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(Payvand News)   Question for Americans: If sometime during the next 10 weeks Israel attacked Iran but Obama decided not to get America involved, would that encourage you to vote Obama or Romney?   (payvand.com) divider line 117
    More: Interesting, President Obama, United States, Iran, Israelis, Americans, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, Yedioth Ahronoth, Ehud Barak  
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936 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Aug 2012 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-08-23 05:51:37 AM
That is quite a hypothetical. An easier question to answer would be who do you trust more in the use of military power?

/Obama wins that hands down
 
2012-08-23 06:07:17 AM
Obama.
 
2012-08-23 06:10:54 AM
This issue of Iran may play heavily in the election. The economy is still gonna be front and center, but this might be the second biggest thing.
 
2012-08-23 06:27:11 AM
I could never respect a President that hasn't trained his dog to sit and heel.
 
2012-08-23 08:17:29 AM
obama... are you kidding?
 
2012-08-23 08:22:53 AM
I will vote for anyone who tells Israel to go fark itself.
 
2012-08-23 08:36:18 AM
If Obama came to my house and kicked my dog...I'd still vote for him. If Obama left an upper decker after he kicked my dog... I'd still vote for him. If he gave me a prison tat of a swastika in my sleep I'd still vote for Obama.
 
2012-08-23 08:37:56 AM
Obama. But this is coming from a person who doesn't like the U.S.' support of Israel in the first place.
 
2012-08-23 08:39:20 AM
Obama can sleep with my wife AND my mother, at the same time, and I'd still vote for him over Mitt.
 
2012-08-23 08:48:20 AM

Marcus Aurelius: I could never respect a President that hasn't trained his dog to sit and heel.


A syllogism for you history folks:

United States: Israel :: Pre-WWI Russia: Pre-WWI Serbia
 
2012-08-23 08:59:46 AM
Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.
 
2012-08-23 09:04:53 AM

Marcus Aurelius: I could never respect a President that hasn't trained his dog to sit and heel.


Netanyahu '12
 
2012-08-23 09:12:53 AM
Obama, hands down. Israel are big boys. They don't need our troops dying in their war, and they don't need our money to fight it either.
 
2012-08-23 09:26:22 AM
"If the cafeteria serves tater tots today, will that make you more likely to vote for Obama or Romney?"

Equally valid question.
 
2012-08-23 09:35:28 AM
What I got from TFA: Netanyahu wants to be best buds with Romney.
 
2012-08-23 09:46:45 AM
if Israel attacks Iran then Israel can deal with the situation all by themselves.
 
2012-08-23 09:55:49 AM
If nonintervention is your thing, then Gary Johnson is the pick.
 
2012-08-23 09:58:32 AM

Bladel: Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of fighting Israel's battles for them, but I'll agree with this. If Iran is monumentally stupid enough to be the aggressor, I'd be OK with the US swatting them down.

If Israel attacks Iran, I can only wish we would have the balls to tell them they're on their own.
 
2012-08-23 10:02:49 AM
There is nothing that would convince me to vote for Romney in this Universe.

That goes back a ways. When he was involved with the UMaine system, before he headed to Utah. His stint as Governor in Mass, only cemented that. His statements and his inability to cohere anything that remotely looks like consistent policy only confirms my bias. His choice of Ryan as his running mate only confirms my decision. Romney will never get my vote, because of his record going back that far. He is not anything that I want near office. I don't trust the man, I don't trust his decision making process, I don't trust his motives, I don't trust his backers, because the only thing that they have any allegiance to is the money that they have in the bank, and screw shareholders, screw taxpayers, screw communities, screw the country, that is all that he's going to serve.

No thank you. We cannot afford a Romney Presidency on any level, nor can our grandkids...
 
2012-08-23 10:04:49 AM

Bladel: Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.


actually, pretty much this.
 
2012-08-23 10:08:16 AM
If Iran attacks Israel and doesn't completely cripple their military capabilities, Obama's only move should be to raise a hand and say, "Hold on. This is gonna be funny."
 
2012-08-23 10:09:44 AM
I didn't like the idea of pre-emptive war under Bush, what makes you think I would like it any better now?

This whole hypothetical is stupid anyway. Not gonna happen.
 
