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(The Atlantic)   Feminist progress now largely depends on the hookup culture, and it is women who are perpetuating the culture. For college girls, an overly serious suitor is like an accidental pregnancy; a danger that can get in the way of a promising future   (theatlantic.com) divider line 47
    More: Interesting, Feminist progress, Tucker Max, sexual freedom, sexual revolution, Title IX, feminists, acting out, Kathleen Bogle  
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8723 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Aug 2012 at 9:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-08-23 11:34:41 PM  
8 votes:
I blame internet porn. No, hear me out.

It's time to address the growing influence that legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

It's not just the sheer availability and volume of porn nowadays, it's the intensity. Sure, we all had Playboys stashed under our beds, but developing a sexual appetite through softcore magazine spreads is not equivalent to today's teenagers being sexually weaned on Brazilian bukakke beastiality.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic and demanding.

There has been a noted rise in teenage girls seeking their first sexual gratification from their friends (the so-called lesbian phase) because all the boys in their schools are absolute monsters. Virgin teen girls are nervous and apprehensive and vulnerable when they become sexually active. They want their first experience to be with someone they trust, and teenage boys seem to be not that interested in intimacy or anything meaningful. They want to get off and move on, in the most demeaning way possible, just like the videos they watch every night.

By the time they get to college, the girls are basically competing with Redtube and Bangbus. They must put out or the guys don't care. And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deepthroat a full load or no guy will pay any interest in them. It's all very cruel and atavistic, and probably would not be so extreme without such easy access to hardcore porn.
2012-08-23 09:47:51 PM  
5 votes:
I slept with a ton of guys in college but it had nothing to do with feminism. It has to do with the fact that I like sex.
2012-08-23 10:14:01 PM  
4 votes:

MorePeasPlease: "It was empowering, to have that kind of control," she recalls. "Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down. I really enjoyed it! I had these options to hook up if I wanted them, and no one would judge me for it."



THAT is the heart of the issue. They enjoy the attention, the feeling of being better than the men because they know they are on the pedestal and call the shots. That's all this really comes down to. It's not even really about the sex, or relationships or lack of. College girls figured out that they way they can obtain the most attention and control is by acting like this.
2012-08-23 10:13:39 PM  
4 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: If feminist progress is predicated on women rejecting romance and real relationships, then it is an ethos that is useless and dangerous to its adherents.


Or they're just waiting until they're financially independent and emotionally mature and having some fun on the side while working towards those two things rather than being on 16 and Pregnant or Teen Mom.
2012-08-23 07:56:27 PM  
4 votes:
Too old for High School Teachers to abuse me. Too old for college hookup culture.

Time to die.
2012-08-24 07:29:08 AM  
3 votes:
I love the so-called feminists who feel enpowered by emulating the worst traits of the frat boys they complain about.
2012-08-24 02:54:30 AM  
3 votes:
The goal for both sexes is presumably to find a lasting relationship with a suitable partner, leading to greater fulfillment/happiness, at least this is what conventional wisdom says.

The problem for both sexes is pretense. The man full of economic potential and the woman sporting envious curves are both hollow endeavors. This pretense instantiates a culture where men are too desperate, and women are too drunk with the power their bodies give them. We buy into this husk of a life and gender expectations with the idea that society's blue print is a yellow brick road; we're not particularly surprised when that ends up being the sham we always suspected.

Women are beginning to realize this and now seek an ambitious career of their own because that's what empowered women do now. It's a statement of independence. This reaction is overcompensating for years of being viewed as the weaker sex. In time the reaction will be more measured, but it must run its course.

Unfortunately for men there is now a massive amount of cognitive dissonance in the minds of women. Women want to be equals, and they should be, but they still cling to old ideas of what a man should be. He should make more money than her, he should be smarter, and he should be in control. This causes discord.

