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(Timmy Falcon)   Microsoft says it's building 3 million Surface tablets for Christmas. In other news, 2.9 million Surface tablets free to a good home in January   (timmyfalcon.com) divider line 82
    More: Dumbass, Microsoft, Windows Phone 7, MP3 player  
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1602 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Aug 2012 at 11:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-18 11:41:24 AM
It all depends on the pricing.
 
2012-08-18 11:49:46 AM

Shrugging Atlas: It all depends on the pricing.


Indeed. The tablets don't excite me in any way, but if the rumored $200 price point for RT is true it would be worth picking up to try.
 
2012-08-18 11:53:10 AM
That blog was terribly written.
 
2012-08-18 11:53:53 AM

MightyPez: Shrugging Atlas: It all depends on the pricing.

Indeed. The tablets don't excite me in any way, but if the rumored $200 price point for RT is true it would be worth picking up to try.


I see we're done here.

Anyone who thinks the tablet market has achieved equilibrium is certifiably insane. These are the same people who laughed said the iPhone would have a difficult time breaking into the well-established smartphone market dominated by RIM, Symbian, Palm and Microsoft.
 
2012-08-18 11:56:21 AM

Babwa Wawa: MightyPez: Shrugging Atlas: It all depends on the pricing.

Indeed. The tablets don't excite me in any way, but if the rumored $200 price point for RT is true it would be worth picking up to try.

I see we're done here.

Anyone who thinks the tablet market has achieved equilibrium is certifiably insane. These are the same people who laughed said the iPhone would have a difficult time breaking into the well-established smartphone market dominated by RIM, Symbian, Palm and Microsoft.


I realized my wording was bad. By "the tablets" I meant the Windows based ones. I have an iPad and am happy with it. But a $200 Windows tablet would be worth a look.
 
2012-08-18 11:57:14 AM
I'll bet you $199 that you're wrong, subby...
 
2012-08-18 12:02:03 PM

MightyPez: Babwa Wawa: MightyPez: Shrugging Atlas: It all depends on the pricing.

Indeed. The tablets don't excite me in any way, but if the rumored $200 price point for RT is true it would be worth picking up to try.

I see we're done here.

Anyone who thinks the tablet market has achieved equilibrium is certifiably insane. These are the same people who laughed said the iPhone would have a difficult time breaking into the well-established smartphone market dominated by RIM, Symbian, Palm and Microsoft.

I realized my wording was bad. By "the tablets" I meant the Windows based ones. I have an iPad and am happy with it. But a $200 Windows tablet would be worth a look.


Gotcha - seems we were and are in full agreement. This is not the PC world, either, where people have one computer per house or per person. The price point is going to be $200 soon, if not at Surface's launch. Hell, it's already there if you consider the Fire and Nook. I can see lots of (most?) people having multiple tabs - one for work and content creation, and one for entertainment and content consumption. As it is today, there is no good tablet for the former use case.

Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.
 
2012-08-18 12:05:39 PM

Babwa Wawa: MightyPez: Babwa Wawa: MightyPez: Shrugging Atlas: It all depends on the pricing.

Indeed. The tablets don't excite me in any way, but if the rumored $200 price point for RT is true it would be worth picking up to try.

I see we're done here.

Anyone who thinks the tablet market has achieved equilibrium is certifiably insane. These are the same people who laughed said the iPhone would have a difficult time breaking into the well-established smartphone market dominated by RIM, Symbian, Palm and Microsoft.

I realized my wording was bad. By "the tablets" I meant the Windows based ones. I have an iPad and am happy with it. But a $200 Windows tablet would be worth a look.

Gotcha - seems we were and are in full agreement. This is not the PC world, either, where people have one computer per house or per person. The price point is going to be $200 soon, if not at Surface's launch. Hell, it's already there if you consider the Fire and Nook. I can see lots of (most?) people having multiple tabs - one for work and content creation, and one for entertainment and content consumption. As it is today, there is no good tablet for the former use case.

Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.


It's an incredibly young market and everything is up in the air at this point. Apple got an early lead, Google fumbled (or rather, their partners fumbled) the first few attempts and is starting to find their sea legs, and Microsoft is entering it with a unique approach compared to the others. Absolutely nothing is set in stone as far as tablets go.
 
2012-08-18 12:20:19 PM

Babwa Wawa: The price point is going to be $200 soon, if not at Surface's launch. Hell, it's already there if you consider the Fire and Nook.


Totally agree. And don't forget the new Google Nexus 7, also $200. There's also the rumors of an 'ipad mini' coming out despite Apple's stance they wouldn't go that route which pretty much says it all about that price point. Amazon is supposed to be announcing a Fire 2 soon as well.
 
2012-08-18 12:20:38 PM

MightyPez: It's an incredibly young market and everything is up in the air at this point. Apple got an early lead, Google fumbled (or rather, their partners fumbled) the first few attempts and is starting to find their sea legs, and Microsoft is entering it with a unique approach compared to the others. Absolutely nothing is set in stone as far as tablets go.


I know, right? Apple entered the smartphone market 7 years after the first credible smartphones hit the streets. If someone wants to say that Microsoft isn't approaching the market correctly, or that the solution is not going to be popular, that's fine. Anyone who says Microsoft is too late to enter the tablet market loses all credibility.
 
2012-08-18 12:22:27 PM
Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.
 
2012-08-18 12:30:14 PM

bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.


That will be the point of the Microsoft store. RT tablets will need their software to be purchased through the store and Microsoft gets a cut of each purchase. If they can get a big enough to offset hardware losses it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a $200 tablet.

The pro versions on x86 will be a different story, of course.
 
2012-08-18 12:32:57 PM

MightyPez: That will be the point of the Microsoft store. RT tablets will need their software to be purchased through the store and Microsoft gets a cut of each purchase. If they can get a big enough to offset hardware losses it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a $200 tablet.


That's how Apple makes their ungodly amount of money. 30% of each iTunes store purchase goes directly into their pockets.
 
2012-08-18 12:33:32 PM
Also, this is like saying that the iPhone wouldn't work out because Apple failed with the Newton and Lisa.
 
2012-08-18 12:33:52 PM

MightyPez: bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.

That will be the point of the Microsoft store. RT tablets will need their software to be purchased through the store and Microsoft gets a cut of each purchase. If they can get a big enough cut to offset hardware losses it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a $200 tablet.

The pro versions on x86 will be a different story, of course.


FTFM
 
2012-08-18 12:34:02 PM
bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.

Eventually, sure, but look at what they did with the XBox 360. Microsoft has a pile of cash from Enterprise customers. They are redoing their entire product lineup this coming year, which means a new re-up from all their big customers and more cash in pocket. If you don't think they can float 6-18mos of tablet sales until the distribution channel smooths out and their price lowers, I think you'll find yourself mistaken. WIllingness to do that, however, has yet to be proven.
 
2012-08-18 12:42:50 PM
Subby's blog sucks.

/yippie kai yay, Timmy Falcon
 
2012-08-18 12:48:04 PM
If they're willing to sell Windows 8 for $40, they should bundle their tablets with Win 8 desktop for free. It sounds like a loss, but would encourage the universal adoption of Windows across all devices.
 
2012-08-18 12:50:53 PM

bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.


MS is currently selling 360s for $99. Why? Because they require the user to sign up for Live for 2 years.

The hardware for the Surface isn't going to be the money maker either (if the $199 rumor is true). It's the same reason every cell phone provider in the US offers $500 iphones for $200 with a 2 year contract. They aren't looking at the hardware sales for profit.

Now, will this strategy work for MS and Surface? Who know? For one we don't even know if the $200 price point is true....it's total rumor. Second, even if it turns out to be true how many people will still go for a Surface when they are already rooted in the iTunes or Google Play or Amazon marketplaces? I wouldn't even be able to venture a guess, but I think it's silly to just rule MS out entirely on this.
 
