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(The Gazette)   Problem: College students who know their legal rights are refusing to let the police enter their homes when they knock. Solution: Make that a civil offense, with fines up to $1000 per offense   (thegazette.com) divider line 253
    More: Scary, Iowa City, Iowa, local ordinance, Iowa City Press-Citizen, disorderly house, police Chief Sam Hargadine  
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20607 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2012 at 2:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 11:26:22 AM
In those situations, a search warrant would be necessary to get inside, but that could take a couple of hours, if it's successful, and police Chief Sam Hargadine said that wasn't a good use of his officers' time.

Following the Constitution is not a good use of his officers' time.
 
2012-08-22 11:31:28 AM
On one hand, that is a blatant violation of the law and the police chief should be let go and then charged. On the other hand, fark teenagers. Those guys suck.

Also, what happened to the ol' "smelled marijuana" tactic? That's all any cop had to say when I was a young whore. Well that or, "when the door opened I witnessed ________ in plain sight", with the ____ being filled in with whatever crime you found on the other side of the door.
 
2012-08-22 11:33:18 AM
Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

Cops? Pro-tip here: Maybe you shouldn't be dumb, okay? I know it's hard when you decide to start hiring tech-school rejects and roid-happy gym-rats, but, seriously, try to understand what laws are and how they work. It'll keep you from looking like complete imbeciles.
 
2012-08-22 11:33:26 AM
It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.

Personally, having lived next door to some annoying farktards who loved playing loud music at all hours of the night, i'd support just evicting the douchebags, rather than pansying around with a small fine.
 
2012-08-22 11:36:08 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.


And?
 
2012-08-22 11:38:31 AM

Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.

And?


Gonna have to second this. The cops can come back with a warrant. It's not illegal to ignore someone at your front door, last I checked.
 
2012-08-22 11:39:48 AM

Elandriel: Gonna have to second this. The cops can come back with a warrant. It's not illegal to ignore someone at your front door, last I checked.


Yeah, if the cops had a warrant it'd be another matter entirely.
 
2012-08-22 11:42:12 AM

Aarontology: Elandriel: Gonna have to second this. The cops can come back with a warrant. It's not illegal to ignore someone at your front door, last I checked.

Yeah, if the cops had a warrant it'd be another matter entirely.


It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Scenario 1: The cops knock on your door, you open it, they tell you they've had some noise complaints and don't come into the house and discover anything that you might be doing that they'd have grounds to arrest you for.


Scenario 2: The cops know that people throwing parties aren't answering the door to them, so they don't bother until they've got a warrant. The first you know about the noise complaint is when the cops bust in your front door with a nice legal excuse to search the place.
 
2012-08-22 11:46:49 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.


Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.
 
2012-08-22 11:47:12 AM

Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.


You're assuming the people in question have the time and money to sue the city.
 
2012-08-22 11:49:40 AM

Elandriel: Gonna have to second this. The cops can come back with a warrant. It's not illegal to ignore someone at your front door, last I checked.


At the moment, anyways. The law is not some stone tablet forged upon a mountain top. It's a book written and rewritten by millions upon millions of people every day. If enough people want to make a law, they will. Whether the legality of that law holds can take a long time to decide.
 
2012-08-22 11:51:31 AM

Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.


But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?
 
2012-08-22 11:54:04 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.

But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?


Yeah, it doesn't matter what the warrant is for, any criminal activity is considered a valid search under our absurd laws. The warrant can really be for anything, once inside it's all fair game.

Give it five years tops, and you'll see these hard on crime conservatives asking why we need warrants at all.
 
2012-08-22 11:55:05 AM

Mangoose: Elandriel: Gonna have to second this. The cops can come back with a warrant. It's not illegal to ignore someone at your front door, last I checked.

At the moment, anyways. The law is not some stone tablet forged upon a mountain top. It's a book written and rewritten by millions upon millions of people every day. If enough people want to make a law, they will. Whether the legality of that law holds can take a long time to decide.


Well given the SC precedent you can imagine that, if this law is made, and challenged, it will eventually end up with Scalia or Alito or someone saying not only can cops bust down doors without even bothering to knock, but we're all criminals for disagreeing with that, and in fact the civil penalty now includes jail time. Also you forfeit your house.
 
