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(9 News)   Man who left dog stranded on a mountain faces charges   (9news.com) divider line 163
    More: Followup, animal cruelty, Castor and Pollux, rescue groups, German Shepherd, dogs, Anthony Ortalani, trailhead  
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6336 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2012 at 5:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-18 02:20:05 PM
Good and hopefully this will prevent him from being able to try and claim the dog. He shouldn't feel bad since he wrote the dog off as dead anyways once he left the mountain and doesn't deserve a reunion.
 
2012-08-18 02:30:08 PM
Good and no way should he get the dog back.
 
2012-08-18 03:34:49 PM
What kills me is that the dog would be totally happy to see him.
 
2012-08-18 04:48:09 PM
media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-18 05:48:06 PM
How hard of a climb is it?

How much would a helicopter rescue have cost (would a civilian helicopter be allowed to land up there?)
 
2012-08-18 06:01:40 PM
Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.
 
2012-08-18 06:06:08 PM

mauricecano: Good and hopefully this will prevent him from being able to try and claim the dog. He shouldn't feel bad since he wrote the dog off as dead anyways once he left the mountain and doesn't deserve a reunion.


And what info are you using to come to that conclusion? He contacted the authorities and a search and rescue group and was told to pound sand. I think there is a lot of fail here but "writing the dog off" is a bit of a stretch based on the info provided.
 
2012-08-18 06:06:23 PM

SmackLT: What kills me is that the dog would be totally happy to see him.


I didn't even think about that but it's so true.
I can't possibly imagine not doing everything possible in my power to save my dog. This guy is a scumbag.
 
2012-08-18 06:06:51 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Good and no way should he get the dog back.


Damn skippy.

Hopefully he gets pistol whipped at some point, too.
 
2012-08-18 06:06:55 PM

Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.


The cat you lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes.
 
2012-08-18 06:08:31 PM
"[H]e made little attempt to go back up and get the dog or try to make any other arraignments to retrieve the dog and get it back," Sgt. Rick Safe with the Clear Creek County Sheriff's Department said.

...

Ortalani says he contacted a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department but was told it was too risky to send a rescue crew up for the dog.


So instead of contacting a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department, he needed to file charges against his dog?
 
2012-08-18 06:08:36 PM
FTA:

With the dog unable to walk, Ortalani says he tried to carry the dog off the mountain but was unable. He says that attempts to lower the dog with ropes were injuring the dog even more, and with a storm approaching, he was forced to leave the dog behind.

Once down the mountain, Ortalani says he contacted a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department but was told it was too risky to send a rescue crew up for the dog.
In his posting on 14ers.com the Ortalani says, "I am at a complete loss of words. My gratitude for the people involved in this is without measure."

He went on to say, "I humbly beg the forgiveness of the community and most of all my Missy Girl. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart."


Read this please before you get all preachy and indigent.
 
2012-08-18 06:08:38 PM
What I heard last night is that the rescuers told him he was not getting the dog back.
 
2012-08-18 06:08:56 PM
it said he contacted a rescue team and the sheriff's department, who both said they weren't going up there just for a dog. then the sheriff's department charges him with animal cruelty. seems like he really didn't think he could get the dog down, and that the authorities didn't give a flip, until they decided to charge him. he probably should have contacted the local news station, and I'm not saying he should get the dog back, but sheriff office is being a prick.
 
2012-08-18 06:09:25 PM
If he asked the police to help him save the dog then how can they charge him with animal cruelty when they refused to provide the capability to save the dog?
 
2012-08-18 06:10:00 PM

gingerjet: And what info are you using to come to that conclusion? He contacted the authorities and a search and rescue group and was told to pound sand.


You put a child in danger and tell the mother or father to go pound sand. See what actually happens.

If my dog was stuck on a mountain, there'd be a missing person report on the mountain. ME. Because I'd be up on top of the mountain making sure my dog was recovering. Also, maybe then rescuers would be dispatched.
 
2012-08-18 06:10:44 PM
With the dog unable to walk, Ortalani says he tried to carry the dog off the mountain but was unable. He says that attempts to lower the dog with ropes were injuring the dog even more, and with a storm approaching, he was forced to leave the dog behind.

Once down the mountain, Ortalani says he contacted a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department but was told it was too risky to send a rescue crew up for the dog.


Sounds to me like he took resonable steps to get the dog off the mountain. Do people here really expect him to drain his savings to spend $10k+ for a helicopter rescue(rough idea form goggling) to save a dog? Maybe he should have killed the dog before he left it to suffer alone, but it seems he planned on coming back.
 
2012-08-18 06:10:48 PM
I wish he'd been so concerned about his dog when he decided to take it up the mountain in the first place.

/it's not a wolf, it's a f**kin' house pet, douchebag
 
2012-08-18 06:11:42 PM
Um, for taking the dog up there in the first place, having him unleashed/not under control during a snow storm?

Sort of like if you did the same thing with your kid. Only maybe they'd send out a few resources to rescue the kid (not in California anymore, I'm guessing, but maybe on federal land - oh wait, unless the Ryan budget plan passes).
 
2012-08-18 06:12:09 PM

Nem Wan: If he asked the police to help him save the dog then how can they charge him with animal cruelty when they refused to provide the capability to save the dog?


Because humanity is going down the shiatter.
 
2012-08-18 06:12:14 PM
indigent is not indignant. But even I posted this, I guarantee someone won't see this and will call me out for the error in my initial contribution to the thread.
 
2012-08-18 06:12:47 PM

Lars The Canadian Viking: With the dog unable to walk, Ortalani says he tried to carry the dog off the mountain but was unable. He says that attempts to lower the dog with ropes were injuring the dog even more, and with a storm approaching, he was forced to leave the dog behind.

Once down the mountain, Ortalani says he contacted a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department but was told it was too risky to send a rescue crew up for the dog.


Sounds to me like he took resonable steps to get the dog off the mountain. Do people here really expect him to drain his savings to spend $10k+ for a helicopter rescue(rough idea form goggling) to save a dog? Maybe he should have killed the dog before he left it to suffer alone, but it seems he planned on coming back.


Yeah, really - sort of. (Not to the kill the dog part obviously).

But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.
 
2012-08-18 06:13:09 PM

doglover: If my dog was stuck on a mountain, there'd be a missing person report on the mountain. ME. Because I'd be up on top of the mountain making sure my dog was recovering. Also, maybe then rescuers would be dispatched.


This.
 
2012-08-18 06:13:21 PM

Lars The Canadian Viking: Maybe he should have killed the dog before he left it to suffer alone


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-18 06:14:18 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.


Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.
 
2012-08-18 06:14:56 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Um, for taking the dog up there in the first place, having him unleashed/not under control during a snow storm?

Sort of like if you did the same thing with your kid. Only maybe they'd send out a few resources to rescue the kid (not in California anymore, I'm guessing, but maybe on federal land - oh wait, unless the Ryan budget plan passes).


people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment? I know you're a certified f*cking idiot, but see if you can reevaluate this.
 
2012-08-18 06:15:45 PM
farm8.staticflickr.com

"The part of the story I don't like is that the little boy gave up looking for Happy after an hour. He didn't put posters up or anything, he just sat on the porch like a goon and waited. That little boy's gotta think 'You got a pet. You got a responsibility.' If your dog gets lost you don't look for an hour then call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that farking dog".
 
2012-08-18 06:19:03 PM

relcec: people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment?


It's the difference between letting your kid ride a bike and letting your kid ride a bike without a helmet.

People who take dogs up mountains shouldn't be charged. People who LEAVE dogs on mountains should be keel hauled.... in a dry dock.
 
2012-08-18 06:19:07 PM
The guy Obviously made a mistake taking the dog up there. If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that
 
2012-08-18 06:20:46 PM

Ed Finnerty:


STOP THAT!!!
 
2012-08-18 06:21:31 PM
People:
Leave your stupid dogs at home.
Better yet, stay there with them.
 
2012-08-18 06:22:27 PM
When Missy was eventually located, she had been on the mountain for eight days without food or water.




Should tie his ass to a tree on the same mountain for the same length of time. That's justice.
 
2012-08-18 06:22:27 PM

UncleStumpy: The guy Obviously made a mistake taking the dog up there. If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that


My understanding is the dog was found 8 days later, presumably after the bad weather passed. I would not leave my dog stranded, but if I did I would sure as hell go back up after the bad weather passed. Also if you bring a dog up a mountain and strand it, you are a bad person. period.
 
2012-08-18 06:23:39 PM

UncleStumpy: I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet.


Then you don't love animals. Obviously.
 
