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(NYPost)   Stupid: Pointing a laser at planes trying to land at JFK. Brazen: Pointing a laser at the helicopter trying to investigate you for pointing a laser at planes   (nypost.com) divider line 50
    More: Dumbass, JFK, helicopters, Reykjavik  
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6298 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2012 at 12:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-08-22 12:35:05 PM  
"I gotta make it crash before it figures out where I live!"
 
2012-08-22 12:54:51 PM  
Hello attempted murder charges.
 
2012-08-22 12:57:21 PM  
How do these do against drones ? or is it only cause problems for human vision ?
 
2012-08-22 12:57:44 PM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Hello attempted murder charges.


Can we just drop this person in the deepest darkest hole we can find and throw away the key.
 
2012-08-22 12:59:26 PM  
Sucks when morons due that to SAR helos trying to look for distressed swimmers near beaches. Pilots have to abort and land to have their eyes checked leaving the distressed swimmer to drown.
 
2012-08-22 01:01:41 PM  
I've had laser pointers in my eyes before (red, not green). Not exactly painful, all the damage is well-spread out and microscopic.


It farks with cameras something mighty, though.
 
2012-08-22 01:03:34 PM  
Easy solution: mandate all laser pointers be of one specific wavelength, and design flight goggles that absorb that wavelength rather than transmit it to the eye.
 
2012-08-22 01:04:06 PM  
 
2012-08-22 01:04:37 PM  
I don't get it. How do you hit the eye of someone you can't see, moving at airplane speed, from a distance of at least a few hundred meters, long enough to become a nuisance? Even Robin Hood would have trouble here.
 
2012-08-22 01:09:40 PM  

Tiiba: I don't get it. How do you hit the eye of someone you can't see, moving at airplane speed, from a distance of at least a few hundred meters, long enough to become a nuisance? Even Robin Hood would have trouble here.


Totally. Lasers are totally ineffective projectiles when launched from a bow. No aerodynamics.
 
2012-08-22 01:10:16 PM  

Tiiba: I don't get it. How do you hit the eye of someone you can't see, moving at airplane speed, from a distance of at least a few hundred meters, long enough to become a nuisance? Even Robin Hood would have trouble here.


The beam scatters off the windshield -- aircraft windshields are frequently scratched and pitted. This isn't a big deal in most cases, but if the laser hits the glass than it can scatter around the glass and dazzle the pilot. This is really dangerous if one is flying at night, in a dim cockpit, with night-adapted eyes as it can really wreck your night vision.

For an example, see this video. Note that at certain angles the amount of light coming from the glass ball up to the camera is increased -- scattering off of imperfections in the windshield can have a similar effect.
 
2012-08-22 01:10:40 PM  
A police helicopter en route to investigate minutes later also was hit. Two officers and a medical technician on board were treated at a hospital and released.

Were they a an albino crew or something?
 
2012-08-22 01:12:44 PM  
There are always going to be idiots.

It's so fun to watch them get caught and punished.
 
2012-08-22 01:13:57 PM  
Is there any actual photographic or video from the inside a of a cockpit that actually shows a laser strike happening? Most of the accounts I've heard of involve the pilots describing that the whole inside of the cabin gets lit up. I'd be curious to actually see what they are seeing. I've always had my doubts that someone could really actually hit the cockpit window of a flying plane and keep the laser on it for anything more than a fraction of a second, but there are enough reports coming out now that some of them could be true.
 
2012-08-22 01:14:24 PM  

farkityfarker: There are always going to be idiots.

It's so fun to watch them get caught and punished.


This
 
2012-08-22 01:15:39 PM  

kindms: How do these do against drones ?



I suspect that the drones don't fly this low, or along fixed paths like airport approach/departure. Holding a beam on a drone would probably take a machine to aim...
 
2012-08-22 01:16:48 PM  
electronicintifada.net
"Like to play with lasers, do ya? Keep shining that farker"
 
2012-08-22 01:18:56 PM  

kindms: How do these do against drones ? or is it only cause problems for human vision ?


