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(Toronto Star)   Law of Unintended Consequences at work again   (thestar.com) divider line 68
    More: Obvious, OxyContin, adverse effect, Peterborough, community health, Toronto Police  
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14478 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2012 at 6:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-18 04:09:45 PM
LOL

These folks are gonna be wondering why they stuck with oxy for all time time considering how powerful heroin is
 
2012-08-18 04:11:28 PM
When Mr. Bush, the Lesser, went into Afghanistan I told everyone heroin would be cheap and plentiful.
 
2012-08-18 04:28:41 PM
Along with Reaganomics the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All the countries that followed the war on drugs policies are also in failure mode. Instead of jailing people how about we start treating them? We've had 30 years to try out this whole "throw everyone in jail" thing and all we've got out of it is a bunch of kids without dads/moms. Of course a druggy is going to get their fix regardless of how they have to get their fix. Smoking farking bath salts as an example.. My cousin was on heroine for almost 20 years (she now has bone cancer) and the only way she kicked the habit after being incarcerated 10+ times is after our family pooled our resources for treatment. If the government would have spent the money for that on her first arrest she probably wouldn't have cancer (they attribute it to drug use) and she wouldn't have cost tax payers 4 or 5 years of jail expense at $45k a year. Granted not all addicts recover on the first attempt but even 10+ times in treatment is a hell of a lot better/cheaper than jail.

Whatever.. Sensible solutions don't bring money into the DoJ.
 
2012-08-18 04:38:54 PM
Unintended consequences? I'm pretty sure you could predict that "hillbilly heroine" will be replaced with "heroine."
 
2012-08-18 04:40:36 PM

xynix: Along with Reaganomics the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All the countries that followed the war on drugs policies are also in failure mode. Instead of jailing people how about we start treating them? We've had 30 years to try out this whole "throw everyone in jail" thing and all we've got out of it is a bunch of kids without dads/moms. Of course a druggy is going to get their fix regardless of how they have to get their fix. Smoking farking bath salts as an example.. My cousin was on heroine for almost 20 years (she now has bone cancer) and the only way she kicked the habit after being incarcerated 10+ times is after our family pooled our resources for treatment. If the government would have spent the money for that on her first arrest she probably wouldn't have cancer (they attribute it to drug use) and she wouldn't have cost tax payers 4 or 5 years of jail expense at $45k a year. Granted not all addicts recover on the first attempt but even 10+ times in treatment is a hell of a lot better/cheaper than jail.

Whatever.. Sensible solutions don't bring money into the DoJ.


This x infinity.

The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.
 
2012-08-18 04:41:13 PM

Bontesla: xynix: Along with Reaganomics the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All the countries that followed the war on drugs policies are also in failure mode. Instead of jailing people how about we start treating them? We've had 30 years to try out this whole "throw everyone in jail" thing and all we've got out of it is a bunch of kids without dads/moms. Of course a druggy is going to get their fix regardless of how they have to get their fix. Smoking farking bath salts as an example.. My cousin was on heroine for almost 20 years (she now has bone cancer) and the only way she kicked the habit after being incarcerated 10+ times is after our family pooled our resources for treatment. If the government would have spent the money for that on her first arrest she probably wouldn't have cancer (they attribute it to drug use) and she wouldn't have cost tax payers 4 or 5 years of jail expense at $45k a year. Granted not all addicts recover on the first attempt but even 10+ times in treatment is a hell of a lot better/cheaper than jail.

Whatever.. Sensible solutions don't bring money into the DoJ.

This x infinity.

The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.


And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it
 
2012-08-18 05:02:00 PM

cman: The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it


I'm anti-drug but this was an idiot solution to the problem. DEA was the DHS of its time, a "look, we're doing something" approach that accomplished nothing good.

Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?
 