An increase in promiscuous activity by women is an outlet for the cognitive dissonce. It's letting the man be the man in spurts without sacrificing their independence. This mentality is flawed and a detriment to the end game of finding a partner to share a meaningful relationship.
2012-08-24 01:00:01 AM  
3 votes:
314/:

Okay, I'm old, so maybe I'm seriously missing the point, but:

I know a bunch of 50+ year old men and women who didn't risk commitment 25 years ago, and they're rich, and they're good looking, and they're sad. They fly off to Cabo and lie on the beach and drink fruity drinks with lots of rum. And I also know a bunch of 50+ who barely make their utilities bill, never go on a vacation, and are deleriously happy because they get to play with their grandchildren. It's not about sex or hooking up (everybody's doing that): it's about culture. From a practical perspective, it makes sense to do stuff that will make you a happy geezer.


How do you know they're sad? And even if they are, how do you know it's because they didn't have kids and grandkids? Beachcombing and fruity drinks doesn't sound very sad to me. And having kids doesn't guarantee that those kids will have your grandkids, or that they won't be in juvenile detention. Besides, what right does someone have to say, I raised you, now give me grandkids so I can be happy? I see your anecdotal evidence, and raise you with my own. I've seen plenty of 50+ DINKs who are perfectly happy doing their own thing, and plenty of 50-somethings with children who were miserable because they passed up their chances to have their own good time.

Lady Egalitarian already said it. Do what makes you happy. Stop worrying about the others.
2012-08-23 10:24:14 PM  
3 votes:
I think we're quickly heading to a point (if we haven't passed it already) where we need to have to have a serious conversation about empowering boys and men to the same degree we do for girls and women. The cultural stereotype of today for relationships is the juvenile man-child and the savvy, independent woman who makes him grow up into a respectable adult. There'll be a day when all of these 30-something, casual sex loving, career women are sitting around a table wondering why all the men are still playing Xbox and drinking milk out of the carton.

It would be deeply ironic (but amusing) if feminism ended up reversing the traditional roles completely, and "good" men became the scarce resource in the relationship marketplace. Would at least be an interesting experiment to see what happens when women have to work for it and men have their pick of the litter.
2012-08-23 10:24:04 PM  
3 votes:

taurusowner: MorePeasPlease: "It was empowering, to have that kind of control," she recalls. "Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down. I really enjoyed it! I had these options to hook up if I wanted them, and no one would judge me for it."


THAT is the heart of the issue. They enjoy the attention, the feeling of being better than the men because they know they are on the pedestal and call the shots. That's all this really comes down to. It's not even really about the sex, or relationships or lack of. College girls figured out that they way they can obtain the most attention and control is by acting like this.


What issue? Are they doing anything illegal? Is it demonstrably harmful to society? Or are they just enjoying the freedom to act like pigs, just like men?

That's the real win of feminism. Women are free to do what they want and behave how they want within the confines of the law. They are not required to be lesser or greater than men. They are not required to take the moral high road because of the past injustices done to their sex that should have somehow taught them to be the better person.

They are simply free to be people, and engage in all the disgusting and wonderful possibilities that entails.
2012-08-23 10:16:01 PM  
3 votes:
This is true. Even my unattractive female friends juggle two or three boys at a time. It seems to me that it may be men who are the naturally monogamous ones.
2012-08-23 10:12:16 PM  
3 votes:
Okay. Who cares? Go have fun.

/Protip: This is less likely to happen at engineering schools.
2012-08-23 10:06:22 PM  
3 votes:
Look I'm all for enjoyment of sex and all but there has to be a distinction being made where you can enjoy sex because it's sex and enjoying how you attain sex because it puts you on equal footing with men.

This is why double standards will continue to exist as to how many people a guy sleeps with in comparison with a girl's tally.
2012-08-23 10:01:55 PM  
3 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: If feminist progress is predicated on women rejecting romance and real relationships, then it is an ethos that is useless and dangerous to its adherents.


