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(Daily Kos)   Nearly 60 years ago yesterday, the CIA launched a series of coups to overthrow Iran's democratic government and install the very theocracy that it's now trying to take down today   (dailykos.com) divider line 79
    More: Fail, CIA, Iran, human beings, democracy, shahs, American Embassy, Russian Empire, Americans Elect  
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1251 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Aug 2012 at 2:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-20 11:18:59 AM
And all of this involves Churchill, two US Presidents, a descendent of Teddy R., and the formation of British Petroleum (albeit with blood soaked hands).

Kind of fascinating, in a way. But, typical of American foreign interventions - we create a mess that we come back to years later to try and undo.
 
2012-08-20 11:19:22 AM
Well, that worked out just great didn't it. Plus we learned all kinds of valuable lessons about tinkering in the affairs of sovereign states didn't we? It's been a real win-win
 
2012-08-20 11:21:57 AM
Yes, but they were going to rule their country in the interests of the Iranian people, not interest of our oil companies!
 
2012-08-20 11:24:17 AM
not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.
 
2012-08-20 11:33:40 AM

FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.


FlashHarry is right. Headline fail. nice read though.
 
2012-08-20 11:35:46 AM
"Once again, the U.S. is spending millions to oust a puppet they spent millions to get into office. They'll spend more millions on the coverup to hide having spent those millions and even more millions to discredit members of the media who report otherwise. Its a good thing they print their own money."
 
2012-08-20 11:42:08 AM

yeomanfarmer: FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.

FlashHarry is right. Headline fail. nice read though.


though you might say that iran could have a thriving democracy today if we hadn't farked with it back in the 50s.
 
2012-08-20 11:48:00 AM

FlashHarry: yeomanfarmer: FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.

FlashHarry is right. Headline fail. nice read though.

though you might say that iran could have a thriving democracy today if we hadn't farked with it back in the 50s.


A valid point. Technically, the real theocracy didn't come in until 1979, but it likely would have never gotten off the ground if we had setup a weak puppet before then.
 
2012-08-20 12:02:39 PM
The Iranians don't hate us for our freedoms. They hate us because we came into their country and took a gigantic dump all over their democracy.
 
2012-08-20 12:12:33 PM
Add this to the ever growing list of "things American screwed up because omg the Commies".
 
2012-08-20 12:13:40 PM

FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.


Came to say this.
 
2012-08-20 12:37:37 PM
"Ajax a Success! Tehran is ours! Merry X-mas from Mommy and Uncle Kermit."
 
2012-08-20 12:47:13 PM
i.imgur.com
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to this headline. I award you negative points, subby, and may God have mercy on your soul
 
2012-08-20 12:51:29 PM
Last time I visited my mom she started going off about how she thinks the Iranian people are little better than animals. I googled some pics of 1970s era Iran to show her and explained a bit of the history of what happened back then.

She was shocked. The 5 minute history lesson wouldn't have had the same impact if I hadn't shown her the pictures. The pics of 1970s young people that didn't look any different than the pictures of my mom and her friends at that time.

Mom doesn't think of the Iranian people as animals anymore. She no longer wants to bomb the shiat out of 'em. Baby steps, I guess.

/css
 
2012-08-20 12:57:01 PM

penthesilea: Last time I visited my mom she started going off about how she thinks the Iranian people are little better than animals. I googled some pics of 1970s era Iran to show her and explained a bit of the history of what happened back then.

She was shocked. The 5 minute history lesson wouldn't have had the same impact if I hadn't shown her the pictures. The pics of 1970s young people that didn't look any different than the pictures of my mom and her friends at that time.

Mom doesn't think of the Iranian people as animals anymore. She no longer wants to bomb the shiat out of 'em. Baby steps, I guess.

/css


Print this out
The Politics of the U.S. Economic Sanctions against Iran

Operation Ajax is one part of the story - and its quite relegated to its own time 60 years ago. It gets very different from that plot line for the last 25 years. Very different.
 
2012-08-20 01:03:43 PM
The Iranians helped put Ronald Reagan in the White House, a catastrophe from which America has not yet recovered.
 
