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(RamblingBeachCat.com)   Oliver Stone didn't include her in the movie, but Dorothy Kilgallen might be the most important missing piece in the JFK assassination puzzle   ( ramblingbeachcat.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, JFK Assassination, Dorothy Kilgallen, Oliver Stone, suspicious death, JFK, Warren Commission, Lee Harvey Oswald  
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7126 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Aug 2012 at 11:30 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-20 11:07:08 AM  
From TFA:

One of Kilgallen's biggest "gets," however, was when she was able to interview Jack Ruby alone. For any of you that don't follow history or watch Oliver Stone movies, Ruby was the man that killed Lee Harvey Oswald (President John F. Kennedy's alleged assassin) on live television...and then died a few months later due to a pulmonary embolism while suffering from lung cancer.


He did die approximately 50 months after his arrest, and that is quite a few months.

I guess the writer must have been born in the 1990s.
 
2012-08-20 11:22:04 AM  
The biggest reason she wasn't in the film was because the actress portraying her annoyed Stone by repeatedly asking "What's My Line?".
 
2012-08-20 11:25:48 AM  
"Might be". Yes, if there were missing pieces.
 
2012-08-20 11:43:36 AM  
If I remember correctly, a lot of people connected to the assassination died mysterious deaths.
Most were supposedly suicide too.
 
2012-08-20 11:45:09 AM  
Clearly this is ironclad proof. She OD'd in a room she never slept in...obviously the work of a vast conspiracy.
 
2012-08-20 11:51:27 AM  
I don't think this is ironclad proof of a conspiracy, but anti-conspiracy advocates are kidding themselves if they honestly believe the official record is reality and there isn't something more going on with the whole deal.
 
2012-08-20 11:53:40 AM  
I love how they 'theorize' about her being injected with cancer cells, when they acknowledge the cause of death was an OD.

Anyhoo, here's a debunking. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death4.htm
 
2012-08-20 11:54:11 AM  
FTA Dorothy Kilgallen was found dead in the city of New York on November 8, 1965. The very next day, the Northeast Blackout cut power throughout the evening to a large portion of Canada and the northeastern United States...including New York City.

That was the government covering up Kilgallen's death.
I remember that blackout but didn't realize it was that long ago. Jeeze
 
2012-08-20 11:58:06 AM  

Lady Indica: I love how they 'theorize' about her being injected with cancer cells, when they acknowledge the cause of death was an OD.

Anyhoo, here's a debunking. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death4.htm


You fail at reading comprehension.
 
2012-08-20 12:01:29 PM  
Is JFK still dead?

After this many years, such a vast and wide conspiracy never had anyone leave a confession or otherwise come forward?

Yeah, JFK was killed by a lone nut, and the nation has used the conspiracy theories around JFK's assassination as a balm to soothe the collective consciousness.
 
2012-08-20 12:02:11 PM  

Sid_6.7: "Might be". Yes, if there were missing pieces.


Nope. No missing pieces at all. Classified tax documents aren't missing, they're there. Just... ya know classified. Can't count those as missing pieces, no sir.
 
2012-08-20 12:07:08 PM  

meat0918: Is JFK still dead?

After this many years, such a vast and wide conspiracy never had anyone leave a confession or otherwise come forward?

Yeah, JFK was killed by a lone nut, and the nation has used the conspiracy theories around JFK's assassination as a balm to soothe the collective consciousness.


E. Howard Hunt, one of the Nixon Plumbers, made a deathbed confession that the U.S. government killed Kennedy. Surprisingly, this was not widely reported.

Link
 
2012-08-20 12:18:37 PM  

Nickster79: meat0918: Is JFK still dead?

After this many years, such a vast and wide conspiracy never had anyone leave a confession or otherwise come forward?

Yeah, JFK was killed by a lone nut, and the nation has used the conspiracy theories around JFK's assassination as a balm to soothe the collective consciousness.

E. Howard Hunt, one of the Nixon Plumbers, made a deathbed confession that the U.S. government killed Kennedy. Surprisingly, this was not widely reported.

Link


And Steve Jobs supposedly converted to Christianity on his death bed. Link

Pardon me if I am dubious about deathbed confessions, given that the confessor is unable to back up their statements, what with being dead and all.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-20 12:27:13 PM  

El Uno Magnifico: I don't think this is ironclad proof of a conspiracy, but anti-conspiracy advocates are kidding themselves if they honestly believe the official record is reality and there isn't something more going on with the whole deal.


