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(io9)   Ten myths about space travel. Article was submitted tomorrow and needs to be greenlit to avoid fatal time paradox   (io9.com) divider line 245
    More: Interesting, time paradox, spaceflights, Death from the Skies, faster than light, laws of physics, time dilations, asteroid belt, artificial gravity  
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9395 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Aug 2012 at 7:48 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 11:18:47 PM  

Fano: studebaker hoch: TyrantII

He's talking about 1G constant acceleration, which typically posits that you reach 99% the speed of light in ~1/2 year. Particles of matter hitting you at those speeds are very, very bad.

Really though, the answer is not to go close to C. So instead of a 4+1 year trip to the closest star, take a 40 year trip.

But then you run into problems of fuel.

I think the way we'll really do it when we do it is just build collossal ships, and plan on voyages lasting lifetimes or more.

That would get us to nearby stars eventually. Thing is, the ships have to be totally self sustaining over the long haul through the cold of space.

Also, you have to have an all-volunteer crew essentially signing up to serve life sentences on this thing. What sounds cool today might not be so much fun anymore when you're 20 years older.

And we can't speak for the children of the space voyagers, who did NOT sign up for the ride. They may very well revolt, and in a generation, turn that boat right back around again and come back home.

You'd have to make the ship so huge that there wouldn't be a feeling of being captive.

We don't feel stuck on Earth, not most of us, because it's huge and really nice.

We'd need some kind of ship that nobody would want to leave to return to Earth.

*snip*
Just make sure the climatrol works fine and it'll all work out.


To be honest, we should perfect the technology they tried to use in the 90's on that biosphere thing. That was supposed to be a test on how to build a self-supporting eco-system that could support an off-planet colony or outpost. If I remember correctly, it didn't do well. If we perfected that, space travel would definitely be more comfortable if you bring the farm, field, and forest with you.
 
2012-08-22 11:20:58 PM  
Snark Shark II:

Which is why people have proposed a system using hydrogen, which is the most abundant resource out there.
But yes, I forgot about the ramping up, but even at 99% you'll never close the gap and really get close to C at all. But it's all just semantics, I guess.


Drag and inefficient collection becomes a real problem. And yes, you'll never hit C since it's impossible. From earth the ship would appear to reach 99.9% or whatever, but on the ship you're only noticing the 1G acceleration, maybe, not really since you have nothing to reference. Plus from the ship light is still coming and going at C.

Relativity is fun!
 
2012-08-22 11:23:56 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: [static4.depositphotos.com image 850x566]

But but but the species and magic materials and like exploring and science! WAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Yes, we know. You hate space travel. Hate all you want, it's not going to help you live forever.
 
2012-08-22 11:25:58 PM  

TyrantII: Snark Shark II:

Which is why people have proposed a system using hydrogen, which is the most abundant resource out there.
But yes, I forgot about the ramping up, but even at 99% you'll never close the gap and really get close to C at all. But it's all just semantics, I guess.

Drag and inefficient collection becomes a real problem. And yes, you'll never hit C since it's impossible. From earth the ship would appear to reach 99.9% or whatever, but on the ship you're only noticing the 1G acceleration, maybe, not really since you have nothing to reference. Plus from the ship light is still coming and going at C.

Relativity is fun!


I love my copy of A Brief History of Time, lemme tell ya'.
 
2012-08-22 11:27:53 PM  

Snark Shark II: annnnnnd still an ignorant douche.


Wah wah wah. One day you'll realize what the limits of physics and engineering are, and you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation about what's possible and what's not concerning apes in tin cans hurtling in a deadly, radiation-blasted vacuum.

I'll bet you don't even know how big space actually is. You think it's the size of the TV you're watching your fantasies on. The level of your comments here is abysmal. You are ignorant and seem to revel in your ignorance. Only time will fix this.

Ten years, google yourself.

LoneWolf343: What a bullshiat list, especially that last one. "Duuuuuh, there is no such thing as radiation shielding!"


I know, it's like when people think we'll never live longer. "Duuuuh, there's no such thing as advanced medicine!"
 
2012-08-22 11:31:49 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation


Okay, I laughed.
 
2012-08-22 11:33:04 PM  
For the gravity still working, if you read the Star Trek Technical Manual (was really lonely in jr. high) it states that the gravity is generated by a spinning disk and it will still spin for a few hours after a power failure due to momentum providing constant, but steadily decreasing gravity. The foot note from Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach says it was mainly because CGI and live action was out of the budget so they were forced to come up with a technical reason to explain something caused by budget constraints.