2012-08-23 10:10:40 AM

SilentStrider: Obama, hands down. Israel are big boys. They don't need our troops dying in their war, and they don't need our money to fight it either.


This.
 
2012-08-23 10:11:19 AM
I don't think we'd see quite so many "Liberate Iran" lawn signs, that's for sure.
 
2012-08-23 10:11:25 AM
RON PAUL!

*ducks, runs*

/obvious
 
2012-08-23 10:11:53 AM
Obama. On the flip side, if Obama DID get us involved, I would seriously consider staying home or voting third party.

/get us involved in an unnecessary aggressive war, you lose my vote, regardless of party
 
2012-08-23 10:11:54 AM

Bloody William: If Iran attacks Israel and doesn't completely cripple their military capabilities, Obama's only move should be to raise a hand and say, "Hold on. This is gonna be funny."


Tehran would be a smoking hole in the ground if Iran attacks Israel.

capitolcommentary.com
 
2012-08-23 10:11:55 AM

FlashHarry: Bladel: Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.

 
2012-08-23 10:12:04 AM
I would vote for the man who, during his first term, expertly handled every major foreign policy problem that came his way, excelling especially with regards to the middle east.
 
2012-08-23 10:12:40 AM
Obama.

Because I'm sick and tired of playing Daddy to the world. If they want to slug it out let them. It will thin out all the rowdy ones are just itching for a fight.
 
2012-08-23 10:14:00 AM

Diogenes: "If the cafeteria serves tater tots today, will that make you more likely to vote for Obama or Romney?"

Equally valid question.


Hey, hey Di... gimme some of your tots.
 
2012-08-23 10:15:52 AM
What if Israel attacks Kenya?

Oh, snap!
 
2012-08-23 10:16:00 AM
Obama. And, hopefully that would send a message to the Israeli people. War isn't anyone's default answer anymore, so swing your next election away from the hawks.

Especially when so many younger Iranians actually like western civilization. Their revolution will come in time, and it will be permanent.
 
2012-08-23 10:16:18 AM
I'm buying popcorn futures.
 
2012-08-23 10:17:14 AM
Obama.

They didn't even play with the last two wars we got them.
 
2012-08-23 10:19:25 AM
"Why do you ask?"

"Oh, no reason."
 
2012-08-23 10:20:07 AM
Obama
America needs to learn what /b/ and Anonymous learned long ago
Not your personal army
 
2012-08-23 10:23:23 AM
Let's see - a warmonger who would use privatized military to further loot the US coffers but is too much of a pussy to make the tough calls, or a less-inclined warmonger who reduced the military presence, even if it did continue to loot the US coffers, and who has shown the decisiveness to take out the top guys.

I'll take "Lesser of Two Evils" for $1000, Alex.

/meaning Obama
 
2012-08-23 10:23:28 AM

Bontesla: Obama.

 
2012-08-23 10:23:46 AM
Obama.

/If Iran did attack Israel, it would be nuked by Israel so fast. Period.
 
2012-08-23 10:23:47 AM
I really do not believe that the US has any reason to support Israel.
I also believe that Mr. Obama is a relatively intelligent and sane person. I do not believe that about anyone who chooses to label him or herself a republican.
 
2012-08-23 10:27:02 AM
t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-23 10:27:27 AM
Obama, though he's my pick for this election regardless. We don't need to get involved in something else right now, we've got too much going on as it is.

When Mitt Romney decides to poke a stick at an already delicate situation by essentially telling Palestinians that their lack of economic growth and wealth is because their culture sucks, that is the mark of a man who has no f*cking clue how to deal with people. And while sure, it's nice to have someone with business background willing to help fix the economy, a good part of the job of the president is knowing how to listen and work with other world leaders without offending them.
 
2012-08-23 10:28:14 AM
Obama.

He hasn't shown he's waiting for Israel to trigger the end times, while Romney has had to state that he is not the White Horseman of the LDS.
 
2012-08-23 10:28:19 AM
Obama.

fark Bibi, fark the Israeli right wing.
 
2012-08-23 10:29:03 AM
Congress can always declare war.......Obama can support the declaration of war or get impeached.

I'd wager that supporting Israel is one of those areas that both sides of the aisle can agree upon, even if it means eating some of their own on the way to war.
 
2012-08-23 10:29:23 AM
If the adventurous Bush, Jr. did not attack Iran, why would the democrat and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Obama?