2012-08-18 12:53:58 PM

Babwa Wawa: MightyPez: I realized my wording was bad. By "the tablets" I meant the Windows based ones. I have an iPad and am happy with it. But a $200 Windows tablet would be worth a look.

Gotcha - seems we were and are in full agreement. This is not the PC world, either, where people have one computer per house or per person. The price point is going to be $200 soon, if not at Surface's launch. Hell, it's already there if you consider the Fire and Nook. I can see lots of (most?) people having multiple tabs - one for work and content creation, and one for entertainment and content consumption. As it is today, there is no good tablet for the former use case.

Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.


Put me in that pigeon-hole. I lug my clunky old circa 2004 laptop to my business every morning to have access to my email and Fark, and do real work, and back again every evening. I've played around with my kid's iPad and love the concept, but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.

For 200 bucks? Pfft...that's two hours of shop rate. Bring it.
 
2012-08-18 01:14:13 PM

StoneColdAtheist: I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.


THIS.

If I can do some code using stuff I run on my normal Windoze machines, then farking sign me up for the RT.

shiat, if they can figure out Steam on this Win8 crap, then it's game over. fark everything else. Game over, man.
 
2012-08-18 01:15:41 PM
Let's all buy one. And return it.
 
2012-08-18 01:20:48 PM
I know it doesn't jive with the internet hate machine, but the pro tablet speaks to me.

I would love an affordable tablet I can install photoshop on and still play fruit ninja on.
 
2012-08-18 01:21:14 PM

Babwa Wawa: Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.


Look back at the consumer products Microsoft has released recently and tell me they can successfully execute in this space with a straight face? Hell - they couldn't even get the announcement correct - showing an incomplete product to a bunch of reporters and not allowing anyone to touch it (meanwhile - pissing on their partners).

Yea - it will be a real winner.

/my money will be riding on Samsung and Apple.
 
2012-08-18 01:24:12 PM

StoneColdAtheist: but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.


Nor can RT. Specifically "generate PDFs" and "run my other enterprise software". You'll be wanting the full fat tablets and they'll be substantially more than their ARM powered counterparts.
 
2012-08-18 01:29:12 PM

gingerjet: Babwa Wawa: Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.

Look back at the consumer products Microsoft has released recently and tell me they can successfully execute in this space with a straight face? Hell - they couldn't even get the announcement correct - showing an incomplete product to a bunch of reporters and not allowing anyone to touch it (meanwhile - pissing on their partners).

Yea - it will be a real winner.

/my money will be riding on Samsung and Apple.


You mean consumer products like the Xbox, which over the last decade has carved out a healthy share of a video game console market previously dominated by Nintendo and Sony?
 
2012-08-18 01:29:16 PM

gingerjet: Babwa Wawa: Anybody who's writing Microsoft out of the tablet market at this point isn't thinking clearly.

Look back at the consumer products Microsoft has released recently and tell me they can successfully execute in this space with a straight face? Hell - they couldn't even get the announcement correct - showing an incomplete product to a bunch of reporters and not allowing anyone to touch it (meanwhile - pissing on their partners).

Yea - it will be a real winner.

/my money will be riding on Samsung and Apple.


If you're talking about marketing I may agree with you. If you're talking about product quality I'd say you're talking out of your ass.

/switched my iphone 4 for windows phone 7 and haven't looked back
 
2012-08-18 01:33:30 PM

Vaneshi: StoneColdAtheist: but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.

Nor can RT. Specifically "generate PDFs" and "run my other enterprise software". You'll be wanting the full fat tablets and they'll be substantially more than their ARM powered counterparts.


Depends on what they do with office. Generating a pdf is as easy as saving a word file. I don't really care about it, but I do need full-blown spreadsheet capabilities with macro support.
 
2012-08-18 01:33:33 PM

Vaneshi: StoneColdAtheist: but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.

