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(The Atlantic)   "For those who've long treasured white exclusivity, the existence of a President Barack Obama is discombobulating, even terrifying"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 259
    More: Obvious, obama, human beings, Governors of Michigan, Jennifer Granholm, term in office, The Audacity of Hope, Frederick Douglass, Ta-Nehisi Coates  
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4058 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Aug 2012 at 2:48 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-24 01:47:28 AM  
This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

 
 
2012-08-24 01:51:57 AM  

Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.


IMHO, it's an excellent article.
 
2012-08-24 01:55:26 AM  
tl;d...

Bathia_Mapes: Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

IMHO, it's an excellent article.


Oh, fine! Be back in an hour or so.
 
2012-08-24 01:56:02 AM  
Good read. Nice find, smits.
 
2012-08-24 01:58:27 AM  
Barack Obama governs a nation enlightened enough to send an African American to the White House, but not enlightened enough to accept a black man as its president.

Yep, lots of this.
 
2012-08-24 01:59:14 AM  
"White exclusivity"?

/the f*ck?
//I must have been raised wrong
///and I came from a long line of Southerners
 
2012-08-24 02:01:30 AM  

Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.


I definitely agree. Great piece.
 
2012-08-24 02:03:46 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

I definitely agree. Great piece.


I'm assuming it is a subconscious thing. Will have to read this tomorrow when I have time.
 
2012-08-24 02:05:43 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

I definitely agree. Great piece.



There were so many fantastic points in it, but I think one of the ones that really stuck out was the fact that Obama really does have very limited ability to deal with hot button issues that have a racial component, particularly legalization.

Something worth meditating on for progressives who are disappointed that he hasn't made any drug policy reforms.
 
2012-08-24 02:14:11 AM  

fusillade762: tl;d...

Bathia_Mapes: Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

IMHO, it's an excellent article.

Oh, fine! Be back in an hour or so.

 
2012-08-24 02:17:17 AM  
Is it bad that I'm surprised that there isn't really any derp to speak of in the article's comments?
 
2012-08-24 02:21:38 AM  
Damn iPad... I was attempting to quote the Mollusk up there.
 
2012-08-24 02:21:41 AM  
It's weird to see an article greenlit that was both insightful and well-written, accompanied by a headline that wasn't trolling. Didn't we used to have a lot more of these greenlit?
 
2012-08-24 02:48:51 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's weird to see an article greenlit that was both insightful and well-written, accompanied by a headline that wasn't trolling. Didn't we used to have a lot more of these greenlit?


I submitted this with a troller headline.

/not really
 
2012-08-24 02:54:21 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's weird to see an article greenlit that was both insightful and well-written, accompanied by a headline that wasn't trolling. Didn't we used to have a lot more of these greenlit?


"Back in the day, trolling used to mean something"? FARK is pretty much trolling 24-7 lately...
 
2012-08-24 02:55:15 AM  

Frederick: fusillade762: tl;d...

Bathia_Mapes: Genevieve Marie: This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.

IMHO, it's an excellent article.

Oh, fine! Be back in an hour or so.


I take mine back. I'm not going to be able to get through that. Kudos to those who do...what I did read was worthwhile.
 
2012-08-24 02:55:20 AM  

Genevieve Marie: There were so many fantastic points in it, but I think one of the ones that really stuck out was the fact that Obama really does have very limited ability to deal with hot button issues that have a racial component, particularly legalization. Something worth meditating on for progressives who are disappointed that he hasn't made any drug policy reforms.


True enough, but it's still a more viable complaint than "Kenyan usurper fart certificate." :P
 
2012-08-24 02:57:29 AM  
Genevieve Marie       
 
This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.



A:thanks
b: great to see you posting with us lesser beings. I kid.
great to see you again about and with this subject. Take care
c: off to read
 
2012-08-24 03:01:01 AM  
It's late and I'm in no condition to read this and comment coherently.

Saving it for tomorrow morning, however. See you then.
 
2012-08-24 03:02:22 AM  

alienated: Genevieve Marie       
 
This is a long, complicated piece that takes awhile to read. It's also maybe the best thing that's been written on the topic of race and the Obama presidency.


A:thanks
b: great to see you posting with us lesser beings. I kid.
great to see you again about and with this subject. Take care
c: off to read



Enjoy it, and nice to see you. I've been around, I've just been lurking for a couple of weeks.
 
2012-08-24 03:04:07 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "White exclusivity"?

/the f*ck?
//I must have been raised wrong
///and I came from a long line of Southerners


Easy mode, dude. Easy mode.

Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is

Who'd want to give that up?
 
2012-08-24 03:05:50 AM  
Ooh, I'm in early in a politics thread that will probably have a few hundred comments.
Come on, GIAC, think of something witty, something to speak for those who post after me...

I need to engage in the conversation while not becoming the focus of it. I might even be quoted. It needs to be unbiased, and of value to all viewpoints...

....

BLACKS SHOULD GO BACK TO AFRICA   



/apologies to Bill Burr
 
2012-08-24 03:07:56 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's weird to see an article greenlit that was both insightful and well-written, accompanied by a headline that wasn't trolling. Didn't we used to have a lot more of these greenlit?