Plus all of the ships in Star Trek and a few other series have inertia dampening fields. That's why people don't get splattered and the ship doesn't fly apart when they're doing 1,000,000 G maneuvers.

It's like the author didn't even try to understand how the SciFi media said things work and took them at face value, then said why it can't work with today's tech. They're just bashing on the couple of movies they saw. Which makes me say

dennisjudd.com
 
2012-08-22 11:35:37 PM  

costermonger: Quantum Apostrophe: you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation

Okay, I laughed.


Meet you on Mars in ten years? We'll have space ale in my condo and laugh about the good old days on Earth, with all that "fresh air", water, correct gravity, magnetosphere, and laugh at all those idiots that chose to stay behind while we eat yeast steaks underground! 

To Elon Musk! Huurah!
 
2012-08-22 11:37:46 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Snark Shark II: annnnnnd still an ignorant douche.

Wah wah wah. One day you'll realize what the limits of physics and engineering are, and you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation about what's possible and what's not concerning apes in tin cans hurtling in a deadly, radiation-blasted vacuum.

I'll bet you don't even know how big space actually is. You think it's the size of the TV you're watching your fantasies on. The level of your comments here is abysmal. You are ignorant and seem to revel in your ignorance. Only time will fix this.

Ten years, google yourself.

No, I know how big space is. But I also know that technology will gradually improve even if it takes thousands or millions of years. We'll most likely never break C but we'll find ways around it. But even then, slowly colonizing the galaxy ( which is 100 thousand light years in diameter), in 300,000 years going only 25% the speed of light will be easy.

We'll never have instantaneous travel except maybe in the far, far future, but we'll be able to still travel to the stars one day. No matter how much you say it's impossible, it doesn't make that true. It's not going to be impossible, just really hard and resource-intense.

Humans in Space
Colonizing the galaxy


Of course, you'll probably not even read that. You'll just rant about it as if it's a religion and you're the lone atheist. It's sad, really.

 
2012-08-22 11:42:03 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Quantum Apostrophe: [static4.depositphotos.com image 850x566]

But but but the species and magic materials and like exploring and science! WAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yes, we know. You hate space travel. Hate all you want, it's not going to help you live forever.


I hate the delusional religious, bordering on the blindly cult-like, fervor that people seem to cultivate about the (echo effect) fuuuuuture of the speeeecies!!! IN SPACE!!

Sending robots with cameras is one thing, thinking that colonizing an utter vacuum is just a bigger version of Columbus is another. It demonstrates a total lack of understanding about the scale of space, physics and technology. And a few other "y"s like biology and economy. But hey, one thing at a time.

I can't make a screaming, vomiting baby eat. You have to decide to stop screaming and eat. You can chose to revel in your ignorance and stay at the level of a hand-waving wide-eyed daydreamer, or you can try to engage your farking brain cells and educate yourself.

Your move.
 
2012-08-22 11:42:21 PM  

Snark Shark II: Quantum Apostrophe: Snark Shark II: annnnnnd still an ignorant douche.

Wah wah wah. One day you'll realize what the limits of physics and engineering are, and you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation about what's possible and what's not concerning apes in tin cans hurtling in a deadly, radiation-blasted vacuum.

I'll bet you don't even know how big space actually is. You think it's the size of the TV you're watching your fantasies on. The level of your comments here is abysmal. You are ignorant and seem to revel in your ignorance. Only time will fix this.

Ten years, google yourself.

No, I know how big space is. But I also know that technology will gradually improve even if it takes thousands or millions of years. We'll most likely never break C but we'll find ways around it. But even then, slowly colonizing the galaxy ( which is 100 thousand light years in diameter), in 300,000 years going only 25% the speed of light will be easy.

We'll never have instantaneous travel except maybe in the far, far future, but we'll be able to still travel to the stars one day. No matter how much you say it's impossible, it doesn't make that true. It's not going to be impossible, just really hard and resource-intense.

Humans in Space
Colonizing the galaxy

Of course, you'll probably not even read that. You'll just rant about it as if it's a religion and you're the lone atheist. It's sad, really.


