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(The Citizen)   Assange: I'll come to Sweden to answer the allegations if Sweden promises not to extradite me to the US. Sweden: Well, since America is calling all the shots here, we'll have to ask them first to see if we are allowed to do that   (thelocal.se ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Julian Assange, Sweden, british court, Swedish law, justice ministry, allegations, state secrets  
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2590 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Aug 2012 at 8:45 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-22 08:20:12 AM  
No extradition request by the US exists.
 
2012-08-22 08:31:23 AM  

hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.


Yet.
 
2012-08-22 08:31:46 AM  

hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.


This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.
 
2012-08-22 08:34:03 AM  

Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.


Here's more.
 
2012-08-22 08:48:26 AM  
We have to guarantee that he wouldn't face the death penalty? That shouldn't be too hard. I doubt Manning will get the death penalty, and Assange can't even be considered a traitor (since he declared to loyalty to the US in the first place).
 
2012-08-22 08:51:22 AM  

Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.


Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?
 
2012-08-22 08:52:08 AM  
The Swedes have been offered all sorts of compromises and turned them all down. Assange hasn't been charged with a crime he is only wanted for questioning but the Swedes have turned down the offer to question him by video conference or in person in the Ecuadorian embassy. I don't know why but they seem fixated on have him in Sweden for some reason.
 
2012-08-22 08:53:27 AM  

Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?


for all we know, the US might very well have asked the UK to extradite Assange...there isn't any documentation on it either way. not in the public domain anyways. At any rate, Assange himself felt he was in danger so he ran to embassy row to hide out and avoid being hauled off to gitmo.
 
2012-08-22 08:55:08 AM  

Cheron: The Swedes have been offered all sorts of compromises and turned them all down. Assange hasn't been charged with a crime he is only wanted for questioning but the Swedes have turned down the offer to question him by video conference or in person in the Ecuadorian embassy. I don't know why but they seem fixated on have him in Sweden for some reason.


because you can't extradite a video conference.
 
2012-08-22 09:00:00 AM  

Cheron: The Swedes have been offered all sorts of compromises and turned them all down. Assange hasn't been charged with a crime he is only wanted for questioning but the Swedes have turned down the offer to question him by video conference or in person in the Ecuadorian embassy. I don't know why but they seem fixated on have him in Sweden for some reason.


Apparently, the Swedish criminal law system works a bit differently than the ones we're used to - there, people get charged only right before trial, rather than our system of charge-then-investigate. In view of that, the fact that he hasn't been charged is not dispositive of anything.
 
2012-08-22 09:04:17 AM  

Weaver95: Cheron: The Swedes have been offered all sorts of compromises and turned them all down. Assange hasn't been charged with a crime he is only wanted for questioning but the Swedes have turned down the offer to question him by video conference or in person in the Ecuadorian embassy. I don't know why but they seem fixated on have him in Sweden for some reason.

because you can't extradite a video conference.


Has Sweden ever questioned a criminal suspect by video conference or in a foreign country's embassy? Is their turning down of his demands really that unusual, and since when is a country required to compromise with a suspect?
There's one example of Sweden traveling to a foreign country to interview a suspect, but in that one, the suspect was in prison facing different charges by that country, so it's a bit different than a video interview or an interview at a foreign country's embassy.
 
2012-08-22 09:04:26 AM  

Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?


I've wondered that too. The UK seems eager to extradite him to Sweden. Of course the way it is now, even if we have no intention of extraditing him, Assange is virtually a prisoner.
 
2012-08-22 09:06:11 AM  

Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.


That says indictment, not extradition request. Of course, the former is a prerequisite for the latter, but as of yet, as hinten said, there's no apparent extradition request.
 
2012-08-22 09:06:55 AM  

Weaver95: Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?

for all we know, the US might very well have asked the UK to extradite Assange...there isn't any documentation on it either way. not in the public domain anyways. At any rate, Assange himself felt he was in danger so he ran to embassy row to hide out and avoid being hauled off to gitmo.


It just seems that since the UK and Swedish have the same extradition conditions with the US it would be far easier to get him out of the UK if the US were going to press for extradition. That and the fact public opinion in Sweden would never allow him to be extradited until he is cleared or stands trail for the charges he faces there.