An interesting question, for sure. But first. Why the lower case on Democrat? Is the peace prize thingy being brought up just to be snarky?

Now, why didn't Bush attack Iran? And North Korea? And Syria? And Canada.

I don't think W had the nads, frankly.
 
2012-08-23 10:30:17 AM
obama, even more. we need to be involved in LESS wars, not more. any candidate who could credibly deliver less war would rise in my estimation.
 
2012-08-23 10:34:03 AM

LarryDan43: Diogenes: "If the cafeteria serves tater tots today, will that make you more likely to vote for Obama or Romney?"

Equally valid question.

Hey, hey Di... gimme some of your tots.


Not for all the secret nuclear weapons capability in Israel.
 
2012-08-23 10:36:04 AM
Obama, because I'm a US citizen, not an Israeli.
 
2012-08-23 10:36:25 AM

cman: This issue of Iran may play heavily in the election. The economy is still gonna be front and center, but this might be the second biggest thing.


I really wish this was true, but so far, I've been disappointed in how it's been ignored. Iran is not just a foreign policy question, a question of whether we should commit troops or support Israel or what not. But it is an economic issue as well. Can we afford to have gas go to $6/gal? Can we afford another $1T. to finance a war?

AFAIAC, until Iran actually shows it has the capability to produce one nuke, and I mean I want to see them do an actual nuke test, because untested nukes are about as dangerous as no nukes at all, I think the whole issue of military intervention should be off the table.
 
2012-08-23 10:36:47 AM
It doesn't matter. If there's a war at all the economy is going to be a smoking hole in the ground by Christmas, even if Iran doesn't actually start sinking shiat in the Strait. The possibility that they might would be enough to send gas prices past where you can afford your 45 minute commute.

I wouldn't want to be Netanyahu right now. I think he'll order the attack just because to not do so would make him look like such a fool that his political career would end immediately.
 
2012-08-23 10:39:17 AM
cdnlive.albawaba.com

look how farkin' handsome this guy is, come on
 
2012-08-23 10:39:36 AM
Right, voting for the Democrat as the anti-war candidate. Like how we gave Congress to the Democrats in 2006 for the express purpose of ending the war in Iraq and they cut off funding right away.


m2313
Obama
America


???
 
2012-08-23 10:42:11 AM

Cletus C.: If the adventurous Bush, Jr. did not attack Iran, why would the democrat and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Obama?

An interesting question, for sure. But first. Why the lower case on Democrat? Is the peace prize thingy being brought up just to be snarky?

Now, why didn't Bush attack Iran? And North Korea? And Syria? And Canada.

I don't think W had the nads, frankly.


I disagree. W. had the nads. He just did not have the military to do so. We were so bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq, we had no major military options left. I have little doubt that if Iraq had been the cakewalk we were promised, that Bush would have gotten us involved in another war elsewhere, for good or ill, I can't guess. The Iraqi quagmire tied his hands.
 
2012-08-23 10:42:50 AM
Obama. It'd be Obama anyway, but seriously, fark Israel. They're supposedly big boys, they can fight their own battles and all that. I'd like to stop giving them piles of money too, but I suspect that's not going to happen anytime soon.
 
2012-08-23 10:43:31 AM
I think that even Capt Kirk would have to concede that this is a no win scenario for Obama.
 
2012-08-23 10:43:41 AM

RanDomino: ???


In the context of the question
I'm not voting for either one.
Don't worry : P
 
2012-08-23 10:45:25 AM
Obama, no contest. I can think of a well manages war by the GOP in the last 30 or so years save first gulf war. Everything else was a clusterfark.
 
2012-08-23 10:46:13 AM

Giltric: I'd wager that supporting Israel is one of those areas that both sides of the aisle can agree upon, even if it means eating some of their own on the way to war.


I completely support Isreal. But I'm don't support fighting their wars for them.

"Personal Responsibility" applies to countries too. If Israel wants to start a war with Iran, they can do it on their own.
 
2012-08-23 10:48:26 AM

m2313: RanDomino: ???

In the context of the question
I'm not voting for either one.
Don't worry : P


wait... you guys are different people?
 
2012-08-23 10:48:48 AM
What is Isreal attacked Iran and we nuked Isreal in respond. What then???!?!