2012-08-18 06:25:31 PM

doglover: relcec: people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment?

It's the difference between letting your kid ride a bike and letting your kid ride a bike without a helmet.

People who take dogs up mountains shouldn't be charged. People who LEAVE dogs on mountains should be keel hauled.... in a dry dock.


listen, we all realize you have a lot going with your business and family life and all and have your priorities in order, because you already told us if you couldn't get your dog down you would die with it up in the mountains in the snowstorm.
you maybe a little too close to this topic to get a good look at it.
maybe you should just let the more grounded people around you decide what is reasonable care for a canine.
 
2012-08-18 06:27:54 PM
How can we be sure the dog is alive? Dogs wag their tails for hours after they're dead.
 
2012-08-18 06:28:35 PM
If only he had just strapped him to the roof and driven back home.
 
2012-08-18 06:29:48 PM

UncleStumpy: If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that


A big THIS
 
2012-08-18 06:32:57 PM

relcec: family life


Dogs ARE family. It's as simple as that.

If you can take your kid up the mountain, you can get your kid down.

If you can take your dog up the mountain, you can get your dog down.

If you can't rescue your own family, you aren't worthy of having said family and you should face charges for placing them in danger.

If he had gone straight to facebook or the local news with "Help, my dog's stuck on a mountain." This would be the story of one man's heroic effort to save his beloved pet. As it is, it's the story of a jackass who thinks living creatures are somehow mobile property. It's only a small step mental to transfer that kind of sick emotional lack to humans. The dude SHOULD face charges at the VERY least.
 
2012-08-18 06:34:25 PM

AssAsInAssassin: How can we be sure the dog is alive? Dogs wag their tails for hours after they're dead.


Longer than that.

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-18 06:35:57 PM
Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.
 
2012-08-18 06:36:17 PM

The Martian Manhandler: Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.

The cat you lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes.


It's true it's true, and he's cute!
www.felineconservation.org
 
2012-08-18 06:37:07 PM
GOOD.
 
2012-08-18 06:37:39 PM
Good, farker.
He should be flown by helicopter up to a mountain top and left there as punishment.

/cock sucker.
 
2012-08-18 06:37:43 PM
Were they climbing this mountain or just hiking it? It should be pretty easy to get your dog down a mountain you both hiked up...come back the next day with some socks for the dog (and food and water). Dog didn't need ropes to get up, she won't need em to get down. I don't know shiat about climbing but I would assume he couldn't have brought a dog to that point to begin with if it was any challenge to descend.
 
2012-08-18 06:38:28 PM

BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?


Since never.


But they've been equivalent since 543 BCish, give or take some decades.
 
2012-08-18 06:38:30 PM

BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.


thus why he wasn't charged with "cruelty to people"
 
2012-08-18 06:39:45 PM
There aren't many 14ers besides Mt. Evans that you should even think of bringing a dog to - Mt. Sherman is probably easy enough, but you don't see dogs along the Longs Peak trail for example. There's a reason that bighorn and mountain goats live up there and canines don't - they're not anatomically suited to that terrain with car-sized boulders.

I ran into a guy along the Mt. Blanca trail that got separated from his dog way up by the alpine lakes and hadn't seen it in two days - I don't know if he ever found the dog but I wouldn't be surprised if something found his pooch and ate it or the dog got altitude sickness and died.
 
2012-08-18 06:41:46 PM
Anyone else been on the 14ers.com forum reading up on this?
http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=36893
 
2012-08-18 06:45:38 PM

RoyBatty: How hard of a climb is it?

How much would a helicopter rescue have cost (would a civilian helicopter be allowed to land up there?)


Getting up to Bierstadt itself takes time but isn't bad. Sawtooth Ridge, though, where the dog was actually abandoned, is a rocky traverse between Mt. Bierstadt and Mt. Evans. It's a definite scramble to get across, but one you don't need ropes for. I'd guess that the biggest limitation in being able to rescue the dog by foot was speed, as you want to beat the afternoon mountain weather. You know, the weather the owner didn't anticipate.

\The closest you could land a helicopter would only save you a few hours of hiking.
 
2012-08-18 06:47:06 PM

The Martian Manhandler: Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.

The cat you lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes.


farm2.staticflickr.com

He frowns on your shenanigans.
 
2012-08-18 06:48:48 PM

doglover: BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

Since never.


But they've been equivalent since 543 BCish, give or take some decades.


No, no they haven't. You need to stop now. Your love of dogs is noted and respected but, you are starting to act like a militant vegan/bike rider/ etc. Moderation.
 
2012-08-18 06:50:59 PM

RoyBatty: How hard of a climb is it?

How much would a helicopter rescue have cost (would a civilian helicopter be allowed to land up there?)


I took curious interest in this case in the prior thread.

It's apparently pretty hard. It's at 12,500 ft on a talus field (large jagged rocks) which are hard to traverse, and there are drops where you'd have to lower on ropes. The sheriff and Search And Rescue said they only rescue people, not dogs. The guy who brought her up there was a novice, didn't know what he was getting into, and made some hella bad decisions. Without booties, the dog's pads got cut and she refused to walk. He allegedly had a younger person with him and they tried to get her down with them, they tried to lower her on ropes with them but it didn't work and they were only bumping and dragging her down the slope. The weather got worse and they left her, with the interest of the life of his (alleged) younger hiker being a higher priority. He said he tried to call the sheriff for a rescue, that was the plan, but was told they don't DO that, and he was all blistered up and couldn't go up himself (he could have brought her food/water but could not have carried her down).

In fact the people who first found and reported finding her up there also left her, because it was impossible to carry her, but they gave her water at least. They talked on the forum for awhile on how to do this. They started with a plan of 4-6 people and a stretcher, but decided it wouldn't work, a stretcher is impractical on rough, sloping terrain.

They settled on a specific type of backpack that could handle the volume and stay open the right way on top, and traded off, and it was actually pretty easy with that plan. In fact, by the descriptions, once they got some food/water in her and put BOOTIES on her feet, they couldn't keep her in the pack. She was squirming too much and could walk ok with booties on her cut feet. You'd have to know what booties were and where to get some.

The darndest thing is it's apparent he loved her and missed her and was greatly pained by having to leave her. But in the end he didn't manage to DO anything. Terrible lapse in problem-solving, and I'm struggling to characterize the problem. I think he identified the sheriff and SAR as the highest authority and if THEY couldn't/wouldn't do it, it couldn't be done. In an emergency you dial 911 and wait, right? Well he called the sheriff or whoever and didn't get anywhere and then kinda froze up.

He didn't think to post notices at the trailhead that he'd lost a dog- I don't think he had connections to the hiking community, given that he didn't know how difficult the trail was and that dogs require booties. Apparently the sheriff's office didn't advise him to do this either. Or that there's a forum of people who hike these trails and are familiar with it. I think he perceived it as a far more remote and hopeless Mount Doom than it really was.

I could compare it to someone agonizing over a friend bleeding to death in the woods who doesn't think to stop agonizing and try to stop the bleeding, that sort of thing is not only forgivable, most wouldn't even think to blame the survivor. But it's not all that applicable because he had DAYS at home to come up with a solution. IIRC he said he wasn't sure if she survived the first night, and after 3 days decided she must be gone and it'd be pointless to try.

He posted on the 14er forum and, like I say, there's every indication he did love her, was remorseful, guilty and was hella ashamed over it. I think that was PART of why he froze up, strangely enough, that he was so ashamed he couldn't go to the media and say his dog was up there and might be dead because he left her there. It's highly unusual that he opened up on the forum and pleaded forgiveness (he did not directly demand his dog back, BTW).

Well also a general lack of critical thinking skills. That's clear because he apparently went on this highly difficult trail without knowing much about hiking. He didn't do research. He didn't know dogs need booties, or that hikers hang out together. They said she appeared to have been overweight before (which vicariously may have saved her), and her nails were a bit long (they wear down naturally when walked on pavement). She was not walked often.

If you thought of this in terms of "can I call my brother and we could do this?" no, you couldn't get her back down even if she was still alive and you found her. Well, you could at least bring her water, you know. But you'd have to abandon her all over again, this time seeing her in even worse shape, and it would be easier to assume she was already gone. I guess that's the paradox- it would be so painful to go looking for her and leaving her AGAIN, BECAUSE he cared for her, that maybe that's why he was averse to going up again to try.

I can say it's not actually a situation many pet owners are presented with. It's not similar to those who neglect dogs because they don't give a shiat, this was an exceptionally difficult situation. It's hard to guess how the general population of pet owners might deal with it. In hindsight, you can say a LOT of things about what he should have done. He's very aware now of the things he could have done in hindsight too.
 