I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.
 
2012-08-22 09:08:47 AM  

Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?


The UK already has the reputation of being the poodle of the USA. That would not help them in that regard.
 
2012-08-22 09:09:41 AM  

padraig: Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?

The UK already has the reputation of being the poodle of the USA. That would not help them in that regard.


You think the Swedes want that reputation? Seems kind of far-fetched.
 
2012-08-22 09:13:54 AM  

Carth: Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment.


Well, copyright infringement is a very serious crime. It's not like companies lose money if someone gets sexually assaulted.
 
2012-08-22 09:19:22 AM  

Carth: I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.


He's on Ecuadorian soil and Ecuador won't do it.
 
2012-08-22 09:25:20 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Carth: I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.

He's on Ecuadorian soil and Ecuador won't do it.


That's only the past month. I think the question was why the US didn't extradite him in, say, July. Or march. Or last year.
 
2012-08-22 09:27:37 AM  

Theaetetus: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

That says indictment, not extradition request. Of course, the former is a prerequisite for the latter, but as of yet, as hinten said, there's no apparent extradition request.


I think it's safe to assume that once Assange gets to sweden, he'll have a quick turnaround to US soil. our government seems to have its ducks in a row for that contingency.

Assange *really* pissed off the US government. one does not do such a thing and get away with it.
 
2012-08-22 09:29:32 AM  

Theaetetus: thurstonxhowell: Carth: I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.

He's on Ecuadorian soil and Ecuador won't do it.

That's only the past month. I think the question was why the US didn't extradite him in, say, July. Or march. Or last year.


As I understand it, Assange was doing his best to stay off the radar as much as possible. that might have played into it. I don't think we'll ever know the whole story on the US manhunt for Assange though.
 
2012-08-22 09:32:16 AM  
Generally, I believe a woman claiming rape.  But this story is just too convienent.  Assange was setup.  He's a douche, just not a rapist douche.  And I'm pretty sure the US is behind it as the headline says.  
 
2012-08-22 09:35:23 AM  

Weaver95: Theaetetus: thurstonxhowell: Carth: I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.

He's on Ecuadorian soil and Ecuador won't do it.

That's only the past month. I think the question was why the US didn't extradite him in, say, July. Or march. Or last year.

As I understand it, Assange was doing his best to stay off the radar as much as possible. that might have played into it. I don't think we'll ever know the whole story on the US manhunt for Assange though.


I have a feeling we'll get his side of the story as soon as he writes a book. He is too much of an attention whore to let this opportunity pass by.
 
2012-08-22 09:36:05 AM  
On the bright side Sweden will apologize 50 years later
 
2012-08-22 09:42:45 AM  
"Swedish legislation does not provide for guarantees."
 
2012-08-22 09:42:49 AM  
I love how they keep saying "sex crime" and such when in the end it was consensual sex but the condom broke or wasn't used...

Everytime the media talks about this they make it out like he raped the shiat out of multiple girls
 
2012-08-22 09:48:58 AM  
This is why The Local is a tabloid rag. What it alleges in the headline is not what the quote is about. Sweden isn't saying they'd need to ask the US, they are clarifying their general extradition policy, and doing so only after being asked about it. But that's boring, so The Local cooked it up a little to make it sell better. They do that a lot, and it leads me to believe that the bulk of their staff grew up reading The Daily Mail. Whatever the cause, they're a bunch of hacks.

Assange is right in fearing extradition to the US. And if he is in custody on Swedish soil, the door for that will be wide open. Sweden has shown a willingness to do America's dirty work of late - something that Swedes aren't too keen on, but also something that doesn't have too much political risk, other than a few high-minded editorials and a protest or two by people who vote Left or Pirate Party and would be protesting anyway. I don't know if the Swedes intend to sell him out, but it would not surprise me. However, this article does nothing for that sort of speculation, despite what its publisher wants it to sound like.
 