2012-08-18 05:12:05 PM

cman: Bontesla: xynix: Along with Reaganomics the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All the countries that followed the war on drugs policies are also in failure mode. Instead of jailing people how about we start treating them? We've had 30 years to try out this whole "throw everyone in jail" thing and all we've got out of it is a bunch of kids without dads/moms. Of course a druggy is going to get their fix regardless of how they have to get their fix. Smoking farking bath salts as an example.. My cousin was on heroine for almost 20 years (she now has bone cancer) and the only way she kicked the habit after being incarcerated 10+ times is after our family pooled our resources for treatment. If the government would have spent the money for that on her first arrest she probably wouldn't have cancer (they attribute it to drug use) and she wouldn't have cost tax payers 4 or 5 years of jail expense at $45k a year. Granted not all addicts recover on the first attempt but even 10+ times in treatment is a hell of a lot better/cheaper than jail.

Whatever.. Sensible solutions don't bring money into the DoJ.

This x infinity.

The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it


Why would they end it? Our elected morons are heavily invested in the private prison business. So irritating!!
 
2012-08-18 05:17:24 PM

Bontesla: Why would they end it? Our elected morons are heavily invested in the private prison business. So irritating!!


Exactly.. It's really infuriating. For more details see: Link

Yes it is from the ACLU and yes I'm that liberal.
 
2012-08-18 05:20:36 PM

xynix: Bontesla: Why would they end it? Our elected morons are heavily invested in the private prison business. So irritating!!

Exactly.. It's really infuriating. For more details see: Link

Yes it is from the ACLU and yes I'm that liberal.


Great link, btw.
 
2012-08-18 05:52:12 PM
While I agree the war is a waste, the flip side to that is that there's still certain drugs that won't ever be legal. That being said, if we merely decriminalized marijuana, I'd imagine the funds that would be freed up could be used quite nicely for rehab purposes. Problem is, people use to avoid problems and pain, caused by horrible economic circumstances, much of which is caused by big government, which funds said war on drugs and in turn pay their people to fight it. So in theory, finishing the job will actually finish your employment, so why would you want to do that??

People never recognize when they're creating a no-win situation. Either that, or the money blinds.
 
2012-08-18 05:55:11 PM
how many times does this sort of thing have to happen before voters realize that addiction is a valid disease...? And its even treatable.
 
2012-08-18 05:58:21 PM

Weaver95: how many times does this sort of thing have to happen before voters realize that addiction is a valid disease...? And its even treatable.


They'll realize it when their news anchors and radio heads tell them it's an addiction. There's just too much money to be made on its criminalization.
 
2012-08-18 05:59:44 PM

FriarReb98: While I agree the war is a waste, the flip side to that is that there's still certain drugs that won't ever be legal. That being said, if we merely decriminalized marijuana, I'd imagine the funds that would be freed up could be used quite nicely for rehab purposes. Problem is, people use to avoid problems and pain, caused by horrible economic circumstances, much of which is caused by big government, which funds said war on drugs and in turn pay their people to fight it. So in theory, finishing the job will actually finish your employment, so why would you want to do that??

People never recognize when they're creating a no-win situation. Either that, or the money blinds.


Its not about them being legal it's about what the response is once someone if found using. Jail isn't the answer.. Mandatory treatment could very well be.
 
2012-08-18 06:15:37 PM
OxyContin replaced by explosion

I think I need coffee because I read this far and stopped, confused.


MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?


RON PAUL. But then you have to embrace the rest of the crazy that comes with him.
 
2012-08-18 06:17:55 PM

fusillade762: OxyContin replaced by explosion

I think I need coffee because I read this far and stopped, confused.


MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?

RON PAUL. But then you have to embrace the rest of the crazy that comes with him.


There is a third party candidate that supports ending it, but since people are too chickenshiat to take a chance on a Presidential election and vote third party, you bet we will be stuck with this godforsaken war for many years to come.
 
2012-08-18 06:18:40 PM
Obama mumbled something something about descheduling cannabis something and then appointed a right wing nut job to head the DEA - I think the same nut job Bush appointed.

Obama is ascared of rocking the boat.
 
2012-08-18 06:20:27 PM

cman: fusillade762: OxyContin replaced by explosion

I think I need coffee because I read this far and stopped, confused.


MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?

RON PAUL. But then you have to embrace the rest of the crazy that comes with him.

There is a third party candidate that supports ending it, but since people are too chickenshiat to take a chance on a Presidential election and vote third party, you bet we will be stuck with this godforsaken war for many years to come.


That's why I'd like to see instant runoff voting.
 
