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(BBC)   New "flameless cremation" machine uses hot potassium hydroxide under pressure to reduce remains to a fine, white powder. Pretty basic, really   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 87
    More: Interesting, hydrogen peroxide, Stillwater  
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7126 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2012 at 12:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-19 02:02:20 PM
 
Skr
2012-08-19 02:05:31 PM

Mantour: iivel: FriarReb98: cretinbob: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

because this

Your dentist is behind the times. More and more are using composite fillings because they react more like teeth to heat than metals do.

For crowns your choices are usually gold, silver or porcelain. Do the silver crowns contain an amalgam?

I know mine are gold instead of porcelain since I tend to grind, and the gold is friendlier to the other teeth.

Gold is the closest thing to enamel; it expands and contract the same way as enamel does, it can sculpt at mm width, as such it can be friendly to your other teeth and it will require less enamel removed from your receiving tooth. It is guaranteed for 25 years but most likely it will outlast you. Porcelain (metal fused or full porcelain) is guaranteed for only 5 years. However, aesthetically, full porcelain is better for frontal teeth (smile zone) and gold for your pre-molars and molars. Metal fused are usually not recommended as the metal seat can show up after a few years and leave a grayish tone to your tooth.

but again, with frontal gold crowns, you can start a rap career.


After having issues with porcelain and composite, I've gone with Gold crowns on two molars so far. To be honest they feel better than my actual teeth ever did. A bit of a stigma to have gold teeth, but it never really bothers me, especially since having the gold crowns has made eating and general life more pleasant.

Ultimately regrowing teeth is a nice pipe dream to have though.


------------
As for the article, it doesn't surprise me at all that something like this would set up shop in Stillwater.
 
2012-08-19 02:07:48 PM
Its makers claim it ...allows for the complete separation of dental amalgam for safe disposal.

i.telegraph.co.uk 

/godwin
 
2012-08-19 02:17:31 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: Peroxide is a free radical, not a base


KOH is a base.
 
2012-08-19 02:18:36 PM

unlikely: PC LOAD LETTER: Peroxide is a free radical, not a base

KOH is a base.


Ahhh, reading more thread I see that the headline was different and they fixed it. Apologies.
 
2012-08-19 02:19:02 PM

miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.


There is more mercury released in forest fires from it being absorbed by trees from the air. Blaming fillings is like blaming significant ozone depletion on asthma inhaler propellants.

Sounds like a Faux News or Daily Fail story.
 
2012-08-19 02:23:44 PM
Good idea. We use both potassium and sodium hydroxide to degrease/ clean stainless steel and tile in a meat packing plant. Both have a ph around 12-16 depending on dilution and increasing the temp to over 500 degree F and increasing the pressure would easily dissolve several hundred pounds of organic tissue and fat in a few hours. Bonus would be clean, bleached bones to grind instead of burnt nasty. Only downside I can see is discharging into municipal sewers...they would need to lower the ph to near neutral with CO2 and dilute with lots of water plus get a certificate from the city to dump. Untreated hydroxides kill off lots of digester bugs in the sewer lagoon/PO municipal waste-water operators.
 
2012-08-19 02:32:20 PM
I'm still going to be burned on a real wood pyre, dammit.
 
2012-08-19 02:39:41 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: I'm still going to be burned on a real wood pyre, dammit.


Brutal.
 
2012-08-19 03:08:47 PM
You can use uncle Teddys ashes to make a fine soap.

Uncle Teddy used to make you feel so dirty. Now when he touches you you will feel nothing but clean!
 
2012-08-19 03:11:03 PM

RogermcAllen: The Voice of Doom: RogermcAllen
3. Spill some NaOH on your hands and you'll say, "I feel slippery" maybe even "I feel a little itchy".

or maybe even scream in pain when the NaOH dissolves (on) your sweaty hands.

After all they're using it to dissolve bodies..

Caustic doesn't really work that way. As long as you take a few precautions (have a buffer solution or running water to rinse with), there is no reason that you can't quickly and relatively painlessly wash off a caustic spill. Worst case scenario, you get a few drops on you that you don't notice leaving a hole in your shirt and a local burn.