I doubt that drones would be really affected: the beefy military ones probably have laser-filtered optics so it wouldn't make much of a difference.

For others, you'd be likely to hit the camera at that distance and it'd probably have the same effect as a laser on any other camera: momentary blindness followed by things working normally again.

Even then, most drones aren't typically flown optically: you program in an altitude and course and the thing flies itself via GPS and other navigational sensors.
 
2012-08-22 01:20:29 PM  

Ambitwistor: Tiiba: I don't get it. How do you hit the eye of someone you can't see, moving at airplane speed, from a distance of at least a few hundred meters, long enough to become a nuisance? Even Robin Hood would have trouble here.

Totally. Lasers are totally ineffective projectiles when launched from a bow. No aerodynamics.


It took me a few months of trial and error, but my catapult can put a laser pointer within 60' of a commercial jetliner.
 
2012-08-22 01:21:04 PM  

BradleyUffner: Is there any actual photographic or video from the inside a of a cockpit that actually shows a laser strike happening?


Here. Also a great place to get lasers that do what the article is showing
 
2012-08-22 01:25:23 PM  
Will it be illegal to shine lasers at the thousands of drones soon to be infesting US airspace, since there is no pilot?
 
2012-08-22 01:30:26 PM  

trappedspirit: A police helicopter en route to investigate minutes later also was hit. Two officers and a medical technician on board were treated at a hospital and released.

Were they a an albino crew or something?


Thank you.
 
2012-08-22 01:31:21 PM  

flynn80: Will it be illegal to shine lasers at the thousands of drones soon to be infesting US airspace, since there is no pilot?


depends on how much you enjoy Hellfire missles in your back yard.
 
2012-08-22 01:32:14 PM  
farm6.staticflickr.com
meh
 
2012-08-22 01:33:47 PM  
I've had laser eye surgery, including photocoagulation with an argon-krypton laser. The brightest green light you can possibly imagine. The lens of the laser is millimeters way from the cornea of the eye. When it was over, after what seemed like an hour (1200 welds per eye), I thought the doctor had burnt my eyeballs out, I saw pitch black. nothing at all. absolutely no difference between eyes open or closed. Had the doctor not assured me that it was normal, I would have freaked the fark out. Then gradually, the world began to return, tinted in the most intense, insane purple haze that Jimi would have loved to written a song about. That was circa 1992.

I had another round of laser eye surgery last year, in an attempt to clear/widen the openings that allow the proper drainage of aqueous humor (most likely to the canal of Schlemm's), which regretfully did not succeed. Glaucoma is a biatch, let me tell you what.

What I want to know is, how the fark to you treat eyes that have been exposed to lasers that were shone from hundreds, if not thousands, of feet away? If there was any damage, it's done, over. Can't do anything about it. IF there was any damage. Now, I'm not trying to exculpate the asshats who are doing this, I totally understand that it is super way uncool to temporarily blind a pilot during one of the two most critical phases of air flight (those being take off and landing) but I'm sensing a little drama queen sensationalization on the part of the media ie: the poor brave servants of the public's interest were carried off, bloodied and battered, but stoutly quelling any signs of anguish as their damaged frames were gently and lovingly delivered to the wise and benevolent medical practitioners who threw the heft of their mighty wealth of knowledge to try to undo the evils that these cretins had done to the gallant souls.

when in reality it was more like:

"Yo, flatfoot, how many fingers am I holding up?"

"One, and fark you, too, Doc. I love you anyway, you mook"

"Ok, you're good. Here, have a month of workmen's comp. Enjoy."

"Thank, Doogie Houser."
 
2012-08-22 01:35:45 PM  

kindms: How do these do against drones ? or is it only cause problems for human vision ?


Theoretically you could blind a camera with a laser, as long as the laser is of a wavelength the camera can see. But the same stuff they use to make laser-safety goggles could also be used to build a filter for the camera, which would reduce the laser to a nuisance. Throw in a backup infrared camera -infrared lasers exist, but are very hard to aim with the naked eye because you can't see the beam- and you've pretty much defeated the taggers.

