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(Greek Reporter) NewsFlash Not insane in the membrane   (thelocal.no ) divider line
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32028 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2012 at 5:06 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-08-24 05:42:18 AM  

MayoSlather: cman: Norway isnt the United States

[citation needed]


Their politicians say things like this:

" We must remember that politics is more than a power game. The core of politics in my view is to serve our citizens, to serve our fellow human beings."

And this:

"We have to find compromises. That's the way it is in Norway."

And they don't execute retarded people. What a bunch of libtard biatches.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-08-24 05:42:30 AM  
How does a Norwegian prosecutor prove continued danger to society after 21 years are up?
 
2012-08-24 05:44:02 AM  

Gunther: Virtuoso80: At first I thought I read it wrong. 21 years, with a 10 year minimum? For killing OVER SEVENTY PEOPLE? I mean, fine if you don't want to be a death penalty country, but there's no way this man should ever see the light of day again.

Yeesh, it's been explained both in the article and multiple times in this thread:

"Norway's penal code does not have the death penalty or life in prison, and the maximum prison term for Breivik's charges is 21 years. However, inmates who after that are still considered a threat to society can be held indefinitely."

21 years is the maximum sentence the judge can give. After that, they can hold him indefinitely.


Yes, I read that. I'm not complaining about the judge, I'm complaining about the law. I don't care if he's no longer a threat to society. Premeditated murder of 77 people = you forfeit your life.
 
2012-08-24 05:44:27 AM  
I think he just needed to get told. Link
 
2012-08-24 05:48:20 AM  

ZAZ: How does a Norwegian prosecutor prove continued danger to society after 21 years are up?


The prosecutor doesn't have anything to do with it at that point, it's basically a review board that handles it.
 
2012-08-24 05:50:19 AM  
What's that smell?
www.nme.com
It smells like Otto's jacket.
 
2012-08-24 05:50:20 AM  

scottyvr6: One of my best friends, after ingesting a copious amount of mushrooms, ended up shooting a cop, naked, with her own gun.

Nobody died.

He got 22 years.

WTF


Well that's his own stupidity for not being a Norwegian.
 
2012-08-24 05:51:53 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Who cares? Any updates on Todd Akin or Chick-Fil-A?


A second Todd Akin has just crashed into the South Chick-Fil-A tower
 
2012-08-24 05:52:45 AM  

This is where Breivik will spend the rest of his life:


ap.mnocdn.no
ap.mnocdn.no
ap.mnocdn.no
ap.mnocdn.no

I love the fact that he wont even be allowed to change the screen angle on the provided laptop...
 
2012-08-24 05:53:32 AM  
Insane in the membrane
img844.imageshack.us
"Insane in the Brain!"
 
2012-08-24 05:56:12 AM  
The need for revenge is done away with, in societies like this. Yes, it's a proper need. My country is much the same, but we *do* have a life sentence. And a life sentence in the Netherlands is a proper life sentence; you only leave prison stretched, horizontal, at room temperature.
 
2012-08-24 05:56:15 AM  

cman: There is also a very good chance that he will, too


Sure, forty or fifty years from now, he'll dodder out of the prison gates (after a long succession of forvaring hearings), look at all the young people who don't give a crap about religion or skin color and ask himself: "I threw away my life for this?"
 
2012-08-24 05:57:14 AM  

WegianWarrior: This is where Breivik will spend the rest of his life:
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 380x570]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]

I love the fact that he wont even be allowed to change the screen angle on the provided laptop...



I love the fact that these pictures were taken AFTER the upgrade to his facilities. Didn't even merit a fresh coat of paint.
 
2012-08-24 05:57:22 AM  

Virtuoso80: , I read that.


You don't seem to have understood it. The sentence he received is the Norwegian version of an indeterminate life sentence, which is the maximum allowed under their laws. He's been sentenced to 21 years, but they can extend it indefinitely... Which they'll certainly do for someone who killed so many people. It's not like in 21 years they'll say "Oh, OK, you can go now!". 

He's going to leave prison in a coffin.
 
mjg
2012-08-24 05:58:36 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Who cares? Any updates on Todd Akin or Chick-Fil-A?


www.spikednation.com

The outcome of combining the stories
 
2012-08-24 05:58:45 AM  

WegianWarrior: This is where Breivik will spend the rest of his life:
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 380x570]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]

I love the fact that he wont even be allowed to change the screen angle on the provided laptop...



I need to go commit some crimes in Scandinavia.

I have paid good money to stay in hotels that were not that nice.
 
2012-08-24 06:01:08 AM  
Time to turn on the sauna, kitchen, video games in prison. Here comes the worst criminal in Norway's history.
I'm sure we can get some conjugal visits in there as well.
 
2012-08-24 06:02:36 AM  

scottyvr6: One of my best friends, after ingesting a copious amount of mushrooms, ended up shooting a cop, naked, with her own gun.

