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(ABC)   Assisted suicide legalization activist can't win for losing   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 50
    More: Sad, High Court judges, locked-in syndrome, Wiltshire  
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4644 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2012 at 5:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 12:14:04 PM
That is indeed a sad story. Perhaps not in the way that subby meant.
 
2012-08-22 12:19:30 PM

Mudgen: That is indeed a sad story. Perhaps not in the way that subby meant.


I don't think I'll ever get the image of his face as he received the ruling out of my mind.

"Care, Not Killing?" Yeah, farking right. We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood. That group sounds as much for caring about other people as pro-lifers do about babies who have already been born.
 
2012-08-22 12:50:14 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Mudgen: That is indeed a sad story. Perhaps not in the way that subby meant.

I don't think I'll ever get the image of his face as he received the ruling out of my mind.

"Care, Not Killing?" Yeah, farking right. We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood. That group sounds as much for caring about other people as pro-lifers do about babies who have already been born.


Cruelty and suffering

/god demands it
 
2012-08-22 02:07:28 PM
I don't really understand why we don't have the right to have someone help painlessly kill ourselves. I have a brother who is a two time cancer survivor and is now suffering from bone necrosis which will require multiple joint replacements. He also suffers from intense chronic pain from massive nerve damage through his ordeal. There have been times when he was in so much pain, he put a pistol in his mouth and nearly made the decision to pull the trigger.

Although he seems to be in good spirits now with the possibility of maybe having a mobile life after the joint replacements with good pain management, I really would not be happy if his health continued to deteriorate and I'd have to slowly watch him perish, knowing he was in complete agony, all the while him wishing for death.

I guess that's the humane thing to do.
 
2012-08-22 02:14:51 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.



Pretty much this.
 
2012-08-22 02:42:44 PM

downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.


100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.
 
2012-08-22 04:26:26 PM

impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.



Agreed.  I mean, this is such a clear cut case.  I'm not necessarily for allowing a doctor to provide assisted suicide to someone that's merely depressed.  But come on, this guy didn't have a life.  He had worse than a life... he was living in hell for 7 years.
 
2012-08-22 04:49:57 PM

Cythraul: There have been times when he was in so much pain, he put a pistol in his mouth and nearly made the decision to pull the trigger.


Yet he didn't. Something was telling him to stay alive.
 
2012-08-22 05:37:45 PM
Some people are proactive, some people would rather feel sorry for themselves. It's obvious that Tony Nicklinson is the latter.

Gary Parkinson suffers from locked-in, however this has not stopped his career in football coaching.

Jean-Dominique Bauby wrote The Diving Bell and The Butterfly.

If Tony was truly in SUCH DIRE need of dying, then his family would have just -done- it. Why the fark do you need a court ruling?

And from the sounds of it, that's exactly what happened. The court ruling was less than a week ago, and he suddenly dies? Right.
 
2012-08-22 05:38:16 PM
It's a shame to hear about this guy, everything he had to go through. It reminds me of this film:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-22 05:42:19 PM

Rustblade: Some people are proactive, some people would rather feel sorry for themselves. It's obvious that Tony Nicklinson is the latter.

Gary Parkinson suffers from locked-in, however this has not stopped his career in football coaching.

Jean-Dominique Bauby wrote The Diving Bell and The Butterfly.

If Tony was truly in SUCH DIRE need of dying, then his family would have just -done- it. Why the fark do you need a court ruling?

And from the sounds of it, that's exactly what happened. The court ruling was less than a week ago, and he suddenly dies? Right.


Yes, because I'm sure he wanted his family to risk prosecution after he died. I know I'd die happy knowing my family was facing an extended court battle to keep them out of jail.
 
2012-08-22 05:42:28 PM
I'll never understand why people don't have the choice to end their life in a secure manner. Care Not Killing can go suck my dick
 
2012-08-22 05:42:36 PM
If they can push a button it's them killing themselves and not the person who set up the contraption or whatever. May as well call them a contractor.
 
2012-08-22 05:48:24 PM
Pshaw, people like this idiot think they can just do whatever they wish with their own body? That's rich. The government owns your ass. You will suffer and you will like it, for society.
 
2012-08-22 05:50:41 PM

Cythraul: I don't really understand why we don't have the right to have someone help painlessly kill ourselves. I have a brother who is a two time cancer survivor and is now suffering from bone necrosis which will require multiple joint replacements. He also suffers from intense chronic pain from massive nerve damage through his ordeal. There have been times when he was in so much pain, he put a pistol in his mouth and nearly made the decision to pull the trigger.