2012-08-18 06:55:31 PM

UncleStumpy: The guy Obviously made a mistake taking the dog up there. If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that


1) He shouldn't have been on that scramble with a dog, period. It's a long traverse across rocks that's not appropriate for dogs.

2) He should not have been on that scramble with his dog with bare paws. If you've ever hiked with an indoor dog, it is totally anticipatable that they will blister their feet scrambling on rocks for any length of time.

3) He either started too late or went up Bierstadt too slowly to continue across the traverse. As a general rule, if you don't summit by noon, you should start thinking about turning back around.

4) He should have been up there trying to get the dog down the next decent day. Even if he has no friends in the world willing to help, in good weather, the trail up Bierstadt is swarming with people who could be recruited. You know, like that one who photographed the dog.

He failed the dog, then gave up on her.
 
2012-08-18 06:58:20 PM

BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.


you live on this planet where human beings do horrible unspeakable acts to each other every second of every day. rape, robbery, murder, torture, kiddie diddling, blah blah blah. you keep on telling yourself human beings are valuable.

i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

/tell your mom and dad i said hi.
 
2012-08-18 06:59:28 PM

doglover: relcec: family life

Dogs ARE family. It's as simple as that.

If you can take your kid up the mountain, you can get your kid down.

If you can take your dog up the mountain, you can get your dog down.

If you can't rescue your own family, you aren't worthy of having said family and you should face charges for placing them in danger.

If he had gone straight to facebook or the local news with "Help, my dog's stuck on a mountain." This would be the story of one man's heroic effort to save his beloved pet. As it is, it's the story of a jackass who thinks living creatures are somehow mobile property. It's only a small step mental to transfer that kind of sick emotional lack to humans. The dude SHOULD face charges at the VERY least.


Well, the paradox is, if you lost a person up there, any idiot with no problem-solving skillz could solve the situation by calling 911. You don't need to be physically capable, or have survival training, or own a helicopter. SAR will come out and do it for you, probably for free. That's EASY. We really don't know how far an average joe would go to save another person and how their competency would fare, it doesn't come up. SAR does the job for you.

Losing a dog is surprisingly a difficult problem, because SAR may not help, and a person could be left on their own to try to solve it. I'm just saying you can't compare it to losing a family member up there, THAT would be far easier to respond to.
 
2012-08-18 06:59:45 PM
Charges and hopefully a good thrashing.
 
2012-08-18 07:00:31 PM

uofacats2004: I can't possibly imagine not doing everything possible in my power to save my dog


People like you confuse me.

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. I read about these jerks that abuse dogs (kick them, starve them, make them fight...) and it sickens me.

But it's a dog. It's not a human. Would I risk x to save my dog? You betcha. Does x = my life? No.

I'd do a lot to save an animal but, in the end, it's just a farking dog.
 
2012-08-18 07:02:58 PM
Oznog:

thanks for the info. The owner is definitely lacking in decision making and research skills but not necessarily abusive.

My dog has been on a slope of a 14'er this summer. We drove up to about 10,000 feet and hiked a beautiful but fairly easy trail. No hard scrabble. He gets walked 3 times a day, most days, and his pads are like thick leather.

I like being alive and I like my dog being alive, so I prefer not to get into nasty situations like hiking to the top of a dangerous 14'er. but that's just me.
 
2012-08-18 07:03:13 PM

consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.



You realize people feel differently about this subject...it's no great moral failing either way.
 
2012-08-18 07:07:56 PM

little big man: There aren't many 14ers besides Mt. Evans that you should even think of bringing a dog to - Mt. Sherman is probably easy enough, but you don't see dogs along the Longs Peak trail for example. There's a reason that bighorn and mountain goats live up there and canines don't - they're not anatomically suited to that terrain with car-sized boulders.


My dog and I have done Bierstadt and Quandry. I wouldn't take him on anything harder than Quandry.

I ran into a guy along the Mt. Blanca trail that got separated from his dog way up by the alpine lakes and hadn't seen it in two days - I don't know if he ever found the dog but I wouldn't be surprised if something found his pooch and ate it or the dog got altitude sickness and died.

Mountain lion would be my guess. Not the first place I would choose to see if my dog followed off leash.

\I hear those rangers write big tickets for leash violations, too.
 
2012-08-18 07:09:20 PM

consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.


Plot twist - the child you saved was baby Adolf.
 
2012-08-18 07:11:30 PM

Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.


Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.
 
2012-08-18 07:12:28 PM

you are a puppet: consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.

Plot twist - the child you saved was baby Adolf.


and adolf hitler was a noted animal rights activist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
 
2012-08-18 07:12:56 PM

relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Um, for taking the dog up there in the first place, having him unleashed/not under control during a snow storm?

Sort of like if you did the same thing with your kid. Only maybe they'd send out a few resources to rescue the kid (not in California anymore, I'm guessing, but maybe on federal land - oh wait, unless the Ryan budget plan passes).

people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment? I know you're a certified f*cking idiot, but see if you can reevaluate this.


Yes, if they are not able to foresee and prevent their dogs from falling, breaking bones and needing rescue. Just like kids.

Know your kid, know your dog, know your limits. Do not endanger kids or dogs.
 
2012-08-18 07:13:03 PM

KrispyKritter:
you live on this planet where human beings do horrible unspeakable acts to each other every second of every day. rape, robbery, murder, torture, kiddie diddling, blah blah blah. .


You forgot arson. And one more rape.
 
2012-08-18 07:13:16 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.

Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.


Well sure. It's just common sense that everyone should be able to do everything that anyone else can do.
 
2012-08-18 07:13:45 PM

UncleStumpy: The guy Obviously made a mistake taking the dog up there. If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that


I'm okay with that too.
 
2012-08-18 07:14:28 PM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.

Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Well sure. It's just common sense that everyone should be able to do everything that anyone else can do.


It is his dog - he took it up there, he should stay until it gets back down

Or relinquish the dog to people better able to care for it.
 
2012-08-18 07:14:40 PM

Oznog: RoyBatty: How hard of a climb is it?

How much would a helicopter rescue have cost (would a civilian helicopter be allowed to land up there?)

I took curious interest in this case in the prior thread.

It's apparently pretty hard. It's at 12,500 ft on a talus field (large jagged rocks) which are hard to traverse, and there are drops where you'd have to lower on ropes. The sheriff and Search And Rescue said they only rescue people, not dogs. The guy who brought her up there was a novice, didn't know what he was getting into, and made some hella bad decisions. Without booties, the dog's pads got cut and she refused to walk. He allegedly had a younger person with him and they tried to get her down with them, they tried to lower her on ropes with them but it didn't work and they were only bumping and dragging her down the slope. The weather got worse and they left her, with the interest of the life of his (alleged) younger hiker being a higher priority. He said he tried to call the sheriff for a rescue, that was the plan, but was told they don't DO that, and he was all blistered up and couldn't go up himself (he could have brought her food/water but could not have carried her down).

In fact the people who first found and reported finding her up there also left her, because it was impossible to carry her, but they gave her water at least. They talked on the forum for awhile on how to do this. They started with a plan of 4-6 people and a stretcher, but decided it wouldn't work, a stretcher is impractical on rough, sloping terrain.

They settled on a specific type of backpack that could handle the volume and stay open the right way on top, and traded off, and it was actually pretty easy with that plan. In fact, by the descriptions, once they got some food/water in her and put BOOTIES on her feet, they couldn't keep her in the pack. She was squirming too much and could walk ok with booties on her cut feet. You'd have to know what booties were and where to get s ...


You make some excellent points. I might bite back my anger at the man, and not consider him a complete idiot. However, the very points that make him a bit sympathetic also mean, to me, that he should never, ever, ever own or be responsible for another living thing.

He's had his chance. I promise not to throw rocks at his head should I see it, so long as he never takes another living creature under his "care", because obviously, he is not capable of proper decision making to do so.
 
2012-08-18 07:20:31 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: UncleStumpy: The guy Obviously made a mistake taking the dog up there. If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that

1) He shouldn't have been on that scramble with a dog, period. It's a long traverse across rocks that's not appropriate for dogs.

2) He should not have been on that scramble with his dog with bare paws. If you've ever hiked with an indoor dog, it is totally anticipatable that they will blister their feet scrambling on rocks for any length of time.

3) He either started too late or went up Bierstadt too slowly to continue across the traverse. As a general rule, if you don't summit by noon, you should start thinking about turning back around.

