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(LA Times)   Middle-class median net worth rises and falls with the housing market. The hell you say   (latimes.com) divider line 80
    More: Obvious, rises and falls, national income, housing market, Middle-class income, middle class  
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2855 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2012 at 6:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 06:48:58 PM  
No shiat, Sherlock?
 
2012-08-22 06:49:52 PM  
LOLONEPERCENTPROBLEMS
 
2012-08-22 06:49:53 PM  
Well heck. Let's come up with a bunch of convoluted schemes to get people to put their one vehicle to actual wealth into the roulette wheel of the stock market!

Oh wait...
 
2012-08-22 06:50:41 PM  
And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

Thanks banking industry.

P.S. You suck for mixing home loans with fiduciary-betting, and you know it. Quit being dicks.
 
2012-08-22 06:51:11 PM  
"This is Ric Romero reporting. Lou?"
 
2012-08-22 06:52:13 PM  
fairly crappy barometer. for many if not most people this kind of wealth increase only nets you a larger tax bill.
 
2012-08-22 06:52:13 PM  

Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

Thanks banking industry.

P.S. You suck for mixing home loans with fiduciary-betting, and you know it. Quit being dicks.


Your margins are redonkulous. You can afford to take a profit cut. Your investors should invest in locals, not globals.
 
2012-08-22 06:53:30 PM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

Thanks banking industry.

P.S. You suck for mixing home loans with fiduciary-betting, and you know it. Quit being dicks.

Your margins are redonkulous. You can afford to take a profit cut. Your investors should invest in locals, not globals.


Please see "It's A Wonderful Life," okay? Thanks.
 
2012-08-22 07:02:15 PM  

Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.


How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.
 
2012-08-22 07:02:33 PM  
If the middle class want to be rich, they should diversify into multiple homes, just like McCain and Romney do.
 
2012-08-22 07:04:07 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.


Tax credits, man.

It's all about the credits.

;)

P.S. I call this one, "Money."
 
2012-08-22 07:06:16 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.


Thank you...
 
2012-08-22 07:09:53 PM  

relcec: for many if not most people this kind of wealth increase only nets you a larger tax bill.


Depends on how assessments are handled. I don't expect to see another reassessment for 20 years, the way things usually work around here. I expect the value of my property to double in the next 5-10. Maybe not double, but increase by a huge amount. But I bought cheap at the intersection of two already desirable neighborhoods and a third that's about to friggin' explode.

Indubitably: Tax credits, man.

It's all about the credits.


Psh. The amount I save on taxes with my mortgage isn't worth it. It's maybe 25% of what I pay in property taxes.
 
2012-08-22 07:10:48 PM  

Mentalenemasquad: Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.

Thank you...


"Yeah, renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity, and my savings are superior b/c I never succumb to the urge to spend..." he exasperated.
 
2012-08-22 07:11:43 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.


Unfortunately, an excessive valuation of that shoebox, made by a banker with a serious coke habit, is all that's propping the global economy up right now...
 
2012-08-22 07:12:08 PM  

t3knomanser: relcec: for many if not most people this kind of wealth increase only nets you a larger tax bill.

Depends on how assessments are handled. I don't expect to see another reassessment for 20 years, the way things usually work around here. I expect the value of my property to double in the next 5-10. Maybe not double, but increase by a huge amount. But I bought cheap at the intersection of two already desirable neighborhoods and a third that's about to friggin' explode.

Indubitably: Tax credits, man.

It's all about the credits.

Psh. The amount I save on taxes with my mortgage isn't worth it. It's maybe 25% of what I pay in property taxes.


Look at the second sentence.

Which word looks lonely?

Is it the credits?

Sigh.

Credits is everything.

;)
 
2012-08-22 07:14:02 PM  

Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity


Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.
 
2012-08-22 07:15:52 PM  

t3knomanser: relcec: for many if not most people this kind of wealth increase only nets you a larger tax bill.

Depends on how assessments are handled. I don't expect to see another reassessment for 20 years, the way things usually work around here. I expect the value of my property to double in the next 5-10. Maybe not double, but increase by a huge amount. But I bought cheap at the intersection of two already desirable neighborhoods and a third that's about to friggin' explode.

Indubitably: Tax credits, man.

It's all about the credits.

Psh. The amount I save on taxes with my mortgage isn't worth it. It's maybe 25% of what I pay in property taxes.


wait, we are talking about an increase in home valuations resulting in an increase in net worth, and you answer by saying your home won't have a reassessment for 2 decades so your taxes won't go up?
can you see why I am wondering why you are telling me about this?
 
2012-08-22 07:16:11 PM  

Indubitably: Credits is everything.


What friggin' credits? The joke of a first-time homebuyer's credit? Whoopdeedoo- $8K! That almost covers closing costs, and that only was available for a short time. What other magic credits are you getting that don't involve spending huge piles of cash to get them?
 