How does one become an "anti-conspiracy advocate"? The burden of proof has always been upon conspiracy claimants, and they've failed to fulfill that burden for nearly fifty years. Vague claims of "more going on" are just meaningless hot air. It's the same sort of reasoning used by truthers, birthers, and moon landing conspiracy nuts. The simplest explanation of Oswald acting alone has withstood decades of scrutiny and still stands as the most reasonable.
 
2012-08-20 12:33:02 PM  

Sybarite: El Uno Magnifico: I don't think this is ironclad proof of a conspiracy, but anti-conspiracy advocates are kidding themselves if they honestly believe the official record is reality and there isn't something more going on with the whole deal.

How does one become an "anti-conspiracy advocate"? The burden of proof has always been upon conspiracy claimants, and they've failed to fulfill that burden for nearly fifty years. Vague claims of "more going on" are just meaningless hot air. It's the same sort of reasoning used by truthers, birthers, and moon landing conspiracy nuts. The simplest explanation of Oswald acting alone has withstood decades of scrutiny and still stands as the most reasonable.


t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-08-20 12:35:18 PM  
I always thought this was cleared up.

It was Roger McDowell over by the gravely road
 
2012-08-20 12:39:59 PM  

El Uno Magnifico: anti-conspiracy advocates are kidding themselves if they honestly believe the official record is reality and there isn't something more going on with the whole deal.


But there's no credible evidence of a conspiracy after 50 years, and the simplest and most elegant explanation remains that of Oswald acting alone. There's tons of innuendo and half-baked theories put out by people looking to sell books, but no matter how large the cloud of "what if" is, it isn't the same as evidence. The conspiracy theorists are the ones kidding themselves.
 
2012-08-20 12:47:53 PM  
*Most* important piece?

How about CE 399, the 'magic' bullet, which magically was undamaged after killing Kennedy and wounding Connally?

How about 'reverse trajectory momentum', the concept introduced in the Warren Report by Arlen Specter, which allows a bullet to stop in mid-air, back up, and take another route?

How about Abraham Bolden, the Secret Service agent who was fired and thrown in the jail after trying to expose a similiar plot in Chicago?

How about the fact that Kennedy's throat wound was an entrance wound and the doctors at Parkland Hospital said so?

The list goes on and on. But no doubt some snarky FARK commenters here know better.
 
2012-08-20 12:50:32 PM  

wiredroach:
But there's no credible evidence of a conspiracy after 50 years.


Step one: declare any thought of conspiracy ridiculous and incredible.
Step two: Any evidence of conspiracy is therefore incredible.
Step three: WIN.
 
2012-08-20 12:52:59 PM  

heinrich66: *Most* important piece?

How about CE 399, the 'magic' bullet, which magically was undamaged after killing Kennedy and wounding Connally?


Anyone who thinks that the magic bullet is implausible has never been to Dealy Plaza.

The road the motorcade was going down is significantly sloped, much moreso than is apparent in
any film or picture, and if Oswald was the shooter (and I believe he was), then a shot from the 6th
floor would very easily have done all that damage in one straight line.
 
2012-08-20 12:53:56 PM  
Worst Photoshop ever
media-2.web.britannica.com
 
2012-08-20 12:56:27 PM  

heinrich66: wiredroach:
But there's no credible evidence of a conspiracy after 50 years.

Step one: declare any thought of conspiracy ridiculous and incredible.
Step two: Any evidence of conspiracy is therefore incredible.
Step three: WIN.


Any evidence there you've not pulled out of your ass?
 
2012-08-20 01:03:16 PM  
I thought the most important missing piece was the crime scene itself.

Don't worry, though. I know a guy who knows a guy who told me it's in a basement vault in Cincinnati.
 
2012-08-20 01:10:56 PM  

meat0918: Is JFK still dead?


This explains it all.

//ok maybe not but it's a fun movie
 
2012-08-20 01:11:34 PM  

MrBonestripper: I thought the most important missing piece was the crime scene itself.

Don't worry, though. I know a guy who knows a guy who told me it's in a basement vault in Cincinnati.


Didn't PeeWee Herman find it in the basement of the Alamo?
 
2012-08-20 01:12:11 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet:

Any evidence there you've not pulled out of your ass?


You might want to start with the mountains of declassified information obtained by the ARRB (Assassination Records Review Board). But then you'd have to actually ease up with the internet snark and learn something.
 
2012-08-20 01:14:32 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Anyone who thinks that the magic bullet is implausible has never been to Dealy Plaza.


