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(The Gazette)   Problem: College students who know their legal rights are refusing to let the police enter their homes when they knock. Solution: Make that a civil offense, with fines up to $1000 per offense   (thegazette.com) divider line 254
    More: Scary, Iowa City, Iowa, local ordinance, Iowa City Press-Citizen, disorderly house, police Chief Sam Hargadine  
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20609 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2012 at 2:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 02:48:41 PM  

consider this: Dickheads are being dicks and not answering the door


And why do you think that is?

Could it possibly, maybe have a little something to do with cops using an open door to look inside for probable cause, then using that probable cause to enter the party and charge their visitors with crimes?

If the cops were simply asking them to turn down the music, they'd answer the door. This is clearly a response to an over-reach by the cops.

As I said in a post above, the students just need to build some interior alcoves. It would allow them to answer the door while preventing the cops from seeing inside, problem solved.
 
2012-08-22 02:50:38 PM  
From how the article was written, it sounds like tenants and landlord would be charged with a disorderly house if the renters refused to answer the door regardless of why the police were there. The article talked about parties as the excuse but nowhere did they say that party houses are the only ones affected.

How do they know that tenants are home? How do they know that tenants who are home aren't taking a shower or playing WoW and can't even hear the officer at the door?

This is just a $1000 ticket for bruising someone's ego and for exerting Constitutional rights. Freedom isn't free, Iowa City just put a price tag on it.
 
2012-08-22 02:52:01 PM  

snocone: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Question: Under this law, what if you keep the door closed, but only answer verbally?

Dave's not here.


No, man; it's me... I'm Dave

/ I got the stuff
 
2012-08-22 02:52:44 PM  
Currently, if there's a disorderly house and there's a criminal complaint, that triggers a letter being sent to all of the tenants and the landlord. A second complaint results in a mandatory meeting.

Last year, there were 175 first-time offenses, eight second offenses and no third offenses,


oh it gets even better, the problem isn't even an existent one.
 
2012-08-22 02:52:53 PM  

JackieRabbit: Subby doesn't understand the Constitution. The fourth amendment does not give us a right to refuse to obey the lawful directions and orders of peace officer. We have the right to refuse an unlawful search or seizure. Actually the city council here is doing these kids a favor. It is a misdemeanor offense to disobey a police officer; one can go to jail for doing it. The Iowa City council is making the refusal to answer the door for a police officer a civil offense that can be punished by a simple citation. A civil offense doesn't generate a criminal record, while a misdemeanor does.


yes, but you don't have to answer your door. thus, not answering is not refusing to obey the lawful directions and orders of a police officer. also, the airlock solution proposed by RandomRandom was the first thing that came to my mind. the one can answer, but the cops couldn't see inside (of course there's still the "i smell weed" pc excuse). in general why not just fine the shiat out of property owners for repeated noise violations? no one needs to answer the door for the officer to note the violation of a given noise ordinance and mail off a citation.  what you think landlords won't solve this if there are fines being dropped on them?
 
2012-08-22 02:53:10 PM  
And this is the destruction of the 4th amendment how exactly? Where is the unreasonable search or seizure?

How about a parking ticket? Do I have to track you down and hand it to you? No. If you didn't park your car in the handicapped spot you come to court and plead your case.

So you are having a loud party and wont answer the door for a warning, fine. Per your 4th amendment rights I cannot enter to get you to quiet down but a violation was committed and you are getting a citation or whatever this municipality calls it. If you weren't at your house when the loud party was happening you come to court and plead your case.

Someone, somewhere actually took the time to think about going process of getting a search warrant to issue a citation and came up with the right answer. You don't need one. There is no search, there is no seizure.

The people complaining the most about this should love it. What happens when I enter your college party on a valid search warrant for a stupid noise complaint? How many potential possession, contributing, and underage drinking charges you think I could get in 15 minutes?

The owner could come outside and either get a warning or a citation. if they don't the officer doesn't have that discretion anymore.