Or, y'know, there's a portion of the population that like sex but see no need for relationships.
2012-08-23 10:00:04 PM  
3 votes:
This is useful information, but it's kind of pointless to post it on a forum frequented by people who couldn't get laid in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons.
2012-08-23 10:36:37 PM  
2 votes:
"pick of the litter" No, I've turned down my share of beautiful, sexy women. Chemistry!

ie: You're built like a brick shiathouse, but your personality/batshiat crazy/bipolar ain't worth your cooch!
I don't care if milks two quarts!
2012-08-23 10:23:11 PM  
2 votes:
Who could have guessed that people in their late teens and early twenties wouldn't be interested in serious relationships? Absolutely no one. It has shocked us all.
2012-08-23 10:05:18 PM  
2 votes:
Who the fark has time to seriously date while taking classes and possibly also working? Relationships take time and organization that is not easily attained while in school.

It's the same deal as with the diets of college students. Sure, eating better might be preferable but they don't have the resources (time/money/living space) to make that realistic. But their bodies still crave food, and so they eat shiat.

Students don't have the resources for real relationships, but their minds and bodies still crave intimacy and sex. So the relationships they do have are of the fast food convenience variety.

The students aren't to blame for taking what they can get and doing their best with it, male or female.
2012-08-23 10:01:10 PM  
2 votes:
Ist wave: we want to vote!
2nd wave: equal pay!
3rd wave: hey y'all, look at my boobs!
2012-08-23 09:58:31 PM  
2 votes:
Which is why abortion should be legal until the 57th trimester.
2012-08-23 09:56:47 PM  
2 votes:
If feminist progress is predicated on women rejecting romance and real relationships, then it is an ethos that is useless and dangerous to its adherents.
2012-08-23 09:55:26 PM  
2 votes:

Mugato: Lsherm: //never saw that woman again, but I was so drunk I couldn't remember what she looked like the next day

And if she was drunk too, you could have been brought up on rape charges.

/maybe not republican rape but rape nonetheless
//said rape twice


I never understood why a guy would rape a woman when he could just force her to have sex. Seriously, why put them through the trauma.
2012-08-24 02:28:00 PM  
1 votes:

AaronSynn: I love the so-called feminists who feel enpowered by emulating the worst traits of the frat boys they complain about.


Thisity this this! You nailed it.
2012-08-24 08:20:57 AM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: I think the hookup culture makes sense. One should always start with the simple things, then move up to the complex ones. Sex is simple. Relationships are complex.

Sexual relationships are quantum.


The problem seems to be that, for many women, sex is not simple, yet they are giving the "hook-up" culture a try, or, worse, they're in a subculture where the hook-up attitude is expected. If pregnancy and the strength difference (women being at risk for forced sex) are factored in, sex is NEVER simple for women, no matter how "enlightened" they consider themselves or how casually their culture treats the sex act. Never.

I made the mistake in my youth of thinking that I could treat the sex act relatively casually. No matter how much I tried to justify that in my head, my emotions told me the truth. I was lucky to be in culture that empowered me to change my mind about that, and to learn to expect both commitment and respect from men. That attitude is not inconsistent with being a modern, educated, powerful woman, no matter how much some cultural loudmouths insist that it is.
2012-08-24 04:57:59 AM  
1 votes:

MayoSlather: An increase in promiscuous activity by women is an outlet for the cognitive dissonce. It's letting the man be the man in spurts without sacrificing their independence. This mentality is flawed and a detriment to the end game of finding a partner to share a meaningful relationship.


Throughout human history women have lived through shotgun weddings to raise the next generation, and in that time millions of stories have been told about the difficulty of finding true love once the fairy tale wears off. I don't think that having sex early is mutually exclusive to finding meaning in love with another at some point in your life, they're almost completely unrelated.

hundreddollarman: That was a thoughtful, well-written and informative post. What the hell are you doing on Fark?

/Seriously, that was a really good post.


It's the same bullshiat he peddles in every thread about college sex, might even be copypasta by now. If anything, young men are less misogynistic pigs than at any time in the past, and maybe the uncrossing of the legs is in some way their reward for behaving in a somewhat civilized manner toward women.

