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(CNN) NewsFlash The United States: 0 Days Since Last Mass Casualty Shooting   (cnn.com) divider line 1064
    More: NewsFlash, New York Fire Department  
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23013 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2012 at 10:15 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-24 11:20:48 AM  

darch: Well, considering that all the news reports are beginning to show that this was a dispute between two co-workers that spilled out into the street, followed by one of the co-workers pulling out a gun and starting to shoot at the other guy (and in the process hitting innocent bystanders), I'm more worried about people like you who would have a gun in the first place.

I'm a cop genius. I am required to carry on and off-duty.


Someone thinks they're a genius cop... or would a comma qualify (snark)
 
2012-08-24 11:20:53 AM  

gja: Vegan Meat Popsicle: How many more shootings do we have to have in this country before people finally accept that we must have more guns?

/ this is what gun nuts actually believe

No, we NEED to focus more on WHY people are getting to this point in their lives. This is becoming endemic in our society as more people are quite literally pushed past their limit to deal with the stresses and hardships.
Am I saying "...it's OK to shoot up the joint because you are stressed out working 3 jobs to make ends meet and you get fired so get all kill-y"?

NO. Just that this will likely happen more and more until there is more stability in the economy (worldwide) and we learn to be better in dealing with each other. There is such a disgusting lack of civility and kindness that permeates our society as a whole it is really saddening.

VMP, stop being so flippant. You obviously have an agenda where guns are concerned. At least have the spine to say that clearly and not try to thinly veil it so as to place everyone that does not share your "ZOMG guns are teh ev-ill" view in the "GUN NUT" bucket.

Many who have no problem with gun ownership are NOT "gun nuts"


OK. Let's talk about the barriers to decent mental health coverage in the US.
 
2012-08-24 11:20:58 AM  

cassanovascotian: Dimensio: Is your inaccurate image intended to relate to the current discussion in any way?

I'd say it's rather farking self-explanatory.


Are you saying that you were intentionally posting irrelevant and false information?
 
2012-08-24 11:21:08 AM  

thetubameister: darch: Until recently, I almost never carried off duty as my Glock 26 is bulky and uncomfortable but I've changed my mind on that. I carry ALWAYS now. This shiat can happen anytime, anywhere.

And I'm not NRA gun-nut. Quite the opposite, actually.

Just a chicken. With a gun. I sure feel safe now.


He's a cop you dolt.
 
2012-08-24 11:21:14 AM  

Marine1: HotWingConspiracy: Marine1: HotWingConspiracy: Marine1: Gunny Highway: Quick everyone start acting like an authority on gun, the demographics of Manhattan, and the laws of the city and state of New York! Hurry!

Well, does anyone know what this guy was armed with?

NYC has handgun permits, no? I mean, they're made to be incredibly hard to get, but that didn't do much here. Neither did the state's ban on "assault weapons".

/Good lord I hate that term...

Are you people infants? I don't get it. Do you decry theft laws because they haven't magically stopped theft?

No, because they're meant to punish theft. It's a reactionary system. You commit theft, get caught, go to trial, and if the government does its part, you get punished in a manner prescribed by law.

Restrictions on firearms are, in theory, supposed to stop these sorts of things from happening. The problem is, they don't.

And loose gun regulations do? Draw me that map, I'm not seeing it.

It's kind of an impossible claim, anyway, as there is no telling how many people were deterred by not being able to get their hands on a weapon when they were feeling shooty.

"Loose" gun regulations provide regular, law-abiding citizens a line of defense in the 99% of other violent crimes that happen in the US. Even though the news media loves to sensationalize these incidents, they're statistical anomalies in the realm of violent crime. Rape, assault, robbery, burglary, violent kidnapping, and attempted murder are all much more common crimes where potential victims could justify protecting themselves with a firearm.


I honestly don't have much of a problem with that, but I want to see the threshold for ownership be much higher. Not just any shmoe should be allowed that kind of power without some kind of training. I'd also like to see it pushed by people that actually are responsible with gun ownership. Gun owners seem stuck in this siege mindset where they need to reject everything, even reasonable proposals.