/if I can't warn I put the citation in the mailbox. If you don't pay or it get's lost, they send you another copy with a nice letter reminding you.
 
2012-08-22 02:53:43 PM  
If I am at a party at your house, and the cops knock, does my opening of the door (even though I don't live at the house or have any authotity there) still give cops the right to peer in?
If I'm in a grocery store, and my friend is waiting in my car, he cannot give consent to search the car if a cop walks up to him. How would this be different?
 
2012-08-22 02:53:44 PM  

The Muthaship: cig-mkr: And just who are they going to fine the $1000?
I wasn't home at the time and didn't authorize any party your Honor.

In other news, it just got harder to get your roommate to put his name on the lease....


You may have pinpointed a flaw in the whole setup under this ordinance. When I was in my 20s, I lived in six difference shared-housing arrangements where my name wasn't on anything. In some of the places, NO ONE who lived there had their name on a lease, and the landlords had no idea who actually lived there and didn't care as long as the rent got paid. In that case, there's no one the cops could cite on their ticket.

///remember one place where we got a lot of arrest warrants in the mail for someone who hadn't lived there for years.....
 
2012-08-22 02:54:08 PM  

consider this: lennavan: So why again do they need to enter?

Who said they need to enter, other than subby? Stop choosing to believe every anti-cop piece of drivel that some cop hating moron posts. Cops do not enter your home when responding to a noise complaint unless you open the door and there's a big pile of coke on the coffee table or a human sacrifice going on.


C'mon now.. Be a realist. Cops frequently overstep their bound and figure out the law later.
 
2012-08-22 02:54:26 PM  
(This comment has been removed)
 
2012-08-22 02:55:09 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: College students being self-absorbed asshats annoying everyone within a city block around them while avoiding any social responsibility? Wow, there's a surprise.

A noise ordinance. The horror! Someone dust off a copy of the constitution and start gibbering about it.


I know! If only there was some place besides a college town these lovers of absolute peace and quiet could live... I live at a tourist beach, and I am constantly going to city council meetings to introduce ordinances to keep these damn tourists away.
 
2012-08-22 02:55:20 PM  

Headso: Currently, if there's a disorderly house and there's a criminal complaint, that triggers a letter being sent to all of the tenants and the landlord. A second complaint results in a mandatory meeting.

Last year, there were 175 first-time offenses, eight second offenses and no third offenses,

oh it gets even better, the problem isn't even an existent one.


The problem is the cops don't like people disrespecting them by refusing to answer the door, so someone's gotta be punished.
 
2012-08-22 02:55:34 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

Cops? Pro-tip here: Maybe you shouldn't be dumb, okay? I know it's hard when you decide to start hiring tech-school rejects and roid-happy gym-rats, but, seriously, try to understand what laws are and how they work. It'll keep you from looking like complete imbeciles.


.
.
Cops pass laws? Perhaps you should try reading the WHOLE article.
 
2012-08-22 02:55:39 PM  

Dog Welder: Wouldn't they have probable cause to enter the residence if the occupants didn't answer the door?


Forcibly breaking down the door of a residence due to loud music? Really? Not only is that a guaranteed way to generate massive lawsuits against the police and municipality, it's a stunningly massive overreaction. Noise does not equate to a public safety danger.

The proper response would be for the cop to record the noise level from the street, if in violation, write out a civil fine for noise violation and staple it to the front door. Problem solved.
 
2012-08-22 02:57:53 PM  

consider this: lennavan: So why again do they need to enter?

Who said they need to enter, other than subby? Stop choosing to believe every anti-cop piece of drivel that some cop hating moron posts. Cops do not enter your home when responding to a noise complaint unless you open the door and there's a big pile of coke on the coffee table or a human sacrifice going on.


