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(Wired)   Good news: Department of Homeland Security catches hundreds of drug smugglers, robbers, document forgers and kiddie-porn collectors ever year. Bad news: Among its own employees. Feel safer yet?   (wired.com) divider line 89
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6857 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Aug 2012 at 5:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 11:32:48 PM
Thank you once again for expanding government and the national debt, President Bush and the GOP.
 
2012-08-22 11:37:58 PM
Strangely, this is kind of a good thing. It means that DHS is actually looking internally for criminals, and not ignoring them or assuming they don't exist.
 
2012-08-22 11:40:20 PM
The DHS wants rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists.
 
2012-08-22 11:49:11 PM
Ever year?
 
2012-08-23 12:02:07 AM

fusillade762: Ever year?


It's not Ever year. It's Everclear
/190 
//used to drink it with navy guys back in the 80's
 
2012-08-23 12:05:49 AM
I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.
 
2012-08-23 12:18:54 AM

Ambivalence: Strangely, this is kind of a good thing. It means that DHS is actually looking internally for criminals, and not ignoring them or assuming they don't exist.


sort of kind of
plus we can assume that they are only catching a fraction of the criminals at DHS
we should probably create a new organization which is in charge of investigating DHS. They should get bonuses based on prison time for successful prosecutions.
 
2012-08-23 12:23:14 AM

namatad: Ambivalence: Strangely, this is kind of a good thing. It means that DHS is actually looking internally for criminals, and not ignoring them or assuming they don't exist.

sort of kind of
plus we can assume that they are only catching a fraction of the criminals at DHS
we should probably create a new organization which is in charge of investigating DHS. They should get bonuses based on prison time for successful prosecutions.


I've always said assumption is the root of all error. You can't safely quantify an unknown based on assumption. Extrapolation maybe, but not assumption. If DHS caught x% of its workforce in criminal activity (on a consistant basis) that may indicate there is always x% of criminals in their workforce. (for example)
 
2012-08-23 12:24:28 AM
It is relaxing to hear that the watchers are themselves being watched.
 
2012-08-23 01:52:22 AM

namatad: we should probably create a new organization which is in charge of investigating DHS


I always thought there should be more than one police agency, and they both have the ability to arrest each other as if the other is a citizen.

Make this whole "checks and balances" thing fractal or something.
 
2012-08-23 02:02:36 AM
This sounds like some sort of cunning sting operation.
 
2012-08-23 02:13:45 AM

simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.


Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.
 
2012-08-23 02:46:53 AM

fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.


Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.
 
2012-08-23 03:53:01 AM

impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.


Fatherland wouldn't work work too well. We are all immigrants or children of immigrants, except for Amer-Indians, who are also immigrants.
 
2012-08-23 04:21:03 AM

impaler: namatad: we should probably create a new organization which is in charge of investigating DHS

I always thought there should be more than one police agency, and they both have the ability to arrest each other as if the other is a citizen.
Make this whole "checks and balances" thing fractal or something.


the place which I go is somewhat related to Heinlein's Fair Witness concept. Fully fund the Public defenders departments to the needed level
1) no police officer is allowed to talk to a citizen without a Fair Witness being present ever. they wouldnt need to be a lawyer, but they would be the first line. this would include patrols and traffic stops
2) they would be recording everything that officer does 100% of the time.

sucks, but the police have proven over and over that they can never ever be trusted alone
the reduction in lawsuit settlements alone would almost fund the new program

lol
like the people with the power would ever give it up
 
2012-08-23 05:33:15 AM
318 down, 225,000 to go.
 
2012-08-23 05:40:22 AM

jake_lex: The DHS wants rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists.


No gum chewers.
 
2012-08-23 05:41:14 AM
Subby, I wet my pants after 9/11. My convictions went out the window. I am willing to accept the most draconian or even worthless theater measures in stride because I love America. You don't even want to know how much I love this country and the Constitution I'm willing to subvert for it. If it weren't for liberals whining so much, we'd have a version of the TSA at every state fair, keeping our children safe.

I don't know why you hate America, but maybe you should move to Canada or something.
 
2012-08-23 05:46:58 AM

impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.


I remember having a serious case of the creeps when they named it DHS. I looked around, wondering why more people weren't alarmed by the ominous name. And I'm hardly a "wake up, sheeple" type.

