consider this: BolloxReader: If the situation preceded you, then I'd have to suggest a bit more due diligence before moving next time.Wait, you're suggesting that people should either accept the noise or find somewhere else to live?
Bathia_Mapes: Yes.Conan Wayne Hale is currently on death row for the murder of three teens. He was a former neighbor of mine when my son was around 8 years old.
Mangoose: On one hand, that is a blatant violation of the law and the police chief should be let go and then charged. On the other hand, fark teenagers. Those guys suck.Also, what happened to the ol' "smelled marijuana" tactic? That's all any cop had to say when I was a young whore. Well that or, "when the door opened I witnessed ________ in plain sight", with the ____ being filled in with whatever crime you found on the other side of the door.
Bathia_Mapes: Bathia_Mapes: Yes.Conan Wayne Hale is currently on death row for the murder of three teens. He was a former neighbor of mine when my son was around 8 years old.Sorry, wrong thread. :-(
MycroftHolmes: I can't answer that, so I will defer to the police chief who made the decision regarding the best use of his men. My point remains, you have created a false dichotomy in your argument. You are saying that if a law is resource intensive to maintain, we should just scrap the law, rather than find another way of maintaining the law. I don't see why it needs to be either or.
SquiggelyGrounders: Last I checked you are not legaly required to answer the door for anybody. And even if the cops are outside you dont have to talk to them through an open door or otherwise. If they want in its up to them to get a warent/GED in Law from DeVry
MycroftHolmes: Your original post that I was responding to was basically criticizing the police for implying that civil rights were a waste of time. These comments do not make any sense, as the police are not really any part of your perceived violation of civil rights.And your assumption that police and city council move in lockstep is an assertion that is not validated in all (or even most) cases.
MycroftHolmes: You are saying that if a law is resource intensive to maintain, we should just scrap the law, rather than find another way of maintaining the law.
consider this: BolloxReader: I'm suggesting that it depends on the circumstance. If the neighborhood was already that way before someone moved in, then it's that person's fault for not doing due diligence. Neighborhoods full of students and young people are going to be noisy. Anyone who moves in and tries to force them to be quiet is in the wrong. Forcing one's lifestyle and preferrences on others, through laws or regulations, isn't a good response.Expecting people to follow the law is not "forcing one's lifestyle" on anybody.
DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.Personally, having lived next door to some annoying farktards who loved playing loud music at all hours of the night, i'd support just evicting the douchebags, rather than pansying around with a small fine.
lennavan: In a nice way but yeah. I got pulled over a few years ago, my taillight was out. That was kind of him to let me know. Do you think he cares about my safety? What a kind gentleman. Not sure why he needed to run my license, registration and see my proof of insurance to kindly inform me of my safety risk. In chatting with him he kindly asked me how old my son sitting in the back seat was. What a nice guy, inquiring about my family. We were getting to be friends it seemed. Probably just a coincidence my kid was just barely old enough at the time to sit in the back without a child restraint. He didn't even give me a citation for the taillight. I'm sure that's what he does all day long, helps notify people of the repairs needed to their vehicles.By the way, I've actually had really farking good experiences with cops and have a wildly favorable view of them. But holy fark are you a tard if you think this is about anything other than generating revenue.
fireclown: Sybarite: I don't see why they have to bother with the provision about whether or not someone answers the door. Why not just set clear noise ordinance guidelines and fines for violating them, then have the cops write a citation and leave in on the front door the same way you would a parking ticket on a car?Because that wouldn't result in arrests, which look great come budget time. If you get a chance to wander around a college party, you're going to find a bunch of petty nonsense: underage drinking, maybe some marijuana if you're lucky. Suddenly you are no longer essentially a meter maid, you are an ainti crime crusader whose job must be protected.CSB: I made a policeman get a warrant to search my car once. I just sort of wanted to see what would happen. He radioed in, and the legal aces back at the station got a judge to issue a warrant. A cruiser dropped it off about an hour and a half later, they searched my trunk and found nothing. Looking back, it wasn't a good way to spend an afternoon.
Pumpernickel bread: Well, if the neighbors wanted peace and quiet, they shouldn't have moved in next to a farking frat house. Those guys do have a certain reputation, and it isn't for being studious little nerds. This reminds me of that couple that moved into a house near the airport and then filed a complaint about the noise.
lennavan: MycroftHolmes: Your original post that I was responding to was basically criticizing the police for implying that civil rights were a waste of time. These comments do not make any sense, as the police are not really any part of your perceived violation of civil rights.And your assumption that police and city council move in lockstep is an assertion that is not validated in all (or even most) cases.The cops are city council are completely independent. I get it. Okay then. For the sake of argument we agreed on this already. What next?MycroftHolmes: You are saying that if a law is resource intensive to maintain, we should just scrap the law, rather than find another way of maintaining the law.Oh okay, so the cops said it is resource intensive, so the city council has to change the law. These two things work together dependent on each other. Wait, what?