"Tight" gun regulations get ignored by criminals and seem to be easily circumvented by the insane, at least with the current structure of enforcement. At the same time, they take the ability of the innocent to defend themselves against criminals. NYC has arguably the toughest gun laws in the country, and 10 people were still shot.

That doesn't show that they aren't working. Overall crime stats show that they are working. Nothing has a 100% success rate like that when you're talking about crime and crime prevention.
 
2012-08-24 11:21:34 AM  
 
2012-08-24 11:21:53 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: What does that mean "guns aren't banned"? Is it either total ban or everything goes? Is your bipolar view of the world why I can never understand?

/real world: guns are regulated in Brazil, as they are in every other country in the world (including the UK, where guns are by no means "banned")


From what I understand... most guns are banned in Britain (.22 being the exception that I'm aware of). In Brazil, fully automatic guns and automatic guns are banned and the rest are regulated (licensed), not banned. Also, I am not bipolar.
 
2012-08-24 11:21:54 AM  

WTF Indeed: Reactions to this shooting:

The World: "There they go again..."

West Coast: "See, that's why we got rid of guns."

The South: "That's for Stonewall Jackson!"

New Yorkers: "That f*cker better not make the GWB Lincoln extra busy, I'm planning on hitting the shore AC this weekend."


Heh. FTFM. Bachelor party. Most of my friends are going down before I can so I have to take a bus from Port Authority.
 
2012-08-24 11:22:09 AM  
Damn, I love Christine Quinn's serious face.
 
2012-08-24 11:22:20 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: thetubameister: darch: Until recently, I almost never carried off duty as my Glock 26 is bulky and uncomfortable but I've changed my mind on that. I carry ALWAYS now. This shiat can happen anytime, anywhere.

And I'm not NRA gun-nut. Quite the opposite, actually.

Just a chicken. With a gun. I sure feel safe now.

He's a cop you dolt.


media.skateboard.com.au
 
2012-08-24 11:22:40 AM  
oh the police shot innocent civilians great!!!
 
2012-08-24 11:22:41 AM  

ChuDogg: Wait a minute... which one of you guys is selling penis extenders?? Please tell me I NEED ONE! MY GIRL FRIEND WILL LOVE ME FOR IT!


media.punchingkitty.com

/ Okay, you can open your eyes now....
 
2012-08-24 11:22:41 AM  

illogic: LawrencePerson: How are some of the toughest gun control laws in the country working out for you NYC?

Glad you asked. The answer is Farking grea



So it follows the national average of decline?
 
2012-08-24 11:22:45 AM  
Bloomberg: A man. Fired a year ago (?). Started shooting. Police may have shot bystanders.
 
2012-08-24 11:23:02 AM  

illogic: LawrencePerson: How are some of the toughest gun control laws in the country working out for you NYC?

Glad you asked. The answer is Farking great!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x545]

Starting in 2005, New York City achieved the lowest crime rate among the ten largest cities in the United States.[12] Since 1991, the city has seen a continuous fifteen-year trend of decreasing crime. Neighborhoods that were once considered dangerous are now much safer. Violent crime in the city has dropped by three quarters in the twelve years ending in 2005 with the murder rate at its lowest then level since 1963 with 539 murders that year, for a murder rate of 6.58 per 100,000 people, compared to 2,245 murders in 1990. In 2009, the low would be displaced. Among the 182 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000, New York City ranked 136th in overall crime...

...While crime rates have stopped decreasing for a decade in the rest of the United States, in New York the murder rate for 2009 is at an all time low of 466, more than a 10% decline from the previous year, and the lowest count during the period that crime statistics have been recorded.[

Source is Wikipedia with plenty of citations.


And if you actually read the articles AND the linked laws, you'll realize that the laws were put into place decades ago before the gun homicide rate starting rising dramatically and that fun laws really haven't had any large demonstrable effect on the gun crime in NYC. If Bloomberg is biatching and moaning about the private sale exception enough to send the NYPD to try to bait some private sellers in AZ to illegally sell guns, then I think that tells you how effective he thinks municipal gun laws are.
 