4) He should have been up there trying to get the dog down the next decent day. Even if he has no friends in the world willing to help, in good weather, the trail up Bierstadt is swarming with people who could be recruited. You know, like that one who photographed the dog.

He failed the dog, then gave up on her.


THIS.
 
2012-08-18 07:21:14 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.

Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.


a fair standard. semi professional climbers who have been climbed that mountain many times were able to gather a team and perform a rescue, so everyone is charged with being able to perform in that manner.
similarly if a surgeon could have intervened in a situation where you failed or simply failed to act, then we should impute on you constructive knowledge of the professional who trained for 12 years to learn his craft and find you wanting for your lack of positive results.
you folks are nothing if not reasonable.
 
2012-08-18 07:28:06 PM
the dog is more loyal then most humans, fark this guy.
 
2012-08-18 07:30:36 PM

relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.

Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

a fair standard. semi professional climbers who have been climbed that mountain many times were able to gather a team and perform a rescue, so everyone is charged with being able to perform in that manner.
similarly if a surgeon could have intervened in a situation where you failed or simply failed to act, then we should impute on you constructive knowledge of the professional who trained for 12 years to learn his craft and find you wanting for your lack of positive results.
you folks are nothing if not reasonable.


Hmmm. If the man required special professional help to do something, perhaps he ought not to have done it in the first place?

I suppose you routinely do surgery on yourself and when it goes awry, you then employ a real surgeon (or try to - some of them might not take you as a patient).

It's always good to go ahead and do things like mountain climb, dive, fly an airplane or parasail when you don't know what you're doing, and then hope that someone who does know will help you out.

Just hire a nanny from the get-go, if your judgment calls for this kind of thing. And no, I don't have sympathy for humans who put themselves in harm's way and then require professional services to help them - unless they frikken pay for it. At market rates.

Big believer in self-rescue here.
 
2012-08-18 07:31:02 PM

Oznog: I can say it's not actually a situation many pet owners are presented with. It's not similar to those who neglect dogs because they don't give a shiat, this was an exceptionally difficult situation. It's hard to guess how the general population of pet owners might deal with it. In hindsight, you can say a LOT of things about what he should have done. He's very aware now of the things he could have done in hindsight too.


I just read the first 20 pages and the last two pages of the 14ers thread. And on the page you linked to is the claim from someone claiming to be his boss that she sent him out of town.

I dunno. I think the charges are yet another example of political/career motivated prosecution.

Anyway, the thread on 14ers is interesting in how it develops. I am glad everyone is safe and okay.
 
2012-08-18 07:32:33 PM

consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.


Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.
 
2012-08-18 07:33:41 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.


You have his name. I'm guessing you could be just the ITG to show him what FARK thinks of him.
 
2012-08-18 07:35:59 PM
No, I don't do freebies. I only ramble on the keyboard when I feel like it.

He sounds as if he's contrite. That's a start. More than I can say for a lot of people.
 
2012-08-18 07:40:48 PM

KrispyKritter: BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.

you live on this planet where human beings do horrible unspeakable acts to each other every second of every day. rape, robbery, murder, torture, kiddie diddling, blah blah blah. you keep on telling yourself human beings are valuable.

i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

/tell your mom and dad i said hi.


Y'know, if you're going to equate animals with humans, animals do most of those things too. Only we excuse it because, you know, they're just animals.
 
2012-08-18 07:41:08 PM

bingethinker: I wish he'd been so concerned about his dog when he decided to take it up the mountain in the first place.

/it's not a wolf, it's a f**kin' house pet, douchebag


Therein lies the animal cruelty charge.
 
2012-08-18 07:41:12 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.

Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.



so poor people should stay indoors lest they need rescuing.
another interesting reflection.
frankly, your intellect is staggering, and we really need to get you cracking on cold fusion.
 
2012-08-18 07:44:40 PM

relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.

Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.


so poor people should stay indoors lest they need rescuing.
another interesting reflection.
frankly, your intellect is staggering, and we really need to get you cracking on cold fusion.


People should be reasonable, but I guess that's too much to ask.

Especially when it comes to caring for another living being.

If you think this is an intellectual issue, rather than an ethical and emotional one, you must consider a lot of ordinary problems to be beyond most people's abilities to solve. They're not.

Common sense as a precept also comes to mind, but I'm sure that people who want to take their dogs to 12,500 feet, hiking, will think it's a tough intellectual problem instead.
 
2012-08-18 07:48:11 PM

doglover: relcec: people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment?

It's the difference between letting your kid ride a bike and letting your kid ride a bike without a helmet.

People who take dogs up mountains shouldn't be charged. People who LEAVE dogs on mountains should be keel hauled.... in a dry dock.


Troll or didn't read the article?

Considering this is Fark I'd have to say both...
 
2012-08-18 07:48:47 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.

Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.


so poor people should stay indoors lest they need rescuing.
another interesting reflection.
frankly, your intellect is staggering, and we really need to get you cracking on cold fusion.

People should be reasonable, but I guess that's too much to ask.

Especially when it comes to caring for another living being.

If you think this is an intellectual issue, rather than an ethical and emotional one, you must consider a lot of ordinary problems to be beyond most people's abilities to solve. They're not.

Common sense as a precept also comes to mind, but I'm sure that people who want to take their dogs to 12,500 feet, hiking, will think it's a tough intellectual problem instead.


ahhhhh, just stfu already you god damn moron.
 
2012-08-18 07:50:51 PM

doglover: relcec: people who take dogs on mountain hikes should be charged with animal endangerment?

It's the difference between letting your kid ride a bike and letting your kid ride a bike without a helmet.

People who take dogs up mountains shouldn't be charged. People who LEAVE dogs on mountains should be keel hauled.... in a dry dock.


People who take dogs anywhere and walk them over sharp rocks until their paws are too mangled to walk any further are guilty of animal cruelty. The rest is just enhancement of the charge.
 
2012-08-18 08:04:48 PM
It wasn't so much the leaving it behind, well, yeah sort of. The real problem lies in him not going back to even bring it food and water and after a few days saying "I guess it's dead". If the people who rescued it did it through internet forums and this guy uses those same forums, he could have scrambled the rescue. There's no excuse for him not going back to at least know for certain. I'm glad the asshole is being charged and he should NEVER get that dog back.
 
2012-08-18 08:05:56 PM
So, I gather that there are a lot of PETA and ALF members on fark.
 
2012-08-18 08:10:57 PM
What a

F
A
G
 
2012-08-18 08:11:32 PM

relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: relcec: Atypical Person Reading Fark: consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.

Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.


so poor people should stay indoors lest they need rescuing.
another interesting reflection.
frankly, your intellect is staggering, and we really need to get you cracking on cold fusion.

People should be reasonable, but I guess that's too much to ask.

Especially when it comes to caring for another living being.

If you think this is an intellectual issue, rather than an ethical and emotional one, you must consider a lot of ordinary problems to be beyond most people's abilities to solve. They're not.

Common sense as a precept also comes to mind, but I'm sure that people who want to take their dogs to 12,500 feet, hiking, will think it's a tough intellectual problem instead.

ahhhhh, just stfu already you god damn moron.


Neener, neener. You're the one who needs a time out. You're sputtering.
 
2012-08-18 08:13:41 PM

consider this: BarkingUnicorn: People who take dogs anywhere and walk them over sharp rocks until their paws are too mangled to walk any further are guilty of animal cruelty. The rest is just enhancement of the charge.

You might want to check out the forum referenced in the article. There's a whole section that covers bringing pets on climbing trips and it's not all that uncommon to do.

Oh and by the way, they guy tried carrying his dog down but couldn't and had to leave it because a snowstorm was rolling in.


It's not completely uncommon, but it isn't common to let them bloody their paws or to delay alternate route finding if the dog's going to end up with its pads shredded off.

That's torturing a dog - and why not just go back down at that point? Because humans get these goals in their head and literally don't care what happens until they get where they want to be. It's fine to be competitive - with your own self, but don't drag the kids or the dogs along.
 
2012-08-18 08:18:32 PM
I think it's dumb to take a dog up a 14er. I've been up maybe a dozen and generally, there's no water and too many things for a dog to chase.

I saw several dogs on my 13er today, and didn't see anyone carrying water for them. Just about tripped over one because she would get out of my way on the run down.

/some people are stupid.
 
2012-08-18 08:24:16 PM

you are a puppet: consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.

Plot twist - the child you saved was baby Adolf.


A perfect chance to settle the nature/vrs nurture debate.
 
2012-08-18 08:36:34 PM

consider this: and most of all my Missy


So he was

theneave.com
 
2012-08-18 08:43:16 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Charges and hopefully a good thrashing.


