreover, China's infrastructure investments have also stalled out as well, and it faces the near certainty of a US-style collapse of its banking and housing sectors. When the dust settles, China will be luck to roll back only a decade, and arguably lucky to avoid a radical and violent change of government.

I would not want to be in China, nor invested in China for the foreseeable future.
 
2012-08-26 07:22:01 PM

StoneColdAtheist: 700,000 million Chinese peasants...


That's a lot of peasants.
 
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