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(Salt Lake Tribune)   Why doesn't Mitt Romney want to release his tax returns? Because that's a Mormon church secret, and he isn't about to let you in on it   (sltrib.com) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, Mormon Church, Jason Chaffetz, Utah Republican, Mormons  
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3242 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Aug 2012 at 1:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-23 12:00:17 PM  
roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-08-23 12:06:48 PM  
TFA: It's a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church.

...and to John McCain's 2008 campaign staff....
 
2012-08-23 12:07:14 PM  
I've had the theory for a while that tithing was behind the reason Romney isn't releasing his tax returns.

Personally, I think it's because he wasn't tithing the full 10%.
 
2012-08-23 12:12:16 PM  
If he's really tithing, then we already know what he's giving his church: 10%.

His income is the real issue.
 
2012-08-23 12:15:51 PM  
"There needs to be a certain degree of privacy," Chaffetz says. "Who he gives money to personally should be his business."

*blink*

You have got to be shiatting me.

That's his latest rationale for not releasing his tax returns?

Either he gave them less than 10% which is a very serious no-no in that church affecting your standing in major ways or he gave them a ridiculous amount in very complicated ways through his charity and in stock and stock option sales from various Bain concerns etc that would seem down right shady when you try to explain them to Joe Sixpack and Jane of Suburbia.

Just guesses.
 
2012-08-23 12:16:05 PM  

UberDave: TFA: It's a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church.

...and to John McCain's 2008 campaign staff....


Let's just pretend that Mitt's dad agreed with that.
 
2012-08-23 12:17:36 PM  
www.ldschurchtemples.com

www.moroni10.com

Charity.
 
2012-08-23 12:19:09 PM  
I'm still betting he took the 2009 amnesty.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-23 12:24:36 PM  
Yes, that explains why it isn't a problem to release the 2010 and 2011 returns, but the one from the year of the Swiss Account amnesty is totally private.

I think your clever plan has a flaw.
 
2012-08-23 12:30:59 PM  
When people tithe, they do so from their hearts. That's none of anyone else's business. Unless you're a public corporation, there's no reason you should have to inadvertently disclose how much you have given to an organization, especially your church. People will look at donation amounts and make accusations of it being too much or too little. You can't put a price on tithing though. Tithing isn't about how much you give, but why you give it. That's something only Romney and his wife can know. Releasing tax information which would disclose his church donations would invade the privacy that everyone, you and I, deserve.
 
2012-08-23 12:31:35 PM  
Listen Mittens, if you don't want to reveal how much you gave the Angel Moroni's Magic Underwear Brigade, there's a simple way to keep that completely between you and Invisible Sky Wizard, Inc. (Salt Lake City Division), with none of us outsiders knowing anything about it: Just donate whatever amount you want, and don't farking claim it as a tax deduction. Once you do claim it as a tax deduction, however, it's no longer solely between you and the church, because ever dollar you take as a deduction deprives U.S. Treasury of money that can otherwise be used to support the defense and infrastructure of our country, forcing other taxpayers to make up the shortfall through additional taxes or debt.

In other words, your tax returns don't have to show how much you gave in donations to your cult (or to any other charity). All your tax return shows is how much of your donations you decided you don't want to have to pay taxes on. That's your choice.

I'll bet the bigger problem for Mittens is that he shorted the Mormons on his tithing requirement and failed to pay them less than the required minimum of 10% of his income in some years, which he doesn't want anybody to know about because it would mean that he would no longer be a member of the church in good standing and would not be welcome at a Temple.
 
2012-08-23 12:34:48 PM  
Funny thing how George Romney didn't have these tithing secrecy objections to releasing his 10 years of tax returns... good for the goose and all...
 
2012-08-23 12:35:39 PM  
Fine. Baptize me, and my dead ancestors for 3 generations. Then show the returns.
 
2012-08-23 12:56:47 PM  

ignite ice: When people tithe, they do so from their hearts. That's none of anyone else's business. Unless you're a public corporation, there's no reason you should have to inadvertently disclose how much you have given to an organization, especially your church. People will look at donation amounts and make accusations of it being too much or too little. You can't put a price on tithing though. Tithing isn't about how much you give, but why you give it. That's something only Romney and his wife can know. Releasing tax information which would disclose his church donations would invade the privacy that everyone, you and I, deserve.


PISS OFF!

My tax returns are checked every time I undergo a security clearance background investigation, in addition to drug tests; credit checks; criminal record checks; references, neighbors, and family interviewed; up to lie detector questioning for top secret clearances.