Also, I wonder about the outcry had it been Obama who created "Homeland Security." Given that this is a nation that found controversy in him giving a motivational speech to elementary school children, I can't even imagine the DERPCON 1 levels of blogger patriot Fox diarrhea. As it stands, we're all pretty cool with it because hey, you were either with us or against us.
 
2012-08-23 05:50:41 AM
Good job Republicans.
 
2012-08-23 05:52:17 AM

namatad: the place which I go is somewhat related to Heinlein's Fair Witness concept. Fully fund the Public defenders departments to the needed level
1) no police officer is allowed to talk to a citizen without a Fair Witness being present ever. they wouldnt need to be a lawyer, but they would be the first line. this would include patrols and traffic stops
2) they would be recording everything that officer does 100% of the time.


Too much work.

Instead of all that bullshiat, just pay cops enough that people worth hiring want to join. Like most all things in life, 100% is not an acceptable goal. There will always be a fail point in any system.

Thus the best solution is not the one that reaches the highest percentage of success, but rather the one that reaches the highest percentage of success with the least input.

A supercalifragilisticexpialidocious automatic machine gun robot with a supercomputer hooked inside to calculate bullet trajectories and hooked directly to the Pentagon's best real time map of the battle field would be really useful for guarding bases.

Instead, we just have guys with guns in towers. They're more fallible than the robot and mistakes can and do happen. But at the end of the day they cost $0.00 to utilize because they and their rifles are already there on site and they do a pretty decent freakin' job.

Making some kind of official police policers will simply result in a giant money vacuum and reams of red tape and won't prevent incidents like that jackass on the BART platform who shot the guy in the back. All we really need to do is UP the standards required of cops and reward people who meet those standards. Just like teaching. It's not quit throwing money at it till it goes away, but throwing money at it will be a lot easier and do more good than some insanely complicated Rube Goldberg system.
 
2012-08-23 05:54:31 AM

jake_lex: The DHS wants rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists.


Could you repeat that, sir?
 
2012-08-23 05:55:16 AM

simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.


I was pretty upset when I found out that the government of the United States, along with every state and local government, was incorporated. Then I read the legal definition of a "note" in Black's Law Dictionary, looked in my wallet, and I got even more upset. That tends to happen when you get a glimpse of the real world.
 
2012-08-23 06:20:00 AM
According to the report, a Border Patrol agent from Tucson named Yamilkar Fierros was given 20 months in prison for providing "sensor location maps, trail maps, and communications technology" to cartel members in exchange for more than $5,000 in bribes.

Gold or lead.
 
2012-08-23 06:21:27 AM

namatad: impaler: namatad: we should probably create a new organization which is in charge of investigating DHS

I always thought there should be more than one police agency, and they both have the ability to arrest each other as if the other is a citizen.
Make this whole "checks and balances" thing fractal or something.

the place which I go is somewhat related to Heinlein's Fair Witness concept. Fully fund the Public defenders departments to the needed level
1) no police officer is allowed to talk to a citizen without a Fair Witness being present ever. they wouldnt need to be a lawyer, but they would be the first line. this would include patrols and traffic stops
2) they would be recording everything that officer does 100% of the time.

sucks, but the police have proven over and over that they can never ever be trusted alone
the reduction in lawsuit settlements alone would almost fund the new program

lol
like the people with the power would ever give it up


i think that is a pretty clever idea. those who currently make a living as lawyers will make sure it never happens, supported by their clubs, groups and educators.
 
2012-08-23 06:23:04 AM

crab66: Good job Republicans.


At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,
 
2012-08-23 06:27:06 AM

simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.


Yep! And Germany has a Fatherland and Russia and China call it Motherland. I wonder if there's a reason for that. Fascist Germany would think of the state as the Father, setting up rules and cracking down! Socialist/Communist Russia and China might look on the state as Mother, providing and nurturing... Or, at least, that's what the propagandists would want you to feel.

I don't know what other countries have though. Australia has Queensland, but that's not the same, is it? Maybe for Japan it's Monsterland?
 
2012-08-23 06:28:53 AM

quatchi: According to the report, a Border Patrol agent from Tucson named Yamilkar Fierros was given 20 months in prison for providing "sensor location maps, trail maps, and communications technology" to cartel members in exchange for more than $5,000 in bribes.

Gold or lead.


My first thought.
Obvious.
 
2012-08-23 06:29:42 AM
Feel safer yet?