It will be guilty, $150 fine plus costs, and six months probation. Maybe barred from owning pets for a while, unless he cries well for the judge. This was negligence, not malice.
 
2012-08-18 08:45:39 PM
I would risk my life for my dog. We're a team. He may not have a well developed neocortex, but he's a person in many ways.

He's not a pet. He's a friend.

That said, if it comes down to my dog or a human, the human wins 75% of the time.
 
2012-08-18 08:50:28 PM

Abox: The Martian Manhandler: Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.

The cat you lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes.

[farm2.staticflickr.com image 541x640]

He frowns on your shenanigans.


Hey, that cat looks like Hitler! Someone should make a hilarious website about him.
 
2012-08-18 09:09:05 PM

consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: It's not completely uncommon, but it isn't common to let them bloody their paws or to delay alternate route finding if the dog's going to end up with its pads shredded off.

So you were following behind them that day? Must be since you seem to know so much about what happened up there.


No, but I do hike at altitude, and I do read.
 
2012-08-18 09:10:06 PM
mauricecano: Good and hopefully this will prevent him from being able to try and claim the dog. He shouldn't feel bad since he wrote the dog off as dead anyways once he left the mountain and doesn't deserve a reunion.

gingerjet: And what info are you using to come to that conclusion? He contacted the authorities and a search and rescue group and was told to pound sand. I think there is a lot of fail here but "writing the dog off" is a bit of a stretch based on the info provided.


gingerjet: There's no evidence for your claim. In fact, in the original article, Ortolani says, "I left her there so that my friend and I could get down safely with intentions of calling S & R when we were off of the mountian", written by someone identifying himself as Ortolani. If the poster is in fact Ortolani, the wording indicates he never got around to calling S&R. Only that he had the intention and something intervened in the interim. Like a total lack of concern.

All these claims of superhuman effort on Ortolani's part to get the dog down are unsubstantiated by any evidence. It seems with every retelling of the story, Ortolani's efforts become yet more Herculean.

The evidence shows he left her to die. The evidence suggests he made absolutely no effort to try to rescue her. The evidence shows that non-owners came across the dying beast eight days later, and quickly and successfully organized a rescue.

What's really necessary in this case to arrive at a firm conclusion is a deposition from Ortolani, and some phone records. But the evidence so far is not looking good for Ortolani.
 
2012-08-18 09:12:47 PM

gadian: It wasn't so much the leaving it behind, well, yeah sort of. The real problem lies in him not going back to even bring it food and water and after a few days saying "I guess it's dead". If the people who rescued it did it through internet forums and this guy uses those same forums, he could have scrambled the rescue. There's no excuse for him not going back to at least know for certain. I'm glad the asshole is being charged and he should NEVER get that dog back.


I'm gonna blame the media.

The typical drama shows someone dying within seconds, the characters have to accept it and move on. Pretty much once they're unable to move, there's either a motivational speech followed by a second wind where they're fine, or they die within seconds of falling. The idea that a crisis can go on for hours or days and there are many ways to react isn't really depicted.

OK, yeah, I'm trolling. Only kinda, though. I've long noticed that movies are rather ridiculous in that people either die immediately or maybe are shot but will be fine once the bullet's out, they only need a shoulder to help them walk. There's no middle ground. Of course it's fiction and there's no law saying it has to be appropriately instructive on what could really happen. Regrettably, some people do get too many ideas of how things "are" from movies and how they should react.
 
2012-08-18 09:16:05 PM

consider this: So how about the other hikers who found the dog and then left it, do they get charged too?


I'm pretty sure laws state that a person is somehow more liable for their own pets and children. 

/wait, I see some kids riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street, I'll be back after I rescue them
 
2012-08-18 09:19:24 PM

relcec: you folks are nothing if not reasonable.


welcometofark.jpg?
 
2012-08-18 09:26:50 PM
assets.nydailynews.com

Awww.....

...that's the owner, who ended up abandoning her up there (taken prior to what happened).

Again, note he experienced circumstances which were fantastically problematic for a novice hiker. Just saying, it's not a simple situation.  I don't think there's any ONE way to sum it up.
 
2012-08-18 09:44:36 PM

Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane.

 

blog.nomadier.com
 
2012-08-18 09:46:04 PM

Oznog: I don't think there's any ONE way to sum it up.


8 days without food, water, or heading back up to look for her.

I think it's pretty obvious how much she REALLY meant to him.

Rent a movie about Hachiko and get back to me with your opinion on 8 days. Dude gave up on his dog, whom he stranded in the first place, because the sheriff's office wouldn't help. His back wasn't broken. His legs still worked. The mountain sure as hell didn't go anywhere. No excuse for THAT.
 
2012-08-18 09:55:06 PM

BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.


No, they are a hell of a lot kinder.
 
2012-08-18 09:56:41 PM
I'd have crawled up that motherfarking mountain to save any of my dogs.
 
2012-08-18 10:02:18 PM
He completely failed. She would be dead without the compassion of other people.
 
2012-08-18 10:16:46 PM

consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.


So you'd commit genocide on innocent animals to save another innocent animal?

Not sure if trolling or stupid.
 
2012-08-18 11:09:15 PM

cryinoutloud: Abox: Yeah I don't get this guy. If someone told me the cat I lost five years ago was spotted in the Andes I'd be on the next plane. 

[blog.nomadier.com image 400x570]


LOL Eight Below was "based on a true story" pretty loosely.

A 1958 Japanese Antarctic expedition had expected to return to base in a short time, but weather went bad. They abandoned 15 sled dogs there, and AFAIK saw little interest in trying to rescue them, which was wildly impractical. They were chattel, not companions, and written off.

One year later the next expedition came and found 2 dogs still alive. 7 chained up and dead, 8 had broken free of their chains, of which two greeted them alive and no sign of the other 6. The two survivors were hailed as heroes. No one's sure what they did to survive, a dog might live a month in those conditions.
 
2012-08-18 11:09:31 PM

consider this: This comes off as a witch hunt to me. Various other hikers who came across the dog were forced to continue on their way without rescuing it because it couldn't walk and was too heavy to carry. The owner is claiming on the forum that he did call 911 to report it and they refused to send help. He was unable to make other climbs to find the dog because of injuries he had sustained.

To top it off, the prosecutor of the case posted in the same thread on the forum, obviously attention whoring and trying to be the hero by announcing that he was filing charges.


This.

It's clear he cares about the dog a great deal.

He's dangerously ignorant on going into the back country (in general, not just with his dog), but then again, there's a sign at our ranger station that says "We don't promise you'll return" so it's obviously a common problem.

This is a situation where the person needs to be educated. Not hung.
 
2012-08-18 11:18:00 PM

consider this: Martin Silenus: So you'd commit genocide on innocent animals to save another innocent animal?

Not sure if trolling or stupid.

You're obviously just a moron with no morals.


Why is one human worth sacrificing two entire species? What morals could possibly put less emphasis on the existence of an entire species than on one insignificant life? Explain that with logic other than "I don't give a shiat about non-humans."

Humanity as a whole would be unaffected by the loss of one child. We're in a dominant position on the planet and are in no danger of being overthrown. Hell, our population growth is unsustainable as it is, so the loss of that one child is more likely to be beneficial than detrimental. All the child would be likely to do is grow up to compete with the rest of us for resources. Meanwhile "all dogs and cats" includes service animals, pets, working dogs, etc. who provide valuable services for mankind. Humanity as a whole would be worse off without dogs in particular.

So how exactly did you arrive at your conclusion that "one human child" is greater than "all dogs and cats ever?"
 
2012-08-18 11:33:33 PM

DrExplosion: Humanity as a whole would be worse off without dogs in particular.


Only because humanity tends to not help it's weaker members and just be to fat to chase criminals.
 
2012-08-18 11:35:49 PM

consider this: Because humans are infinitely more important than a farking dog.


You're certainly not worth nearly as much as even one of them yappy dogs.
 
2012-08-18 11:51:19 PM

BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.


You're right. They are better than most people.
 
2012-08-18 11:58:44 PM

consider this: DrExplosion: Why is one human worth sacrificing two entire species? What morals could possibly put less emphasis on the existence of an entire species than on one insignificant life? Explain that with logic other than "I don't give a shiat about non-humans."

Because humans are infinitely more important than a farking dog.


Important to what purpose?

Regardless, you're moving the goalposts. "Humans" are of course more important than a dog, but you were saying earlier that one larval human is worth less than all dogs and all cats. I fail to see how one could reach this conclusion unless they thought every non-human creature to be completely unworthy of consideration.
 