Come to think of it, why haven't laser safety goggles become standard equipment for pilots to wear on landing?
 
2012-08-22 01:36:29 PM  

MythDragon: BradleyUffner: Is there any actual photographic or video from the inside a of a cockpit that actually shows a laser strike happening?

Here. Also a great place to get lasers that do what the article is showing


Wow, that's exactly the kind of video evidence I was talking about. I can't think of a more perfect example. Consider my mind changed about how possible this actually is.
 
2012-08-22 01:36:41 PM  

MythDragon: flynn80: Will it be illegal to shine lasers at the thousands of drones soon to be infesting US airspace, since there is no pilot?

depends on how much you enjoy Hellfire missles in your back yard.


Just one of the many ways to get a return on your taxes.
 
2012-08-22 01:37:41 PM  

MythDragon: BradleyUffner: Is there any actual photographic or video from the inside a of a cockpit that actually shows a laser strike happening?

Here. Also a great place to get lasers that do what the article is showing


That video was pretty sweet
 
2012-08-22 01:39:20 PM  
All this is doing is tempting me.

Don't do it, gotta try, no don't do it, gotta try, c'mon, stop it.

I'm farked.
 
2012-08-22 01:44:39 PM  
Well then, another good reason why housecats aren't allowed to pilot commercial aircraft!
 
2012-08-22 01:46:19 PM  
Treated and released? What a scam!
 
2012-08-22 01:46:35 PM  
I appreciated the article's photo showing what an airport runway might look like. It added a lot.
 
2012-08-22 02:01:24 PM  

Millennium: Come to think of it, why haven't laser safety goggles become standard equipment for pilots to wear on landing?


Because it would be one more pain in the ass for busy pilots just because of a few assholes.
 
2012-08-22 02:02:22 PM  

cleveoh: Well then, another good reason why housecats aren't allowed to pilot commercial aircraft!


zomg - I'm still shuddering with chuckles. The mental image of my previous cat KB and her reaction to a laser pointer, at the controls of a aircraft. Let's just say that the airframe's rigidity would be very seriously challenged to maintain its integrity. Binx, on the other hand, could not give a shiat.
 
2012-08-22 02:26:01 PM  

Full Blown Jimbo: Millennium: Come to think of it, why haven't laser safety goggles become standard equipment for pilots to wear on landing?

Because it would be one more pain in the ass for busy pilots just because of a few assholes.


There are a few visors around for helicopter helmets that will deflect/reduce the effect of laser pointers.
 
2012-08-22 02:28:48 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Easy solution: mandate all laser pointers be of one specific wavelength, and design flight goggles that absorb that wavelength rather than transmit it to the eye.


Yeah! That'll take care of the millions of pointers that are already out there.

Somebody get this man a government appointment.
 
2012-08-22 02:47:42 PM  

Evil Mackerel: MythDragon: flynn80: Will it be illegal to shine lasers at the thousands of drones soon to be infesting US airspace, since there is no pilot?

depends on how much you enjoy Hellfire missles in your back yard.

Just one of the many ways to get a return on your taxes.


Well it is one way to clear your yard of dead leaves in the autumn.
 
2012-08-22 03:03:05 PM  
I'm glad the VC and the NVA didn't have those when I was flying in Vietnam.

Just AK-47's and RPG's, nothing serious like a bright light.
 
2012-08-22 03:04:13 PM  

Millennium: Come to think of it, why haven't laser safety goggles become standard equipment for pilots to wear on landing?


They can be really dark (particularly if they block many wavelengths or need to significantly reduce the intensity of a beam), they change the appearance of color, and depending on the wavelength they can be really expensive.

In short: not exactly what pilots want to be wearing at night while landing a plane.
 
2012-08-22 03:14:56 PM  
The ability of lasers to cause eye damage to pilots at range is overrated. First lemme be clear, it will dazzle and momentarily blind a pilot, and that's very very dangerous, especially for a helicopter pilot. A fixed-wing plane, you can generally just let off the controls and the plane will level off and fly away, hopefully not pointed at a radio tower or anything. A helicopter requires human input pretty constantly and that input has to appropriate for what you see from the horizon and the gauges.

