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(ESPN)   John Clayton picks up where John Madden left off   (espn.go.com) divider line 78
    More: Obvious, John Madden, Chad Pennington, Robert Meachem, Eddie Royal, Antonio Gates, Brandon Lloyd, The Falcons, Joe Flacco  
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2165 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Aug 2012 at 11:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-24 10:25:24 AM
every quarterback is going to be amaaaaaaaazing this year
 
2012-08-24 10:30:54 AM
13 elite quarterbacks out of 32 starters. You should probably redefine what makes someone "elite" if you're putting 40+ percent of the league in that category.
 
2012-08-24 11:13:06 AM
If you define 13 of 32 starting QBs as "elite," then "elite" doesn't mean anything anymore.

Especially if Joe Flacco is one of them.
 
2012-08-24 11:17:30 AM
My "Elites" list is 3 people long: Rogers, Brees, Brady.

Approximately the top 10% seems about right.
 
2012-08-24 11:20:16 AM

IAmRight: 13 elite quarterbacks out of 32 starters. You should probably redefine what makes someone "elite" if you're putting 40+ percent of the league in that category.


I think of it as 13 out of roughly 120 active NFL quarterbacks.
 
2012-08-24 11:20:16 AM
Every QB is "elite" now using the old standards. Eli Manning was a taco salad and a slim jim away from 5,000 passing yards last season, yet no one gave a f*ck until he was hoisting the Lombardi trophy again.

Now, try coming up with your list of "elite" RBs (at least specifically for the upcoming 2012-13 season, and guys that are unquestionable healthy going into it). After Foster, McCoy, and probably Rice...not much there.
 
2012-08-24 11:21:11 AM
Ben Roethlisberger is terrrrrrible. Not only is he not the 4th best quarterback, but his prospects are not looking up by any means. Key receivers and running backs are hurt, his injuries prevent him from moving, and the only way he can win is if the steelers defense hold opponents to 3 points.
 
2012-08-24 11:21:22 AM

thomps: every quarterback is going to be amaaaaaaaazing this year


Well, think about it this way - we're talking about the 32 of the best quarterbacks in the country. Given that there's 120-odd college starters, and thousands of high school starters, all these guys are pretty amazing.
 
2012-08-24 11:22:05 AM

grinding_journalist: My "Elites" list is 3 people long: Rogers, Brees, Brady.

Approximately the top 10% seems about right.


No love for the guy who turned Brady's legacy from "Greatest Ever" to "John Elway"(which is not a bad legacy)(Wait a second, does Justin Tuck even play qb?)
 
2012-08-24 11:22:38 AM

Angry Buddha: I think of it as 13 out of roughly 120 active NFL quarterbacks.


That's a way to consider guys elite, but it's also a silly standard. No one cares about backups for any purposes. I mean, if you're going to do that, why not just say the top 32 are all elite compared to the thousands of players who aren't in the league?

/also, I doubt he rates the QBs 1-120
 
2012-08-24 11:24:01 AM
A third of those guys are known for getting hurt.......half the damn league is throwing for 4000 yards now....he needs to check how he defines Elite....
 
2012-08-24 11:25:55 AM

AliceBToklasLives: all these guys are pretty amazing.


And not just at football. I heard Aaron Rodgers is exceptional at calligraphy, and almost gave up football to go professional in that instead.
 
2012-08-24 11:29:22 AM

Killer Cars: Every QB is "elite" now using the old standards. Eli Manning was a taco salad and a slim jim away from 5,000 passing yards last season, yet no one gave a f*ck until he was hoisting the Lombardi trophy again.

Now, try coming up with your list of "elite" RBs (at least specifically for the upcoming 2012-13 season, and guys that are unquestionable healthy going into it). After Foster, McCoy, and probably Rice...not much there.


No love for Forte?
 
2012-08-24 11:31:34 AM
I could be persuaded to say the top five can be considered elite. The rest have a lot to prove.

FFS, I'd take Cutler over Matt Ryan, P. Manning, Flacco, Romo, and Vick for this upcoming year. And I think my stance on Cutler is fairly well-known.
 
2012-08-24 11:33:57 AM

Killer Cars: Now, try coming up with your list of "elite" RBs (at least specifically for the upcoming 2012-13 season, and guys that are unquestionable healthy going into it). After Foster, McCoy, and probably Rice...not much there.