I mean its only fair right?
 
2012-08-23 10:50:55 AM
If Israel essentially goes to war over a few meaningless words from a figurehead, I would not only expect Obama to not help, but I would also expect someone important - anyone at all - to point out how a warmongering Israel is so laughingly hypocritical until it is clear that any Jewish person that votes right of center in Israel again just hates themselves and their own people and history.
 
2012-08-23 10:51:59 AM
If obama told the warmongers in Israel to fark off then he'd have my vote
 
2012-08-23 10:52:09 AM
Nuke them both. Nip this shiat in the bud.
 
2012-08-23 10:53:36 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Obama.

fark Bibi, fark the Israeli right wing.


Yup.

clkeagle: Obama. And, hopefully that would send a message to the Israeli people. War isn't anyone's default answer anymore, so swing your next election away from the hawks.

Especially when so many younger Iranians actually like western civilization. Their revolution will come in time, and it will be permanent.


Do you know how the youth in Israel feel about Iran? Do you know how the youth feel about the possibility of war with Iran? Actually, do you know that a over half of Israelis of every age don't want war with Iran? It's really just Bibi and his hawkish right wing buddies in government who want this - his people don't - which is why he's had to take the argument international and try and cajole the US into Iraqing the place.

Apparently, everyone serving means everyone has personal investment in sending kids off to war. Israelis, it turns out, are no more eager to send the youth into a battle of questionable merit (as opposed to a defensive war) than anyone else.
 
2012-08-23 11:02:37 AM

Kevin72: Obama.

/If Iran did attack Israel, it would be nuked by Israel so fast. Period.


They are right next to eachother. You think Israel is going to rain fallout over much of the middle east ? Think again. they might if they thought they were outmatched or something but Israel has more than enough non-nuclear weapons to handle just about anyone in their region.

They are the big boys on that block. No one is going to use nuclear weapons. You think Russia is ok with that taking place on their southern border ?

You think China will be ok with losing their OIL ?
 
2012-08-23 11:06:13 AM

kindms: Kevin72: Obama.

/If Iran did attack Israel, it would be nuked by Israel so fast. Period.

They are right next to eachother. You think Israel is going to rain fallout over much of the middle east ? Think again. they might if they thought they were outmatched or something but Israel has more than enough non-nuclear weapons to handle just about anyone in their region.

They are the big boys on that block. No one is going to use nuclear weapons. You think Russia is ok with that taking place on their southern border ?

You think China will be ok with losing their OIL ?


www.lib.utexas.edu
 
2012-08-23 11:07:57 AM
"Why do you ask?"

"Uh" *clears throat* "No reason, really. It'd just be a conundrum is what I'm sayin'"
 
2012-08-23 11:08:23 AM

MayoSlather: If Obama came to my house and kicked my dog...I'd still vote for him. If Obama left an upper decker after he kicked my dog... I'd still vote for him. If he gave me a prison tat of a swastika in my sleep I'd still vote for Obama.


So, you're an independent, right? :)
 
2012-08-23 11:08:40 AM
Well I have no idea how Mitt would react in this situation because he doesn't outline his presidential plan/philosophy during a stump speech, but instead goes on hyperbolic rants aimed at Obama. That plays well with the idiots that make up the GOP base, but doesn't do much for the moderate voter trying to understand his policy stance. When he has been nailed down to answer a specific question, he consistently contradicts himself. If Romeny's father had not been wealthy, Mitt would have become a used car salesman. The man will tell you whatever you want to hear to make the sale.
 
2012-08-23 11:09:13 AM
Did anyone yet notice that TFA is a steaming pile of conjecture, hyperbole and basesless assumptions?

Plus, I'd vote Obama
 
2012-08-23 11:09:48 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: kindms: Kevin72: Obama.

/If Iran did attack Israel, it would be nuked by Israel so fast. Period.

They are right next to eachother. You think Israel is going to rain fallout over much of the middle east ? Think again. they might if they thought they were outmatched or something but Israel has more than enough non-nuclear weapons to handle just about anyone in their region.

They are the big boys on that block. No one is going to use nuclear weapons. You think Russia is ok with that taking place on their southern border ?

You think China will be ok with losing their OIL ?

