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(CNN) NewsFlash The United States: 0 Days Since Last Mass Casualty Shooting   (cnn.com ) divider line 1064
    More: NewsFlash, New York Fire Department  
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23029 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2012 at 10:15 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-24 11:31:32 AM  

Stoj: Mayor Bloomberg: Some victims may have been accidentally shot by NYPD officers


...But enough about the last 50 years, what about the incident this morning?
 
2012-08-24 11:31:35 AM  

illogic: USP .45: so it's dropped since the sunset of the failed "Assault Weapons Ban." Thanks for pointing that out useful idiot.

You mean this one that is still in effect and not a failure by any measure?

"New York maintains a state level prohibition against the features listed in the now defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[2][3][4] Magazines made after 1994 with a capacity in excess of 10 rounds are banned, as are rifles with two or more of the restricted features (pistol grip, bayonet lug, collapsible or folding stock, flash suppressor, and threaded barrel).[5][6][7]"

cite

Try again asshat.


Magazines made before 1994 aren't banned dumbello. Additionally, it would take a person a matter of hours to get new magazines into NY.

The laws are uselss dumbello.
 
2012-08-24 11:31:50 AM  

JohnnyC: From what I understand... most guns are banned in Britain (.22 being the exception that I'm aware of). In Brazil, fully automatic guns and automatic guns are banned and the rest are regulated (licensed), not banned. Also, I am not bipolar.


So they have gun control? So, Exactly like I said? Glad that's cleared up.

And a gun control in the US would look alot more like Brazil than it would it England, with over half of the firearms unregister and illegal readily available to criminals and gangs and only legal citizens that can't afford security details would be banned from protecting themself in public.

Anybody who thinks we can transform US society into the UK society is deluding themselves.
 
2012-08-24 11:31:51 AM  
How many times does Bloomberg have to tell these asshole media jackoffs that they don't have a ton of information right now? A number of these reporters were asking him the same question over and over again, just changing around the word order.
 
2012-08-24 11:31:53 AM  

ChuDogg: So it follows the national average of decline?


Did you read the quote. Let me help...

"While crime rates have stopped decreasing for a decade in the rest of the United States, in New York the murder rate for 2009 is at an all time low of 466, more than a 10% decline from the previous year, and the lowest count during the period that crime statistics have been recorded"
 
2012-08-24 11:32:09 AM  
Reporter question: Who's the construction worker, isn't he the hero here?
Bloomberg: Everyone can be called a hero, he did what he was supposed to do, inform the cops and let them handle it.
 
2012-08-24 11:32:43 AM  

Dimensio: I was unaware that the "assault weapons bans" enacted in California, Massachusetts, Cook County and the city of New York had been "off the books for years" and that politicians no longer proposed enacting such legislation at a federal level.


apotential.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-24 11:32:54 AM  
haha geez... after listening to the interview with the mayor, it sounds like I may have been correct earlier... Gunman shoots/kills 1, cops shoot 9 others.
 
2012-08-24 11:33:06 AM  

ekdikeo4: Hobodeluxe: LesserEvil: Not to be petty, but that magazine holds 30 bullets, not 100

the one Holmes had held 100 rounds. he also had teargas grenades. all legal.

Anything over 30 rounds is only available to police/military, and by all accounts, everything he had was perfectly legal, therefore .. i call more bs. 


Also, btw, let's see if anyone can pull the trigger on a semi-automatic 100 times in 60 seconds. Also, would anyone doing so in anywhere outside of cities that have such draconian laws on private citizens carrying, actually survive long enough to pull the trigger that many times?

So far, indications are pretty unlikely. Even in the best possible situations (from the killer perspective) for people to kill huge quantities of people (such as the Colorado shooting), he went from his AR to his other weapons, after his AR became useless (jammed up before he had finished firing his 30 rounds), when it's more widely suspected that if he really wanted to fark people up, he'd have just used his shotgun.