By using the "above average is elite" standards for QB, I'll add Gore and Lynch. Hell, maybe Jackson just because he plays a lot. Also, Johnson is likely to do better as far as TDs go and he did average 4 yards a carry and ran for over 1000 yards in a "terrible" season.
 
2012-08-24 11:38:08 AM

AngryPoet: A third of those guys are known for getting hurt.......half the damn league is throwing for 4000 yards now....he needs to check how he defines Elite....


On the local Seattle station yesterday, he defined Elite as "likely to go to the playoffs," FWIW.
 
2012-08-24 11:45:42 AM

Skiffy: On the local Seattle station yesterday, he defined Elite as "likely to go to the playoffs," FWIW.


Then why is Vick considered elite?

All four NFC South QBs are in the top half of the league (according to Clayton); all four NFC West QBs are in the bottom half of the league.

SOMEONE in the West is likely to go to the playoffs. =P
 
2012-08-24 11:47:38 AM
I watched most of last night's game (Titans / Cards).

Our defense looked like ass and the QB sitch is still a trainwreck.


Dim days ahead for REdbird Nation.
 
2012-08-24 11:48:53 AM

Skiffy: AngryPoet: A third of those guys are known for getting hurt.......half the damn league is throwing for 4000 yards now....he needs to check how he defines Elite....

On the local Seattle station yesterday, he defined Elite as "likely to go to the playoffs," FWIW.


Ok, that changes it a little, so it is his list of playoff teams....Thanks for pointing that out, I guess in the buildup to the season you need something to write about; it is just not what I think many are looking for exactly when you say Elite QB...
 
2012-08-24 11:49:54 AM
Mr. Stafford - you threw for over 5,000 yards last season, you are certainly an elite quarterback. How elite? About 12th best in the league.

I'm not a Lions fan, but as I was scrolling down, I kept figuring I'd see him around #5, 6, 7... had to click for the next page and still see one name above his.
 
2012-08-24 11:52:19 AM

rickythepenguin: Our defense looked like ass and the QB sitch is still a trainwreck.


Haha I loved it. Aside from Chris Berman's existence and Trent Dilfer's insisting upon calling Hasselbeck "Matthew Hasselbeck" every single time he referred to him, even when he'd do it twice in a sentence.

And it was laughable to hear Dilfer try to pretend Kolb or Skelton are competent. They're awful f*cking QBs...I was stoked about Kolb's drive to end the first half, because if he starts I can already count on a Week 1 win for the Seahawks.
 
2012-08-24 11:54:36 AM

insano: Ben Roethlisberger is terrrrrrible. Not only is he not the 4th best quarterback, but his prospects are not looking up by any means. Key receivers and running backs are hurt, his injuries prevent him from moving, and the only way he can win is if the steelers defense hold opponents to 3 points.


Well he's not the 4th best QB so you have one shiny piece of corn in this turd post.

But he doesn't have any important WRs hurt (though one is holding out, but expected back for the season), he doesn't have an injury that affects his seriously affects his mobility yet, and the Steelers won 9 games last year where the defense gave up more than 3 points. Other than that though, your analysis is spot on, ESPN probably emailing you right now about a spot on First Take.

/why are we having a semantic argument about "elite"...he defines it in the article and says these 13 guys can meet the statistical benchmarks he set up
//I like how Clayton's statistical benchmarks aren't good enough to be "elite" but feelings pulled out of your ass about who is "elite" are A-OK
///The SuperDuperExtraElite Club---5000 yards, 65% completion, 25 points per game--Rogers, Brady, Brees
 
2012-08-24 12:00:55 PM

rickythepenguin: Our defense looked like ass and the QB sitch is still a trainwreck.



to follow up......going in, the local scribes were all -- as they have been -- chirping about how good the defense looks. uh......that was Jake Locker that dropped 32 on us.

and that continued rumblings that we are considering FA / trade options. God bless it, the season statrs IN TWELVE DAYS. Jiminy christmas.

on that note, the rumors about the Colts chirping about a MAJOR TRADE, it appears the Jones Drew situation is the most likely target but......can't help but wonder if the Cards are in on that. no, i'm not saying Luck is coming here, i'm dumb but not stupid, but.....ehhh. who knows.

just mad at whiz and how ineptly he let the QB sitch unfold. jesus hell 4 months ago we were flirting with Manning. and now we supposedly may be considering making a run at T-Jack and/or McCoy.
 