I love that you keep pretending like this is about some guy at home alone playing his music too loud so the cop shows up to politely ask him to stop. Frickin love it. Hey man, I can't argue against your imagination. When reality comes back to you, we can talk about how they want you to answer the door so they can look beyond you for all the tickets they can write. I now return you to your imagination that actually thinks cops can't just knock on the door and use their voice through the door to demand they turn the music down.
 
2012-08-22 02:58:04 PM  

clearlyatroll: consider this: lennavan: So why again do they need to enter?

Who said they need to enter, other than subby? Stop choosing to believe every anti-cop piece of drivel that some cop hating moron posts. Cops do not enter your home when responding to a noise complaint unless you open the door and there's a big pile of coke on the coffee table or a human sacrifice going on.

C'mon now.. Be a realist. Cops frequently overstep their bound and figure out the law later.


For the record I'm only defending the idea of not opening your door for the police for any reason.
 
2012-08-22 02:58:06 PM  
My post college apartment was right at the edge of the college slums (hey, it's Boston - what apartment *isn't* on the edge of a college slum?). Our cheap ass apartment was in a building with a mix of college kids and young professionals, tipped maybe 65-35 towards the kids. They would party, and make noise, and sometimes it was a pain in the ass, particularly when we had to go to work in the MA and they didn't, but it didn't happen often - end of semester, big game weekends, etc, and my roomie & I were always welcome to come over an have a beer or three with them. Heck, we were only two or three years older, and not that far removed from the same behavior.

One fine fall day, We got a pamphlet shoved under the door. It was from the college, informing us that if our apartment were to be 'raided' by campus or city PD, we would be subject to academic probation, suspension, or even expulsion. Neither my roomie or I had never attended said college, nor had any other affiliation to the school.

That weekend threw the loudest damn party we could.

And when the campus cops showed up, we invited them in for beer.

Never heard from the school, nor received another notice.
 
2012-08-22 02:58:22 PM  
Solution.....talk to all local landlords and ask them for a key to the house/apartment and permission to enter their property to answer a complaint.


Or as a cop, just claim "I heard screaming so we drew our weapons and went in to see if there was a murder or assault in progress"


/my jackboots are thigh high
 
2012-08-22 03:01:35 PM  

GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

You're assuming the people in question have the time and money to sue the city.


They're snowflakes. Mommy and Daddy will take care of it.
 
2012-08-22 03:01:51 PM  

consider this: Who said they need to enter, other than subby? Stop choosing to believe every anti-cop piece of drivel that some cop hating moron posts. Cops do not enter your home when responding to a noise complaint unless you open the door and there's a big pile of coke on the coffee table or a human sacrifice going on.


So all cops are perfect and respect the rights of young people on all occasions? Really?

I'm not saying all cops do this. If it's a once-a-year party in a residential neighborhood, this probably won't happen. But in a college areas where the same houses have parties every weekend, it definitely happens. Once the door is open, they poke in their heads looking for probable cause to enter. Once inside, they arrest and shut down parties.

That's why these students aren't answering their doors, they're responding to police over-reach. If they police were simply asking them to turn down the music, why would they fear answering the door?
 
2012-08-22 03:01:59 PM  

Dog Welder: Not a lawyer, so maybe a real one could fill in the blanks here, but if the town had some sort of noise ordinance and the police:

1) Received a noise complaint at a residence, and
2) Arrived at said residence and while standing outside heard incredibly loud noises,

Wouldn't they have probable cause to enter the residence if the occupants didn't answer the door?


You don't need a lawyer for this. Violations of a noise ordinance is not a crime; it's civil disobedience. If the police have probably cause to believe that a crime is being committed inside the house, they may enter. If not, they must get a warrant from a judge before entering. That is Iowa City's problem. But the time the police could get a warrant to enter, the party would have moved on. And, while the police are going for a warrant, they can't be doing - duh! - police work.

These police could have abused their power and simply said that they smelled weed. These are college kids, so they would have had a drug bust most of the time. I think this is a measured response by city officials to what can become a serious problem in a college town.
 
