If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Ars Technica)   War drivers celebrate German proposal to give government the ability to take over your wireless network in emergencies. What could go wrong?   (arstechnica.com) divider line 29
    More: Asinine, wireless networks, Bruce Schneier, security protocol, cellular network, Germans, local university, research papers, proposal  
•       •       •

1253 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Aug 2012 at 11:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-08-23 10:19:19 AM
There's no way you can make this work. Any signal key publicly available enough to be used by every police, sheriff, or emergency management person in the nation is either going to get leaked fairly quickly or otherwise made available to outside attack; possibly even brute-forced on a hacker's own router.

Then what? Besides the security issues, with the RIAA/etc. suing people who merely own the internet service where things are downloaded, no one or business is going to buy a router that simply anyone can hop on to. They can't handle the liability and potential security holes.

This is one of those "things that sound like a good idea, but aren't."
 
2012-08-23 10:41:20 AM
Well, if it's like the German wifi I'm on now, the police will be able to connect with their iPhones but not their MacBooks or iPads, for some inexplicable reason.
 
2012-08-23 11:42:53 AM
"The emergency switch is meant to disable the security protocols and allow public access to the wireless router," says the team led by PhD student Kamill Panitzek of Technische Universität Darmstadt in Germany (he's also a research associate at the university's Telecooperation Lab).

When normal people have ideas this stupid, it's typically followed by an additional thought to the effect of, "No, wait... that's farking stupid."

Not this guy, though.
 
2012-08-23 11:45:46 AM
You know who would approve of this wonderful German news?
 
2012-08-23 11:58:22 AM

Oldiron_79: You know who would approve of this wonderful German news?


Kaiser Wilhelm?
 
2012-08-23 12:01:55 PM
Okay, so:

1. You stick something in the router's firmware about this. 5 minutes later a reflash crack will hit the web and everyone will reflash their router. Also the government has to push security updates for this every time the hackers find the take over protocol.

2. You hardwire the router so you can't flash it out. Manufacturers now hate you because they need a special "Germany only" hardware config. Also once it is compromised the routers have to be replaced . Meanwhile someone starts selling cheap little routers made with off the shelf parts that route at a software level and don't have any of the German government requirements.

Or.....

3. Just set up standards for all your 3G/LTE/whatever protocol towers you run that in an emergency they have: A) massive redundancy in terms of bandwidth (let them daisy chain if their landline connection is broken) B) they have a backup power supply. Then all your first responders get Android or iOS devices that can connect to any tower at any time.

All we (as in any country moving further from landlines) really need to do is take all rules and regulations for how hardened the wired phone system had to be and apply that to the broadband towers.
 
2012-08-23 12:03:55 PM
Maybe I'm missing something... But what kind of emergency would this solve?
 
2012-08-23 12:22:34 PM
I'm ok with this. I mean emergencies are important. Wait, who gets to decide when it's an emergency? Oh.

/hitler
 
2012-08-23 12:29:29 PM
This is a stupid idea.

First, I would not think of buying a router that supported this. Second, if I found that my router had been taken over, I can simply unplug it, kicking off anybody currently using it.

Why not have 3G/LTE providers give devices used by first responders higher priority on their network?
 
2012-08-23 12:44:59 PM
German idea? Pretty sure Obama proposed this several times already.
 
2012-08-23 12:45:56 PM
I have 100% trust in governments. I have no problem with this.

/I loved it. It was better than Cats. I want to see it again and again.
 
2012-08-23 12:51:36 PM
Backdoor security?

i125.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-23 01:07:27 PM

way south: Maybe I'm missing something... But what kind of emergency would this solve?


Exactly. The firemen that saved my house were more than capable of succeeding without the use of our router.
 
2012-08-23 01:34:18 PM
Don't mention the war...drivers!
 
2012-08-23 01:39:47 PM

way south: Maybe I'm missing something... But what kind of emergency would this solve?


Rioting?
 
2012-08-23 01:52:01 PM
Oh hey, I already have this on my router near the GOP convention hall. I've man in the middled it and there sure is a lot of traffic to gay male porn sites. Gay Male Porn is an emergency DAMMIT!.

/Sarcasm.
//Maybe.
///Free admittance to gay bath houses for Republican convention attendees(not sarcasm).
////Users with a combination router/modem from their ISP will love this new system, as their units already comes with backdoors for firmware updates or something.
 