I wonder were one could buy magazines with such a large capacity
 
2012-08-24 11:33:24 AM  
miss we dont know, miss we dont know, miss miss miss miss we dont know
 
2012-08-24 11:33:29 AM  
Rational discussion in these threads is impossible. It's always the same four talking points recycled ad nauseum. Might as well just toss out unrelated jokes:

A Mexican-American, a black guy, a white Catholic guy and an atheist woman walk into a bar together. They say to each other "Christ, Mitt Romney's an asshole."
 
2012-08-24 11:33:46 AM  

redmid17: He dropped it publicly once he realized it was a political loser


I wonder why things become political non-starters... hmmm.... could it have something to do with the level of support?

I can't help it that some politicians are idiots on some issues, that doesn't change the fact that the federal AWB was of questionable value and is now dead and gone and not coming back anytime soon.

Keep telling yourself someone's out to get your guns, though.
 
2012-08-24 11:33:48 AM  

dwrash: Nana's Vibrator: dwrash: FYI I do not own a single gun, I only teach archery from time to time with recurve style bows (I view compounds as cheating). I don't have a potato cannon, and I only remember how to create thermite because my crack pot science teacher in high school showed us how.

This brings up a good point. A compound bow is cheating, and guns in general are worse, even in hunting. I say all weapons are cheating. If you want to kill someone or something, you have to put on a wrestling mask and challenge your intended victims as if being interviewed by Mean Gene Okerlund. And instead of killing them, if you win your challenge, you get to take their shoes and put them in a trophy case. Fair is fair.

I'd have a huge trophy case full of shoes :)

//state champ runner up wrestler in the 170 bound weight class in high school, and I didn't do too bad in college either.

//Reminds me of festivus!


I'd have an empty trophy case, but I'd just tell the ladies that I fight at the beach a lot.
 
2012-08-24 11:33:51 AM  

odinsposse: Given that, I'm content in continuing to make fun of you for pretending that "I'm right because I don't want to acknowledge a debate might be debateable" is a legitimate criticism.


Reading the rest of the post may have helped your comprehension. The right of free access to guns means that some people will misuse the guns. When people start shooting into crowds, bodycounts get higher than they would have been if the guy had been swinging an axe. Full stop.

If you want to talk about the effectiveness of a specific gun control policy, that's a different matter.
 
2012-08-24 11:34:12 AM  

Yanks_RSJ: brantgoose: Lexington Line subway service curtailed due to mass shooting at Empire State

Well it's a good try, but the Lexington Line wouldn't be affected as much as the Broadway or Sixth Avenue lines.


Like I said before, I was on the E on 53rd and even that stopped. That's farther away from the ESB than the 6 is. I'm thinking they went into over-cautious mode.
 
2012-08-24 11:34:12 AM  

Alonjar: Gunman shoots/kills 1, cops shoot 9 others.


"only the police should have guns" ~leftists
 
2012-08-24 11:34:16 AM  

Dimensio: Insulting USP .45 will not cause the demonstrably false claims of the image that you posted to become true.


There's 30 rounds in the magazine instead of 100.
Yes, clearly that's obviously the most important thing in the image which we should all focus our attention on, and is not at all a red herring.
 
2012-08-24 11:34:48 AM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-08-24 11:34:53 AM  

Coco LaFemme: How many times does Bloomberg have to tell these asshole media jackoffs that they don't have a ton of information right now? A number of these reporters were asking him the same question over and over again, just changing around the word order.


Yup and he was like "You guys don't get it do you? We dont have the info yet!"
 
2012-08-24 11:35:11 AM  

Dimensio: HAMMERTOE: Magazine holds 100 bullets??? O RLY???

Removing the spring and other internal components could hypothetically allow for insertion of one-hundred uncased bullets.