2012-08-22 03:02:22 PM  
Open the door with a camcorder in your hand. "How about we don't violate each others' rights, ok?"

Problem solved.
 
2012-08-22 03:02:35 PM  
They'll get you by hook or crook,like Brandon Raub.

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/former-marine-brandon-raub-is-l o cked-in-a-psych-ward-over-his-911-facebook-posts/19770/
 
2012-08-22 03:02:55 PM  

GAT_00: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: GAT_00: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.

But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

Yeah, it doesn't matter what the warrant is for, any criminal activity is considered a valid search under our absurd laws. The warrant can really be for anything, once inside it's all fair game.

Give it five years tops, and you'll see these hard on crime conservatives asking why we need warrants at all.

For the first part, warrants aren't free tickets to search for anything the police feel like. The nature of the warrant and the specifics of the search parameters have to be defined.

For the second, that's an awfully generous assumption. I'd argue less than 2 years.

That's cute, you think there are still limits to the power of a police search.


They get real vindictive if you don't answer the door.

CSS - A few months after we bought this house a neighbor reported a prowler to the police. They showed up and knocked on our door as neighbor said he had been in our yard too. We'd had a bbq and few cocktails and were asleep. The front door is a good distance from our bedroom and slept through it all.
They showed up the next day to tell me that they had searched our 3 outbuildings,2 vehicles and an RV. Cocksucker was smirking when he told me this. We were new in the area and he felt the need to show authority. My response "Oh no, you found our meth lab."
So yeah, go ahead and be asleep or just refuse to answer your door.
 
2012-08-22 03:02:57 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

Cops? Pro-tip here: Maybe you shouldn't be dumb, okay? I know it's hard when you decide to start hiring tech-school rejects and roid-happy gym-rats, but, seriously, try to understand what laws are and how they work. It'll keep you from looking like complete imbeciles.


Reading is hard.

Cops are not doing anything unconstitutional here. They are referring complaints to code enforcement, which then cite the tenants for code violation. Police are completely inbounds here, city government is the one on very thin ice.
 
2012-08-22 03:03:23 PM  

ROGUECOP: Ok, I get the constitutional arguments and I agree with them. However, We do get call after call after call from pised off neighbors who demand the police enforce the peace disturbance laws. So let me ask, what would be a reasonable yet constitutionally protective way to handle these calls while at the same time understanding we can't spend all farking night on one noise complaint?

/hate these calls as a cop
//biggest violator of these laws when I was in college


It's been a couple of decades since I attended a party that was visited by police officers. However, in this area, I always thought the stops were well handled.

The cops would show up. Perhaps it is because this is the South, but entering a home or apartment in order to speak to someone was never an issue. Invariably the party parameters included the backyard, patio, or closest parking lot.

The pair of police officers would approach someone outside and ask to speak to someone who lived at that address. They would then shake hands with that person and ask to make an announcement. The music was cut and one of the officers' would announce that there had been a noise complaint. The officer might or might not include some detail like "there's a young couple with a newborn nearby" or "some of the elderly folks are upset". The officer would further explain that he was young once and he didn't want to ruin the fun. He usually finished with a statement along the lines of "Do me favor, don't make me work for a living tonight. Hold it down, okay?"

That nearly always worked. I did briefly room with a band and I'll admit that the same message had to be repeated every single weekend without fail. Since cops aren't allowed alcoholic beverages while on duty, we kept cans of Sprite and Cola in the fridge just for them. Every weekend someone, often me, was designated to remain sober, greet the cops, and offer them a soda when they arrived.

I'm not sure how that would work if you are in a cold climate or dealing with a building with multiple stories where there might not be anyone outside to speak to.
 
2012-08-22 03:03:40 PM  

consider this: No, it's a way to get people to be considerate of their neighbors and to obey city noise ordinances. I guarantee that you wouldn't be on the side of a house full of morons screaming and blasting music at 2am if they lived next door to you. Do you really want police officers spending hours sitting around waiting for a warrant for a noise complaint rather than patrolling the streets?