HF is a contact poison that pretty much instantly soaks into your skin. A few unnoticed drops can kill you.

From WIKI:
"Hydrofluoric acid is a highly corrosive liquid and is a contact poison. It should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to other mineral acids. Owing to its low dissociation constant, HF as a neutral lipid-soluble molecule penetrates tissue more rapidly than typical mineral acids. Because of the ability of hydrofluoric acid to penetrate tissue, poisoning can occur readily through exposure of skin or eyes, or when inhaled or swallowed. Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident. HF interferes with nerve function, meaning that burns may not initially be painful. Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury.[8]

Once absorbed into blood through the skin, it reacts with blood calcium and may cause cardiac arrest. Burns with areas larger than 25 square inches (160 cm2) have the potential to cause serious systemic toxicity from interference with blood and tissue calcium levels.[9] In the body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with the ubiquitous biologically important ions Ca2+ and Mg2+. Formation of insoluble calcium fluoride is proposed as the etiology for both precipitous fall in serum calcium and the severe pain associated with tissue toxicity.[10] ...


Gosh, I was just kind of trying to make a little funny here. I realize that HF is not really as common in a lab as Breaking Bad would have you believe. In fact I was a little disapointed that they rolled out a full cart of the stuff after Gus slit that guy's throat, as if somehow they might have needed the HF to manufacture the meth or just had it laying around for shiats and giggles.

As for the NaOH or KOH being harmfull, yes it is but those who've said washing, even just with water, is enough to stop the dammage are right. A little dry caustic on your hands can easily be rinsed away with water leaving behind almost no damage and even 50% NaOH solutions can be rinsed off leaving your hands feeling a little slippery and as if they have been in the bath tub too long. I wouldn't recomend soaking in a tub of the stuff but at room temperature it's not horrible.
 
2012-08-19 03:19:19 PM

The Voice of Doom: RogermcAllen
3. Spill some NaOH on your hands and you'll say, "I feel slippery" maybe even "I feel a little itchy".

or maybe even scream in pain when the NaOH dissolves (on) your sweaty hands.

After all they're using it to dissolve bodies..


Even then.
HF is, by far and away, the sneakiest bastard in the caustics cabinet that I know of.

See, most caustics-NaOH and KOH included--work pretty straightforward, assuming we're talking concentrated enough to damage you in the first place. What they touch, they destroy. Result, immediate pain and visible destruction of the skin. You WILL be charging to the nearest sink to get it off OFF OFF!

HF on the other hand.

HF doesn't damage the skin so much. It DOES get into the bloodstream, though, where it turns out that the body's bone-building chemistry thinks that fluorine is just so much more groovy than calcium. Yeah, fark that calcium, rip it out and put fluorine in its place.

Too bad that fluorine can't actually make load-bearing structures like calcium can, and that dumped calcium has to go SOMEWHERE. Where does it go? Into your bloodstream, of course, and all at once.

So if you're lucky, you get osteoporosis. If you're not, your heart stops from electrolyte imbalance. In either case, that electrolyte imbalance will LIGHT UP your pain receptors.

/well except maybe picric acid
//that one explodes. Bet you didn't see THAT coming!
 
2012-08-19 03:19:44 PM

miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.


Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.
 
2012-08-19 03:35:04 PM
OK just for this discussion I googled "how do I dissolve a human body" (I'm sure I'm on some sort of government watch list now).

Dissolution/oxidation with bases (NaOH or KOH) has the problem of leaving behind bones.

HF is highly toxic (that has been pointed out many times here)

Sulfuric will do the job in a couple of days (higher temperatures and addition of some water helps if you get the stuff in the 98% concentration to begin with), some bones and teeth may remain though.

Seems it's harder to dispose of bodies than fiction would have you believe (surprising huh?).

Whatever am I going to do about my roommate?
 
2012-08-19 03:43:58 PM
What it will look like when used on a typical american:

Link
 
2012-08-19 03:53:59 PM

Mija: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.


Small pox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella can kill you. The amount of mercury present in vaccines is less than you get if you eat fish and shellfish on a regular basis.
 
2012-08-19 04:22:42 PM
images.wikia.com
 
2012-08-19 04:31:57 PM

FloydA: Mija: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.

