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(WFTV Orlando)   If you thought that force feeding autistic children hot sauce soaked crayons is not an acceptable therapy method, you might want to revise your educational philosophy. Then again, this is Florida   (wftv.com) divider line 119
    More: Followup, educational philosophy, Play-Doh, Osceola County, therapy, WFTV  
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6606 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2012 at 7:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-18 02:58:28 PM
FTA: "On Friday a judge issued an order recommending the district reinstate her job."

"The judge ordered the teacher won't get any back pay, but the final decision about what happens is up to the school board."

So does the district have to take her back or not?
 
2012-08-18 04:05:17 PM
BarkingUnicorn: So does the district have to take her back or not?

I believe it's a recommendation, and as such, carries no legally binding effect other than "Well, some judge says we should re-hire her." (Snickers heard in the background.)
 
2012-08-18 04:11:32 PM
Well the judge may as take her back but what does the state licensing board say? I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids around her anymore.
 
2012-08-18 04:23:18 PM
Did it work?
 
2012-08-18 04:45:13 PM
I guess I understand the initial thought-process behind this, specifically to get the kid to stop eating crayons.

However, the practical application doesn't seem to account for when the kid uses the crayons, then: rubs their eyes, touches other kids, eats something with their hands, etc.
 
2012-08-18 05:19:45 PM
Wonder what the CPT code is for that?
 
2012-08-18 05:24:47 PM
Real autistic kids or "autistic" kids?

Because, if it's some spoiled brat who the parents managed to get labeled as autistic to hide their failings, then the teacher was spot-on.
 
2012-08-18 06:11:25 PM
I say if the kid wants to eat crayons let them. Make them bring their own next time.
 
2012-08-18 06:26:34 PM

BronyMedic: BarkingUnicorn: So does the district have to take her back or not?

I believe it's a recommendation, and as such, carries no legally binding effect other than "Well, some judge says we should re-hire her." (Snickers heard in the background.)


I don't understand what kind of "court" this was heard in. County judges issue orders; they don't just make non-binding recommendations.

Bad reporters!
 
2012-08-18 07:08:12 PM
If you thought that force feeding autistic children hot sauce soaked crayons is not an acceptable therapy method

FTFS. Common grammar mistake. I often retype sentences and forget to remove negative qualifiers, correct tense, etc...

*reads article*

WTF? Sorry subby. Spoke too soon.
 
2012-08-18 07:55:57 PM

Ed Finnerty: I guess I understand the initial thought-process behind this, specifically to get the kid to stop eating crayons.

However, the practical application doesn't seem to account for when the kid uses the crayons, then: rubs their eyes, touches other kids, eats something with their hands, etc.


Yeah, that basically my thoughts on it. A cunning plan that wasn't so well thought out.
 
2012-08-18 07:58:59 PM
What kind of hot sauce? This is important.
 
2012-08-18 07:59:33 PM
Taco Bell announces it's new menu item in 5... 4...
 
2012-08-18 07:59:35 PM
I think hot sauce would probably improve the taste of crayons.
 
2012-08-18 07:59:55 PM

SilentStrider: Wonder what the CPT code is for that?


One of the generic ones, we always required documentation for this type of therapy.
 
2012-08-18 08:07:07 PM

Hot Carl To Go: What kind of hot sauce? This is important.


It really kind of is. I stick mostly to Frank's and Huy Fong Siracha these days, which are only around 1500 scovilles... not that hot. On the other hand, I remember my ex coming into the kitchen while I was cutting up habeneros, then suddenly disappearing. A half hour later, when dinner was ready, I was searching through the house, and she was in the shower trying to wash off the burn. Just from being in the room.

I really wish she had told me about it, I could have offered more immediate comfort (ie, some vegetable oil and paper towels). Poor girl didn't know water just spreads it around.
 
2012-08-18 08:15:11 PM

dahmers love zombie: Did it work?


Probably not. My dude had pics. Regardless parents and a psychologist should have been consulted.

If this was a normal child and a normal teacher, shiat would have hit the fan.
 
2012-08-18 08:16:34 PM
So, contrary to the headline, there was no force-feeding.
 
2012-08-18 08:16:44 PM

fusillade762: I say if the kid wants to eat crayons let them. Make them bring their own next time.


Hrm. They *are* non-toxic and biodegradable. Military rule of thumb: If your body can turn it into a turd, it HAS to be food. So I'm gonna agree with ya on this one.
 
2012-08-18 08:19:05 PM
Magenta with ( name your sauce ).
 
2012-08-18 08:33:16 PM

Gwendolyn: Well the judge may as take her back but what does the state licensing board say? I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids around her anymore.


So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?
 