Nobody died.

He got 22 years.

WTF


Did she get a sex change during her term?
 
2012-08-24 06:04:32 AM  

Gunther: Virtuoso80: , I read that.

You don't seem to have understood it. The sentence he received is the Norwegian version of an indeterminate life sentence, which is the maximum allowed under their laws. He's been sentenced to 21 years, but they can extend it indefinitely... Which they'll certainly do for someone who killed so many people. It's not like in 21 years they'll say "Oh, OK, you can go now!". 

He's going to leave prison in a coffin.


Good to know, but why even make that step necessary in the first place? Is there any scenario were a legally sane person commits 77 counts of premeditated murder and should go home after 21 years? I'm saying they should junk the provision that makes 21 years the maximum. I mean, with such lax penalties, it almost seems like a person so inclined could find it worth the price to commit a murder or two.
 
2012-08-24 06:05:25 AM  

WegianWarrior: This is where Breivik will spend the rest of his life:
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 380x570]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]
[ap.mnocdn.no image 780x438]

I love the fact that he wont even be allowed to change the screen angle on the provided laptop...


nicer than how i lived as a college student in germany.
 
2012-08-24 06:05:59 AM  

MeinRS6: His crusade against muslims would have made a lot more sense if he had gone and killed a bunch of muslims instead of a bunch of kids at camp.


Norway has it's share of white trash. Many of them are of the opinion that the government that "let the brown people / muslims" into Norway are traitors. Those kids belonged to that party, so in his version of reality, he was killing traitors.

Legally "not crazy" is always a little unsatisfying when someone clearly is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I don't think ABB is crazy. I think this is an extreme example of "garbage in garbage out." He got all his information and opinions from a few echo-chambers on the internet, and he knew nobody in real life who could set him straight. No wonder he turned out the way he did. Not insane, just seriously misinformed.
 
2012-08-24 06:06:42 AM  
Right, so go postal in Norway. Good to know.

Seriously, it may be the law but it ain't right, as I heard someone say apropos of something else.
 
2012-08-24 06:08:28 AM  

Virtuoso80: Gunther: Virtuoso80: , I read that.

You don't seem to have understood it. The sentence he received is the Norwegian version of an indeterminate life sentence, which is the maximum allowed under their laws. He's been sentenced to 21 years, but they can extend it indefinitely... Which they'll certainly do for someone who killed so many people. It's not like in 21 years they'll say "Oh, OK, you can go now!". 

He's going to leave prison in a coffin.

Good to know, but why even make that step necessary in the first place? Is there any scenario were a legally sane person commits 77 counts of premeditated murder and should go home after 21 years? I'm saying they should junk the provision that makes 21 years the maximum. I mean, with such lax penalties, it almost seems like a person so inclined could find it worth the price to commit a murder or two.



Yet somehow those countries have much lower crime rates than we do. Especially violent crime.
 
2012-08-24 06:09:15 AM  
21 years? The only thing insane is your justice system. Good luck with that.

/ Jeebus H. Priest.
// +1 for the CH ref, Subby
 
2012-08-24 06:11:17 AM  

timelady: it may be the law but it ain't right, as


What's wrong about it? He'll never get to leave prison.

crab66: Yet somehow those countries have much lower crime rates than we do. Especially violent crime.


Also lower rates of recidivism.
 
2012-08-24 06:11:42 AM  
hinten:
Time to turn on the sauna, kitchen, video games in prison. Here comes the worst criminal in Norway's history.
I'm sure we can get some conjugal visits in there as well.


Don't joke, right now there is some woman who is thinking "gosh that guy is handsome and speaks well". Maybe she'll start writing him letters, visit him in prison (conjugal prob. not allowed). She's crazy. He is a sane political terrorist who made a rational decision to slaughter innocents as part of a war on liberal multicultural society.
 
2012-08-24 06:11:52 AM  

Nick Nostril: 21 years? The only thing insane is your justice system. Good luck with that.


Have you missed every post in this thread pointing out that he'll never get to leave prison?
 
2012-08-24 06:12:39 AM  

crab66: Virtuoso80: Gunther: Virtuoso80: , I read that.

You don't seem to have understood it. The sentence he received is the Norwegian version of an indeterminate life sentence, which is the maximum allowed under their laws. He's been sentenced to 21 years, but they can extend it indefinitely... Which they'll certainly do for someone who killed so many people. It's not like in 21 years they'll say "Oh, OK, you can go now!". 

He's going to leave prison in a coffin.

Good to know, but why even make that step necessary in the first place? Is there any scenario were a legally sane person commits 77 counts of premeditated murder and should go home after 21 years? I'm saying they should junk the provision that makes 21 years the maximum. I mean, with such lax penalties, it almost seems like a person so inclined could find it worth the price to commit a murder or two.