Although he seems to be in good spirits now with the possibility of maybe having a mobile life after the joint replacements with good pain management, I really would not be happy if his health continued to deteriorate and I'd have to slowly watch him perish, knowing he was in complete agony, all the while him wishing for death.

I guess that's the humane thing to do.


Your anecdote sums up why I'm not completely sold about "assisted suicide" being made legal.

Sometimes things get better. Imagine if you terminated a life and then some medical discovery is made soon after or something like that. You just never know.
 
2012-08-22 06:10:14 PM

jaylectricity: Yet he didn't. Something was telling him to stay alive.


Yeah. Busybodies who should mind their own damned business once in a while.
 
2012-08-22 06:10:25 PM

brapbrapbrap: Cythraul: I don't really understand why we don't have the right to have someone help painlessly kill ourselves. I have a brother who is a two time cancer survivor and is now suffering from bone necrosis which will require multiple joint replacements. He also suffers from intense chronic pain from massive nerve damage through his ordeal. There have been times when he was in so much pain, he put a pistol in his mouth and nearly made the decision to pull the trigger.

Although he seems to be in good spirits now with the possibility of maybe having a mobile life after the joint replacements with good pain management, I really would not be happy if his health continued to deteriorate and I'd have to slowly watch him perish, knowing he was in complete agony, all the while him wishing for death.

I guess that's the humane thing to do.

Your anecdote sums up why I'm not completely sold about "assisted suicide" being made legal.

Sometimes things get better. Imagine if you terminated a life and then some medical discovery is made soon after or something like that. You just never know.


The point is, it should be their decision. The future is uncertain. For each case where it turns around and they get better, there are 10 who they suffered to their last moments. That's fine when that's what they wanted, but some don't want to take that gable, and they shouldn't be forced to.

/That said, we should do our best to always have a mechanism in place where the patient hits the button themselves, so to speak, without another person's actions being needed. Cythraul's brother was able to go up to the line and decide against suicide because the choice was in his hands. Having another person in the chain introduces worries (about wasting their time, or being seen as indecisive, or whatever else) which while small, may be just enough to sway a person to go through with a suicide after all the setup has been made. It should be doable, even for the paralyzed. Even if they just communicate by blinks, we can setup a system that responds to that (with a camera and a computer-controlled drip).
 
2012-08-22 06:10:49 PM
Very sad. We show more mercy/compassion to sick dogs than each other.
 
2012-08-22 06:13:17 PM

ZoeNekros: Even if they just communicate by blinks, we can setup a system that responds to that (with a camera and a computer-controlled drip).


Try and go two minutes without blinking. You might just want to rethink that one.
 
2012-08-22 06:16:01 PM

brapbrapbrap: Cythraul: I don't really understand why we don't have the right to have someone help painlessly kill ourselves. I have a brother who is a two time cancer survivor and is now suffering from bone necrosis which will require multiple joint replacements. He also suffers from intense chronic pain from massive nerve damage through his ordeal. There have been times when he was in so much pain, he put a pistol in his mouth and nearly made the decision to pull the trigger.

Although he seems to be in good spirits now with the possibility of maybe having a mobile life after the joint replacements with good pain management, I really would not be happy if his health continued to deteriorate and I'd have to slowly watch him perish, knowing he was in complete agony, all the while him wishing for death.

I guess that's the humane thing to do.

Your anecdote sums up why I'm not completely sold about "assisted suicide" being made legal.

Sometimes things get better. Imagine if you terminated a life and then some medical discovery is made soon after or something like that. You just never know.


The problem is you will never know.

Life is a crapshoot, and people only know what they have today. Telling someone in terminal agony "things might get better" is about like telling them "don't worry, you won't be suffering in Heaven." Both statements may be true...but that doesn't make today any easier. It doesn't matter if someone with agonizing bone cancer dies today, and then tomorrow we discover a miracle cure that reverses it...HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT when he made his decision, and nobody could tell him for sure, hang in there, tomorrow you'll be cured!

The reason assisted-suicide laws are so sparse is because of the fears healthy people like you raise: What if we find a cure and my loved one would have been saved? The other, of course, is the fear that annoyed family members, tired of waiting for granny to die, will encourage her to ask for euthanasia so they can get their money sooner. Both fears are equally selfish, because they both come from the family members: In the latter, it's the money, in the former, it's imagining how bad YOU will feel knowing you didn't have to let granny die.