2012-08-22 09:52:26 AM  

I_C_Weener: Generally, I believe a woman claiming rape.  But this story is just too convienent.  Assange was setup.  He's a douche, just not a rapist douche.  And I'm pretty sure the US is behind it as the headline says.


if being a planetary sized asshole were a crime, Assange would be guilty as hell...but I'd have to agree: setting up Assange for a sex scandal is SOP. destroy his reputation, then yank him off stage once nobody is paying attention. once the US gets hold of him, then can use all sorts of things to break him down. just because its fun.
 
2012-08-22 09:56:25 AM  

KellyX: I love how they keep saying "sex crime" and such when in the end it was consensual sex but the condom broke or wasn't used...

Everytime the media talks about this they make it out like he raped the shiat out of multiple girls


If someone agrees to have protect sex with you and you secretly don't use protection they didn't consent.
 
2012-08-22 10:01:10 AM  

KellyX: I love how they keep saying "sex crime" and such when in the end it was consensual sex but the condom broke or wasn't used...

Everytime the media talks about this they make it out like he raped the shiat out of multiple girls


I agree that it seems somewhat over-played by the media, and if the condom really did just 'break' that one is kind of messed up. The one where he just kind of went 'condom, oh yeah, it's definitely on, no worries', however....eh, I'm okay with him facing charges on that. As you said, it's not the giant monstrous crime they're trying to make it out to be, but...yeah. A couple of months of picking up trash in an orange jumper I could get behind.
 
2012-08-22 10:21:37 AM  
swahnhennessy: This is why The Local is a tabloid rag. What it alleges in the headline is not what the quote is about. Sweden isn't saying they'd need to ask the US, they are clarifying their general extradition policy, and doing so only after being asked about it. But that's boring, so The Local cooked it up a little to make it sell better. They do that a lot, and it leads me to believe that the bulk of their staff grew up reading The Daily Mail. Whatever the cause, they're a bunch of hacks.

Assange is right in fearing extradition to the US. And if he is in custody on Swedish soil, the door for that will be wide open. Sweden has shown a willingness to do America's dirty work of late - something that Swedes aren't too keen on, but also something that doesn't have too much political risk, other than a few high-minded editorials and a protest or two by people who vote Left or Pirate Party and would be protesting anyway. I don't know if the Swedes intend to sell him out, but it would not surprise me. However, this article does nothing for that sort of speculation, despite what its publisher wants it to sound like.


You mean like with this guy?
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-22 10:22:34 AM  

swahnhennessy: Assange is right in fearing extradition to the US. And if he is in custody on Swedish soil, the door for that will be wide open.


What was the state of this metaphorical door over the last year or so that Assange has been in the UK, known to authorities, and prohibited to leave the country by order of a UK court?

How is being in the UK -- which has a relatively liberal extradition treaty with the US -- any better than being in Sweden?
 
2012-08-22 10:25:53 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe:
I agree that it seems somewhat over-played by the media, and if the condom really did just 'break' that one is kind of messed up. The one where he just kind of went 'condom, oh yeah, it's definitely on, no worries', however....eh, I'm okay with him facing charges on that. As you said, it's not the giant monstrous crime they're trying to make it out to be, but...yeah. A couple of months of picking up trash in an orange jumper I could get behind.


I wouldn't mind either if I thought he was really just being asked about his questionable sex practices. But it seems more like a good way to get Assange into custody, then no one would ever see him again. He's pissed off too many people.

Thanks, Obama! This is the sort of thing that makes me want to vote third-party. We know the U.S. is pulling a whole lot of strings in this affair, while pretending to stand aside and make speeches about "freedom."
 
2012-08-22 10:26:11 AM  

Latinwolf: You mean like with this guy?


Sweden != Switzerland.

Also, according to the New York Times, on 12 July 2010 the Swiss rejected the U.S. request, declared him a "free man" and released him from custody.
 
2012-08-22 10:26:41 AM  

GameSprocket: We have to guarantee that he wouldn't face the death penalty? That shouldn't be too hard. I doubt Manning will get the death penalty, and Assange can't even be considered a traitor (since he declared to loyalty to the US in the first place).