Nor can RT. Specifically "generate PDFs" and "run my other enterprise software". You'll be wanting the full fat tablets and they'll be substantially more than their ARM powered counterparts.


Office has the ability to generate PDFs out of the box, and even if it doesn't I'm sure it'll take a week for someone to put an app in the store that creates a virtual printer that outputs PDFs.
 
2012-08-18 01:35:58 PM

gingerjet: Look back at the consumer products Microsoft has released recently and tell me they can successfully execute in this space with a straight face? Hell - they couldn't even get the announcement correct - showing an incomplete product to a bunch of reporters and not allowing anyone to touch it (meanwhile - pissing on their partners).

Yea - it will be a real winner.

/my money will be riding on Samsung and Apple


My money is on Apple and Microsoft. Samsung makes great HW, and by the specs, it's a nice tab, and pretty too. Android sucks ass. I don't even know where my android tab is anymore. F*cking thing is pretty near useless for work.
 
2012-08-18 01:37:36 PM

Shrugging Atlas: bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.

MS is currently selling 360s for $99. Why? Because they require the user to sign up for Live for 2 years.

The hardware for the Surface isn't going to be the money maker either (if the $199 rumor is true). It's the same reason every cell phone provider in the US offers $500 iphones for $200 with a 2 year contract. They aren't looking at the hardware sales for profit.

Now, will this strategy work for MS and Surface? Who know? For one we don't even know if the $200 price point is true....it's total rumor. Second, even if it turns out to be true how many people will still go for a Surface when they are already rooted in the iTunes or Google Play or Amazon marketplaces? I wouldn't even be able to venture a guess, but I think it's silly to just rule MS out entirely on this.


Exactly. They're not looking at the tablet as an end product, but a content-delivery device.
 
2012-08-18 01:44:46 PM
As long as the keyboard and battery life are good, I think Surface Pro will have very good demand from people that want to be able to run all their Windows apps on the go.

I don't really see the market for RT though, since it only runs Metro apps and aside from the no-macro version of Office, the Metro store doesn't seem to offer any advantage over iPads and Android. I think the RT version would have to be very competitive pricewise to sell well, but then that would undercut Microsoft's normal hardware partners.
 
2012-08-18 01:51:22 PM

KingPsyz: I know it doesn't jive with the internet hate machine, but the pro tablet speaks to me.

I would love an affordable tablet I can install photoshop on and still play fruit ninja on.


Same here, only with Sketchbook and Visual Studio. I'd love to have a digital doodle pad that I can also write code on.
 
2012-08-18 01:55:09 PM
Oh good, a resting pad for an iPads cover.

Seriously count me out of this tablet nonsense and give me a Raspberry pi instead.
 
2012-08-18 01:55:56 PM

skazzytl: As long as the keyboard and battery life are good, I think Surface Pro will have very good demand from people that want to be able to run all their Windows apps on the go.

I don't really see the market for RT though, since it only runs Metro apps and aside from the no-macro version of Office, the Metro store doesn't seem to offer any advantage over iPads and Android. I think the RT version would have to be very competitive pricewise to sell well, but then that would undercut Microsoft's normal hardware partners.


Give it a bit. Their new development platforms havily leverage HTML5 and JavaScript as well as some of the heaftier .NET languages. Basically, they've made it so that if you can write a web page you can build a Win8 app without much of a learning curve. That should be huge in terms of getting developers on board.
 
2012-08-18 02:02:06 PM

etherknot: Oh good, a resting pad for an iPads cover.

Seriously count me out of this tablet nonsense and give me a Raspberry pi instead.


The moment Rasberry Pi can be purchased from a reliable, known source in the US, the people who understand what it can do will buy it. As it is now, I have yet to see it being sold from someone that I trust. I really want one too!
 
2012-08-18 02:03:59 PM

Vaneshi: StoneColdAtheist: but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.