For once, yeah. A little.
 
2012-08-23 06:32:03 AM
Of course, this is clearly impossible, since rather than contracting with private employees, we went with the more reliable government employee route.
 
2012-08-23 06:35:23 AM
Those are just the sneaky ones. The blatently obvious criminals are kept in the airports at the gates.
 
2012-08-23 06:40:10 AM

quatchi: According to the report, a Border Patrol agent from Tucson named Yamilkar Fierros was given 20 months in prison for providing "sensor location maps, trail maps, and communications technology" to cartel members in exchange for more than $5,000 in bribes.

Gold or lead.


Hamilcar? NEVER trust a Carthaginian on your border...
 
2012-08-23 06:47:02 AM

impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.


huh. I thought the same thing when I first heard that.
It still makes me nervous & I don't even live in the US of A
Sometimes I'ts good to be a disenfranchised fringe-dweller.

/the pay sucks though
 
2012-08-23 06:48:40 AM
What the fark I'm about to go to work (unlike unlike unlike) wait this isn't Facebook nvm
 
2012-08-23 06:49:37 AM
Corruption in my government? No way! #tinfoil hat
 
2012-08-23 06:51:23 AM

Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,


So vote Republican.
 
2012-08-23 06:55:53 AM
Oddly, yes. Because this means they are willing to ferret out corruption where they find it.
 
2012-08-23 07:01:06 AM
The people in DHS who were arrested probably just failed to give Paulie their tribute.

/Goodfellas reference for those for whom that was obscure.
//Nothing is obscure on Fark, yeah yeah.
 
2012-08-23 07:01:06 AM
jake_lex:
The DHS wants rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists.

Religious test for public service? Your joke needs SOCAT.
 
2012-08-23 07:12:01 AM

No Such Agency: jake_lex:
The DHS wants rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists.

Religious test for public service? Your joke needs SOCAT.


OMG I can't even acronym properly. I has a dumb.
 
2012-08-23 07:26:56 AM
The tsa is part of dhs. Nano surprise here.
 
2012-08-23 07:34:28 AM
Don't forget this case. Putting the foxes in charge of the hen house.
 
2012-08-23 07:40:49 AM

untaken_name: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

I was pretty upset when I found out that the government of the United States, along with every state and local government, was incorporated. Then I read the legal definition of a "note" in Black's Law Dictionary, looked in my wallet, and I got even more upset. That tends to happen when you get a glimpse of the real world.



Wait til you find out about the Reptilians. it will blow your mind!
 
2012-08-23 07:41:08 AM

crab66: Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,

So vote Republican.


Because we need people to continue not fixing our problems.
Oh, wait, you can get that with either party.
 
2012-08-23 07:44:16 AM
FTA "The number of arrests is going down: there were 519 arrests in 2010, compared to the 318 last year."

All that means is that they didn't catch enough perps last year. Besides, arrests don't mean shiate without a conviction.
You could be arrested and released without charge.

I'm more interested in the conviction rate than the number of arrests.

How many have been arrested/convicted so far this year?

/Go Fashaland.
 
2012-08-23 07:49:38 AM
AlwaysRightBoy

fusillade762:
Ever year?

It's not Ever year. It's Everclear
/190
//used to drink it with navy guys back in the 80's


Naw. It's "Ever hear". As in: Ever hear that we catch the drug smugglers and bad guys an' we don't even hafta leave the building!"
 
2012-08-23 07:51:28 AM
FTFA:

"A Border Patrol agent in Arizona "punched a fellow agent and threatened him with his service-issued weapon after the fellow agent joked about the excessive amount of tactical gear the [Border Patrol] routinely wore," according to the report."

profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-23 07:52:35 AM

simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.


*Squints through round glasses while wearing Nazi WWII helmet*
the term sound Verrrrrrry Interesting.
*moves palm leaf back in place*
 
2012-08-23 07:52:48 AM
Now if they could just do that with corporate and financial oversight areas. Arrest the people that turn a blind eye or are complacent in financial gymnastics in order to be rewarded with cushy "consulting" jobs in the private sector after retiring on full government pensions as reward for their service to their corporate overlords.

I can dream.
 
2012-08-23 07:55:22 AM
According to the report, a Border Patrol agent from Tucson named Yamilkar Fierros was given 20 months in prison for providing "sensor location maps, trail maps, and communications technology" to cartel members in exchange for more than $5,000 in bribes.