2012-08-22 07:16:32 PM  

t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.


I wouldn't know.
 
2012-08-22 07:17:18 PM  

Indubitably: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

I wouldn't know.


I will never retire.

I can't.
 
2012-08-22 07:18:03 PM  

relcec: we are talking about an increase in home valuations resulting in an increase in net worth, and you answer by saying your home won't have a reassessment for 2 decades so your taxes won't go up?


I'm confused by why you're confused. You said that an increase in home values means that you get a larger tax bill. I pointed out that it depends where you live- my increase in home value isn't going to net me a larger tax bill for a long time- either when I sell it or when I get reassessed, which ever comes first. Neither is happening on my planning horizon.
 
2012-08-22 07:18:06 PM  

t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.


depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.
 
2012-08-22 07:22:31 PM  

t3knomanser: relcec: we are talking about an increase in home valuations resulting in an increase in net worth, and you answer by saying your home won't have a reassessment for 2 decades so your taxes won't go up?

I'm confused by why you're confused. You said that an increase in home values means that you get a larger tax bill. I pointed out that it depends where you live- my increase in home value isn't going to net me a larger tax bill for a long time- either when I sell it or when I get reassessed, which ever comes first. Neither is happening on my planning horizon.


ok, then you don't get a higher tax bill, you just get asset appreciation that you can't tap into unless you want to create a liability. I said many if not most. I did not say t3knomanser will just get a higher tax bill.
 
2012-08-22 07:23:20 PM  

relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.


Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*
 
2012-08-22 07:23:44 PM  

Ed Willy: If the middle class want to be rich, they should diversify into multiple homes, just like McCain and Romney do.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-22 07:25:30 PM  

Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*


I'd love to meet you.
 
2012-08-22 07:25:57 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.


What? Please tell me about this magical "living below your means". How is that even possible?

/ Lives in a cheap apartment
 
2012-08-22 07:26:49 PM  

relcec: Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*

I'd love to meet you.


Will you play nice?
 
2012-08-22 07:27:59 PM  

Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*

I'd love to meet you.

Will you play nice?


no weapons? sure.
 
2012-08-22 07:29:20 PM  

relcec: Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*

I'd love to meet you.

Will you play nice?

no weapons? sure.


You still sound not nice.

WTF?>
 
2012-08-22 07:31:44 PM  
Well don't worry, the banks will be happy to rent all those houses back to us.
 
2012-08-22 07:32:59 PM  

Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*

I'd love to meet you.

Will you play nice?

no weapons? sure.

You still sound not nice.

WTF?>

 
2012-08-22 07:34:48 PM  

Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: Indubitably: relcec: t3knomanser: Indubitably: renting has gotten me really far financially, aka equity/liquidity

Renting was a fantastic way to build equity, for me. I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I'm in now if not for all the time I rented. Homes are okay storeholders of equity, mostly because they tend to hold value relative to inflation. That makes them a great retirement investment. Not so great on the short term, though.

depends where you live. austin has had a rental shortage for a while. renting will kill you.

Your lack of respect for adequate punctuation for explanation of what you mean concerns me. Other aspects of what you imply concern me too. I am coming to visit soon, therefore. We'll see what kind of hospitality you can provide, won't we? *wink*

I'd love to meet you.

Will you play nice?

no weapons? sure.

You still sound not nice.

WTF?>


eh?
I'm very sweet.
 
2012-08-22 07:35:18 PM  

Anal Tobacco Furnace: What? Please tell me about this magical "living below your means". How is that even possible?


I don't see how it's impossible, so I don't understand your question. 5$ t-shirts, keep a computer for 10 years, (same for a bike), no car, cook a lot, shop specials. What?

t3knomanser: Psh. The amount I save on taxes with my mortgage isn't worth it. It's maybe 25% of what I pay in property taxes.


Property.... taxes? If only there were a way to pay one person one amount and that person is bound by law to do repairs and justify rent increases?? So, Space Nutter and homeowner, eh?
 
2012-08-22 07:35:51 PM  
It's because people have been told housing is an investment and that it's "safe".

In reality it's not a great investment, overall it keeps with inflation unless you're in a bubble. It's not like you can cash it out quick.

It's going to be fun when the Boomers try and cash out of their houses in droves because they have nothing else.
 
2012-08-22 07:37:00 PM  

Anal Tobacco Furnace: Quantum Apostrophe: Indubitably: And if you don't own?

Well, then your even MORE farked.

How the hell do you figure that? I wisely chose to live below my means in a cheap apartment and saved the difference. Actual cash is worth much more than some notional worth tied in a pile of documents about a cardboard shoebox held together by toothpicks.

What? Please tell me about this magical "living below your means". How is that even possible?