2012-08-18 06:57:44 PM
All in the game, yo.
 
2012-08-18 07:01:51 PM
I just shot up, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies
 
2012-08-18 07:07:47 PM
approves

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-08-18 07:09:54 PM

cman: Bontesla: xynix: Along with Reaganomics the war on drugs has been a complete failure. All the countries that followed the war on drugs policies are also in failure mode. Instead of jailing people how about we start treating them? We've had 30 years to try out this whole "throw everyone in jail" thing and all we've got out of it is a bunch of kids without dads/moms. Of course a druggy is going to get their fix regardless of how they have to get their fix. Smoking farking bath salts as an example.. My cousin was on heroine for almost 20 years (she now has bone cancer) and the only way she kicked the habit after being incarcerated 10+ times is after our family pooled our resources for treatment. If the government would have spent the money for that on her first arrest she probably wouldn't have cancer (they attribute it to drug use) and she wouldn't have cost tax payers 4 or 5 years of jail expense at $45k a year. Granted not all addicts recover on the first attempt but even 10+ times in treatment is a hell of a lot better/cheaper than jail.

Whatever.. Sensible solutions don't bring money into the DoJ.

This x infinity.

The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it


i don't know. most every election is the same old South Park episode where the kids have to choose between Doosh Nozzle and Shiat Sandwich for new school mascot. i think people would gladly elect a non-moran if there was ever one to vote for. it appears to me that the deeply disturbed have an incredible lock on politics.

we could have a wonderful candidate pop up tomorrow with all the right answers and we all know what would happen if we voted the bastard into office. that's right, he'd be like most every politician we have seen all our lives: he would flip the script and not live up to a single damn campaign promise. what's a Farker to do?

/tell your mom and dad i said hi.
 
2012-08-18 07:11:17 PM
That war on poverty has worked out pretty well though.
 
2012-08-18 07:13:37 PM

fusillade762: cman: fusillade762: OxyContin replaced by explosion

I think I need coffee because I read this far and stopped, confused.


MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?

RON PAUL. But then you have to embrace the rest of the crazy that comes with him.

There is a third party candidate that supports ending it, but since people are too chickenshiat to take a chance on a Presidential election and vote third party, you bet we will be stuck with this godforsaken war for many years to come.

That's why I'd like to see instant runoff voting.


This. This. Motherfarking THIS.

/sorry, got a little excited there
 
2012-08-18 07:19:15 PM
Why do they have the old Union Jack flag in the photo? The French are not going to like this!. Also, I would have to take drugs if I lived in Canada. How the heck can they live with $2 coins?
 
2012-08-18 07:22:01 PM

MrBallou: cman: The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it

I'm anti-drug but this was an idiot solution to the problem. DEA was the DHS of its time, a "look, we're doing something" approach that accomplished nothing good.

Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?


Ron Paul
 
2012-08-18 07:25:36 PM

MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?


Ron Paul
 
2012-08-18 07:29:22 PM
C'mon, people! Heroin gets a capital "H." All registered trademarks are proper nouns. 

That goes for you as well, Megan Oglivie!
 
2012-08-18 07:34:47 PM
War on drugs:

blog.anthemvoice.org
 
2012-08-18 07:44:13 PM
Time to introduce them to the Krokodil...
 
2012-08-18 07:44:59 PM

Bontesla: The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.


The war on drugs could be thought of as a giant gang's money laundering scheme.
All the tax money is recycled into the economy to pay for prisons, detentions, prison guards, cops, agents, and all the equipment they use, including private prison contractors. And then there's are all the prosecutors, paralegals, judges and staffers. Never mind all the latest extremely high-dollar Jack Bauer gear, including weapons. And most of those, despite their unsavory authoritarian natures, are the "good" jobs that pay well and provide ample benefits and retirement provisions.
All that's got to be paid for and that's a double buttload of economic stimulus.
It's stupid stimulus, probably just slightly less dumb than an actual shooting war against another country, but stimulus nevertheless.

Please understand that I'm not endorsing this system in any way, but just saying.
I don't know if the old Soviet model of having all these people "work" in tractor and toaster factories would be any better, but damn, time to stop wasting the national human and material capital doing this nonsense.
 
