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(Michigan Capitol Confidential)   "Public Sector Unions do not bloat budgets with unnecessary jobs" says the official horseshoer of the Detroit Water Department   (michigancapitolconfidential.com) divider line 131
    More: Asinine, Detroit Water Department, public sector unions, Detroit, Detroit Police Department, Budget Planning  
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7634 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2012 at 2:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-20 01:02:42 PM
Truthfully, we know that that it takes 2 people to operate a backhoe on a remote city street. However, if there were an accident -that 3rd guy sitting around watching comes in handy when he calls for help.

Anti-union people don't care about a possible accident because socialism.
 
2012-08-20 01:18:36 PM
FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.
 
2012-08-20 01:23:46 PM
What if a water main breaks during a game of horseshoes? You're going to look pretty foolish if you don't have a horseshoe guy.
 
2012-08-20 01:28:55 PM

beantowndog: What if a water main breaks during a game of horseshoes? You're going to look pretty foolish if you don't have a horseshoe guy.


Words of wisdom my friend.
 
2012-08-20 01:33:27 PM

Dumski: FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.


Health insurance is expensive.
 
2012-08-20 01:37:25 PM

wxboy: Dumski: FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.

Health insurance is expensive.


And pension contributions.
 
2012-08-20 01:38:41 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: However, if there were an accident -that 3rd guy sitting around watching comes in handy when he calls for help.


or if the backhoe throws a shoe.
 
2012-08-20 01:40:37 PM
Based on the particular 'leanings' of the website, I remain skeptical that the whole truth and nothing but the truth is being told.

To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...
 
2012-08-20 01:41:42 PM
"Waah! I chose a job in the private sector, spent years voting against my own economic interests, destroyed any bargaining power I used to have and am now reaping the rewards of being underpaid by at least 50%! D'X waaah"

D'X WAAAH WAAAAAAAAH

/only 23.8% joking
 
2012-08-20 01:42:09 PM
Ha ha! Detroit!
 
2012-08-20 02:14:37 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Based on the particular 'leanings' of the website, I remain skeptical that the whole truth and nothing but the truth is being told.

To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...


Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.
 
2012-08-20 02:27:32 PM

timujin: Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.


Exactly -- it sounds like this is more of an issue of outdated and absurd work rules than a surplus of unnecessary workers (though the two often go hand in hand.)
 
2012-08-20 02:28:00 PM
and SJP doesn't even live in Michigan
 
2012-08-20 02:29:17 PM

timujin: To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...


Do they do anything else?
 
2012-08-20 02:29:26 PM
The author of the article has a good point. Clearly we all agree the city needs people who "repair equipment and work with various metals and welding for the department when needed." But to give one of those people the title "official horseshoer" is too far. This clearly is worthy of all of our outrage and we should demand he have his title changed to immediately rectify the situation.

That's what we're calling for here right?
 
2012-08-20 02:30:19 PM
But that one day they need a horseshoe guy............
he'll be out on a disability
 
2012-08-20 02:30:32 PM

MrEricSir: timujin: Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.

Exactly -- it sounds like this is more of an issue of outdated and absurd work rules than a surplus of unnecessary workers (though the two often go hand in hand.)


Detroit police still use horses, might be prudent to keep a blacksmith around.
 
2012-08-20 02:31:43 PM
My first thought was, "If the department uses horses, then having a horseshoer on the payroll makes good sense.

*RTFA*

WAT.
 
2012-08-20 02:32:38 PM
Maybe the job title is misspelled? Maybe it should be Whore Shooer? You know keeping the whores away from fountains and hydrants.
 
2012-08-20 02:33:19 PM

timujin: I_Am_Weasel: Based on the particular 'leanings' of the website, I remain skeptical that the whole truth and nothing but the truth is being told.

To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...

Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.


Yup. The name of the guy's job is outdated. But that doesn't mean he sits around all day doing nothing. He does other work in the shop, welding things and fixing broken crap. But, his official title is "horseshoer," so this means the union is preventing an unnecessary position from being cut. Christ. Rename the job to Maintenance technician or something, and be done with it.
 
2012-08-20 02:33:26 PM
I know privatize it. Pay the horseshoe guy minimum wage and make 400,000off the sucker taxpayers. Also the govt didnt help me. Don't forget that!
 
2012-08-20 02:33:35 PM

lennavan: The author of the article has a good point. Clearly we all agree the city needs people who "repair equipment and work with various metals and welding for the department when needed." But to give one of those people the title "official horseshoer" is too far. This clearly is worthy of all of our outrage and we should demand he have his title changed to immediately rectify the situation.

That's what we're calling for here right?


I think the part of the article where they talk about he number of people takes to run the dept vs larger cities is the real point of the argument.
 