What we need is a death court, like they had in Ancient Greece, where assisted suicide was allowed. The court heard the man's plea, and decided if he was sincere AND if the cause was good. Debtors were never allowed the option, whereas age and illness generally were.
 
2012-08-22 06:18:12 PM

MooseUpNorth: ZoeNekros: Even if they just communicate by blinks, we can setup a system that responds to that (with a camera and a computer-controlled drip).

Try and go two minutes without blinking. You might just want to rethink that one.


Don't be daft. I didn't say set up a system that kills them when they blink. Think it over for more than half a second.
 
2012-08-22 06:26:15 PM
Canada and UK courts must be very different.

Assisted Suicide is in Canadas courts and has been found unconstitutional a few times.
I think the next stage is the Supreme Court Of Canada and it will be struck down.
But in the UK it is the opposite. Must have different bills of rights and freedoms.
 
2012-08-22 06:46:30 PM
Cancer and a poor response to chemotherapy is an almost inevitable part of my future.

It's too bad assisted suicide isn't more common. Unassisted suicide is usually a bit messier - hypothetically, of course.
 
2012-08-22 06:49:46 PM
"Under our system of government, these are matters for parliament to decide, representing society as a whole, after parliamentary scrutiny,

So first-person accounts are irrelevant. Let us defer to the wisdom of the politicians to decide our personal fate.
 
2012-08-22 07:05:26 PM

screwzloos: Cancer and a poor response to chemotherapy is an almost inevitable part of my future.

It's too bad assisted suicide isn't more common. Unassisted suicide is usually a bit messier - hypothetically, of course.


Get a CO2 filter and rebreathe your own air. CO2 buildup is what triggers the breathing reflex, so rebreathing CO2 filtered air feels perfectly normal as you pass out from oxygen deprivation and die. No discomfort at all.
 
2012-08-22 07:23:13 PM
Anyone who has watched a person die from an illness such as cancer, emphysema, liver failure, even CKD, etc..would agree that assisted suicide should be an option for them.
 
2012-08-22 07:26:37 PM
This is really sad.

/Dude shoulda moved out here to Oregon
 
2012-08-22 07:27:15 PM

Rustblade: I'M FARKING PSYCHIC. I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THAT I'VE NEVER MET. AND STEPHEN HAWKING, WTF IS THIS GUY'S PROBLEM

 
2012-08-22 07:29:07 PM
Paint some arrows on a rock and call it a moral compass...
 
2012-08-22 07:32:10 PM
I wish I were dead, so I am getting a kick out of some of these responses.
 
2012-08-22 07:38:30 PM

blahpers: Rustblade: I'M FARKING PSYCHIC. I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THAT I'VE NEVER MET. AND STEPHEN HAWKING, WTF IS THIS GUY'S PROBLEM


You're in all caps and we can't hear over all of the screaming...that's the problem thus far.
 
2012-08-22 07:47:08 PM
So just curious...

For legal assisted suicide, must a person have a certain type of disease or ailment in order to be eligible? What about clinical depression?
 
2012-08-22 07:47:15 PM

downstairs: impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.


Agreed.  I mean, this is such a clear cut case.  I'm not necessarily for allowing a doctor to provide assisted suicide to someone that's merely depressed.  But come on, this guy didn't have a life.  He had worse than a life... he was living in hell for 7 years.


I am, actually. I mean, everyone with depression doesn't need to kill themselves. But god knows it's hell to live with it every day. I think depressed people should be allowed to opt out just like anyone else if it gets to be too much to bear.
 
2012-08-22 07:48:00 PM

wrightbone: blahpers: Rustblade: I'M FARKING PSYCHIC. I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THAT I'VE NEVER MET. AND STEPHEN HAWKING, WTF IS THIS GUY'S PROBLEM

You're in all caps and we can't hear over all of the screaming...that's the problem thus far.


But I agree.
 
2012-08-22 07:53:28 PM

impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.


Given how the wingnuts brought back weatherboarding, I'm not sure we'll be able to fault them...
 
2012-08-22 07:57:04 PM

Chinchillazilla: downstairs: impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.


Agreed.  I mean, this is such a clear cut case.  I'm not necessarily for allowing a doctor to provide assisted suicide to someone that's merely depressed.  But come on, this guy didn't have a life.  He had worse than a life... he was living in hell for 7 years.