I believe the term "Cheap Bastard" applies. Unless those sensors move every couple of days, that information will be resold and the original briber will get his $5000 back pretty quickly. If you're gonna sell out, don't do it too low. Also have more information to sell or you will be the one the bad guys through to the wolves when it's time.
 
2012-08-23 07:59:01 AM

Harry Freakstorm: I believe the term "Cheap Bastard" applies. Unless those sensors move every couple of days, that information will be resold and the original briber will get his $5000 back pretty quickly. If you're gonna sell out, don't do it too low. Also have more information to sell or you will be the one the bad guys through to the wolves when it's time.


You want to barter with people who are offering you the option of "take our 5000 or take a bullet to the head"?

You sound shrewd.
 
2012-08-23 08:02:10 AM
It DOES attest to the fact that they are checking for this kind of thing. Some organizations don't really even look
 
2012-08-23 08:03:13 AM
Why is this news? The world over its pretty common that you can get across most borders without a passport.. so long as you have enough money. EVERYONE has a price... some are just a lot more than others. And anyways.. looks how big the drug cartels are that support the habits of Americans. We are the biggest consumers of illicit drugs IN THE WORLD.

This is just a stupid article to say oh wow hey can you believe Border Patrol and TSA agents are getting caught turning a blind eye at borders and airports in exchange for obscene amounts of money.. and how many cop movies have we made over the past 80 years that comment on this very thing... and thousands of years of history before that where its happened all the way to Biblical times..
 
2012-08-23 08:04:20 AM
sorry I really went off the deep end there. One too many pointless news story today.. all hyping long established normal human activity as somehow surprising...
 
2012-08-23 08:05:36 AM

cretinbob: Thank you once again for expanding government and the national debt, President Bush and the GOP.


It would probably astound you how much this cost Bush in terms of rank and file republicans. It cost them a lot of registered voters (myself included), elected Obama and pretty much created the Tea Party.
 
2012-08-23 08:07:16 AM

cretinbob: Thank you once again for expanding government and the national debt, President Bush and the GOP.


crab66: Good job Republicans.


Of course the Democrats and/or Obama have done nothing to harness, or do away with the DHS. The TSA has even become more draconic under the Obama administration.
Face it, both parties suck at really protecting our individual liberties.
I suppose at least we should be happy that the DHS is policing its own.
 
2012-08-23 08:09:06 AM

cretinbob: Thank you once again for expanding government and the national debt, President Bush and the GOP.


bu bu bu BUT the GOP is the fiscal conservative small government party!! Unlike those "tax and spend democrats".

Also libs libs libs libs....
 
2012-08-23 08:12:27 AM
Sometimes, it takes a snake to catch another snake
 
2012-08-23 08:18:15 AM

way south: crab66: Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,

So vote Republican.

Because we need people to continue not fixing our problems.
Oh, wait, you can get that with either party.


Yeah, but one of them actively seeks to create even more problems, and is the one who created all our current problems... Sure, the other isn't the greatest at fixing the mess left for them to cleanup as fast as we'd all like, but at least they're not actively trying to worsen the situation... If the choice is between evil or incompetence, I'll take the latter...
 
2012-08-23 08:20:42 AM

doglover: namatad: the place which I go is somewhat related to Heinlein's Fair Witness concept. Fully fund the Public defenders departments to the needed level
1) no police officer is allowed to talk to a citizen without a Fair Witness being present ever. they wouldnt need to be a lawyer, but they would be the first line. this would include patrols and traffic stops
2) they would be recording everything that officer does 100% of the time.

Too much work.

Instead of all that bullshiat, just pay cops enough that people worth hiring want to join. Like most all things in life, 100% is not an acceptable goal. There will always be a fail point in any system.


That doesn't make 100% an unacceptable goal. It may be unachievable, but we should strive for it. The other problem with your idea is that paying cops more won't eliminate corruption. That's a pipe dream.

The real problem with any kind of Fair Witness program would be the Fair Witnesses would be prone to corruption as well.
 
2012-08-23 08:21:20 AM

RobSeace: way south: crab66: Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,

So vote Republican.

Because we need people to continue not fixing our problems.
Oh, wait, you can get that with either party.

Yeah, but one of them actively seeks to create even more problems, and is the one who created all our current problems... Sure, the other isn't the greatest at fixing the mess left for them to cleanup as fast as we'd all like, but at least they're not actively trying to worsen the situation... If the choice is between evil or incompetence, I'll take the latter...