You're right. The laws of physics behave differently there. For example, when Arlen Specter appeals to (in the Warren Commission Report) the phenomenon of 'reverse trajectory momentum', which he uses to explain how the magic bullet could stop in mid-air, back up, and then plunge again into a body.
 
2012-08-20 01:17:02 PM  

heinrich66: Step one: declare any thought of conspiracy ridiculous and incredible.
Step two: Any evidence of conspiracy is therefore incredible.
Step three: WIN.


I didn't do anything of the kind...it's certainly reasonable to think JFK was killed by a conspiracy--he was a powerful man with lots of enemies. There just isn't any evidence to credibly advance the theory.

heinrich66: How about CE 399, the 'magic' bullet, which magically was undamaged after killing Kennedy and wounding Connally?


The bullet wasn't magic at all; it sustained flattening and partial ejection of its lead core after having passed through the soft tissue of Kennedy's throat, tumbling in mid-air, then striking Connally's back, rib, wrist and thigh. A recent recreation using a highly-accurate anatomical surrogate confirmed this result. And this bullet didn't kill Kennedy; the third and final round fired into the back of his head was the fatal shot.

How about 'reverse trajectory momentum', the concept introduced in the Warren Report by Arlen Specter, which allows a bullet to stop in mid-air, back up, and take another route?

It does nothing of the kind. Conspiracy theorists rely on an incorrect placement of Kennedy and Connally in the limousine to perpetuate the myth that the bullet "stopped" or altered its trajectory in mid-air. This has been thoroughly refuted by accurate computer modeling with the men in their correct positions in the car as shown in the Zapruder film.

How about Abraham Bolden, the Secret Service agent who was fired and thrown in the jail after trying to expose a similiar plot in Chicago?

I don't know anything about this story...does it have any relevance?

How about the fact that Kennedy's throat wound was an entrance wound and the doctors at Parkland Hospital said so?

This is incorrect, and for the doctors to mistake the throat wound as be an entrance wound, the "exit" wound in the back of JFK's neck would have to be larger than the "entrance" wound at his throat and exhibit outward tearing. Given JFK's posture in the car, such a wound could only have been created by a round fired from the area to the front of the limousine (and underground), as the wound on the back of the neck is higher than the wound on the throat. This presumed sniper's position does not exist, as the Zapruder film pans across the entire area without revealing any such location, and the storm drains along Elm Street don't provide a vantage point. The round would essentially have to have come from inside the car, which would make either Mrs. Connally or the driver the assassin.

The list goes on and on. But no doubt some snarky FARK commenters here know better.

Some of us know a little.
 
2012-08-20 01:18:26 PM  
smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net
 
2012-08-20 01:19:20 PM  

heinrich66: ThatGuyFromTheInternet:

Any evidence there you've not pulled out of your ass?

You might want to start with the mountains of declassified information obtained by the ARRB (Assassination Records Review Board). But then you'd have to actually ease up with the internet snark and learn something.


You sir, are an expert in avoiding snark.
 
2012-08-20 01:20:16 PM  
Everybody should watch the Mythbusters episodes where they demonstrate that the bullet was not magic and that Oswald could have easily and most likely did act alone. Unless of course you believe the
Mythsbusters are part of the conspiracy.

/ Largest conspiracy ever! It makes the Manhattan Project look like 10 guys.
 
2012-08-20 01:21:38 PM  

heinrich66: DjangoStonereaver: Anyone who thinks that the magic bullet is implausible has never been to Dealy Plaza.

You're right. The laws of physics behave differently there. For example, when Arlen Specter appeals to (in the Warren Commission Report) the phenomenon of 'reverse trajectory momentum', which he uses to explain how the magic bullet could stop in mid-air, back up, and then plunge again into a body.


As I thought: you've never been to Dealy Plaza.
 
2012-08-20 01:29:48 PM  

wiredroach: Some of us know a little.


This is a cute little essay. But it was Arlen Specter himself (Warren Commission) who introduced the term 'reverse trajectory momentum' into the Report. Take a look.

Second, all the computer modeling in the world won't save you if you start from (intentionally) false assumptions. The doctors at Parkland described the throat wound as an entrance wound. Denying that requires that you say they were incompetent to an unusual degree. Additionally, the wound in the back -- as a matter of record -- was moved up to the neck by Gerald Ford, no less, in order to make things 'more precise' in the Warren Commission Report. Ford admitted this himself. The object here was to make the entrance wound in the throat appear to be an exit wound. The hole in the back of Kennedy's well-tailored suit jacket show clearly where the shot to the back came in.