Blah, sorry ten to a hundred million years. Either way it's still possible. more possible than " living forever"
 
2012-08-22 11:43:23 PM  
Also, 2001 had it wrong on the spinning cylinder in the ship. The cylinder in the ship will want to spin the ship requiring lots of propellant burns to correct itself. The only movie that got it right was Red Planet with a ship with 2 counter rotating wheels. If you're going to quote Phil Blait, at least read his very, very good Bad Astronomy movie reviews when he's written articles exactly about what you're writing an article about.
 
2012-08-22 11:43:26 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ed Grubermann: Quantum Apostrophe: [static4.depositphotos.com image 850x566]

But but but the species and magic materials and like exploring and science! WAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yes, we know. You hate space travel. Hate all you want, it's not going to help you live forever.

I hate the delusional religious, bordering on the blindly cult-like, fervor that people seem to cultivate about the (echo effect) fuuuuuture of the speeeecies!!! IN SPACE!!

Sending robots with cameras is one thing, thinking that colonizing an utter vacuum is just a bigger version of Columbus is another. It demonstrates a total lack of understanding about the scale of space, physics and technology. And a few other "y"s like biology and economy. But hey, one thing at a time.

I can't make a screaming, vomiting baby eat. You have to decide to stop screaming and eat. You can chose to revel in your ignorance and stay at the level of a hand-waving wide-eyed daydreamer, or you can try to engage your farking brain cells and educate yourself.

Your move.



"You'll just rant about it as if it's a religion and you're the lone atheist. It's sad, really."

Wow. I was right on target.
 
2012-08-22 11:44:31 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Snark Shark II: annnnnnd still an ignorant douche.

Wah wah wah. One day you'll realize what the limits of physics and engineering are, and you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation about what's possible and what's not concerning apes in tin cans hurtling in a deadly, radiation-blasted vacuum.

I'll bet you don't even know how big space actually is. You think it's the size of the TV you're watching your fantasies on. The level of your comments here is abysmal. You are ignorant and seem to revel in your ignorance. Only time will fix this.

Ten years, google yourself.

LoneWolf343: What a bullshiat list, especially that last one. "Duuuuuh, there is no such thing as radiation shielding!"

I know, it's like when people think we'll never live longer. "Duuuuh, there's no such thing as advanced medicine!"


What's really dumb about the statement isn't that it isn't an assumption of eventual progress, but radiation shielding is available now. Lead is the most common form of it, but many other substances can absorb or reflect radiation. It's only in every manned spacecraft ever made, after all.
 
2012-08-22 11:47:04 PM  

Snark Shark II: Quantum Apostrophe: Snark Shark II: annnnnnd still an ignorant douche.

Wah wah wah. One day you'll realize what the limits of physics and engineering are, and you'll be able to engage in an adult conversation about what's possible and what's not concerning apes in tin cans hurtling in a deadly, radiation-blasted vacuum.

I'll bet you don't even know how big space actually is. You think it's the size of the TV you're watching your fantasies on. The level of your comments here is abysmal. You are ignorant and seem to revel in your ignorance. Only time will fix this.

Ten years, google yourself.

No, I know how big space is. But I also know that technology will gradually improve even if it takes thousands or millions of years. We'll most likely never break C but we'll find ways around it. But even then, slowly colonizing the galaxy ( which is 100 thousand light years in diameter), in 300,000 years going only 25% the speed of light will be easy.

We'll never have instantaneous travel except maybe in the far, far future, but we'll be able to still travel to the stars one day. No matter how much you say it's impossible, it doesn't make that true. It's not going to be impossible, just really hard and resource-intense.

Humans in Space
Colonizing the galaxy

Of course, you'll probably not even read that. You'll just rant about it as if it's a religion and you're the lone atheist. It's sad, really.


Ladies and gentlemen, the Chick Tract of the Space Nutter True Believer.

You actually believe this shiat. How old are you? My mainframe now revised it down to 12. It could be just because my cat just shat its litter box, but I think it's because your PDF is no different from what my cat just did.

Ten years, kid. We'll all still be here, your space fantasies will be as forgotten as the Japanese Space Hotel of 1997 and OTRAG.

Promise me you'll Google yourself in ten years?
 
2012-08-22 11:47:39 PM  

Cinaed: Risen Empire

Not 'great', but has a more interesting take on technology and science.


I loved those books. Wish he'd come out with a third one, it didn't seem like it was finished yet. Also "Evolution's Darling" by the same author is quite good.


pion: fusillade762: And a fun fact: There was no FTL in the Firefly universe.