Yet somehow those countries have much lower crime rates than we do. Especially violent crime.


correlation != causation
 
mhd
2012-08-24 06:14:54 AM  

Gunther: He's going to leave prison in a coffin.


So you're ruling out any chances of him recanting his current views and reintegrating into society?

Not saying that I disagree, but stranger things have happened. In which case he could be out in 10+ years. Although I guess he'd have to become an utter saint to let that trump political motivations of keeping him behind bars. Then again, right now everyone from the Baader-Meinhof group is out, after 20+ years (Germany has the opposite system, where the prisoner can appeal to get out every 5 years, as opposed to the state extending it for 5, so that might make a difference. Might be interesting to look at some statistics).

/The number of posters here who consider prisons to be an embodiment of lex talionis is a bit frightening, though.
 
2012-08-24 06:15:03 AM  

ZAZ: How does a Norwegian prosecutor prove continued danger to society after 21 years are up?


21 years pass:

a) ABB deeply regrets his actions and has spent the majority of those 21 years writing about the pitfalls of extreme ideologies and how he wishes somebody had stopped him.

b) ABB has spent those 21 years organizing european hate groups (as much as he's allowed to, anyway), writing racist / anti-muslim propaganda, and never showed any sign of remorse for his actions.

In case of a) (highly unlikely), he might well be released when those 21 years are up. b) (most likely) will ensure him a life of forvaring.

There's a wide grey zone between a) and b), of course.
 
2012-08-24 06:16:23 AM  

Virtuoso80: correlation != causation


You made the implication that there was a correlation.

Not me.
 
2012-08-24 06:17:04 AM  

Virtuoso80: Yes, I read that. I'm not complaining about the judge, I'm complaining about the law. I don't care if he's no longer a threat to society. Premeditated murder of 77 people = you forfeit your life.


We're better than he is, so no revenge, no executions.

We're not going to sink to his level.
 
2012-08-24 06:18:26 AM  

crab66: I need to go commit some crimes in Scandinavia.

I have paid good money to stay in hotels that were not that nice.


Yeah, but you were allowed to leave those hotels when you wanted.
 
2012-08-24 06:18:34 AM  
What's that you say? They don't have institutionalized prison rape? They don't stick prisoners in oubliettes filled with rat feces? They're not being consumed by an insatiable desire for revenge? They think treating even the most horrid criminals like human beings is commendable or somehow reaffirms their own humanity and separates them from a lynchmob? They don't do everything the way we do it?

I'M OUTRAGED!
 
2012-08-24 06:19:01 AM  

Virtuoso80: Gunther: Virtuoso80: At first I thought I read it wrong. 21 years, with a 10 year minimum? For killing OVER SEVENTY PEOPLE? I mean, fine if you don't want to be a death penalty country, but there's no way this man should ever see the light of day again.

Yeesh, it's been explained both in the article and multiple times in this thread:

"Norway's penal code does not have the death penalty or life in prison, and the maximum prison term for Breivik's charges is 21 years. However, inmates who after that are still considered a threat to society can be held indefinitely."

21 years is the maximum sentence the judge can give. After that, they can hold him indefinitely.

Yes, I read that. I'm not complaining about the judge, I'm complaining about the law. I don't care if he's no longer a threat to society. Premeditated murder of 77 people = you forfeit your life.


Yeah, we definitely should be lecturing the Swedes how to run their criminal justice system - after all, the stats show that ours works SO much better than theirs.
Or maybe we could wait until we get our crime rates down to where they are within shouting distance of theirs before we start preaching.
 
2012-08-24 06:19:21 AM  

Nick Nostril: 21 years? The only thing insane is your justice system. Good luck with that.


What's insane about it? Our criminal justice system works, mostly.
 
2012-08-24 06:19:22 AM  

Uncle Tractor: MeinRS6: His crusade against muslims would have made a lot more sense if he had gone and killed a bunch of muslims instead of a bunch of kids at camp.

Norway has it's share of white trash. Many of them are of the opinion that the government that "let the brown people / muslims" into Norway are traitors. Those kids belonged to that party, so in his version of reality, he was killing traitors.

Legally "not crazy" is always a little unsatisfying when someone clearly is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I don't think ABB is crazy. I think this is an extreme example of "garbage in garbage out." He got all his information and opinions from a few echo-chambers on the internet, and he knew nobody in real life who could set him straight. No wonder he turned out the way he did. Not insane, just seriously misinformed.


a WHOLE LOT OF THIS.

whats amazing to me is that we dont have guys like this on a weekly basis in the US. We have WAY more of them, and they have better access to guns than brevik did. that guy in the AZ who shot that congresswoman was a good example but he was messed up and off his meds, sounds like the same with the guy from the CO movie theater shooting.