[www.lib.utexas.edu image 850x1022]


figuratively. Nuclear fallout doesn't stay within borders
 
2012-08-23 11:15:50 AM
I'd actually vote for Obama if that were the case.

No, I wouldn't be voting for Romney otherwise. It's either 3rd party, Obama, or not voting at all.

/I'm in Oregon, so I'm leaning toward "not voting"
//All of our electoral college members are belong to Democrats
 
2012-08-23 11:21:55 AM
Obama. I'm tired of cleaning up Israel's messes, or threatening to. They want to start a war? Fine, farking let them. I don't give two shiats about that stupid little shiathole. I feel bad for the crap that has followed the Jewish people for centuries, but I don't feel that I have to personally babysit their stupid little nation that can't follow the rules the rest of the world does, and then runs behind Big Brother every time someone calls them on it.

Did I say fark Israel?
 
2012-08-23 11:31:08 AM
Obama, easily...

I'm already voting for him anyway since I don't trust Mitt Romney at all... with anything. Additionally, I think if Israel wants to start a war, it can fight that war on its own. I don't believe Iran would initiate a war with Israel... if anything it will be Israel attacking Iran.

Kuroshin: I'm in Oregon, so I'm leaning toward "not voting"


I don't care what state you're in. "Not voting" or voting third party is a vote for Mitt Romney regardless of how you try to paint your apathy. A fairly big part of the Republican campaign is to try and stop people from voting for Obama, either through voter suppression or simply by disgusting you enough to not want to take part in the process. Do what you like, but understand that if you don't vote, you're playing right into their hand.
 
2012-08-23 11:32:14 AM

Dr Dreidel: HotWingConspiracy: Obama.

fark Bibi, fark the Israeli right wing.

Yup.

clkeagle: Obama. And, hopefully that would send a message to the Israeli people. War isn't anyone's default answer anymore, so swing your next election away from the hawks.

Especially when so many younger Iranians actually like western civilization. Their revolution will come in time, and it will be permanent.

Do you know how the youth in Israel feel about Iran? Do you know how the youth feel about the possibility of war with Iran? Actually, do you know that a over half of Israelis of every age don't want war with Iran? It's really just Bibi and his hawkish right wing buddies in government who want this - his people don't - which is why he's had to take the argument international and try and cajole the US into Iraqing the place.

Apparently, everyone serving means everyone has personal investment in sending kids off to war. Israelis, it turns out, are no more eager to send the youth into a battle of questionable merit (as opposed to a defensive war) than anyone else.


Yup

Wife is Israeli
/I have several nieces nephews and cousins in law in the IDF. They are not really interested in attacking Iran. This is all Netanyahooooos posturing to get romney (his long time associate) elected. My position on Israel?

/get out of the west bank
//keep the golan
///make Jerusalem an independent city state ruled by consensus and militarily defended by the UN as a world heritage site.
 
2012-08-23 11:32:18 AM
Answer: Obama

/As if I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul.
 
2012-08-23 11:41:04 AM

TrollingForColumbine: make Jerusalem an independent city state ruled by consensus and militarily defended by the UN as a world heritage site.


This is what I'd like to see as well, but is there any precedent for something like this anywhere else in the world? With how contested the place is religiously, is there really any chance of ruling by consensus even working?
 
2012-08-23 11:52:27 AM
Obama

And hope that both sides completely destroy each other.
 
2012-08-23 11:53:51 AM
Stupid premise. Obama wouldn't have any choice but to get the U.S. involved. If Israel attacked Iran, the Iranians would start attacking tankers and would mine the Strait of Hormuz, and the U.S. Navy would immediately attack the Iranians. That the price of oil would super-spike would guarantee a vigorous U.S. response, even if Bozo The Clown was president. Contrary to the impressions of some foolish people, the president would not have the power or the discretion to "not get involved."

Was this moronic question acually in FTA? DNRTFA.
 
2012-08-23 11:55:27 AM
fark Israel.

Planning on strategically attacking Iran prior to our elections to try to force the president into a conflict, and the end result being American troops losing limbs and lives?

We have something like 32 bases surrounding Iran. We sent a battleship down the straight of Hormuz when they were at the height of their sabre rattling, and Iran did nothing to retaliate despite the threats. A preemptive strike in the next 3 months is NOT necessary.