Assange looks like a pervy douche to me, but there's no death penalty for that. The only thing the US could be expected to charge him with that carries a possible death sentence is espionage and that would be a real stretch. Manning is an actual traitor and prosecutors have so far declined to seek the death penalty.
 
2012-08-22 10:32:16 AM  

cryinoutloud: I wouldn't mind either if I thought he was really just being asked about his questionable sex practices. But it seems more like a good way to get Assange into custody, then no one would ever see him again. He's pissed off too many people.


Bullshiat. The Walkers did way more damage than this guy and they are rotting quietly away in prison.

But they get visitors.

So people see them.
 
2012-08-22 10:35:28 AM  

Carth: Weaver95: hinten: No extradition request by the US exists.

This says otherwise. apparently, there's been a sealed US extradition request for Assange since 2010-ish.

Why wouldn't the US just ask the UK to extradite him? The UK is willing to extradite its own citizens over copyright infringment. Why is Assange more likely to be extradited from Sweden than the UK?


Yeah, that's the bit that makes no sense to me. If you're scared of US extradition, the UK is not the place you run to.

I remain convinced that he's just using the wikileaks saga as a way to muddy the waters and avoid being prosecuted in Sweden, and it's working brilliantly, because apparently most of the people who support Wikileaks have some sort of messiah complex and can't possibly imagine their darling Julian ever doing anything wrong at all.
 
2012-08-22 10:38:25 AM  
FTFA: Swedish law and the European human rights convention ratified by Sweden ban extradition of a defendant to a country where he could face the death penalty.

He would seem to have his guarantee.

Oh, wait, he just wants to not be tried in the US at all, the death penalty is just a canard.
 
2012-08-22 10:42:41 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Carth: I just don't get why the US would wait this long if they really wanted to extradite him.

He's on Ecuadorian soil and Ecuador won't do it.


He is not on Ecuadorian soil, Embassies are not considered part of the country they represent, they are just not normally entered by representatives of the host government without invitation due to international convention/agreement and the potential of a tit for tat reciprocation if that were breached (except in certain extraordinary situations where it would seem reasonable to breach the convention, like maybe the Iranian Embassy siege).
 
2012-08-22 10:51:21 AM  
If the US wanted him they would have him. The conspiracy theorist on me thinks he either has damning info on the US...or we are afraid he does.
 
2012-08-22 10:55:11 AM  

Weaver95: I think it's safe to assume that once Assange gets to sweden, he'll have a quick turnaround to US soil. our government seems to have its ducks in a row for that contingency.


Weaver95: As I understand it, Assange was doing his best to stay off the radar as much as possible. that might have played into it. I don't think we'll ever know the whole story on the US manhunt for Assange though.


Manhunt? He's been under house arrest in the UK for a year and a half, doing multiple appeals against his extradition to Sweden. He's certainly not been "off the radar", nor has the US been doing a manhunt for him.

And that's why I still don't get this "as soon as he gets to Sweden, Sweden will send him to the US" thing. He hasn't been hiding, and the UK has even more extensive extradition treaties with the US and is a much closer ally than Sweden. Heck, Sweden isn't even part of NATO!
 
2012-08-22 11:03:59 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin:
I remain convinced that he's just using the wikileaks saga as a way to muddy the waters and avoid being prosecuted in Sweden, and it's working brilliantly, because apparently most of the people who support Wikileaks have some sort of messiah complex and can't possibly imagine their darling Julian ever doing anything wrong at all.


I don't hear anyone saying that he never did anything wrong. I do hear even a lot of his supporters saying that he's a douchebag (including me.) But what he's being hounded over is not having inappropriate sex.

I have no problem with a person using extraordinary means to avoid being railroaded. I am getting a kick out of seeing entire countries whining about how he's broken the rules, while they're doing every underhanded thing they can think of to try to get him to disappear.
 
2012-08-22 11:07:29 AM  
L&O had an episode like this. Tried to get a someone extradited from Canada on a murder charge, but Canada denied extradition because of the death penalty potential, so instead the DA filed a new extradition request on an assault or burglary charge. Extradition granted. Charged him with murder once he walked on to US soil. Ta-da. There's your template.