2012-08-24 11:23:11 AM  
The real problem is New Yorkers. In Texas, we would have shot back. In Pennsylvania, even, they "roll" and take on terrorists in a plane. But in New York, nooooooooo, they don't want to get involved. Just look the other way when the guy next to you gets shot. Anyone see MIB2? That's about as accurate a representation of New Yorkers as I have ever seen. Just don't get involved, no big deal, 'we've seen it all before.' Until 9/11 happens, and all of a sudden New York rivals Jews in trying to guilt us into feeling sorry for them.
 
2012-08-24 11:23:17 AM  

Carth: best wishes go out to all the victims and their families.

NYC needs tougher gun laws.


Gun laws don't stop people from shooting people. You cant actually believe that someone who wants to commit a crime will stop because there is a law against it. HAHAHAHA!
 
2012-08-24 11:23:35 AM  

Dimensio: Vegan Meat Popsicle: USP .45: the mainstream media doesns't have a liberal narrative do rite?

WTF is that even supposed to mean? Because high crime areas embroiled in a gang war have higher crime the media is liberal?

Noticeably F.A.T.: /You're really going to base your opinions of all gun owners on the remarks of Fark trolls? Alrighty then.

Yea, yea, blah blah. For twenty years now you nuts have all been telling me you're not part of the problem it's just a few other bad eggs.

Bullshiat. You don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. You're all unreasonable lunatics who care more about easy access to your penis extenders than anything else. When the NRA and its completely unreasonable campaign against fair and reasonable gun laws stops receiving massive widespread support from the gun community I'll start to consider giving you nuts the benefit of the doubt again.

"Penis extenders" are entirely irrelevant to the current subject of discussion. For what reason have you attempted to introduce such an irrelevant concept? Additionally, please define "reasonable gun laws"; frequently, proposed firearm restrictions claimed to be "reasonable" are actually demonstrably unreasonable, such as prohibiting civilian ownership of rarely criminally misused classes of rifles based upon cosmetic features.


Easy:

- Federally register and TITLE all firearms currently in possession.
- You have 12 months to properly apply for a title and register every gun in your possession. Any non-registered gun seized after that 12 months results in a mandatory 5-year prison sentence and the destruction of said gun.
- Gun owners are legally liable for gun registered under their name used in a crime. If someone stole it, too bad, you deal with the consequences as you didn't properly secure your firearm. Make it a crime to lose a gun in any circumstance.
- Transfer of ownership of any firearm must be done through a federal agency where notarized documents of title and transfer of ownership would be assigned. Cash deals are no longer legal. All guns must be sold through the same waiting period and delay of ownership that new gun sales at stores go through.
- Companies that manufacture guns are legally liable for those guns until they transfer ownership to a store or to a person. Store owners are legally liable for all guns until they are legally transferred to a new owner.

Start penalizing EVERYONE involved with a certain gun used in crime. This would solve 99% of all gun crimes. Restriction of access and making guns a liability to own.

/I own three guns.
//Perfectly okay with all of this.
///My guns are stored separate from my ammo, unloaded, in a secure gun safe in an area of my home that is not easily accessible.
 
2012-08-24 11:23:36 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Polly Ester: Because an appeal to cartoon logic will raise the sophistication of this dialog.

I don't think you fully appreciate these threads. They are an opportunity to completely throw all sophistication out the window and just go full retard. It's inevitable anyway, so you might as well just have fun and take advantage from the start.


I am not a retard. I very rarely soil myself, I can pull my t-shirt over my head by myself, and I can go out in public without getting a boner.

I think when people put little or no value on human life, the government has to step in. It is interesting that many conservatives oppose abortion and gun control and many liberals support abortion and gun control. Both issues are instances where governmental controls are required due to, in some voters minds, the public's cheap view on human life. Oh well...
 
2012-08-24 11:24:10 AM  
Local and federal authorities who converged on the building around 9 a.m. closed several streets around 5th Avenue and 34th Street, snarling traffic in the heart of ManhattanLocal and federal authorities who converged on the building around 9 a.m. closed several streets around 5th Avenue and 34th Street, snarling traffic in the heart of Manhattan

It's a miracle more people weren't killed. Hope Santa is ok.
 