I'm not opposed to America taking action against Iran if it comes to it, but goddamn if it won't be on OUR terms. Trying to force our hand? That's some scumbag shiat right there.

fark Israel.
 
2012-08-23 11:59:28 AM

Bladel: Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.


This.

We should have weaned Israel off the American teat over thirty years ago. If Israel can't stand on its own *and* gets belligerent, that is their problem.
 
2012-08-23 11:59:45 AM

JohnnyC: Obama, easily...

I'm already voting for him anyway since I don't trust Mitt Romney at all... with anything. Additionally, I think if Israel wants to start a war, it can fight that war on its own. I don't believe Iran would initiate a war with Israel... if anything it will be Israel attacking Iran.

Kuroshin: I'm in Oregon, so I'm leaning toward "not voting"

I don't care what state you're in. "Not voting" or voting third party is a vote for Mitt Romney regardless of how you try to paint your apathy. A fairly big part of the Republican campaign is to try and stop people from voting for Obama, either through voter suppression or simply by disgusting you enough to not want to take part in the process. Do what you like, but understand that if you don't vote, you're playing right into their hand.


You have no idea what you're talking about.

The Electoral College members in Oregon will vote for Obama. Has nothing to do with however the popular vote swings (and it won't swing Red). Back in 1999, one of 'em even stated openly that she'd put in her vote for Gore even if the people voted for Bush. The Democratic Party owns our EC votes.

Votes over who should be POTUS are symbolic for us. They serve no practical purpose.

But no, this state isn't going to flip. There were enough votes to make gay marriage permanently illegal here, but plenty of those were votes from people who still vote Dem on the national stage. We saw the same thing that Cali did with Prop 8: Democrat voters voting to oppress a minority group. Those same people would never go Red, and they make up more than 60% of our population. Of course, like I said, even if 100% of the votes were for Romney, our EC votes would still go to Obama. It's just how we roll.
 
2012-08-23 12:02:35 PM

NeoCortex42: TrollingForColumbine: make Jerusalem an independent city state ruled by consensus and militarily defended by the UN as a world heritage site.

This is what I'd like to see as well, but is there any precedent for something like this anywhere else in the world? With how contested the place is religiously, is there really any chance of ruling by consensus even working?


There are only a few things both sides would agree too. Keep the lights on, Keep the sewers working, keep the water clean, etc. everything controversial would remain as it is because there could be no consensus to make changes. And if people don't like it the Blue Hats can convince them it is in their best interest.
 
2012-08-23 12:02:57 PM
I don't believe America is under any obligation to defend Israel, and even in all the past wars Israel has had, America didn't have "boots on the ground", why would they for this?

/Only Americans that died during Israeli wars has been on the USS Liberty...
 
2012-08-23 12:04:52 PM

KiplingKat872: Bladel: Israel attacks Iran - stay out.
Iran attacks Israel - different story.

Obama on both counts.

This.

We should have weaned Israel off the American teat over thirty years ago. If Israel can't stand on its own *and* gets belligerent, that is their problem.


Double This.
 
2012-08-23 12:04:56 PM

Kuroshin: The Electoral College members in Oregon will vote for Obama. Has nothing to do with however the popular vote swings (and it won't swing Red). Back in 1999, one of 'em even stated openly that she'd put in her vote for Gore even if the people voted for Bush. The Democratic Party owns our EC votes.


So the electoral college members aren't bound to the results of the state's popular vote? Is that a peculiar thing, or is it that way in most states?
 
2012-08-23 12:05:04 PM

NeoCortex42: TrollingForColumbine: make Jerusalem an independent city state ruled by consensus and militarily defended by the UN as a world heritage site.

This is what I'd like to see as well, but is there any precedent for something like this anywhere else in the world? With how contested the place is religiously, is there really any chance of ruling by consensus even working?


And the only corollary I can think of is possibly Berlin I probably not well studied enough to comment further.
 
2012-08-23 12:06:22 PM
President Obama.
Maybe if there's somebody else running for the Democratic nomination I'll listen to them.
Maybe if the Republican party nominates somebody other than Mitt Romney (and none of this past year's candidates for the Republican nomination) I'll listen to them.
If the small parties are running anybody I'll listen to them.

But I'd be dead before voting for Mitt Romney. The man is hateful, has pretty much promised to have me executed because of the way I was born. He is about ten minutes from creating concentration camps so that he can execute anybody that's already been born, but is big on preserving the unborn, so he can off them post-birth.