2012-08-24 12:07:39 PM

IAmRight: Skiffy: On the local Seattle station yesterday, he defined Elite as "likely to go to the playoffs," FWIW.

Then why is Vick considered elite?

All four NFC South QBs are in the top half of the league (according to Clayton); all four NFC West QBs are in the bottom half of the league.

SOMEONE in the West is likely to go to the playoffs. =P


As a Seahawks fan, I would say someone in the West "has" to go to the playoffs.
 
2012-08-24 12:14:05 PM

p the boiler: Killer Cars: Every QB is "elite" now using the old standards. Eli Manning was a taco salad and a slim jim away from 5,000 passing yards last season, yet no one gave a f*ck until he was hoisting the Lombardi trophy again.

Now, try coming up with your list of "elite" RBs (at least specifically for the upcoming 2012-13 season, and guys that are unquestionable healthy going into it). After Foster, McCoy, and probably Rice...not much there.

No love for Forte?


I'm a Forte fan, but he's gotta prove that injury isn't going to haunt him this season.
 
2012-08-24 12:16:08 PM

IAmRight: Killer Cars: Now, try coming up with your list of "elite" RBs (at least specifically for the upcoming 2012-13 season, and guys that are unquestionable healthy going into it). After Foster, McCoy, and probably Rice...not much there.

By using the "above average is elite" standards for QB, I'll add Gore and Lynch. Hell, maybe Jackson just because he plays a lot. Also, Johnson is likely to do better as far as TDs go and he did average 4 yards a carry and ran for over 1000 yards in a "terrible" season.


I've been saying this for about three years now, but I think this is the year Steven Jackson finally dies on the field. How someone can run that many times with that sort of style for as long as he has kind of boggles my mind. Yes, it helps that he's the size of a linebacker, but still.
 
2012-08-24 12:17:05 PM

Skiffy: As a Seahawks fan, I would say someone in the West "has" to go to the playoffs.



just as last year, someone from the NFC East "had" to go to the playoffs.
 
2012-08-24 12:20:42 PM

rickythepenguin: on that note, the rumors about the Colts chirping about a MAJOR TRADE, it appears the Jones Drew situation is the most likely target but......can't help but wonder if the Cards are in on that. no, i'm not saying Luck is coming here, i'm dumb but not stupid, but.....ehhh. who knows.


I bet it's a 1st for Mike Wallace.
 
2012-08-24 12:26:32 PM

rickythepenguin: to follow up......going in, the local scribes were all -- as they have been -- chirping about how good the defense looks. uh......that was Jake Locker that dropped 32 on us.


In fairness, the defense did force a 3 and out, then the offense gave them the ball in the red zone. And Kolb threw a pick-six. And some of the points were against the backups.

So really I'd probably only hang 10 points on the defense. And the FG drive started at the ARI 38, which is in range for Bironas...so I'd really just blame the defense for one drive. The defense was pretty solid. The offense just f*cked the team in more ways than one.
 
2012-08-24 12:27:42 PM

IAmRight: I could be persuaded to say the top five can be considered elite. The rest have a lot to prove.

FFS, I'd take Cutler over Matt Ryan, P. Manning, Flacco, Romo, and Vick for this upcoming year. And I think my stance on Cutler is fairly well-known.


What. The. Hell.

Feeling all right?
 
2012-08-24 12:28:18 PM

Jubeebee: I've been saying this for about three years now, but I think this is the year Steven Jackson finally dies on the field. How someone can run that many times with that sort of style for as long as he has kind of boggles my mind.


I'm shocked he's still going too, but hey, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he dies on the field.
 
2012-08-24 12:29:54 PM
elite QB's are ones that consistently deliver even when shiat hits the fan and just seem to be lucky even when they have bad days, guys like Brady/Brees/Rodgers

above average QB's are just as skillful and talented as elite QB's but have just enough dips and unlucky moments that affect their consistency and ability to be superbowl contenders every year, guys like Eli/Ben

average QB's have a lot of potential but either regress or are simply unlucky such that teams can't necessarily turn their passing game up to 11, guys like Flacco/Rivers/Sanchez/Romo/Smith

below average QB's just don't have the luck or skill or potential to lead a team reliably, guys like McNabb/Palmer/Fitzpatrick/Young/SexyRexy/Kolb

guys who miss a lot of games due to injuries (Vick/Stafford/Schaub/Cutler) or bad management (Bradford) or are past their prime for whatever reason (Manning/Hasselbeck) or are relatively new to the NFL (Luck/Griffin/Locker/Yates/Newton/etc.) are hard to place

then there's Tebow, who might as well exist in a vacuum
 
2012-08-24 12:31:27 PM

Jubeebee: I bet it's a 1st for Mike Wallace.


it has to be either wallace of MJD. Luck doesn't have anybody over there.

ehh. who knows.
 