2012-08-24 11:24:21 AM  
Commissioner Kelly: First guy shot a former co-worker. Shooter was Jeffery Johnson, age 53. .45 caliber handgun.
 
2012-08-24 11:24:30 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Dimensio: please define "reasonable gun laws";

Let's start by closing the loophole that lets terrorists, criminals and mentally unstable individuals to simply walk into a gun show with a stack of cash and leave with a loaded armory.

Which "loophole" enables such action? How is this "loophole" derived from existing law?

Dimensio: such as prohibiting civilian ownership of rarely criminally misused classes of rifles based upon cosmetic features.

Haha! Look at you bringing up a law that's been off the books for years and almost nobody thinks is useful like you're making a point!


I was unaware that the "assault weapons bans" enacted in California, Massachusetts, Cook County and the city of New York had been "off the books for years" and that politicians no longer proposed enacting such legislation at a federal level.
 
gja
2012-08-24 11:24:37 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: gja: At least have the spine to say that clearly

Guns should be harder to get and require a much more rigorous screening process but gut nuts refuse to even consider such a thing because they're insane.

I own three guns. I have no qualms at all about making it harder for me to buy a fourth. As a law-abiding citizen with no criminal history, I'm okay with having to wait a few weeks to get my latest "POINT AND DESTROY" penis stand-in, thanks.

gja: ZOMG guns are teh ev-ill

Never said that, dumbass. Your strawman. It is flimsy.


I will, shockingly, agree with you. Background searches need to be WAY more comprehensive and rigorous.
No handguns in my cabinet, since they are really crap for 500 yard competition.

I wasn't trying to make a strawman as much as drive home a point VMP. The knee-jerk "deer-in-headlights" reaction to guns needs to stop.

Enacting laws to control gun USE fails. It hasn't worked, isn't working, and won't work.

And sadly, sometimes,someone who was previously a "perfectly sane and nice person" who also has a gun, will snap.
And then this shiat will happen.

Oh, and BTW, sorry you feel you need a...what was the term?.....oh yes, "penis stand-in".
 
2012-08-24 11:24:51 AM  

Mija: Carth: best wishes go out to all the victims and their families.

NYC needs tougher gun laws.

Guns laws don't stop people from shooting people. You cant actually believe that someone who wants to commit a crime will stop because there is a law against it other people might have guns. HAHAHAHA!

 
2012-08-24 11:25:47 AM  

imontheinternet: odinsposse: imontheinternet: I like the cartoon for its accuracy. The gun debate is settled, but living in a gun culture means that when a guy goes crazy and starts attacking people, he kills 10 with a gun instead of 2 or 3 with an axe.

It's not about preventing crazy people from doing crazy things; it's about simple math. We have X number of crazy people who will go on killing sprees, and the access each crazy person has to weapons makes each person capable of killing Y people in each killing spree. X times Y equals the number of people who die in massacres committed by crazy people.

You're assuming that gun laws will actually change that. There is no reason to do so. You can't just hand wave the other side of the debate away because it makes you feel good.

Given the first assumption, I can. Nobody is arguing that gun control will actually happen.


Given that, I'm content in continuing to make fun of you for pretending that "I'm right because I don't want to acknowledge a debate might be debateable" is a legitimate criticism.
 
2012-08-24 11:25:51 AM  
Commissioner Kelly: The guy shot a former coworker, put his gun in a bag and walked away. A construction worker followed him. He alerted two cops. Cops confronted him, he pulled out the gun, started shooting back and forth.

He worked as Hazan Imports as a designer of women's accessories. Laid off a year ago. Shot a 41-year-old former coworker.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:00 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Dimensio: such as prohibiting civilian ownership of rarely criminally misused classes of rifles based upon cosmetic features.

Haha! Look at you bringing up a law that's been off the books for years and almost nobody thinks is useful like you're making a point!