2012-08-19 12:07:24 AM

DrExplosion: consider this: Martin Silenus: So you'd commit genocide on innocent animals to save another innocent animal?

Humanity as a whole would be worse off without dogs in particular.



Humanity would more than likely not exist without dogs. There's a reason we domesticated them all those many years ago. It's so funny to watch people write "they're just a farking dog" when they wouldn't be here without them.
 
2012-08-19 12:22:58 AM

soupbone: DrExplosion: consider this: Martin Silenus: So you'd commit genocide on innocent animals to save another innocent animal?

Humanity as a whole would be worse off without dogs in particular.


Humanity would more than likely not exist without dogs. There's a reason we domesticated them all those many years ago. It's so funny to watch people write "they're just a farking dog" when they wouldn't be here without them.



I wasn't even talking about that, though it's undeniably true. I was referring to the impact it would have on modern humanity if dogs just suddenly disappeared. Blind people would be farked, crazy people who rely on them for companionship would snap and go on killing sprees, anyone trapped under earthquake rubble would just have to sit there and die, the list goes on. Most of us don't rely on dogs for hunting or protection anymore, but they're still known as "man's best friend" for a reason.

And then there's consider this, who seems to think that one child has more to offer than every dog (and cat) that exists or ever will exist.
 
2012-08-19 12:37:00 AM

consider this: DrExplosion: And then there's consider this, who seems to think that one child has more to offer than every dog (and cat) that exists or ever will exist.

Yes I do. Dogs and cats are pets, and in some parts of the world, dinner. Anybody who says that they would save a pet before a human is seriously twisted in the head.


This is nothing more than your opinions, but it is an undeniable fact that the human race would not be here and could not continue progressing forward without our animal companions.
 
2012-08-19 12:38:08 AM

Acharne: FTA:

With the dog unable to walk, Ortalani says he tried to carry the dog off the mountain but was unable. He says that attempts to lower the dog with ropes were injuring the dog even more, and with a storm approaching, he was forced to leave the dog behind.

Once down the mountain, Ortalani says he contacted a search-and-rescue group and the sheriff's department but was told it was too risky to send a rescue crew up for the dog.
In his posting on 14ers.com the Ortalani says, "I am at a complete loss of words. My gratitude for the people involved in this is without measure."

He went on to say, "I humbly beg the forgiveness of the community and most of all my Missy Girl. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart."

Read this please before you get all preachy and indigent.


Are you kidding me? The guy is still an idiot. How did the situation develop in the first place?

Oh look! My dog's feet are getting damaged. Hey, but lets keep on going up this mountain without thinking about the consequences.

Then later... oh well. Guess I won't go back up there myself and get the dog. I'll just let it starve up there.

What an asshat.
 
2012-08-19 12:38:20 AM

consider this: soupbone: Humanity would more than likely not exist without dogs. There's a reason we domesticated them all those many years ago. It's so funny to watch people write "they're just a farking dog" when they wouldn't be here without them.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. While dogs have certainly had their place helping humans through the centuries, to suggest that they're the only reason we've survived as a species is nothing short of laughable.


Your arrogance is laughable.
 
2012-08-19 12:39:46 AM

soupbone: BGates: Since when did a dogs life become more valued than a humans life?

The charges are BS. Pets are not people.

You're right. They are better than most people.


Sadly true.
 
2012-08-19 12:50:17 AM

consider this: DrExplosion: And then there's consider this, who seems to think that one child has more to offer than every dog (and cat) that exists or ever will exist.

Yes I do. Dogs and cats are pets, and in some parts of the world, dinner. Anybody who says that they would save a pet before a human is seriously twisted in the head.


Evolutionarily "modern" humans have treated other humans as property or food and revered certain animals (such as cats!) as gods. In some parts of the world, all of these things still happen.

You're going to have to provide a justification for your position besides the subjective views of the society you currently live in. Humans are not that special.
 
2012-08-19 12:53:51 AM

consider this: What are you trying to claim, that humans wouldn't exist if dogs hadn't been around to aid in hunting or security?


Ancient dog genetic engineers tinkering in their labs with their cute lemur pets to be precise.
 
2012-08-19 01:00:20 AM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: consider this: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Yet, other people managed to do what he did not. He should have been doing what they did.

Yes, he should have abandoned his kid, quit his job and hauled his inexperienced and injured ass up into those mountains until he found the dog or died trying.

Might he not have hired a team to look for his dog? No? Couldn't afford it? Then...don't go take your dog into the mountains. Something needs to teach him a lesson and I'm guessing this event may be it.


Where are these teams of professional or even semi-professional dog rescuers for wilderness mishaps? Should I google them?

/seriously, if you're not part of the "community" that participates in a hobby you won't have the first clue where to start looking for a non-standard service like this.
 
2012-08-19 01:22:11 AM

you are a puppet: consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.

Plot twist - the child you saved was baby Adolf.


That cracked me up
 
2012-08-19 01:23:03 AM
I'd say something about the owner but I ain't got a dog in this hike
 
2012-08-19 01:39:05 AM

consider this: DrExplosion: You're going to have to provide a justification for your position besides the subjective views of the society you currently live in. Humans are not that special.

I don't need to prove that humans are more important than animals. So lets see, since you don't think humans are all that special, a driver hitting and killing somebody in your family wouldn't be any different than somebody hitting and killing your dog?


Don't mind the sociopaths.

Though now you know how others feel when you're a zealot-like-poster in other various threads.(don't recall which at the moment but you've done so in the last few days).

Just sayin'
 
2012-08-19 01:49:35 AM

consider this: Martin Silenus: So you'd commit genocide on innocent animals to save another innocent animal?

Not sure if trolling or stupid.

You're obviously just a moron with no morals.


Ok then. Better start killing dogs and cats then.... what about the kid that is allergic to dogs or cats and dies from an allergic reaction? You sir are a PRIME example of why I'll take an animal over a human. The attitude that humans rule the world, and are the only thing that should live without consequence for our actions. The only reason we hairless apes are on top of the food chain, is because we have apposable (spelling?) thumbs, and the desire to pull the trigger.
 
2012-08-19 01:59:52 AM
Frankly, no. I would be equally heartbroken if one of my dogs was hit by a car, as I would if my brother got hit. I have in fact cried harder for a beloved pet that has passed than I have for a family member who has. The human race as a whole, is no more valuable to me than any other living creature. Respect ALL life.
 
2012-08-19 02:01:48 AM

DwgzRule: The only reason we hairless apes are on top of the food chain,


No, it's not thumbs, thumbs help, sure, but plenty of people get by without even limbs. It's our intellect that makes us the top, well....some of us, like the ones that can spell opposable. You can't even spell it and claim to be part of that top tier? More like free-loading parasite.
 
2012-08-19 02:02:46 AM

DwgzRule: Frankly, no. I would be equally heartbroken if one of my dogs was hit by a car, as I would if my brother got hit. I have in fact cried harder for a beloved pet that has passed than I have for a family member who has. The human race as a whole, is no more valuable to me than any other living creature. Respect ALL life.


Do you cry when you prepare your vegan meals?
 
2012-08-19 02:10:16 AM
Far from a Vegan. Loves me a good ribeye VERY rare. Not saying that I could kill it myself, and fully understand that for me to eat it, it has to die. I couldn't imagine a world at this point where animals werent mananaged, and were allowed to multiply unchecked, since we hairless apes have killed off or reduced the apex predators in the name of our own survival. At this point we humans have the world so jacked up that we HAVE to manage food animals. Death from starving to death or disease is just inhumane. Kind of like leaving a dog on a mountain with no food or water for 8 days....
 
2012-08-19 02:23:25 AM

omeganuepsilon: The human race as a whole, is no more valuable to me than any other living creature. Respect ALL life.


Flesh eating bacteria. Viruses. Rabid animals. Rats. Flies. Mosquito's. Rattlesnakes. Big farking nightmare spiders. The animals you only eat a tiny part of. Plants, to include grass you mow and flowers you pick.

ALL life.
 
2012-08-19 02:26:29 AM
In the same situation, if the authorities had told me to fark off as apparently they did to this guy, I would have raised the wrath of hell to get that dog back. I would have spammed every climbing forum on earth. I would have stood at the trailhead with signs and a bullhorn, as long as I was conscious. If not connected with the local hiking community, I would have called every hiking or sports-related shop, club, or whatever within 200 miles. Failing all that, I would have stuffed a backpack full of food and begun crawling back up that damned mountain to live or die...
 