Freepers fit this bill perfectly
 
2012-08-24 06:19:52 AM  

crab66: Virtuoso80: correlation != causation

You made the implication that there was a correlation.

Not me.


Well, I think you did too, but whatever. I'm fine with it being a correlation, and I think it is for a large number of countries. That's doesn't mean that making our laws like Norway's will cause a reduction in crime.
 
2012-08-24 06:20:17 AM  

mhd: So you're ruling out any chances of him recanting his current views and reintegrating into society?


Even if he did that, he wouldn't be safe outside of prison. In places like Norway they recognize that sometimes you can have cases where it's not society that wouldn't be safe with a particular person being released, but rather that person wouldn't be safe if they were released.
 
2012-08-24 06:20:36 AM  

Anagrammer: Want to murder people? Visit Norway, where the sentence for murder is less than 100 days in jail per person killed!

/Visit in the next two weeks, and kill any 2 people, and we promise Norway won't sentence you for the 3rd!


Want to be sentenced to life in prison for a non-violent offense? Visit the US.
 
2012-08-24 06:21:09 AM  

WhyteRaven74: timelady: it may be the law but it ain't right, as

What's wrong about it? He'll never get to leave prison.


One hopes. Forgive my cynicism, but i have heard that before and yet...
sometimes justice has to also cover the message sent.
 
2012-08-24 06:23:35 AM  
The verdict is *not* 21 years in prison. It's 21 years preventive detention. These are not the same under the Norwegian law.

It is an indefinite sentence that may be given to dangerous offenders. Even though the sentence is indefinite in length, there is an established time-frame. This cannot stretch over more than 21 years, and may after this be extended by up to five years at a time when the risk of serious re-offending is still considered to be present.

So Breivik is, in fact and in practice, sentenced to life in prison. He'll never see the outside world again.

/Norwegian journalist covering the trial.
 
2012-08-24 06:23:49 AM  

Bontesla: Anagrammer: Want to murder people? Visit Norway, where the sentence for murder is less than 100 days in jail per person killed!

/Visit in the next two weeks, and kill any 2 people, and we promise Norway won't sentence you for the 3rd!

Want to be sentenced to life in prison for a non-offense? Visit the US.


FTFY.
 
2012-08-24 06:24:14 AM  

Virtuoso80: That's doesn't mean that making our laws like Norway's will cause a reduction in crime.


Well you won't know until you've tried it, will you?
 
2012-08-24 06:25:20 AM  

cman: Bathia_Mapes: Bonanza Jellybean: 21 years seems like a light sentence.

Did you RTA?

21 years is the maximum sentence in Norway, but it can be extended indefinitely if the criminal poses a danger to society at the end of served time.

In other words, there's a very good chance that he'll never be released from prison.

There is also a very good chance that he will, too


Nope. This is Public Enemy #1 in Norway, we're talking about here. Breivik getting released is about as likely as Charles Manson getting out. It just won't happen.
 
2012-08-24 06:25:31 AM  

one small post for man: What's that you say? They don't have institutionalized prison rape? They don't stick prisoners in oubliettes filled with rat feces? They're not being consumed by an insatiable desire for revenge? They think treating even the most horrid criminals like human beings is commendable or somehow reaffirms their own humanity and separates them from a lynchmob? They don't do everything the way we do it?

I'M OUTRAGED!


You have to remember that even when European ideas superficially appear to work better than ours, it's only because everything is "different" there. Everything is real small, and the people are all the same color, y'see, so their bad ideas only APPEAR to work better than our superior, American ideas.
It's simple once you understand.
 
2012-08-24 06:27:36 AM  

ap.mnocdn.no
WELCOME TO FARK

 
2012-08-24 06:28:43 AM  

Virtuoso80: That's doesn't mean that making our laws like Norway's will cause a reduction in crime.


Well what we've been doing hasn't helped very much. Increasing punishments, turning what had been misdemeanors and turning them into felonies etc. Also our way of running prisons isn't exactly helping things either.
 
2012-08-24 06:33:04 AM  

Uncle Tractor: cman: There is also a very good chance that he will, too

Sure, forty or fifty years from now, he'll dodder out of the prison gates (after a long succession of forvaring hearings), look at all the young people who don't give a crap about religion or skin color and ask himself: "I threw away my life for this?"


I'm sure that will change his mind and not send him on another murderous rampage.
 
2012-08-24 06:33:05 AM  

timelady: WhyteRaven74: timelady: it may be the law but it ain't right, as

What's wrong about it? He'll never get to leave prison.


One hopes. Forgive my cynicism, but i have heard that before and yet...
sometimes justice has to also cover the message sent.


Look, obviously a successful country with low crime rates and increased rates of general satisfaction know how to handle their business.

Your skepticism is suggesting their success is a fluke - that somehow despite all evidence - they are incapable of handling a prison sentencing. You're suggesting that you know better because why?
 
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