Anyways, what Assange did doesn't warrant the death penalty(though cheerily confirming his leaks resulted in thousands of deaths warrants its own horrifying penalties, but that isn't the issue here).
 
2012-08-22 11:09:31 AM  

cryinoutloud: I have no problem with a person using extraordinary means to avoid being railroaded. I am getting a kick out of seeing entire countries whining about how he's broken the rules, while they're doing every underhanded thing they can think of to try to get him to disappear.


Underhanded things to get him to disappear? Like what, exactly? They've followed procedural law. There is nothing underhanded about it. Let me know when a CIA agent shoots him in the arm instead of the chest or they cut the brakes on his car and his accident doesn't kill him, because that would be underhanded.
 
2012-08-22 11:36:07 AM  
A little comparison is in order here.

www.awesomestories.com
This is Nathan Hale. He was hanged by the British for spying. When captured, he stood by his actions, and when he was asked what his final words would be at the gallows, he reportedly said, "My only regret is that I have but one life to give for my country." In other words, not only did he not regret screwing the British over, he wanted to do it until time stopped.

www.bradleymanning.org
This is Bradley Manning. He got bored while on station in Iraq, leaked documents to a website instead of going to his superiors with evidence of war crimes, and betrayed his fellow soldiers. Instead of standing by his cause, he's complaining about "torture" and says his gender identity disorder drove him to his actions. 

Whether you like the causes of these two individuals is irrelevant. One knew the odds and played the game anyways. The other has no spine.
 
2012-08-22 11:37:30 AM  

zenmhunter: If the US wanted him they would have him. The conspiracy theorist on me thinks he either has damning info on the US...or we are afraid he does.


Something tells me he doesn't. For a guy that "loves crushing bastards" and wants absolutely no secrets, it's weird that he'd play something this close to the vest.
 
2012-08-22 11:51:31 AM  

bhcompy:
Underhanded things to get him to disappear? Like what, exactly? They've followed procedural law. There is nothing underhanded about it. Let me know when a CIA agent shoots him in the arm instead of the chest or they cut the brakes on his car and his accident doesn't kill him, because that would be underhanded.


Right, it's perfectly common for several countries to become involved in a minor sex charges scandal. A scandal that broke, coincidentally, right about when Assange started really pissing off people like the U.S. of A.
 
2012-08-22 11:52:52 AM  

Marine1: Whether you like the causes of these two individuals is irrelevant. One knew the odds and played the game anyways. The other has no spine


One was supposed to be awarded a fair trial and some basic human rights based on a few constitutional guarantees and was instead tortured and shut up in a cell naked without any charges for months.

When you trample on some of the most basic human rights protections of your own law, you deserve to be betrayed.
 
2012-08-22 11:53:56 AM  

cryinoutloud: bhcompy:
Underhanded things to get him to disappear? Like what, exactly? They've followed procedural law. There is nothing underhanded about it. Let me know when a CIA agent shoots him in the arm instead of the chest or they cut the brakes on his car and his accident doesn't kill him, because that would be underhanded.

Right, it's perfectly common for several countries to become involved in a minor sex charges scandal. A scandal that broke, coincidentally, right about when Assange started really pissing off people like the U.S. of A.


A scandal that broke because he stuck his unprotected dick where it wasn't approved in a country with very strict laws against that. The scandal itself is the break countries were waiting for, not the other way around.
 
2012-08-22 11:59:13 AM  

cptjeff: Marine1: Whether you like the causes of these two individuals is irrelevant. One knew the odds and played the game anyways. The other has no spine

One was supposed to be awarded a fair trial and some basic human rights based on a few constitutional guarantees and was instead tortured and shut up in a cell naked without any charges for months.

When you trample on some of the most basic human rights protections of your own law, you deserve to be betrayed.


Okay, so let's say that being forced to be naked when you're in the brig for espionage is torture.

What would everyone say if this guy had made a noose out of his clothes and hanged himself? Remember, he's in there on charges of spying and they haven't figured out if he's a double agent yet. People like that tend to kill themselves in order to not give others up.
 
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