Small pox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella can kill you. The amount of mercury present in vaccines is less than you get if you eat fish and shellfish on a regular basis.


Your fish example is a good one. Fish are full of methylmercury and dimethylmercury, both of which bioaccumulate (stay in you for a long time) and cause serious damage.

The ethylmercury used in vaccines quickly leaves the body.
 
2012-08-19 04:39:18 PM
I get it. The stuff dissolves tissue and organs, leaving behind bones and foreign, metallic objects. Then, it reduces the bones to sludge which can be dried into a powder.

My question is, where does all of the 'people juice' go when the stuff is done? You know, dissolved tissue.

Run through filters, scraped off as a goo, then dried and mixed with the bone powder? Dumped into the local sewer?

Incineration/cremation by heat vaporizes most tissues, reduces the rest to ash and does the same to the majority of the bones. (A handy dandy machine takes care of those chunks which remain, like teeth, by grinding them into powder.) Metallic remains are supposed to be picked out and, if valuable metals, returned to the survivors. If not, then scrapped.

Mercury still used in dental fillings is odd, since we do have assorted new polymers that can replace the old, precious metal-type stuff.

Then again, gold miners in places like South America use tons of mercury to capture gold fragments in sluice boxes. They get an amalgam of gold and mercury, then they burn the mercury off, leaving the gold. Easy as pie. However, eventually deadly to every miner involved and everything else within a dozen square miles, and even further as the vaporized mercury precipitates out of the air and descends into the rivers, wet lands and jungles, where it is absorbed by nearly everything that lives.

We still have major problems in logging areas of the US where vast amounts of mercury was used as a debarking agent in saw mills. The residual settled to the bottom of nearby lakes and in some cases, can be found in thick layers under the mud today.
 
2012-08-19 04:43:57 PM

Rik01: Dumped into the local sewer?


This one. They neutralize the caustic and send everything to the waste treatment plant.

/At least that's how they did it when I read about them doing this in Florida a few years back
 
2012-08-19 04:47:19 PM
So, they are turning the deceased into detergent?
 
2012-08-19 04:50:37 PM
Ishidan
HF is, by far and away, the sneakiest bastard in the caustics cabinet that I know of.

I don't doubt that it's worse.
I was just doing a "kids, don't do that at home" bit with regards to the part that NaOH will only feel slippery or maybe itch a a little when even its wikipedia entry includes a nice little picture why it's sometimes recommended to put on goggles and gloves when handling it.


I believe there even was a glass of NaOH tablets in the low-(safety-)level chemistry set for children which I got when I was a bit jealous because my older brother was doing some cool stuff with a really big set for teenagers and also some Greepeace set (basically just another chemistry set, but the chemicals and the experiment book were more geared towards analyzing stuff; I remember us testing some pieces of furniture around the house for formaldehyde and during a vacation samples of river and sea water for..whatever)
 
2012-08-19 04:59:34 PM

RogermcAllen: FloydA: Mija: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.

Small pox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella can kill you. The amount of mercury present in vaccines is less than you get if you eat fish and shellfish on a regular basis.

Your fish example is a good one. Fish are full of methylmercury and dimethylmercury, both of which bioaccumulate (stay in you for a long time) and cause serious damage.

The ethylmercury used in vaccines quickly leaves the body.


Did you know the average fish contains more mercury than a rectal thermometer? Would you eat a rectal thermometer?
 
2012-08-19 05:13:25 PM
I want my body cremated with a couple of Willy Pete's thrown at me.
 
2012-08-19 05:17:08 PM

RagnarD: [i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
A fourth option!! Plop plop fizz fizz


I still think it's nasty... now instead of getting stuffed in the flames (crackle, crackle, crackle), you get stuffed in a metal canister and have liquid pour on you. Both are a bit of a shock if you're not quite dead, but burning is quicker.
 
2012-08-19 05:21:30 PM

miss diminutive: Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.


Ahh, Mercury. Sweetest of the transition metals.
 
2012-08-19 05:51:50 PM
So they turn bodies in soap.

Approves:
maciejrajk.eu
/hot
 
2012-08-19 06:32:28 PM

belhade: There's still thermal depolymerization, which leaves you with, among other things, heating oil.