2012-08-24 12:33:38 PM

AdamK: then there's Tebow, who might as well exist in a vacuum



I cannot WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT to see him on the field. in any capacity. spesh if it is due to sanchez sucking. i.e., if he gets starts under center instead of spot wildcat / punt duty. oh the media feeding frenzy that will be.
 
2012-08-24 12:34:15 PM

IAmRight: FFS, I'd take Cutler over Matt Ryan, P. Manning, Flacco, Romo, and Vick for this upcoming year. And I think my stance on Cutler is fairly well-known.


Well the biggest knock on cutler for me is I have never seen someone with so little heart play in the NFL, he would sit out if he had a hangnail to lessen further injury, the boy is soft.

And come on, vick above matt ryan? Vick makes for some thrilling moments in games and is fun to watch.........as long as hes not starting for your team since he will fark up at least twice to give the game away or get injured to shiat the season away.
 
2012-08-24 12:36:42 PM

Your_Huckleberry: What. The. Hell.

Feeling all right?


The dude has a sh*tton of weapons to work with, he's easily going to put up 4000+ yards, 60% completions, and 20+ points/game.

Vick never makes it through the season. Romo will meet those standards but will have a worse supporting cast and will not put up Cutler's numbers. Ryan doesn't even belong in the elite category until he can score in a playoff game. Flacco? HAHAHAHAHAHA and P. Manning is way more questionable - he hasn't looked very good in preseason, he hasn't played in a year, and his team isn't really that good - Tebow miracled them into the playoffs. No, Tebow wasn't good...but the team isn't, either. Can't count on miracles for a full season.
 
2012-08-24 12:37:08 PM

rickythepenguin: I cannot WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT to see him on the field. in any capacity. spesh if it is due to sanchez sucking. i.e., if he gets starts under center instead of spot wildcat / punt duty. oh the media feeding frenzy that will be.


Nick Mangold is an underrated funny athlete to follow on Twitter (if that makes sense), so I'm curious how he responds to a flood of "how was it to have our Lord and Savior's hands under your ass?" tweets.
 
2012-08-24 12:41:04 PM

Killer Cars: Nick Mangold is an underrated funny athlete to follow on Twitter (if that makes sense), so I'm curious how he responds to a flood of "how was it to have our Lord and Savior's hands under your ass?" tweets.



that's funny.....i don't follow any athletes. i guess i could look him up. i've heard him on interviews (rome, patrick) and he's entertaining.

as for the jets, as the cliche goes, "a or an f". if they go 13-3, tha'ts gonna be awesome, if they go 5-11, it is gonna be awesome. and it is interesting how quiet rex has been.
 
2012-08-24 12:42:10 PM

IAmRight: Ryan doesn't even belong in the elite category until he can score in a playoff game.


Everyone likes to shiat on him but his biggest problem has been protection and mularkey last year, that man is a douche, his hiring by jacksonville just saved the falcons the hassle of firing him for incompetence. Good luck jacksonville, if you win 4 games next year I will be shocked.
 
2012-08-24 12:46:16 PM

steamingpile: Everyone likes to shiat on him but his biggest problem has been protection and mularkey last year, that man is a douche, his hiring by jacksonville just saved the falcons the hassle of firing him for incompetence.


Someone pointed out yesterday too that Atlanta's playcalling generally gets REAL conservative in the red zone and/or in goaline situations (Ryan threw the ball just fine all the way down the field, now lets hand it off to Michael Turner for two yard runs straight up the middle when there's 8 men in the box!)

I'm curious if him just throwing for 30+ TDs changes how people perceive him.

/actually winning a playoff game will help, too
 
2012-08-24 12:49:40 PM

Killer Cars: Someone pointed out yesterday too that Atlanta's playcalling generally gets REAL conservative in the red zone and/or in goaline situations (Ryan threw the ball just fine all the way down the field, now lets hand it off to Michael Turner for two yard runs straight up the middle when there's 8 men in the box!)