Romney's running for the office of US President. He's volunteered to give up his farkin' privacy, just like I did.

And thanks, bloobeary! I didn't think of the 2009 amnesty for hiding money in Swiss bank accounts. Could that really be one of the skeletons in his closet?
 
2012-08-23 12:59:21 PM  

Blues_X: [www.ldschurchtemples.com image 850x637]
[www.moroni10.com image 461x409]
Charity.


That's just window dressing. The church has financial holdings estimated (by Bloomberg, as I recall) at around $40 billion, much of it in bonds, commercial paper, cash, and other liquid assets. They're famously secretive about their holdings and it's tough to find out about them, but their fiancial structure looks something like this:

images.businessweek.com

Few people have heard of some of these entities--and Googling them won't turn up a lot of info because they're privately-held and don't release much financial info--but some of them are big players. Ensign Peak Advisors, for example, is shown on that chart, and most people outside the financial sector haven't heard of them, but people who do work in the capital markets all know who they are: they're essentially a hedge fund, and one of the biggest investors of certain categories of capital markets transactions (including catastrophe bonds and other insurance-linked securities), with something like $3 billion or $4 billion in assets. And they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Mormon Church, set up to invest and make money off of the church's extra cash. The church also owns a profitable life insurance company, built a wholly-owned $3 billion shopping center a few years back, and has tens of billions of other financial holdings.

There was an interesting article in Business Week a couple of years ago that outlined the church's financial holdings. It's worth reading.
 
2012-08-23 01:03:31 PM  

Elzar: Funny thing how George Romney didn't have these tithing secrecy objections to releasing his 10 years of tax returns... good for the goose and all...


And his wife said "we also give 10% to charity"

10%

Tithing

A tithe is a one-tenth part of something.

Secret my arse, he's just finally thought of an excuse to not show his taxes that could use a "religious freedom" angle.
 
2012-08-23 01:03:55 PM  

AirForceVet: And thanks, bloobeary! I didn't think of the 2009 amnesty for hiding money in Swiss bank accounts. Could that really be one of the skeletons in his closet?


Happy to oblige. Considering that such accounts have been proven to exist, it wouldn't be that big a shock to discover that prior to 2009, Romney was using them as a tax dodge.
 
2012-08-23 01:20:09 PM  
Damn, so he's even hiding cash from his church?

Isn't Reid a Mormon? Maybe some internal church politics playing out here?
 
2012-08-23 01:21:23 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: If he's really tithing, then we already know what he's giving his church: 10%.

His income is the real issue.


You're not obligated to halt at 10% - you can give more - plus there are also donations to the Missionary Fund, The Young Men and Young Women's Societies, The Priesthood.

Their are many places in the Mormon religion where one can donate.
 
2012-08-23 01:21:36 PM  

Cyberluddite: Listen Mittens, if you don't want to reveal how much you gave the Angel Moroni's Magic Underwear Brigade, there's a simple way to keep that completely between you and Invisible Sky Wizard, Inc. (Salt Lake City Division), with none of us outsiders knowing anything about it: Just donate whatever amount you want, and don't farking claim it as a tax deduction. Once you do claim it as a tax deduction, however, it's no longer solely between you and the church, because ever dollar you take as a deduction deprives U.S. Treasury of money that can otherwise be used to support the defense and infrastructure of our country, forcing other taxpayers to make up the shortfall through additional taxes or debt.

In other words, your tax returns don't have to show how much you gave in donations to your cult (or to any other charity). All your tax return shows is how much of your donations you decided you don't want to have to pay taxes on. That's your choice.

I'll bet the bigger problem for Mittens is that he shorted the Mormons on his tithing requirement and failed to pay them less than the required minimum of 10% of his income in some years, which he doesn't want anybody to know about because it would mean that he would no longer be a member of the church in good standing and would not be welcome at a Temple.


This.
 
2012-08-23 01:21:38 PM  
8020.photos.jpgmag.com
This thing isn't working!!!!
 
2012-08-23 01:22:04 PM  

AirForceVet: ignite ice: When people tithe, they do so from their hearts. That's none of anyone else's business. Unless you're a public corporation, there's no reason you should have to inadvertently disclose how much you have given to an organization, especially your church. People will look at donation amounts and make accusations of it being too much or too little. You can't put a price on tithing though. Tithing isn't about how much you give, but why you give it. That's something only Romney and his wife can know. Releasing tax information which would disclose his church donations would invade the privacy that everyone, you and I, deserve.