You are missing the point. Yes, that's probably a 30 round mag (which, I just learned to my horror, you can buy on amazon along with a book that tells you how to make your own undocumented Ar-15) but the punchline is still at the bottom. We outlawed these things, the NRA decided that we needed to put these back into the civilian arsenal and people were killed with them. Why do non-soldiers need these kinds of weapons?
 
2012-08-24 11:35:24 AM  

JohnnyC: AliceBToklasLives: What does that mean "guns aren't banned"? Is it either total ban or everything goes? Is your bipolar view of the world why I can never understand?

/real world: guns are regulated in Brazil, as they are in every other country in the world (including the UK, where guns are by no means "banned")

From what I understand... most guns are banned in Britain (.22 being the exception that I'm aware of). In Brazil, fully automatic guns and automatic guns are banned and the rest are regulated (licensed), not banned. Also, I am not bipolar.


That's better - Brazil regulates guns, as does the UK.

The point: the line has to be drawn somewhere and different kinds of lines are drawn in different places.

In the US the line is drawn based on the kind of weapon - which you agree with (unless you want everyone to have unrestricted access to suitcase nukes and you know you don't) and fully automatic weapons are more or less banned.

In the UK, the line is drawn based both on the kind of weapon (again, fully automatic is out) and the person who wants to own the weapon (in line with the NRA's 'guns don't kill people' line) - essentially, you have to provide a good reason for owning a weapon, and generalized self-defense (worried about some random attacker) will not cut it -- very different from the US where no reason is required, just an age limit.

/the point: in both cases guns are regulated (as they are in Brazil). Talk of banning is just a way of blocking reasonable discussion over exactly how they should be regulated
//I did not diagnose you as bipolar - rather I said you view of the world was bipolar (banned or anything goes) - sorry for the lack of clarity there
 
2012-08-24 11:35:43 AM  

FreakinB: Yanks_RSJ: brantgoose: Lexington Line subway service curtailed due to mass shooting at Empire State

Well it's a good try, but the Lexington Line wouldn't be affected as much as the Broadway or Sixth Avenue lines.

Like I said before, I was on the E on 53rd and even that stopped. That's farther away from the ESB than the 6 is. I'm thinking they went into over-cautious mode.


Are we sure that was shooting-related and not just the usual holdups on the E?
 
2012-08-24 11:35:50 AM  

illogic: ChuDogg: So it follows the national average of decline?

Did you read the quote. Let me help...

"While crime rates have stopped decreasing for a decade in the rest of the United States, in New York the murder rate for 2009 is at an all time low of 466, more than a 10% decline from the previous year, and the lowest count during the period that crime statistics have been recorded"


Have there been any new guns law introduced in NYC in the last 7 or so years? The gun crime you're using as evidence started dropping before the NYC AWB.
 
2012-08-24 11:36:15 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Dimensio: I was unaware that the "assault weapons bans" enacted in California, Massachusetts, Cook County and the city of New York had been "off the books for years" and that politicians no longer proposed enacting such legislation at a federal level.

Sorry, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to other states' laws, that's their problem and its up to their voters. That doesn't change the fact that the feds should be in the business of enforcing reasonable controls that prevent demonstrably dangerous people from obtaining destructive weapons.


Unfortunately, the most prominent advocates for such restriction believe a renewed "assault weapons ban" to be reasonable. Due to their prominence, more reasoned proposals by less prominent individuals are dismissed as an irrational reaction by civilian firearm rights advocacy organizations due to the aforementioned prominence and prevalence of entirely unreasonable proposals.


A good start would be to recognize that our mental health services in this country are complete shiat and need to be improved dramatically so that we can actually identify unstable people before they start shooting the rest of us.

I concur.
 
2012-08-24 11:36:27 AM  

ChuDogg: Anybody who thinks we can transform US society into the UK society is deluding themselves.


Nice strawman you've got there.
 