2012-08-20 01:10:50 PM

Party Boy: Print this out
The Politics of the U.S. Economic Sanctions against Iran

Operation Ajax is one part of the story - and its quite relegated to its own time 60 years ago. It gets very different from that plot line for the last 25 years. Very different.


Oh yeah, I know. Thanks for the link.
I have to go slow and careful with this stuff. My mom is a Tea Party-ish type and too much info at once can spook 'em.
 
2012-08-20 01:14:54 PM
I RTFA and now feel sick to my stomach.
 
2012-08-20 01:15:28 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Add this to the ever growing list of "things American screwed up because omg the Commies".


That could be, but that's not what the article said (which is very similar to the Wiki (which for some reason I was reading two days ago.))

The article lays it first at WWII when the British and Soviets wanted a supply line to the Eastern Front and then the article lays it down as a threat to have what we now love as British Petroleum nationalized by Iran.

But I grant you that if the CIA was involved and it was in the 50s, omg commies probably did have a major role to play.
 
2012-08-20 01:17:17 PM

RoyBatty: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Add this to the ever growing list of "things American screwed up because omg the Commies".

That could be, but that's not what the article said (which is very similar to the Wiki (which for some reason I was reading two days ago.))

The article lays it first at WWII when the British and Soviets wanted a supply line to the Eastern Front and then the article lays it down as a threat to have what we now love as British Petroleum nationalized by Iran.

But I grant you that if the CIA was involved and it was in the 50s, omg commies probably did have a major role to play.


My point being, if I have a point, that OMG COMMIES was probably a better reason for this US CIA dumbassery than SAVE BRITISH PETROLEUM.
 
2012-08-20 01:25:28 PM

RoyBatty: RoyBatty: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Add this to the ever growing list of "things American screwed up because omg the Commies".

That could be, but that's not what the article said (which is very similar to the Wiki (which for some reason I was reading two days ago.))

The article lays it first at WWII when the British and Soviets wanted a supply line to the Eastern Front and then the article lays it down as a threat to have what we now love as British Petroleum nationalized by Iran.

But I grant you that if the CIA was involved and it was in the 50s, omg commies probably did have a major role to play.

My point being, if I have a point, that OMG COMMIES was probably a better reason for this US CIA dumbassery than SAVE BRITISH PETROLEUM.


No, I see where you're going with that, and it's a fair point to make. Although, (and hindsight is always 20/20), the NATO (and the US esp.) undertook a lot of foreign interventions to "stop the commies", and very little good came out of those collective efforts. It's easy to say now, but looking back, if the Feds knew how ineffective the Soviets would be at holding on to their sphere of influence, they'd probably not been as aggressive as they were.
 
2012-08-20 01:42:55 PM

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 480x360]
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to this headline. I award you negative points, subby, and may God have mercy on your soul


I couldn't figure out if the tag was made in jest or in earnest.

/the former? well played.
//the latter? tardmonkey'd.
 
2012-08-20 01:58:40 PM

FlashHarry: yeomanfarmer: FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.

FlashHarry is right. Headline fail. nice read though.

though you might say that iran could have a thriving democracy today if we hadn't farked with it back in the 50s.


That would have been cool. They were so close. FTFA: Mossadegh also was a secularist, a proponent of workers' and women's rights, and an avid defender of basic political and social freedoms. More ominously, for the British, Mossadegh wanted to nationalize Anglo-Iranian.
Having known a couple of Iranians, I'd much rather have them as friends than enemies.
 
2012-08-20 02:04:21 PM
" nationalize Anglo-Iranian Oil Company." Was what was supposed to be posted. This phone and my eyes sometimes can't get it together.
 
2012-08-20 02:08:57 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: No, I see where you're going with that, and it's a fair point to make. Although, (and hindsight is always 20/20), the NATO (and the US esp.) undertook a lot of foreign interventions to "stop the commies", and very little good came out of those collective efforts. It's easy to say now, but looking back, if the Feds knew how ineffective the Soviets would be at holding on to their sphere of influence, they'd probably not been as aggressive as they were.