PISS OFF!

My tax returns are checked every time I undergo a security clearance background investigation, in addition to drug tests; credit checks; criminal record checks; references, neighbors, and family interviewed; up to lie detector questioning for top secret clearances.

Romney's running for the office of US President. He's volunteered to give up his farkin' privacy, just like I did.

And thanks, bloobeary! I didn't think of the 2009 amnesty for hiding money in Swiss bank accounts. Could that really be one of the skeletons in his closet?


Damn straight. "Us people" have to submit to extensive background checks to pass into jobs and security clearances. So should Romney.

I like how this issue is still around. I love it.
 
2012-08-23 01:22:40 PM  
It's secret now? Before he was saying how much he has given to "charity". Oh I see, he means he hasn't actually been tithing enough like he supposed to and he doesn't want to be excommunicated for being a liar.

I still think it's the Tax Amnesty. Because he's been running for resident for like 5 years now. His 2009 return should be squeaky clean unless he was forced into the tax amnesty.
 
2012-08-23 01:23:10 PM  
Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but does the Mormon Church pay property tax on all their real estate holdings? I know that churches are tax-exempt, but I've never been clear on what aspect of the church is tax-exempt; property or money given to the church from parishioners.
 
2012-08-23 01:23:39 PM  

trotsky: Damn straight. "Us people" have to submit to extensive background checks to pass into jobs and security clearances. So should Romney.


shiat I had to show my tax returns to buy a house. I get a full credit check when I get a job.
 
2012-08-23 01:26:44 PM  
You know, I kinda agree with him on this. Release them with blanked out numbers in the religious contributions lines.
 
2012-08-23 01:27:02 PM  
So revealing how much he gave in 2010 wasn't a problem, his wife saying that they gave 10% every year wasn't a problem, but how much he donated is the real problem? Are you sure it isn't one of the several other reasons you've used to try and evade the issue of your tax returns?

Honestly it would be much smarter for Romney to just refuse to talk about the issue any more. At least he wouldn't keep throwing the issue back into the forefront of the news every time he thinks up a new excuse. Of course it's becoming clear that Romney just isn't very smart.
 
2012-08-23 01:28:25 PM  
He probably saw the 10% number and said "Yeah, right, that is like 4 million. Billy don't the street only makes 80 grand. 8 grand tithe. Pfffffft. I will give one million. That is fair...it is a smaller percentage but still more money. Moroni will understand."
 
2012-08-23 01:29:01 PM  
don't = down

/failed again
 
2012-08-23 01:29:06 PM  

Corvus: he hasn't actually been tithing enough like he supposed to and he doesn't want to be excommunicated for being a liar.

I still think it's the Tax Amnesty.


I'm betting that it's both of these and more
 
2012-08-23 01:29:13 PM  
FTFA: "Our church doesn't publish how much people have given," Romney tells Parade magazine in an edition due out Sunday. "This is done entirely privately. One of the downsides of releasing one's financial information is that this is now all public, but we had never intended our contributions to be known. It's a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church and our accountant and the IRS and John McCain."

FTFY, Mitt.
 
2012-08-23 01:33:01 PM  
He's full of it. The tithing and how much he gives seems to be known. The exact amount? No. But it's 10% of ( x ) amount. For the year he released he gave 4m to 40m earned, or ten percent. So what could be happening in those other years that changes the bottom line fact? He made 200m and tithed 20m? Not shocking, it's exponential math. Did he not pay his full amount? Not shocking to the public as it is to the church. So what's in the Mitt? This shady lying douche-b. He must have realized that October 15th is not some theoretical non event and will arrive, and that people don't forget anymore about statements made. He's already looking to scramble out of that date.
 
2012-08-23 01:33:15 PM  

Blues_X: [www.ldschurchtemples.com image 850x637]

[www.moroni10.com image 461x409]

Charity.


Why do I picture a bunch of castrated virgins sitting around those rooms in white suits drinking milk and singing the lyrics to the Oscar Meyer Weener commercials?
 
2012-08-23 01:38:03 PM  
seems like your father had not problem with it.

If you want to keep your personal financial information private...DON'T RUN FOR PRESIDENT
 
2012-08-23 01:38:37 PM  

ignite ice: When people tithe, they do so from their hearts. That's none of anyone else's business. Unless you're a public corporation, there's no reason you should have to inadvertently disclose how much you have given to an organization, especially your church. People will look at donation amounts and make accusations of it being too much or too little. You can't put a price on tithing though. Tithing isn't about how much you give, but why you give it. That's something only Romney and his wife can know. Releasing tax information which would disclose his church donations would invade the privacy that everyone, you and I, deserve.