Where there's alcohol and hormones, there's drunken sex (and pressure, and rape); there always has been and always will be, and outside influences don't have nearly as much to do with it as moral crusaders would like.
2012-08-24 03:55:14 AM  
1 votes:
I think the hookup culture makes sense. One should always start with the simple things, then move up to the complex ones. Sex is simple. Relationships are complex.

Sexual relationships are quantum.
2012-08-24 01:11:35 AM  
1 votes:
At 25, most people I know are living the hook-up culture. The biggest complaints I hear about dating are incompatibility, clingers, and various stages of psychosis.

My generation has come of age in a tumultuous time, where everything we were raised to believe has crashed down in utter failure. Needless to say, many of us are apprehensive to commit to anything that doesn't boast immediate, sharp gains. I know that after watching my parents get divorced, I'm alarmingly selective when it comes to picking the right woman. There's no need to piss away decades of my life to fulfill the dreams of others.

I think both young men and women feel this way, and it's probably for the best. There's no reason to marry for the simple sake of it. Being alone sucks sometimes, but it's better than being with someone I resent. I, like most of my friends, enjoy the simplicity of an adult life with no boundaries. Frequent travel, wild adventures, and yes, tawdry hookups are all experiences that are much more attractive than arguments, family pressures, and financial strain.

As a former hopeless romantic, I tell you, the hook-up culture is where it's at. It is about becoming fully self-aware before burdening another with your wild idiosyncrasies.
2012-08-24 12:30:15 AM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: I blame internet porn. No, hear me out.

It's time to address the growing influence that legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

It's not just the sheer availability and volume of porn nowadays, it's the intensity. Sure, we all had Playboys stashed under our beds, but developing a sexual appetite through softcore magazine spreads is not equivalent to today's teenagers being sexually weaned on Brazilian bukakke beastiality.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic and demanding.

There has been a noted rise in teenage girls seeking their first sexual gratification from their friends (the so-called lesbian phase) because all the boys in their schools are absolute monsters. Virgin teen girls are nervous and apprehensive and vulnerable when they become sexually active. They want their first experience to be with someone they trust, and teenage boys seem to be not that interested in intimacy or anything meaningful. They want to get off and move on, in the most demeaning way possible, just like the videos they watch every night.

By the time they get to college, the girls are basically competing with Redtube and Bangbus. They must put out or the guys don't care. And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deepthroat a full load or no guy will pay any interest in them. It's all very cruel and atavistic, and probably would not be so extreme without such easy access to hardcore porn.


That was a thoughtful, well-written and informative post. What the hell are you doing on Fark?

/Seriously, that was a really good post.
2012-08-23 11:52:36 PM  
1 votes:
Awfully long article just to talk about whores.
2012-08-23 11:36:26 PM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: I blame internet porn. No, hear me out.

It's time to address the growing influence that legions of misogynistic videos are having on the newer generations.

It's not just the sheer availability and volume of porn nowadays, it's the intensity. Sure, we all had Playboys stashed under our beds, but developing a sexual appetite through softcore magazine spreads is not equivalent to today's teenagers being sexually weaned on Brazilian bukakke beastiality.

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic and demanding.

There has been a noted rise in teenage girls seeking their first sexual gratification from their friends (the so-called lesbian phase) because all the boys in their schools are absolute monsters. Virgin teen girls are nervous and apprehensive and vulnerable when they become sexually active. They want their first experience to be with someone they trust, and teenage boys seem to be not that interested in intimacy or anything meaningful. They want to get off and move on, in the most demeaning way possible, just like the videos they watch every night.

By the time they get to college, the girls are basically competing with Redtube and Bangbus. They must put out or the guys don't care. And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deepthroat a full load or no guy will pay any interest in them. It's all very cruel and atavistic, and probably would not be so extreme without such easy access to hardcore porn.


God bless the internet.
2012-08-23 11:33:34 PM  
1 votes:
olddinosaur:

You work for 70% of a man's wages,.

