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(The Atlantic)   Remember when Obama cited Marx as his reason for entering politics? Well this no-true-libertarian at The Atlantic sure does   (theatlantic.com) divider line 111
    More: Dumbass, President Obama, Randian, entitlement reform, Atlas Shrugged, Saul Alinsky, reasoning, Lisa Miller  
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1580 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Aug 2012 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 10:05:36 AM
I understand that Ryan has described himself that way.

And you're done.
 
2012-08-22 10:35:29 AM

DamnYankees: I understand that Ryan has described himself that way.

And you're done.


And he did so up until this April 2012 NRO interview when he ditched it not because of the philosophy but because of the atheism. This is whitewashing something that was true up until 4 months ago. The fact that his voting record doesn't match Rand merely makes him a hypocrite like every other "conservative" with the anchor of George W. Bush tied around his neck.
 
2012-08-22 10:36:03 AM
profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-22 10:36:05 AM
Every libertarian believes that they are the only libertarian.
 
2012-08-22 10:36:14 AM
Thread over already, lock it up.
 
2012-08-22 10:37:11 AM
Ryan got his stance on women's rights straight out of The Fountainhead.
 
2012-08-22 10:37:11 AM

Lumpmoose: The fact that his voting record doesn't match Rand merely makes him a hypocrite like every other "conservative" with the anchor of George W. Bush tied around his neck.


Seriously. He's either a Randian ideologue or he's a party hack who has no principles. Pick your option.
 
2012-08-22 10:39:09 AM
Libertarians are adorable. Like a feisty, pissed off chihuahua
 
2012-08-22 10:41:52 AM
I can't imagine how much cognitive dissonance one has to have to be a Catholic Objectivist, but has Ryan ever described himself as a libertarian?
 
2012-08-22 10:42:47 AM

DamnYankees: Lumpmoose: The fact that his voting record doesn't match Rand merely makes him a hypocrite like every other "conservative" with the anchor of George W. Bush tied around his neck.

Seriously. He's either a Randian ideologue or he's a party hack who has no principles. Pick your option.


He's both. He's just bad at the first thing, i.e. a hypocrite.

The GOP has been really bad at conservatism lately. First it was the rampant, off-budget spending of Bush and now it's the radical, abrupt policy changes promoted by the Tea Party.
 
2012-08-22 10:43:40 AM
The way true libertarians feel when they hear Ryan described as a Randian is the way true marxists feel when they hear Obama described as a socialist.

But, as others have pointed out, Obama has never claimed to be a socialist, but Ryan has claimed to be a Randian.
 
2012-08-22 10:45:04 AM
I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.
 
2012-08-22 10:46:01 AM

BojanglesPaladin: I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.


It's literally in the first sentence of the article.
 
2012-08-22 10:47:04 AM

DamnYankees: BojanglesPaladin: I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.

It's literally in the first sentence of the article.


Bojangles is the most concerned of all concern trolls. I'm expecting at least three requests for citations from this comment alone.
 
2012-08-22 10:48:42 AM
I, for one, am getting a kick out of libertarians making sure to point out, "Hey whoa, this Paul Ryan guy isn't one of us!"
 
2012-08-22 10:49:49 AM
i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-22 10:50:16 AM
Well, McCarthy certainly used Communism as his driving motivation in politics.
 
2012-08-22 10:52:32 AM
FTFA:
One may honestly believe that if Mr Ryan has his way, America's seniors will be dining on Tender Vittles and expiring in the streets on their rusted, no-longer-Medicare-subsidised Rascal scooters. But there is nothing in his voting record or current proposals to suggest that Mr Ryan intends this result...

Well, that's a relief. I certainly feel better about him now.
 
2012-08-22 10:53:32 AM

sprawl15: DamnYankees: BojanglesPaladin: I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.

It's literally in the first sentence of the article.

Bojangles is the most concerned of all concern trolls. I'm expecting at least three requests for citations from this comment alone.


I expect him to split hairs based on the fact that it says Marxism and not Marx and then declare himself the prettiest one of all.
 
2012-08-22 10:53:53 AM
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: libertarians are the high school goth kids of politics.
 
2012-08-22 10:54:00 AM
I don't know... Ryan seems to fit the mold almost perfectly.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-08-22 10:55:23 AM
Ryan is for big government legislating what goes on inside a uterus. No libertarian would be infavor of that.

Most libertarians I've seen are Republicans who are running away from the Bush legacy.
 
2012-08-22 10:55:53 AM
When Rand said looters, she wasn't isolating that term to government. Ryan and Romney are looters in a way Rand would disapprove of.
 
2012-08-22 10:57:22 AM
i47.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-22 11:00:05 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

You know that little label, the one that says Randian Libertarian? That may not mean anything to you, but it means a hell of a lot to me.
 