Flakeloaf: robbiex0r: Do you have any idea what happens in a college town when police respond to a "noise complaint"? They breathalyze everyone in that house. Then they ticket the tenants for supplying and other things, often amounting to thousands of dollars per "host". Each underage person in attendance receives a fine no less than $250, and a lot more if it's a second offense. These "noise complaints" can just be cops driving around and hearing the sound of a party.Sorry, my bad. I'm used to living in a civilized country where police tell the by-law people to handle by-laws, the by-law folks show up to ask everyone to be drunken idiots quietly and the stoners hold their breath until the nice man with the big ticket book is gone.
natas6.0: I passionatel yhate college types, so screw themyea there are tricks, like if you don't go in someone could be hurt/killedor evidence could be destroyed" I heard someone yelling as if they were being injured"donecops do what the chief tells them to.the chief is told what to do by the city council/ mayor etc.if you don't want a routine call for a complaintkeep it the fark down or invite yer stuffy neighbor so there is no complaint.seems so simple to avoid trouble
consider this: BolloxReader: Those are, in my view, far more important violations than anything noise related (unless you are testing sonic weapons). Noise ordinances are about neighbors not being compatible, that is the long and the short of it. And the police shouldn't be the solution to a cultural problem.So I could move in next to you, blast my stereo 24 hours a day, extra loud while you were trying to sleep, just for the lulz, and you'd just accept it and find somewhere else to live?
consider this: So they plant evidence and make up lies? Oh wait, they find people doing illegal shiat. I have an idea that's just crazy enough to work, how about you don't do illegal shiat, or if you do, don't blast your farking music loud that somebody calls the cops? Impossible, right?
namegoeshere: Bathia_Mapes: Bathia_Mapes: Yes.Conan Wayne Hale is currently on death row for the murder of three teens. He was a former neighbor of mine when my son was around 8 years old.Sorry, wrong thread. :-(Okay... but now I need to know what the right thread is.
RandomRandom: a very easy fix for the students is to build an temporary wooden alcove inside their front doors,
kvinesknows: RandomRandom: a very easy fix for the students is to build an temporary wooden alcove inside their front doors,you mean a porch?
RandomRandom: Dog Welder: Wouldn't they have probable cause to enter the residence if the occupants didn't answer the door?Forcibly breaking down the door of a residence due to loud music? Really? Not only is that a guaranteed way to generate massive lawsuits against the police and municipality, it's a stunningly massive overreaction. Noise does not equate to a public safety danger.The proper response would be for the cop to record the noise level from the street, if in violation, write out a civil fine for noise violation and staple it to the front door. Problem solved.
Bathia_Mapes: namegoeshere: Bathia_Mapes: Bathia_Mapes: Yes.Conan Wayne Hale is currently on death row for the murder of three teens. He was a former neighbor of mine when my son was around 8 years old.Sorry, wrong thread. :-(Okay... but now I need to know what the right thread is.Sorry, but it's a TFD thread, which as you know I can't share with non-TFers.
Selector: Is there any college kid in america under 21 who hasn't had at least one alcoholic drink?? Can't we just get rid of stupid laws already??
MycroftHolmes: You understand that the police chief is not advocating breaking the constitution, right? He is basically telling the city that he will not waste his men's time trying to get a search warrant for a noise complaint. Which is why the city had to use code enforcement to do an end around on the search warrant. Nowhere in the article did it state or imply that the police were advocating warrantless searches.
SirDigbyChickenCaesar: And this is the destruction of the 4th amendment how exactly? Where is the unreasonable search or seizure?
Tumunga: I remember the good old days when the cops would come to the front door, teenage drinking all about, and tell you the neighbors are complaining, turn the noise down, then leave. Also, I remember when you got pulled over, open booze containers in the car, and the cops would make you pour your booze out, then tell you to drive straight home.What the fark happened?/onion on my belt, etc.
dbubb: Everybody wants a puppy until it shiats in the lving room. When you host a college in your town and reap the economic benefits, you're going to have lots of this crap going on.If you really want to get somewhere, fine the landlords for noise violations. That will clear things up.
fnordfocus: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: And this is the destruction of the 4th amendment how exactly? Where is the unreasonable search or seizure?Because it isn't a ticket for a noise violation.It is a ticket for not letting the Cops in without a warrant. Technically, for not opening the door, but it's the same thing. Once the door is open y'all "knock and talk" and force your way in anyway.
RandomRandom: Giltric: Solution.....talk to all local landlords and ask them for a key to the house/apartment and permission to enter their property to answer a complaint.That's not how US law works.The resident of a house has 4th amendment rights, not just the landlord. Even if the landlord gives the police a key, they still need a warrant. (And thank god we don't have a 2-class 4th amendment, one for home owners and another for renters. We have enough class division as it is.)The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.The 4th Amendment, it's your friend.
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