2012-08-22 11:56:51 AM
No need for alarm, it's just for when the little douchebags throw parties and feel that they don't have to answer to their neighbor's pleas that they tone it down a bit. I'll withdraw support the instant this is used to bust anyone and everyone for the sake of revenue. That should take about a week or so.

Mangoose: Also, what happened to the ol' "smelled marijuana" tactic?


Slightly off-topic, but idiots in my state don't seem to realize that, as imperfect as our marijuana legislation is right now, it'd make it so that you can answer the door to cops with a joint in your hand and they won't be able to touch you for it. Rawrgle fargle.
 
2012-08-22 11:58:14 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?


They're probably gambling on them not bothering with the warrant over a noise complaint. Or they figure it'll give them time to get rid of everything illegal for when the cops do show up .
 
2012-08-22 11:59:21 AM
"The City Council voted 7-0 Tuesday night on the first consideration of an ordinance amending the city's nuisance rental property regulations to allow for a civil citation for disorderly house when occupants do not answer the door."

This is who can enact ordinances, biatch about them.
 
2012-08-22 12:06:14 PM

Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

They're probably gambling on them not bothering with the warrant over a noise complaint. Or they figure it'll give them time to get rid of everything illegal for when the cops do show up .


Aah, I think that's where you're misunderstanding what I think will happen. Perhaps the first time it happens the police will knock, wait, and then come back with a warrant. Maybe.

Pretty soon though, they'll just start getting warrants before they go round, and the first the party goers will know about it is when the door is kicked in.

It's not hard to imagine a judge deciding that a loud party in a house inhabited by college students previously known to refuse to answer the door to police is probable cause to believe there will be underage drinking.
 
2012-08-22 12:16:08 PM
After reading the article, it doesn't sound THAT bad. It looks like the city has an ordinance where, if you are a "disorderly house" you are fined. The rules say the police have to come to your house twice for noise complaints before anything is done, and you aren't instantly fined, there is a review process first.. Now, if you refuse to answer your door, the review process is started right away, and the city housing inspectors are told your house needs to be reviewed to see if it is disorderly and if they should or shouldn't be fined. If you disagree with the fine (if you are eventually fined) you can show up in court and dispute it, like a speeding ticket.

The article was a little light on the details, but that's what I pieced together from it.
 
2012-08-22 12:20:15 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

They're probably gambling on them not bothering with the warrant over a noise complaint. Or they figure it'll give them time to get rid of everything illegal for when the cops do show up .

Aah, I think that's where you're misunderstanding what I think will happen. Perhaps the first time it happens the police will knock, wait, and then come back with a warrant. Maybe.

Pretty soon though, they'll just start getting warrants before they go round, and the first the party goers will know about it is when the door is kicked in.

It's not hard to imagine a judge deciding that a loud party in a house inhabited by college students previously known to refuse to answer the door to police is probable cause to believe there will be underage drinking.


ohhhh. Yeah, I see what you're getting at now. Good point.
 
2012-08-22 12:32:37 PM

GAT_00: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.

But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

Yeah, it doesn't matter what the warrant is for, any criminal activity is considered a valid search under our absurd laws. The warrant can really be for anything, once inside it's all fair game.

Give it five years tops, and you'll see these hard on crime conservatives asking why we need warrants at all.


For the first part, warrants aren't free tickets to search for anything the police feel like. The nature of the warrant and the specifics of the search parameters have to be defined.

For the second, that's an awfully generous assumption. I'd argue less than 2 years.
 
2012-08-22 12:36:57 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: For the first part, warrants aren't free tickets to search for anything the police feel like. The nature of the warrant and the specifics of the search parameters have to be defined.


True, but anything "in plain sight" is entirely fair game, related to the original warrant or not. So unless the partygoers are in the habit of putting, for example, all of their drugs and paraphernalia away and out of sight during the party, they're still farked.
 
2012-08-22 12:38:34 PM
Question: Under this law, what if you keep the door closed, but only answer verbally?
 