I love this post. I tried my best to agree with all of it but the cognitive dissonance is seriously messin with my brain.

consider this: No, it's a way to get people to be considerate of their neighbors and to obey city noise ordinances. I guarantee that you wouldn't be on the side of a house full of morons screaming and blasting music at 2am if they lived next door to you.



I AGREE THIS IS SO OUTRAGEOUS. GODDAMN KIDS AND THEIR GODDAMN MUSIC. FARK THOSE KIDS WE NEED TO CHANGE LAWS TO BYPASS WARRANTS AND SO ON.

consider this: Do you really want police officers spending hours sitting around waiting for a warrant for a noise complaint rather than patrolling the streets?


Heh yeah, good point, this is kinda a stupid issue isn't it. Not even worth a few hours of a cop's time. BUT STILL SUPER OUTRAGEOUS LETS CHANGE THE LAW.
 
2012-08-22 03:04:04 PM  
Myth: Problem: College students who know their legal rights are refusing to let the police enter their homes when they knock. Solution: Make that a civil offense, with fines up to $1000 per offense

Reality: Problem: People are throwing noisy parties that disturb others and they are circumventing the law by not answering the door when police show up. Solution: Make that a civil offense, with fines up to $1000 per offense.
 
2012-08-22 03:04:06 PM  
Pretty straightforward town-vs-gown problem.

The zoning ordinances can't be made much tougher, because who the hell else are you going to rent to? The students just want to party.

The only long-term solution is segregation (wait, hear me out).

My alma mater, the University of Dayton, has a huge swath of student-only housing. In the last 20 years, it's become almost all University-owned, but when I went there in the 80s a significant percentage (~ 20%) of 'the ghetto' was privately owned. But the only people in the neighborhood were students, hence the leeway for shenanigans was much higher.
 
2012-08-22 03:05:18 PM  

lennavan: I love that you keep pretending like this is about some guy at home alone playing his music too loud so the cop shows up to politely ask him to stop. Frickin love it. Hey man, I can't argue against your imagination. When reality comes back to you, we can talk about how they want you to answer the door so they can look beyond you for all the tickets they can write. I now return you to your imagination that actually thinks cops can't just knock on the door and use their voice through the door to demand they turn the music down


Why shouldn't I be able to? You can step out on the porch and conduct our business. I am not going to make you keep the door open. If you do leave it open and I see something illegal I am going to act on it because that is my job.

So, if I pull you over for speeding at 1am should I hold my breath so I can't tell if you have been drinking?
 
2012-08-22 03:05:45 PM  

Dog Welder: Wouldn't they have probable cause to enter the residence if the occupants didn't answer the door?


No, because a violation of the noise ordinance is a civil infraction, rather than a crime. What you are referring to is called Exigent Circumstances. They need a specific reason to suspect that a crime is in progress, or evidence of a crime is being destroyed inside the house.


P.S. If you are the neighbor, and this is the 4th or 5th time the frat boys have pulled this crap, just let the responding officer know that you heard a woman screaming inside the house. Voila, instant exigent circumstances.
 
2012-08-22 03:07:39 PM  

Dog Welder: Not a lawyer, so maybe a real one could fill in the blanks here, but if the town had some sort of noise ordinance and the police:

1) Received a noise complaint at a residence, and
2) Arrived at said residence and while standing outside heard incredibly loud noises,

Wouldn't they have probable cause to enter the residence if the occupants didn't answer the door?


That's like saying they have probable cause to search your car because you refused to let them search it.
 
2012-08-22 03:08:14 PM  

consider this: lennavan: I love that you keep pretending like this is about some guy at home alone playing his music too loud so the cop shows up to politely ask him to stop. Frickin love it. Hey man, I can't argue against your imagination. When reality comes back to you, we can talk about how they want you to answer the door so they can look beyond you for all the tickets they can write. I now return you to your imagination that actually thinks cops can't just knock on the door and use their voice through the door to demand they turn the music down.