2012-08-22 11:01:30 AM

Lumpmoose: DamnYankees: Lumpmoose: The fact that his voting record doesn't match Rand merely makes him a hypocrite like every other "conservative" with the anchor of George W. Bush tied around his neck.

Seriously. He's either a Randian ideologue or he's a party hack who has no principles. Pick your option.

He's both. He's just bad at the first thing, i.e. a hypocrite.

The GOP has been really bad at conservatism lately. First it was the rampant, off-budget spending of Bush and now it's the radical, abrupt policy changes promoted by the Tea Party.


The GOP has never cared about conservatism before; why should they start now? They only care about protecting themselves from the things they fear. The most obvious two are women and non-caucasians.

The end game, however, is to get rid of the entire human race. The evangelicals - who want nothing other than for the world to burn in the fires of the Second Coming - control the GOP, and are using it to move this country closer to a state of unending war, the better to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousand of people a year. In this way, the Christian Republicans offer sacrifice to their bloodthirsty god on his throne of skulls. They look forward to the day when the entire universe collapses in a fiery cataclysm. Only when there is nothing left in the universe will Republicans finally be free of fear.
 
2012-08-22 11:01:48 AM

s2s2s2: When Rand said looters, she wasn't isolating that term to government. Ryan and Romney are looters in a way Rand would disapprove of.


Either way, from a Randian perspective, Ryan and Romney are trying to become looters right now.
 
2012-08-22 11:01:52 AM
Pepperidge Farm remembers...
 
2012-08-22 11:02:06 AM
People really should stop showing their ignorance and calling Ryan a Randian. They are called Objectivists. Get a brain morans.
 
2012-08-22 11:05:33 AM
Can we just call him Paul Rand from now til the election to simplify things?
 
2012-08-22 11:06:30 AM
Randians are stupid. Paul Ryan is stupid. Yet, he is not a Randian nor are Randians Paul Ryan.
 
2012-08-22 11:06:34 AM

Lost Thought 00: Every libertarian believes that they are the only libertarian.



Oh Jesus Christ THIS!

Unique, one of a kind boot strappy snow-flakes that no on one truly understands, everyone of them.
 
2012-08-22 11:08:02 AM
There's a difference between a libertarian and a Randian.

A libertarian believes that it's not the government's place to provide most services because private citizens will get together on their own and perform necessary tasks without the regulation of an external authority. Essentially, they overestimate how good people are and are willing to bet the health of society on that overestimation.

A Randian believes that getting together to perform necessary tasks impossible for an individual is actively evil and to be avoided at all costs, and that private individuals should never contribute to anything they don't get the entirety of the return from. It is an actively psychopathic and self-destructive philosophy that wants everyone to fail.

Sort of the difference between trusting your kids with a babysitter you don't know because you have faith that people are mostly good, and murdering your children to turn them into chow for your hunting dogs because they aren't turning you a profit. One is just a wee bit less respectable as a policy guideline than the other.
 
2012-08-22 11:09:36 AM
Isn't Marx required reading in all Ivy League undergraduate curriculums?

As opposed to Ayn Rand. I heard on NPR somewhere that there is some guy who spends millions giving grants to colleges on the stipulation that they teach Ayn Rand.
 
2012-08-22 11:10:38 AM

DamnYankees: BojanglesPaladin: I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.

It's literally in the first sentence of the article.


*snerk*
 
2012-08-22 11:10:47 AM

AntiNerd: Isn't Marx required reading in all Ivy League undergraduate curriculums?

As opposed to Ayn Rand.


Marx is, at least, interesting reading in a historical sense.

Ayn Rand is just masturbatory psychobabble wrapped around Mary Sues.
 
2012-08-22 11:11:44 AM
I remember when Romney stated that Prescott Bush inspired him to get into business.

/just as valid
 
2012-08-22 11:12:20 AM
Why are some of you so offended by Libertarians? I would think you would at least prefer us to the Republicans. I really liked the goth analogy earlier. And I can't get enough of that Ron Paul pic where he is sitting all alone looking so sad. I love the guy but that pic is solid gold.

You may find that we are not so different you dirty-hippie, commie farklibs™. We want to end all the "wars" and legalize pot too. Can't we all just get along? We're not all gun-toting, constitution-reciting farkwads. But I cannot deny that I do love goooooooooooooold!
 
2012-08-22 11:13:44 AM
So we shouldn't describe Ryan as "Randian" even though he used the term to describe himself, because he doesn't act in a way that is considered "Randian?" I guess we are also supposed to stop describing former President G.W.Bush as a "Christian" too.
 
2012-08-22 11:14:30 AM
Based on his actual positions I proposed we refer to Paul Ryan as dipshiatian.
 