2012-08-24 11:36:41 AM  
THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

GUNS ARE BANNED IN NEW YORK. HOW CAN SOMEONE BREAK THE LAW?! IT IS MADE OF MAGICKS
 
2012-08-24 11:36:59 AM  

USP .45: The AWB wouldn't have prevented anything you're referencing you farking dumbass.


Holmes bought the AR-15 legally.
banning assault weapons would have made it impossible to buy such a weapon illegally...

Do I need to draw you another picture? like a real simple one with crayons?
 
2012-08-24 11:37:22 AM  
Website leads me to believe that there has been a glitch in the matrix.... http://hazanimportcorp.com/
 
2012-08-24 11:37:38 AM  

Dimensio: seadoo2006: - Federally register and TITLE all firearms currently in possession.

I am not unopposed to firearm registration on principle, however firearm registration systems have demonstrably been utilized to effect efficient confiscation of firearms at later times (as has occurred in New York, Cook County and California). I therefore oppose any registration system unless some measure is enacted to guarantee that the registry can never be utilized to enact confiscation of firearms (except from individuals legally disqualified from possessing firearms due to criteria established prior to implementation of the registration system). 

I am also curious as to what demonstrable benefit will result from firearm registration.


Gun ownership tracking ... same reason we title cars, boats, homes, etc etc. If also imposes penalties on cash sales, illegal arms sales, etc etc etc ... If you are in possession of an improperly registered gun, it's prison time!

It also can track destruction of guns, creation of guns, inter-state transfers of guns. Simply put, the data collected by tracking ALL arms sales and making cash transactions illegal will stem the criminals ability to own a gun. Think about it. If a gun company is responsible for that gun, if a gun seller is responsible for that gun, and if a gun owner is responsible for that gun, the likelihood anyone will give a gun to an unsavory person is going to be a lot less.

Again, if you knew you were legally responsible for your firearms - even if they were stolen - how much more would you protect those guns. If a gun store was legally responsible for the guns he sold, how much more would he look in to who was buying them? How much more would be be interested in protecting his inventory?

Make gun ownership a risky proposition and start destroying guns wholesale. Anything unregistered within a year or with serial numbers filed off make a 5-year mandatory prison sentence for. Make it so that if you own a gun, you better THINK long and hard about the repercussions of that same ownership.
 
2012-08-24 11:37:46 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Marine1: HotWingConspiracy: Marine1: HotWingConspiracy: Marine1: Gunny Highway: Quick everyone start acting like an authority on gun, the demographics of Manhattan, and the laws of the city and state of New York! Hurry!

Well, does anyone know what this guy was armed with?

NYC has handgun permits, no? I mean, they're made to be incredibly hard to get, but that didn't do much here. Neither did the state's ban on "assault weapons".

/Good lord I hate that term...

Are you people infants? I don't get it. Do you decry theft laws because they haven't magically stopped theft?

No, because they're meant to punish theft. It's a reactionary system. You commit theft, get caught, go to trial, and if the government does its part, you get punished in a manner prescribed by law.

Restrictions on firearms are, in theory, supposed to stop these sorts of things from happening. The problem is, they don't.

And loose gun regulations do? Draw me that map, I'm not seeing it.

It's kind of an impossible claim, anyway, as there is no telling how many people were deterred by not being able to get their hands on a weapon when they were feeling shooty.

"Loose" gun regulations provide regular, law-abiding citizens a line of defense in the 99% of other violent crimes that happen in the US. Even though the news media loves to sensationalize these incidents, they're statistical anomalies in the realm of violent crime. Rape, assault, robbery, burglary, violent kidnapping, and attempted murder are all much more common crimes where potential victims could justify protecting themselves with a firearm.

I honestly don't have much of a problem with that, but I want to see the threshold for ownership be much higher. Not just any shmoe should be allowed that kind of power without some kind of training. I'd also like to see it pushed by people that actually are responsible with gun ownership. Gun owners seem stuck in this siege mindset where they need to reject everything, even reasonable proposals.