5mw- the FDA-established legal limit for laser pointers- really can't harm a retina, not unless you stare into it pointblank. Green lasers appear much brighter, but 5mW green is still 5mW. And "laser light" has no special power here, it's just a bright light.

In the past few years more powerful lasers became available online, cheap. The FDA is pissed but can't do much. It's a basic electronics component, not a gun. Even off-the-shelf 5mW lasers can often be modded and "turned up" to far greater power. 50mW are common, there's even some 1W ones which are crazy dangerous.

A laser pointer is only about 1.5mm dia at the source. But contrary to popular belief, it's not a straight line, there's divergence. A cheap laser pointer might have a divergence of 1.5mrad. That means at even 500ft, the beam will be spread out over 216mm. That's a 20,736x larger area, so even if there were no scattering or absorption by the air, its power density per unit area (which is the critical factor for damaging a retina) is reduced to 0.005% of its original density. So a 1W laser 500ft out is the same intensity as a 5mW one (legally recognized as "more or less safe" pointer) close up, as far as the retina's concerned.

At a mile, you're down to 3.9e-7 of the original density.

So, causing actual EYE DAMAGE at this sort of range doesn't seem very plausible, even taking into account there are many unknowns and it's not well studied under all conditions. It's just a temporary dazzling. Which is, of course, still unreasonably dangerous to the pilot, esp since there's zero reason to be doing it.
 
2012-08-22 03:26:51 PM  

heypete: They can be really dark (particularly if they block many wavelengths or need to significantly reduce the intensity of a beam), they change the appearance of color, and depending on the wavelength they can be really expensive.


Oh, I forgot to mention: they're not exactly the most fashionable goggles around.

i.imgur.com

/my lab has lasers
 
2012-08-22 03:30:07 PM  

heypete: heypete: They can be really dark (particularly if they block many wavelengths or need to significantly reduce the intensity of a beam), they change the appearance of color, and depending on the wavelength they can be really expensive.

Oh, I forgot to mention: they're not exactly the most fashionable goggles around.

[i.imgur.com image 480x640]

Has anyone guessed your secret identity?

 
2012-08-22 03:32:24 PM  
steindamen.files.wordpress.com

WFQ.
 
2012-08-22 03:38:33 PM  

Oznog: So, causing actual EYE DAMAGE at this sort of range doesn't seem very plausible, even taking into account there are many unknowns and it's not well studied under all conditions.


Slamming into the ground and asploding I 've heard causes pretty bad eye damage.
 
2012-08-22 03:50:08 PM  

gopher321: Oznog: So, causing actual EYE DAMAGE at this sort of range doesn't seem very plausible, even taking into account there are many unknowns and it's not well studied under all conditions.

Slamming into the ground and asploding I 've heard causes pretty bad eye damage.


Which must be why he said "It's just a temporary dazzling. Which is, of course, still unreasonably dangerous to the pilot, esp since there's zero reason to be doing it."
 
2012-08-22 04:04:18 PM  
www.nypost.com

So I clicked the Fark Article and... then I.. uh, wait what was this...I'm...
 
2012-08-22 05:49:10 PM  

BradleyUffner: Is there any actual photographic or video from the inside a of a cockpit that actually shows a laser strike happening? Most of the accounts I've heard of involve the pilots describing that the whole inside of the cabin gets lit up. I'd be curious to actually see what they are seeing. I've always had my doubts that someone could really actually hit the cockpit window of a flying plane and keep the laser on it for anything more than a fraction of a second, but there are enough reports coming out now that some of them could be true.


Link
 
2012-08-22 06:14:46 PM  
www.impactlab.net
 
2012-08-22 09:11:24 PM  

heypete:

For an example, see this video. Note that at certain angles the amount of light coming from the glass ball up to the camera is increased -- scattering off of imperfections in the windshield can have a similar effect.


Gahh!!! I'm blind!!!

Tahoihatleijoa m[on9ja ot aldkhgaoihtaihak nd...aktjoaie j
 
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