/ Lives in a cheap apartment


Break it up, you two...greed is the great slime-engine that drives the economy, and we can't have a couple of hippies screwing everything up at this juncture.
 
2012-08-22 07:37:06 PM  

shortymac: It's because people have been told housing is an investment and that it's "safe".

In reality it's not a great investment, overall it keeps with inflation unless you're in a bubble. It's not like you can cash it out quick.

It's going to be fun when the Boomers try and cash out of their houses in droves because they have nothing else.


overpriced condo ftw.
 
2012-08-22 07:41:22 PM  
www.trbimg.com

I hope this is in inflation adjusted dollars otherwise the middle class is sliding into oblivion.
 
2012-08-22 07:47:42 PM  
In other news, asset values rise and fall. Homes were way over valued in 2005. None of that wealth was real, unless you had some pretty amazing timing.
 
2012-08-22 07:48:20 PM  
The money was never real in the first place, it was credit, not money. The credit contraction meant that very real losses occurred against bets made with fake money. Leverage was the issue, still is.

Return to honest accounting and the entire country is bankrupt. Keep with fraudulent accounting and credit never expands and we continue the trajectory were on which benefits some folks and really farks some others.

Housing market valuations don't mean anything, just like buying a stock at 100 seeing it go to 400, then back down to 200. Your net worth went from 400 to 200, but your real worth doubled. Even then, price doesn't matter until you sell .. so what's the problem?
 
2012-08-22 07:50:13 PM  
May I say again:

Thank you, banking industry, for you farkers have bankrupted the American mongo-economy and effectively broken the machine, you farking jerks. Way to go. You consolidated wealth even more. For waht? What? Broke?

P.S. Your bunkers cannot withstand an endless onslaught of bodies and neither can your gardens/yards/homes/farms/goods...prepare for the need to love one another unconditionally, for it's coming...

P.P.S. Mark. ;)
 
2012-08-22 07:53:05 PM  

muldoon: The money was never real in the first place, it was credit, not money. The credit contraction meant that very real losses occurred against bets made with fake money. Leverage was the issue, still is.


I'm not sure it was credit. it was asset appreciation. a very non liquid asset that was also the same old house or a similar one that you needed to keep living in so no real benefit of the appreciation was conferred unless you moved to a less desirable locality.
 
2012-08-22 07:59:41 PM  
i483.photobucket.com
I Am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise
 
2012-08-22 08:00:28 PM  

tzzhc4: I hope this is in inflation adjusted dollars otherwise the middle class is sliding into oblivion.


Did you read the bottom of that chart? Pew Research analysis of someone else's research. Wow. Just do the shiat yourself already.
 
2012-08-22 08:07:44 PM  

tzzhc4: [www.trbimg.com image 600x302]

I hope this is in inflation adjusted dollars otherwise the middle class is sliding into oblivion.


The top of the chart says it's in 2011 dollars.
 
2012-08-22 08:09:33 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: The top of the chart says it's in 2011 dollars.


Duh, missed that thanks :)
 
2012-08-22 08:10:17 PM  

relcec: muldoon: The money was never real in the first place, it was credit, not money. The credit contraction meant that very real losses occurred against bets made with fake money. Leverage was the issue, still is.

I'm not sure it was credit. it was asset appreciation. a very non liquid asset that was also the same old house or a similar one that you needed to keep living in so no real benefit of the appreciation was conferred unless you moved to a less desirable locality.


Houses don't make homes, Holmes.

You'd do wise to research home now.

Thank you, Scarypants.

I'll see you soon.

;)
 
2012-08-22 08:18:51 PM  

relcec: muldoon: The money was never real in the first place, it was credit, not money. The credit contraction meant that very real losses occurred against bets made with fake money. Leverage was the issue, still is.

I'm not sure it was credit. it was asset appreciation. a very non liquid asset that was also the same old house or a similar one that you needed to keep living in so no real benefit of the appreciation was conferred unless you moved to a less desirable locality.


How can you arrive at that conclusion? There was no massive increase in currency during 2003-2007, the rise of housing during that time was driven by an increase of credit. Anyone could get a loan, no money down, ninja documentation, low arm rates, loans were securitized and sold so the banks made whole had no cae in the world if they were valid after they were paid.

Do you not also believe that the price of college is not related to student loan debt?

Do you also not believe the rise in health care is not directly related to the flood of money from government?

If you remove the money, prices do not escalate outside of the normal inflation rate. The problem with credit expansion instead of money is that with credit you have more danger of loss when the tides turn.

Work the math on this, it's very simple round numbers .. the problem is very clear.

media3.washingtonpost.com
 
2012-08-22 08:26:08 PM  

Indubitably: No shiat, Sherlock?


If I didn't know better, I'd say you read the headline I submitted.
 
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