2012-08-18 07:48:27 PM

MrBallou: cman: The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it

I'm anti-drug but this was an idiot solution to the problem. DEA was the DHS of its time, a "look, we're doing something" approach that accomplished nothing good.

Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?


Ron Paul.


But he is an MD, so Congress ignores his opinion on medical matters.
 
2012-08-18 07:59:07 PM

cman: LOL

These folks are gonna be wondering why they stuck with oxy for all time time considering how powerful heroin is


go for the easy high or the hard high, though. heroin is illegal. oxycotin is just a prescription away. ease of access trumps intensity of high, i reckon.
i think the article is being moronic when it gasps about communities never having had a problem with heroin before, as if the communities had never had to deal with heavy illicit drug use before.

they did have to deal with it. it just came with a prescription and abuse of scripts. now, they get to deal with their drug problem the old fashioned way, and there's less hiding behind 'i got a script so it must be okay.'
 
2012-08-18 08:01:31 PM
My favorite thing about a 20 bag of Heroin (copyright Bayer) is that it can keep me high all weekend and then I can piss clean on Wednesday! It's the workin' man's narcotic!

/too bad about the needing to poop thing
/actually don't do Heroin
/because it's addictive
 
2012-08-18 08:05:04 PM
People live in communities surrounded by people who are junkies. Young, old or any social class and they still use the drugs thinking they can handle it. Arguments about the war on drugs or legalization never seem to deal with the fact that were gonna have communities of junkies regardless of legal availability. It's amazing how the whole drug issue gets argued like everything else. My team is right and yours is wrong.

I'm convinced the thing any politician appeals to most is an individuals need to look down on somebody.
 
2012-08-18 08:09:48 PM

MrBallou: cman: The war on drugs is not just a failure. It's a hundred billion dollar failure.

And we keep on electing morons who refuse to end it

I'm anti-drug but this was an idiot solution to the problem. DEA was the DHS of its time, a "look, we're doing something" approach that accomplished nothing good.

Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?


Ending it? You could get maybe 10% of the House to vote to just decriminalize weed, and you would have zero Senators.

And that's the low hanging fruit.
 
2012-08-18 08:18:37 PM
Heroin was OTC at the turn of the prior century, civilization survived.
 
2012-08-18 08:41:33 PM

signaljammer: Heroin was OTC at the turn of the prior century, civilization survived.


Yes, but no one used it because opium and lighter drugs were also legal. Soon as opium was outlawed, people who were content to drink opium were forced to shoot heroin.

And as soon as beer and wine were outlawed in 1919, people were forced to drink 160--proof "bathtub gin."

And as soon as marijuana was outlawed, people started smoking more and more of it, and dusting it with harmful chemicals like PCP, and it also got ten times stronger.

And as soon as LSD was outlawed, we got STP, PCP, MDA, MDAA, MDMA and a whole "alphabet soup" of new chemicals.

And as soon as Ecstasy was outlawed, we got "bath salts," rohypnol and a whole slew of worse garbage.

And while I am on the subject, now that guns are under consideration for being outlawed, I am seeing a great increase in books on how to make bombs.

Yessirreee, it is sure getting interesting out there.
 
2012-08-18 08:50:19 PM

KrispyKritter: we could have a wonderful candidate pop up tomorrow with all the right answers and we all know what would happen if we voted the bastard into office. that's right, he'd be like most every politician we have seen all our lives: he would flip the script and not live up to a single damn campaign promise. what's a Farker to do?


The wealthy look after the wealthy. They just can't think any other way; their brains are pretty much hard-wired that way.

Politicians brains are also incapable of feeling any guilt, unless its for their monied buddies.
 
2012-08-18 08:57:43 PM

lewismarktwo: My favorite thing about a 20 bag of Heroin (copyright Bayer) is that it can keep me high all weekend and then I can piss clean on Wednesday! It's the workin' man's narcotic!

/too bad about the needing to poop thing
/actually don't do Heroin
/because it's addictive


Yeah, the whole piss test thing is absolutely moronic. The only thing it reliably detects is weed. If you can put up with withdrawal symptoms for a day, you'll never pop positive for anything else. Hell, if you stick to powerful psychedelics, you won't even be having withdrawals. Also unfortunately, that quarter that keeps you farked up for the weekend pretty rapidly becomes the quarter that doesn't do shiat after 3 hours...
 