I am, actually. I mean, everyone with depression doesn't need to kill themselves. But god knows it's hell to live with it every day. I think depressed people should be allowed to opt out just like anyone else if it gets to be too much to bear.


This, this, this.

/depressed
//serious
 
2012-08-22 08:10:05 PM
"Before he died, he asked us to tweet: 'Goodbye world, the time has com....................."
 
2012-08-22 08:21:40 PM

MattyBlast: Chinchillazilla: downstairs: impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.


Agreed.  I mean, this is such a clear cut case.  I'm not necessarily for allowing a doctor to provide assisted suicide to someone that's merely depressed.  But come on, this guy didn't have a life.  He had worse than a life... he was living in hell for 7 years.

I am, actually. I mean, everyone with depression doesn't need to kill themselves. But god knows it's hell to live with it every day. I think depressed people should be allowed to opt out just like anyone else if it gets to be too much to bear.

This, this, this.

/depressed
//serious


Me too. I'm better right now. Therapy helps me a lot. But there have been times, and probably will be again, where, if I could have done it painlessly, I would have, and I really don't think there's any shame in that.
 
2012-08-22 08:50:41 PM

Chinchillazilla: MattyBlast: Chinchillazilla: downstairs: impaler: downstairs: The My Little Pony Killer: We treat our pets with more dignity and respect in their last days than we do our own flesh and blood.


Pretty much this.

100 years from now, our insistence on keeping people alive in the utmost pain, because of the "sanctity" of life, will be seen as barbaric as trial by water/fire.


Agreed.  I mean, this is such a clear cut case.  I'm not necessarily for allowing a doctor to provide assisted suicide to someone that's merely depressed.  But come on, this guy didn't have a life.  He had worse than a life... he was living in hell for 7 years.

I am, actually. I mean, everyone with depression doesn't need to kill themselves. But god knows it's hell to live with it every day. I think depressed people should be allowed to opt out just like anyone else if it gets to be too much to bear.

This, this, this.

/depressed
//serious

Me too. I'm better right now. Therapy helps me a lot. But there have been times, and probably will be again, where, if I could have done it painlessly, I would have, and I really don't think there's any shame in that.


I've been stable and depression-free for four years. (The job hunt is getting me down, but not in the same way) And yet I still keep a suicide kit under the sink just in case. Just having it has gotten me over more awful nights than I can count.

If suicide is at least an option, somehow it makes it easier to wait it out. My experience, anyway.
 
2012-08-22 09:38:15 PM

Gyrfalcon: If suicide is at least an option, somehow it makes it easier to wait it out. My experience, anyway.


I know what you mean. I'm really only afraid of two things. I'm afraid to live beyond my quality of life. I'm terrified to live beyond my ability to do something about it. I've got obligations that keep me going, and some of it is fun, but dammit, I'd surely like to be able to choose my time and my terms, and to do so without shame or inflicting a mess on someone else.

If I could be sure of that much, I'd be in a far better position to improve my now.
 
2012-08-22 10:57:47 PM
How is this sad? Life was torture for him, and he wanted to die.

He's now dead and free from possibly more decades of suffering. Sweet release for him, probably.
 
2012-08-22 11:19:08 PM
I don't know why the government should be involved in making this decision for someone. If a person wants to die, they should have the right to end their own life. You have to be a sadist or selfish to want someone to continue living in agony. I understand it might hurt the people who love that person, but let's be honest here, they obviously aren't doing anything to make that person's life any better or simply can't do anything to make it better. They may be sad about it, but perhaps they should find some comfort in the fact that the person is no longer in pain.

The only gray areas where I can somewhat see an argument against it is in the case of children, adults responsible for children (assuming the adult doesn't have a life debilitating illness), prisoners (I'm fency on this one), and those with mental illnesses who may not understand what they're doing to themselves (but then again death might be better for them if they're that far gone). Of course, in all these cases I still believe they should have the right to off themselves. Kids are the only exception to that and only because they are overly emotional and act irrationally.

Anti-suicide laws aren't about caring, they're about control.
 
2012-08-23 12:53:31 AM
I wonder if they did the old fashioned thing and left him outside in the cold ( with his permission of course ). Once pneumonia sets in then it's usually a short wait till the end.
 
2012-08-23 01:08:12 AM

Gyrfalcon: If suicide is at least an option, somehow it makes it easier to wait it out. My experience, anyway.


