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(Fox News)   California law banning parents from "curing" their gay children could soon be signed by the governor. No word yet on whether the law also prevents smoking, brining, or pickling your gay children   (foxnews.com) divider line 324
    More: Spiffy, California law, family therapist, overly broad, governors, mental health professional, smoking, sexual identity, American Psychological Association  
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1378 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Aug 2012 at 10:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-19 06:00:48 AM
As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?
 
2012-08-19 06:37:10 AM
I'm going to need someone other than Fox News telling me about this. The reality could be that it's against the law to beat your gay kids with tire iron for religious purposes, and Fox is just cranking their rage-machine up to its highest setting.
 
2012-08-19 07:20:53 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.


Painful as it is, I have to agree.
If parents can command their children to die from refusing a blood transfusion or organ transplant, they can command their children to suffer through this and potentially die from suicide.. 
Religion is truly grand.
 
2012-08-19 08:25:29 AM
If parents can be allowed to "cure" their children of gayness, we should be allowed to "cure" people of the mental illness that makes them believe in an invisible man who sees and knows everything.

/it's only fair.
 
2012-08-19 08:46:13 AM

FirstNationalBastard: If parents can be allowed to "cure" their children of gayness, we should be allowed to "cure" people of the mental illness that makes them believe in an invisible man who sees and knows everything except how to stop making more gay people.


FTFY.
 
2012-08-19 08:54:33 AM
FTA: "David Pickup, a Glendale, Calif. therapist said he's been a member of NARTH for more than eight years. He told Fox News that he went through his own SOCE treatment and uses it to treat his patients."

Well, there's an amusing name, considering the topic at hand.
 
2012-08-19 09:19:27 AM

God-is-a-Taco: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.


Painful as it is, I have to agree.
If parents can command their children to die from refusing a blood transfusion or organ transplant, they can command their children to suffer through this and potentially die from suicide.. 
Religion is truly grand.


Fortunately, this is not always true.

Isn't it funny that we all understand that religious indoctrination is child abuse?
 
2012-08-19 09:25:06 AM

God-is-a-Taco: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.


Painful as it is, I have to agree.
If parents can command their children to die from refusing a blood transfusion or organ transplant, they can command their children to suffer through this and potentially die from suicide.. 
Religion is truly grand.


Given the suicide rates amount the gay community, perhaps the parents are wanting to intervene in the lives of their kids that may only be curious and not " born that way".
 
2012-08-19 09:26:04 AM
I assume the "cure" is somehow related to how children are "cured" from smoking?

"Billy! I caught you with that man, don't deny it! Now, we're going to this club and you're going to give a blow job to every man in there, no exceptions! That'll teach you. We're going to blow the gay right out of, boy."
 
2012-08-19 09:38:41 AM

EnviroDude: God-is-a-Taco: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.


Painful as it is, I have to agree.
If parents can command their children to die from refusing a blood transfusion or organ transplant, they can command their children to suffer through this and potentially die from suicide.. 
Religion is truly grand.

Given the suicide rates amount the gay community, perhaps the parents are wanting to intervene in the lives of their kids that may only be curious and not " born that way".


No doubt that the high suicide rates have NOTHING to do with religious farktards. I'm sure you're right.
 
2012-08-19 09:49:41 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?


Hate and ignorance cloaked in religion is still antithetical to American civil liberties. There are plenty of Christian and Jewish interpretations that do not condemn and denigrate people who are LGBT. There are already plenty of things the government prohibits in spite of claims of religious freedom that are far less dangerous than teaching children to hate others/themselves.
 
2012-08-19 09:55:10 AM
What about mincing? Is mincing still OK?
 
2012-08-19 10:30:39 AM
This is Kirk Murphy. I served with him in the Air Force and he was my friend. His parents tried to "cure" him when he was little and the result was a man who never felt truly happy, hated his sexuality, and in my opinion led directly to his suicide.

If this law stops even one more kid from ended up like Kirk, then I'm all about it. Kirk was a great guy, and one of the kindest people I've ever met. Things like this should never happen to people. It's barbaric and wrong.
 
2012-08-19 10:37:13 AM
I have no problem with this. All forms of parental abuse should be illegal.
 
2012-08-19 10:37:32 AM
Child abuse isn't a religious right.
 