Somehow this is a "pro-life" candidate.
As a veteran, I'm bound to an oath to defend the United States; I could go to prison for voting for Romney.
I will not vote for Mitt Romney.
 
2012-08-23 12:08:38 PM
I guess the article is wrong then. Obama won't look weak if he tells Israel to eff off
 
2012-08-23 12:33:17 PM

Kuroshin: You have no idea what you're talking about.

The Electoral College members in Oregon will vote for Obama. Has nothing to do with however the popular vote swings (and it won't swing Red). Back in 1999, one of 'em even stated openly that she'd put in her vote for Gore even if the people voted for Bush. The Democratic Party owns our EC votes.


You do realize there has only been one instance of an Elector voting against the will of those they represent and that guy did it just to emphasize that it could be done (during an election where it wouldn't/didn't make any difference)? Right? Oregon will almost assuredly go for Obama, but imagine if most of the people in Oregon thought like you do... the race between Bush and Kerry was fairly close there but did go Kerry's way:

John Kerry: 943,163 votes
George Bush: 866,831 votes

in 2000 it was even closer:

Al Gore: 720,342
George Bush: 713,577
Ralph Nader: 77,357

Despite your self assurances, all it would have taken was for 76,333 voters to go the other way in 2004.. In 2000 it was a difference of 6,765... Nader voters almost handed the state to Bush that year. So... maybe... just maybe, it's you who doesn't know what you're talking about.
 
2012-08-23 12:34:29 PM
Is fark behind on its paranoid loon quota that it keeps greenlighting Israel-Iran threads?

/What happens if Israel and the US never attack Iran? I bet it's not a re-examination of one's hatred of Israel.
 
2012-08-23 12:38:44 PM

vygramul: Is fark behind on its paranoid loon quota that it keeps greenlighting Israel-Iran threads?

/What happens if Israel and the US never attack Iran? I bet it's not a re-examination of one's hatred of Israel.


thats the likely scenario
 
2012-08-23 12:44:12 PM

vygramul: I bet it's not a re-examination of one's hatred of Israel.


Hatred is too strong a word... dislike... mistrust... disgust perhaps... but not hatred.
 
2012-08-23 12:50:15 PM

vygramul: Is fark behind on its paranoid loon quota that it keeps greenlighting Israel-Iran threads?

/What happens if Israel and the US never attack Iran? I bet it's not a re-examination of one's hatred of Israel.


I hate Israel, Iran, U.S, China, Russia, North Korea
 
2012-08-23 01:05:06 PM
Question for Americans: If sometime during the next 10 weeks Israel attacked Iran and Obama jumped in with both feet, would that encourage you to vote Obama or Romney?

Fark libs: Obama
 
2012-08-23 01:07:49 PM

L82DPRT: Question for Americans: If sometime during the next 10 weeks Israel attacked Iran and Obama jumped in with both feet, would that encourage you to vote Obama or Romney?

Fark libs: Obama


You still think that Obama is a liberal. That's cute.

As a Green Party member, under those circumstances I would not vote for either.

But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.
 
2012-08-23 01:12:12 PM

NeoCortex42: Kuroshin: The Electoral College members in Oregon will vote for Obama. Has nothing to do with however the popular vote swings (and it won't swing Red). Back in 1999, one of 'em even stated openly that she'd put in her vote for Gore even if the people voted for Bush. The Democratic Party owns our EC votes.

So the electoral college members aren't bound to the results of the state's popular vote? Is that a peculiar thing, or is it that way in most states?


Depends on the State. We have no such regulation here.



JohnnyC: Despite your self assurances, all it would have taken was for 76,333 voters to go the other way in 2004.. In 2000 it was a difference of 6,765... Nader voters almost handed the state to Bush that year. So... maybe... just maybe, it's you who doesn't know what you're talking about.


Can't find the news clip where one of our ECs stated flat-out that she would vote for Gore, regardless of the popular vote. I remember sitting in the lunchroom at the office and thinking "WTF?!" Looked up our laws regarding EC votes, and realized that she has every right to do so.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. This state won't flip.

/have never personally voted for a Democrat POTUS, so my vote can't help anyway
 
2012-08-23 03:51:03 PM
Obama; has vowed to minimize invasions, took out an country without even using ground troops and to great international approval.