Sadly, I read your post and could honestly not figure out which party fell into what category.
 
2012-08-23 08:31:04 AM

CMYK and PMS: untaken_name: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

I was pretty upset when I found out that the government of the United States, along with every state and local government, was incorporated. Then I read the legal definition of a "note" in Black's Law Dictionary, looked in my wallet, and I got even more upset. That tends to happen when you get a glimpse of the real world.


Wait til you find out about the Reptilians. it will blow your mind!


Yes, because research using a law dictionary is SO CRAZY. It's just like believing in aliens! Who'd ever need to look in a law dictionary anyway? No one uses those, right?
 
2012-08-23 08:37:15 AM

cretinbob: Thank you once again for expanding government and the national debt, President Bush and the GOP.


Remember kids,, not one democrat vot dyes on that near unanimous measure. Not.one democrat allowed.the extension of that measure.
 
2012-08-23 08:39:30 AM

dickfreckle: impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.

I remember having a serious case of the creeps when they named it DHS. I looked around, wondering why more people weren't alarmed by the ominous name. And I'm hardly a "wake up, sheeple" type.

Also, I wonder about the outcry had it been Obama who created "Homeland Security." Given that this is a nation that found controversy in him giving a motivational speech to elementary school children, I can't even imagine the DERPCON 1 levels of blogger patriot Fox diarrhea. As it stands, we're all pretty cool with it because hey, you were either with us or against us.


Well it is a good thing Obama didn't extend powers and allow an extension past his desk!
 
2012-08-23 08:39:52 AM

simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.


So much this. When I first heard about Homeland security, it reminded me of Nazi Germany for some reason.
 
2012-08-23 08:43:40 AM
No rapists?

\I like rape
 
2012-08-23 08:51:03 AM

RobSeace: way south: crab66: Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,

So vote Republican.

Because we need people to continue not fixing our problems.
Oh, wait, you can get that with either party.

Yeah, but one of them actively seeks to create even more problems, and is the one who created all our current problems... Sure, the other isn't the greatest at fixing the mess left for them to cleanup as fast as we'd all like, but at least they're not actively trying to worsen the situation... If the choice is between evil or incompetence, I'll take the latter...


Abe Vigoda's Ghost: RobSeace: way south: crab66: Dupa: crab66: Good job Republicans.

At least Obama got them under control, and restored our liberties, when he got to office,

So vote Republican.

Because we need people to continue not fixing our problems.
Oh, wait, you can get that with either party.

Yeah, but one of them actively seeks to create even more problems, and is the one who created all our current problems... Sure, the other isn't the greatest at fixing the mess left for them to cleanup as fast as we'd all like, but at least they're not actively trying to worsen the situation... If the choice is between evil or incompetence, I'll take the latter...

Sadly, I read your post and could honestly not figure out which party fell into what category.


This is the problem with our system.
Take away the labels and both sides become difficult to distinguish. They each use the party name to create an illusion of a choice that doesn't exist. Things like the patriot act or gun control may be created by Republicans or Democrats respectively, but when the other has its turn they spend zero time to undo the damage.
Both are complicit so it makes no sense to focus the blame either one.

I think if we spent more time to judge and blame individual politicians, according to their actions, alot of the foolishness would stop.
 
2012-08-23 08:57:19 AM
There's also a caveat. While the numbers of arrests have fallen this year, the long-term trend of cases against CBP agents, at least, has been on a rise since 2004, according to the Arizona Daily Star.

They got this here depression on-3.bp.blogspot.com

from a Dapper Dan man
 
2012-08-23 09:30:39 AM

way south: Things like the patriot act or gun control may be created by Republicans or Democrats respectively, but when the other has its turn they spend zero time to undo the damage.
Both are complicit so it makes no sense to focus the blame either one.


There's some sense there, but honestly who do you place more blame on: the guy who burned down your house, or the firefighters who didn't get there fast enough or do a good enough job to save it?

Yes, it would be nice if Obama would work to get rid of the PATRIOT act and eliminate DHS and do all kinds of other things to undo shiat that Bush did... But, at least he hasn't created any new problems on that level that I'm aware of, anyway! Well, except for all the people who think making healthcare available to all is somehow a big problem... We've been living with "Obamacare" (though we call it "Romneycare") here in Mass. for years, and haven't all died in some horrific socialist dystopia yet... (And, we all find it amusing the see old Mitt try to rail against the very system he created now that Obama has copied it...)