2012-08-19 10:38:22 AM
Thank goodness

This means more juicy young men will be coming to the bathhouses to how to love their queerness. and by queerness I mean 'being anally raped by dozens of anonymous strangers with porn star mustaches'
 
2012-08-19 10:39:18 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?


I'm thinking about the parents who send their kids away to camps that essentially torture and dehumanize the kids because they are gay.

I'm thinking, fark them. Their religious rights stop where the kid's rights begins.
 
2012-08-19 10:40:22 AM
Parents can do all kinds of things to their kids in the name of faith. This kind of law would probably not hold up.

What would be smarter is to ban doctors or psychiatrists from claiming to be able to do this kind of thing. False or irresponsible advertising is definitely under the purview of the government. It wouldn't stop it, nothing really will until fundamentalists grow up, but it would cut down on it.
 
2012-08-19 10:40:45 AM

starsrift: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?

I'm thinking about the parents who send their kids away to camps that essentially torture and dehumanize the kids because they are gay.

I'm thinking, fark them. Their religious rights stop where the kid's rights begins.


I agree. These things are discredited by anyone who isn't a wooleyed true believer.

If someone subjects their kids to that kind of crap, I think child services needs to come into play.
 
2012-08-19 10:40:52 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.


I really don't think it is. Ex gay therapy is psychological abuse.
 
2012-08-19 10:40:59 AM
Given that most "cures" are usually some form of child abuse, I'd have thought this would already have been covered.


Only a few such schemes are happy chatty counselling. Most involve essentially kidnap and brainwashing.
 
2012-08-19 10:41:20 AM

odinsposse: Parents can do all kinds of things to their kids in the name of faith. This kind of law would probably not hold up.

What would be smarter is to ban doctors or psychiatrists from claiming to be able to do this kind of thing. False or irresponsible advertising is definitely under the purview of the government. It wouldn't stop it, nothing really will until fundamentalists grow up, but it would cut down on it.


I like this idea better. I'd vote for it.
 
2012-08-19 10:42:01 AM
Gay "cures" are pretty much all brainwashing. Brainwashing is basically child abuse. Child abuse is illegal.

Ergo, using gay "cures" on your kids should be illegal.
 
2012-08-19 10:42:36 AM
So being "Gay" is a disease.
 
2012-08-19 10:43:19 AM

EnviroDude: God-is-a-Taco: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.


Painful as it is, I have to agree.
If parents can command their children to die from refusing a blood transfusion or organ transplant, they can command their children to suffer through this and potentially die from suicide.. 
Religion is truly grand.

Given the suicide rates amount the gay community, perhaps the parents are wanting to intervene in the lives of their kids that may only be curious and not " born that way".


Oh, yes. Clearly the solution to intense peer pressure and bigotry is add the parents telling the kids that there is something wrong with them and they need to be cured to the top of the pile. Pure genius.

/not sure why I'm responding to EnviroTroll
 
2012-08-19 10:45:11 AM

odinsposse: Parents can do all kinds of things to their kids in the name of faith. This kind of law would probably not hold up.

What would be smarter is to ban doctors or psychiatrists from claiming to be able to do this kind of thing. False or irresponsible advertising is definitely under the purview of the government. It wouldn't stop it, nothing really will until fundamentalists grow up, but it would cut down on it.



That's the case in most Western countries, and I'm surprised it isn't in the US.

You can't get accreditation from the required public bodies in the UK if you practice this witchcraft nonsense.
 
2012-08-19 10:45:52 AM

EnviroDude: Given the suicide rates amount the gay community, perhaps the parents are wanting to intervene in the lives of their kids that may only be curious and not " born that way".


Maybe it's because the parents and his friends and family treat the kid like shiat that drive them to commit suicide and not the mere fact that they're gay. Of course it would take someone with an IQ above room temperature to figure that out so I guess I should understand why you lack the ability to understand that.

Go fark yourself. This isn't something to joke about.
 
2012-08-19 10:46:47 AM

Brick-House: So being "Gay" is a disease.



Transmitted through under-stall foot-tapping.
 
2012-08-19 10:47:18 AM

Brick-House: So being "Gay" is a disease.


Maybe to dumbasses like you it is but to normal people it's not.
 
2012-08-19 10:47:44 AM
I'm not sure how this will work, seeing, as others have mentioned that it pretty much infringes between parents and their children in religious issues.