Yes, cops are out to fark you over any chance they get.
Let it go man, they were just doing their job when they told you not to skateboard in the bank parking lot.


In a nice way but yeah. I got pulled over a few years ago, my taillight was out. That was kind of him to let me know. Do you think he cares about my safety? What a kind gentleman. Not sure why he needed to run my license, registration and see my proof of insurance to kindly inform me of my safety risk. In chatting with him he kindly asked me how old my son sitting in the back seat was. What a nice guy, inquiring about my family. We were getting to be friends it seemed. Probably just a coincidence my kid was just barely old enough at the time to sit in the back without a child restraint. He didn't even give me a citation for the taillight. I'm sure that's what he does all day long, helps notify people of the repairs needed to their vehicles.

By the way, I've actually had really farking good experiences with cops and have a wildly favorable view of them. But holy fark are you a tard if you think this is about anything other than generating revenue.
 
2012-08-22 03:08:34 PM  

lennavan: In those situations, a search warrant would be necessary to get inside, but that could take a couple of hours, if it's successful, and police Chief Sam Hargadine said that wasn't a good use of his officers' time.

He's got a good point, civil rights are kinda a waste of time.

I mean, it's worth their time to ticket some underage kids at their residence for drinking alcohol (gasp!111!!) but following the constitution, fark, they're not made of time okay, they have murders and stuff to solve.


You understand that the police chief is not advocating breaking the constitution, right? He is basically telling the city that he will not waste his men's time trying to get a search warrant for a noise complaint. Which is why the city had to use code enforcement to do an end around on the search warrant. Nowhere in the article did it state or imply that the police were advocating warrantless searches.
 
2012-08-22 03:10:52 PM  

Giltric: Solution.....talk to all local landlords and ask them for a key to the house/apartment and permission to enter their property to answer a complaint.


That's not how US law works.

The resident of a house has 4th amendment rights, not just the landlord. Even if the landlord gives the police a key, they still need a warrant. (And thank god we don't have a 2-class 4th amendment, one for home owners and another for renters. We have enough class division as it is.)

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 4th Amendment, it's your friend.
 
2012-08-22 03:13:10 PM  
First they came for the whinning snowflakes with the over inflated sense of entitlement and I said nothing beacuse Im not a whinning snowflake with the over inflated sense of entitlement .Then they came for me and....well....they didnt come for me beacuse I actually have a sense of decency , self controll and I understand the implied responsibility that is endemic to good citizenship and courteous neighborliness.
 
2012-08-22 03:13:14 PM  
I don't really have a problem with this. Part of civilization is co-existing with your neighbors. If you are making a lot of noise your neighbors have a right to complain. It's reasonable for the police to come to your door and ask you to keep it down at this point. Obviously, the cops have no right to enter but if you don't talk to them they can't do their job so you can EABOD and pay the fine.
 
2012-08-22 03:14:04 PM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.

Personally, having lived next door to some annoying farktards who loved playing loud music at all hours of the night, i'd support just evicting the douchebags, rather than pansying around with a small fine.


Then a GOOD USE OF THE COPS TIME would be to spend the TWO FREAKIN HOURS it takes to get the warrant. Then they can bust in handle shiat. Once the cops show they are willing to get a warrant the asshats will just answer the door. Once they have a warrant they are searching the joint.

This boils down to cops who are too lazy to spend a few hours to stay within the constitution.
 
2012-08-22 03:15:16 PM  

Aarontology: Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.


And apparently they learned that trick from the asshat in charge who claims "it's not a good use of their time"
 
2012-08-22 03:16:58 PM  

lennavan: consider this: lennavan: I love that you keep pretending like this is about some guy at home alone playing his music too loud so the cop shows up to politely ask him to stop. Frickin love it. Hey man, I can't argue against your imagination. When reality comes back to you, we can talk about how they want you to answer the door so they can look beyond you for all the tickets they can write. I now return you to your imagination that actually thinks cops can't just knock on the door and use their voice through the door to demand they turn the music down.