Is either side great? Hell no... Is one side noticably worse than the other? Yes, I certainly think so... And, yes, your point about blaming individuals rather than the party they belong to has merit... Except when every other member of the party vocally supports the individual's actions and vows to keep doing more of the same... (I'm mostly thinking here about the Republicans vowing to continue the same voodoo economics bullshiat of "Just keep cutting more taxes on the rich and deregulating everything!", despite seeing the results of that failed idea in our current wrecked economy... That's some deep delusional thinking they've got going on there... They won't be happy until they've utterly destroyed the country... And, then they'll just blame it on the Democrats somehow, and say they simply didn't go far enough in their approach!)
 
2012-08-23 09:56:22 AM
thanks for keeping this shiatty abomination around, obama
 
2012-08-23 09:59:18 AM

RobSeace: Is either side great? Hell no... Is one side noticably worse than the other? Yes, I certainly think so.


Except that this is where we fall into the trap of "More good, less bad!" politics.
I'm supposed to retort something about you attacking the job creators and whatnot.

Fact is There are those who disagree with what the stereotyped image of democratic economists think is good. I think there are many rich people who provide opportunities for the rest of us with their wealth, and unduly taxing them creates a situation where they run or hide money rather than pay for that.
Instead of simply taxing them for the government to spend it on wasteful projects, we need to focus on how the rich spend their money and push it into the things we need. Coercion rather than force.

At any rate: The argument isn't about taxing the wealthy into the ground (Democrats won't do that) or deregulating everything so the wealthy can tear this nation apart (Republicans wont do that either). Its about specific policies that we are both supposed to ignore or overlook because we really don't understand what they will do.

What I know they will do is benefit specific politicians.
If we get informed on that and talk about which congress critter gets what payback for their services, we could probably whittle away at the real corruption that goes on.
 
2012-08-23 10:07:02 AM
...but how many actual terrorists?
 
2012-08-23 10:16:00 AM

way south: Except that this is where we fall into the trap of "More good, less bad!" politics.


If by that you mean we're always forced into a choice between two horrible candidates, and we're forced to pick the "less shiatty" one, I agree that sucks... It would be nice if we could somehow do away with the two party system we've got, but I don't really know how to do it... As it currently stands, voting for a third party is basically equivalent to not voting...

What I'd actually prefer to see is the total elimination of political parties entirely... Let every candidate stand on their own and all compete against one another... Anyone that wants their name on the ballot can do so... We'd maybe have an initial "primary" election of sorts just to narrow down the choices to maybe the top 3 or 4 vote getters, and then the final election would just be among them...

If we get informed on that and talk about which congress critter gets what payback for their services, we could probably whittle away at the real corruption that goes on.

That would be nice, but I'm not sure anyone even cares enough to do anything about it... It's pretty widely known that they all essentially are bribed by big businesses to pass laws protecting their interests, and everyone just seems to accept it as the way it is... I'm not sure how you change that... Just voting them out and new people in won't really do it; the new ones will just become just as corrupt...
 
2012-08-23 10:34:51 AM
The only guy I know who was hired by homeland security was a ex cop in Maryland that got fired for buying crack for his crackhead mistress. He was suppose to arrest her for being a prostitute but he found it was more fun to fark her and she was willing to put out as long as he was supplying her with the buzz.

This sounds like a made up story but it's not.
 
2012-08-23 10:46:25 AM

doglover: namatad: the place which I go is somewhat related to Heinlein's Fair Witness concept. Fully fund the Public defenders departments to the needed level
1) no police officer is allowed to talk to a citizen without a Fair Witness being present ever. they wouldnt need to be a lawyer, but they would be the first line. this would include patrols and traffic stops
2) they would be recording everything that officer does 100% of the time.

Too much work.

Instead of all that bullshiat, just pay cops enough that people worth hiring want to join. Like most all things in life, 100% is not an acceptable goal. There will always be a fail point in any system.

Thus the best solution is not the one that reaches the highest percentage of success, but rather the one that reaches the highest percentage of success with the least input.

A supercalifragilisticexpialidocious automatic machine gun robot with a supercomputer hooked inside to calculate bullet trajectories and hooked directly to the Pentagon's best real time map of the battle field would be really useful for guarding bases.