That said however, this:

while critics say lawmakers are infringing on not only parents' rights but also on the mission of mental health professionals.


AND THIS

"As long as this bill threatens to shame patients and silence counselors, therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists, we will vigorously oppose it," McReynolds told Fox News. "We cannot afford to let the state invade the counseling room or doctor's office to dictate what views on sexuality are acceptable and unacceptable."

is pure and utter bullshiat as this whole "curing" is nothing but witch doctor smoke and mirror bullshiat that should be stamped out by the medical community. Revoke their licenses, esxpose them for the charlatans they are and kick them out on the street or the lecture circuit to peddle their hatred.
 
2012-08-19 10:51:06 AM
http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4265

Curing the gay is pseudoscience bullshiat.

It doesn't work, it has never worked, and it will never work.

The the following link is for the podcast for people who are too tl;dr to read.

http://skeptoid.com/audio/skeptoid-42 65.mp3

I apologize for the lack of clickable links but I'm posting this on my phone from work.
 
2012-08-19 10:51:29 AM
FTA: "Lieu also cited studies like the American Psychological Association (APA) 2009 Task Force, which reported SOCE therapy could lead to depression, feelings of shame, self-loathing, drug abuse, high-risk sexual behavior, anger, withdrawal and in some cases, even attempted suicide in minor children..."

So SOCE is like most other things to teens.
 
2012-08-19 10:52:00 AM

rubi_con_man: Thank goodness

This means more juicy young men will be coming to the bathhouses to how to love their queerness. and by queerness I mean 'being anally raped by dozens of anonymous strangers with porn star mustaches'


Had an exciting weekend already, eh?
 
2012-08-19 10:52:44 AM
Wow. I can't imagine how messed up it must be to be a child with parents who want to "cure" you of who you are.
 
2012-08-19 10:52:47 AM
I give up, what the heck are we supposed to do when every single time its brought up that telling your child, they're an abomination for even being born the way they will be ok and definitely not detrimental to their psychological well being (suicide for you slow people). We can make these laws to protect them but does it really stop that emotional and psychological abuse that gets thrown at them everyday by their own parents. What we need is nation wide education into this, heck maybe giving people licenses to have kids is the only way to go about this. Then again the problem crops up that then more kids will be born who are accounted for and may not receive the care they should. Why can't educated solutions be as easy to find as the derpbrigades own.

/sigh
//double sigh
 
2012-08-19 10:54:53 AM

PonceAlyosha: cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

I really don't think it is. Ex gay therapy is psychological abuse.


Exactly

It's one thing to say "you can't use logic, persuasion, and Scripture (don't laugh Farktheists) to persuade your child that it is wrong to be gay" -- I cringe, but parents should be able to do that

It's another thing to use "therapies" discredited by the medical community -- Right - just like you can't use the discredited "shaking" therapy to make a baby stop crying
 
2012-08-19 10:56:53 AM

Bungles: Brick-House: So being "Gay" is a disease.


Transmitted through under-stall foot-tapping.


I'm forced to take a wide stance on this issue.

/hurr hurr, issue.
 
2012-08-19 10:57:55 AM
How would fellow farkers feel if a state banned those juvenile delinquent boot camps parents can pay for like the tough love camps?
 
2012-08-19 10:57:59 AM
You'd think they'd get smoked and pickled enough on their own.
 
2012-08-19 11:00:41 AM
David Pickup, a Glendale, Calif. therapist said he's been a member of NARTH for more than eight years. He told Fox News that he went through his own SOCE treatment and uses it to treat his patients.

Pickup said that although he's had thousands of sexual interactions with men, he never identified himself as being gay.


He should seek therapy for a severe case of chronic cognitive dissonance.
 
2012-08-19 11:00:51 AM
I laughed.

/gay
//fortunate not to have complete religious nutcases as parents
 
2012-08-19 11:01:17 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?


I agree with you, but some that argue against this are the same people who are trying to get the government to oppose gay marriage for religious reasons.
 
2012-08-19 11:01:22 AM
I would imagine the cure is based upon the cause. If they believe it's a physical cause, then beatings. If it's psychological, then beatings. If genetic, then beatings.

/you get the drift
 
2012-08-19 11:01:38 AM

mavexe: How would fellow farkers feel if a state banned those juvenile delinquent boot camps parents can pay for like the tough love camps?