2012-08-20 02:34:02 PM

adiabat: Because People in power are Stupid: However, if there were an accident -that 3rd guy sitting around watching comes in handy when he calls for help.

or if the backhoe throws a shoe.


Are you calling your mother a hoe?
 
2012-08-20 02:34:13 PM
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

The guy needs to update his resume. I hear Google pays twice that for an apprentice horseshoer.


and / or

The misread the job description. He's supposed to shoo the horse away. Look around. Do you see any horses? That guy should get a massive raise.
 
2012-08-20 02:34:55 PM

mcreadyblue: Detroit police still use horses, might be prudent to keep a blacksmith around.


Yeah, but in the water department?
 
2012-08-20 02:36:07 PM
Best job I've ever seen was the guy that was in charge of not mowing the grass. It was a Navy base that had re-forestation areas, with signs that said DO NOT MOW! His job was to make sure someone didn't slip out there and try to mow the grass. Had an office and jeep too.
 
2012-08-20 02:36:26 PM

Millennium


mcreadyblue: Detroit police still use horses, might be prudent to keep a blacksmith around.

Yeah, but in the water department?


Soon they will unlock the secret to leading a horse to water and then making him drink.
 
2012-08-20 02:37:15 PM

Dumski: FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.


In Detroit, that makes him, like, a Prince, or at least a Duke. I'm not sure, but I believe he is entitled to prima nocta and a dozen raccoon pelts whenever one of the city's urban hunters wishes to marry.
 
2012-08-20 02:37:40 PM

jaybeezey: lennavan: The author of the article has a good point. Clearly we all agree the city needs people who "repair equipment and work with various metals and welding for the department when needed." But to give one of those people the title "official horseshoer" is too far. This clearly is worthy of all of our outrage and we should demand he have his title changed to immediately rectify the situation.

That's what we're calling for here right?

I think the part of the article where they talk about he number of people takes to run the dept vs larger cities is the real point of the argument.


No, the real point of the argument is to destroy unions. This guy's job is important but his title is ridiculous, therefore we should destroy unions.

"Union rules have turned the department into a government jobs program, some critics say."
"As the bureaucracy thickens and union power grows, there is always a built in reflex ... to want more."
"But critics say this is just another example of city departments operating as a jobs program for union employees." - Had to say it twice in case you missed it the first time.
"collective bargaining turns government into a provider of jobs instead of public services."
 
2012-08-20 02:38:00 PM

timujin: I_Am_Weasel: Based on the particular 'leanings' of the website, I remain skeptical that the whole truth and nothing but the truth is being told.

To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...

Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.


But if a horse did lose a shoe, he'd be on it!
 
2012-08-20 02:38:01 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Millennium

mcreadyblue: Detroit police still use horses, might be prudent to keep a blacksmith around.

Yeah, but in the water department?


Soon they will unlock the secret to leading a horse to water and then making him drink.


The secret is to walk the horse around so long that it's seriously dehydrated.
 
2012-08-20 02:38:13 PM
The only positive thing I received from the articles I have read on this story is that they found the job on the books in the first place. Mismanagement is only part of the problem.
 
2012-08-20 02:43:03 PM
Here is a better article on it. Link
 
2012-08-20 02:44:00 PM
There could be other reasons they employ twice the employees per gallon as other cities. Such as: The city's infrastructure was designed to support 3 million people, and now only supports 700,000, but still must be maintained. No money to implement upgrades that would save money over the long term.
 
2012-08-20 02:45:32 PM
I thought you were making the last part up.
 
2012-08-20 02:45:38 PM

Old Smokie: timujin: To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...

Do they do anything else?


Make you mad?
 
2012-08-20 02:46:29 PM
Maybe, like, we could have a few laws that limit union corruption? Nah, just do away with collective bargaining all together, what good did that ever do for anyone, anyway?
 
2012-08-20 02:46:43 PM

Dumski: FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.


Detroit Free Press says: "He noted later that the person in the job also was classified as a welder, which was his main job."

No word if this person collects two salaries.
 
2012-08-20 02:47:23 PM

lennavan: The author of the article has a good point. Clearly we all agree the city needs people who "repair equipment and work with various metals and welding for the department when needed." But to give one of those people the title "official horseshoer" is too far. This clearly is worthy of all of our outrage and we should demand he have his title changed to immediately rectify the situation.

That's what we're calling for here right?


"the local union president said it is "not possible" to eliminate positions."

FTFA. In other words, there are probably more than a few people who are being shoehorned into some job that might not be needed, but they can't get rid of them. And of course they will use the employee to do something. If you've ever worked for a government agency they will use every dime of the money they get just in case someone looks at the budget from the last year and says "hey, they did all their duties with 90% of their budget, looks like we can eliminate 10% of their budget next year."
 