It would be really heartening -- and amazing -- if Americans came to grips with their history, and stopped pretending it was cartoon-like mythology. The Kennedy coup was an ugly event. There is abundant evidence that the official story is false, whatever the truth was. Time to grow up.
 
2012-08-20 01:31:14 PM  

wiredroach: it's certainly reasonable to think JFK was killed by a conspiracy


So you admit it! HAH! IN YOUR FACE!
 
2012-08-20 01:33:53 PM  

heinrich66: wiredroach: Some of us know a little.

This is a cute little essay. But it was Arlen Specter himself (Warren Commission) who introduced the term 'reverse trajectory momentum' into the Report. Take a look.

Second, all the computer modeling in the world won't save you if you start from (intentionally) false assumptions. The doctors at Parkland described the throat wound as an entrance wound. Denying that requires that you say they were incompetent to an unusual degree. Additionally, the wound in the back -- as a matter of record -- was moved up to the neck by Gerald Ford, no less, in order to make things 'more precise' in the Warren Commission Report. Ford admitted this himself. The object here was to make the entrance wound in the throat appear to be an exit wound. The hole in the back of Kennedy's well-tailored suit jacket show clearly where the shot to the back came in.

It would be really heartening -- and amazing -- if Americans came to grips with their history, and stopped pretending it was cartoon-like mythology. The Kennedy coup was an ugly event. There is abundant evidence that the official story is false, whatever the truth was. Time to grow up.


WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Am I right?
 
2012-08-20 01:36:13 PM  

trotsky: heinrich66: wiredroach: Some of us know a little.

This is a cute little essay. But it was Arlen Specter himself (Warren Commission) who introduced the term 'reverse trajectory momentum' into the Report. Take a look.

Second, all the computer modeling in the world won't save you if you start from (intentionally) false assumptions. The doctors at Parkland described the throat wound as an entrance wound. Denying that requires that you say they were incompetent to an unusual degree. Additionally, the wound in the back -- as a matter of record -- was moved up to the neck by Gerald Ford, no less, in order to make things 'more precise' in the Warren Commission Report. Ford admitted this himself. The object here was to make the entrance wound in the throat appear to be an exit wound. The hole in the back of Kennedy's well-tailored suit jacket show clearly where the shot to the back came in.

It would be really heartening -- and amazing -- if Americans came to grips with their history, and stopped pretending it was cartoon-like mythology. The Kennedy coup was an ugly event. There is abundant evidence that the official story is false, whatever the truth was. Time to grow up.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Am I right?


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-08-20 01:37:49 PM  
Funny how Jamie and Adam were able recreate precisely Kennedy's wounds using a rifle identical to Oswald's..

Are there problems with the Warren report? Absolutely nothing designed by a committee is flawless.
Did they get the most important and relevant parts correct? Absolutely!
 
2012-08-20 01:39:30 PM  

heinrich66: wiredroach: Some of us know a little.

This is a cute little essay. But it was Arlen Specter himself (Warren Commission) who introduced the term 'reverse trajectory momentum' into the Report. Take a look.

Second, all the computer modeling in the world won't save you if you start from (intentionally) false assumptions. The doctors at Parkland described the throat wound as an entrance wound. Denying that requires that you say they were incompetent to an unusual degree. Additionally, the wound in the back -- as a matter of record -- was moved up to the neck by Gerald Ford, no less, in order to make things 'more precise' in the Warren Commission Report. Ford admitted this himself. The object here was to make the entrance wound in the throat appear to be an exit wound. The hole in the back of Kennedy's well-tailored suit jacket show clearly where the shot to the back came in.

It would be really heartening -- and amazing -- if Americans came to grips with their history, and stopped pretending it was cartoon-like mythology. The Kennedy coup was an ugly event. There is abundant evidence that the official story is false, whatever the truth was. Time to grow up.


Actually, the world of conspiracy is the cartoon-like mythology, with sinister shadowy men. It's more comforting to think you have a grasp on secrets that only the converted know. A world where a dumb farkup, multiple time loser like Oswald isn't just a malcontent that killed JFK of his own accord. No, a whole shadow cabal has to be involved for such a world changing event.

www.brendanemmettquigley.com
 
2012-08-20 01:40:58 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: From TFA:

One of Kilgallen's biggest "gets," however, was when she was able to interview Jack Ruby alone. For any of you that don't follow history or watch Oliver Stone movies, Ruby was the man that killed Lee Harvey Oswald (President John F. Kennedy's alleged assassin) on live television...and then died a few months later due to a pulmonary embolism while suffering from lung cancer.