Not since I started in late 2006.

/ Not that I can remember anyway
// Of course, I have shiatty memory
/// OH SHIAT! It's my fault, isn't it?!
 
2012-08-24 03:10:15 AM  
fta his indelible blackness irradiates everything he touches.

Safety first

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-24 03:10:15 AM  

sendtodave: MaudlinMutantMollusk: "White exclusivity"?

/the f*ck?
//I must have been raised wrong
///and I came from a long line of Southerners

Easy mode, dude. Easy mode.

Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is

Who'd want to give that up?


Well, that certainly doesn't describe my life, but, ok...

/I just was saying I was never raised to recognize any differences in people
//I hang out down there on the lower rungs of the economic ladder where there are more pressing things to worry about
 
2012-08-24 03:10:37 AM  
The fact that Obama doesn't feel the need to be "the black president" says a lot of positive things about how race relations have progressed in the US: 365 electoral college votes worth of us, at minimum, no longer give a single flying fark about the genetic backgrounds of our elected officials.

The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore. Or, at least, not civil rights for Blacks, I guess you could argue that Gay marriage is up there in the top 5 or 10 issues of the decade.
 
2012-08-24 03:11:19 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: I need to engage in the conversation while not becoming the focus of it.


While tacos are delicious, everyone knows God is not a taco.
 
2012-08-24 03:13:00 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: /I just was saying I was never raised to recognize any differences in people



But you do anyway, whether you know it or not. It's literally impossible to be raised in this country and this culture and not subconsciously absorb some of the ideas that are dominant within it.

That's actually a lot of what the piece explains. There's one short line in it that does a very good job of explaining racism: "Racism is not merely a simplistic hatred. It is, more often, broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others." 
 
2012-08-24 03:13:05 AM  
I was actually afraid of what I would be stumbling into. Pleasantly surprised. Excellent read.
 
2012-08-24 03:13:28 AM  
Once again, leftist racism implies that its problem is a problem that everyone shares.
 
2012-08-24 03:14:29 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore.


I don't think the intended audience for this is people like you and me, but those who are struggling with or clinging to their own racism.
 
2012-08-24 03:15:16 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore. Or, at least, not civil rights for Blacks, I guess you could argue that Gay marriage is up there in the top 5 or 10 issues of the decade.



You know, I've seen that point brought up so many times, and it's never made sense to me from a logical perspective. Do you really think an issue that's been present in this country literally since its inception just disappeared without a trace in the last few decades, leaving no legacy or cultural imprint?

 
 
2012-08-24 03:17:17 AM  

GranoblasticMan: God-is-a-Taco: I need to engage in the conversation while not becoming the focus of it.

While tacos are delicious, everyone knows God is not a taco.


God is a calzone?

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-24 03:17:20 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore. Or, at least, not civil rights for Blacks, I guess you could argue that Gay marriage is up there in the top 5 or 10 issues of the decade.


you are a fuggin' idiot, and this is rich old white guy vs 'poor' old black guy with two hands tied behind his back and

OBAMA 2012
FIRE BIDEN


/this is a race war in the making
//Utah was first state to outlaw pot: tinyurl.com/1mn
/white men hide behind the laws they create
//i am not white i am not anglo saxon i am native american... just like Obama
 
2012-08-24 03:18:48 AM  

Genevieve Marie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: /I just was saying I was never raised to recognize any differences in people


But you do anyway, whether you know it or not. It's literally impossible to be raised in this country and this culture and not subconsciously absorb some of the ideas that are dominant within it.

That's actually a lot of what the piece explains. There's one short line in it that does a very good job of explaining racism: "Racism is not merely a simplistic hatred. It is, more often, broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others."


So no matter what I think I believe, I'm still a racist because someone else tells me I am?

/what f*cking ever
//I guess complete indifference is still racist
 
2012-08-24 03:18:53 AM  

GranoblasticMan: Jim_Callahan: The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore.

I don't think the intended audience for this is people like you and me, but those who are struggling with or clinging to their own racism.



I actually disagree. I think some of the points in that piece are pretty advanced social justice stuff, and that someone struggling with or clinging to their own racism is going to have a hard time even delving that far into it. Possibly I'm wrong, and I hope so.

I feel like the piece was more useful as a tool for understanding some of the reasons the Obama presidency has played out the way it has- why he's approached everything from such a moderate, pragmatic perspective and why progressives that reproach him for that possibly need to consider it through this lense.
 
 
2012-08-24 03:20:13 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So no matter what I think I believe, I'm still a racist because someone else tells me I am?



The point was that racism is probably a lot more complicated than you think it is.
 
2012-08-24 03:22:43 AM  

Genevieve Marie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: So no matter what I think I believe, I'm still a racist because someone else tells me I am?


The point was that racism is probably a lot more complicated than you think it is.


Even in my own mind?
 
2012-08-24 03:23:18 AM  

GranoblasticMan: God-is-a-Taco: I need to engage in the conversation while not becoming the focus of it.

While tacos are delicious, everyone knows God is not a taco.


You just haven't met the right taco yet.
 