...


Not every schmoe can go and buy one. Now, the enforcement mechanism to make sure that the insane, felons, etc. can't go out and buy one isn't effective, but that's not something you can solve with more laws on the original item you're trying to control.

Overall crime stats have been on the decline for decades now. Firearms laws have varied across the country, but the US is a less violent place than it used to be. I don't think you could even attribute NYC's drop in crime to firearms laws. A better explanation would be the decline of organized crime in the area, combined with better economic conditions in the city. Even Times Square is cleaner than it was.
 
2012-08-24 11:38:30 AM  

CAADbury: Sure, I'll start: New York City has an outright ban on guns. Did that prevent this from happening? Are those gun control policies reasonable?


It does not have an outright ban.

I know 2 people who have legal permitted firearms in their homes. While the registration process was long and difficult, that does not equal "outright ban"
 
2012-08-24 11:38:43 AM  

Alonjar: haha geez... after listening to the interview with the mayor, it sounds like I may have been correct earlier... Gunman shoots/kills 1, cops shoot 9 others.


That's what it sounded like to me. He killed the first person and then when the cops confronted him they mag dumped before he got a shot off.
 
2012-08-24 11:38:55 AM  

cassanovascotian: Dimensio: Insulting USP .45 will not cause the demonstrably false claims of the image that you posted to become true.

There's 30 rounds in the magazine instead of 100.
Yes, clearly that's obviously the most important thing in the image which we should all focus our attention on, and is not at all a red herring.


The AWB didn't confiscate magazines made before 1994. I remember seeing giant crates filled with preban magazines. The AWB wouldn't have done anything but added slightly to the price tag. Your argument hinges upon the AWB and fails as horribly as your parents' confidence building skills for their waif of a child.
 
2012-08-24 11:38:59 AM  

Marine1: A better explanation would be the decline of organized crime in the area, combined with better economic conditions in the city.


Plus, abortion. You abort the lower socio-economic class, and there are fewer criminals.
 
2012-08-24 11:39:32 AM  

USP .45: Magazines made before 1994 aren't banned dumbello. Additionally, it would take a person a matter of hours to get new magazines into NY.

The laws are uselss dumbello.



So your argument is, if a law can be broken that law shouldn't exist? Really?
 
2012-08-24 11:39:32 AM  
If this were Norway, he'd be out already.

/ This is a terrible crime

//Seadoo2006- you are stupid.
 
2012-08-24 11:39:37 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: redmid17: He dropped it publicly once he realized it was a political loser

I wonder why things become political non-starters... hmmm.... could it have something to do with the level of support?

I can't help it that some politicians are idiots on some issues, that doesn't change the fact that the federal AWB was of questionable value and is now dead and gone and not coming back anytime soon.

Keep telling yourself someone's out to get your guns, though.


I don't believe I said anything of the sort. None of my guns would fall under that ban anyway. The Federal AWB was completely moronic. The gun manufacturers just had to make cosmetic changes to the guns. The functionality of the weapons was kept entirely intact. Rifles are so rarely used in crime that it's not really even worth the effort to try and pass legislation against them. Handguns are used in 80%-90% of gun crime, so any earnest effort to regulate guns should start with those. Good luck with that.
 
2012-08-24 11:39:48 AM  

ekdikeo4: Anything over 30 rounds is only available to police/military


I own a one-hundred round Beta C magazine for my AR-15. I also own a fifty-round .22lr magazine for use with the same firearm.

I am employed neither with a law enforcement agency nor a military branch.
 
2012-08-24 11:39:57 AM  

Yanks_RSJ: FreakinB: Yanks_RSJ: brantgoose: Lexington Line subway service curtailed due to mass shooting at Empire State

Well it's a good try, but the Lexington Line wouldn't be affected as much as the Broadway or Sixth Avenue lines.

Like I said before, I was on the E on 53rd and even that stopped. That's farther away from the ESB than the 6 is. I'm thinking they went into over-cautious mode.