Nor in Alastair Reynold's books. You should check them out of your local library.

\plug
\\Seriously, visit your local library.


Loves me some Reynolds. And as a matter of fact I did get most of his books from the library.

Libraries rule.


maxheck: I just have to ask...

Quantum Apostrophe

Why exactly are you so pissed off re: space exploration.

Because just your posts on a semi-obscure discussion board lead me to believe that you are incredibly wound up against it. 

What the hell happened?


A space explorer raped his dog.
 
2012-08-22 11:50:44 PM  

fusillade762: A space explorer raped his dog.


Legitimate rape or sweet-sweet altar boy rape?
 
2012-08-22 11:54:36 PM  

LoneWolf343: What's really dumb about the statement isn't that it isn't an assumption of eventual progress, but radiation shielding is available now. Lead is the most common form of it, but many other substances can absorb or reflect radiation. It's only in every manned spacecraft ever made, after all.


Really? So we haven't extended our life span at all? And you think our pitiful shielding will scale to the Star Trek levels you'll need? Wise up, chump. Why don't you find out how thin the walls of the LEM were, and what the long terms effects of being in the ISS are. Go ahead.

Snark Shark II: Wow. I was right on target.


Gloat all you want. It's OK. That's what being 12 is for. 

One day, you will know enough facts and have experienced enough reality, and your brain will in one fell swoop conclude "wait a minute, this makes no sense whatsoever. It never did! IT NEVER DID! AHHHHHHHH".

Promise me you'll Google yourself in ten years? Surely if your faith is strong, you have nothing to worry about?
 
2012-08-22 11:55:16 PM  

lohphat: fusillade762: A space explorer raped his dog.

Legitimate rape or sweet-sweet altar boy rape?


Which kind can the brain abort?
 
2012-08-22 11:59:31 PM  

Snark Shark II: Blah, sorry ten to a hundred million years. Either way it's still possible. more possible than " living forever"


But the species will go on forever, right? In magical fairy-tale space ships where the hero can use his enormous space penis to shoot light-years long streams of sperm across the universe. Right?
 
2012-08-23 12:07:52 AM  
fusillade762:

Cinaed: Risen Empire

Not 'great', but has a more interesting take on technology and science.

I loved those books. Wish he'd come out with a third one, it didn't seem like it was finished yet. Also "Evolution's Darling" by the same author is quite good.


pion: fusillade762: And a fun fact: There was no FTL in the Firefly universe.

Nor in Alastair Reynold's books. You should check them out of your local library.

\plug
\\Seriously, visit your local library.

Loves me some Reynolds. And as a matter of fact I did get most of his books from the library.

Libraries rule.


maxheck: I just have to ask...

Quantum Apostrophe

Why exactly are you so pissed off re: space exploration.

Because just your posts on a semi-obscure discussion board lead me to believe that you are incredibly wound up against it.


Why that over, say...

Why exactly. ?

What the hell happened?

A space explorer raped his dog.
 
2012-08-23 12:11:45 AM  

Kittypie070: [points, laughs at QA]

Long after I've shuffled off this mortal coil and am out enjoying the entire Universe in an altered state of being that's fit for eternity, YOU will still be trapped in the ever-decaying meat.


Holy crap are you mentally ill.
 
2012-08-23 12:15:20 AM  
Well, we could imagine a world where where we all live forever...

And then turn back and curl untu our bellies
 
2012-08-23 12:24:30 AM  
So I take it, Quantum apostrophe is just Bevets in drag? His arguments certainly smack of the same kind of non-thinking, poorly educated failure to reason beyond his own preconceptions of reality. Please QA, go back to being Bevets, you're much more entertaining that way and the creationist troll cow isn't quite milked dry even now. Admittedly a lot of users have your other sock puppets on their ignore lists, but still you were always at your best when you were clearly batshait crazy instead of merely trying to claim that everyone else is ahem, a space nutter.
 
2012-08-23 12:28:41 AM  

lohphat: TyrantII: It be pretty arrogant to think we understand all physics and quantum mechanics as is now. We're only starting to get a grasp on the building blocks of particles and what entanglement means in practical use terms.

Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop.

We know we don't know everything, but we're doing pretty well if we can see all the way to the microwave background glow of the big bang and find the Higgs.

Are there bigger/smaller structures? Most probably.
Are there things we don't understand? Of course.
Nature of light and it's max speed? We've pretty well hammered that one out from a lot of angles. It would take a new discovery of something never before encountered in all the observations and experimentations we've done up until now.