2012-08-22 11:15:20 AM

skullkrusher: Yet, he is not a Randian nor are Randians Paul Ryan.


Enh, he self-identifies as a Randian. You might not think he's a Randian, but he sure as hell does.
 
2012-08-22 11:16:01 AM

AntiNerd: Isn't Marx required reading in all Ivy League undergraduate curriculums?


For political science and late 19th/20th century history classes, sure. It's not a gen ed requirement basically anywhere, but it's considered pretty vital background into understanding the specifics of the time period and its major social conflicts.

The originating documents of capitalism are a bit more spread-out, since it was an economic system long before it was a coherent philosophy. Plus, it's got a lot more variants that went into widespread use with political implications, likely because, unlike communism, it actually works and shiat.

As opposed to Ayn Rand. I heard on NPR somewhere that there is some guy who spends millions giving grants to colleges on the stipulation that they teach Ayn Rand.

There's a foundation that grants undergrad scholarships if you write a paper on her two doorstoppers. Most of the recipients write the paper, take the money, and then never think about it again, possible saying something like "thanks for the free money, SUCKERS" in their thank-you note.

//Which, to be fair, is a pretty Randian thing to do.
 
2012-08-22 11:16:06 AM

DamnYankees: BojanglesPaladin: I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama and/or Marx.

It's literally in the first sentence of the article.


Sorry. I meant to say I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama citing Marx as an inflence.

Yes. the author DID mention both Obama and Marx.

/Also, I don't think that Ryan is an objectovist or a 'Randian', although it is absurd to argue that Ryan's worlview is not at least in part influenced by his reading of Ayn Rand. But that does not mean he ascribes to every one of her tenants.
 
2012-08-22 11:19:37 AM

The Homer Tax: skullkrusher: Yet, he is not a Randian nor are Randians Paul Ryan.

Enh, he self-identifies as a Randian. You might not think he's a Randian, but he sure as hell does.


if he self identified as a moderate, would you call him a moderate?
 
2012-08-22 11:19:59 AM

Saiga410: People really should stop showing their ignorance and calling Ryan a Randian. They are called Objectivists. Get a brain morans.


Incorrect - Objectivists embrace Rand's existential philosophy. The people we usually refer to as "Randians" are people who attempt to apply her political philosophies without accepting or understanding her existential philosophy.
 
2012-08-22 11:20:12 AM

magusdevil: So we shouldn't describe Ryan as "Randian" even though he used the term to describe himself, because he doesn't act in a way that is considered "Randian?" I guess we are also supposed to stop describing former President G.W.Bush the entire Republican party as a "Christian" too.


FTFY.
 
2012-08-22 11:20:39 AM

AntiNerd: Isn't Marx required reading in all Ivy League undergraduate curriculums?

As opposed to Ayn Rand. I heard on NPR somewhere that there is some guy who spends millions giving grants to colleges on the stipulation that they teach Ayn Rand.


Quite a challenge. I think it would be hard to get her to pay attention to the teachers.
 
2012-08-22 11:22:04 AM

HeartBurnKid: magusdevil: So we shouldn't describe Ryan as "Randian" even though he used the term to describe himself, because he doesn't act in a way that is considered "Randian?" I guess we are also supposed to stop describing former President G.W.Bush the entire Republican party as a "Christian" too.

FTFY.


You are correct.
 
2012-08-22 11:23:07 AM

sprawl15: AntiNerd: Isn't Marx required reading in all Ivy League undergraduate curriculums?

As opposed to Ayn Rand.

Marx is, at least, interesting reading in a historical sense.

Ayn Rand is just masturbatory psychobabble wrapped around Mary Sues.


The Communist Manifesto is also, like, 40 pages long. If you don't like it, you can throw it without hurting someone.
 
2012-08-22 11:23:59 AM

BojanglesPaladin: Sorry. I meant to say I missed the part where there was a mention of Obama citing Marx as an inflence.


I can't speak for the submitter, but I think what he was getting at was when the author of TFA tried to compare "Obama is a Marxist!" comments to "Ryan is an Objectivist!" comments he was comparing apples to oranges because Obama has never self-identified as a Marxist, while Ryan has self-identified as an Objectivist, even vociferously so over the course of his long political career.

BojanglesPaladin: /Also, I don't think that Ryan is an objectovist or a 'Randian', although it is absurd to argue that Ryan's worlview is not at least in part influenced by his reading of Ayn Rand. But that does not mean he ascribes to every one of her tenants.


They mostly disagree on religion, but they line up on a lot of other things. Furthermore *the guy calls himself that*. At some point, we have to be allowed to call people things that they call themselves, right? It's called the "no true scottsman *fallacy*" for a reason.
 
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