If there was one tired, misleading statistic I could take out back and give the Old Yeller treatment to, it would be this one.


Regardless, the number of people and commentators who are surprised at an entire generation who views life as completely disposable and who are turning relationships into momentary physical interludes on the order of macro-Brownian Motion is troubling, simply because these "watchers of culture" are also missing out on the symptoms of this empty culture at large. The post-X generations neither have anything tangible, nor do they place any value in things of permanence. They collect nothing physical; everything is temporary. Photos? On the phone. Music? On the cloud. Books? Who reads? They can get it on their tablet anyways. Cars? Housing? Nope (you were joking about those, right?). Jobs? Move where-ever / when-ever they feel like it. Who needs friends in the real world when I have Twit-book?

Where there is nothing to anchor a life in the physical world, there can be no relationships of permanence either.
2012-08-23 11:21:35 PM  
1 votes:

taurusowner: This is why men "have to" by women drinks at the bar, pay for the first few dates, etc. The control has flowed to the female. They know it and love it.


I'm gonna stop you right there. If you're buying some random chick at the bar drinks you're not getting laid that often. And if you pay for every first date you haven't been dating very long. I can tell within the span of the date if I want to have sex with this woman at some point in the near future or if I'm going to see her again, if the answer is no on both of those then we're going dutch.

And if you act like that to a girl that's friendzoned you, you are a sucker. What a man who knows what hes doing does is keep the hot female friends and then pick up other girls to take home in front of them, or at least attempt it. If you're begging for her attention she's never going to lay you.

I know it sounds like some of that douche bag pick-up artist crap, but it's not. If you look desperate you look unattractive as a sexual mate. You do look attractive as someone that will buy them drinks though. Don't get used

/I've gone on dates where the woman just expects that I'll be paying, no matter how weird, or rude she is. I don't play the dating for dinner game.
2012-08-23 11:04:42 PM  
1 votes:
uhoh here comes the bitter brigade.

look just do what you want (as long as it involves consenting adults and condoms) and don't worry what anybody else is doing.

\found a good man, no longer bitter.
2012-08-23 10:57:39 PM  
1 votes:

Oh_Enough_Already: Curiously, at the same time, so much as saying "Lovely day today isn't it?" so a woman who doesn't find you attractive can be sufficient to merit a sexual harassment suit, the loss of your job, etc.


So, now all of Fark and indeed the known universe know that you are A) NOT good looking; B) NOT attractive; C) UNATTRACTIVE.

/as if we'd not all long since already deduced as much.
2012-08-23 10:33:25 PM  
1 votes:

PonceAlyosha: This is true. Even my unattractive female friends juggle two or three boys at a time. It seems to me that it may be men who are the naturally monogamous ones.


Hm I'm not sure about naturally. But in a nation of laws and social norms, I think that's correct. Instinct based off the old "spread your seed" early man style of life may move us in one direction, but modern society plays out entirely different. We now live in a world where women are not given away in arranged marriages or won over by the strongest man in the tribe. And they can't be just taken by the man because he's stronger and wants to. A woman's affections have to be won through attraction on her terms, and they all know it. This is why men "have to" by women drinks at the bar, pay for the first few dates, etc. The control has flowed to the female. They know it and love it.

This in turn gives women the option to juggle multiple men. They can get away with it because they know each man is competing against the others. Even if the woman is sleeping with one/more/all of them, they all still need to work to get her to pay attention to them. You see this dynamic with a lot of the very hot college girls who keep almost an entourage of dudes they've friendzoned. An handful of guys they flirt with just enough to keep around who will always shower them with attention, compliments, be willing to do little favors for them, and buy them as many drinks at the bar. And as long as the girl puts her hand on them in the right way or drunkenly kisses them one night, they stay locked in that trap. If the friendzoned guy starts to figure it out and stray away, it just takes one drunken "You are soo special to me _____, I'm sooo glad I have you. You are such a sweet guy" followed by a drunk kiss and a "We really shouldn't...we're such good friends" to keep him thinking that next time he'll finally win her over.
The same goes for women who decide to actually sleep with the "alpha males" of her group. They guys want sex and pretty much don't care that she's hooking up with other guys. The girls love the attention and the feeling of being able to cut off sex if she doesn't get her way. And she can do this with multiple guys at any time.