Exactly. You're like, well, I'm just here because I CHOOSE to be here, and I can bail whenever I want.
 
2012-08-23 01:18:27 AM
FTFA : A spokesman for British anti-euthanasia group Care Not Killing applauded the ruling, saying, "it confirms the simple truth that the current law exists to protect those without a voice: the disabled, terminally ill and elderly, who might otherwise feel pressured into ending their lives."

The current law tells those who have a voice "We don't give a flying crap what you think. We'll make you suffer as long as possible."

brapbrapbrap: Sometimes things get better. Imagine if you terminated a life and then some medical discovery is made soon after or something like that. You just never know.


So you're saying that we should ignore known, actual situations, like suffering every damn day. All because "Maybe a miracle cure will be discovered, and if so, it's possible that maybe 10 years from now, after the new medical discovery has been tested, you'll be able to receive some treatment".

If someone wants to make their own decision based on "Maybe a cure will be discovered in the future", that's their choice. But telling them "You can't make your own choice based on what you know now" makes no sense.

What makes you think you should get to decide about their life, or my life? Shouldn't I have more say over my life than you do? Do you want me making decisions about your life?

octopied: How is this sad? Life was torture for him, and he wanted to die


The courts made it as long and painful a death as possible. That's what's sad.
 
2012-08-23 01:50:15 AM

Chinchillazilla: Gyrfalcon: If suicide is at least an option, somehow it makes it easier to wait it out. My experience, anyway.

Exactly. You're like, well, I'm just here because I CHOOSE to be here, and I can bail whenever I want.


For me it was like, I can always do this tomorrow if it's too bad then, just not today. Or sometimes, just not for another hour.

I dunno...I think if more people could choose suicide, there'd actually be fewer of them.
 
2012-08-23 05:46:32 AM
Co9ncerning the right to die, Some time ago, saw where an individual here on Fark whose name I can't remember saying "I wish the religious right would leave if alone. If they want to die with someone else wiping their butt, fine. Me, I want to die with dignity."
 
2012-08-23 06:21:09 AM
How many of you have killed nerves through overstimulation? Those of you who have will know that nerve death through overstimulation is the theoretical maximum pain that a human can experience. It is much worse than childbirth and lasts for months, which is why I laugh at women who say that men can never understand the pain involved in delivering a child.

Anyone who says that a person should stay alive in any amount of pain should inject some capsaicin under a nerve sheath in their little finger to kill the nerve and get an idea of what `being in pain` actually means. They can have access to any painkillers they like (which won`t work) and go to all the pain management classes they want (where people just tell they to grit their teeth, grin and bear it, because you are getting the rest of us down) When that nerve dies and the pain stops then another nerve is injected.

After six months of unbearable pain they get to vote on assisted suicide.
 
2012-08-23 06:23:25 AM

JuggleGeek: octopied: How is this sad? Life was torture for him, and he wanted to die

The courts made it as long and painful a death as possible. That's what's sad.


You obviously didn`t see the poor man break down and sob on national television because he had to endure more life or you wouldn`t ask the question.

It was heartbreaking to watch someone suffer so much and be forced to endure more.
 
2012-08-24 06:38:39 AM

dready zim: How many of you have killed nerves through overstimulation? Those of you who have will know that nerve death through overstimulation is the theoretical maximum pain that a human can experience. It is much worse than childbirth and lasts for months, which is why I laugh at women who say that men can never understand the pain involved in delivering a child.

Anyone who says that a person should stay alive in any amount of pain should inject some capsaicin under a nerve sheath in their little finger to kill the nerve and get an idea of what `being in pain` actually means. They can have access to any painkillers they like (which won`t work) and go to all the pain management classes they want (where people just tell they to grit their teeth, grin and bear it, because you are getting the rest of us down) When that nerve dies and the pain stops then another nerve is injected.

After six months of unbearable pain they get to vote on assisted suicide.


I've recently had an infected root canal, which took two weeks of dealing with the worst pain I've ever experienced before the antibiotics started working. (Also ate a pot butter cookie to try to make the pain go away at one point... that was a very bad idea.) I would never begrudge anyone going though that with no hope of a cessation a quick and painless death, it was like Dr Giggles drilling into my jaw 24/7. At best large doses of painkillers just made me too sleepy to remember some of it.

I don't even begrudge anyone just tired of life and too weak to get out and make anything of it. When the time comes it comes, and up until this century's medical advances people were pretty calm and reasonable about all of that.
 
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