It seems there are two kinds of spy novels. In the first kind, the CIA is this super-secret super-capable agency that can work wonders. In the second kind, the CIA is this super-secret incredibly incompetent always law breaking agency that blunders from one stupid, greedy, murderous act to another all of which often seem to fail.

And then there's actually reading the history of some of the more documented and spectacular blunders and comparing those to some of the amazing stories involving U2s, SR-71s, satellite imagery, or spy games in the arctic or secretly raising submarines that are documented successes.

I've never quite been able to reconcile these two different images, but it makes watching Burn Notice a bit more amusing.
 
2012-08-20 02:19:48 PM

penthesilea: Party Boy: Print this out
The Politics of the U.S. Economic Sanctions against Iran

Operation Ajax is one part of the story - and its quite relegated to its own time 60 years ago. It gets very different from that plot line for the last 25 years. Very different.

Oh yeah, I know. Thanks for the link.
I have to go slow and careful with this stuff. My mom is a Tea Party-ish type and too much info at once can spook 'em.


By the way, congratulations.

That is a very difficult thing to do. I'm impressed.
 
2012-08-20 02:33:26 PM
Tag is for subby.
 
2012-08-20 02:48:13 PM

penthesilea: Last time I visited my mom she started going off about how she thinks the Iranian people are little better than animals. I googled some pics of 1970s era Iran to show her and explained a bit of the history of what happened back then.

She was shocked. The 5 minute history lesson wouldn't have had the same impact if I hadn't shown her the pictures. The pics of 1970s young people that didn't look any different than the pictures of my mom and her friends at that time.

Mom doesn't think of the Iranian people as animals anymore. She no longer wants to bomb the shiat out of 'em. Baby steps, I guess.

/css



CSB:

My roommate immigrated from Iran back in 2005.

/Bonus: He's Jewish.
//So he was beyond lucky to "get the f*ck out of Dodge".
 
2012-08-20 02:52:37 PM
Subby, that's ridiculous. We just installed the puppet government that allowed the theocracy a chance to thrive. Totally different.
 
2012-08-20 02:53:31 PM
So what you're saying is that Dwight Eisenhower was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood?
 
2012-08-20 02:53:57 PM

yeomanfarmer: Having known a couple of Iranians, I'd much rather have them as friends than enemies.


same here. plus their women are hawt.

one of the dumbest self-inflicted wounds of the bush administration was his placing iran in the "axis of evil." they were on the path to an early arab spring - possibly a peaceful one. more than half the country was under 30 and had no memory of the shah or any loyalty to the uprising. if you looked out over the rooftops of tehran, you'd see a sea of "banned" satellite dishes that were sucking down western culture by the terabyte. it wasn't until that fateful speech that the hardliners were able to seize power. can you imagine a free and democratic iran right in the middle of the middle east? the oil? the straits of hormuz? the bulwark against syria and iraq? the hawt women?
 
2012-08-20 02:54:57 PM
It wasn't all the CIA's fault. We had a lot of British help as well with f*cking that place up
 
2012-08-20 02:57:24 PM

FlashHarry: yeomanfarmer: Having known a couple of Iranians, I'd much rather have them as friends than enemies.

same here. plus their women are hawt.

one of the dumbest self-inflicted wounds of the bush administration was his placing iran in the "axis of evil." they were on the path to an early arab spring - possibly a peaceful one. more than half the country was under 30 and had no memory of the shah or any loyalty to the uprising. if you looked out over the rooftops of tehran, you'd see a sea of "banned" satellite dishes that were sucking down western culture by the terabyte. it wasn't until that fateful speech that the hardliners were able to seize power. can you imagine a free and democratic iran right in the middle of the middle east? the oil? the straits of hormuz? the bulwark against syria and iraq? the hawt women?


For the Iranians, it was mind boggling to be lumped with their long time enemy Iraq.

Thanks, dumbass David Frum.
 
2012-08-20 02:58:49 PM

Lost Thought 00: It wasn't all the CIA's fault. We had a lot of British help as well with f*cking that place up


Most historians would say that we actually did it at the behest of the British. Mossadeq wasn't anything to be proud of. Neither was the Shah. Both were preferable to the clerics who've run the place since 1979.
 