If no one thinks it's useful, then why have there been pretty consistent efforts to renew it and why did Holder/Obama come out in favor of renewing as he came into office? He dropped it publicly once he realized it was a political loser, but he brought it back up after the Colorado shooting. So did Feinstein.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:21 AM  

dwrash: FYI I do not own a single gun, I only teach archery from time to time with recurve style bows (I view compounds as cheating). I don't have a potato cannon, and I only remember how to create thermite because my crack pot science teacher in high school showed us how.


This brings up a good point. A compound bow is cheating, and guns in general are worse, even in hunting. I say all weapons are cheating. If you want to kill someone or something, you have to put on a wrestling mask and challenge your intended victims as if being interviewed by Mean Gene Okerlund. And instead of killing them, if you win your challenge, you get to take their shoes and put them in a trophy case. Fair is fair.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:28 AM  
The only two dead are the shooter and his first victim.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:40 AM  

FizixJunkee: I'm so sick of this shiat.


I'm sure the people who got shot feel your pain. Asshole.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:51 AM  

LarryDan43: 10 shot in NY! OMG! 19 shot overnight in Chicago, Meh.


I'm willing to focus equal attention on Chicago. Locate a new article in the Chicago local news, submit the link with a witty headline and Farkers jump on and comment.

Ta da! Problem solved.
 
2012-08-24 11:26:53 AM  
I can see tomorrow's headline in the New York papers:

Two dead, thousands inconvenienced
Lexington Line subway service curtailed due to mass shooting at Empire State
 
2012-08-24 11:27:16 AM  

cassanovascotian: USP .45: it's just a moron from a place where no one talks normally making a logical fallacy in the form of a picture, because he's too impotent to try and actually express the point in his own words. the AWB didn't prevent sale of existing magazines and rifles, so it would have had zero effect on anything. Also, Holmes' AR jammed anyways.

Oh wow, that's a perfectly logical explanation as to why people selling guns has absolutely nothing to do with sociopaths legally obtaining guns and using them to kill people -you ignorant callous farkwit.

You want words? how about you try to explain your unbelievably farked up justification of gun laws to the families of the people that just got killed. Seriously, let's go over to ESB building right now and talk to the familes. I'll tell them why I think the states should have stricter gun laws, and you tell them why you think there should be more permissive gun laws, and then we'll see which one of us looks like a completely soulless sack of shiat.


I will, right after you explain to the family of a drunk driving victim that alcohol is legal, and that there is a legal limit of BAH when driving.

Will you do that for me you emotionally appealing sissy?

I hope you get bukkaked by Haitians.
 
2012-08-24 11:27:17 AM  

sprawl15: JohnnyC: Nana's Vibrator: I'd say it shouldn't be called a "mass" killing.

So what would you call it?

A volume killing.


That's how we make up the difference, right?

/Oh man oh man I woke up in the wrong thread again shiat where am I why'd I drink so much oh God...
 
2012-08-24 11:27:57 AM  

Boudica's War Tampon: I Said: On 8/24 I had a view of the Empire State Building from my office.

Never Forget.

Are they selling magnetic car ribbons yet? How about miniature American flags?


No but there are a lot of tourist shops in the area.
 
2012-08-24 11:28:05 AM  
NYPD Kelly: Johnson employed for six years at Hazan Imports as designer of women's accessories. Lost his job during downsizing of company a year ago.
 
2012-08-24 11:28:05 AM  

JerseyTim: He worked as Hazan Imports as a designer of women's accessories.


Wow, a gun will turn anyone in to a tough guy.
 
2012-08-24 11:28:27 AM  
This type of shiat is going to happen. Just face it. 8 Million people live here. At least a handful of them have to be crazy.
 
2012-08-24 11:28:38 AM  

USP .45: so it's dropped since the sunset of the failed "Assault Weapons Ban." Thanks for pointing that out useful idiot.


You mean this one that is still in effect and not a failure by any measure?

"New York maintains a state level prohibition against the features listed in the now defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[2][3][4] Magazines made after 1994 with a capacity in excess of 10 rounds are banned, as are rifles with two or more of the restricted features (pistol grip, bayonet lug, collapsible or folding stock, flash suppressor, and threaded barrel).[5][6][7]"

cite

Try again asshat.
 