2012-08-23 01:56:04 PM
I haven't quite figured out how yet, but I'm sure this is all Obama's idea.
 
2012-08-23 01:57:42 PM

Sim Tree: Any signal key publicly available enough to be used by every police, sheriff, or emergency management person in the nation is either going to get leaked fairly quickly or otherwise made available to outside attack; possibly even brute-forced on a hacker's own router.


Technically you could make it a HUGE key and have it use public key authentication. Give every police a hardware key that is encoded at the factory. It would still get leaked eventually.
 
2012-08-23 02:16:40 PM
What type of emergency would necessitate taking over my wireless network?
 
2012-08-23 02:19:52 PM

Honest Bender: What type of emergency would necessitate taking over my wireless network?


Looting?
 
2012-08-23 02:33:23 PM

Capt. Sparkles: I haven't quite figured out how yet, but I'm sure this is all Obama's idea.


Obama wanted a master off switch for the internet, so if we had a rebellion like Egypt or Syria he could stop leaks of citizen slaughter to the rest of the world.
 
2012-08-23 03:20:25 PM

StoPPeRmobile: way south: Maybe I'm missing something... But what kind of emergency would this solve?

Rioting?


That's something to shut the internet down for, but to open it up?
I can see why you'd want to increase public access to the internet, and in an emergency... but it just seems more wise to buy and install specific equipment which you can use for public access at all times rather than to tinker with everyone's routers.

/I'm thinking a transmitter that fits on a telephone pole and doles out 56k to anonymous accounts.
/Enough to access the internet, not enough to be abused.
 
2012-08-23 04:01:01 PM

Bullseyed: Capt. Sparkles: I haven't quite figured out how yet, but I'm sure this is all Obama's idea.

Obama wanted a master off switch for the internet, so if we had a rebellion like Egypt or Syria he could stop leaks of citizen slaughter to the rest of the world.


Actually, from this Wired Article
The bill, which has bipartisan support, is being floated by Sen. Susan Collins, the Republican ranking member on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

To be fair, the original version was floated by Joe Lieberman, who's basically an independent at this point.
 
2012-08-23 04:31:57 PM
Or, you know, put a WiFi hotspot in the truck.

Nah, that'd be too easy and wouldn't involve the gov't taking over your shiat.
 
2012-08-23 09:07:59 PM
This would be completely unnecessary if there were some media companies with helicopters, roving reporters, and cars to keep us updated in any emergency.
 
2012-08-24 02:21:06 AM

StoPPeRmobile: way south: Maybe I'm missing something... But what kind of emergency would this solve?

Rioting?


If people are rioting because there's no wifi and they really want to fark, I can see that being the case.
 
2012-08-24 11:56:55 AM

papazit: Bullseyed: Capt. Sparkles: I haven't quite figured out how yet, but I'm sure this is all Obama's idea.

Obama wanted a master off switch for the internet, so if we had a rebellion like Egypt or Syria he could stop leaks of citizen slaughter to the rest of the world.

Actually, from this Wired Article
The bill, which has bipartisan support, is being floated by Sen. Susan Collins, the Republican ranking member on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

To be fair, the original version was floated by Joe Lieberman, who's basically an independent at this point.


Yeah it had bipartisan support, but the idea came from Obama.

Most of the Senate and House have no freaking idea how this stuff works, so when someone like Obama says "oh hey we should make an off switch for the internet" the pile on because it "sounds like a good idea" when you have no understanding of the implementation.
 
2012-08-24 11:59:41 AM

Old Smokie: Or, you know, put a WiFi hotspot in the truck.

Nah, that'd be too easy and wouldn't involve the gov't taking over your shiat.


I got more of an impression of like when there is an emergency and you can't make phone calls because everyone is making them all at once. A hotspot in the truck would be hooked up to a 4G uplink, and wouldn't do any good if everyone was trying to use 4G all at once. Try downloading a HD movie at a football game for example.

The way they got around that for phones is by using radio networks and having dedicated services for phone use for cops/firemen/whatever during emergencies. They should really set up a similar thing for 4G now, but it would be really expensive.
 
2012-08-25 08:05:01 PM
I have an off switch, it is on the side of my house, all power stops in the O F F position...
 
Displayed 29 of 29 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report