Both men and women enjoy sex. The group with the power and control is the one who enjoys as much sex as they want while the other just deals with it. It used to be men with the control, hence the stereotypical guy with lots of partners. Now it's switched to the woman having the control, and they have ditched monogamy in turn.
2012-08-23 10:32:26 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder if all this empowerment helps explain why middle-aged women suicide rates have spiked up.


/men's rates are higher, but hell, we also have much lower life expectancies but nobody gives a f*** since it's supposed to be all our fault because of bad habits
2012-08-23 10:27:34 PM  
1 votes:

taurusowner: MorePeasPlease: "It was empowering, to have that kind of control," she recalls. "Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down. I really enjoyed it! I had these options to hook up if I wanted them, and no one would judge me for it."


THAT is the heart of the issue. They enjoy the attention, the feeling of being better than the men because they know they are on the pedestal and call the shots. That's all this really comes down to. It's not even really about the sex, or relationships or lack of. College girls figured out that they way they can obtain the most attention and control is by acting like this.


Ahahaha. You sound old. Girl enjoys the privilege that girls have always enjoyed, gets a rush out of it, goes on with life. Guys vie for her attention, get a rush out of it, go on with life. Circle of life, man, circle of life.
2012-08-23 10:20:29 PM  
1 votes:
Just cause she's fugly, don't mean she's not a good f*ck!
2012-08-23 10:16:45 PM  
1 votes:

Old Smokie: I wonder if the college guys these gals are farking feel as if they are empowering the women?


No, they are taking advantaqge of an easy quick f, because that's all she's good for.
2012-08-23 10:16:18 PM  
1 votes:
What?

I mean, nothing wrong with hookups, been there, but frankly it gets old pretty fast when you start edging past 20 it tends to start getting old. Coincidentally, that's also the point where you stop caring about being empowered and start preferring to not be alone.
2012-08-23 10:01:25 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2012-08-23 10:00:45 PM  
1 votes:
One sorority girl, a junior with a beautiful tan, long dark hair, and a great figure, whom I'll call Tali, told me that freshman year she, like many of her peers, was high on her first taste of the hookup culture and didn't want a boyfriend. "It was empowering, to have that kind of control," she recalls. "Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down. I really enjoyed it! I had these options to hook up if I wanted them, and no one would judge me for it." But then, sometime during sophomore year, her feelings changed. She got tired of relationships that just faded away, "no end, no beginning." Like many of the other college women I talked with, Tali and her friends seemed much more sexually experienced and knowing than my friends at college. They were as blasé about blow jobs and anal sex as the one girl I remember from my junior year whom we all considered destined for a tragic early marriage or an asylum. But they were also more innocent. When I asked Tali what she really wanted, she didn't say anything about commitment or marriage or a return to a more chivalrous age. "Some guy to ask me out on a date to the frozen-yogurt place," she said. That's it. A $3 date.

social.bioware.com
2012-08-23 09:59:15 PM  
1 votes:
And I still won't get laid.
Ehh
2012-08-23 09:52:25 PM  
1 votes:
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
--Dorothy Parker, who died in 1967
2012-08-23 09:16:12 PM  
1 votes:

Mugato: And if she was drunk too, you could have been brought up on rape charges


I heard from a congressperson on the Committee on Science, Space and Technology that you don't even need protection if it falls under this type of intercourse
2012-08-23 08:18:17 PM  
1 votes:
Yay sluts?
2012-08-23 08:08:23 PM  
1 votes:
So there was a time where there wasn't a "college hookup culture"? And now the women are somehow victims of it? Guys in college...it sucks to be you.
 
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