2012-08-19 02:37:53 AM

omeganuepsilon: omeganuepsilon: The human race as a whole, is no more valuable to me than any other living creature. Respect ALL life.

Flesh eating bacteria. Viruses. Rabid animals. Rats. Flies. Mosquito's. Rattlesnakes. Big farking nightmare spiders. The animals you only eat a tiny part of. Plants, to include grass you mow and flowers you pick.

ALL life.


Yes, ALL life. Flesh eating bacteria, Viruses, including Rabies, that are one of the many ways that are natural attempts at population control for ALL life, including we hairless apes. Rats, Flies, Mosquitos, which are food for things like Rattlesnakes, Big farking nightmare spiders, (got a big ass black widow living in my garage right now...) Birds, Coyotes. The grass that I mow I respect by controlling it like we HAVE to control much of the world at this point. By mowing it, It actually allows the grass itself to come in thicker, and again makes more food for bunnies, geese, and other critters that come onto my 40 acres, most of which doesn't get mowed, or watered. and again makes more food for hawks, racoons, etc.
 
2012-08-19 02:43:31 AM

consider this: DwgzRule: Frankly, no. I would be equally heartbroken if one of my dogs was hit by a car, as I would if my brother got hit.

You're either insane or lying to make a point.


Why am I insane for believing that ALL life should be respected equally? Not just Humans? I truly feel that the human race has an overblown sense of self-importance, and you are simply proving it to me.
 
2012-08-19 02:48:38 AM
From reading all this, a case can certainly be made that he was negligent and unprepared for the endeavor. That led to a choice between two horrific alternatives. Did he call anyone or seek help when he got down? Who knows (I haven't seen confirmation of this from the sheriff's department).

Let us all keep in mind however that to rescue the dog it took 6 - 8 experienced hikers using special gear and working in shifts. I'd say this wasn't something this already over-matched novice could have handled on his own. Let us also remember that this rescue was a concerted effort by a community of people possessing specialized skills and knowledge of the area......and that a regular schmo hiker would not have necessarily known to go there for help.

Negligent, sure. I'd say panicked and in way over his head as well.
But criminal? I have a hard time with that.
 
2012-08-19 02:49:57 AM

consider this: merzbow: Failing all that, I would have stuffed a backpack full of food and begun crawling back up that damned mountain to live or die...

They left the mountain because a snowstorm was approaching. Nobody was going back up that mountain to find a dog, or for any other reason, no matter how bad ass you want to pretend you would have been.


Apparently you can't read, so I'll proceed slowly for the benefit of the challenged. In the owner's shoes, I would have left anyways to find help, unable to bring the dog back on my own. Upon not finding help, despite extreme efforts to do so over two-three days, I would have gone back UP. The dog survived what, eight days? Obviously there was no storm even moderately severe on any of those eight days, because it would have killed any exposed living creature (without food/shelter) overnight, for sure.
 
2012-08-19 02:53:50 AM

consider this: So remember everyone, the next time you see a spider, instead of stepping on it, shoot your annoying neighbor in the head, it's pretty much the same thing.


Yes, respect that flesh eating bacteria's right to life and do not hinder it so that it may live that much longer of a happy life.

Don't try and kill it, because that's just downright inhumane.

/amidoingthisrite?

DwgzRule: The grass that I mow I respect by controlling it


As the guy who left his dog up the mountain, he HAD to do it lest he be at risk. Much as you keep saying, you HAVE to control X, so that we may survive.

Respect all life my ass. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, you walking contradiction.
 
2012-08-19 02:56:52 AM

consider this: So remember everyone, the next time you see a spider, instead of stepping on it, shoot your annoying neighbor in the head, it's pretty much the same thing.


I just LOVE people who put words into my mouth for me. Shows that they are reduced to babbling. As I said above, I'm not against killing for management, food, or to defend oneself, even if one is defending against a spider, that the only reason is "cause it gives me the willies". at least that spider was killed humanely and quickly. I'm not against euthanasia both for animals, and humans, if it is done humanely. Humanely is NOT leaving a dog on a mountain for 8 days with no food or water.
 
2012-08-19 03:01:36 AM

omeganuepsilon: As the guy who left his dog up the mountain, he HAD to do it lest he be at risk. Much as you keep saying, you HAVE to control X, so that we may survive.


I'm not saying that AT THE MOMENT he didnt have to leave it for his and his friends survival. I'm saying that had he truly tried to find help, he could have had the dog back down within two days.... Not eight by some good people who heard about it third party.

*shakes head* guess I deserve seeing this kind of ignorance. I am the one who fed the Trolls.....
 
2012-08-19 03:07:46 AM

consider this: KrispyKritter: i pity you and your priorities. You're right: Pets are not people. Pets are so much better.

You're an idiot if you truly feel that way. I would kill every dog and cat on the planet to save one child.


And that one child will grow up and reject all you find good and pure in the world. - because that is what children do, and you will wonder why you did such an awful thing - killing all the innocent, useful, helpful animals.. and saving one useless, self centered, spoiled, self entitlted, egotistical little brat.
 
2012-08-19 03:11:53 AM
consider this

We get it, you are the alpha king of the apes and all other animals must bow down to your awesomeness. Beat your chest from the mountain tops to proclaim how truly unique and special of a snowflake you are. Why are you wasting your time in this thread when there are flying insects that you need to be ripping the wings off of?
 
2012-08-19 03:12:46 AM

DwgzRule: I deserve seeing this kind of ignorance.


That's new. Not valuing the dog the same as you is now ignorance?

That's farking rich. You sound just like a Westboro Baptist, they're always open if you want some like minded people to hang out with.

DwgzRule: I'm not against euthanasia both for animals, and humans, if it is done humanely. Humanely is NOT leaving a dog on a mountain for 8 days with no food or water.


So, snapping the dogs neck before leaving the mountain would have been humane. But leaving it in hopes of a rescue was abuse.

Yeah, we're the trolls...
 
2012-08-19 03:27:46 AM

omeganuepsilon: DwgzRule: I deserve seeing this kind of ignorance.

That's new. Not valuing the dog the same as you is now ignorance?

That's farking rich. You sound just like a Westboro Baptist, they're always open if you want some like minded people to hang out with.

DwgzRule: I'm not against euthanasia both for animals, and humans, if it is done humanely. Humanely is NOT leaving a dog on a mountain for 8 days with no food or water.

So, snapping the dogs neck before leaving the mountain would have been humane. But leaving it in hopes of a rescue was abuse.

Yeah, we're the trolls...


*sigh* You just dont get it do you? If a human had been injured, I woulda left them up there too to try to get help. IF SAR was contacted to try to recue the dog, they probably told him, "Sure, but you'll have to pay for it." I think that's what should happen for a human too.... "Sure, but you'll have to pay for it." Can't pay for SAR? Leave the human up there? No, do your level best to drum up help to get the human down! Same should go for the dog! Not people taking it upon themselves after seeing the story third party. Sorry, no double standard here. Would have left the human up there too.
 
2012-08-19 03:43:22 AM

DwgzRule: I think that's what should happen for a human too.... "Sure, but you'll have to pay for it."


Yeah, you're the epitome of humane treatment of others, "sure, but you'll have to pay". farking nice.
 
2012-08-19 03:52:11 AM

meds for the hypocrite: UncleStumpy: If what he says is true, and he did call the rescue people, he did all he could do.

I love animals, but I can't see myself risking my life for my pet. if that makes me a bad person in the eyes of you farkers, I'm ok with that

A big THIS


You two are disgusting. Obviously the jackass did not do "all he could do" given that strangers really rather quickly organized a rescue operation for the dog. There was clearly a lot more that could be done, and it seems it wasn't very difficult or time consuming. And it wouldn't have taken risking his life to do something besides makes a few pathetic phone calls.

There is something wrong with a person who would take the responsibility for a sentient being, live alongside it, and then so callously abandon it to die. And there is also something wrong with people who think doing so is ok.
 
2012-08-19 06:55:07 AM
I believe we now know who the 2016 GOP presidential nominee will be.
 
2012-08-19 08:29:56 AM

Lars The Canadian Viking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: But he should have been looking day after day, and he wasn't.

Looking for what? He knew the dog was there, there was just no way for him to get it down.


It was farking blistered paws, not an incurable disease. He could have taken the dog food, water and a tent for a few days then walked it out. Inst he left it to get worse and almost die out of laziness.

- owner of a 110 lb GSD who has personal experience with dogs on backpacking trails
 
2012-08-19 08:54:11 AM
For everyone saying he "tried":

A) one of the rescuers was a petite 20-something woman who carried the dog part of the way out.