2012-08-24 03:24:00 AM  
For most of American history, our political system was premised on two conflicting facts-one, an oft-stated love of democracy; the other, an undemocratic white supremacy inscribed at every level of government. In warring against that paradox, African Americans have historically been restricted to the realm of protest and agitation. But when President Barack Obama pledged to "get to the bottom of exactly what happened," he was not protesting or agitating. He was not appealing to federal power-he was employing it. The power was black-and, in certain quarters, was received as such.

...

It is, after all, one thing to hear "I am Trayvon Martin" from the usual placard-waving rabble-rousers. Hearing it from the commander of the greatest military machine in human history is another.


Oh, wow, this is good.

You see this again and again, I think. The ideals that the US was founded on, and that we really do hold dear, are incredible. But we want to desperately hold on to our power, to the status quo, to stability and "normalcy," so we tend to toss them aside whenever things get hairy.

That we collectively lost our minds after 9/11 is an example.

It seems to me that the desire for equality, for progress, for change is deep rooted in our collective psyche, but so is the fear of change.
 
2012-08-24 03:24:08 AM  
Yes, we knew about the very small % of American's who have that issue.
 
2012-08-24 03:24:57 AM  

Genevieve Marie: You know, I've seen that point brought up so many times, and it's never made sense to me from a logical perspective. Do you really think an issue that's been present in this country literally since its inception just disappeared without a trace in the last few decades, leaving no legacy or cultural imprint?


Without a trace? No.

The province of old, irrelevant, and senile people and some fringe idiots? Yes.

You're never going to kill anything completely, there's still a subculture based around brass, steam power, and zeppelins. That doesn't mean that steam locomotives and aetheric conduction need long-winded articles written debunking their prominence in national publications.
 
2012-08-24 03:25:10 AM  
First page done, excellent read so far.
 
2012-08-24 03:25:39 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, that certainly doesn't describe my life, but, ok...

/I just was saying I was never raised to recognize any differences in people
//I hang out down there on the lower rungs of the economic ladder where there are more pressing things to worry about


So was I. Section 8 white kid.

I still had an easier time through life than my multiethinic friends and neighbors, all in all.
 
2012-08-24 03:26:56 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Genevieve Marie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: So no matter what I think I believe, I'm still a racist because someone else tells me I am?


The point was that racism is probably a lot more complicated than you think it is.

Even in my own mind?



Honestly? Yes. Everyone, to some degree, forms their ideas based on the culture they live in. EVERYONE. This particular culture promotes some really unhealthy narratives about race, and even though people like you (and me, and other decent human beings) have filtered through the worst ones and rejected them, it still takes a lot of time and effort to filter through the more subtle ones. That's all I was getting at.
 
2012-08-24 03:28:05 AM  

Genevieve Marie: GranoblasticMan: Jim_Callahan: The fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates feels an emotional need to wall-of-text the internet about this despite no one else caring is more indicative of some personal struggles with racism than anything whatsoever about society. Let it go, man, turns out the '70s are over and equal rights, having been pretty much achieved, aren't the major defining issue of the era anymore.

I don't think the intended audience for this is people like you and me, but those who are struggling with or clinging to their own racism.


I actually disagree. I think some of the points in that piece are pretty advanced social justice stuff, and that someone struggling with or clinging to their own racism is going to have a hard time even delving that far into it. Possibly I'm wrong, and I hope so.

I feel like the piece was more useful as a tool for understanding some of the reasons the Obama presidency has played out the way it has- why he's approached everything from such a moderate, pragmatic perspective and why progressives that reproach him for that possibly need to consider it through this lense.


Hmm... I see your point. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic* about getting to those who are willing to question their own racism.

Regardless, it's a good read.

* Don't worry, that doesn't happen often, I promise
 
2012-08-24 03:29:18 AM  
Snark aside, that was a good article, thankyou. :)
 
2012-08-24 03:30:35 AM  
"The thing is, a black man can't be president in America, given the racial aversion and history that's still out there," Cornell Belcher, a pollster for Obama, told the journalist Gwen Ifill after the 2008 election. "However, an extraordinary, gifted, and talented young man who happens to be black can be president."

"Happens to be black?"

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-24 03:30:36 AM  

sendtodave: It seems to me that the desire for equality, for progress, for change is deep rooted in our collective psyche, but so is the fear of change.



That's a fantastic point, and well expressed.

Jim_Callahan: You're never going to kill anything completely, there's still a subculture based around brass, steam power, and zeppelins. That doesn't mean that steam locomotives and aetheric conduction need long-winded articles written debunking their prominence in national publications.



I think we're probably not going to come to a consensus on this. I also think that you probably didn't take the time to read the entire article or really consider its points before reaching your own conclusion.
 
2012-08-24 03:31:22 AM  

sendtodave: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, that certainly doesn't describe my life, but, ok...

/I just was saying I was never raised to recognize any differences in people
//I hang out down there on the lower rungs of the economic ladder where there are more pressing things to worry about

So was I. Section 8 white kid.

I still had an easier time through life than my multiethinic friends and neighbors, all in all.


Don't harsh his buzz, dude.
 
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