My Mom was a loving ,Caring, warm.person..

Let the nice comments fly! fly!
 
2012-08-19 06:43:27 PM

FloydA: Mija: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.

Small pox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella can kill you. The amount of mercury present in vaccines is less than you get if you eat fish and shellfish on a regular basis.


The amount of mercury in all vaccines but the flu shot is zero and has been for decades.
 
2012-08-19 07:12:05 PM
Have they named the model "Victor" yet?


MasterPython there is still mercury in all immunizations, its just the natural environmental trace level that occurs when you don't have absolute control over the air around the production.

CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, it is a fertilizer.

They've banned summer use of nitrogen fertilizer in much of Florida because of Phosphates in the rivers... completely ignoring the fact that the rivers themselves are leeching phosphate from the ground at a MUCH higher rate than comes from excessive fertilization... especially since none of the lawn fertilization companies use phosphate fertilizers.... Why put down material with the DIRT ITSELF is 3 pounds per thousand feet above growth requirement?

But no, they're lobbying for the banning of all fertilizer application - stupid people are stupid, that should be banned.
 
2012-08-19 07:19:19 PM
www.suicideproject.org
 
2012-08-19 08:20:16 PM

Mantour: iivel: FriarReb98: cretinbob: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

because this

Your dentist is behind the times. More and more are using composite fillings because they react more like teeth to heat than metals do.

For crowns your choices are usually gold, silver or porcelain. Do the silver crowns contain an amalgam?

I know mine are gold instead of porcelain since I tend to grind, and the gold is friendlier to the other teeth.

Gold is the closest thing to enamel; it expands and contract the same way as enamel does, it can sculpt at mm width, as such it can be friendly to your other teeth and it will require less enamel removed from your receiving tooth. It is guaranteed for 25 years but most likely it will outlast you. Porcelain (metal fused or full porcelain) is guaranteed for only 5 years. However, aesthetically, full porcelain is better for frontal teeth (smile zone) and gold for your pre-molars and molars. Metal fused are usually not recommended as the metal seat can show up after a few years and leave a grayish tone to your tooth.

but again, with frontal gold crowns, you can start a rap career.


So glad to have read this.

/getting a gold molar crown in two weeks.
//750 for either choices
///grinding temporary daily and convincing myself its spices.
 
2012-08-19 09:24:30 PM
hot potassium hydroxide under pressure to reduce remains to a fine, white powder.

In other words, SOAP FLAKES.

Probably don't pitch it to people that way though. Thats all it is, however.
Nothing new, that hasn't changed much in a thousand years. The first ever US patent in 1790 was for an improvement to the process of producing soap making chems, IIRC.
 
2012-08-19 09:51:13 PM
welcome to ed's car and shop and stuff

we take ur old body and restore it..
with a nice tingle of COCAINE!
 
2012-08-19 10:27:27 PM

MasterPython: FloydA: Mija: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

Yes, mercury is a poison. People still defend it's use in vaccines against all reason. Funny, how they are conditioned to accept their children being injected with known poisons but think it's oh so awful in every other respect.

Small pox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella can kill you. The amount of mercury present in vaccines is less than you get if you eat fish and shellfish on a regular basis.

The amount of mercury in all vaccines but the flu shot is zero and has been for decades.


Well A decade. But yes. point taken. Thimerosal is still used as a preservative in inactivated influenza vaccine, but the CDC and FDA have been making efforts to remove mercury-based preservatives from all vaccines.

In any case, the "anti-vaxers" are crazy people, obsessed with a non-issue.
 
2012-08-20 01:44:48 AM
Strong chemicals are environmental hazards, too. A nice green way to dispose of the dead only requires a few dermestid beetles:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-20 10:59:22 AM

FriarReb98: cretinbob: miss diminutive: Mercury from amalgam vaporised in crematoria is blamed for a proportion of airborne mercury emissions worldwide.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Why are we still using mercury fillings in the first place? The negative health effects are pretty well understood at this point.

because this

Your dentist is behind the times. More and more are using composite fillings because they react more like teeth to heat than metals do.


Yeah, but the composites tend to fall out or shatter., at least in my experience. Of course amalgam fillings do too.
 
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