So this will be the dodge that they use from here on out? "I don't have to prove that to you, it's my religious freddoms!"

As other posters have mentioned, NO. Just, no. This guy is applying for the president of the US and is asking for softer handling than people get when applying for jobs flipping burgers or making copies? It's absurd. You're absurd for suggestion it.
 
2012-08-23 01:38:52 PM  
So, God wants voters to be uninformed about their candidates? Sounds a little more Old Testament-ish than Jesus-y.
 
2012-08-23 01:39:13 PM  
Excuses... excuses... You want to run for the highest public office in the land? Expect to have to make your life a bit more public than you would probably prefer.

/doesn't believe Romney's excuse...
 
2012-08-23 01:39:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: If he's really tithing, then we already know what he's giving his church: 10%.

His income is the real issue.


I think he's been giving them 10% of what he claims is his income based on what he claims his net worth is ($22 million/year and $250 million). I think he's worth a hell of a lot more than that, that his income is far greater, and that he's been lying to the church and everyone else.


/don't think he's done anything illegal, just a number of things which are immoral.
 
2012-08-23 01:42:09 PM  
Let's keep it up, people! He needs to release them... because he would get security clearance as well.

Don't let this issue go!

I trust him as far as I can throw him
\bad back
 
2012-08-23 01:42:49 PM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-23 01:44:13 PM  
He doesn't want them to find out he donated his complementary set of "The Compleat Osmonds" on 8-Track.
 
2012-08-23 01:45:05 PM  
Given the extremely specific and carefully-worded manner in which Romney claimed never to have paid less than a 13% tax rate over the past ten years, I suspect that figure includes all taxes, state, local and federal, capital gains, sales and property. His federal tax burden probably came out closer to zero than to 13%. Of course, I could just be imagining things. If only there were some way for Mitt to put all these suspicions to rest...
 
2012-08-23 01:46:59 PM  

Cyberluddite: I'll bet the bigger problem for Mittens is that he shorted the Mormons on his tithing requirement and failed to pay them less than the required minimum of 10% of his income in some years, which he doesn't want anybody to know about because it would mean that he would no longer be a member of the church in good standing and would not be welcome at a Temple.


I think this might be part of the issue. The other week he seemed to admit as much when he said that he paid 13.7% in 2010 and proceeded to say that once you add up his church donation that number is above twenty percent. That might mean that his tithing is less than 10% and more like 7-8%.

I still think the main issue is that he probably participated in the 2009 tax amnesty which would be very damaging politically.
 
2012-08-23 01:47:42 PM  

ignite ice: When people tithe, they do so from their hearts. That's none of anyone else's business. Unless you're a public corporation, there's no reason you should have to inadvertently disclose how much you have given to an organization, especially your church. People will look at donation amounts and make accusations of it being too much or too little. You can't put a price on tithing though. Tithing isn't about how much you give, but why you give it. That's something only Romney and his wife can know. Releasing tax information which would disclose his church donations would invade the privacy that everyone, you and I, deserve.


That situation is fine unless he wants to be my elected official. See, as a voter, his tax payments and obligations are every bit as important as a publicly traded company's are to a stockholder. He doesn't have to disclose, but there is no way a large number of swing voters are going to vote for him unless he is transparent.
 
2012-08-23 01:48:22 PM  
No one, but no one is going to buy this BULLSH*T.

But by all means, Mittens, KEEP TALKING ABOUT YOUR TAX RETURNS.
 
2012-08-23 01:49:18 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: He doesn't want them to find out he donated his complementary set of "The Compleat Osmonds" on 8-Track.


img2-2.timeinc.net

In his defense, it was a very nice smoking jacket.
 
2012-08-23 01:49:53 PM  
I am still hoping to hear that he is a polygamist and funding another family or two.
 
2012-08-23 01:50:52 PM  
So he may have been sheltering income in offshore accounts to hide it from God? Release the Avenging Angels!
 
2012-08-23 01:53:55 PM  

ignite ice: You can't put a price on tithing though.


Yes, actually, you can put a price on it. It's 10% of what you have or made. The word means "one-tenth."
 
2012-08-23 01:55:03 PM  

ignite ice: You can't put a price on tithing though.


Yes you can. A very specific price, actually. That's why it's called a "tithe."
 
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