Yes, cops are out to fark you over any chance they get. Let it go man, they were just doing their job when they told you not to skateboard in the bank parking lot.

In a nice way but yeah. I got pulled over a few years ago, my taillight was out. That was kind of him to let me know. Do you think he cares about my safety? What a kind gentleman. Not sure why he needed to run my license, registration and see my proof of insurance to kindly inform me of my safety risk. In chatting with him he kindly asked me how old my son sitting in the back seat was. What a nice guy, inquiring about my family. We were getting to be friends it seemed. Probably just a coincidence my kid was just barely old enough at the time to sit in the back without a child restraint. He didn't even give me a citation for the taillight. I'm sure that's what he does all day long, helps notify people of the repairs needed to their vehicles.

By the way, I've actually had really farking good experiences with cops and have a wildly favorable view of them. But holy fark are you a tard if you think this is about anything other than generating revenue.


Oh, a cop pulled me over right after our state passed a copy-cat law based on the one out of Arizona that lets' cops demand proof of citizenship from individuals they've stopped. My child, who was adopted internationally, is sitting in the back seat. The officer begins with admonishing me for running a stop sign. And I may have run the stop sign because I was so exhausted at the time I couldn't think and felt awful. Then, the officer started asking me questions about my child. Not a question, but questions, in the plural. I have never felt so afraid, inwardly violent, and absolutely flipped out. If that never happens again for the rest of my life, it will be too soon.
 
2012-08-22 03:17:07 PM  

Aarontology: In those situations, a search warrant would be necessary to get inside, but that could take a couple of hours, if it's successful, and police Chief Sam Hargadine said that wasn't a good use of his officers' time.

Following the Constitution is not a good use of his officers' time.


That's also what I zeroed in on coming to the thread. However, I think it means more that his officers could be better used "fighting real crime" rather than obtaining a warrant because Harriet the Retired biatch needs to stick her nose in everything and act like she's bothered by folks at 3AM even though she was already awake watching Matlock on bootleg VHS.

If you pay attention to subtext, you know that's exactly what he means. I mean seriously. Harriet isn't going to "know how to turn on a DVD". Of course it's VHS!
 
2012-08-22 03:18:47 PM  

fireclown:
CSB: I made a policeman get a warrant to search my car once. I just sort of wanted to see what would happen. He radioed in, and the legal aces back at the station got a judge to issue a warrant. A cruiser dropped it off about an hour and a half later, they searched my trunk and found nothing. Looking back, it wasn't a good way to spend an afternoon.


*fist bump to fireclown*

Actually, IMO, forcing the cops to follow protocol is an *excellent* way to spend an afternoon. Would that more of us were willing to invest the time necessary to keep our public servants "honest", especially when we have nothing to hide. Perhaps if we did so en masse, over time cops would learn to not be so cavalier about citizen's rights, searches and search warrants.
 
2012-08-22 03:19:26 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Why shouldn't I be able to? You can step out on the porch and conduct our business. I am not going to make you keep the door open.

So, if I pull you over for speeding at 1am should I hold my breath so I can't tell if you have been drinking?


Why should I? I'm a busy guy, I got better things to do. I'm playin on my Xbox and my kill/death ratio is farking awesome. Why the fark should I be required to answer my door? You want to force me to answer my door, get a warrant, otherwise I got more important shiat to do.

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So, if I pull you over for speeding at 1am should I hold my breath so I can't tell if you have been drinking?


A great analogy. Similar situation - getting a warrant to draw blood takes hours. Link Those pesky warrantses. Let's pass a law that says if you don't let me sniff your breath, hell if you pop a mint at 1AM you are automatically declared drunk and get your fine. No need for a warrant!
 