2012-08-18 08:41:20 PM
This is so wrong.

Everyone knows that you're supposed to feed retards pudding.
 
2012-08-18 08:52:43 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Gwendolyn: Well the judge may as take her back but what does the state licensing board say? I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids around her anymore.

So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?


No, you remove them like all adults do. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Also, tainting said crayons is still letting the child eat it. Kind of an oxymoron.
 
2012-08-18 08:54:36 PM

WhippingBoy: This is so wrong.

Everyone knows that you're supposed to feed retards pudding.


Hey, you know it's offensive to actual retards to compare them with autistic kids.
 
2012-08-18 08:55:15 PM
obligatory post about autism being a euphemism for poor parenting

obligatory post about raising an autistic child being more rewarding because of the challenge

obligatory post about vaccines

obligatory post about some kid i saw doing something once

obligatory post about unconditional love

obligatory post about missing the point and making a reference to counting to potato
 
2012-08-18 08:56:05 PM

kidsizedcoffin: SilentStrider: Wonder what the CPT code is for that?

One of the generic ones, we always required documentation for this type of therapy.


Nuts. I hate working those.
 
2012-08-18 08:56:22 PM
Back in the day, they used aversion therapy to "cure" autism. From what I understand, it involved being hugged by Elvis:

www.tcb-world.com
 
2012-08-18 08:57:13 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: WhippingBoy: This is so wrong.

Everyone knows that you're supposed to feed retards pudding.

Hey, you know it's offensive to actual retards to compare them with autistic kids.


I know "welcome to fark" but this really killed my soal today.
 
2012-08-18 08:59:04 PM

sleeps in trees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: WhippingBoy: This is so wrong.

Everyone knows that you're supposed to feed retards pudding.

Hey, you know it's offensive to actual retards to compare them with autistic kids.

I know "welcome to fark" but this really killed my soal today.


Andy spelling sucks.
 
2012-08-18 09:00:17 PM

sleeps in trees: sleeps in trees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: WhippingBoy: This is so wrong.

Everyone knows that you're supposed to feed retards pudding.

Hey, you know it's offensive to actual retards to compare them with autistic kids.

I know "welcome to fark" but this really killed my soal today.

Andy spelling sucks.


fark it. I'm going to flap down the hallway and play lego.... Just fark it.
 
2012-08-18 09:03:39 PM

Cpl.D: Military rule of thumb: If your body can turn it into a turd, it HAS to be food


so awesome
 
2012-08-18 09:06:17 PM

Ed Finnerty: I guess I understand the initial thought-process behind this, specifically to get the kid to stop eating crayons.

However, the practical application doesn't seem to account for when the kid uses the crayons, then: rubs their eyes, touches other kids, eats something with their hands, etc.


Reality check here people -- you're talking about hot sauce, a common condiment that you put on your food. You're not talking about radium or arsenic or some drug that must be prescribed by a physician. She appears to have tried to deter crayon-eating (crayons, BTW, being something that doesn't belong in your body) by using spicy food. What's next -- are you going to expect firing for a harsh tone of voice?

Admittedly, if you take the headline at face value you'd think this is an outrage, but subby is a jackass, submitting deliberately false taglines is in vogue these days (maybe this is some kind of ironic/hipster thing) and the teacher doesn't appear to have force-fed anybody anything.
 
2012-08-18 09:12:58 PM
FTA: "Officials said she first got jumbo-sized crayons, put them in a cup, then poured hot sauce over them and she later moved them to a bag and labeled it with the student's name, and let the crayons sit for days. "

Is this that new kind of force-feeding that they're trying to outlaw in New York?
 
2012-08-18 09:13:11 PM

letrole: obligatory post about autism being a euphemism for poor parenting

obligatory post about raising an autistic child being more rewarding because of the challenge

obligatory post about vaccines

obligatory post about some kid i saw doing something once

obligatory post about unconditional love

obligatory post about missing the point and making a reference to counting to potato


Obligatory post about one's surname.
 
2012-08-18 09:18:45 PM

ShannonKW: Ed Finnerty: I guess I understand the initial thought-process behind this, specifically to get the kid to stop eating crayons.

However, the practical application doesn't seem to account for when the kid uses the crayons, then: rubs their eyes, touches other kids, eats something with their hands, etc.

Reality check here people -- you're talking about hot sauce, a common condiment that you put on your food. You're not talking about radium or arsenic or some drug that must be prescribed by a physician. She appears to have tried to deter crayon-eating (crayons, BTW, being something that doesn't belong in your body) by using spicy food. What's next -- are you going to expect firing for a harsh tone of voice?