Are we sure that was shooting-related and not just the usual holdups on the E?


This was way beyond normal.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:31 AM  

bim1154: If it hasn't been said yet... Chicago has these number of deaths on the south side almost on a daily basis... makes local news... barely... **yawn**


Two deaths per day in Chicago may be an improvement over the current situation.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:38 AM  

USP .45: I will, right after you explain to the family of a drunk driving victim that alcohol is legal, and that there is a legal limit of BAH when driving.


The funny thing is that alcohol has the potential -just every once in a while- for being used for things other than killing people -like celebrating, for example-. Now explain to me why we need to have AR-15s in society. Explain to me how this thing is useful for doing things other than killing people. I'm all ears.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:46 AM  

USP .45: Alonjar: Gunman shoots/kills 1, cops shoot 9 others.

"only the police should have guns" ~leftists


Just put the keyboard down and walk away. You don't need to misrepresent your fellow Americans. It makes you look worse than anyone you're misrepresent.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:47 AM  

xsarien: OK. Let's talk about the barriers to decent mental health coverage in the US.


Indeed.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:51 AM  

cassanovascotian: USP .45: The AWB wouldn't have prevented anything you're referencing you farking dumbass.

Holmes bought the AR-15 legally.
banning assault weapons would have made it impossible to buy such a weapon illegally...

Do I need to draw you another picture? like a real simple one with crayons?


It didn't retroactively confiscate firearms or magazines made before 1994 you came-into-this-thread-with-insufficient-knowlege-Maroon-5-album-owning fruit.
 
2012-08-24 11:40:56 AM  

Dimensio: ekdikeo4: Anything over 30 rounds is only available to police/military

I own a one-hundred round Beta C magazine for my AR-15. I also own a fifty-round .22lr magazine for use with the same firearm.

I am employed neither with a law enforcement agency nor a military branch.


Nor very secretive.
 
2012-08-24 11:41:45 AM  

illogic: Did you read the quote. Let me help...


No I didn't, I don't bother with somebody that argues with logical fallacies.

Ever think there might be some other explanation? Oh I don't know? The transformation of NYC from a crack haven to Disney World? Pricing out all lower income families so that even the burroughs are largely unaffordable? The rampant increase in the prison population simply moving the crime from the ghetto to the prison?

And there's probably about 10 other factors that people who have studied the issue have brought up.

But gun crime as a whole? Yes, there's been a national decline that has occurred in virtually every city and state nationwide, even as the majority of the states are LOOSENING gun restrictions and concealed carry is at an all time high.

There is simply no correlation at all in the United States with the legal availability of guns and the prevalence of gun crime. None.
 
2012-08-24 11:42:29 AM  

Silly Jesus: He's going to be white, isn't he?


White people be crazy.
 
2012-08-24 11:42:55 AM  

Brawndo: I worked there for 7 years until I moved upstate. Now I have a reason to be glad I moved to Binghamton.

/Take away people's soda and trans fats and this is what happens, Bloomberg


No, there's.never a reason to be glad to be in Binghamton

Did four years there. Felt like doing time at least
 
2012-08-24 11:42:55 AM  

Stoj: 5 wounded,10 injured, 20 hurt, 40 maimed, and 80 people were slightly distracted this morning...


Yes, but how many were shot? And how many were gunned?
 
2012-08-24 11:43:57 AM  

plewis: Why do non-soldiers need these kinds of weapons?


That's a strawman argument. The first amendment doesn't limit the kinds of speech. You're free to spout off your opinion on TV, radio, blog, twitter, facebook, billboard, etc.

The third amendment doesn't limit the kind of soldier that cannot be quartered in your house. It also doesn't distinguish between "single family home," "townhome," or apartment.

The second amendment, in kind, doesn't limit the kind of arms the people are entitled and guaranteed the right to keep and bear.
 
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