Nor can RT. Specifically "generate PDFs" and "run my other enterprise software". You'll be wanting the full fat tablets and they'll be substantially more than their ARM powered counterparts.


Hell, no matter what version of Windows 8 you use, there is no such thing as a version of Office designed for a touch only interface.

iOS, on the other hand, does offer Apple's touch optimized versions of word processing and spreadsheet apps.
 
2012-08-18 02:06:49 PM
You're blog sucks and you write at a 7th grade level. Please go kill yourself, subby.
 
2012-08-18 02:20:27 PM

xalres: KingPsyz: I know it doesn't jive with the internet hate machine, but the pro tablet speaks to me.

I would love an affordable tablet I can install photoshop on and still play fruit ninja on.

Same here, only with Sketchbook and Visual Studio. I'd love to have a digital doodle pad that I can also write code on.


This is what I've been saying the whole time. Being able to plop down on the couch and watch TV while I code on my tablet would be amazing. Also, if it can integrate with my current windows boxes then I can control my entire multimedia setup from the tablet. Not to mention, the surface pro is going to have an i5, which implies pretty good integrated graphics. I do development work for a 3-d modeling application, and the pro should be capable of supporting it, so I'm excited at the possibilities for my end users.

All microsoft has to do is convince the enterprise crowd that this is a reliable laptop substitution, and soon enough they'll have every manager and BD person with a travel heavy schedule using them. How they leverage the touch interface with their enterprise applications is a big question, but if this thing can be a travel laptop replacement for enough people, then there's a gigantic market that apple has no interest in and android has no chance at.
 
2012-08-18 02:35:47 PM

Mad_Radhu: Office has the ability to generate PDFs out of the box, and even if it doesn't I'm sure it'll take a week for someone to put an app in the store that creates a virtual printer that outputs PDFs.


Microsoft Office for Windows x86/x86_64 may well have that capability. But we aren't talking about Microsoft Office for Windows x86/x86_64 now are we? No we're not. Were talking about Microsoft Office for Windows ARM and that's a totally different kettle of fish isn't it? Yes it is. How are you going to install a print driver on it when it hasn't been blessed by Microsoft? HINT: You aren't.

And that's the problem, even a month or two before release people still haven't figured out that this is basically an iPad, it'll behave and be as locked down as an iPad. It's not Windows as you know it.
 
2012-08-18 02:39:14 PM
i102.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-18 02:52:32 PM

MightyPez: bingethinker: Those $200 tablets are being sold at a loss. Microsoft will have to charge more.

That will be the point of the Microsoft store. RT tablets will need their software to be purchased through the store and Microsoft gets a cut of each purchase. If they can get a big enough to offset hardware losses it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a $200 tablet.

The pro versions on x86 will be a different story, of course.


Aye. I don't know many people who will pick up RT. I know quite a few people, including myself, in business who are waiting on the Pro version. Assuming it comes out at a reasonable price point, we're all over it. The only thing close to what I've seen so far on it currently runs about $1600 without any additional software, and the touch functionality is sort of awful.
 
2012-08-18 02:54:52 PM

Vaneshi: Mad_Radhu: Office has the ability to generate PDFs out of the box, and even if it doesn't I'm sure it'll take a week for someone to put an app in the store that creates a virtual printer that outputs PDFs.

Microsoft Office for Windows x86/x86_64 may well have that capability. But we aren't talking about Microsoft Office for Windows x86/x86_64 now are we? No we're not. Were talking about Microsoft Office for Windows ARM and that's a totally different kettle of fish isn't it? Yes it is. How are you going to install a print driver on it when it hasn't been blessed by Microsoft? HINT: You aren't.

And that's the problem, even a month or two before release people still haven't figured out that this is basically an iPad, it'll behave and be as locked down as an iPad. It's not Windows as you know it.