2012-08-20 03:00:00 PM
the CIA answers to no one. supposedly the Congress, but that is doubtful too.
 
2012-08-20 03:01:48 PM

Aarontology: Yes, but they were going to rule their country in the interests of the Iranian people, not interest of our oil companies!


they have oil in Iran? man, when are we gonna' get some?
 
2012-08-20 03:02:34 PM

FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.


I think that was what the Fail tag was for.
 
2012-08-20 03:04:46 PM
we're building a Theocracy in America as we speak. what's the big deal? JesusLand is coming!

If Obama would just convert to Christianity it shore would hep things a bit. hee hehe. {insert redneck southern dialect here}
 
2012-08-20 03:13:09 PM

Linux_Yes: Aarontology: Yes, but they were going to rule their country in the interests of the Iranian people, not interest of our oil companies!

they have oil in Iran? man, when are we gonna' get some?


We could already be getting some...if not for the US led embargo on Iranian oil, which (besides making good political points with Israel), is contributing to oil market tension in the EU and Asia markets.
 
2012-08-20 03:14:21 PM

Party Boy: Thanks, dumbass David Frum.


the sad thing is, he's bit of an apostate these days and not completely insane. but i wonder if he stares at the ceiling at night realizing that his greatest claim to fame is also one of the greatest foreign-policy blunders of the early 21st century.
 
2012-08-20 03:16:21 PM

FlashHarry: the sad thing is, he's bit of an apostate these days and not completely insane. but i wonder if he stares at the ceiling at night realizing that his greatest claim to fame is also one of the greatest foreign-policy blunders of the early 21st century.


I wonder how sane he is when I read how unrepentant he is for that particular bit of crap. The amount of self delusion is only surpassed by Douglass "the dumbest farking guy on the planet" Feith
 
2012-08-20 03:19:18 PM

Polly Ester: FlashHarry: not quite. they installed the shah, who was deposed in 1979 by the very theocracy we have today.

I think that was what the Fail tag was for.


Subby fail-tagged his own headline?
 
2012-08-20 03:26:42 PM
Iranic.
 
2012-08-20 03:29:47 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Add this to the ever growing list of "things American screwed up because omg the Commies".


Don't forget greed, that's a big one!

Overthrowing democratically elected governments because they won't give you all their natural resources is a specialty of the U.S. government.

I think it was the current Bolivian president who said, "Where there is a US ambassador, there is a coup".
 
2012-08-20 03:31:47 PM

Lego_Addict: Overthrowing democratically elected governments because they won't give you all their natural resources is a specialty of the U.S. government.


This is throttled and dead explanation for Iraq, and its not very descriptive for whats going on here.
 
2012-08-20 03:32:55 PM
Iranian chicks are hot.

Until they get old. Icky.

Hairy moles.
 
2012-08-20 03:33:02 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The Iranians helped put Ronald Reagan in the White House, a catastrophe from which America has not yet recovered.


So they still owe us then?

/october farking surprise. full on treason more like it.
//and Ollie North was invovled in the rescue attempt....
 
2012-08-20 03:35:04 PM
How awesome would a free, western style, open Iran be? I mean, The super hot ladies alone. mother of god.
 
2012-08-20 03:35:58 PM

hurdboy: Lost Thought 00: It wasn't all the CIA's fault. We had a lot of British help as well with f*cking that place up

Most historians would say that we actually did it at the behest of the British. Mossadeq wasn't anything to be proud of. Neither was the Shah. Both were preferable to the clerics who've run the place since 1979.


A joint venture, the U.S. had the means and the British had the lay of the land. The U.S. had already taken charge of world affairs from the British by then so they led the charge.

Mossadeq wasn't great but he was democratically elected by the people of Iran.
 
2012-08-20 03:37:36 PM

Linux_Yes: the CIA answers to no one. supposedly the Congress, but that is doubtful too.


And thank God for that. We'd already be bombing Tehran if the CIA was still answering its phones.
 
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