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(Yahoo)   Inmate sues jail for $11 million, claiming that being forced to work in the prison laundry for $0.25/hr amounted to slavery. Difficulty: he mave have a point since he was incarcerated pre-trial and charges against him were dropped   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 166
    More: Interesting, University of Vermont, Finbar McGarry, Cool Hand Luke, reasonable doubt, innocent until proven guilty, Salem, Oregon, Paul Newman, penal labour  
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13530 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2012 at 1:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-20 10:49:52 AM  
Good, I hope he wins. Our legal system is criminally insane.
 
2012-08-20 10:55:50 AM  
That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I think 11 million is a bit too much. I mean he graduated from Vermont!? I say give him a few thousand and coupon to Chili's.
 
2012-08-20 10:57:45 AM  
There are not a lot of times where I like people gaming the system. However, this is one of those that is acceptable.

External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens
 
2012-08-20 10:59:55 AM  

cman: External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens


This.

But it's an easy way to get third world hellhole labor prices!
 
2012-08-20 11:00:46 AM  

cman: There are not a lot of times where I like people gaming the system. However, this is one of those that is acceptable.

External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens


Yeah, but those of those people once smoked a joint, so they should be slaves to the state for their whole lives you see.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-20 11:05:42 AM  

Aarontology: cman: External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens

This.

But it's an easy way to get third world hellhole labor prices!


It works in China.
 
2012-08-20 11:08:01 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.


I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."
 
2012-08-20 11:11:23 AM  
Eventually, McGarry relented and chose to work in the laundry rather than face a prolonged and brutal spell in "the hole." During the course of his work, McGarry says he contracted a serious MRSA lesion on his neck-a potentially deadly bacterial infection.

A county jail has a prison laundry? Even if it does, I don't see why he should be expected to perform work for the State until he has actually been convicted of something.

McGarry had no such sentence. He was certainly facing grievous charges-he had allegedly discharged a gun in his home while threatening to kill his family, then turned his anger on a school official.

On the other hand, if he weren't a raging asshole with anger-management problems, he wouldn't have to worry about being denied bail or being unable to afford it.
 
2012-08-20 11:12:21 AM  

NutWrench: On the other hand, if he weren't a raging asshole with anger-management problems, he wouldn't have to worry about being denied bail or being unable to afford it.


Stop that. This is horseshiat and you know it. There is no excuse for the brutality and feckless thuggery of our penal system.
 
2012-08-20 11:14:28 AM  

DamnYankees: NutWrench: On the other hand, if he weren't a raging asshole with anger-management problems, he wouldn't have to worry about being denied bail or being unable to afford it.

Stop that. This is horseshiat and you know it. There is no excuse for the brutality and feckless thuggery of our penal system.


Exactly. That's how this kind of shiat gets normalized.
 
2012-08-20 11:20:11 AM  

DamnYankees: feckless thuggery



golf clap. Now that's some grade A wordsmithing right there!


cman: External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens


Completely agree. They need to stick to state work. Minting license plates, clean highways and growing their own food. I would say making their own cloths but we really need textile jobs in America.

Yeah I know odds are they are made in China
 
2012-08-20 11:23:02 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: DamnYankees: feckless thuggery


golf clap. Now that's some grade A wordsmithing right there!


Stolen from The West Wing.
 
2012-08-20 11:28:30 AM  

DamnYankees: There is no excuse for the brutality and feckless thuggery of our penal system.


Yes there is. It's cheaper, and thus it makes companies that utilize prison labor more money.

Why do you hate capitalism?
 
2012-08-20 11:29:54 AM  

cman: There are not a lot of times where I like people gaming the system. However, this is one of those that is acceptable.

External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens


I'm not sure why you'd consider this to be gaming the system?
 
2012-08-20 11:30:35 AM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."


Actually, it does:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation
 
2012-08-20 11:30:58 AM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7277683/78824016#c78824016" target="_blank">DamnYankees</a>:</b> <i>The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."</i>

Except that it does.
 
2012-08-20 11:31:23 AM  

Magorn: DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."

Actually, it does:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation


I'm an idiot.
 
2012-08-20 11:32:21 AM  

Aarontology: Exactly. That's how this kind of shiat gets normalized.