It remains to be seen if that functionality will be in Office RT, but it seems odd that they would strip that out since it doesn't compromise security the way macros do. Also, PDF creation apps are available for the iPad. What leads you to think that there won't be one available for the Windows RT tablets? The point of these app stores is to keep malware and badly designed apps out and make software easy to acquire for users. Microsoft is already taking it on the chin with Windows Phone by not having the number of apps available that iPhone does, so it would be lunacy to be assholes and keep out apps just for shiats and giggles. If you are a software vendor that wants to be in the Windows RT Marketplace, and you aren't selling a blatantly harmful app, they'll probably put it in because they want to get the app count up as quickly as possible. They're just not in the position where they can be as restrictive as Apple has been with not allowing third party apps the infringe on their OS functionality.
 
2012-08-18 03:12:42 PM
This thing is rumored to be $200? For a large tablet with MS Office? Sold. Give it to me.
 
2012-08-18 03:16:36 PM
From the stories I've read there are going to be three versions. The $200 introductory one that will likely be a content consumption device ala Kindle Fire, a $500 RT version with an ARM processor then a Pro version that runs windows 8 costing the same amount as a ultrabook ($1000-2000).

I haven't checked anything in the last month or so has any of that information definitively changed?
 
2012-08-18 03:20:54 PM

Babwa Wawa: Vaneshi: StoneColdAtheist: but it can't conveniently do spreadsheets, generate pdfs or run my other enterprise software. I need a tablet that can also be a real computer, so I am a prime customer for an RT.

Nor can RT. Specifically "generate PDFs" and "run my other enterprise software". You'll be wanting the full fat tablets and they'll be substantially more than their ARM powered counterparts.

Depends on what they do with office. Generating a pdf is as easy as saving a word file. I don't really care about it, but I do need full-blown spreadsheet capabilities with macro support.


Well, it's not like I seriously consider a tablet (or my old laptop) a viable stand-in for the dedicated hardware we run our CNC with, perform CFD and FEA, etc., but it's non-negotiable that whatever new computer I buy has to run Office, OpenOffice and integrate with our quote/invoice suite of apps. I also prefer a real keyboard to type on.

My laptop has become a running joke with my partners and even occasionally here on Fark, but it wakes up every morning and runs like a champ. Even so, it needs to be retired to some innocuous light duty...not helping run my business. So, even if I end up with an upgraded model at more than $200, the RT still looks a good choice.
 
2012-08-18 03:38:35 PM

Malivon: etherknot: Oh good, a resting pad for an iPads cover.

Seriously count me out of this tablet nonsense and give me a Raspberry pi instead.

The moment Rasberry Pi can be purchased from a reliable, known source in the US, the people who understand what it can do will buy it. As it is now, I have yet to see it being sold from someone that I trust. I really want one too!


I have 6.
 
2012-08-18 03:41:54 PM
I'm not alone in being one of the businesses/government/educational institutions that is buying a buttload of Windows 7 hardware because we want no part in the W8 clusterfark.

If they don't steer away from this interface-formerly-known-as-metro bullcrap shortly, I'll go back to linux. It's been ten years, but fark you MS, pull your head out of your ass already.
 
2012-08-18 03:50:05 PM
WTF? The Timmy Falcon blog? Really? What happened? Where did the internets go?
 
2012-08-18 04:10:47 PM

Bacontastesgood: I'm not alone in being one of the businesses/government/educational institutions that is buying a buttload of Windows 7 hardware because we want no part in the W8 clusterfark.

If they don't steer away from this interface-formerly-known-as-metro bullcrap shortly, I'll go back to linux. It's been ten years, but fark you MS, pull your head out of your ass already.


Don't most Microsoft licenses let you install whatever version of the OS that you need for the User licenses you purchased? I don't think there's a need to stockpile for most enterprise hardware since you can always slap an Win 7 image on new hardware for at least the next 3 years or so. Hell up until recently, my old company was installing XP on hardware that had Win 7 stickers on them, which just about brought me to tears because Win 7 is so much better for my productivity with little things like Aero Snap.
 
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