Romney; has vowed to invite Iran, Syria, Iraq, and the Soviet Union.

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Obama as well.
 
2012-08-23 09:00:40 PM
I could see why Israel would do this just to get Obama out of office. Get a Republican in there whose base wants to protect Israel for the return of their lord (farking nutcases).

Strange bedfellows indeed.
 
2012-08-23 09:07:54 PM

Dr Dreidel: Actually, do you know that a over half of Israelis of every age don't want war with Iran? It's really just Bibi and his hawkish right wing buddies in government who want this


Alone.

The polls will show most Israelis think Israel should not act alone but should act with US or international help.


Its different if the US helps
Jpost poll: Most Israelis support US-led Iran strike

TrollingForColumbine: Yup


check your source
 
2012-08-23 09:10:19 PM

vygramul: Is fark behind on its paranoid loon quota that it keeps greenlighting Israel-Iran threads?

/What happens if Israel and the US never attack Iran? I bet it's not a re-examination of one's hatred of Israel.


The siege mentality.
 
2012-08-23 09:16:40 PM
KiplingKat872
But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.

assuming that he cares more about the country than about his political career
 
2012-08-23 10:20:53 PM

RanDomino: KiplingKat872
But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.

assuming that he cares more about the country than about his political career


Dude, after the last eleven years the only people in this country interested in starting another ground war are the chicken hawks. Most of America would rather see us get out of Afgahnistan than go into Iran.
 
2012-08-23 10:38:36 PM
Obama- because we can't afford to get involved. We don't need to be in a pissing match with Russia and China.
 
2012-08-24 12:22:32 AM

RanDomino: KiplingKat872
But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.

assuming that he cares more about the country than about his political career


Yeah...

Link

I think we're good.
 
2012-08-24 12:23:54 AM

Bloody William: If Iran attacks Israel and doesn't completely cripple their military capabilities, Obama's only move should be to raise a hand and say, "Hold on. This is gonna be funny."


...That would...really amuse me. And I would feel so, so bad for laughing.
 
2012-08-24 12:24:55 AM

Jurodan: RanDomino: KiplingKat872
But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.

assuming that he cares more about the country than about his political career

Yeah...

Link

I think we're good.


sonova...

shaktronics.com

/hit add comment instead of preview...
//and obviously link instead of image...
///I should get some sleep...
 
2012-08-24 12:48:59 AM
Jurodan
Yeah...
Link
I think we're good.


achievement unlocked - disprove an accusation of political theatrics with an example of political theatrics
 
2012-08-24 01:31:16 AM
I don't answer push poll questions.
 
2012-08-24 04:37:02 AM

Jurodan: Jurodan: RanDomino: KiplingKat872
But the president is smart enough to know we can't afford another war quagmire right now.

assuming that he cares more about the country than about his political career

Yeah...

Link

I think we're good.

sonova...



/hit add comment instead of preview...
//and obviously link instead of image...
///I should get some sleep...


A special op is not a ground war.

So sorry Obama took care of the guy Bush said he was "just not that concerned about" two years after 9/11.
 
2012-08-24 04:41:24 AM

RanDomino: Jurodan
Yeah...
Link
I think we're good.

achievement unlocked - disprove an accusation of political theatrics with an example of political theatrics


Really? Taking out the one of the biggiest criminals on the planet who was instrumental in mudering thousands of people in dozens of terrorist attacks across globe is "political theatre?"

I suppose the trial of Timothy McVeigh was just for TV ratings...
 
2012-08-24 04:46:12 AM
"political theatre?"

It can be argued that Jimmy Carter lost his presidency over placing such a bet.
 
2012-08-24 02:44:19 PM
KiplingKat872
Really? Taking out the one of the biggiest criminals on the planet who was instrumental in mudering thousands of people in dozens of terrorist attacks across globe is "political theatre?"

A complete has-been, for the purpose of looking like a super-patriot tough guy. Yes.
 
2012-08-24 11:00:39 PM
No.
 
2012-08-25 01:10:05 AM

SilentStrider: Obama, hands down. Israel are big boys. They don't need our troops dying in their war, and they don't need our money to fight it either.


You anti-Semite! I'll inform the ADL about you!
 
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