Instead, we just have guys with guns in towers. They're more fallible than the robot and mistakes can and do happen. But at the end of the day they cost $0.00 to utilize because they and their rifles are already there on site and they do a pretty decent freakin' job.

Making some kind of official police policers will simply result in a giant money vacuum and reams of red tape and won't prevent incidents like that jackass on the BART platform who shot the guy in the back. All we really need to do is UP the standards required of cops and reward people who meet those standards. Just like teaching. It's not quit throwing money at it till it goes away, but throwing money at it will be a lot easier and do more good than some insanely complicated Rube Goldberg system.


Much too reasonable, sorry.

(Does this dude belong on Fark?)
 
2012-08-23 10:52:40 AM
Worse.

Won't you feel cuddly, safe, and warm at DragonCon with them on duty.
 
2012-08-23 11:49:27 AM

SoxSweepAgain: The people in DHS who were arrested probably just failed to give Paulie their tribute.

/Goodfellas reference for those for whom that was obscure.
//Nothing is obscure on Fark, yeah yeah.


Cue Donovan's "Atlantis", and site of non-tribute payers getting viciously kicked in the ribs and groin.
 
2012-08-23 11:53:30 AM
Revolving door, folks. The HRs at DynCorp won't even look at a resume unless the applicant has at least two years' worth of public-sector drug, weapons or sex slave-smuggling experience.
 
2012-08-23 12:57:33 PM
Well at least someone is getting the wolves out of the hen house.

If we could just do that with the Government, we might be safe.
 
2012-08-23 03:30:54 PM
This is indeed fail boat of George W Bush. Why not just absorb the whole department into the FBI and CIA and close down Home Land Security already?
 
2012-08-23 03:38:00 PM

captcaveman: This is indeed fail boat of George W Bush. Why not just absorb the whole department into the FBI and CIA and close down Home Land Security already?


Because GW thought the novel 1984 was a how-to guide, and inertia is one of the strongest forces in the Universe.
 
2012-08-23 04:33:16 PM
Maybe if the government didnt persecute, black ball, or indefinetly detain people who expose criminal activity and even treason by their superiors then it would be such a magnet for those who want to commit those acts.
 
2012-08-23 05:30:05 PM

impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.


Are you guys retarded? Homeland, fatherland, motherland etc. have been around for thousands of years.

There are tons of things about our government to validly criticize and you are skipping those in favor of the liberal equivalent to "soshulisms!"
 
2012-08-23 05:48:11 PM

Smackledorfer: impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.

Are you guys retarded? Homeland, fatherland, motherland etc. have been around for thousands of years.

There are tons of things about our government to validly criticize and you are skipping those in favor of the liberal equivalent to "soshulisms!"


Well, yeah. Department of National Security would have worked.
 
2012-08-23 05:50:34 PM

Smackledorfer: impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.

Are you guys retarded? Homeland, fatherland, motherland etc. have been around for thousands of years.


Why not a Brotherland, Sisterland, or Cousinland?
 
2012-08-23 05:54:37 PM

dbirchall: Smackledorfer: impaler: fusillade762: simplicimus: I've been upset since I found out I have a Homeland, instead of a country.

Should have gone with "Fatherland". At least that way I wouldn't get it confused with the Department of Human Services all the time.

Those were the days. I remember when I first heard the name. "Homeland? Seriously? Homeland?" Now it doesn't even register as the Orwellian name it is.

Are you guys retarded? Homeland, fatherland, motherland etc. have been around for thousands of years.

Why not a Brotherland, Sisterland, or Cousinland?


Well, Cousinland might work in the middle states.
 
2012-08-23 07:51:31 PM
It's a Catch-22. Psychologically speaking, the people who want these sorts of jobs are exactly the same people you don't want doing them.
 
2012-08-23 07:56:16 PM

NephilimNexus: It's a Catch-22. Psychologically speaking, the people who want these sorts of jobs are exactly the same people you don't want doing them.


That's exactly how I feel about doctors, astronauts, and cub scouts.
 
2012-08-24 09:22:20 AM
Anyone catch the nice bit about more lie-detectors?

Movie silver bullet BS -- one thing we know about polygraphy machines is that they don't "detect lies."

If a doctor used a procedure with the same error rate, they'd be committing malpractice.

But hey, if it makes people feel better instead of focusing on background investigations...
 
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