2012-08-18 09:06:38 PM

elkraf: Why do they have the old Union Jack flag in the photo? The French are not going to like this!. Also, I would have to take drugs if I lived in Canada. How the heck can they live with $2 coins?


At least they are more widely accepted that your 2 dollar bills...
 
2012-08-18 09:44:22 PM
I came in here to say that I'm actually quite pleased to see one of the good ones become a Police Chief. That's a little off topic, but it's not every day that I get to read a news story that features somebody I've personally known and respected and that he's moved up the ladder.
 
2012-08-18 09:58:30 PM
Consequences not unintended at all. This is exactly what was intended. More heroin use means more arrests (better for police stats) and more money for the prison industry which helps to fund the campaigns of the politicians who vote for this crazy shiat.

Also, never doubt that police use the knowledge that they collect on politicians to keep them in line when required. Why do you think politicians love cops so much and do everything they say? Its because almost every politician has something in their past that would be leaked by cops if they voted against police interests.
 
2012-08-18 10:03:45 PM

CokeBear: Consequences not unintended at all. This is exactly what was intended. More heroin use means more arrests (better for police stats) and more money for the prison industry which helps to fund the campaigns of the politicians who vote for this crazy shiat.

Also, never doubt that police use the knowledge that they collect on politicians to keep them in line when required. Why do you think politicians love cops so much and do everything they say? Its because almost every politician has something in their past that would be leaked by cops if they voted against police interests.


You know where Peterborough, Ontario is right?
 
2012-08-18 10:06:53 PM

elkraf: Why do they have the old Union Jack flag in the photo? The French are not going to like this!. Also, I would have to take drugs if I lived in Canada. How the heck can they live with $2 coins?


That is the provincial flag of Ontario.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ontario
 
2012-08-18 10:17:28 PM
It's simple. If you choose to become a junkie waste of life, then you receive zero help from society and are dumped into the ocean from 10,000 feet.
 
2012-08-18 10:20:03 PM
Yeah, CF, where is your Clockwork Orange?
 
2012-08-18 10:32:10 PM

CelticFrost: It's simple. If you choose to become a junkie waste of life, then you receive zero help from society and are dumped into the ocean from 10,000 feet.


You smoke cigarettes? Drink coffee? Eat chocolate?
 
2012-08-18 10:32:22 PM

xynix: FriarReb98: While I agree the war is a waste, the flip side to that is that there's still certain drugs that won't ever be legal. That being said, if we merely decriminalized marijuana, I'd imagine the funds that would be freed up could be used quite nicely for rehab purposes. Problem is, people use to avoid problems and pain, caused by horrible economic circumstances, much of which is caused by big government, which funds said war on drugs and in turn pay their people to fight it. So in theory, finishing the job will actually finish your employment, so why would you want to do that??

People never recognize when they're creating a no-win situation. Either that, or the money blinds.

Its not about them being legal it's about what the response is once someone if found using. Jail isn't the answer.. Mandatory treatment could very well be.


Treatment is only useful when the person WANTS treatment, and even then it doesn't always work.

Forcing people into rehab is no different than imprisoning them if they're not in the right frame of their lives for it to work.
 
2012-08-18 10:36:29 PM

fusillade762: cman: fusillade762: OxyContin replaced by explosion

I think I need coffee because I read this far and stopped, confused.


MrBallou: Sincere question, because I'm too lazy to research it: Who in congress talking about ending it? Who are the guys we should be supporting?

RON PAUL. But then you have to embrace the rest of the crazy that comes with him.

There is a third party candidate that supports ending it, but since people are too chickenshiat to take a chance on a Presidential election and vote third party, you bet we will be stuck with this godforsaken war for many years to come.

That's why I'd like to see instant runoff voting.


I think a general Referendum would be much more useful.

Do you want (name the drug, likely pot as someone pointed out that legalizing it would free up alot of government money) to be legal?

Check yes or no

/I think the young segment of the public who didn't care enough to vote before would suddenly embrace their civic rights and duties in regards to elections
 
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