There are actually several possible shortcut that modern physics allows for that may eventually allow interstellar travel. they will doubtless require huge amounts of energy to use, and none of them are going to happen within the next 1000 years, but the possibility exists. here are a couple of examples:

Quantum physics: there is an extremely small chance that, at any time, any particle may disappear from where it is and appear somewhere else in the universe instantly. If we can learn to make this happen at will, and control where they appear this would allow instant travel anywhere.

String Theory: String theory postulates that there are as many as 26 dimensions. If we can figure out how to move in these extra dimensions the trip could be much shorter. The shortest distance between any 2 points is a straight line, if we can only move in 3 of the 26 dimensions at a time there are 15600 straight lines to chose from. If we figure out how to move freely in any of them at the same time there are 4.03x10^26 straight lines to chose from. Some of those lines are gonna be real short, so even though we cannot exceed the speed of light in those dimensions either, we still get there faster than we can in these 3 dimensions.
 
2012-08-23 12:30:03 AM  

maxheck: Well, we could imagine a world where where we all live forever...

And then turn back and curl untu our bellies


Why live at all? Oh my, how ever did people live when they thought the earth was the center of the universe and we all lived in a crystal ball? How did people survive the drama of thinking the Milky Way was the universe?

What the fark do you need a vacuum to justify your life for? What new kind of mental illness is this?

Is your life so pathetic, so useless, you only see yourself as a Duggar for creating space apes?

What religion is this?

What terrifies you so much about life that you don't want more of it, yet you think you can speak for the whole species and condemn it to a harsh, short existence on radiation-blasted dead rocks in a vacuum?

You gots issues, man. You better hope Elon Musk provides you with Medical Plus on Mars. You're gonna need it. 

Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.
 
2012-08-23 12:32:54 AM  

Snark Shark II: TyrantII: studebaker hoch: Solution to zero G problem:

Build a spacecraft with the axis of thrust normal to the floors.

Accelerate at 1 G half way to wherever you're going.

At the midpoint, cut the engines, briefly enter zero G, turn the ship around so it's pointing back the way you came.

Accelerate again at 1 G, only now you're slowing down.

Once you arrive at your destination you're back in zero G but you had gravity the whole way there.

If you guys need any other problems solved, I'm here all night.

How do you solve particles hitting you at close to C? Not sure about you, but that give me a very bad day.

acceleration to 1 G is not close to C.


G is almost exactly the same as C. It just has a little dash in it.
 
2012-08-23 12:41:05 AM  
Quantum Apostrophe:


>i>maxheck: Well, we could imagine a world where where we all live forever...

And then turn back and curl untu our bellies

Why live at all? Oh my, how ever did people live when they thought the earth was the center of the universe and we all lived in a crystal ball? How did people survive the drama of thinking the Milky Way was the universe?

What the fark do you need a vacuum to justify your life for? What new kind of mental illness is this?

Is your life so pathetic, so useless, you only see yourself as a Duggar for creating space apes?

What religion is this?

What terrifies you so much about life that you don't want more of it, yet you think you can speak for the whole species and condemn it to a harsh, short existence on radiation-blasted dead rocks in a vacuum?

You gots issues, man. You better hope Elon Musk provides you with Medical Plus on Mars. You're gonna need it.

It's more an observational, sympathetic as in "poor guy!" thing.. But you seem to be obsessively inclined to HAVE TO be a not-entirely-useful whiner in every space related thread.

It's like, why? What or who pissed in your Cheerios?
Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.

I haven't seen anyone be wound up about your nuttery.

You're here EVERY TIME.

No one seems to be pissed off about your obsession.

Why?
 
2012-08-23 12:43:15 AM  
And say we did it.

Say our giant megacruiser pulls into orbit around a somewhat-reasonable-looking Earth-like planet. Unlikely as f*ck but just say we find one a few dozen generations away.

If there's oxygen in the atmosphere, that means there's massive biosphere down there.

What then? Are you really going to dare go down to the surface? Every microbe is alien. Every bacteria, every virus, every plant and animal is something you have absolutely no defense against. You will probably die in days if not hours by something incredibly nasty. But not before you let your own germs out into an ecosystem that has never seen anything like YOU before. Hello, invasive species?

We should never go anywhere *near* another planet with any life on it at all. Or if we ever did, acclimate very carefully, if it could even be done.