Ok, let me get this straight: a guy threatens to kill his family and a school official. At his hearing, the prosecutor undoubtedly makes the rather obvious observation that this guy a threat to his family and to the aformentioned school official. He then recommends a bail in an amount that is reasonable for the level of threat this guy poses.

The defendent, by NOT being a raging asshole with anger management issues could have avoided the inconvenience of having to post an excessive bail in the first place. So is your problem with the whole bail issue or the notion that violent assholes should be in jail?
 
2012-08-20 11:34:04 AM  

NutWrench: The defendent, by NOT being a raging asshole with anger management issues could have avoided the inconvenience of having to post an excessive bail in the first place. So is your problem with the whole bail issue or the notion that violent assholes should be in jail?


That's not our problem. Our problem is the slave labor part of it.
 
2012-08-20 11:37:01 AM  
And By the By, the #1 Exploiter of Prison labor and prisoners in this country?

images.starpulse.com

ask any ex-con how they feel about him and you'll get an outpouring of hate usually only seen at tea-party conventions. Most prison commisaries have deals with Bob Barker industries only to stock his crap at outrageously inflated prices.

Okay, the truth is the Bob Barker behind Bob Barker industries is a different guy altogether, but most prisoners don't realize this and HATE the Price is Right star because of it.
 
2012-08-20 11:37:20 AM  

NutWrench: Aarontology: Exactly. That's how this kind of shiat gets normalized.

Ok, let me get this straight: a guy threatens to kill his family and a school official. At his hearing, the prosecutor undoubtedly makes the rather obvious observation that this guy a threat to his family and to the aformentioned school official. He then recommends a bail in an amount that is reasonable for the level of threat this guy poses.

The defendent, by NOT being a raging asshole with anger management issues could have avoided the inconvenience of having to post an excessive bail in the first place. So is your problem with the whole bail issue or the notion that violent assholes should be in jail?


I have no problem with the guy being remanded to jail while awaiting trial. I have a problem with him being a slave while waiting for trial.
 
2012-08-20 11:39:01 AM  

what_now: I have no problem with the guy being remanded to jail while awaiting trial. I have a problem with him being a slave while waiting for trial.


I already covered that in my Boobies.
 
2012-08-20 11:54:07 AM  

NutWrench: Aarontology: Exactly. That's how this kind of shiat gets normalized.

Ok, let me get this straight: a guy threatens to kill his family and a school official. At his hearing, the prosecutor undoubtedly makes the rather obvious observation that this guy a threat to his family and to the aformentioned school official. He then recommends a bail in an amount that is reasonable for the level of threat this guy poses.

The defendent, by NOT being a raging asshole with anger management issues could have avoided the inconvenience of having to post an excessive bail in the first place. So is your problem with the whole bail issue or the notion that violent assholes should be in jail?


I think their issue was with you trying to downplay what happened. The guy was accused of a crime and then basically forced into slave labor. It doesn't matter what the guy was accused of or how much of an asshole he is, this shouldn't happen.
 
2012-08-20 11:55:05 AM  

what_now: I have no problem with the guy being remanded to jail while awaiting trial. I have a problem with him being a slave while waiting for trial


Really I have no problem with him working. I would think that just sitting in jail would be very boring and someone would look forward to getting out of the cell for a while. If he wanted to work that would be one thing however forcing him is the real issue. The guy is going to get some cash, and I believe that is fair. Well at the very least the guy's lawyer is going to get some cash.
We need to stop with the slave language. If we ever transport prisoners in the bottom of ships for months at a time and a large parentage die in the crossing then and only then do we get to start calling them slaves. Cable tv, three squares a day and medical care kind of flies in the face of slave conditions.
 
2012-08-20 12:06:21 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: what_now: I have no problem with the guy being remanded to jail while awaiting trial. I have a problem with him being a slave while waiting for trial

Really I have no problem with him working. I would think that just sitting in jail would be very boring and someone would look forward to getting out of the cell for a while. If he wanted to work that would be one thing however forcing him is the real issue. The guy is going to get some cash, and I believe that is fair. Well at the very least the guy's lawyer is going to get some cash.
We need to stop with the slave language. If we ever transport prisoners in the bottom of ships for months at a time and a large parentage die in the crossing then and only then do we get to start calling them slaves. Cable tv, three squares a day and medical care kind of flies in the face of slave conditions.