2012-08-22 12:39:42 PM

Aarontology: In those situations, a search warrant would be necessary to get inside, but that could take a couple of hours, if it's successful, and police Chief Sam Hargadine said that wasn't a good use of his officers' time.

Following the Constitution is not a good use of his officers' time.


When asked for comment he said "The Constitution is too damn annoying. We do want we want. Whateva! We do what we want"
img.photobucket.com
^Actual pic of Police Chief
 
2012-08-22 12:49:14 PM
Die, pigs
 
2012-08-22 12:55:10 PM
Oh States rights, is there anything you can't violate. Who would have thought allowing every state, county and city to pass arbitrary laws would be a bad idea? It's much better to fight for your constitutional rights on 4 levels of government.
 
2012-08-22 12:56:27 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Question: Under this law, what if you keep the door closed, but only answer verbally?


That's usually the best way to handle cops randomly showing up at your house, anyway.
 
2012-08-22 12:57:18 PM

Mangoose: On one hand, that is a blatant violation of the law and the police chief should be let go and then charged. On the other hand, fark teenagers. Those guys suck.


So, if you had a time machine, once you killed Hitler the first thing you'd do is go back and sodomize high school you with a baseball bat. Good to know, fascist dick.

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's not that they're refusing to let officers in, it's that they're refusing to come and answer the door.

Personally, having lived next door to some annoying farktards who loved playing loud music at all hours of the night, i'd support just evicting the douchebags, rather than pansying around with a small fine.


You sound old and unlikeable.
/Also fascist.
 
2012-08-22 01:31:29 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: GAT_00: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.

But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

Yeah, it doesn't matter what the warrant is for, any criminal activity is considered a valid search under our absurd laws. The warrant can really be for anything, once inside it's all fair game.

Give it five years tops, and you'll see these hard on crime conservatives asking why we need warrants at all.

For the first part, warrants aren't free tickets to search for anything the police feel like. The nature of the warrant and the specifics of the search parameters have to be defined.

For the second, that's an awfully generous assumption. I'd argue less than 2 years.


That's cute, you think there are still limits to the power of a police search.
 
2012-08-22 01:33:54 PM
I don't see why they have to bother with the provision about whether or not someone answers the door. Why not just set clear noise ordinance guidelines and fines for violating them, then have the cops write a citation and leave in on the front door the same way you would a parking ticket on a car?
 
2012-08-22 02:05:48 PM

GAT_00: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: GAT_00: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Aarontology: DammitIForgotMyLogin: It just strikes me as an incredibly stupid move.

Think like a college student. Opening the door to the cops means they could see something illegal.

Or maybe they're just hoping they'll go away and think it's too much of a hassle to get a warrant over a noise complaint.

But surely making it so that they'll show up with a warrant to actually come in makes it more likely they'd see something illegal?

Yeah, it doesn't matter what the warrant is for, any criminal activity is considered a valid search under our absurd laws. The warrant can really be for anything, once inside it's all fair game.

Give it five years tops, and you'll see these hard on crime conservatives asking why we need warrants at all.

For the first part, warrants aren't free tickets to search for anything the police feel like. The nature of the warrant and the specifics of the search parameters have to be defined.

For the second, that's an awfully generous assumption. I'd argue less than 2 years.

That's cute, you think there are still limits to the power of a police search.


Have your Fourth Amendment protections from bullshiat search and seizure been violated? Thank a drug prohibitionist.
 
2012-08-22 02:14:42 PM
Laws are for little people.

Suck it plebes.
 
2012-08-22 02:16:04 PM

GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

You're assuming the people in question have the time and money to sue the city.


We are talking college kids here. We can assume that one of these precious beings has a mommy or daddy ready with the "...never done anything wrong before and is very sorry about this so MEET MY farkING LAWYER..." statement.
 
2012-08-22 02:17:05 PM

Dogberry: "The City Council voted 7-0 Tuesday night on the first consideration of an ordinance amending the city's nuisance rental property regulations to allow for a civil citation for disorderly house when occupants do not answer the door."

This is who can enact ordinances, biatch about them.


^^Read this.