Yeah and decent teams will kill that playing style since they have a horrible O-line, I am hoping that the new OC can fix that somehow and I think rodgers coming out of the backfield is the answer.
 
2012-08-24 01:03:09 PM

steamingpile: Everyone likes to shiat on him but his biggest problem has been protection and mularkey last year, that man is a douche, his hiring by jacksonville just saved the falcons the hassle of firing him for incompetence. Good luck jacksonville, if you win 4 games next year I will be shocked.


He's an inconsistent QB who'll puts up huge stats against poor competition (half of his TDs last year came in four games), but then play middling ball against average or good competition. He's propped up quite a bit by having Roddy White, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez as his top three receivers, too.
 
2012-08-24 01:06:13 PM

steamingpile: Well the biggest knock on cutler for me is I have never seen someone with so little heart play in the NFL, he would sit out if he had a hangnail to lessen further injury, the boy is soft.


Have you seen the types of hits Cutler takes each game? There are lots of reasons to rag on Cutler, but being soft is not one of them. Sometimes he plays like ass when he gets sacked 8 times a game, but he stays in unless he's physically unable to play.
 
2012-08-24 01:07:35 PM
Panthers signed Clayton?? Don't think he will help Huberdeau much...
 
2012-08-24 01:10:40 PM

Jubeebee: I've been saying this for about three years now, but I think this is the year Steven Jackson finally dies on the field. How someone can run that many times with that sort of style for as long as he has kind of boggles my mind. Yes, it helps that he's the size of a linebacker, but still.


I was reading ESPN Magazine's fantasy preview and someone (it might have been Matthew Berry) said Jackson was "only 29." "Only"!

So, yeah, the time is coming, probably sooner rather than later. It would be sad because he's been a great workhorse for arguably the league's shiattiest franchise all these years. It looks virtually certain that by the time the Rams are minimally competent -- it might happen in a few years, what with all those draft picks they've stockpiled, but it ain't happening this year or next -- Jackson will be long gone.
 
2012-08-24 01:13:32 PM

kronicfeld: He's an inconsistent QB who'll puts up huge stats against poor competition (half of his TDs last year came in four games), but then play middling ball against average or good competition. He's propped up quite a bit by having Roddy White, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez as his top three receivers, too.


So you are missing the point, he plays good against teams with shiat defenses, if you have a team that can rush the QB at all he has issues, you may have noticed but its hard to complete passes when the QB is on his back. The only receiver that has helped him is Tony, Roddy is over rated since he rarely comes back for the ball or blocks very well, I thought they would be better served by trading roddy and getting line or draft picks back for him, Roddy is too small and not nearly as physical as players like Julio and AJ are, that is the future at WR not small speed demons. Hes still better than Vick and most of the QBs in the league, get him protection and hes fine but then atlanta has had that same issue since vick was here, hell since jeff george was here.......
 
2012-08-24 01:20:01 PM

Jubeebee: Have you seen the types of hits Cutler takes each game? There are lots of reasons to rag on Cutler, but being soft is not one of them. Sometimes he plays like ass when he gets sacked 8 times a game, but he stays in unless he's physically unable to play.


Watch his body language and his actions to teammates after that shiat, kid seems to want to blame everyone else for his fark ups instead of himself, the biggest judge of character in sports is what happens after the team farks up, do the leaders end up blaming other or encourage them to pull together.

Cutler has seemed like one that blames the more I watch, when its going good hes fine, when shiat his the fan he starts looking for someone to blame.
 
2012-08-24 01:22:20 PM

steamingpile: you may have noticed but its hard to complete passes when the QB is on his back


He was sacked 26 times in 16 games last season and 23 times the year before. Only three or four QBs were sacked fewer times per game and fewer times per pass attempt.
 
2012-08-24 01:24:14 PM

IAmRight: The dude has a sh*tton of weapons to work with, he's easily going to put up 4000+ yards, 60% completions, and 20+ points/game.


Or the offensive line could continue to allow him to get crushed repeatedly and he could end up injured. Admittedly, they improved from giving up 3 sacks per game in 2010 to a little over 2 sacks per game in 2011 (when Cutler was playing), so maybe they will improve once again...
 
2012-08-24 01:25:20 PM
Can we stop pretending Tony Romo is at all useful yet?
 
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