2012-08-24 11:28:53 AM  

Dimensio: I was unaware that the "assault weapons bans" enacted in California, Massachusetts, Cook County and the city of New York had been "off the books for years" and that politicians no longer proposed enacting such legislation at a federal level.


Sorry, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to other states' laws, that's their problem and its up to their voters. That doesn't change the fact that the feds should be in the business of enforcing reasonable controls that prevent demonstrably dangerous people from obtaining destructive weapons.

A good start would be to recognize that our mental health services in this country are complete shiat and need to be improved dramatically so that we can actually identify unstable people before they start shooting the rest of us.

gja: Oh, and BTW, sorry you feel you need a...what was the term?.....oh yes, "penis stand-in".


Three of them!
 
2012-08-24 11:29:02 AM  
Mayor Bloomberg: Some victims may have been accidentally shot by NYPD officers
 
2012-08-24 11:29:14 AM  
Goddamn, I love testy Bloomberg.
 
2012-08-24 11:30:02 AM  
Bloomberg isn't taking any shiat from the media right now. He's copping an attitude with the media.
 
2012-08-24 11:30:41 AM  

Hobodeluxe: LesserEvil: Not to be petty, but that magazine holds 30 bullets, not 100

the one Holmes had held 100 rounds. he also had teargas grenades. all legal.


Anything over 30 rounds is only available to police/military, and by all accounts, everything he had was perfectly legal, therefore .. i call more bs. 


Also, btw, let's see if anyone can pull the trigger on a semi-automatic 100 times in 60 seconds. Also, would anyone doing so in anywhere outside of cities that have such draconian laws on private citizens carrying, actually survive long enough to pull the trigger that many times?

So far, indications are pretty unlikely. Even in the best possible situations (from the killer perspective) for people to kill huge quantities of people (such as the Colorado shooting), he went from his AR to his other weapons, after his AR became useless (jammed up before he had finished firing his 30 rounds), when it's more widely suspected that if he really wanted to fark people up, he'd have just used his shotgun.
 
2012-08-24 11:30:47 AM  

brantgoose: Lexington Line subway service curtailed due to mass shooting at Empire State


Well it's a good try, but the Lexington Line wouldn't be affected as much as the Broadway or Sixth Avenue lines.
 
2012-08-24 11:30:47 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: dwrash: FYI I do not own a single gun, I only teach archery from time to time with recurve style bows (I view compounds as cheating). I don't have a potato cannon, and I only remember how to create thermite because my crack pot science teacher in high school showed us how.

This brings up a good point. A compound bow is cheating, and guns in general are worse, even in hunting. I say all weapons are cheating. If you want to kill someone or something, you have to put on a wrestling mask and challenge your intended victims as if being interviewed by Mean Gene Okerlund. And instead of killing them, if you win your challenge, you get to take their shoes and put them in a trophy case. Fair is fair.


I'd have a huge trophy case full of shoes :)

//state champ runner up wrestler in the 170 bound weight class in high school, and I didn't do too bad in college either.

//Reminds me of festivus!
 
2012-08-24 11:30:55 AM  

seadoo2006: - Federally register and TITLE all firearms currently in possession.


I am not unopposed to firearm registration on principle, however firearm registration systems have demonstrably been utilized to effect efficient confiscation of firearms at later times (as has occurred in New York, Cook County and California). I therefore oppose any registration system unless some measure is enacted to guarantee that the registry can never be utilized to enact confiscation of firearms (except from individuals legally disqualified from possessing firearms due to criteria established prior to implementation of the registration system). 

I am also curious as to what demonstrable benefit will result from firearm registration.
 
2012-08-24 11:30:55 AM  
Bloomberg is dressed like he was boarding his yacht when he found out.
 
2012-08-24 11:31:01 AM  
If it hasn't been said yet... Chicago has these number of deaths on the south side almost on a daily basis... makes local news... barely... **yawn**
 
2012-08-24 11:31:30 AM  
BLOOMBERG: Some victims shot 'accidentally' by police...

Oh man...
 
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