This situation has nothing to do with cops kicking down doors looking for a roach and a penny-sleeve full of stems. This is about people in noisy houses who can't or won't answer teh door when someone asks them to turn their shiat off. Usually that's a courtesy call before your loud noise by-law kicks in and people start getting fines. This city's council has just taken away that privilege.

Solution: Turn your stereo down or invite your neighbours over.
 
2012-08-22 02:17:25 PM
Inch by inch,step by step,America has become a police state. If their were laws in place that enforced decibel levels at certain hours i can understand it but this is far too arbitrary.
 
2012-08-22 02:17:52 PM
Just have the first cop dressed in a pizza delivery outfit with a box. I guarantee they'll answer the door.
 
2012-08-22 02:18:02 PM

Sybarite: I don't see why they have to bother with the provision about whether or not someone answers the door. Why not just set clear noise ordinance guidelines and fines for violating them, then have the cops write a citation and leave in on the front door the same way you would a parking ticket on a car?


Because that way doesn't have the potential for abuse later on down the line.
 
2012-08-22 02:18:04 PM
In those situations, a search warrant would be necessary to get inside, but that could take a couple of hours, if it's successful, and police Chief Sam Hargadine said that wasn't a good use of his officers' time.

He's got a good point, civil rights are kinda a waste of time.

I mean, it's worth their time to ticket some underage kids at their residence for drinking alcohol (gasp!111!!) but following the constitution, fark, they're not made of time okay, they have murders and stuff to solve.
 
2012-08-22 02:18:11 PM
I'm not a lawyer, but if the cops come to a party that is obviously a nuisance, isn't that a violation of the law and aren't they permitted to enter at that point? Just bring a vid cam to CYA and the cops should be fine.
 
2012-08-22 02:19:12 PM
31 posts and no Pinkman?

i.qkme.me
 
2012-08-22 02:19:12 PM
Is there any college kid in america under 21 who hasn't had at least one alcoholic drink?? Can't we just get rid of stupid laws already??
 
2012-08-22 02:19:22 PM

Aarontology: Yeah, if the cops had a warrant it'd be another matter entirely.


Yeah, if the cops had a warrant it's be another matter

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-22 02:19:48 PM
Make your 'Disturbing the Peace' charge something a little above a minor misdemeanor, then after a reasonable attempt to get them to answer, kick the f*cking door in.
 
2012-08-22 02:19:50 PM
latimesblogs.latimes.com
I AM THE LAW
 
2012-08-22 02:20:10 PM
America: fark, yeah.

Or "Sieg heil", as required.
 
2012-08-22 02:20:46 PM
"rental property regulations"

So if your parents are out of town and the party is at their house, carry on.
 
2012-08-22 02:21:09 PM

InfrasonicTom: GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: Looks like some people will be getting $1000 back from the Constitutionally-illiterate police.

You're assuming the people in question have the time and money to sue the city.

We are talking college kids here. We can assume that one of these precious beings has a mommy or daddy ready with the "...never done anything wrong before and is very sorry about this so MEET MY farkING LAWYER..." statement.


Given the cost of tuition these days - might be able to get a bit more out of the city...
 
2012-08-22 02:21:48 PM

Ryan2065: After reading the article, it doesn't sound THAT bad. It looks like the city has an ordinance where, if you are a "disorderly house" you are fined. The rules say the police have to come to your house twice for noise complaints before anything is done, and you aren't instantly fined, there is a review process first.. Now, if you refuse to answer your door, the review process is started right away, and the city housing inspectors are told your house needs to be reviewed to see if it is disorderly and if they should or shouldn't be fined. If you disagree with the fine (if you are eventually fined) you can show up in court and dispute it, like a speeding ticket.

The article was a little light on the details, but that's what I pieced together from it.


Pretty much came to say this. I was even going to make a comparison to speeding cameras, where they fine you even though they don't know if it was you driving...similar to fining all the tenants even if they don't know you were at the party.
 
2012-08-22 02:21:49 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Question: Under this law, what if you keep the door closed, but only answer verbally?


Dave's not here.
 
2012-08-22 02:21:51 PM
As somone that lived in a house in Iowa City that frequently made over $1,000 each time we hosted a kegger, I'm getting a kick out of these responses.
 
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