Admittedly, if you take the headline at face value you'd think this is an outrage, but subby is a jackass, submitting deliberately false taglines is in vogue these days (maybe this is some kind of ironic/hipster thing) and the teacher doesn't appear to have force-fed anybody anything.


Shannon, hot sauce is not as common as you think. Secondly parents with autistic children guard and entrust sp needs teachers to keep them safe (that is part of their pay cheque).

A harsh tone of voice is a rational and impulsive action, not premeditating harm.

Further the school system gets an allotted amount of monies to help with his education and a consultant is legally required to make any behavioral descisions.

I
 
2012-08-18 09:20:39 PM

ShannonKW: Ed Finnerty: I guess I understand the initial thought-process behind this, specifically to get the kid to stop eating crayons.

However, the practical application doesn't seem to account for when the kid uses the crayons, then: rubs their eyes, touches other kids, eats something with their hands, etc.

Reality check here people -- you're talking about hot sauce, a common condiment that you put on your food. You're not talking about radium or arsenic or some drug that must be prescribed by a physician. She appears to have tried to deter crayon-eating (crayons, BTW, being something that doesn't belong in your body) by using spicy food. What's next -- are you going to expect firing for a harsh tone of voice?

Admittedly, if you take the headline at face value you'd think this is an outrage, but subby is a jackass, submitting deliberately false taglines is in vogue these days (maybe this is some kind of ironic/hipster thing) and the teacher doesn't appear to have force-fed anybody anything.


So, it's a food product essentially?
 
2012-08-18 09:22:54 PM
I am officially declaring "Hot Sauce Crayons" as the best band name ever!
 
2012-08-18 09:25:56 PM
He's autisic and probably doesn't know better but at the same time this type of punishment is nothing new. I don't know if it's still used now but using hot sauce on a kids thumb was a popular way to break the thumb-sucking habit. That, and lemon juice for nail biters.
But highly inappropriate in the teacher/student discipline relationship.
 
2012-08-18 09:26:11 PM

sleeps in trees: So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?

No, you remove them like all adults do. Why is this so hard to comprehend?


A teacher isn't "all adults." Neither, for that matter, are you.

The teacher's job is to help the kid learn how to use the crayons. She can't do that by taking them away. One of the most basic things the kid needs to learn about crayons is that they belong on paper, not in his mouth. So, she decided to make the crayons taste bad, perhaps on the theory that one is less likely to put a bad-tasting object in one's mouth.

Here's something for you to comprehend: she is accused of making something taste bad -- something that is not food and that she had no duty to preserve the flavor of. Depending on how the autistic kid feels about spicy food she may not even be guilty of that.
 
2012-08-18 09:31:37 PM

ShannonKW: sleeps in trees: So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?

No, you remove them like all adults do. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

A teacher isn't "all adults." Neither, for that matter, are you.

The teacher's job is to help the kid learn how to use the crayons. She can't do that by taking them away. One of the most basic things the kid needs to learn about crayons is that they belong on paper, not in his mouth. So, she decided to make the crayons taste bad, perhaps on the theory that one is less likely to put a bad-tasting object in one's mouth.

Here's something for you to comprehend: she is accused of making something taste bad -- something that is not food and that she had no duty to preserve the flavor of. Depending on how the autistic kid feels about spicy food she may not even be guilty of that.


For all we know, the parents of the autistic kid feed him crayons for dinner 3 nights a week. Maybe that's how he got the autism. Ever consider that??
 
2012-08-18 09:33:08 PM

thamike: So, contrary to the headline, there was no force-feeding.

Lillian Gomez was fired earlier this year after district officials said she soaked Play-Doh and crayons in hot sauce and force-fed them to a student.


I'm not certain what this means... but it does in fact say force-fed. Which sounds bad.
 
2012-08-18 09:34:30 PM

ShannonKW: sleeps in trees: So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?

No, you remove them like all adults do. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

A teacher isn't "all adults." Neither, for that matter, are you.

The teacher's job is to help the kid learn how to use the crayons. She can't do that by taking them away. One of the most basic things the kid needs to learn about crayons is that they belong on paper, not in his mouth. So, she decided to make the crayons taste bad, perhaps on the theory that one is less likely to put a bad-tasting object in one's mouth.

Here's something for you to comprehend: she is accused of making something taste bad -- something that is not food and that she had no duty to preserve the flavor of. Depending on how the autistic kid feels about spicy food she may not even be guilty of that.


Here is something for you to comprehend, she had no right to do that. According to numerous precedence she crossed the line with no education to back her up.

Further as a tx that works with these children their senses are magnified. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The child commonly ate crayons. She had no "duty" to fark with him. If someone did that to a "normal" child's milk you would be outraged. Aversion is now considered barbaric and abusive.
 