I'm sorry, but forcing someone to work and not paying them for that work seems like slavery. Our constitution calls it "slavery or involuntary servitude." Calling it work makes it sound like he got something out of it. The only things he got out of the work was he was no longer punished and paid 25 cents an hour, so basically nothing.

And don't try to pull this BS "he also got health care and food!" Are you honestly trying to say that if he didn't do work, we would just throw him in an cell and let him die with no health care or food? The health care and food is not a reward for working so you can't call it payment for the work.
 
2012-08-20 12:08:21 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The guy is going to get some cash, and I believe that is fair.


He got $0.25 an hour.

That is fair? Those are slave wages, and I will say so.
 
2012-08-20 12:13:03 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: We need to stop with the slave language. If we ever transport prisoners in the bottom of ships for months at a time and a large parentage die in the crossing then and only then do we get to start calling them slaves. Cable tv, three squares a day and medical care kind of flies in the face of slave conditions.


How about keeping them in tents outdoors in temperatures over 110 degrees while forcing them to work and feeding them moldy bologna?

Not all slaves picked crops for 14 hours a day, but that doesn't mean they weren't slaves.
 
2012-08-20 12:15:00 PM  

NutWrench: The defendent, by NOT being a raging asshole with anger management issues could have avoided the inconvenience of having to post an excessive bail in the first place. So is your problem with the whole bail issue or the notion that violent assholes should be in jail?


My issue is with 1) him being forced to prison labor even though he had not being convicted of a crime, and 2) his violent assholeness being used as an excuse or justification for the state to force him to perform prison labor without being convicted of a crime.

He's a citizen and he has rights. His being a terrible person is entirely irrelevant to that.
 
2012-08-20 12:19:19 PM  
How long until the "fix" this by paying prisoners awaiting trial minimum wage but then subtracting their living expenses for room and board?
 
2012-08-20 12:39:17 PM  
Difficulty: he volunteered
 
2012-08-20 12:48:13 PM  

Ryan2065: I'm sorry, but forcing someone to work and not paying them for that work seems like slavery. Our constitution calls it "slavery or involuntary servitude." Calling it work makes it sound like he got something out of it. The only things he got out of the work was he was no longer punished and paid 25 cents an hour, so basically nothing.


They only get 25 cents? Really that's all they get? No food, no meds, no cloths, no tv, no legal counsel, and no vocational training?! Just the 25 cents?

I don't know about you but a very large chunk of my money goes to the above list. Well not so much the legal and vocational training.

But let me restate: Forcing him to work before his conviction was wrong.


Ryan2065: And don't try to pull this BS "he also got health care and food!" Are you honestly trying to say that if he didn't do work, we would just throw him in an cell and let him die with no health care or food? The health care and food is not a reward for working so you can't call it payment for the work.


woah there tiger. I didn't say he did or didn't get health care or not. Notice that is a whole new paragraph. That paragraph has to do with the term "slave labor" and doesn't have anything to do with this specific case.


DamnYankees: He got $0.25 an hour.

That is fair? Those are slave wages, and I will say so.


The below text has only to do with the term Slave Labor and it being used for convicted inmates:

It can cost up to 62k a year to house just one inmate. Link Now not in this case, but in terms of using the term "slave labor" when talking about the average convected inmate. I think it's generous to pay them at all. How many laundromat workers do you know that make 62k plus a year? I only have a really small sample size but of the ones I do know they are only making minimal wage.
I just think it's really demeaning to the suffering of actual slaves to use the term. These are people that have lost their rights due to their own actions.
 
2012-08-20 12:58:02 PM  
What do people expect in a country where for-profit prisons are ENCOURAGED to exist?
 
2012-08-20 12:59:03 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: These are people that have lost their rights due to their own actions.


No they are not. They have not been convicted of anything. That's the point.
 
2012-08-20 01:05:43 PM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: These are people that have lost their rights due to their own actions.

No they are not. They have not been convicted of anything. That's the point.


OH JESUS CHRIST!!

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The below text has only to do with the term Slave Labor and it being used for convicted inmates:
 

You see part of my post was about this individual, however the part clearly label as not being exactly about him, was not in fact about him.
 