Probably why aliens never land here. It would be suicide.

Planet hopping is sci-fi fantasy.

We have a whole Solar system we can build out. Moon, Mars, asteroids, and more.

We can stink it up to smell just like us and just stay home.
 
2012-08-23 12:49:49 AM  

Memoryalpha: So I take it, Quantum apostrophe is just Bevets in drag? His arguments certainly smack of the same kind of non-thinking, poorly educated failure to reason beyond his own preconceptions of reality. Please QA, go back to being Bevets, you're much more entertaining that way and the creationist troll cow isn't quite milked dry even now. Admittedly a lot of users have your other sock puppets on their ignore lists, but still you were always at your best when you were clearly batshait crazy instead of merely trying to claim that everyone else is ahem, a space nutter.


It's funny. He can sit there and tell us that we've advanced in medical knowledge over the centuries and are living longer and that we'll live even longer in the future, but he can't seem to accept that same change could easily happen with space exploration due to advances in technology, our understanding of physics and advances in our knowledge of space.

Quantum Apostrophe: We've also extended our youth period. People get married later and have fun longer.

*YOU* also enjoy a longer and healthier life than if you had been born 200 years ago... Surely this is obvious? YOU are living an extended life span!



200 years ago we couldn't get a machine off the ground with us in it. Now we have manned space flight. But of course he selectively ignores that.

Am I saying that I'm going to get the chance to go live on Mars or some other space colony? Not bloody likely, but eventually it could be possible.
 
2012-08-23 12:50:59 AM  

maxheck: Quantum Apostrophe:


>i>maxheck: Well, we could imagine a world where where we all live forever...

And then turn back and curl untu our bellies

Why live at all? Oh my, how ever did people live when they thought the earth was the center of the universe and we all lived in a crystal ball? How did people survive the drama of thinking the Milky Way was the universe?

What the fark do you need a vacuum to justify your life for? What new kind of mental illness is this?

Is your life so pathetic, so useless, you only see yourself as a Duggar for creating space apes?

What religion is this?

What terrifies you so much about life that you don't want more of it, yet you think you can speak for the whole species and condemn it to a harsh, short existence on radiation-blasted dead rocks in a vacuum?

You gots issues, man. You better hope Elon Musk provides you with Medical Plus on Mars. You're gonna need it.

It's more an observational, sympathetic as in "poor guy!" thing.. But you seem to be obsessively inclined to HAVE TO be a not-entirely-useful whiner in every space related thread.

It's like, why? What or who pissed in your Cheerios?
Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.

I haven't seen anyone be wound up about your nuttery.

You're here EVERY TIME.

No one seems to be pissed off about your obsession.

Why?


OK, you got me. I'm actually from the future, where humanity has colonized the entire universe and the universe is one big reality show and Skrillex is the best musician.

I've been sent here to prevent that from happening. Since it's obvious we have all the energy and materials and technology to colonize the universe tomorrow morning, only I can stop humanity's tragic destiny with my posts!

But that has to stay secret between you and me. Do I have your cooperation? If you help me, I'll give you the blueprints for a space elevator.
 
2012-08-23 12:55:58 AM  

rickycal78: 200 years ago we couldn't get a machine off the ground with us in it. Now we have manned space flight. But of course he selectively ignores that.


And you selectively choose to believe that means anything is possible, while ignoring all the physics and engineering that went into it.

Oh, and 200 years ago?

upload.wikimedia.org

"Étienne Montgolfier was the first human to lift off the earth, making at least one tethered flight from the yard of the Réveillon workshop in the Faubourg Saint-Antoine. It was most likely on October 15, 1783."

Ignorance is bliss, eh?
 
2012-08-23 12:57:50 AM  
The entire article was written and then greenlighted, just to troll QA, wasn't it?
 
2012-08-23 12:58:11 AM  

studebaker hoch: We have a whole Solar system we can build out. Moon, Mars, asteroids, and more.


Except ....
 
2012-08-23 12:59:25 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: rickycal78: 200 years ago we couldn't get a machine off the ground with us in it. Now we have manned space flight. But of course he selectively ignores that.

And you selectively choose to believe that means anything is possible, while ignoring all the physics and engineering that went into it.

Oh, and 200 years ago?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 410x600]

"Étienne Montgolfier was the first human to lift off the earth, making at least one tethered flight from the yard of the Réveillon workshop in the Faubourg Saint-Antoine. It was most likely on October 15, 1783."