2012-08-22 03:21:27 PM  

SpectroBoy: This boils down to cops who are too lazy to spend a few hours to stay within the constitution.


There's that. There's also a likelihood that most judges would be less than impressed by being woken up at 2am to sign a warrant for a farking noise complaint.

Noise does not equal probable cause for, well, anything but noise. That's just asking to have any subsequent arrests thrown out. If I were a judge and woken in the middle of the night for this kind of crap, I'd tell the cops to write out a civil fine and let me get back to sleep. If they did it again, I'd tell them they were idiots and any subsequent arrests wouldn't stick.

/Not a lot of sympathy for the neighbors on college campuses. WTF do people expect when they move into college slum areas?
 
2012-08-22 03:21:37 PM  

MycroftHolmes: You understand that the police chief is not advocating breaking the constitution, right?


He is advocating bypassing it. No need for a warrant or evidence if you can just declare guilt and send them their fine in the mail and demand they prove their innocence to get out of it. You get that, right?

MycroftHolmes: He is basically telling the city that he will not waste his men's time trying to get a search warrant for a noise complaint.


So... stop responding to noise complaints then. Either they are or they are not worth it. I don't get how you get to have it both ways. These things are so super duper important we must change the law immediately because if we don't, then they are not important enough for our time?
 
2012-08-22 03:25:13 PM  

consider this: RandomRandom: Once inside, they arrest and shut down parties.

So they plant evidence and make up lies? Oh wait, they find people doing illegal shiat. I have an idea that's just crazy enough to work, how about you don't do illegal shiat, or if you do, don't blast your farking music loud that somebody calls the cops? Impossible, right?


Heh yeah, the only people who need rights are the guilty ones. Repeal the 5th amendment, right?
 
2012-08-22 03:26:18 PM  

consider this: BolloxReader: This is just a $1000 ticket for bruising someone's ego and for exerting Constitutional rights.

No, it's a way to get people to be considerate of their neighbors and to obey city noise ordinances. I guarantee that you wouldn't be on the side of a house full of morons screaming and blasting music at 2am if they lived next door to you. Do you really want police officers spending hours sitting around waiting for a warrant for a noise complaint rather than patrolling the streets?


Interestingly I have lived for almost 20 years in neighborhoods with large concentrations of college student renters. My first apartment was in such a place and I did security work there-- front-desk stuff, screening visitors and collecting dry cleaning and releasing packages to residents.

I've never felt the need to call the cops on anyone for noise. The only time I had to deal with noise complaints was a crazy lady who literally would hallucinate. As in the police wouldn't even come out for her anymore because they would stand there and hear absolutely nothing while she would insist music was blaring.

There are places I wouldn't move to, like Broad Ripple in Indianapolis, because of constant partying. I'm not going to move into it and demand that people not stumble drunkenly across my lawn, throw up on my front walk and piss in my flower bed at 4 am. That's the character of the neighborhood. Just like I wouldn't move to Speedway because I don't enjoy people turning my lawn into a rutted ruin. I'm not going to move there and tell people they can't park on my lawn on race week. I just have chosen to not live there.

Maybe your neighbors have been far worse than mine. I don't know how to compare such experiences. I do know that some people have far less noise tolerance than others and this causes friction. I don't know when you started having these problems relative to when you moved in. If it used to be a quiet little neighborhood far from campus, then you have a legit beef. If the situation preceded you, then I'd have to suggest a bit more due diligence before moving next time.
 
2012-08-22 03:27:16 PM  
How come people move to college towns and then complain about noise?

I mean I'm pretty sure the University was there before your house, jackass.
 
2012-08-22 03:27:47 PM  
Yes.

Conan Wayne Hale is currently on death row for the murder of three teens. He was a former neighbor of mine when my son was around 8 years old.
 
2012-08-22 03:28:05 PM  
*gets on roof*
poietes.files.wordpress.com
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
 
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