2012-08-20 01:14:34 PM  

PreMortem: Difficulty: he volunteered


FTFA: Eventually, McGarry relented and chose to work in the laundry rather than face a prolonged and brutal spell in "the hole.

relent [rɪˈlɛnt]
vb (intr)
1. to change one's mind about some decided course, esp a harsh one; become more mild or amenable
2. (of the pace or intensity of something) to slacken
3. (of the weather) to become more mild

vol·un·teer (vln-tîr)
n.
1. A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily: an information booth staffed by volunteers; hospital volunteers.
2. Law
a. A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily.
b. A person who holds property under a deed made without consideration.

4.cdn.tapcdn.com
 
2012-08-20 01:24:39 PM  

xanadian: What do people expect in a country where for-profit prisons are ENCOURAGED to exist?


This.

Prisons shouldn't be run by profit-motive corporations.

Prison labor should be confined to prison related work, like cooking, laundry etc.

Yeah, and the person better be convicted first.
 
2012-08-20 01:26:45 PM  

Aarontology: My issue is with 1) him being forced to prison labor even though he had not being convicted of a crime, and 2) his violent assholeness being used as an excuse or justification for the state to force him to perform prison labor without being convicted of a crime.


And it doesn't matter if he was a violent asshole that DID get convicted. They forced him to do labor before he was convicted.
 
2012-08-20 01:43:50 PM  
anyone address the "mave" issue?
 
2012-08-20 01:47:15 PM  
Totes mave. Totes.
 
2012-08-20 01:47:45 PM  
Pay the man his money.
 
2012-08-20 01:48:15 PM  

cman: External prison labor takes jobs away from law abiding citizens


dudemanbro: Good, I hope he wins. Our legal system is criminally insane.


NutWrench: I don't see why he should be expected to perform work for the State until he has actually been convicted of something.


These.
 
2012-08-20 01:48:31 PM  
mave
 
2012-08-20 01:48:34 PM  

dudemanbro: Good, I hope he wins. Our legal system is criminally insane.


If he wins it could send a message to private prisons. But he won't win, he's guilty of something, so it is okay.
 
2012-08-20 01:49:04 PM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."


Actually, it does:

Amendment XIII (1865):
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
 
2012-08-20 01:49:27 PM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."


Not sure if that was sarcasm, but...

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
 
2012-08-20 01:49:41 PM  

NutWrench: what_now: I have no problem with the guy being remanded to jail while awaiting trial. I have a problem with him being a slave while waiting for trial.

I already covered that in my Boobies.


Your boobies were real.
And they were fabulous.
 
2012-08-20 01:51:02 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: These are people that have lost their rights due to their own actions.

No they are not. They have not been convicted of anything. That's the point.

OH JESUS CHRIST!!

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The below text has only to do with the term Slave Labor and it being used for convicted inmates:
 

You see part of my post was about this individual, however the part clearly label as not being exactly about him, was not in fact about him.


There is no point in bringing up facts based on a convicted inmate when we're talking about someone who was never convicted.
 
2012-08-20 01:52:14 PM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: The guy is going to get some cash, and I believe that is fair.

He got $0.25 an hour.

That is fair? Those are slave wages, and I will say so.


So I'll only defend the practice of paying inmates sub minimum wage here. I hope this guy wins a fortune, no convicted inmate should be forced to work let alone prior to conviction.

Even zero wage is fair - we are providing convicted criminals with a place to stay, amenities and food. The $0.25 is simply icing on the cake. They lost their rights to a fair wage when they were convicted of a crime. Put another way - we don't need to be fair to convicted criminals. Keeping them behind bars in small quarters isn't "fair" indeed I wonder if you would argue those are slave conditions.
 
2012-08-20 01:52:33 PM  

DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."


This.

The real question is, does making someone work for less than minimum wage constitute slavery? I'm inclined to say that it should, but that would have some... interesting... implications.
 
2012-08-20 01:52:34 PM  

DamnYankees: Magorn: DamnYankees: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That may work. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not even sure it matters if you are guilty or innocent. The 13th amendment doesn't say "...unless convicted of a crime."

Actually, it does:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation

I'm an idiot.


Ha, I thought you were being sarcastic.
 
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