Ignorance is bliss, eh?


You selectively ignored the part about a machine with us in it. Last I checked a balloon isn't really a machine.
And you also selectively ignored the part of my post where I mentioned possible future advances in physics.

Are you trying to say that we can advance our knowledge in medicine, but not in physics?
 
2012-08-23 01:05:20 AM  
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show, I should really just relax"
 
2012-08-23 01:14:58 AM  
RoyBatty

studebaker hoch: We have a whole Solar system we can build out. Moon, Mars, asteroids, and more.

Except ....


Detroit, I know.

/Attempt no layover there.
 
2012-08-23 01:17:09 AM  

fusillade762: #11 - Gravity is the same (1 G) on every planet.

And a fun fact: There was no FTL in the Firefly universe.


There must have been some form of FTL to get the original colonists from Earth That Was to their new solar system. Unless they arrived on a generational ship, or in some form of suspended animation. Or perhaps they travelled via a stable wormhole, some sort of portal where the mechanism was in our solar system so the trip would be one way unless they built a similar portal on the other side.
 
2012-08-23 01:17:52 AM  

cranked: If you're wondering how he eats and breathes And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show, I should really just relax"


I am appalled, APPALLED, at the fiction in science fiction. It's like they're not even trying to be real.

/sarcasm
 
2012-08-23 01:21:01 AM  

rickycal78: You selectively ignored the part about a machine with us in it. Last I checked a balloon isn't really a machine.


Yeah yeah yeah. Define it any way you want. You're still wrong. It's an object that uses forces to do what we want them to do. It's as much a machine as a lever or a fulcrum, don't be an obstinate ass. You were wrong. Period.

rickycal78: And you also selectively ignored the part of my post where I mentioned possible future advances in physics.


Well sure, you have a faith that there's a "possible" advance in physics, which is really just saying that physics as we know it pretty much kills all the space follies right here, right now.

What if these advances in physics really don't help at all? Is that possible too? What if life extension becomes easier, but not space travel, with the new physics? Will you act like this:

farm8.staticflickr.com

rickycal78: Are you trying to say that we can advance our knowledge in medicine, but not in physics?


Well, given that we have an excellent knowledge of physics, we would have a pretty good idea of what to look for... What would that be?

Unless you have something specific in mind, your justification could be used for anything at all. Santa Claus, elves, transubstantiation, telepathy, these are all possible with "future advances in physics". So why the focus on space colonization? I'll tell you: it's colonial imagery that's part of our culture. It makes no sense though.

It never did. Glorification of endless resource gobbing, Cold War paranoia, Space Age posters, sci-fi. You have to work very hard to get rid of all this seductive imagery.

The reality about space is bleak my friend. Why not make better living arrangements right here, with the physics we know, instead of waiting in paralyzed fear for "possible" physics? 

That being said, you are essentially correct, IF there was such a breakthrough, and by some coincidence it allowed for all the materials and energy sources you'd need for all these space fantasies, sure, I'd be a believer.

Now you're a big boy, tell me, what do you realistically assume the odds are for that? Honestly. That's a pretty massive leap of faith, that these "possible" breakthroughs would magically allow all these space fantasies... Do you believe the universe was designed to fulfill this fantasy for us?

That the universe is taunting us with another Periodic Table of the Elements, this one with much stronger and harder elements? Or that there are other forces just waiting there for us to use to colonize the universe?

Do tell.  It's not science, it's faith. You can disguise it as science and fool your friends, but it's faith.
 
2012-08-23 01:22:18 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.


Good lord, you're a pissy little poster, aren't you?

Did some astrophysicist bang your wife or something?
 
2012-08-23 01:23:36 AM  

tomcatadam: Quantum Apostrophe: Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.

Good lord, you're a pissy little poster, aren't you?

Did some astrophysicist bang your wife or something?


I think space lured him into a van and touched him in a naughty place.
 
2012-08-23 01:24:04 AM  

studebaker hoch: RoyBatty

studebaker hoch: We have a whole Solar system we can build out. Moon, Mars, asteroids, and more.

Except ....

Detroit, I know.

/Attempt no layover there.


Very nice. Well played. Thank you.
 
2012-08-23 01:31:21 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Well sure, you have a faith that there's a "possible" advance in physics, which is really just saying that physics as we know it pretty much kills all the space follies right here, right now.