B) he could have grabbed a friend/relative/neighbor to help him carry the dog and gone back up (the weather wasn't still bad if other hikers were up there to happen across the dog)

C) he could have taken the dog food and water until the blisters healed or he figured out how to get it down.

He had options. He just couldn't be bothered.
 
2012-08-19 12:22:28 PM

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Um, for taking the dog up there in the first place, having him unleashed/not under control during a snow storm?

Sort of like if you did the same thing with your kid. Only maybe they'd send out a few resources to rescue the kid (not in California anymore, I'm guessing, but maybe on federal land - oh wait, unless the Ryan budget plan passes).


Wanna point out to me the part in TFA where it says the dog was unleashed or that he went up the mountain in a snowstorm? If you can't, it means you didn't RTFA. If you didn't RTFA, no one needs to hear your shiat.

There's no mention of the leash status, and the snow storm was impending, not currently happening.

/reading comprehension
//not yours
 
2012-08-19 12:40:33 PM

Pantzkrieg: For everyone saying he "tried":

A) one of the rescuers was a petite 20-something woman who carried the dog part of the way out.

B) he could have grabbed a friend/relative/neighbor to help him carry the dog and gone back up (the weather wasn't still bad if other hikers were up there to happen across the dog)

C) he could have taken the dog food and water until the blisters healed or he figured out how to get it down.

He had options. He just couldn't be bothered.



From reading his posts and other reports, it sounds much more like incompetence than indifference.
 
2012-08-19 12:45:45 PM

consider this: So remember everyone, the next time you see a spider, instead of stepping on it, shoot your annoying neighbor in the head, it's pretty much the same thing.



To this ridiculous point, I wouldn't expect or ask anyone to put themselves in danger to save my pet but I would absolutely have put myself in the gravest danger to rescue my stranded pet. I don't see this as a universal moral obligation, I just know how I've felt about my own pets.
 
2012-08-19 01:40:56 PM
2 incompetent hikers + a dog.
Some other hiker claims he saw them and didn't offer any help.
All 3 of those people leave and a different hiker finds just a dog, also leave.

The search and rescue by hiker hobbyists was an organized event independant of SAR and the sheriff and the dog's owner. Those departments told the hikers the same thing as they told the guy in question, too dangerous to get people up there. You tell average people that and they won't go back up there, if the pro's can't do it, he certainly shouldn't. Can't villify him for that.

Obviously, the guy did not know about the website on which it was organized, only joined after he found out about it and posted. The effort and success was made by people with a strong community and strong ability. The owner had neither of those.

Apparently, during the rescue, there was a white out. Yes, those hikers are hero's, but that's because they went above and beyond and put themselves at risk. It is not guardian duty to do that for your own dog or even other people. That is why SAR teams exist. When they refuse what can one man really do, especially in a society where we're taught to follow instead of taking matters into our own hands.

Read through this thread.
Link

It may shed some light on the subject.

Having said that. I find it odd that SAR and the Sheriff had basically no comment for saying there was nothing that could be done.....and then decide to press charges. Either the guy is lying about calling them(but the hikers forum discussion corroborate his claim), or the offices really didn't heed either call. Could be an interesting case.

Also interesting, while much of the hiker community on that website was behind him, many were vilifying him as well. The prosecutor is actually a member of the forum(if the finals posts are to be believed).

I don't see negligence or abandonment or cruelty, I see only incompetence, and what is demonstrated is not incompetence at home in caring for a dog, but only for doing so on a mountain.

Give him his dog back, drop the charges, tell him to keep the dog at home. You know he's had the shiat scared out of him by now and won't make the same mistake in the future.

It is noted just a few posts into that thread that it's not uncommon for dogs and children to make some of those climbs, it's just an unfortunate incident.
 
2012-08-19 02:25:41 PM
oracleandtarotgoddess.files.wordpress.com

omeganuepsilon: 2 incompetent hikers + a dog.
Some other hiker claims he saw them and didn't offer any help.
All 3 of those people leave and a different hiker finds just a dog, also leave.

The search and rescue by hiker hobbyists was an organized event independant of SAR and the sheriff and the dog's owner. Those departments told the hikers the same thing as they told the guy in question, too dangerous to get people up there. You tell average people that and they won't go back up there, if the pro's can't do it, he certainly shouldn't. Can't villify him for that.

Obviously, the guy did not know about the website on which it was organized, only joined after he found out about it and posted. The effort and success was made by people with a strong community and strong ability. The owner had neither of those.

Apparently, during the rescue, there was a white out. Yes, those hikers are hero's, but that's because they went above and beyond and put themselves at risk. It is not guardian duty to do that for your own dog or even other people. That is why SAR teams exist. When they refuse what can one man really do, especially in a society where we're taught to follow instead of taking matters into our own hands.

Read through this thread.
Link

It may shed some light on the subject.

Having said that. I find it odd that SAR and the Sheriff had basically no comment for saying there was nothing that could be done.....and then decide to press charges. Either the guy is lying about calling them(but the hikers forum discussion corroborate his claim), or the offices really didn't heed either call. Could be an interesting case.

Also interesting, while much of the hiker community on that website was behind him, many were vilifying him as well. The prosecutor is actually a member of the forum(if the finals posts are to be believed).

I don't see negligence or abandonment or cruelty, I see only incompetence, and what is demonstrated is not incompetence at home in caring for a dog, but o ...

 
2012-08-19 03:04:48 PM

SN1987a goes boom: If only he had just strapped him to the roof and driven back home.


If only he had eaten it.
 
2012-08-19 03:48:28 PM

Abox: Pantzkrieg: For everyone saying he "tried":

A) one of the rescuers was a petite 20-something woman who carried the dog part of the way out.

B) he could have grabbed a friend/relative/neighbor to help him carry the dog and gone back up (the weather wasn't still bad if other hikers were up there to happen across the dog)

C) he could have taken the dog food and water until the blisters healed or he figured out how to get it down.

He had options. He just couldn't be bothered.


From reading his posts and other reports, it sounds much more like incompetence than indifference.


Dog pads don't blister. They get cut up, on in some cases slough off.

Well, your standard friend/relative wouldn't be able to carry the dog. NOT without appropriate carrying gear. The hikers spent awhile trying to figure this one out, and they're pros.

Actually, from the sound of it, bringing her booties to shield her injured pads, and food/water, would probably have been enough. But he didn't KNOW enough about that sort of thing.

He could have posted notices on the trailhead, and/or tried to look up hiking groups. He didn't think of that.

Like I say, what troubles me is that it's clear it's NOT that he "couldn't be bothered". He was agonized about it. It's like that agony only caused him to freeze up, instead of actually doing something to pursue a solution once calling authorities failed to go anywhere.
 
2012-08-19 04:25:41 PM

soupbone: Humanity would more than likely not exist without dogs. There's a reason we domesticated them all those many years ago. It's so funny to watch people write "they're just a farking dog" when they wouldn't be here without them.


*I* wouldn't be here without planes having existed either; it's still just a farking plane.

Tools are tools, no matter how cute and fuzzy.
 
2012-08-19 07:05:46 PM

ArcadianRefugee: soupbone: Humanity would more than likely not exist without dogs. There's a reason we domesticated them all those many years ago. It's so funny to watch people write "they're just a farking dog" when they wouldn't be here without them.

*I* wouldn't be here without planes having existed either; it's still just a farking plane.

Tools are tools, no matter how cute and fuzzy.


Do you really need the difference between inanimate objects and living creatures explained to you? Your mother did a terrible job.
 
2012-08-19 07:52:06 PM

consider this: DrExplosion: Do you really need the difference between inanimate objects and living creatures explained to you? Your mother did a terrible job.

How about you go ahead and explain how humanity would have been wiped out if not for dogs?


Maybe I'll consider your questions worth answering after you answer one goddamn question I've asked you. I know thinking is hard, but Jesus.
 
2012-08-19 11:48:27 PM
It's a freakin' dog, so what?

Why does everyone get their panties in a wad over a dog?
 
2012-08-20 12:27:30 AM
I can see where I might risk my life for my dog if there was a sudden, freak accident or incident, like the dog fall through the ice or being attacked by a wild animal. But to come down and risk my life to go back, I have to consider other responsibilities. I do not know if this guy is married, has kids, brothers, sisters, parents, employees who depend on him, but I am sure that there will be many people affected by his death and he should consider them before he risks his life for his dog.
 
2012-08-20 02:11:51 AM

obamadidcoke: It's a freakin' dog, so what?

Why does everyone get their panties in a wad over a dog?


Let me guess, you got bit when a small child.
 
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