Those are typically set up in other countries, to further isolate the child. But, I'd be pretty good with it.
 
2012-08-19 11:01:52 AM

cman: As much as I am pro-gay, I think this is a bit extreme.

This gets into religion and parental rights. Parents have the right to expose their own children to their religious beliefs.

Its the principle of it all. If the government can tell parents that they cannot raise their children using religious doctrine, what else can the government tell parents?


My right to swing my fist ends at your nose. Their rights to religion and parentage ends at their child's health. We remove kids from abusive homes, remember? And the kerfluffle about "faith healing" and kids dying of preventable diseases because their parents decided to "trust the lord" rather than take their kids to a damned doctor(which may have been elsewhere but really should have brought the outrage on Fark)? These "ex-gay" "therapies" have been proven time and again to cause both physical and mental harm. Therefore, the "religious and parental rights" argument is bullshiat and you are so very wrong it's not funny in the slightest.

The only reason you didn't instantly become red again for this is because you, unlike many others on Fark, have the capacity to learn, and freely admit when they make mistakes, but you DID take a step down on my "cool guy" ladder with this one.
 
2012-08-19 11:02:27 AM
Okay, a little clarification is clearly in order because this is a FOX news link. For those not familiar with the law, it would ban the use of "conversion therapy" also known as "ex-gay therapy" or "reparitive therapy" from being used on minors. The way the law works in the rest of the country right now is as long as parents can convince their children to "volunteer" for this program they can be subjected to it. This law would make it so anyone under the age of 18 could not "volunteer" for anti-gay reprogramming even if their parents say they totally want to take part in it.

Samuel Brinton, who is awesome and speaks on his own experiences in conversion therapy at schools and conferences, covers this topic pretty thoroughly here.

This isn't praying the gay away like the popular jokes suggest. Conversion Therapy involves children or adults being subjected to essentially Pavlovian conditioning practices (seeing pictures of men holding hands and being shocked at the same time) to the point where contact with anyone of the same sex can cause them to vomit or have a panic attack. There are no real psychologically based organizations that will label these practices as anything other than dangerous, only NARTH, which is basically just an organization created to say that this type of therapy is totally cool with some therapy organization. Because of that there's rarely anyone with an understanding of psychology, psychiatry, or basic science involved in any of the therapy practices. So there's no regulation from anyone up the chain that knows how not to wreck someone's psyche. For the most part it's just outright torture intersped with prayer, and the suicide rate is astronomical.

I have a friend that personally went through this process and won't say anything about it except that it involved a belt, and he can't wear them anymore. This law needs to be passed in every state in the nation.
 
2012-08-19 11:02:36 AM

mavexe: How would fellow farkers feel if a state banned those juvenile delinquent boot camps parents can pay for like the tough love camps?


Do those still exist?

Gotta say, as long as those camps aren't harming the well-being of the child, I'm ok with them. But if they're like the ones in Florida which did abuse the children to the point that some of them died, then yeah, they need to be shut down.
 
2012-08-19 11:02:42 AM

Irving Maimway: This is Kirk Murphy. I served with him in the Air Force and he was my friend. His parents tried to "cure" him when he was little and the result was a man who never felt truly happy, hated his sexuality, and in my opinion led directly to his suicide.

If this law stops even one more kid from ended up like Kirk, then I'm all about it. Kirk was a great guy, and one of the kindest people I've ever met. Things like this should never happen to people. It's barbaric and wrong.


Thought police. It's what America is really all about.
 
2012-08-19 11:03:44 AM
It's hard to fight genetics. If you're an easily brainwashed, closeted self hating gay, there's a good chance your kid is going to be too.
 
2012-08-19 11:04:05 AM
It's always funny to me that the same people want to "cure" homosexuals will also be quick to point out how homosexuals are more likely to engage in some form of self destructive behavior, including suicide. So "curing" them is the best thing possible. I mean you don't want them to engage in self destructive behavior do you?

So you tell some young and impressionable person that there is something severely wrong with them and subject them to social stigma and pressure and 'treatment', and then after you're done subjecting them to that personal little hell, you can't possibly imagine why disproportionately large numbers of them grow up unhappy.

"Gay people are miserable!" says the people who are the cause of the misery.
 
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