What if these advances in physics really don't help at all? Is that possible too? What if life extension becomes easier, but not space travel, with the new physics? Will you act like this:


Much like there's been no hide of evidence for FTL phenomenon beyond mathematical conjecture, nobody has ever seen any indefinitely regenerating life-forms either. Both are wishful fantasies. Yeah, there's no difference between atoms of the same atomic number, but yet, here we are degenerating anyway. Chemistry has been the same for billions of years and immortal life hasn't happened so far, most likely never will either.
 
2012-08-23 01:31:34 AM  
This book is far better than TFA

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-08-23 01:32:55 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Do tell. It's not science, it's faith. You can disguise it as science and fool your friends, but it's faith.


Like your faith that we'll advance in medical knowledge enough to not only live longer, but to not be some decrepit looking barely functional mummy at an advanced age.

We can argue in circles all day but the fact remains that our knowledge in varied fields like medicine and physics is increasing. You trying to state that one is possible but not the other is simply ignorance.

Then again I know full well I'm not going to see space colonization or manned interplanetary travel, hell my grandkids may not even see it. Whereas you seem to think you'll be able to reap the benefits of some magical medical discovery that will allow you to live a substantially longer life and actually be able to enjoy those extra years.

So which one of us is delusional?
 
2012-08-23 01:40:30 AM  
Man, you guys really shouldn't feed QA. He's grumpy enough as it is! Its okay QA, you're bitter because you're old and going to die one day. We get it.
 
2012-08-23 01:41:57 AM  

tomcatadam: Quantum Apostrophe: Ten years. Google yourself. See if you still believe this childish dreck.

Good lord, you're a pissy little poster, aren't you?

Did some astrophysicist bang your wife or something?


The biggest problem facing humanity at this point is escapist fantasy masquerading as facts. Whether it's full-on religious nutjobs in politics, or people who should know better, wasting brain power and time, and making OTHER people waste time, detracts from real, actual problems facing real people alive right now.

Thinking that humanity will just magically whisk itself away from this "rock" and start over (on some other rock, presumably), is just as escapist, delusional and religious as a Born Again waiting for Rapture, or a Mormon waiting for Kolob.

Stop wasting that time. Use what time you have here and what brains you have to solve real problems here, now. There is plenty to do and learn right now, you don't need to wait for "possible" physics. 

I get it. There's a lot of strife on Earth. Lots of people. We're running out of the magic go-juice that made the last ~150 years what they were. We are now gnawing away at the table scraps, strip mining an entire province in my country to feed a maniacal need to keep this insane society going.

I get that. But thinking we'll just pluck oilsteroids (I just made that up, pretty funny, eh) out of the sky with magical technology so you can go back to making kids in the suburbs is not the answer.

Making people live longer just might give them the incentive to THINK LONG TERM about the consequences of what they do.

I may just be daydreaming too. Who knows. At least I don't require all kinds of "possibles" and "maybes". We already live longer than before. 

We don't sleep more than before though. What the hell am I still doing up? Does this have anything to do with this 1L of Coke I just drank? Or the half tub of ice cream?
 
2012-08-23 01:46:37 AM  

rickycal78: Like your faith that we'll advance in medical knowledge enough to not only live longer, but to not be some decrepit looking barely functional mummy at an advanced age.


Why is that unreasonable? Are the symptoms of aging hard-coded in matter? Does a carbon atom in a cat "know" it has to be old at 14, but pubescent in a human?

It's a pattern. That's all. There's no reason for any of the symptoms of aging, it's just that we take them for granted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alagebrium

rickycal78: So which one of us is delusional?


The one who ignores that we already extended our lifespan. The one who thinks we need "new physics" to develop anti-aging. We don't. We need more math to understand how matter organizes itself into life.

I believe this to be much harder than building larger rockets. Whatever happened to "we chose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard"?

Hm?
 
2012-08-23 01:46:42 AM  

TyrantII: Truth be told nBSG did FTL better with their instantaneous jumps. If you have the power to control space-time, it seems warping space would be easy and instantaneous. You wouldn't "travel" like in Trek. But the problem is knowing where and what you're jumping into. You could jump across the universe, but good luck that you don't jump into a sun accidentally. Better to take smaller jumps with coordinates precisely plotted out.


Not to mention their FTL system allowed for the best "fark yeah" moment of the entire series when they pulled out the Adama Maneuver.

www.cinemaspy.com
 
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