He did die approximately 50 months after his arrest, and that is quite a few months.

I guess the writer must have been born in the 1990s.


It doesn't say he died a few months after the shooting, it says he died a few months after she interviewed him, which could have been several years after the shooting and only a few months before he died.
 
2012-08-20 01:41:56 PM  

Delawheredad: Funny how Jamie and Adam were able recreate precisely Kennedy's wounds using a rifle identical to Oswald's..

Are there problems with the Warren report? Absolutely nothing designed by a committee is flawless.
Did they get the most important and relevant parts correct? Absolutely!


What people don't know, that with Oswald's million to one shot, is that he took the scope off his Carcano and trusted to a voice telling him to use the force. Shoot, he used to bullseye swamp rats back in Cuba, and the President wasn't much larger than that.
 
2012-08-20 01:43:19 PM  
I love how a bunch of astute and always-ready-with-a-quip Internet denizens will appeal to Mythbusters, a TV-show, as their authority on the Kennedy assassination.
 
2012-08-20 01:45:46 PM  
I've always believed that the assassination happened under the direction of the Smoking Man. And he has a great time machine.

i90.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-20 01:46:53 PM  

heinrich66: The hole in the back of Kennedy's well-tailored suit jacket show clearly where the shot to the back came in.


So a round didhit JFK in the back, despite there being only one "entrance" wound in the front of his body? Sounds reasonable. Why would Ford fabricate evidence? The jacket was bunched up above JFK's neckline, possibly as a result of the back brace he wore.

heinrich66: The doctors at Parkland described the throat wound as an entrance wound.


One did. He's refuted by the others and by the autopsy pathologists. But I'm sure they're all part of the conspiracy.
 
2012-08-20 01:49:05 PM  
heinrich66 l

I love how a bunch of astute and always-ready-with-a-quip Internet denizens will appeal to Mythbusters, a TV-show, as their authority on the Kennedy assassination.

And I love how faceless entities on the internet point to vague rumor mongering as "proof" that there was a conspiracy yet when test results using scientific methods prove that Oswald most likely acted alone it gets ignored.
 
2012-08-20 01:53:12 PM  

Fano: Actually, the world of conspiracy is the cartoon-like mythology, with sinister shadowy men. It's more comforting to think you have a grasp on secrets that only the converted know. A world where a dumb farkup, multiple time loser like Oswald isn't just a malcontent that killed JFK of his own accord. No, a whole shadow cabal has to be involved for such a world changing event.


Can be. Doesn't have to be. I don't draw any deep titillating joy at the knowledge that political conspiracies exist, any more than from knowing that three punks conspired to hold up a liquor store down the street last night. A conspiracy is a banal fact. It isn't the site of mystical secrets or special knowledge.

There's a mighty taboo in the U.S. against supposing that political conspiracies exist. Maybe it's a holdover from an old belief that the system is meant to work for 'us'. But the taboo is there -- as the above post reflects: only nuts who 'need to believe' in shadowy figures could *possibly* go in for a theory like, say, the Kennedy murder was a right-wing coup. Or that, say, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a fraud. --Oh, this latter is a historical fact now? Nevermind.
 
2012-08-20 01:55:00 PM  

Delawheredad: Everybody should watch the Mythbusters episodes where they demonstrate that the bullet was not magic and that Oswald could have easily and most likely did act alone. Unless of course you believe the
Mythsbusters are part of the conspiracy.


I just searched for a few minutes and can't find any episodes of mythbusters about the JFK assasination.
 
2012-08-20 01:55:25 PM  
Here's a decent article on the subject from a fairly mainstream and 'credible' source. But linking to it may also be 'vague rumormongering':

http://www.salon.com/2004/09/15/warren/
 
2012-08-20 01:55:50 PM  

talkertopc: just searched for a few minutes and can't find any episodes of mythbusters about the JFK assasination.


The government erased them.
 
2012-08-20 01:58:30 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

I'll bet she didn't see it coming.
 
2012-08-20 01:59:09 PM  
Since it was a "Right Wing' coup how about naming names and illuminating facts. Oh that's right you can't do that we just have to accept your word that it was a right wing coup.

/What an astounding cabal. They kept their secret for nearly fifty years. No one blabbed. No documents leaked out. nobody inadvertently let the cat out of the bag. The ONLY time in American history such a secret has been successfully kept!
 
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