2012-08-20 02:47:26 PM
While Unions have issues and complaints, I'm entirely unconvinced they are as wasteful or as unnecessary as republicans wish they were. They do indeed sometimes protect morons. But without pensions, without wage minimums and protections, many, many people would be in deep shiat, and frankly, that alone could cost us many, many, many jobs.
 
2012-08-20 02:47:41 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Millennium

mcreadyblue: Detroit police still use horses, might be prudent to keep a blacksmith around.

Yeah, but in the water department?


Soon they will unlock the secret to leading a horse to water and then making him drink.


Nice. I LOL'd.
 
2012-08-20 02:47:44 PM

Greek: timujin: I_Am_Weasel: Based on the particular 'leanings' of the website, I remain skeptical that the whole truth and nothing but the truth is being told.

To be sure, unions can help protect useless people, but...

Also, if you read waaaay down to the end of the article, it seems that while the guy's title might be "horseshoer," he actually works in the blacksmith's shop in their mechanical services department, which "repairs equipment and works with various metals and welding for the department when needed," rather than just sitting around all day waiting for a horse to lose a shoe.

Yup. The name of the guy's job is outdated. But that doesn't mean he sits around all day doing nothing. He does other work in the shop, welding things and fixing broken crap. But, his official title is "horseshoer," so this means the union is preventing an unnecessary position from being cut. Christ. Rename the job to Maintenance technician or something, and be done with it.


Your point is valid once you show that there are not already multiple staff with job titles such as "welder", "technician", "farrier", "assembler" or any other list of people who can or do functionally the same tasks. (not that you need to go and get a list for me but thanks for offering). I have strong suspicions that there are more than enough qualified employees that can do the job that cuts can be made or there are more than enough unqualified employees on the payroll that should be cut.
 
2012-08-20 02:48:15 PM
The horseshoer is the guy that brands "fark You" on the butts of all the union employees.
 
2012-08-20 02:48:53 PM

lennavan: jaybeezey: lennavan: The author of the article has a good point. Clearly we all agree the city needs people who "repair equipment and work with various metals and welding for the department when needed." But to give one of those people the title "official horseshoer" is too far. This clearly is worthy of all of our outrage and we should demand he have his title changed to immediately rectify the situation.

That's what we're calling for here right?

I think the part of the article where they talk about he number of people takes to run the dept vs larger cities is the real point of the argument.

No, the real point of the argument is to destroy unions. This guy's job is important but his title is ridiculous, therefore we should destroy unions.

"Union rules have turned the department into a government jobs program, some critics say."
"As the bureaucracy thickens and union power grows, there is always a built in reflex ... to want more."
"But critics say this is just another example of city departments operating as a jobs program for union employees." - Had to say it twice in case you missed it the first time.
"collective bargaining turns government into a provider of jobs instead of public services."


You did read where the union head said they were understaffed, while the independent consultant said they needed to cut 80% of their staff based on service area and size, right? I think that's where the "jobs program" description comes from.
 
2012-08-20 02:49:07 PM

Dumski: FTFA:
"The city pays $29,245 in salary and about $27,000 in benefits for the horseshoer position."

WTF.


I know that the guy who does my horses would be ecstatic to have a income of $56,245 without having to do any horses! He frequently gets kicked, stepped on, hand ripped open with a nail he didn't get clinched before the horse jerked its hoof away, and other interesting tales that make me glad I'm not a farrier.
 
2012-08-20 02:50:03 PM
Maybe it's one of those old fashioned terms that used for a new technology. Maybe he makes the feet for this guy:

cavebabble.pnrnetworks.popcornnroses.com
 
2012-08-20 02:51:35 PM
Call him a farrier.

Problem solved
 
2012-08-20 02:51:59 PM
I recently delt with a public sector union. Experience was actually quite good.

My Dad worked for the DOJ as an enlisted-rank personal, and thus was a member of the union. When he died at work, thankfully not KIA, the union was one of the first to give us a call, and was a tremendous help when it came to getting around town/the airport, organizing the memorial, and getting us any paperwork, benefits, etc done as quickly as possible. Even got a small survivors benefit that helped pay plane tickets.

the officers were also very helpful, and really helped things along as well.
 
2012-08-20 02:52:59 PM

superdude72: There could be other reasons they employ twice the employees per gallon as other cities. Such as: The city's infrastructure was designed to support 3 million people, and now only supports 700,000, but still must be maintained. No money to implement upgrades that would save money over the long term.


There's that, and the additional fact that most of the suburbs get their water from DWSD, making for a much larger infrastructure to be maintained.
 
2012-08-20 02:54:22 PM

cig-mkr: Best job I've ever seen was the guy that was in charge of not mowing the grass. It was a Navy base that had re-forestation areas, with signs that said DO NOT MOW! His job was to make sure someone didn't slip out there and try to mow the grass. Had an office and jeep too.


All he needed were a few "warning minefield" signs and a hammer.
 
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