2012-08-18 09:35:16 PM
As someone who works with autistic students all day, I can understand where the teacher is coming from. Here's the situation - four kids in a room (we are very lucky, we get small rooms), 3 love to color, 1 eats crayons. You can't take the crayons away from the one without taking it away from the other three. She 'treats his crayons' to make them unappealing. It doesn't sound much different than the nail stuff my brother had to use to stop him from chewing on his fingernails.

It's not evil, but it's not good teaching, either.
 
2012-08-18 09:37:24 PM

jpat: As someone who works with autistic students all day, I can understand where the teacher is coming from. Here's the situation - four kids in a room (we are very lucky, we get small rooms), 3 love to color, 1 eats crayons. You can't take the crayons away from the one without taking it away from the other three. She 'treats his crayons' to make them unappealing. It doesn't sound much different than the nail stuff my brother had to use to stop him from chewing on his fingernails.

It's not evil, but it's not good teaching, either.


fark I hate you all sometimes.
 
2012-08-18 09:41:19 PM

sleeps in trees: hot sauce is not as common as you think. Secondly parents with autistic children guard and entrust sp needs teachers to keep them safe


Assuming you're serious, it looks like we don't have enough common ground to discuss this. The best I can tell you is that you have a very broad notion of what constitutes a threat from which children need to be kept safe, and you are perhaps hasty assuming that all sensible adults (or even most of us) see it as you do.
 
2012-08-18 09:41:37 PM

sleeps in trees: jpat: As someone who works with autistic students all day, I can understand where the teacher is coming from. Here's the situation - four kids in a room (we are very lucky, we get small rooms), 3 love to color, 1 eats crayons. You can't take the crayons away from the one without taking it away from the other three. She 'treats his crayons' to make them unappealing. It doesn't sound much different than the nail stuff my brother had to use to stop him from chewing on his fingernails.

It's not evil, but it's not good teaching, either.

fark I hate you all sometimes.


So what's your solution? The other children are coloring, so you can't remove the crayons "like all adults do." You're in the situation described. Since the proposed solutions are so completely reprehensible as to cause you to hate the people suggesting them (en masse, no less) what is your proposed solution?
 
2012-08-18 09:43:29 PM

jpat: It doesn't sound much different than the nail stuff my brother had to use to stop him from chewing on his fingernails.


For me it a long sleeve shirt and gloves duct taped together to get me to stop sucking my fingers.
 
2012-08-18 09:47:09 PM

jpat: As someone who works with autistic students all day, I can understand where the teacher is coming from. Here's the situation - four kids in a room (we are very lucky, we get small rooms), 3 love to color, 1 eats crayons. You can't take the crayons away from the one without taking it away from the other three. She 'treats his crayons' to make them unappealing. It doesn't sound much different than the nail stuff my brother had to use to stop him from chewing on his fingernails.

It's not evil, but it's not good teaching, either.


Same working situation as you, but I disagree. You can totally takes the wax eaters crayons away and not the others. If they want crayons, they should not eat them. This is an autistic child, not a vegetable. Training a person with mental issues just takes longer, but you don't give up before you try.
 
2012-08-18 09:48:00 PM

ShannonKW: sleeps in trees: So.... she should let the kids eat crayons?

No, you remove them like all adults do. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

A teacher isn't "all adults." Neither, for that matter, are you.

The teacher's job is to help the kid learn how to use the crayons. She can't do that by taking them away. One of the most basic things the kid needs to learn about crayons is that they belong on paper, not in his mouth. So, she decided to make the crayons taste bad, perhaps on the theory that one is less likely to put a bad-tasting object in one's mouth.

Here's something for you to comprehend: she is accused of making something taste bad -- something that is not food and that she had no duty to preserve the flavor of. Depending on how the autistic kid feels about spicy food she may not even be guilty of that.


At that age you can warp a kid's mind. Using hot sauce as a 'surprise' teaching aid is borderline child abuse. This teacher is clearly not very bright. You start a kid's academic career off like that, you could very well be farking his or her life up.

That revolting sow has no business working with kids.
 
2012-08-18 09:49:03 PM

ShannonKW: sleeps in trees: hot sauce is not as common as you think. Secondly parents with autistic children guard and entrust sp needs teachers to keep them safe

Assuming you're serious, it looks like we don't have enough common ground to discuss this. The best I can tell you is that you have a very broad notion of what constitutes a threat from which children need to be kept safe, and you are perhaps hasty assuming that all sensible adults (or even most of us) see it as you do.


Or some of us are educated, in autism, unlike this teacher, and you.

Psst, crayons aren't a threat.
 
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